So what's the point with this?
Why not just make rookies free agents?
Parity, no one wants them all going to the cowboys or new York
Something called balance.
Why the fuck would a 21 year old throw his career away and voluntarily go to Cleveland?
Who wouldn't take a paycut just to sit on the bench of a owl winning team?
>>67166005
Do all free agents go to Dallas or New York?
It'd be hard for all of them to go to Dallas and New York given the salary cap
>>67166044
So you're forcing someone to throw away their career?
That makes sense
>>67166066
You don't have to stay there forever. You can leave when the contract is up.
Team with the largest salary space and best cities will take all the top prospects. Stick to povertyball
>>67166099
That's comforting
Just waste possibly most of your career on a team you can't pick
>>67166137
This happens with senior free agents though
So why force rookies into something different?
>>67166140
Rookie deals are like 4 years.
Most players are playing for their second contract anyway
>>67166162
Average NFL career is 3.3 years
That's even worse
>>67166155
Because senior free agents have been passed over by the entire league multiple times. If they make it they deserve to choose
>>67166182
>If they make it they deserve to choose
Why do they "deserve" to choose?
>>67166140
So a franchise never develops because players won't go there. The franchise closes, the city loses money and thousands are left without jobs.
Seems fair.
>>67166253
Now that is an over-exaggeration
Players were probably go to who gives him the most money but since this is a league with a salary cap one team can't offer the most for all rookies
Getting rid of the draft could actually help shitty teams since they have the opportunity to sign a bunch of good rookies
>>67166099
How long are the usual rookie contracts?
How long is the average NFL career?
>>67166140
pro sports isn't about success it's about how much money you can squeeze out of your team to finance your post-sports career. which is going to account for the vast majority of your life.
Are you all fucking idiots? They go to a lesser team as rookies to prove themselves an asset, and then if they're good, they get noticed by and move to better teams.
>>67166341
I'm not sure how that doesn't help my argument
>>67165992
>>67166066
>>67166140
I didnt realize Johnny Manziel posted here
>>67166345
Slight problem
The NFL runs like 32 Real Madrids
>>67166352
well you're not wasting your career if you're making 20 times as much money as the average kid your age. it doesn't matter where you play, if you walk away as a multi millionare.
>>67166058
If they had a choice most athletes would rather go to a big market team or the team they grew up a fan of.
>>67166377
This is a bad justification
>>67166389
But most likely the one that gives them the most money
>the team they grew up a fan of
What's the problem with that?
This is bait
>>67166296
All the good rookies would just go to Dallas or NY and those teams can have their pick of the best players. Your idea of letting all rookies just be free agents only works when all the talent is equal, which it isn't. There are clearly better players than others.
The shit teams only have a shot at the best rookies because they have the highest draft picks. If they were all just FAs the teams would still basically be drafting players except the teams with the most prestige and best market would pick first, but rather than picking 1 player at a time they can pick in bunches.
>>67166396
yeah i'm sure you would be saying that if you were driving around town in a car that's worth more than the house you grew up in.
>>67165992
you make good points OP, but I would probably say money. Draft tv coverage and the excitement of the next football season probably brings in tons of revenue. Plus most of these rookies arent being paid what their market value probably is right now so thats a plus for the NFL and owners
>>67166411
Why do you people keep insisting they'd go to Dallas or New York?
The league has a fucking salary cap
They can spend only so much money
Shit teams probably have some money to spend so they can offer the most money for some of the higher-end prospects
>>67166402
It would make the teams with larger fanbases better because they'd have a bigger pool of players that would specifically want to play for them.
>>67166172
Git gud
>>67166468
Okay
So what?
And I'm pretty sure money would be more of a factor
>>67166458
No state taxes in Texas or FL, so they would actually make more money going to those states for same contract going somewhere else.
>>67165992
Parity, you want the worst teams to have access to the best young talent in order for them not to suck as much next year. Obviously it matters more on management for that if you have teams like Cleveland though.
>>67166337
Depends on how good they are and what round they are drafted in. Also a drafted player can be traded immediately since there is no rule in the NFL forcing a team to play anyone they draft.
Usual rookie contract lasts 2-3 years. Average NFL career barring career ending injury is between 10-15 years. If another team is willing to buy out a contract and
Also a drafted rookie is not obligated to play for the team that drafts them. But you usually have to have a damn good reason not to and be a good player to get away with that. Bo Jackson and Eli Manning were two major examples of players who were drafted by teams they outright refused to play for. So the former just didn't play football at all for that time, and the latter was traded.
>>67166508
>California
kek
>>67166508
A little better
But since there's free agency for veterans anyways then it's a bad justification
>>67166533
>Parity, you want the worst teams to have access to the best young talent in order for them not to suck as much next year.
Shit teams probably have the most cap space and the best opportunity for playing time
>>67166543
>Texas taxes more than California
Thanks Republicans
Let me explain it in cuckterms for those who can't grasp it
You have a clasroom of 32 guys, all ranging from Chad to Cuck (You)
You watched Chad fuck the hot girls again and it's been a theme for years
New year, so new grills enter the class
The system now is set that Cuck (You) can have the first pick of grills
Otherwise, the grills will go to Chad regardless how they are used
It's science.
>>67166552
There's a veteran minimum contract. Vets get paid more than rookies.
>>67166595
Shit example
All teams can spend only so much money
And there's other factors like playing time too
>>67166609
Not sure how that helps your argument
>>67166543
That isn't the same amount being taxed though since the picks all make less money from the 1st pick down based on the rookie scale. If it was all equal then Texas and FL would have the highest wages after taxes.
>>67166617
Since the CBA a few years ago, rookie contracts are pre-determined. The first overall pick gets X, the second overall pick gets Y and so on. It's up to the teams how the contract is structured, but the money is pre-determined AND pre-allocated by teams before the draft.
>>67166646
the chart shows that.
Although, the actual numbers are based off last years wage for rookies
>>67166488
Money isn't as big of a factor when there is a salary cap. Additionally Rookies get paid based on the position their picked. A 1st overall makes more than a 32nd overall
>>67166543
Plus isn't the cost of living a lot higher in CA compared to Texas or FL?
>>67166663
?
How is that relevant?
>>67166690
It would be
And the rest of this isn't relevant
>>67166712
How is it not relevant? When a team can't spend more than X dollars a year the spot they draft a guy is a big deal. It's the difference between $3 Million in cap space and 500k in cap space.
>>67165992
>being drunk at 10 AM
>the city of OP
>>67166736
Because every team wouldn't be offering a player the same contract
They'd offering a different amount based on a variety of factors
>>67166402
Some teams would be irrelevant forever like NCAA football or MLB.
But now we have the Jaguars turning their franchise around, the Panthers from 2-14 to 15-1 5 years later, the Bengals as almost 20 year laughing stocks to a stacked NFL team and the Patriots to a virtual irrelevancy to a dynasty the next decade.
Drafts are more fun... if it weren't for the Draft the Cowshits would be good
>>67166005
I've got a question lad, which is the biggest NFL club in terms of money, support, fame and prestige, like the Man Utd of American Football? I've always wondered.
>>67166895
Packers, Patriots, Bears, Cowboys, 49ers and Giants in no particular order.
>>67166396
holy fuck you are a kid who doesnt know how the world works. i would suck all kinds of dick just to make half of what these guys make. and im not even talking about my normal weekend dicksucking habits... i need to go pro
>>67166543
hey man... but living in san diego is pretty fucking based no offense to florida or texas. im too used to perfect weather none of that humidity shit
>>67166919
No one of them is bigger than the other? And the Bears? Really? I thought they hadn't won jack shit for donkey's years?
>>67166919
>bears
>>67166954
As far as pure glitz and glamour and media attention the Cowboys are ahead of the rest.
They are the only one that gets it even when they're shit. The 49ers had a shitty stretch and no one cared. Same with the others, except for the Pats, because its been so long since they've been bad.
>>67166954
I'll show you MY big club
>>67166895
Steelers
>>67167004
no homo lad, soz
>>67166993
Aren't the Packers the most successful NFL team ever?
>>67166389
>wanting to pay infront of yandere media and twitter followers
>not wanting to play for the jags or bucs in obscurity
>>67167057
only because they had the GOAT coach
>>67167057
STOP FUCKING GLORY HUNTING AND JUST PICK ONE WITH THE COOLEST LOOKING PICTURE IYO (IN YOUR OPINION)
>>67167057
Technically, although the level of competition in the early years of the league were pretty much nonexistent.
>>67167057
>most successful team ever
>4 super bowl wins
>>67166954
Bears are the 8th most valuable franchise but have one of the larger fanbases due to their history and being a marquee area. Remember that until about 3 years ago people still feared the Bears defense as the best in the league.
>>67166895
>Traditionally good team that everyone who's not a fan of hates but sucks now
Probably the cowboys
>>67167090
Oh I already casually support the Giants because of based LT, I should really support the eagles though since all my yank family are from Philadelphia, maybe I am a bandwagoner
>>67167181
You can't bandwagon a shit team
>>67167101
I'm only asking lad, no need to get your knickers in a twist. Who is the most successful then?
>>67167208
cool so I'm ok then lel
>>67167138
I want to support the bears so I can bearpost
>>67167287
Join us brother.
To pretend to Americans their sports are superior and everyone will be a winner it's all fair! However in reality the current system benefits the Jew owners who get rewarded for incompetence unlike say any other business venture in the history of the known universe
>>67167364
fuck it
>>67166841
I don't see how OP can't grasp this. Just look at La Liga and the Bundesliga where the goal of every player is to go to the best team and win every year.
>>67167477
Because there's a salary cap
>>67167643
The salary cap helps, but great players will make more in endorsements than salaries. They could all take a smaller salary and go play for the Cowboys and win Owl after Owl. Front offices also are smart and know how to get players big money without big cap hits, such as signing bonuses.
>>67167405
To be fair, tanking is a double edge sword because that mean less people will watch the games and buy less gear if their team is sucking
>>67166919
>bears
>giants
>patriots
>>67167838
>Patriots 2nd most valuable team
>Giants 5th most valuable team
>Bears 8th most valuable team with top 3 attendance and viewership
>>67167405
>tf
>tt
you only have so much time after you go to shit and tank. failure to turn high draft picks into wins can be a death sentence for a franchise
>>67166954
Don't underestimate just how dominate the 1985' Bears were. Yes, it was 30 years ago, but what they did was something never matched. And these were the days they were still allowed to play like men.
https://youtu.be/1tnRBvqQi0o?t=44m10s
>>67167861
None of those teams have the history of winning that United has
>>67166954
>this team hasn't won many games since I started watching the NFL three years ago they must be a bad franchise
if i was a player and i knew i was going to get drafted id just tell cleveland and the other teams that would ruin my career to not take me and warn them i would suck on purpose if they did. surely they wouldnt want me anymore and i could go to a good team while still being drafted
>>67167905
The Giants have been to 5 Owls and won 4, while the Pats are tied for the most Owl appearances of all times.
>>67166595
So what you're saying is that these rookies are being drafted for the sexual pleasure of their new team?
>>67167927
Remember this is a communist system. If you fail to comply with sufficient enthusiasm you will be sent to the gulag.
>>67167927
John Elway swore he wouldn't even play professional football if the Colts drafted him, but that didn't stop them.
>>67167927
It happens.
>>67167927
"Drafted" just means a team owns the rights to you if you decide to actually play. It doesn't automatically mean you're on that team, rather that you cannot play for any other team. This situation plays out much more frequently in baseball, where players get drafted as 18-year-olds, but have zero intention of going pro. But when they do go pro in a few years, that original team owns the rights to them.
>>67167927
It has happened before. Eli Manning told the Steelers if they drafted him he wouldn't play. Personally people who refuse to play for the team that drafted them should be banished from the league all together.
>>67167702
This is just fear mongering
You keep coming up with bullshit reasons to keep the draft
>>67168239
Why?
For standing up for their rights?
>>67168239
>>67168127
>Forcing someone to play for a team they don't want to play for
Pants on head retarded desu
>>67168379
Do you also have an issue with franchise tags and multiple year contracts?
>>67167861
bruh the Texans are the 7th most valuable team.
The Texans
>>67168239
It was the Chargers.
This was when the Chargers were the toxic waste team of the league
>>67168379
It's collectively bargained by the players Union desu
>>67166066
The idea is shitty teams get good college players so that they become good teams you moron. Its to prevent it becoming yuro soccerball where the best team dominates eternally.
>>67168504
The player's union is also a retarded thing
>>67166533
>Average NFL career barring career ending injury is between 10-15 years
If you're a pro-bowl player. Most careers are like 4-6 years long.
>>67168532
Well since nfl basically has a monopoly and it's a single entity, it's kind of necessary
>>67168523
No one has given me a non-bullshit answer to why that can't happen without a draft
>>67166533
>Average NFL career barring career ending injury is between 10-15 years
What the fuck are you on
>>67168239
Worst poster on the board.
>>67168523
Ah, right. Socialism. I get it now
>>67168568
How else would you do it?
>>67168614
Yes. A system intended to keep all power with a handful of elite millionaire business owners, and make them more money, is socialism.
>>67166617
>reading skills
>>67168691
Um, no draft?
>>67168523
The fact that there are NFL teams that stay eternally good and NFL teams that stay eternally shit shows that this doesn't work. If you make good decisions as an organisation you will do well, if you make bad ones you won't, and no amount of high draft picks will make the Browns good.
>>67169044
The reason there are eternally shitty teams is because they're ran by eternally shitty owners. Why have the cowboys sucked for the last decade for example? Because Jerry Jones took control and became GM and President.
>>67168930
And you've yet to give a non-bullshit answer why eliminating the draft wouldn't just lead to the same teams remaining elite and the bad teams staying bad.
>>67169259
Because veteran free agency hasn't
>>67169044
It does work in theory. There can be franchise players that change franchises. The two teams who picked 1 and 2 in 2011 were just in the Super Bowl
The issue is, the shitty teams also tend to have shitty owners/GMs and just fuck up.
But at the very least, they have the oppurtunity. Them fucking up on them, not the system.
>>67169309
That's different than having the top players every year go through a handful of teams before other teams even get a chance in veteran free agency.
>>67169044
The absolute worst run teams will remain bad, the absolute best run teams will generally stay relevant. It's the majority of teams in the middle it affects and improves their chances of getting better. It lets a team turn itself around in a matter of a few years instead of decades.
Makes the league more entertaining
>>67169123
thanks for repeating what i just said
>>67169466
No
Unless you enjoy tanking
>>67169350
But there's no proof that would happen
Rookies would go to the team that provides the best money/playing time combo
Which would change every year
If all rookies one year went to a handful of teams, where would the rookies the next year go? Obviously somewhere else
>>67169602
tanking in football isn't really a thing.
>>67169602
Its just a fact of life that you have to deal with. America would never support a promotion relegation system and there are already too many teams for every one to get good players. Draft system is there to help teams get good.
>>67169680
Or they could just sign rookies straight up without a fucking draft
>land of the free
>can't choose the team to play with
nice "freedom" you've got there, America
>>67169699
there'd be all sorts of tampering with college kids and recruiting them and shit.
College football would be even more of a mess on that front.
>>67169722
If so, it would still exist now
>>67169602
If a team could sign just 2-3 top 15 rookies a year, they'd be a great team. If 3 or 4 teams are doing this every year, they now own almost all of the top incoming talent.
Your whole argument is that we should leave the current system, which is effective, for another one because we can't prove that it won't work out.
>>67169738
it really doesn't, though.
Teams dont have to persuade anyone to play with them. They just draft them.
Someone like Andrew Luck would have NFL teams all over him pitching for him to join by the time he was Sophmore. It would get completely ridiculous.
>>67169309
It's different. Veterans have a track record, which generally determines how much they're going to get paid. Without the draft, teams are going to get forced into bidding wars for rookies, with the worst teams having to over pay to get top tier rookies. This in turn would limit their ability to keep proven veterans and sign non-rookie free agent, meaning it's a lot harder to turn a franchise around.
>>67169755
That's if something like the veteran free agency didn't exist
Define effective
It's not completely broken like in the NBA, but is clearly unfair to the players and some teams
Zeke to Dallas and also Bosa will bust
>>67169815
That's kinda where the salary cap kicks in
They have to be smart with their signings
Bill Belichick understands that it's better to get a large number of players than a few good players from the draft
So this forces teams to make smart signings instead of blockbuster ones
As >>67169044 points out
>>67169827
>Define effective
Teams have the ability to build through the draft and improve. There's evidence of this, c.f. Seahwaks, Broncos, Panthers, etc.
>That's if something like the veteran free agency didn't exist
What do you think this has to do with all of the best players giving the first 3-4 years of their careers at a handful of teams?
>>67169949
Teams could still build through rookie signings
This is to help rookies mostly
But it also gives more of a chance for worst-to-first stories
And they fucking won't
If you get drafted to a team you don't like, you don't actually have to play for them. You can just say "trade me" because I'm not playing for you. Just like based Eli did.
>>67167885
Unlike say, the rest of the world where if you have a bad couple of years you csn drop down the league system, lose all your players and a boatload of cash
>>67167209
In terms of Super Bowls? Steelers
In terms of most championships? Packers by far
>>67168066
He had the threat of going to baseball though
>>67169044
Great detective work there, Nigel. No fucking shit. If the Browns got a competent HC and gm they could be a decent (aka playoff) team in two or three years. If Newcastle United had a manager who was equally as good as man u's manager, then Newcastle would theoretically still lose the vast majority of matches against Man U because they don't have nearly as much money to spend.
