>Messi is the best, plain everything
>he doesn't just score goals
>all the registers a player must have, the work rate, the skill, the dribble, the passing, the vision, the technique, he's simply the best
>the guys he's playing against are the best ever, the strongest, the fastest. every defender nowadays can run like a horse, and he is light-years ahead of them.
>it's difficult to say something new, or something better. Without doubt he's number 1, the best player today there is in football, and certainly one of the best in history - if not the best.
>>67636752
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF3yrdv3eY8
Kamil is the best
Yes, he is the best. Do we really need 2-3 threads about it every day?
>>67636918
>not dicksucking messi right now while it's still possible
world soccer will be completely shit without him in a few years. there seems to be no future GOAT sight whatsover
>>67636752
>the work rate
Suarez and Ronaldo have been better than him this season, period
>>67637047
more goals != better
>>67637047
>Ronaldo
literally lmaoing at retards like you. Ronaldo was average for the first 8 months of the season then he scored 1 goal vs Barcelona, 3 vs some mid table German team and now he's the best player in the world.
flag, topic etc
>>67637047
Messi is the biggest reason Suarez gets most of his goals
Ronaldo is le tap in man who was average at best in most games.
>>67637047
>I haven't watched a single match, I just watch the scorer table
This flag never fails at providing shit comments
>>67637066
Fancy dribbles and bias!= better
>>67637107
>Messi
>fancy dribbles
nigga u stupid
>>67637076
>>67637093
Nice ad hominems, really good discussion
There's a reason why flag topic in the real world actually applies to you subhuman fucks
Because you're worthless pieces of shit that live in total shitholes
>>67637087
>muh tap ins
Why does no one else score tap ins if they're so easy?
>>67637146
t. Jaamal Hernández
>>67636752
>the work rate
>>67637169
t. Omar Chang Tortellini
>>67637136
butthurt argie detected. Messi was shit this season and Ronaldo was better. keep crying about it nigger.
>>67636752
He's shit at argentina senpai, without a stacked team he can't do shit.
>>67637229
Besides carrying Rodrigo "JUST" Palacio, Martín "turtle" Demichelis and Ezequiel "playing in China" Lavezzi to a WC and a CA final? Besides retiring as our historical top scorer, scoring more goals than Maradona or Batistuta?
>>67637266
>Besides retiring as our historical top scorer, scoring more goals than Maradona or Batistuta?
As if that means shit today. Loads of goal records have been broken, doesn't mean Rooney is our GOAT or RVP is Holland's etc.
He flopped in the final, stop being a fanboy and deal with it.
>>67637146
>Why does no one else score tap ins if they're so easy?
A lot of players do.
>>67637266
He got carried by the defense in the WC and didn't do shit in the Copa America, he didn't score in any knockout games in those competitions, I mean come on.
All those goals in friendlies are surely impressive. Call me when you play the friendly world cup.
>>67637319
>Rooney is our GOAT
Ya, but your NT is wank, who cares
>>67637322
So why not at the rate of Ronaldo?
Or were you just pretending to be retarded and not understand the rhetorical question?
>>67637328
>didn't do shit in the Copa America, he didn't score in any knockout games in those competitions
Literally confirmed for not watching those games. He created like 5 goals vs Paraguay and set up Aguero and Higuain/Lavezzi with 2 great chances vs Chile that they obviously bottled.
>>67637352
>So why not at the rate of Ronaldo?
Because they have other duties on the pitch besides hanging around the penalty area and getting mad at team mates for not letting him score.
>>67637354
And all goals but 1 in the WC
>>67637354
It's always the same shit with Messi dickriders, when the team loses it's everyone else's fault and Messi was always amazing, but when the team wins it's him and only him, give me a fucking break.
>>67637354
>>67637405
>muh stats
>>67637374
Well that seems like a bad idea since they don't have 51 goals to their name most are obviously nowhere near his level
A player scores goals, at an incredible rate, and you think this is a bad thing
lol
Do you know how to use the greentext, chicano?
>>67637352
>why don't other players score as many as the guy who has a billion pound team completely catered to him to maximize his stats?
If he wasn't so obsessed with the ballon d'or Real would probably have won a few more titles. So many big games where he's done fuck all because he just waits around in the penalty area.
>>67637412
must really suck being in the wrong side of history, and having to live in colombia on top of that
>>67637412
Where did I say any of that? Stop grasping at invisible straws.
>>67637442
>Well that seems like a bad idea since they don't have 51 goals to their name most are obviously nowhere near his level
A lot of them have more than 1 league title in 7 years though.
>>67637469
Go ahead and find some evidence of that, bud
>>67637504
Yeah but if tap ins are as easy as you claim they're just holding themselves back
Scoring tap ins and hanging around the goal area are two separate concepts
>>67637485
>Where did I say any of that?
>set up Aguero and Higuain/Lavezzi with 2 great chances vs Chile that they obviously bottled.
He created 2 chances so he is as good as he is at Barcelona right?
Messi was completely irrelevant in every knockout game in the WC after the Switzerland one, and in the games against Colombia and Chile in the CA. Argentina as a whole was carried by the defense in those games, don't tell me Messi was so important at marking in all those 0-0 with which they got to both finals (and lost the second one).
What's sad is that Suarez has more goals with a fuck ton less shots
Ronaldo is a fucking statpadding faggot with a shit conversion rate. Considering his world class team mates are constantly passing to him and he shoots 1000 times a game, it's pretty easy to see why he has so many goals.
Worse than Suarez this year. Worse than Messi every year
>>67637553
>Yeah but if tap ins are as easy as you claim they're just holding themselves back
No, because there's more to football than a goal tally. Messi was scoring 70+ goals a season when he was playing as a striker but the team became much better when he was moved further away from goal and played more as a midfielder.
>this thread
It works every time
>>67637590
Ronaldo takes shots from all across the pitch, he's wasteful with his shot selection, it doesn't mean he's efficient
It's easy to see why he has so many goals because he puts himself in position to score those goals
>>67637612
yeah, nothing to do with his world class playmaker team mates, yeah nah
>>67637593
>there's more to football than goal tally
Sure. But it's still pretty important when the way you beat your opponent is to score goals
You made a stupid statement about dismissing tap ins and now you're talking about something completely different
>when he was playing as a striker
He's been playing the same role essentially every season since Pep took over, he's slightly moved into a more creative role however under Luis Enrique. He's not been played as a "striker" in any sense of the word
>>67637643
I'm not saying it doesn't. You're however completely excluding the possibility that Ronaldo actually does well in moving around and getting into goalscoring positions
>>67637583
>created the 2 best chances of the final
>completely irrelevant
sure thing bud
>>67637412
JAMES
A
M
E
S
>>67636752
Was*
Suarez is the best in the world this year.
>>67637670
Hamez's World Cup was better than Messi's so suck it faggot.
>>67637583
>>67637734
LMAO eliminated by >HUEZIL
>>67637740
Wow, he ran for a few yards then put in a shitty cross
>>67637741
LMAO lost two finals in a row and one to >CHILEL
>>67637766
ésto es anzuelo
>>67637669
>>67637740
Are those seriously the best plays you could find of that match, because that is really not impressive at all, and it showed in the final scoreline, and in his 1 assist in the entire cup.
>>67637783
LMAO he didn't even got to play the semis
>>67637784
Whats bait is that you actually thought that was a noteworthy play
>>67636752
how many copa americas does that manlet have?
how many world cups?
he plays for the same club his whole life, a team which was built around him and has 70% possession every single game. he will NEVER be considered the best unless he does something remarkable with a team that is not the best in the world.
>>67637818
>creating a 2v1 situation in attack from nothing
>not impressive at all
>>67637824
We didn't get the easiest draw possible though, Switzerland and Belgium, fuck off. And Messi couldn't score even against them either.
>>67637852
>this flag
>this topic
stick to killing innocent muslims
>>67637852
>he will NEVER be considered the best
lel
>all the registers a player must have, a work rate
wrong. messi spends about 90% of the game just walking around.
>>67637852
I agree with this 100%.
>>67637852
>he will NEVER be considered the best
Well, you're wrong here because he's not even 29 and already considered the best by most people.
>>67637861
First one he picked out an open man, very simple
2nd one he put in a shitty cross after a decent run
It's not the slightest bit spectacular, you have Messi tinted goggles where you think everything he does has some sort of underlying brilliance to it
>>67637861
Yes, completely worthy of the golden ball in the world cup, especially while at the same time Germany were destroying Brazil, and many players got more goals and assists than him.
>>67637901
>First one he picked out an open man, very simple
And a big reason why this man was open was Messi always having 3-4 opponents in his vicinity.
>>67637914
>beating Brazil
>impressive
pick 1, even Netherlands beat them without any problems.
>>67637920
Messi didn't magically make them go there. They decided to go there
>>67637933
You didn't address the main point in my post, how do those two "impressive" chances he created in his infinite power and wisdommake him worthy of the Golden Ball at the end of the WC, when there were several players that had better performances than him?
would say he def underperfomred a bit for argentina but than again argentina has like some of the most overrated shit players on it also no good coaches apparently so whatever
>>67637965
>when there were several players that had better performances than him?
Like who?
And I like how the main point went from "He was shit and completely irrelevant" to "He did not deserve the Golden Ball".
>>67636752
You spelt Ronaldinho wrong and wrong pic
>>67637989
Hamez and Muller
>>67637965
>in his infinite power and wisdommake
I sense the butthurt is strong in you
>>67637989
>Like who?
Just off the top of my head: James, Robben, Muller, Kross, Lahm, Neuer, even Neymar was more important to Brazil than Messi was to Argentina, and more importantly Mascherano, who carried Argentina to the final along with the rest of the defense and goalkeeper.
>>67636995
rashford and neymar desu
>>67638032
>Hamez
Players who don't make the semi final are never candidates for winning the Golden Ball. Look at the previous voting result.
>Muller
Without Muller Germany still had the best team at the tournament, without Messi Argentina would be going home after the group stages.
>>67637647
>he's been playing the same role
No he hasnt you dumb Amerifat. He's not in a false 9 role as he was with Pep because he has Suarez in front.
>tf
>tt
>>67638055
Messi carried his team in the group stages. Wasn't really important anytime in the KO round. Also, that Colombia v Brazil game was a horrible game to watch with the shit refereeing. They should have honestly made them play again. Colombia would've probably made the semis with a competent ref.
>>67638055
>without Messi Argentina would be going home after the group stages.
Yes, Messi was good against the legendary teams of Iran, Bosnia, and Nigeria. Without Messi after the group stage it wouldn't have made a difference, without Mascherano, Rojo, Romero and their tight defensive system however, they wouldn't have made it past the round of 16.
>>67638055
Golden Ball isn't most valuable to his team, it's best player
>>67638115
>Without Messi after the group stage
Without Messi there would not have been anything after the group stage. Argentina would've be an even bigger embarrassment than England.
>>67638082
You're not impressing anyone by being a cringeworthy faggot
>because he has Suarez in front
He also had David Villa in front, this has nothing to do with his overall function
>>67638115
>argentina needed defense and goalkeeper to make it to the final of the worldcup
that's an amazing and unexpected insight. I really don't know how all the other teams managed to participate without those
>>67638150
That's based on stats and stats alone, not actual objective analysis
>>67638167
>He also had David Villa in front, this has nothing to do with his overall function
You're exposing yourself as someone who started watching football last year. Villa was a left winger at Barcelona with Messi in the middle.
how anyone can say Ronaldo or Suarez have been better than Messi is beyond me
Messi was literally injured for 6-7 weeks
meanwhile Ronaldo was invisible for 7 months until he played against Wolfsburg, and Suarez is a fucking meme with a 1% shot conversion rate
in fact his slump was so fucking shit that Messi started giving him penalties, and even gave the penalty to Suarez in the Cruyff Tribute
video related,
basically the story of the season
>b-but suarez is the best!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olL9NOcCOTk
>>67638195
Messi didn't directly play in the middle the entire time, he played deeper than Villa
This isn't that hard except for retards like you apparently
Do you seriously think players stay in their set positions the entire game or something?
Are we pretending to be retarded again because we have no actual viable retort to what I have to say?
>>67638150
How? He didn't do a thing after that.
>>67638171
That's not the point, learn how to read, you dumb shit. After the group stage Argentina changed their style and system for a far more defensive one that allowed them to get through the KO rounds with very small margins, the defense really shone especially in the match against Switzerland and the Netherlands, where Mascherano literally tore his anus saving a shot from Robben at the end of the match.
>>67636752
he posts in /int/
>>67638224
Villa was a winger, Suarez is a centre forward.
Messi plays a different role now than he did in 2010-2014.
>>67638198
Ronaldo has been battling through injuries as well, he's just not as much of a pussy I guess.
>Ronaldo was invisible for 7 months
Nice meme
>>67638229
>How?
By crashing out in the group stage with Bosnia, Iran and Nigeria.
>>67638246
Villa moved centrally from a wide role
Is this really that hard to comprehend?
Am I the one needing to teach you about your own third world sport?
>>67638198
How the fuck could you even say that, messi is still top 10 even top 5 but he was nowhere near the best this year. Suarez and Neymar carries barca when he was out and imo played better. They don't even need messi. Suarez was clearly the best this year
>>67638262
>moving centrally from a wide role is the same as playing centre forward
just fuck off
>>67638257
What I mean is, he was good against weak opposition in the first 3 games of the group stage, yes, but how is he deserving of the Golden Ball when he didn't do a thing against the tougher opposition in the last 4 games?
>>67638229
whoa, mascherano saved a shot from robben? a defensive player working in defense? man, that argentina manager was a revolutionary. And he probably made his team do other crazy things, like having the goalkeeper stopping shots from the rival team, incredible
I'm learning a lot from your posts, thank you lad
>>67638278
Nobody said that you blithering fucking retard
All I said was that Villa played ahead of Messi, like Suarez does, he still plays the functionally the same role, he just plays slightly deeper in from midfield now
>>67638305
>All I said was that Villa played ahead of Messi, like Suarez does
he did not
>>67638305
>he still plays the functionally the same role
If by the same role you mean "His role is still to dribble, pass and score" then yes. But what's the fucking point?
>>67638304
Why do retards like you think being as stupid as possible is an effective arguing technique? It just makes you look even dumber than you already are.
It contributes absolutely nothing to the discussion and you just look like a giant cockgobbling faggot
>>67638316
Yes he did.
>>67638320
He's still playing the role of a false 9, he's playing slightly deeper than usual
Jesus fucking christ how about you try to fucking read
>>67638304
Okay you are clearly retarded or don't know anything about football. I knew Spaniards were notoriously bad at understanding English, but holy shit.
>>67638336
>He's still playing the role of a false 9
He literally does not.
>>67638354
Good talk.
>>67638322
you sure were able to debate my point with your post full of nothing but teen angst, I feel like I've been enlightened. It's truly amazing how life teaches you lessons in the most unexpected ways, incredible, really
>>67638305
>Villa played ahead of Messi
nope
>>67638320
>He's still playing the role of a false 9
also nope
>>67638358
There's not much to add when you're saying blatantly false things.
>>67638377
Can you please tell me what is your point, as far as I can tell you cannot grasp the concepts of defense, a system, or a style of play in football.
>>67638167
Only one being a cringey retard is you, you fatfuck "I just started watching le football in 2014".
Messi hasnt played in a false 9 role since 2012.
I still think Pele, Duncan Edwards and maybe even Cruyff were better all round players than Messi.
>>67638336
>false 9
>>67638503
>Pele
Fuck no
>Cruyff
Perhaps if you take his totaalvoetbal filoshofee seriously but I think there was an article that showed that Cruyff rarely played defensively while at Ajax/Barcelona/70s Netherlands
>>67638468
>as far as I can tell you cannot grasp the concepts of defense, a system, or a style of play in football
wow, knowledgeable and humble, you really have it all
>>67638503
True
>>67637146
>Nice ad hominems
>Because you're worthless pieces of shit
>>67638336
You are literally retarded
if he's so good why doesn't he play real football?
>>67636752
but that's not Vardy.
fact is, only retarded chicanos and halal fans dont accept the FACT that messi is the GOAT, if you dont like messi you dont like football, period. You can go back to watch baseball or whatever shit sport you want, but dont delude yourselves believing your opinion matters.
>>67637852
kill yourself kike
>>67637328
>>67637412
>>67637583
>>67637734
>>67637783
>>67637862
>>67637914
>>67637965
>>67638115
>>67638229
>>67638468
LOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOPOLOLOLOOLOOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOOLLOLOOOLOLOLOLOLOL
>>67638525
>False 9 is a position
>>67638381
>>67638435
>>67638487
This is not an argument. This is just being some cringey retard for the sake of the argument
>>67637076
>being clutch is bad
also scored 2 goals against valencia when the title race was close, and scored 2 in the last game. if barca fucked up he would have basically won the league for real
>>67644038
There is no need for an argument. You're just going around yelling that the Earth is flat and covering your ears/yelling louder when we tell you that you're simply wrong
>>67645361
>>being clutch is bad
Clutch players tend to win trophies
>>67645439
>Only player to win every trophy possible with TWO different teams
>messi trophies outside barca = ZERO
>>67645482
Why are you trying to make it sound like 1 league title and 1 CL in 7 years with the most expensive team ever assembled is in any way impressive?
>all the registers a player must have.
no header game
>>67645523
what real paid does nothing to speak for the quality of the team, using the "most expensive team assembled" is the stupidest argument ever.
Barca's team is inarguably much more valuable then Real, player for player. Just because they didn't pay for most of them doesn't take away from their worth. nice try though.
And you imply that any team in the world would beat barcelona in a league format. There easily a top 3 team in the world every year. Messi and Barca aren't mutally inclusive. We're comparing the players, not the teams. Messi has NOTHING outside of barca, plain and simple.
>>67645583
>using the "most expensive team assembled" is the stupidest argument ever.
It's only the 2nd stupidest argument ever after "only trophies won outside of Barcelona count".
>>67645616
I never once implied that didn't matter, the point i was making is that while both were able to achieve great accomplishments, One player did so in completely different leagues years apart.
By your logic, Thomas mueller should be better than Ronaldo, and Zlatan is better then both messi and ronaldo?
you wanna know why that isn't the case? Because T E A M trophies do not speak solely for ONE PLAYERS ability, especially when they've all been earned with the exact same team.
Team accomplishments say something, but they obviously don't paint an entire picture. A picture in which messi is lacking in all other aspects outside of barca. You literally can't argue that. Ronaldo on the other hand owns a hand that are unlikely to be broken anytime soon, has seen success all over europe, most goals in offical matches for any national team on the planet.
When it comes to Real vs Barca, obviously messi comes ontop, every other category he doesn't. I'm not saying "only trophies outside barcelona count", i'm literally saying trophies won in barcelona aren't the only ones that do.
>>67645766
>I never once implied that didn't matter
You did.
>the point i was making is that while both were able to achieve great accomplishments
With Messi's accomplishments being significantly better, both team wise and individually.
>By your logic, Thomas mueller should be better than Ronaldo, and Zlatan is better then both messi and ronaldo?
Why the fuck would that choking fraud Zlatan be better than Ronaldo/Messi? He doesn't even have a CL.
>Because T E A M trophies do not speak solely for ONE PLAYERS ability
They don't tell the whole story but they're definitely important. Especially when comparing 2 players who compete for the same trophies each year and 1 of them comes out on top 90% of the time.
>especially when they've all been earned with the exact same team.
Why do you think that just because all were named FC Barcelona they were the same teams?
Look at the team that started the 2009 CL final and look at the team that won 2015 CL. Are they same team?
>A picture in which messi is lacking in all other aspects outside of barca.
So team trophies can't be used to compare players but Messi is lacking because he has no trophies outside of Barcelona? (not true by the way, he has 2 with Argentina).
>Ronaldo on the other hand owns a hand that are unlikely to be broken anytime soon, has seen success all over europe,
What hand? 4 league titles and 2 CLs? Many players have gotten more.
>most goals in offical matches for any national team on the planet.
That's not even true you retard. And what did those goals bring to Portugal? Getting booted out of the World Cup by the USA. He has 3 World Cup goals so congrats on scoring against Bulgaria in friendlies I guess.
>When it comes to Real vs Barca, obviously messi comes ontop, every other category he doesn't
Messi also comes out on top in individual trophies and every single footballing skill other than heading and penalty taking.
>>67637852
Always the same arguments when it comes to Messi.
>How many WC/CA does he have?
>Team was built around him
I mean, are you fucking kidding me? Messi basically made the difference nearly every year. Sure he plays with some great (perhaps really great) teammates, but let's be honest: Messi is the one of the main reasons for Barcelonas success in the last few years.
>>67645766
>this penaldo dickrider
There are 3 facts that you should take a look at:
1. Messi has more team achievements for both club and the national team
2. Messi has more individual achievements
3. Messi is a much better football player
>>67637863
>Muslims
>innocent
Negro...
>>67645995
>bringing up the 2014 WC
that's how i know your a retarded fan boy who can't look past logic. He was injured, it was public knowledge beforehand and doctors even advised against it. This isn't some conspiracy or excuse, its fact. google it if you were unaware, there are loads of sources prior to the WC saying things along the lines that i am.
>Messi's accomplishments being better individually
>CR : 4 eudo golden boots over 8 year span
>Messi : 3 over 4 year span
inb4 you bring up the baloon d'or, which is voter based and not stat based. Which is why Suraez won't win it this year (as it looks now), but CR probably will
>Zlatan choking in the CL final
Weew there you ago again, comparing TEAM performances to INDIVIDUAL performances. But zlatan would be better then messi because he has more trophies? doesnt that matter??? and he's also done them in more leagues then messi too. I'm just going by your logic your the one sayins amount of team trophies determine individual worth
>09 barca 2015 barca
I'll even include the 2011 CL win to help your arguement, since their are a couple years between each win.
>Same Players For all 3: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Pique, Dani Alves, Sergio busquets, Pedro rodriguez, Valdes
LMAO your right their completely different teams, the core players in barca's system were radically different. kek
It's actually so impressive that messi won all the CL's with those players, surely they were underdogs each time.
>2 with argentina
holy kek i completely forgot how relevant those were. Remind me what those prestigious trophies were, they must've have been really hard to win.
>many players have gotten more
No one has more CL's in the time frame that CR won his, and most certainly not as an every game starter/leading goal scorer. 7 year span, if you want to go look it up.
>most goals in offical matches
Pic related
>inb4 euro qualifiers
which is exactly why a EC performance > then a Copa America. You don't even need to qualify for a CA
I bet this Canadian penaldo fanboy is the obsessed Brady cuck
>>67646579
>Implying Tom Brady isn't the GOAT quarter back
okay this messivronaldo thing is debatable, but Tom Brady is the undisputed GOAT there literally is no debate or argument
>>67637047
stop making us look stupid you sister fucking retard.
>>67646444
>that's how i know your a retarded fan boy who can't look past logic. He was injured, it was public knowledge beforehand and doctors even advised against it. This isn't some conspiracy or excuse, its fact. google it if you were unaware, there are loads of sources prior to the WC saying things along the lines that i am.
Was he injured during the 2010 WC as well? Because he only had 1 goal there, in a 7 goal trashing of North Korea, and Portugal once again went nowhere.
>inb4 you bring up the baloon d'or
Why wouldn't I bring up the most prestigious individual award in the world? It's voter based and just because you disagree with the voters doesn't make it any less valid.
>zlatan would be better then messi because he has more trophies
He doesn't have more trophies you retard.
>holy kek i completely forgot how relevant those were. Remind me what those prestigious trophies were, they must've have been really hard to win.
2 non prestigious trophies are still better than Ronaldo's 0 trophies at all
>No one has more CL's in the time frame that CR won his, and most certainly not as an every game starter/leading goal scorer. 7 year span, if you want to go look it up.
And why wouldn't we count anything outside of that span? He also won the most La Liga titles in the 2012-2012 span - go look it up if you want.
>Pic related
Bullshit pic. Miroslav Klose, Robbie Keane, Ibrahimovic and Eto'o all have more NT goals excluding friendlies. And I cba checking more players.
>>67646604
>debateable
It isn't debatable at all, you sound as stupid as manning fags sound to you
Messi is the best = Fact.
Ronaldo is the best = Opinion.
If you need sources look them upo they are out there on the internet and will prove this to be true.
Thread closed.
>>67646444
You're so stupid it hurts to read your posts
>Ronaldo has the most individual achievements if we don't count anything other than the Golden Shoe
>Ronaldo has the most CL trophies if we don't count anything other than 08-14 time frame
>>67646625
Stop being such a pandering fucking homo. You look like a pathetic sack of fucking shit and you will always look retarded no matter how hard you try.
You are a dumbass. No European is going to be friendly to you regardless of how pathetically hard you try to impress them
>>67645361
>Ronaldo
>Winning anything
Bayol, Casemiro and Modric were all way better than him this season
>>67646604
>okay this messivronaldo thing is debatable
It's not. Messi is universally accepted as the better player by everyone except for Madrid bandwagoners and North Americans who got into the sport 3 years ago.
can't wait for Ronaldo being exposed at Euro 2016
Messi being the best is a media-driven narrative eaten up by infantalized fans that have been non-aggressively controlled through manchild ADHD sensibilities such as fancy goals and dribbles and highlight reels rather than objective analysis.
Mainstream sports media isn't ready for a gay superstar in Cristiano. It's why he is so shunned and berated
>>67646722
Where do we donate to help with your autism? you seem to be getting rather disconcerted.
>>67646768
Nice comeback. You're a fucking loser who is crying about Europeans with Asperger's not being his online friends and your retort is autism
lmao
>>67646789 how do we calm you down?
>>67646811
Probably if you killed yourself
>>67646741
I've never read anything from a North American saying that Ronaldo is the best, I only ever see that from Arab/African Real Madrid fans on facebook/twitter.
>>67646821
good luck to you, seems like you will need it.
>>67646831
The only thing I need is for you to off your pathetic ass off this planet.
>Its another Messi is the best regardless of how he or his competition plays
Just off yourself, fanboy
>>67646845
are you a female?
>>67646693
>2010 WC
Might as well bring up the Euro's too, Both times eliminated in penalties to the one of the most dominate teams ever, Spain. And someone who is so fond of messi can surely understand that it's not all about goals. BUT AGAIN, your tryiyng to compare TEAM ACHIEVEMENTS to INDIViDUAL ONES. besides 2010 portugal was literally the worst NT portugal has had, maybe even worse then 2014.
>Zlatan doesn't have more trophies
>Zlatan : 26 as of 2015
>Messi : 25 as of 2015
messi has 1 liga this year, maybe a copa del rey. Zlatan won the league and domestic cup, thus putting their totals at 28, 26 (27 if they win the copa). So looks like your wrong AGAIN. Bad Debater.
>klose, keane, ibra
KEKKKKKK, keane has most euro qaulifier goals, but ronaldo has more if you include THE ACTUAL TOURNAMENT.
>Klose, Ibra
fucking kek, ibra only has 41, BUT klsoe has 56. So i was wrong CR is only the 2nd most goals in official matches. good read.
>2 non prestigous better than none
>implying ronaldo even competed in said tournaments
And there's a reason he didn't, not because of lack of opportunity. Lots of players don't waste their time with those meme tourneys. They mean nothing.
>Count anything outside of spain
what? I was talking CL's with multiple teams as leading player/goal scorer. My point was the longevity and ability to perform in different systems over such a period of time. again, you're not making ANY SENSE. and again making you a bad debater
>>67646708
from the following posts, it sounds like it's pretty debateable, even this guy says so >>67646716
>>67646719
if we include balon dor's, they have the same amount of indivdual trophies. Messi has one more vote based trophy, Ronaldo has one more stat based trophy. numbers don't lie.
Typo on my part, i meant more CL for different teams, but i also said AS THE LEADING GOAL SCORER, you can't pick and chose what you want to 'hear', on in this case read.
>>67646719
>>67646738
>>67646741
>>67646756
>>67646822
holy kek this delusion. don't know what time it is exactly where you all are, but i imagine it's around the time the mentally retarded are either waking up or going to bed. kek
>>67646874
>>67646765
Good examples of what intelligent mature individuals sound like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ0TsPih0i8
>>67646938
You're literally making shit up. Messi has 27 trophies, not 25. Ibrahimovic has 52 non friendly goals. Eto'o has 48 and Keane has 47 so Ronaldo is 5th at best.
It's funny how you always have to put 10 qualifiers for Ronaldo's trophy haul to look impressive. Simple facts are - Ronaldo has 4 league titles and 2 CLs, Messi has 8 league titles and 4 CLs. The only way to swing it Ronaldo's way is to use retarded qualifiers like "titles with the same club don't count" or "titles won as the 2nd highest scorer don't count".
>if we include balon dor's, they have the same amount of indivdual trophies.
Stop making shit up. It's really getting tiring.
Messi has 5 Ballon d'Ors + 3 Golden Shoes
Ronaldo has 3 Ballon d'Orss + 4 Golden Shoes.
Also there are many more individual accolades than those two.
>>67646893
Have you not killed yourself yet?
>>67637047
Messi out for 2 months with injury and still performed as good if not better than Penaldo
>>67646977
Uncanny
>>67646765
>>67646938
>making you a bad debater
It's not a debate when you're pulling "facts" out of your ass in every single post. I'm not debating you, I'm correcting you.
>>67647081
Ronaldo has been battling injuries himself. He just knows how to battle through them because he's not a bitch like Bitchssi
>>67637852
>Israel uses the Samson Option on Messitards
Impressive desu.
>>67646191
>still butthurt about Moors
KEK
>>67647069
>counting trophies pre2007
>counting a CL where he didn't even play in the QF, SF, Final
particpation medals don't count as trophies m8
>retarded qualifiers
how is that retarded? how many other of the Greats have done that?
>messi 8 leagues and 4 titles
How many players have those same exact trophies? doesn't seem like alot on an INDIVDUAL level if so many other players have the same, sounds like he just plays on the best team????
I love how your trying to dance outside the fact messi has done nothing outside of barca lmao. NOTHING. He's the definition of a system babby and theres a reason his numbers dropped off as soon as xavi and iniesta started to decline.
>muh moved into a deeper playmaker role
literally has too because no ones there feeding him sitters anymore kek. Easy for people to imply your the GOAT when you have 2 of the greatest playmakers the game has ever seen feeding you constantly. if the messi/ronaldo switched places, ronaldo would easily have more goals. You know what makes me think that? Ronaldo has seen success in 2 completely different teams. Dominated 2 leagues which have way different play styles. He can score ANYWHERE, ANY TEAM AND LEAGUE, the numbers are there to back it, FACT. Messi has 21 officail goals with argentina, lmaooo. So what's that say about versatility? definition of a system babby.
>but muh friendlies
nah friendlies against brazils C team don't count m8
>>67647081
2 months, yet only played 3 less la liga games.
>>67646693
>Why wouldn't I bring up the most prestigious individual award in the world? It's voter based and just because you disagree with the voters doesn't make it any less valid.
Because it's worthless. Things voted on by people aren't really important, it's a popularity contest.
You look at what they do on the pitch.
>PS: I don't think Ronaldo has been better than Messi, but Ballon d'Or is irrelevant.
>>67647201
>particpation medals don't count as trophies m8
Clubs count them, UEFA counts them, FIFA counts them. Nah, better not count them because this one 4chan poster says they're not trophies.
>how is that retarded?
Because it's irrelevant. If I put enough qualifiers on trophies I can make Seedorf or Eto'o look like the best players ever.
>How many players have those same exact trophies?
Exactly 1 - Iniesta.
>I love how your trying to dance outside the fact messi has done nothing outside of barca lmao.
I love how your entire argument hinges on "It doesn't count because it's in Barcelona".
>literally has too because no ones there feeding him sitters anymore kek.
Exactly, and he moved back because he has the ability to feed others sitters (unlike Ronaldo).
>if the messi/ronaldo switched places, ronaldo would easily have more goals
And fewer trophies to show for it.
>He can score ANYWHERE, ANY TEAM AND LEAGUE, the numbers are there to back it,
Let's look at the numbers then
League competitions
Messi - 0,90 goals per game
CR7 - 0,80 goals per game
Champions League
Messi - 0,78 goals per game
CR7 - 0,73 goals per game
National team
Messi - 0,47 goals per game
CR7 - 0,45 goals per game
You're right, the numbers are right there to back it.
>>67646693
The reason the balon d'or will be considered complete trash will be this eyar, when suarez obviously deserves it, but won't get it because everyone hates him
>>67647069
>Simple facts are - Ronaldo has 4 league titles and 2 CLs, Messi has 8 league titles and 4 CLs.
Messi played for the superior team. Duh.
>>67647313
And was one of the main reasons why his teams were superior.
Ronaldo has played on absolutely world class teams since his United days, his career has been 2 years longer and he has literally twice fewer trophies to show for it.
People who think Messi is better - journalists, coaches, current players, retired legends.
People who think Ronaldo is better - Real Madrid players, Real Madrid coaches, Real Madrid bandwagoners and a few 4chan shitposters
>>67647305
>Clubs count them, UEFA counts them, FIFA counts them. Nah, better not count them because this one 4chan poster says they're not trophies.
They're not rophies you moron. YOu havew to win to be able to lift a trophy.
>>67647334
>And was one of the main reasons why his teams were superior.
Irrelevant. Take Messi and Ronaldo out of their respective teams and Barcelona still wins as many trophies. Barca without Messi is Spain. That team that won three big tournaments in a row.
He is irrelevant, is finished. Everybody knows. Barcelona must sell him this summer.
>>67647383
>every relevant football organisation counts them as trophies won
>those two 4chan posters say otherwise
Hmmm, who do I trust on that one...
>quatar airlines
does this mean messi is funded by you know whats?
>>67647391
>and Barcelona still wins as many trophies
Without Messi Barcelona do not get past Chelsea in 2009 (assisted their only goal), do not get past Real Madrid in 2011 (scored 2 out of 3 goals) and do not get past Bayern in 2015.
The only CL they'd have left is 2006. I won't bother with league titles because it's much harder to gauge an impact over 38 games than over a 2 legged tie
>>67647305
>>67647334
yeah i guess your right, i keep forgetting how influental and important thomas vermaelen was in barcas success over the past 2 years. truly deserves his """"""trophies""""""", alot like how messi deserves his pre2007
>implying that seedorf and eto aren't some of the best players to play in the modern era
your retarded
>ONLY INIESTA
wow that's such a coincidence, what do the rest of the barca regulars have? like 2 or 3 less trophies?? welp there goes my arguement!!
>doesnt count because its barca
my arugment lies on the fact you only have barca to back messi, he hasn't done anything outside it. How can you be a GOAT if the criteria for one's success is so specific, and can't even come close to be replicated at any other team/time??? you wanna know how? S-Y-S-T-E-M B-A-B-B-Y
comparitive to Argentina to portugal, it's laughable at where ronaldo's managed to take that team considering how awful they are. Argentina on the other hand is easily one of the most well rounded or even best teams in the world. When your National Team is good enough to not call up a player like Tevez, that speaks VOLUMES. With that team, plus a "so called GOAT player" why haven't they seen any success with him?? or right it's not """""""barca""""""
>inb4 you try to discredit qualifiers
Qualifying for anything is actually hard, not all of the best teams manage too. AND it's alot harder to qualify for the WC for europe then SA.
Actually stop and think about that for a second, Ronaldo with a national team where your best strikers have been: Eder, Helder postiga, Varela, Hugo Almeida, and fucking NANI, you manage to consistently qualify for every major national tournament.
Oh but don't stop there, it's not like in 2010, 2012, or 2014, portugal has been in the "group of death"...OH WAIT IT HAS, and guess what? aside from the one year he played injured, they were able to make it out, it's astonishing if you actually consider what that means.
this canadian is not only delusional but literally has no life, I wonder if he's a kebab
>>67647482
No one asked you, sperglord
>>67647445
now just to add onto that, Messi w/ argentina is not only a much much MUCH better team. But they 1) don't even need to qualify for their continental cup; 2) doesn't face anywhere near as tough a competition as in europe. 3) literally has the easiest groups every world cup, or atleast the last 2 (only ones which matter for this argument)
>why can't we just play nigeria every game
This is only because you seem so dilligent in saying team achievements and performances speak towards the individual player. Which is agreeable to some extent, HOWEVER team achievements aren't only measured in trophies. What one can accomplish with a team isn't simply limited to winning. Wales qualified for the euro 2016, is that not a success? not an acheivement worth noting? Leicester city qualified for CL, regardless if they won bpl or not that in itself was huge, when you consider the oposition they play against of course, similar to portugal, and to a lesser extent ronaldo's, performances at the national level.
So to get back to you, when measuring the inidividuals, messi and ronaldo, you solely have barca, where as Ronaldo you have Man U, Real, and most importantly Portugal which has exceeded most, if not all, expectations consistently.
>>67647406
You are supposed to change Messi with another top class player not just removing it from team.
>>67647445
>your retarded
They're very good but they're far from the best. And I can make them look the best by applying enough irrelevant qualifiers to their trophies. Or Robben, or Ibrahimovic etc
>welp there goes my arguement!!
Well, yeah. It kind of does because it suddenly goes from "everyone at Barcelona has those trophies" to "just 1 other person (one of the best midfielders ever) has those trophies"
>my arugment lies on the fact you only have barca to back messi, he hasn't done anything outside it
And is winning titles at Fergie's United such a GOAT achievement? You're right, Ronaldo won with the GOAT coach in Fergie, the GOAT midfielder in Scholes, one of the best defenders of the last 20 years in Ferdinand, one of the GOAT GKs in van der Sar and a bunch of world class players in Tevez, Rooney, Carrick and Vidic. That truly shows that he can do it on any team ever. Because scoring for 2 clubs stacked with world class talent is so much different than for 1.
>Qualifying for anything is actually hard
Portugal's most recent World Cup qualifiers opponents: Russia, Israel, Northern Ireland, Azerbaijan, Luxembourg - truly a murderers row of opponents
POST MESSI AUTISTIC MEMES
>>67647515
Show me 1 other top class player who can be counted on to score goals like his solo run against Real Madrid or the dribble + chip against Bayern in the CL semis.
And it goes both ways, replace Ronaldo with another top class player and United/Real still win their CLs
>>67647521
see >>67647512
>trying to belittle qualification
teams like sweden, netherlands, france, don't qualify or barely do. They all play random little countries like faore islands and romania, yet fail to do so.
It's easy to try and write off the qualification process in favour of messi when he doesn't even need to for the contental cup, and 5 out of the 10 South american countries qualify for the WC.
>>67647591
>qualifying for the World Cup is exceeding expectations for Portugal
fuck off
Messi appears to make plays and generate chances out of nothing/on his own
Ronaldo seems to have other people do the work and get into position (which is his position, to be fair)
Messi has better passing, shooting, dribbling, and at this point hs better explosiveness
Ronaldo is good at being in the right place at the right time for a finish
Who's better, though, guys? Right?
>>67647595
lmao do you actually genuinely believe that it;s a given? like the qualification process is just some kind of formality for them because qualification is a given?
lmao i can actually see why you see it that way, because it's not like Portugal had to go into a qualifcation playoff for the last 3 tournaments lmaoooo. Thats 2014, 2012, and 2010.
>>67636752
>work rate
he literally walks back to half way when they dont have the ball. so lazy on defense
>>67647395
You dumb fucking ape.
Participation medals cannot be trophies. I don't care if FIFA digs out Cruyff's corpse and pretend he's a live, but "trophy" actually means something.
>>67647406
>Without Messi Barcelona do not get past Chelsea in 2009
>being this much of a literal minded autist
>>67647627
Russia, Israel, Azerbaijan, Northern Ireland, Luxembourg
Albania, Serbia, Denmark Armenia (2/3 teams progressing)
Yes, it should be a formality.
>>67647636
>claim they would've still won all the trophies without Messi
>get proven wrong
>hurr why did you take this literally
>>67647643
>it should
your 100% right, it should. But you wanna know why it isn't, BECAUSE PORTUGAL IS TRASH. You say so yourself, playing teams like albania, israelm and luzemborg should be easy? but they aren't, because PORTUGAL is trash. YET they still manage to qualify, wanna know why? here;s a hint
>Ronaldo in Qualifying playoffs: 6 games, 6 goals, 3 game winning goals.
>>67647670
shit, lemme rephrase that last part as to not confuse you. Of the 6 goals ronaldo scored in the playoffs, 3 of the 6 had won portugal the game
>>67647670
>BECAUSE PORTUGAL IS TRASH
Portugal without Ronaldo has better players than every team in those 2 groups except for Russia (and they finished behind Russia even with Ronaldo)
>>67647648
>>claim they would've still won all the trophies without Messi
>>get proven wrong
>>hurr why did you take this literally
They wouldn't play the same opponents in an alternate universe. You cannot just take the guy who scored these goals out and change the score post hoc.
Good effing God, you are a LITERAL autist.
>>67647687
Oh, so they would win those trophies because your imaginary scenarios say so.
Cool, I guess that settles it.
>>67647681
it's funny you say that, because i get what it looks like on paper, but in reality, like what actually happens in said games, they don't end up qualigying the easy way. lmaoo
i don't care about your fucking football manager logic dictates to you, they don't play well and thus aren't good. Whatever fifa or pes game you play, those overall ratings don't apply in real life.
You keep trying to tell me that portugal is a good team, good teams don't lose to bottom feeder teams and barely qualify by the skin of their teeth. AGAIN, ronaldo in qualifiers. SIX GAMES, SIX GOALS, 3 GAME WINNERS.
>big game player
>puts the team on his back when they need him
>clutch as fuck
Earlier you were trying to discredit them by being knocked out of 2014 because of the US, when infact they actually would have been if not for ronaldo's CLUTCH cross at the last 10 seconds of the game, tieing them with the US. Germany knocked portugal out by scoring so many goals against them.
When it comes to do or die games, Ronaldo steps up. Messi on the other hand?
>0 goals in knockout stages
You don't seem to know alot about what actually took place, do you?
>>67647681
>>67647714
You keep saying their good, but then say things like "they should be beating luxemborg!!" or "they get knocked out by the US", neither of those phrases sound like something that would pretain towards a "good team"
but none of that aspect of your argument makes any sense. You tell me a team is good, but continually give me proof that they're bad??
>>67647714
>0 goals in knockout stages
And how many World Cup knockout stages goals does Ronaldo have?
>>67647714
>theoritically good players don't perform for Argentina
>Messi is shit and a system babby
>theoritically good players don't perform for Portugal
>Ronaldo is the GOAT because they beat Albania to qualify for the Euro
>>67638042
kek
Muller was definitely more important to Brazil
>>67647445
>dat strawman
so Pele's first WC doesn't count either by your impeccable logic?
>Messi is GOAT
>scored less goals against Chelsea than Iniesta and world-class stars such as James McClean or Yakubu
What the fuck is wrong with you people. Messi is definitely the GOAT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyIgPqOpMWY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyIgPqOpMWY
>Messi can't be better than Penaldo, he has no World Cups!
>meanwhile, in Donaldo's list of accolades...
>>67647391
>Barcelona still wins
fair enough, given how many they've won it's possible
>as many
fuck off you scheisse basterd, not a chance
he's probably the most clutch player (along with Iniesta) of the last 20 years. just look at all of the goals and assists in finals
>>67647629
>"trophy" actually means something
what did he mean by this?
>>67647670
is Lewandowski the absolute clutchest of GOATs then?
>POLAND
IS TRASH
>playing teams like germany, and gibraltar should be easy?
they aren't, because POLAND is trash.
YET they still manage to qualify, wanna know why? here;s a hint
>Lewandowski in Qualifying playoffs: 10 games, 12 goals, 5 assists.
I like Ronaldo more. Of course he is older and everyone rates Messi nowadays even on popularity alone (used to happen with cr7 too) and the TSUman let his massive, massive insecurities get the better of him
>>67637863
>>67642507
im a muslim myself you retarded argies. there are 1.5 million israeli muslims
>>67637890
>>67646029
how can he be the best when a player like maradona carried a worse team to two world cup finals, one of which he won against GERMANY. germans had to man mark maradona so much they conceded 3 goals from other players. in the second final the germans were just too good not even maradona could help. both times his teammates were mainly from argie league, with some from mid table spanish clubs, and a couple which were actually good. messi had superstar team every single tournament they go to and he fails and chokes every single time because he doesn't get his precious 70% possession.
maradona also won a scudetto with NAPOLI when italy was by a margin the best league in the world, stacked with all south american, dutch, german, and yugoslav stars.
even if you ignore titles, maradona is just a better dribbler, has a better technique, has better vision and team play, MUCH better positioning, had to deal with hard tackles which were allowed back then, had a winner mentality, was a leader. the only thing messi is better in is with shots and even that is debatable. all of that without being spoonfed from the age of 12 in the best academy in the world, without 70% possession every single game.
>>67647888
>muslim
>israel
can you relate to what blacks were treated in South Africa during Apartheid?
>>67647888
>Maradona goes to the World Cup final without scoring a knockout goal
>he carried them and Germany were too good
>Messi goes to the World Cup final without scoring a knockout goal
>he chokes every single time
kill yourself retard
>>67647910
>Goals after 4+ dribbles:
>5
that's fucking ridiculous, fuck
absolutely magisterial
>>67647921
Nah m8, it's clearly a product of Barcelona's system.
>>67647888
>maradona carried a worse team to two world cup finals
World Cups, while still a great spectacle, have long been surpassed by European club competitions when it comes being football's highest-level competition, so it's fair to say that having a massive contribution to a team that's managed to win the Champions League at an unprecedented frequency is a greater achievement than winning two World Cups.
