Seriously this is the only one we should be talking about.
Cocaine vs HGH
Messi is easily the better player
Messi is the better player, Maradona is the better leader.
>Don Diego: (snorts cocaine off hookers) Guys, get on my back, I'm winning the World Cup.
>leo: ...andres? xavi? help?
Maradona >>>>>>> messhit
>>66297789
/thread
>>66297912
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah8xBnjtYWw
>>66297701
has anyone here even seen prime maradona? Got a chance to watch him regularly? Or just highlights?
>>66297701
Messi > Maradona and I say that as a Napoli fan
>>66297981
underage pls go
Speed: Messi
Strength: Maradona
Drive: Maradona
Intelligence: Maradona
Shot power: Maradona
Shot accuracy: Maradona
Short passing: Messi
Long passing: Maradona
Ball control: Messi
Crossing: ?
Leadership: Maradona
Dribbling/close control: Messi
Heading: Maradona อก
Agility: Messi
Finishing: Messi
Link-up play: Maradona
Footballing brain: Maradona
Overall stats: Messi
>>66297789
club player, yeah
international? nope
>>66298069
>Intelligence: Maradona
>Shot accuracy: Maradona
>Long passing: Maradona
>Crossing: ?
Messi is better in all those
>>66298072
why are so many people, and I've noticed especially americans, so obsessed with international football?
to most players and supporters NTs are of little importance compared to club football
>inb4 patriotism
The two generations are two far apart to judge side by side and the only ones who can actual talk about Maradona will be the granddads of 4chan.
If you're going to judge by youtube clips alone we might as well say Ronaldhino is the best player ever.
>>66298221
>Ronaldhino is the best player ever
He is.
>>66298206
It is pretty amazing, especially when Americans never play sports outside of their own.
>>66298206
>to most players and supporters NTs are of little importance compared to club football
Really? It seems like people get way more worked up about the international side of things.
maradona single-handedly won argentina the world cup
>>66298291
The only exception is the world cup and the knockout phases of the Euros. People hate international breaks here because they fuck up club form and risk injuries to players.
Napoli had way better opponents in Milan, Inter, Sampdoria and Juventus
>>66297981
I am old.
Messi pisses over Maradona. Until Messi he was the best I've seen though.
>>66298339
This. I barely even watch England outside of the big tournaments
>>66298326
>7 game sample decides who's the better player
Maradona
Messi is a manlet
Mรผller was a better scorer than both. Maradonna is a meme
>>66297701
Maradona hands down.
>>66298552
it's when a player proves if he's a man or a boy
if you can't lead your nation you are nothing
>>66298206
>this is what Europeans believe
>>66298649
What if your team is shit..? It's not the case for messi but still.
>>66298649
>7
>game
>sample
>>66298206
>Why are people so obsessed with the World Cup?
uh...
>>66298354
This.
Word for word
>>66298649
this
his subpar performances with the argentina national team lend credence to the systembabby label he's gotten
>>66297701
>Calls Messi best in the world
>Messi has no World Cup
kek
>>66297800
ya that 2010 leadership was on point senpai
>>66298649
Roque Junior > Paolo Maldini
confirmed by World Cup since that proves if you're a man or a boy
Maradona will always be remembered as a legend
>>66298354
/thread
>>66298873
I didn't realize we're talking about him as a manager.
>>66299020
A cocaine cheating legend. What a legacy. All other achievements mean nothing, just look at Lance Armstrong. He didn't even cheat he just did exactly what everyone else did while having 5 types of cancer, but he won therefore he's the only guilty party.
>>66298674
>last year's argentina
>shit
>>66299378
theres no need to be upset
Messi faces Laporte and Ramos
Maradona faces Baresi and Vierchowod
>>66299411
why are you posting a picture of him cheating? it only confirms that the biggest achievement of his career was only possible thanks to cheating
>>66299378
>he thinks messi is natural
>>66299437
you gotta do what you gotta do to win m8
>>66299426
Van Basten himself:
>โI played against Maradona and he was a great player like Messi too. There is a big difference between 25 years ago and now, though.โ
>Maradona and Van Basten had more space to play in, and the game today has become much more compressed, said Van Basten
>โWe had an area of maybe 40 metres by 50 metres in which we could play; now itโs so tight itโs only half of that,โ he explained. โPlayers have lost 20 metres of space and there might be 10 players between them and the penalty area when they get the ball.
>โYou must have very good technique, be very clever to get through the defence, play quick one-twos. That is very, very difficult, and itโs the biggest change between then and now.
"I have played against Platini, Maradona, Cruyff and played with George Best โ a lot of big names, but none of them has been able to do what Messi does. Two years ago I said that the best player I played against was Maradona and the best player I have played with was Bestie. But I can now say I have never seen a player as good as Messi. Heโs in a league of his own." - Former Tottenham star Gerry Armstrong
"Messi is better than Maradona; he is more complete, more consistent, more spectacular. He is reinventing the game โ a mix of the real and the virtual." - Tostรฃo
Messi is probably the greatest thing to happen to professional sports.
How many World Cups does messi have?
"Fellaโs a genius. Best ever by a distance in my life time. Never really saw Peleโฆ Souness, Gullit, Venables and now Rooney agree Messi is the best they have seen. He plays a game with which we are not familiar." - Gary Lineker
>>66299685
the same amount Maradona have European Cups+La Liga titles. :)
"I was a big fan of Maradona growing up and of the current crop Ronaldo is good but Messi is the best Iโve ever seen. I donโt dish out praise lightly but Messi deserves it. I look for weaknesses in his game and I canโt find them." - Roy Keane
"Messi is the best player ever. And this is said by someone who has seen Maradona and Pele play." - AC Milan chief Adriano Galliani
>>66299408
>it's not the case for messi but still
do all Moroccan people, just like the footballers, stop halfway in?
>>66298649
Messi carried Argentina to the WC final, they did not deserve to be there
>>66299757
So he doesn't have any World Cups?
Got it
>>66299408
>Last year's argentina
>Not shit
>Implying they would have reached the finals without Messi
>>66299803
>Deciding who is the better player by their performance in a rigged tournament
wew
>>66299839
>Everything England is bad at is rigged
wew
>>66299803
>using team achievements to decide who's the better individual player
got it
>>66299855
>"I've never seen a WC"
Messi has never won a WC so until he does he won't have surpassed Maradona. A WC is worth 10 CLs and 100 La Liga titles.
Maradona played in shit teams and won them trophies. Messi plays with fucking Barcelona, engineered to win with all their millions.
Let him try and win a CL or score hat tricks all the time with Getafe.
>>66299882
>A WC is worth 10 CLs and 100 La Liga titles.
Lukas Podolski > Johann Cruyff
>>66299803
Now that we've established Maradona doesn't have greatest club football TEAM trophy and Messi doesn't have a greatest NT football TEAM trophy, care to elaborate how that is relevant to the debate?
>>66299882
>A WC is worth 10 CLs and 100 La Liga titles.
Miroslav Klose > Marco van Basten
Prime Maradona would only be Neymar/Robben tier if he was a player today. Prove me wrong.
>>66299907
You numpty. I don't even need to say anything else
>>66299882
>Maradona has never won a European Cup (didn't even reach qurater finals) so until he does he won't have surpassed Messi.
Fixed :)
>Maradona played in shit teams and won them trophies.
Top lel. He failed to win La Liga with Barcelona (finished 4th and 3rd), Barcelona won the title in the first season AFTER he departed. :)
>engineered to win with all their millions
>Let him try and win a CL or score hat tricks all the time with Getafe.
Why would he need to do something even Maradona didn't achieve? You do realize Napoli paid WORLD RECORD transfer fee for him? :)
>>66297955
>dislike messhit
>HURR HE MUST BE A RONALDO FAN
they're both fucking cancer to football, stop projecting
>>66299757
Ok, Messi wins.
>>66299882
>Pedro is better than Cruyff : The Theory
>>66300036
How is Messi cancer to football? Are you just mad that people are so crazy over stats because of the Messi v. Ronaldo thing?
Because if you watch Messi play, he is absolutely fantastic. Magisterial I might say.
>>66298116
And heading as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe15uHGeKVU
>>66300036
You're the sort of cuck who hates Stephen Curry for solving basketball
>>66299549
>Maradona and Van Basten had more space to play in, and the game today has become much more compressed, said Van Basten
does van basten always refer to himself as 'van basten'?
>>66300035
Winning a WC is a superior achievement.
You didn't prove anything. Napoli and the Argentina team he played with weren't a patch on Messi's Barcelona and current Argentina team. Maradona won what he won with much inferior teams. When Messi goes to Getafe and wins them the CL then you can make a fair comparison.
>>66300035
>'Pelusa', as he was known, arrived at FC Barcelona in 1982 from Boca Juniors. Unfortunately, Catalonia never got to see the best of the player, first due to hepatitis and then due to a serious injury. These circumstances meant that although the player went on to achieve so many great things in his life, the Camp Nou only got a few passing glimpses of his true potential. But there were some moments to cherish, such as his chipped goal against Red Star in the 82/83 Cup Winners Cup or the one he scored at the Santiago Bernabรฉu in the League Cup the same season, which even had some of the Madrid fans applauding.
>His relationship with the Board deteriorated to the point of no return, and after Barรงa lost the Copa de Rey final to Athletic Bilbao in 1983/84, he moved on to Napoli in Italy.
From Barcelona's website
>>66300128
Van Basten has never won a WC so until he does he won't have surpassed Miroslav Klose/David Villa/Luca Toni. A WC is worth 10 CLs and 100 Serie A titles
>all these faggots avoiding the main argument
Messi will never EVER win a WC and he will remember this little fact for the rest of his life, can you imagine how shitty he felt at this very moment (pic related) holding the equivalent of a consolation price?
He also probably never thought he would make it into the finals but to finally reach that point and to completely fuck up the only chance he ever had to shut everyone up will haunt him for years
Sure he won the CL multiple times but what does that prove to himself? That he made some spaniard or some poor african/asian child or some plastic bandwaggoner experience a fake feeling of satisfaction while some of his OWN country people all saw him fail and probably resent him in secret?
>>66299936
Maradona is a much more technical player, he's more technical than Messi too. In terms of kicking the ball I don't think anyone compares to Maradona, his passing long and short, FK prowess and even his use of fringe body parts to make plays with is unparalleled.
Messi is better at dribbling in tight spaces, his slalom is probably a bit better (at least equal) and he has a better goal-scoring instinct.
Maradona is a much more appealing figure though. Messi is like a force of nature, he's just there and you can't stop him. You could write an epic poem about Maradona as if he was Achilles.
>>66300231
Answer one question.
If Higuain had taken that chance and Argentina ran out as winners, would this make Messi a better player?
>>66300188
Stop making a fool of yourself proving you haven't understood a single word of what I said
>>66300231
dont watch much soccer but does this guy have some form of autism? every picture i see of him reminds me of the autistic kids in high school. A lot of of those guys were fucking talented as fuck too. One of them could play mozart and shit at 8 years old but literally couldn't do anything else and never spoke to anyone at school.
>>66300128
>Implying Getafe has a similar level to Maradona's Napoli.
> Implying Maradona won the CL with Napoli.
One of the most repeated lies about Maradona's career is that Napoli was a Serie B team. 2-3 years before he arrived, Napoli was the 3-4 team of Italy. It is true that the last two seasons before Maradona arrived were pretty bad, but Napoli was a team that hadn't been in Serie B since 20 years ago, in the 60s. Obviously it wasn't a top tier team as Barcelona is today, but it was a good second level team. And anyway, his most succesful title in Europe was a single UEFA cup, nothing relevant.
>>66300272
Did you already forget?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGR962CLR7E
>>66300272
Assisting someone in the WC final is still goat tier and don't forget that Messi carried the NT to the final. So yeah
>>66300272
Higuain was never going to take that chance because that's what Higuain does.
Messi needed to show something other than walking around the pitch like he didn't care
>>66300291
You said that a World Cup is worth more than any other achievement and used "he won a World Cup" as the only argument for Maradona being better.
Paolo Rossi > Roberto Baggio
>>66300327
you didn't answer the question
>>66300362
you didn't answer the question
>>66300128
>Maradona's Argentina isn't a patch on Messi's Argentina
Top lel m8. That Argentina won 2 consecutive Copa Americas in that period WITHOUT Maradona. :^)
>Maradona won what he won with much inferior teams
I agree, Napoli was inferior to this Barcelona, but they were still a title conteder side in Italy. Don't let the relegation zone meme confuse you, they won the title in the 3rd season after Maradona arrived and 8/11 players with most minutes played that season came in the club with/after Maradona.
>When Messi goes to Getafe and wins them the CL then you can make a fair comparison
I already implied to you this Getafe isn't in the same ballpark as that period Napoli. Does this Getafe have the power to break world record transfer fee to bring worlds best player? You do realize Napoli had big money influx and mafia backing then?
If Getafe had the power that they could afford Messi, have no doubt that such club would win at least two titles in 6 years. :)
>>66300422
I did. Ifs and buts are irrelevant. There's only two things certain in life: Death and Higuain missing when he's needed to score an important goal
>>66298843
That bs again, keep trying pleb.
>>66300298
"Newton and Einstein had a certain level of autism - I hope that, like them, Messi surpasses himself every day and continues to give us his beautiful brand of football." - Romario
>>66298348
Juventus NT players 86-87
> Scirea
> Cabrini
> Laudrup
> Platini
> Serena
Inter NT players 86-87:
> Zenga
> Bergomi
> Passarella
> Tardelli
> Altobelly
> Rumenigge
Milan NT players 86-87
> Baresi
> Maldini
> Donadoni
> Wilkins
> Hateley
> Massaro
Sampdoria NT players 86-87:
> Pagliuca
> Briegel
> Mancini
> Vialli
> Cerezo
----------------------------------------------------------------
Real Madrid NT player 14-15
> Casillas
> Varane
> Pepe
> Ramos
> Khedira
> Cristiano
> Kroos
> Benzema
> Rodriguez
> Bale
> Marcelo
> Navas
> Hernandez
> Silva
> Arbeloa
> Modric
> Isco
Atletico Madrid NT players 14-15
> Godin
> Griezmann
> Koke
> Mandzukic
> Turan
> Oblak
> Torres
> Juanfran
> Miranda
> Gimenez
Valencia NT players 14-15
> Negredo
> Guardado
> Postiga
> Alcacer
> Perez
> Feghouli
> Pereira
> Otamendia
> Mustafi
> Alves
Sevilla NT players 14-15
> Krychowiak
> Gameiro
> Bacca
> Mbia
> Banega
Keep sucking Messi's cock faggots
He'll never win a World Cup, you can cry as much as you want but he is still number 2 of all times
>>66300454
lol that penalty
>>66300644
>he is still number 2 of all times
wait, who is number 1?
>>66300388
That wasn't my only argument imbecile. Go and read again idiot. That's an argument when comparing Messi and Maradona
Get over it
The 2 guys have both immense talent so what makes Maradona still superior to this day is the WC won and having won stuff with inferior teams compared to Messi's trams. Fucking fact
Now tell me comparing these 2 is the same as comparing Klose to Van Basten
>>66300716
Maradona of course
>>66300800
"For the world of football, Messi is a treasure because he is a role model for children around the worldโฆ Messi will be the player to win the most Ballons dโOr in history. He will win five, six, seven. He is incomparable. Heโs in a different league." - Johan Cruyff
>>66300800
>Now tell me comparing these 2 is the same as comparing Klose to Van Basten
One of them has a World Cup.
A World Cup trumps any argument
>>66300895
Is it only England where quotes from other footballers are considered the highest form of evidence?
Messi may be the best player ever, but he'll never be the GOAT.
>>66300937
"Diego [Maradona] filled us with emotions. But between the cracks, without doubt, Messi is better than Maradona." - Diego Simeone
>>66300628
that's because it was pre bosman, so clubs had way less foreigners in them
>>66300935
>A World Cup trumps any argument
are you telling me that Llorente is better than Maradona?
Are you telling me that Uruguay has been a better football nation than England since the very begining?
Are you telling me that Deutschland has never been better than Italy?
>>66300800
>>66300800
Messi's Argentina isn't superior in ANY way to Maradona's Argentina. I already stated they won 2 Copa Americas in that period WITHOUT Maradona.
Meanwhile, take a look how this Argentina is doing without Messi in WC qualifications now. :^)
Also, are you the guy with bullshit Getafe analogy? You didn't respond to the fact that Napoli had the power to break worlds transfer record for him.
>>66301069
>Uruguay has been a better football nation than England since the very begining
That's just a fact though
>>66301125
yes I know, I'm just trying to get him confused
>>66300935
>A world cup trumps any argument
Holy shit you're retarded kid
The Maradona massacre continues.
>>66301251
>There are people who will look at this and STILL say Maradona is superior
Somebody stop it.
>>66301251
>counting super cups as trophies
cuck
>>66301272
Stats are literally contrary to understanding. Maradona's stats would be way more inflated if he played in a team as dominant as current Barca against what was such a devaluated Liga for many years. But Maradona played in a Villareal-tier team in the most stacked league ever against teams like Sacchi's Milan, Platini's Juventus or the Inter of the germans, and that's without counting how good the rest of the teams were.
Stats only show what a player achieved within a context, they don't -determine- quality. Quality comes first, and then in a favorable context the stats will start to reflect it.
>>66301381
>played in a Villareal-tier team
Can Villarreal afford a world record transfer fee?
>>66301251
The goat is peaking after the same number of years that the crack whore washed out. My sides.
>>66301432
Idiot. Stop pretending you don't get it. He means QUALITY-WISE
>>66301432
If the world record is laughably small then maybe.
Besides, we're talking about football, not economics. It doesn't matter how much Napoli paid for Maradona if that money didn't mean they had a stacked squad (they didn't).
>>66298206
The world cup is by far the most prestigious prize in the world of football by quite a mile so international is not just something to be ignored.
>>66301381
>Stats don't count when I don't want them to
I understand you're Italian and have to stick up for another non-white but come on lad, the game is up.
>>66301381
Not to mention Messi's era is so much easier for forwards in almost every way
>>66301461
Can Villarreal's defence concede just 21 goals in 30 games with 14 clean sheets?
>>66301496
There is no such thing as a laughably small world record. It's small compared to now but back then it was more than any club has ever spent
>>66301540
One player can not be held responsible for the shortcomings of his team mates. Messi carried a shit team to the final, yet his inability to carry them AGAIN is what matters apparently.
>>66298041
i'm 29, but I suspect nobody else is. ANd there wasn't really too much soccer to view here until the last 10 years or so, so i've never personally seen madonna play.
>>66301247
Are you really as retarded as you sound? The WC argument is valid only when comparing like for like
>>66301070
Maradona's Napoli wasn't full of stars. End of. Messi plays in a team full of other talented players. Big difference. He simply wouldn't have the same achievements and stats in an inferior team like Villareal or Getafe
Maradona is the GOAT until Messi wins a WC and a CL with a mid-tier team
>>66301618
>team like Villareal or Getafe
Napoli weren't like Villarreal or Getafe. Napoli could afford a world record transfer fee and had a defence that was keeping a clean sheet in almost half of the games they played.
86-87 Napoli had a better defensive record than this season's Barcelona
itt romantics choose maradona and stats babbies choose messi
>>66301496
>10.48 million dollars in 1984 is a laughably small
Luigi pls
>It doesn't matter how much Napoli paid for Maradona if that money didn't mean they had a stacked squad (they didn't).
They weren't stacked, but they certainly were a legitimate contender in 1987. It wasn't Maradona + 10 guys who fought relegation in 83. 8/11 players with most minutes played in that season came with/after Maradona. They restructured the whole team to make them competitive and they had the money to do so.
>>66301650
Villareal isn't in the same league as Barcelona as far as QUALITY goes. Do you fucking understand this simple concept? Do you get it? That Napoli, as far as quality goes, is comparable to Villareal. If you don't get this, kill yourself because you're too retarded to live
>>66301540
>The world cup is by far the most prestigious prize in the world of football
because of his rarity, by quality & elitism it's behind champions league
>>66301747
>That Napoli, as far as quality goes, is comparable to Villareal
But you're just making shit up. They were a very good team, especially on the defensive side.
>>66301756
Yet faggots think that winning 1000 Champions League titles with a team like Barcelona has any value. Big fucking achievement. Go and win one with Leicester
>>66301803
I give up
>>66301803
Villareal is a very good team and their defense up until 2 fixtures ago had a better record than Barcelona.
I didn't say Napoli was a Serie B team. But they were clearly, CLEARLY below top 4 material. Like Liverpool in the Suarez season.
Besides I'm not even making an argument about how Maradona carried it by himself or anything, I'm just responding to the laughable pic with goal stats that tries to imply Messi is better because he puts out more numbers without considering that every single player ever puts up 10x more numbers in that Barca than they would anywhere else. Maradona also had a near 1.00 goal average back here in Argentinos Jrs, he made 43 goals in 45 matches one year and was top scorer four consecutive years, and that's when he was 16-20yo. And Argentinos Jrs is actually a relegation-tier side. In Napoli he had to play like a CM to make the entire team work, he couldn't afford to sit in the last 30 meters and have his teammates bring the ball to him like this Barca does 50+ times per match.
>>66301747
Napoli then are more comparable to Atletico 5 years ago than Villareal. IF you had any understanding of football you'd understand this.
Now stop embarrassing yourself with your football illiteracy and go lose weight.
>>66301618
>Maradona's Napoli wasn't full of stars
It wasn't Barcelona-tier for sure but it still was a legitimate contender in 87. Are you aware of other arrivals that came during that period? Do you realize Maradona finished 8th in his first season there? Wonder why?
>Messi plays in a team full of other talented players
Sure he did: Marcos Rojo, Martin Demichelis, Lucas Biglia, Ezequiel Lavezzi, Gonzalo Higuain, Enzo Perez, Wilson Palacio. Stacked as fuck m8, a complete miracle how they didn't win that final. :^)
>He simply wouldn't have the same achievements and stats in an inferior team like Villareal or Getafe
That's right, just like Maradona didn't have them in his first season at Napoli. Because, you know, it takes a TEAM to achieve something.
>Maradona is the GOAT until Messi wins a WC
Messi doesn't need a particular team trophy to show his superiority to Maradona. Don't you find it intriguing that the only upper edge Maradona has over Messi comes from the fact that Jorge Burruchaga stepped up to the task in that final?
>and a CL with a mid-tier team
Why would he need to achieve something where even Maradona failed miserably?
>>66301932
>every single player ever puts up 10x more numbers in that Barca than they would anywhere else
Who are David Villa, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Alexis Sanchez, Thierry Henry
>>66301618
>Continues to ignore Messi carrying his shitty Argentina team to the finals
kek
I really wanted Argentina to win the 2014 WC, I wanted to say in 40 years that I lived to watch the undisputed GOAT.
Messi ruined our lives
>>66301829
yeah, how Messi dare to go trough all La Masia academy back when Barcelona was barely better than an english club and become an elite player surrounded by elite players from the same generation
such a cheeting cunt
>>66301618
>and a CL with a mid-tier team
do you realise that before Messi, Barcelona had less CL than Nottingham Forest right?
>>66297701
pls stop bullying maradona
>>66302086
more like Germany did it
> taking Puskas WC in 1954
> taking Cruyff WC in 1974
> taking Messi WC in 2014
they are probably going to take England WC by 2034
>>66301756
Professional sports is about entertainment and the champions league doesn't come near being as entertaining as the world cup. I have been a barca "fan" since ronaldinho and co but I have pretty much lost interest in them since them not winning is surprising, not the other way around.
>Best team wins waaaah
It's not wrong but it is just plain boring. I wonder how they can muster the energy to celebrate winning la liga, the season is pretty much just a formality nowadays.
>>66303004
>13 out of 20 World Cups were won by Brazil, Germany or Italy
>17 out of 20 World Cups were won by Brazil, Germany, Italy or the host nation
>17 out of 20 World Cups had at least one of Brazil, Germany or Italy in the final
>Every single World Cup after the first one in 1930 had at least one of Brazil, Germany or Italy in the semi finals
>muh world cup unpredictability
>>66300263
The last part is spot on, Maradonna was a party animal who just wanted to have fun which is why lots of people liked him, he had flaws and weaknesses. messi just rocks up, rolls teams over with incredible displays of close control and technique and just walks off, back to reading a book or whatever. he seems more machine than human at times
