>205 Career ERA+
Can someone put this in perspective for me? I'm not much of an analytics guy, but someone told me that Rivera's career ERA+ was 1/3 better than even the 2nd place person, Pedro Martinez.
I figured that's a difficult comparison to make because Rivera is a closer.
>stats fag
This is why baseball is dying.
>>67981566
Right. Because no cats pay attention to any stats in baseball.
What are you talking about Motherfucker! Baseball has always been about stats because of the length of the season. I would say moreso than any other sport out there!
>>67981538
he fucked up the only time they actually needed him
>>67981538
5 rings
Minorities are always overrated.
>>67981538
You would be right in it's difficult to compare a closer to a starter if we were talking about any other closer. But Rivera had such a long career it's the equivalent of a short but brilliant career of a starting pitcher.
And yes, Rivera was that good. Potentially the greatest pitcher ever. No one, starter or closer, was ever as dominant as Mo for a longer stretch of time.
>>67981697
Dumbass
relief pitchers have an ERA 0.40 less than starters, overall, over the last 45 years.
Rivera is still the GOAT closer and one of the top two relief pitchers ever (Wilhelm is the other). But as a pitcher overall, no.
Retards who compare starting pitchers with relief pitchers or closers trigger me. It's like comparing a marathon runner and sprinter
>>67981538
He has the highest Wins Above Replacement of any reliever.
WAR for pitchers since the late '60s, when every team when to a five man rotation:
Clemens - 139
Seaver - 106
Maddux - 105
Randy Johnson - 104
Niekro - 97
Blyleven - 96
Perry - 94
Pedro - 86
Carlton - 84
Ryan - 84
Mussina - 83
Gibson - 82
Schilling - 81
Glavine - 74
Kevin Brown - 68
Reuschel - 68
Palmer - 68
Smoltz - 66
Tiant - 66
Halladay - 66
Eckersley - 62
Tommy John - 62
Cone - 62
Pettitte - 61
Buehrle - 59
Saberhagen - 59
Finley - 58
Tanana - 57
Hudson - 57
Koosman - 57
Stieb - 57
Rivera - 57
Sabathia - 56
What a team does in the first 7-8 innings is more important than in the last 1-2 innings, especially if a Closer only comes in when his team has already established a lead.
>>67985131
I don't understand. How is Clemens WAR so fucking high compared to all the people not hat list? I mean he is BTFOing Maddux and Randy Johnson!
Where is Pedro Martinez on that last!?
>>67985934
he played forever and was extremely consistent. i dont get whats hard ot udnerstand
>>67981566
>numbers are too hard for me
jesus fuck go back to your dying sport concussionball
>>67985131
WAR is a counting statistic though so no fucking shit a starter will have a higher WAR than a reliever
>>67986012
Honestly, WAR seems like a Bullshit metric to me. We know that Roger Clemens is nowhere close to the best pitcher in the modern Baseball era.
I think WAR has very little value.
>>67986037
You have to look at it on a per-season basis since it's a counting statistic, it's one of the best all-around stats there is
Clemens pitched for like 23 seasons so he has a pretty high WAR
Rivera was literally a failed starter
>>67986037
steroids aside what's wrong with clemens?
>>67986073
So are many relivers
>>67981834
You're entitled to your opinion, but this post is just retarded. Being a reliever for years is not even remotely close to being a starter just because the number of innings pitched might be close. It just isn't comparable. And he was not even remotely fucking close to being the greatest pitcher ever. He's not top 50, if you're including starters.
>>67986075
Are you Fucking kidding me hepcat!?
I can't even Fucking reply to this. I can't even!
>>67981538
Best career ERA of anyone in the liveball era with a minimum of 1000 IP. Easily the GOAT relief pitcher.
