Thread to discuss how and why our teamstarted to fall apart.
Some questions I've been having about what's been happening
>How much can we blame CBF?
Marin and Del Nero have proven to be complete idiots, with Ricardo Oliveira we also had corruption scandals, but he at least knew the value of the Seleção. We can't deny that our football has been falling apart since he left much faster than during his control. He was a "rouba mas faz". I'm not defending the guy, but what should CBF do?
>Players
For the past years we've been complaining a lot about the attitude of our main players, but players are young morons anywhere in the world, and we can romanticise our players from the past, but they were probably just as much jerks as those of today. Besides, our main players have been losing the protagonismo in their teams since the 90's, except Neymar (he's not the main barça player, but still) and Coutinho ? (I don't know, I haven't been watching Liverpool games in a while, but I've heard he's pretty big with Klopp)
We can also discuss about the roles of our teams, Globo, Primeira Liga and general brazilian Football. I feel we're stuck in time and things have got to change so that our football can remain competitive
I know comparing with Hungary seems retarded but it's more about the idea of being what we used to be to becoming a team who can't score against Ecuador and Peru
After 1970 it took you a whole 24 years to win another WC. You may have a shit generation now, but you're probably going to improve again.
Huengary
Ederson - Dani Alves, Thiago Silva, Miranda, Filipe Luis - Fernandinho, Casemiro - Neymar, Roberto Firmino, Douglas Costa -
Bench: Marquinhos, Alex Sandro, Gil, Willian, Luiz Gustavo, Lucas Moura, Jorginho, Coutinho, Rafinha + some Hue league players I don't know
Brazil have a very underrated squad, they're a striker away from being a top 5 NT. Coaching is the main issue.
Hungary had a platinum generation ONCE, Brazil have been consistently good for over 50 years, how can you compare them
>>68433197
>>68435349
Can someone with more knowledge of soccer history explain to me ow good those old Hungary teams were? Are they really considered that elite?
Also, what allowed a small country like Hungary to produce so many great players?
>>68436317
>Can someone with more knowledge of soccer history explain to me ow good those old Hungary teams were? Are they really considered that elite?
1954 Hungary team is widely considered as one of the best teams to never win the World Cup, they went something like 4 years without losing a game before choking away a 2-0 lead in the final and had some of the best players in the world at that time in Puskas and Kocsis
>>68436442
So, they were like the 18-1s
>>68435318
>Jorginho
He plays for Italy mate.
>>68435187
Hungry
>>68436442
Thanks for the answer. Any idea what led such a small country to have such a great team at that time?
Also, how come they just completely disappeared? Did the Soviets fuck up their soccer academies or something?
The problem is the coach. A good coach can fix things up (same thing with Spain, Del Bosque is shit), Dunga did some incredible feat/streaks in his first passage with a worse team, but they had Jorginho who was the true coach. Tite is going to train our national squad and BASED AGUIRRE is going to train my beloved Corinthians.
>>68436483
Yes, they were considered heavy favourites and had beaten West Germany 8-3 in the group stages of that World Cup.
The final was played in heavy rain and some people attribute the German win to Adidas for providing the team with shoes that had interchangeable studs and could be adapted to different weather conditions.
>>68436569
>Thanks for the answer. Any idea what led such a small country to have such a great team at that time?
the USSR poured a shitload of money into sports in the Eastern bloc countries. USSR, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia all had world class teams in the 1950-1985 period.
>>68436621
Really, did Hungary have good teams past the 50's-60's? I had no idea.
>>68436686
Meant all those overall. Hungary was great in the 50s, Czechoslovakia in the 60s/early 70s, Poland in the 70s/early 80s
Coutinho is shit, will ruin the team in exchange for one blooter per 4 games
>>68436711
Ah ok, thanks again for answering my dumb questions.
>>68436602
>The problem is the coach
No. The problem is that football become professional and the Brazilian tactics are old and amaeteurish.
Also, the CBF.
No.
Brazil doesn't have the best squad in the world, that much is clear.
Doesn't mean it can't be a competitive squad (yes, even for the World Cup) with proper preparation and coaching.
>with Ricardo Oliveira
you mean Ricardo Teixeira.
While corruption is part of the problem, incompetence is a bigger problem. AFA has always been corrupt af and they got to the final recently, they support education of new coaches and Argentina has a bunch of managers oversea.
>>68436790
But they are losing to shit sides who are anything but professional
>>68436686
Not as good as in the 50s, but we were regular participants at World Cups until 1986, which was our last appearance.
>>68436887
Ecuador isn't a professional team?
Germany isn't a professional team?
Perú isn't (barely) a professional team?
>>68436914
Any idea what led to Hungary having so much talent in the 50's? Did you guys have a really great development program/sports academies or is it one of those stars aligning just right things?
>>68436790
So basically the problem is the coach.
>>68436992
Well first of all you need to know that Hungary is good at sports in general compared to its population. We finished with 8 golds, and 9th place overall on the medal table in London 4 years ago for example, and we're 12th all time at the Olympic games. I don't know what is the reason for that, whether is it genetics or a cultural thing, but now we have over 100 years of sample size, so this is basically a fact.
Besides this, what the Polish guy said above. In the East bloc it was a huge prestige thing to be good at sports to sway people's attention from politics and the things happening in the country at the time. Soccer in the 50s is a great example of this too. But this can't be the only reason, because the other communist countries weren't all that good.
I would say we were just simply a huge soccer nation back then. Many people don't know, but we also finished 2nd at the World Cup in 1938. It really only went to shit in the last 30 years, and I think that's because we couldn't keep the pace with other countries. Other than that, being a football nation with only 10 million people is not that unique, just look at Netherlands or Portugal.
I hope that helps a little.
>>68435187
>>68436508
10/10
>>68437471
Thanks Magyarfag, that's a good answer.
Hungary seems like such a unique country to me. I can't really think of any country of that size, ~10 mil population, that has been so good at so many things over the last 100 years.
You guys have been really influential in art/film/photography as well as being really good at sports compared to your size. Not to mention how huge a role Hungary played in 20th century science.
American scientists during the Manhattan Project used to call their Hungarian colleagues Martians because of their crazy language/accents and their superior intelligence.
How's life in Hungary now days?
>>68437795
The political situation is pretty shit. We have the same party governing for 6 years now, and they will probably stay for another 6 at least, because there is no good alternative. Politicans are really corrupt, and people just can't trust anyone anymore. In 1989 when communism ended we were the best country economically in the eastern bloc, you can look up some stats if you're interested. in just 25 years, we managed to get surpassed by Poland, Czech rep., Slovakia etc., the list goes on. This just shows the shitshow that has been going on here for a quarter of a decade now.
However things are not the best, it isn't that bad either. It's just that now it's clear that our dream to catch up to the west is not gonna happen in our lifetime. Also many young people go abroad which doesn't look good for the future. I for one, with an engineering degree cannot complain, but some professions are massively underpaid (eg. doctors), so you can't really blame them for that.
The other thing you mentioned, I think we still have those qualities. But we tend to look at the past too much, and brag about it instead of thinking about the future, so it is a question if it will stay that way in the long run. But yes I agree, we're a really unique country.
I know what I wrote at the beginning sounds pretty bad, but I think overall life is pretty good here. We're by no means a 3rd world country, and I think living here is great. Feel free to visit anytime, because it is a really beautiful place, and for you I think it's cheap as fuck too.
Brasil is the new Peru. Who were a powerhouse in the 70s with a meme style.
>>68438614
Thanks again for anon, good luck and yeah hopefully I'll get to visit some day.
>>68438985
Thanks senpai, it's great to see someone actually curious about us, I'm glad we could talk.
>>68438614
My dad and brother have been visiting the past two years as we still have family there. Hoping to go soon now that I'm done with grad school and can start saving money
>>68439118
Do they have a beer tradition like there neighbors?
>>68438614
This is pretty much the exact situation in most of Eastern Europe, only poorer and more corrupt
its a shame all the worthwhile people growing up that could rebuild the countries are all leaving for better opportunities, but how can you fucking blame them when the mafia is indistinct from the government and it doesn't fucking work anyway. It's such a shitshow, even in Croatia which is considered one of the better ones and is probably the most well integrated with Western Europe
>>68438614
Hey anon, I was born in Budapest but I've been living in the US since I was 2, do you know of any good websites to keep up with Hungarian news/politics? I'd like to know more of what's going on and also work on my reading skills, right now I'm like a retarded kid trying to read Hungarian.
I agree Hungarians tend to look to much to the past. We also tend to be perpetual pessimists in my experience. It's like depression is our national pastime.
What kind of engineering do you do? I work in aerospace and both my parents went to Eotvos Lorand.
>>68439386
My grandparents are both Hungarian with my grandfather living there through the war and they are two of the most pessimistic people I have ever known.
>>68433197
Brazilan issue on football reminds similar crisis with basketball in 00's. Brazil is traditional in basketball with two world titles in men's basketball and one world title in women's basketball. But 00's were tragic for brazilian basketball with men's national team out of three consecutive olympic tournaments.
>>68439356
One of my good friend's best friend is Croatian but grew up in the US. He moved back to Croatia after college but whenever we get together in the US we talk about Hungary, Croatia, Serbia since we have many friends there. I'm always surprised how corrupt Croatia is according to him, I wouldn't have really expected that.
>>68436859
But Argentina's coach is shit. Raw talent + luck carried them to one final and Messi + shit opposition to the others.
i'd assume Neymar will be the best player in the world as soon as Rondaldo and Messi fall off.
>>68439517
All of the Balkans are like that. Take a good note of what happens when you let political snakes take over and guide a country through an ethnically motivated war.
Half of the fucking hicks in Croatia would vote for a donkey if he assured them he was anti Serb. The fact that he's diverting educational funds to his fucking yacht is irrelevant
No,
Gabriel Barbosa
Gabriel Jesus
Luan
Valdívia
Gabriel Girotto
Marquinhos Gabriel
Rodrigo Dourado
Mateus Salles
Alisson
Rodrigo Ely
Rodrigo Caio
Rafinha
Andreas Pereira
Douglas Santos
William
Tiago Maia
Jemerson
Dodô
Róger Guedes
Wallace
Ederson
Willian Arão
Vitinho
Lucas Fernandes
are gonna save us
>>68439466
WWII and Soviet occupation will do that to a person. Although in the case of Hungarians its something else too. I've never met other people who can simultaneously be so proud of the past, every Hungarian will tell you we are the greatest at pretty much everything, and at the same time be so pessimistic about the present/future. It's some kind of weird pathology.
Of course my sample size is fairly small having grown up in the US and it could just be that I have a family of unusual losers.
>>68436859
shit, you're right, it was Teixeira. thanks for that. And yes, incompetence is the greater issue here, back with Teixeira he had the balls of holding back Mano to modernize BR football like we wanted so badly after 2010. It proved to be a wrong bet, but putting Dunga back is just retarded
>>68439749
>all these average players
>>68439326
Our regular beers are not that good imho, but the craft beer scene in Budapest is pretty good.
>>68439356
This 100%
>>68439386
The most popular news site in Hungary is index.hu, I read that too, I think it could be good for you to start.
I do electrical engineering.
>>68439705
Man, this is so sad to hear. That area of the Europe has so much potential, its unbelievably beautiful and you can find some very cool people.
Maybe they can all unite against Islam encroaching.
2bh I can't understand why everybody thinks Neymar is all that grat, but on the other hand, I do not follow the Spanish league.
Brazil is too big and too much of a footballing nation to just go down. You are not Uruguay.
This win against Hungary is btw seen as some kind of real founding date of the FR of Germany since it was the first competition we were allowed to participate in and it is told to have given Germans hope and confidence again after the lost war.
This team was a squad of our biggest heros.
>>68439787
Willian is not average. He's surrounded by average players at Chelsea but he's been one of the best players in the world this past year.
>>68435349
They revolutionized the sport once, that's more than 90% of the world football combined. The idea is more, are we staying behind just with the old glories?
>>68439775
No, that's pretty much Hungarian people in general sadly.
>>68436483
they're pretty much exactly the 18-1 of soccer
one of the greatest teams of all time lose in choking fashion to a team they already beat that tournament
But why are the Balkans more corrupt than Western Europe?
>>68438614
>>68437795
DONT FORGET LISZT WTF
HIS HANDS HAD THE ATHLETICISM OF FUCKING PENALDO
>wow i just made a music/football joke.
>cringed myself
>>68439985
yeah, but there are stories saying the german players were doped to win that final.
Source: The Sun (so you know it's hot)
>>68439985
the patriots only beat the giants by 3 points the first time they played them. that game could have easily gone the other way. the matchups were in the giants favor, even though the giants got lucky in a few key moments. i wouldn't call that a choke job by the patriots, and kinda hate everything about new england as a new yorker living in boston.
>>68439855
Thanks, I'll try to start reading index.hu. Are the romkocsmas still a big deal? I haven't been back to Budapest in 6 years.
How is it being in EE. The daughter of my parents' best friend left for Germany after becoming a doctor so I know about the shit wages in some fields.
>>68439961
I guess I'm glad its not just my family then, but sad nonetheless.
>>68439985
someone explain 18-1 reference thx
>>68439985
I think it's worse. It's like if the Pats haven't won a title before the 18-1 and two years after the loss Tom Brady leaved the country, and the team doesn't win anything for the next 60 years either.
>>68440241
k never mind just did >>68440233
You've sent a shit team to a meme Copa and even so you only got cucked by refball.
You've also been in the WC final three times in the last 6 editions and won two of them.
Calm the fuck down.
>>68440336
We didn't score against fuckin Ecuador or Peru
We fell in the group stage, something I had never seen alive
>Suffering the worst defeat ANY home team has ever suffered
>Semis
Pick two
The 3 finals were 94,98,02, our football has fallen since and a lot will have to change to see it go back to that level.
Fuck even Germany calmed down in the 2nd half since they still had a final to play. That's how easy was the game for them.
>>68440201
Yeah they're still pretty popular.
I don't work full time yet, I'm still at grad school right now, but the wages are pretty good for Hungary in EE. Compared to the US it's still pretty laughable, but keep in mind living here is much cheaper too. It only feels little when you want to travel.
>came in this thread to discuss Huebros' epic collapse
>Get history lesson in post-communist Eastern Europe
Never change, 4chan.
BTW the revolutions of 1989 were fucking awesome and I'm so glad capitalism "won" over communism.
Next up: freedom of religion/secular humanism type thing vs. Islam.
>>68440653
Glad to hear wages are not as bad in engineering as they are in medicine. US cost of living is insane though, especially in California where I am.
>>68433197
Gee i wonder who could be behind this
>>68440653
so this qt hungarian exchange student is hitting on me, should I smash?
>>68440827
Youre probably from Minnesota or some shit and no older than 25. Fuck off.
>>68441201
Of course.
>>68433197
The margins in soccer are just way closer than anyone wants to admit. I'm sure everyone will be saying Brazil is top 5 in the world again within 5 years.
>>68441897
maybe, but what should we do to get there?
>>68441508
Who is this semen demon?
>>68442107
Barbara Palvin
>>68441965
>asks to the American
>>68440336
S-sorry, we were used at wining. And even more our generation, people born after 80's. It's strange to suck so hard at football.
It was the first time peru win in 31 y.
Chile also won, and it was after like 20 years...
7x1
We tied with Paraguay and then lost on penalties the last 3 times we played...( I don't recall loosing to them never before htese 3)
and goes on
>>68442312
thanks anon
>>68442526
Anytime
>Hungary beat my country 10-1 in the only WC my country was in
Serves them right
>>68439749
>no Scarpa
plebeius maximus
>>68433197
BRAZIL U ARE BRINGING SHAME TO FOOTBALL IN AMERICA WHAT THE FUCK
of course
the Downfall of hungary began when dirty German cheats injured Puskas
I guess you can say the same with Neymar
>>68439749
Where's Gatorade and Bacteria?
>>68444282
> Puskas 1954
> Cruyff 1974
> Messi 2014
why germans hate fun?
This thread is making me want Hungary to win Euro 2016. It's scant consolation but at least it's something.
>>68449051
Because we had fun once and the world didn't like it.
>>68436442
>German doping caused the fall of great Hungarian football
fucking nazis
>>68449528
well played adolf, well played
>>68449528
>once
>>68440603
Back then you guyd had like 3 or 4 maybe 5 really good players on your squad.
Noy you guys only have Nerman idk what the deal is with Thiago Silva.
Willian is pretty good too I guess.
Coutinho is alright.
The overall quality of your players has fallen immensely.
And yes I know, the US team sucks even more.
>>68449693
sorry for party rocking
Stop crying faggots, you're always going to be good.
Brazil would reach a new bottom, if they miss qualification for a WC
>>68435187
Why are people underrating this post so hard?
>>68440201
Take everithing Index.hu say with a grain of salt they are very felt leaning but overall fresh and informative.
The golden age of Hungarian football starts today btw
Brazil is the only nation with +150 million people who cares about football, you will always be elite
It's literally impossible you won't find 11 good players
>>68435187
>>68439895
If you've seen Douglas Costa play in your league, just imagine his style just like at least 3 times better. That's Neymar on a good day, granted he has been out of form for a while.
