>mlels
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>mlels
>American soccer fans
>soccer
>intimidating
lol
>my little sawker
TSUUUU
it's all so...gay
>>64260822
>that logo
I guess they just don't give a crud.
>>64260822
>hooligans
>twitter account
>>64260844
Ultras 2.0 desu senpai
>>64260822
Bankers are cunts tbhonest.
>>64260842
Can't fault then for wanting to be a real team, albeit a shit one
>American domestic soccer fans
>>64260803
It can be, Turks, South Americans, Eastern Europeans etc, will literally knife you or shoot you for wearing the shirt of an opposing team.
North American soccer fans are basically just LARPers.
MAH LIL SAWKER
>Inb4 a triggered fedora gets mad and attempting to insult "euroboos"
>fc dallas
>not dallas fc
triggered
why must they ruin a sport i love?
>>64260709
look Mohammed, just because we don't stone women in between halves doesn't mean you have to throw bantz
>New York boys(girls)
>>64260709
Who gives a fuck you stupid Swedish Muslim.
>Americans don't embrace football
>Give them shit
>Americans try and start their own football culture
>Give them shit
>>64262027
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R08t3luF5aI
i don't give a single crud
>>64261365
>M.. MUH BANKERS!
mmmm... dole scum tears...
>>64262584
soldiers should get paid as much as footballers
>>64260709
>yurop will laugh at this without realizing that they act the exact same way and that my little sawker teams are only trying to follow their example
>>64262084
This desu
>>64262084
truth
![luis-figo-pig-head[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Rvb1wnq.png "luis-figo-pig-head[1].png")
>>64262615
if you say so
>>64262584
Yes, the 2008 financial crash was caused by dole scroungers. Good goy.
>>64262084
It's fucking embarrassing you yank apologist nonce
It's 'hipster' americans trying to emulate football culture from other places and failing miserably, people wouldn't be laughing if they were treating it like they treat their other sports and not this objectively embarrassing crap that misses the point so hard
It just stinks of tryhard fedoras that probably think they're above normal american culture
Your team will always be a joke until they have a cup
>>64262688
Maybe we just like watching a match without having to get up at 6am
at least we dont have rich people inflating our ticket prices yet either
>>64262688
Imagine caring this much about sport being played half a world away.
Why are americans so racist?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/32rrwi/my_experience_with_the_american_outlaws_rant/
>>64262688
>people wouldn't be laughing if they were treating it like they treat their other sports
on multiple occasions I have heard yuros shit on the atmosphere in american football, saying that there is no passion
which one is it
>>64262741
>not enjoying some nationalist bantz with your bros
fuck off huehue
>>64262741
This is just good banter
>>64262688
>it's fucking embarrassing
You'd be saying it's just as embarrassing if they just sat there taking selfies like they do with baseball or clap in unison everytime there's an stoppage in handegg.
Do you think a unique football culture is just going to spring up out of fucking nowhere? It's good that they're doing this stuff. It is cringe a lot of the time. Yes some of their chants make no fucking sense (see >>64262709). But by doing this stuff, they'll find out what works and what doesn't in American stadiums.
Why do you even care anyways? You're going to shit all over them regardless of what they do.
I think soccer is pretty boring to watch, so I don't care, but I don't see what the big deal is.
>muh I act like an idiot in support of my yuro club because people been doin it for a long time
Well it started somewhere, you fool. Also, is sp really so degenerate that it holds knifing opposing fans to a high standard? let's be realistic: none of you pussies has the guts to do anything other than yell in a big group.
>>64262882
Stop falling for the bait south africa
>>64262975
>Also, is sp really so degenerate that it holds knifing opposing fans to a high standard?
It's less cancerous to humanity than these faggots tbf
>Atlanta United FC
>>64263092
Yes but my point is you're closer to be one of these people than someone who knifes opposing fans. Just because your team plays in England doesn't change that.
I think England feels threatened that MLS might have better talent in the future. We have been seeing MLS slowly rising while the BPL is slowly fading (Chelsea almost being relegated, ManU not ever in the champions league, Liverpool not the giants they once were, arsenal's old manager the only thing keeping arsenal competent, its stars go onto bigger and better careers/achievements in other leagues). Soccer is their main sport where it is seen as a past time in our country. They may ridicule us but deep down they know that if anyone has the potential to make them irrelevant in the English speaking world, it would be America.
>>64261714
>steal macedonias flag
>>64263126
Just lmaoing at your life 2bh, I watched the MLS final and it was literally league 1 tier.
>>64263092
>>64263118
Its more obnoxious that middle class hipsters willingly choose to emulate fans who are either poor drunk assholes or violent slavs/turks.
>>64263118
I don't know any design student hipsters who produce fancy posters about how they intimidate other fans with pictures of woman and children on them and I'd be very surprised if I ever met one
Our football culture is centuries old. It doesn't need to try that hard
This is how I imagine all MLS fans, just hipster social outcasts, stealing chants and half-heartedely butchering them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y70kMNozInY
>>64263126
>This table
What am I looking at here
>>64260709
>soccer
holy shit this """"""sport"""""" is so fucking gay
>>64262769
>saying that there is no passion
>which one is it
Different opinions from different people. Treat soccer like our other sports and who gives a shit about what the euros think. Trying to 'appropriate' euros culture and incorporate it into our league is what makes it cringe worthy. MLS soccer culture needs to sprout up organically, exactly like it did in Europe.
>>64263230
>American """""banter"""""
>>64263213
Man I go to Union games and plenty of people can't stand those guys.
Sons of Ben are like maybe 10% of the crowd though.
>>64262671
Oooft that told
>>64260709
fookin amerilards, everything they touch turns to shit
>>64261365
>>64262671
*tips*
>>64263222
the """""""english"""""" """""""premier""""""" league's finest
Shut up, Ukucks, you're really pissing me off.
I'm asking myself when europeans will realise their atmosphere is also shitty and nothing but try hard plastic
I still don't know how these teams make money. Is it just all Chicanos at the games? No one I know ever watches or goes. I can't even tell you how many teams there are, if the rules are the exact same as in the rest of the world...
>we don't text during the game
Fuck off
>>64263279
>the bankers are innocent
>it was all the proletariat's fault
epic :^)))
>"intimidating" other fans
>not just getting drunk and fighting them
MLS fans are just pussies tbqh
>>64263222
I think a table of CL matches by countries, taken after arsenal and Chelsea lost their 2nd matches but before United and City won their 2nd matches
>>64263308
most money in top clubs come from sponsors and tv deals. Membership and attendance is marginal income.
>>64262741
Literally back to /reddit/ you go
shit like this is why im glad my dad is mexican and i grew up watching mexican soccer and not mls
>>64263306
There is no "European atmosphere". It differs from country to country or at least a group of countries close to each other.
Some of it I find cringeworthy like a lot of English chants, and then other stuff like the mass organised displays by slavs and turks sends chills down my spine.
>>64263126
>I think England feels threatened that MLS might have better talent in the future.
MLS will never be the best league in North America, let alone being the same quality as EPL.
>>64263126
>Chelsea almost being relegated
>ManU not ever in the champions league
>Liverpool not the giants they once were
what on earth makes yout think that this would be detrimental to the EPL?
if, for example, Chelsea were to be relegated, that means there's 20 clubs that performed better than them, or if ManU doesn't even make the CL there would be another club in its place, everything would literally stay the same in terms of english football quality.
I've seen brits bang on about how stupid americans are, but I thought it was a meme like the ">argentina >white" thing, but holy kek you're retarded.
>>64263319
It's the monopoly of government of issuing money that creates such bubbles. But keep using marxist vocabulary. That makes you sound so radical and sophisticated.
Well, brits talking about heritage, passion and atmosphere can go fuck themselves.
Your clubs are owned by dirty arabs or russians, your stadium names sound like they are middle easters bazaars and for a ticket that costs £100 you get library atmosphere, no beer and people demanding to "sit down and shut up because they want to enjoy the game"
>>64263342
MLS teams get most of their cash from attendance. TV deals aint shit here.
>>64263378
>this Argie unironically believes he's white
>>64263378
>Being England's cuckold 30 years later
Never change arjentina
>>64263126
Record breaking TV deal says otherwise. Something ridiculous like the bottom club will get more money next season than last seasons champions. That's why you now get shitty clubs like palace being able to buy players from PSG.
>>64263396
So you agree that it's the political and business elite's fault and not the average person.
Another in a long line of lels from this joke of a football nation.
>>64263397
At least with Mlels I can get a ticket for 20$, get shitfaced, and watch awful soccer with my friends.
>>64263396
>banks create incredibly dangerous loans
>people use those loans to buy houses they can't afford
>housing prices get absolutely ridiculous
>people can't resell them to help pay off their loans and continue growing their wealth
>banks end up getting bailed out of those loans through tax payer dollars anyways
2008 was quite a year
>>64263397
>but m8 we invented kicky-wicky
>>64263421
it's the nigs and mexis fault for taking out loans they know they couldn't pay
>>64263429
This is the only justification needed
>>64263378
>Argentina
>white
Isn't a meme, though.
>Although statistically not significant enough sample size to be a nationwide projection, a study on 246 unrelated male individuals from eight provinces of three Argentinean regions using ancestry-sensitive DNA showed a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%);
Argentina is also the country that purchases the most blonde hair dye per capita in the world, I believe.
>have actually spent time in argentina
>>64263443
First of all stop your retarded racial simplifications, secondly if you're in the business of lending money and you lend to people who obviously can't afford to pay it back, that's your fault.
>>64263443
>white people didn't take out loans on mcmansions in Florida
ok kid
>>64263429
Its bit of a meme desu, you can get tickets for premier league games for like £30-£50 which isn't that bad, even teams in Germany charge that much, I went to a Hamburg match last year and it cost like 50 euros. Bayern charge a lot too unless you're in their incredibly small ultras area that is permanently sold out.
>>64263402
>TV deals aint shit here.
Not true. The average for the mls is $90M per season, which is quite a lot a more than 90% of european teams. For reference Barcelona and Madrid get 140M per season. I'm sure they also get plenty of money from sponsors.
>The league is now in the first season of its new eight-year deals with Fox, ESPN and Univision, which pay a combined $90 million per year on average, triple the old payout.
>>64263477
the government forced them to let poor nigs and illegals take out loans because
>muh equality
>>64263475
>Although statistically not significant enough sample size to be a nationwide projection
>from eight provinces
basically cherrypicking the mestizos and admiting it.
well done m8
>>64263510
That's not at all what happened, but keep being distracted by race instead of looking up at the corporate asshole taking a big fat shit on you.
Why does mls trigger foreigners and euroboos so much? Why can't I support my local team without insecure people telling me why its shit while they watch a team they have no connection with on the tv
Do people act this autistic when foreigners watch their lower league teams?
>>64263577
There's really two questions here:
1. Why do non Americans think MLS supporter culture is so shit?
2. Why do they post about it so much whenever MLS is mentioned?
Answers:
1. MLS supporter groups and clubs usually try to adopt the superficial elements of foreign support withotu really understanding the meaning of them or how to execute them properly, which leads to them looking ridiculous/cringeworthy e.g. "I believe that we will win" and calling yourself an ultra when you're an overweight middle class dad who goes to games with his little kids.
2. A lot of people on /sp/ have severe social issues that make them sperg out and attack things they don't like.
>>64263577
it's not the league m8, although the level is pretty much shit, nobody cares about it.
it's the cringy fans.
>>64262124
what???
>>64263430
The real problem was the ratings agencies. Yes I realize they're all in bed with each other, but there will always be a market for subprime housing loans. The problem is that ratings agencies were basing their ratings on data and projections that made the debt seem much safer than it was. This is partly due to the fact that they would come up with intentional and/or subconscious excuses for not including certain data sets in their projections. For instance, they might say, "oh, the history of the Great Depression should have no bearing on current projections because a) our data for that time isn't complete and b) shit was really different back then." Eventually you narrow America down to the last 40 years or so when everything was up up up except for a few little blips caused by outside forces (like wars or oil embargo). You're basically walking into the room with the assumption that America can't cause itself a depression in this day and age. Naturally, no one wants to be the guy to go against that gravy train narrative.
Anyone feel free to correct anything I've said.
>>64263170
to be fair that was a particularly bad game even by MLS standards. Watch highlights of the playoffs between FC Dallas and Portland, that was some exciting shit and i'm not even a big soccer fan
>be me
>going through channels to find some matches
>portland timbers vs whoever
>cutting wood with chainsaw as goal celebration
>mfw GOAT soccer team
![man-sour-expression-8685556[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SvIUABL.jpg "man-sour-expression-8685556[1].jpg")
>>64263213
That was tough to watch
>>64263577
the only thing that triggers me is "Real Salt Lake".
What the hell. Why not Salt Lake FC, Moroni Boys or the Utah Polygamists?
You don't have a king. Or is it the "real" salt lake and not the fake one?
(Houston "Dynamo", D.C. "United" and "Sporting" Kansas are bad too, but not as cringeworthy as Real Salt Lake)
>>64263308
i go to san jose earthquakes games, probably the smallest market in the whole league and most Friday/weekend games are sold out or close to it.
>some American club wins the Northern American CL
>they have to play and face Argentine/Brazilian fans
I'd like to see them playing the hooligan there
>>64263793
what the fuck are you talking about, they would never face each other in that situation.
do soccer fans actually think chants intimidate the players, or make their own players try harder?
is there a more delusional thing in sports fandom?
>>64263793
they should just play the Libertadores.
>40 white hipster guys trying to breath in la Paz while singing about not giving a crud
>>64263805
clubs world cup?
ITT : Euro guys thinking they're doing a better job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeJjTHCN1jg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq7nW5hmOQc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVwT_Kt46aw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZTAK_fGitY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBeeZVd6urI
>>64263510
wow you're literally getting shat on then laughed at by corporate america and eating every bit of it.
>>64263807
It does have an effect if its done right, with all 4 sides screaming and shouting, players on the pitch can't talk to each other, one thing you don't see on TV is just how much the captain or players call out to each other on the pitch to warn them or get them in the right position etc. It also gives a huge boost in confidence and optimism to the home team
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAdGCj4TTyI
>>64263510
>illegals
>taking out loans
you're obviously from alabama or some southern shit hole aren't you?
>>64263851
>perris saynt jermaine
>>64263851
Brit "fans" are well known pussies and casuals, they don't count
>>64263743
Portland are my American team solely because I hear they piss of other other people with their liberal ways.
I don't think I've ever watched one of their games.
>>64263548
yes it is, its sjws like you who are ruining this country by being blind to how minorities are the cancer killing this once great land.
>>64263860
Right, but in a babby stadium like Leicester has, chants are going to have a much different effect than in that Galatasaray game. You can only make so much noise.
>>64263849
they would have to beat 2 clubs before facing the south american one, and that includes the european one.
so there's basically no chance of that happening.
America lost to a chinese team this week in the club world cup.
>>64263937
They could win one and lost to the european one (with the south american losing their semi-final)
>>64263913
Am I being baited?
>>64263937
their fans would be sharing the same city with latin american fans
if they were actual hoolingans like they claim to be, they'd be at least singing in the streets
A fight would be inevitable
Reminder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dAWJ6Ex_Kw
>>64263952
still a very specific situation m8, chances are, that's not gonna happen.
and if yours happens, I seriously doubt that there'll be any actual fans in the stadium for a third/fifth place match, it'd be just chinese people.
>>64263913
Trump 2016
>>64263924
Of course it won't have the same effect with the communication difficulties but if you have thousands of fans cheering you on it does make a difference, it makes you feel more confident, feeds your ego a bit etc. the thing with sports is you always play better when you think you're good, if you start doubting yourself you end up playing shit. Besides it's just a bit of fun when drunk.
>>64260709
>we are the biggest sport on the planet
Can MLS fans just be sports fans? Why does everything have to be about how special you are for watching soccer?
>>64263913
>IT'S THE DAMN BLACK PEOPLE AND MEXICANS!!1
lol
>>64262084
>>Americans try and start their own football culture
>>Give them shit
They aren't trying to start their own football culture, though. They're just copying yours. Just look at that bald guy. He's wearing a scarf. In the middle of the summer. In fucking Dallas.
>>64263347
>glad my dad is mexican
b8
Someone post the video of them chanting the referee's a wanker outside the ground before the game.
>>64263913
why does /pol/ always come here? do you just get tired of circlejerking over hating black people and feel the need to share your shitty, incorrect opinions with the rest of 4chan? no one gives a shit in the first place, you're literally doing nothing but making a fool of yourself on a Uzbeki air duster forum.
>>64263126
You're embarrassing the rest of us please... please stop
>>64264090
This one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPwLncJDDss
>>64260709
How is this allowed in Texas?
Don't they get their asses beat, hwat is wrong with them?
>>64264107
holy fuck i'm physically cringing
>>64262741
>tfw I've been to a mexico game and they are literally worse than that shit
I mean getting told to go back to mexico is one thing but throwing bags of piss at each other is another
More NYCFC shenanigans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDtFCk3Uzxo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvX3TW1EpAg
>Unironically fighting over an energy drink team and a half year old farm team
>>64264107
I'm glad that most of these "fans" probably don't follow NFL, MLB, or NBA
They'd rather be European than American
>>64264107
its beautiful
>>64264107
Yeah. It's not the fact they're chanting it, it's that the fucking game isn't even on. It's only used when the ref makes a shit call during the game.
>>64264107
>>64264205
>Saying "wankers" when they're American
oh my GOD
>>64264223
>tfw will never start a the referee is a nigger chant
>>64262584
>Having such a feeble sized brain that you read the Daily Mail
kek
KEK
>>64264125
>>64264180
>>64264188
>>64264205
>>64264223
The people chanting are Toronto fans
>Canadians
>>64264175
Holy fucking shit this is so god damn autistic
Why do liberals ruin everything they touch?
>>64260844
Watch what you say, those guys are hardcore, might even downvote your tweets!
>>64264260
I feel just a little bit better
just a little bit
>europeans will never have something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0brSCUfINA
>>64264260
we still share half the responsibility it is MLS.
>>64264252
I'm going to assume that you were signing off your post with your name but it got wordfiltered
p.s the daily mail has terrible journalistic standards but everyone konws that you dummy
>>64264011
>who are you
I was seriously expecting groundskeeper willie to take them to school.
>>64264345
Caged monkeys? London zoo m8.
>>64264261
what the fuck does your political leaning have to do with it? how do you know they're liberal? because its exclusively liberals that watch soccer?
>>64263577
>""""""Real"""""" Salt Lake
Every fucking time
What's next ? Sporting Phoenix ? San Francisco Saint-Germain ? Atlético Mineapolis ?
W I F E ' S S O N
I
F
E
'
S
S
O
N
>>64263807
It can work when it's done properly.
>>64263577
It triggers me because soccer fucking sucks and if I wanted to watch the sport I'd watch the top quality of it.
Sport bars show foreign games, not shitty MLS.
>>64264460
Minnesota United FC is a thing
>>64264460
they already have sporting kansas city
>SF Saint-Germain
lel'd
>>64260790
>>64264107
lasted about ten seconds the first time I tried this. nope.
>>64264028
It's probably a reaction to the anti-football attitude some americans have.
>>64264538
>Using the same name as a team that already exists
Literally why?
That never happens in any other sports league.
You wouldn't see a new MLB team called the Yankees.
>>64262084
/r/ing a pic of the euro getting mad at the american liking american football then euro soccer than MLS
>>64264568
DC United
Minnesota United FC
Atlanta United FC
Also its very possible that the Miami teams gets named "United" as well.
>>64264568
its the USL affiliate of the new MLS club. just like Seattle Sounders have Seattle Sounder II as their USL team.
>>64264585
Source first?
>>64264601
If it was the affiliate of DC that would make sense, like the Yankees minor league team called the Yankees.
>>64264585
too much tit
Does anyone have the pictures of the literal kuck Orlando fans?
>>64263765
i think because real madrid built the training facilities . Also city name FC is so fucking lazy and gay as a name
I don't know if this is still the case, but fucking no one went to FC Dallas games 3 years ago. That place was a ghost town when I went.
>>64264610
amanda love
>>64264649
Still is
>>64264649
apparently the arena is like 30 miles outside of downtown dallas near a fuck ton of toll highways
>>64264638
Yeah what makes Baseball team names great was that many of the original teams nick names came from Newspapers and stopped being generic
"Boston Americans" for being in the American league
>>64264099
I'm only stating facts, meanwhile you're distracted by your feefees
still annoys me when Europeans say american sports fans aren't "real fans."
CFB fans are
proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAPja6hFPc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IqNU9DSLCM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pux7C5ryAyU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqo4cKCsTcQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJHL-hZOqnQ
>>64264749
how cringy
>>64260803
I once fucked my own dad, you dickface
Arriba el América!!!!
>>64264749
that is because college sports teams are not corporations and they dont demand a new stadium every 10 years or threaten to move
>>64262741
>>64264744
>ITS le blax and le mexikans!1 tahts the only reason the economy is bad
>facts
i bet you don't even know what a sub prime mortgage is.
>>64264749
i just cant take a bunch of 20 year old semi-pros playing football seriously
>>64264879
*tips respectfully*
![Hh76aoY[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/dargLzd.jpg "Hh76aoY[1].jpg")
>>64264834
>>64264879
but the NFL has cucked america into making CFB the minor leagues for the NFL. the CFL is more semi pro since there are only 6 teams
>>64264749
https://youtu.be/of7ZSx94V-8
>>64264929
what's fedora about that? does not watching U-19 soccer make me fedora too?
>>64264994
>cucked
i dont think you know what that word means
>>64265051
>i dont think you know what that word means
i bet your dad does
>>64265064
my dad died when i was 11
>>64264749
>tomahawk chop
It's cool, but I always feel like it's a little racist.
>>64262027
>N...Y...C ***CLAP***
>***Songs not on this list may still be sung during the game***
i fucking hate american soccer tryhards. i enjoy watching the sport but there's no reason to try to force a culture we don't have with this stupid shit.
>>64265100
>>64264749
>constantly yelling WOOO
>not even moving
it's not the being fans part what people usually criticize, it's the shit atmosphere.
your atmosphere is literally vuvuzela tier.
not even so actually, the saffers atleast move.
>>64263765
United is probably the best possible moniker for a team based in Washington DC. Atlanta has no such excuse.
>>64264175
For a couple of months I had that "City Retirement Home" banner Red Bulls fans made set as my wallpaper
>>64265190
>not even moving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeH78UmlscU
>>64264749
That feel when I am actually in the band in the first video for FSU.
Played trombone there for two years, that was still one of my favorite games.
>>64262084
Thanks for being fair m8
>>64265275
I find those college fight songs really cringey but at least the atmosphere is decent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nyg4WLh7IU
>>64265275
>coreographic movements for 5 seconds
dude, your atmosphere is pathetic, get over it and enjoy your stuff, stop caring so much over other countries opinions.
>>64265081
So he cucked you out of having a father.
>>64263027
He's 100% right nonetheless
>>64263378
haha rused
>>64265333
constant yelling isn't fit for football as would distract your team while they are on offense. It therefore only makes sense to do it when your team is on defense. In soccer the game is more free flowing so it doesn't matter
>>64265275
>stealing 12s from seattle
>>64265331
I find the drums and flags cringey cuz muh MLS
>>64265388
>constant yelling isn't fit for football as would distract your team while they are on offense. It therefore only makes sense to do it when your team is on defense
if this is true then that's one awful flaw your sport has right there.
>>64265392
lol seattle stole 12th man from a and m, 12th man at a&m has been around longer than the Seahawks. unless this is a meme then nvm
>>64265437
the fact that you didn't know that sort of invalidates your opinion. You don't even make sense, my black friend.
>>64265506
what?
if the public has in any way the chance to interfere in a game like chanting to change who has the advantage then it's a flaw.
it's like in actual football, when we chant racist stuff the ref has to stop the game and fans started to use this to stop the momentum of the rivals, that is clearly flaw.
if you disagree you are literally a retard.
