Can a player without a World Cup be considered the GOAT?
No messi is not GOAT and Bale can't be considered GOAT until he wins the World Cup in two years.
>>69203819
No. to be GOAT means to be able to carry your average team to the greatest trophy, the greatest achievement in the greatest competition evar: the World Cup.
>>69204844
As for example for French GOAT it's Zidane, because Platini never was able to win a WC
>>69203819
Yes. The World Cup used to be the pinnacle of the sport. That's not the case anymore. The CL, year in, year out is the greatest platform for the best players in the world. It is the best barometer of how good a player is. Winning a handful of games one summer doesn't make you great.
>>69204884
Zidane never carried France, that team was staked as fuck.
Platini DID carry France in 1984, that's the perfect example of carrying a team. And was refballed by Germany in 1982
>messi is not the goat because he didn't win the last 5 minutes
>5 minutes is more important than being the best player for 8 years by age 29
Yes, some of the best players (di Stéfano, Cruyff, Messi, Platini) haven't won a WC
>>69205041
0 goals in 90+120+120+120 minutes in finals played for Argentina
>>69205152
Gozte scored 1 goal in 32 minutes in finals played for Germany, what's the point?
>>69204999
>Platini DID carry France in 1984
Bullshit. Platini was playing behind Tigana who is still one of the GOAT french midfielders and an extremely structured team.
>>69205152
How many did Maradona score?
Or whoever you think is the GOAT
>>69205255
This makes "Gozte" the GOAT.
>>69205255
that joachim low was right
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/14/joachim-low-mario-gotze-germany-argentina-messi
>>69205309
Maradona assisted Burruchaga in the last minute in 1986, to close his GOAT performance in that WC
>>69203819
I used to think that GOAT meant worst player
>>69205345
We were talking about goals
The difference between Maradona and Messi is that the first had Burruchaga and the second had Palacio
I think yes you could but not if you play for Argentina or another top nation, then you should win one.
Maradona still goat for me
![les-virages-frondeurs-du-velodrome-n-ont-pas-hesite-a-comparer-les-joueurs-de-l-om-a-des-chevres-1460324849[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MobMETl.jpg "les-virages-frondeurs-du-velodrome-n-ont-pas-hesite-a-comparer-les-joueurs-de-l-om-a-des-chevres-1460324849[1].jpg")
>>69205369
>>69205041
last 5 minutes? He played six fucking hours
>judging individual greatness by team trophies
why do people do this?
>>69205450
>criticizing the players instead of the coach
Those guys were morons
>>69205308
But if Platini isn't a good example of carrying a team, no player ever has carried a team. Even if they had the Magic Square Platini was decisive all the time.
>>69205345
It's not like Messi didn't try to create chances
>>69205430
These players were starters in the final
>Romero
Hasn't play a single minute in like 6 months for his club
>Demichelis
Slow as a turtle
>Garay
Plays in the Russian league
>Rojo
See Romero
>Mascherano
Hans't played as a midfielder for his club in like 5 years
>Biglia and Enzo Pérez
Not bad players but definitely not even close to top midfielders, literally no offensive power
>Lavezzi
Shit since he left Napoli
>Higuaín
Specialist in failure
The only player with a good present there was Zabalete. Messi was injured before the WC
>>69205516
For fuck's sake. This webm makes me fucking rage.
>>69205542
How can you blame the defenders and the keeper when you had the best defense in the WC and Romero put you through the semifinal? The MF was also great, Mascherano was one of the best players
The ones to blame are the forwards, who couldn't score 1 goal in 6 hours, and that includes Messi
>>69205390
Palacio was assisted by Rojo, not Messi, dumbfuck
Messi didn't assist anyone
He was actually assisted by Banega but he missed an easy one on one vs Neuer
>>69205516
This and the Rojo vs Netherlands webm perfectly summarize why Argentina hasn't won trophies in these last 3 years
>>69205629
>How can you blame the defenders and the keeper when you had the best defense in the WC and Romero put you through the semifinal?
Because he's a Missi fanboy
>>69205542
They aren't household names but when you add messi to that team it's still one of the best in the world. You guys should have won that final.
It's not an insult to be just behind maradona tho, it still shows how great messi is to even be compared to the goat
>>69205641
>easy one on one
We already debunked this ages ago on /wc/
>off balance, under pressure, only real on target chance would have been to nutmeg Neuer, and even then, on target shot =/= goal
>>69205668
>Missi
you must be 18 or older to post here, taringuista
>>69205629
Of course they overperformed, they share a team with Messi. Messi managed to carry these shitters to 4 finals
You saying Messi MUST win a title because he has a top team and I'm saying he doesn't
>>69205641
>an easy one on one
Lmao, go back to /a/. You've never kicked a ball in your life
>>69203819
No.
Yes, football is a team sport and nowadays the average quality is much higher than it was before. If Maradona was playing right now, he'd perform no better than Zlatan.
>>69205698
It was an easy chance for the so-called GOAT, he scores harder goals when he's not in a final
What's the excuse for him missing the penalty vs. Chile huh? He's a natural born choker
>>69205707
>messi doing anything in 2007
LMAO
>messi "carrying" anyone through copa memerica
we literally faced no serious rival bar chile
>messi carrying anyone through the WC
>romero and mascherano defeated the netherlands
>messi didn't score in any knockout game
lmao
>argentina defeated chile without messi
>loses with messi
>messi missed the penalty
missi fanboys are delusional
>>69205707
>Of course they overperformed, they share a team with Messi. Messi managed to carry these shitters to 4 finals
In which way they overperformed thanks to Messi?
Was Messi the one who told Mascherano to tore his anus to stop Robben? Or did he help Romero to save the penalties? Was he the one directing the defense or was that Garay?
>mfw non-argies side with Messi more than us
