is taxation theft? is it extortion?
>>81411632
idk anon im a dumb neet
such things r too deep for me
all i'm good at is solving captchas
>>81411765
me too desu
>>81411632
b(l)ump(kin)
>>81411913
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfRq7Rc86V8
i think we'll be okay
we've got it going on
we have things to offer
>>81411632
Would you pay it if you didn't go to jail?
>>81412391
depends
>>81411632
It's only theft if you're an edgy memester
>>81412439
Expand.
Necessary evil.
If you conduct business somewhere and rely on that somewhere to be safe to perform business, certain sacrifices must be made to keep that safety.
>>81411632
Not really, the people benefit from most of it. In an ideal world you should only have to pay for what benefits you but you can't because it just wouldn't work.
>>81412878
It's only an evil if it's coerced. But people do want domestic security (police), foreign security (army) and a neutral system to manage conflicts (courts), but what people don't these three things almost any human on Earty can agree to pay for that, except anarchist, it's only when it goes beyond or is miss used that it becomes evil.
>>81412558
argument?
>>81412593
i would donate depending on the situation
>>81413151
>It's only an evil if it's coerced.
Who would pay taxes if, ultimately, they knew there was no consequences not to?
>But people do want domestic security (police), foreign security (army) and a neutral system to manage conflicts (courts),
Oh you posted Friedman before I had to. Good leaf.
>when it goes beyond or is miss used that it becomes evil.
And what contrast do we use to gauge if it has gone beyond?
This is why democracy is a necessity, because at worst we can argue it was the people who decided to stretch government and that they're then responsible for all the inevitable abuse.
So the people decide to vote for welfare states, my only issue with this is when the media redirects the blame for the resultant failure, in this situation the people fail to learn and necessarily will repeat their mistakes.
>>81411632
at this point, its really theft
We have outsourced the issuance of currency to the for profit corporation known as the Federal Reserve. They lend our government money on the guarantee of our tax dollars. We give the taxes to the IRS, the IRS uses them to pay back some of the interest on these massive loans and the cycle continues.
Our country has tried many times to pry away from the grasp of the big bankers but every president who attempted it was assassinated, less Andrew Jackson. To get back at Jackson, whose last words on leaving office were "I Killed The Bank", they stuck his ass on the $20, probably one of the most common notes around, next to the $1
>>81413771
>Who would pay taxes if, ultimately, they knew there was no consequences not to?
Except they know there are consequences not to, not jail but lack of security. If you don't pay the hairdresser you don't get a haircut, if you don't pay taxes, the police won't protect you.
>Oh you posted Friedman before I had to. Good leaf.
Never read him actually., I was basing it on pic related.
>And what contrast do we use to gauge if it has gone beyond?
Consent of the governed. Also a republic with a constitution.
And the people didn't decide to stretch government, they decided to coerce others to pay for a bigger government. Which is why I think democracy and politics should be extremely limited. For example, let's the people want free healthcare, they vote for that then the government adds it on a tax form, so let's say you pays 10k in taxes, rather than just pay it and let the government handle it, you can decide if it goes to the police, the army, the courts, "free" healthcare, education or whatever. If we remove coercion then the government will be under a little more under the same market forces as the private sector and if the politicians do misuse the taxes then they'd be liable to prison for fraud or something similar.
>>81413395
You have none.
>>81412558
typical prole response
>>81412593
Taxation is theft outside of a very few necessary items, like roads and a working power source.
Unless you can afford to do so for such items, then taxation is a good idea for anything that has too high of initial costs (like power plants and roads) or stuff that the community OVERWHELMINGLY wants (like a harbor maintenance crew for a fishing town).
Anything for a social program or economic program is always a confab that steal money form the industrious and rich to the poor and lazy. This is generally done by politicians who either benefit from this redistribution (through "legitimizing" their necessity in government), or because they actually believe that this theft is a good idea (either by pleading that we need to take care of the poor and lazy or some other reason).
>>81411632
No, no.
Next thread.
>>81414799
>Except they know there are consequences not to, not jail but lack of security.
You absolutely can't expect everyone to follow the categorical imperative.
>If you don't pay the hairdresser you don't get a haircut, if you don't pay taxes, the police won't protect you.
This is completely unenforceable and therefore is a textbook bad legal stance.
>Never read him actually., I was basing it on pic related.
He's credited for the "goddamnit government you had three jobs, three simple fucking jobs" idea.
>Consent of the governed. Also a republic with a constitution.
Which is democracy and with a corrupt media tends to welfare states therefore governments that overstep their bounds.
>Which is why I think democracy and politics should be extremely limited.
I hope you're not arguing against democracy simply because you disagree with the result.
>For example, let's the people want free healthcare, they vote for that then the government adds it on a tax form, so let's say you pays 10k in taxes, rather than just pay it and let the government handle it, you can decide if it goes to the police, the army, the courts, "free" healthcare, education or whatever.
Which is another layer of convolution to our tax system. In my opinion, this is why there's tax incentives for charity, that is you literally pay less tax if you collect receipts from charities you donated to. If you want to fund education or healthcare you simply need to find the right charities.
We already have this voluntary tax system you talk about, it's just not so built into the legal system.
>if the politicians do misuse the taxes then they'd be liable to prison for fraud or something similar.
They already are.
I like pointing out to people how close our current system is to every rationally arguable improvement already, but it's simply corrupted by corrupt people. There's already voluntarism (at least in Australia), but you have no idea how efficiently the money is used, ie for warlords or children.
Look /pol/. I think we can all agree that necessary shit like taxes for infrastructure, protection, safety and resources like power and water are all good uses of taxes if they aren't forced.
Social programs and redistribution programs are almost always con jobs just to support lazy or poor people
Taxation basically works like an extortion racket yet, just one with unusually fair terms. Every society that doesn't pay taxes got crushed by every society that did and their professional soldiers long ago.
Don't even start thinking about this subject OP, you'll sound like a whiny anarchist douche.
>>81411632
If you get something meaningful back, it isn't theft or extortion.
When it becomes something else is if you have a situation where the people paying the tax have little representation on how it is spent.
This is why paying into a smaller tax pool(like a state) is more fair to the taxpayer.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/H87T9XX.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>81411632
Do you support me being shot?
>>81411632
Tax is upkeep.
Copyright and patent protection is theft and extortion of the free market. Their idea is being protected with your tax dollars. All they have to do is pay a "one-time" fee and they make all their money back from extorting consumers with licensing.
In the interests of efficiency, I have decided to distill every argument I have ever had with your average statist, so that I can hand it out to those who argue that government is voluntary, if I don't like it I can leave, taxation is not violence, etc.
I thought this might also be of use to you, because life is short.
Me: Tell me, do you think that violence is wrong?
Statist: Yes, violence is wrong - except in self-defense.
Me: Agreed, except in self-defense. So tell me, how do you think that problems should be solved, if we should not use violence?
Statist: Well, I think that people should become more active in government, and that governments should do ABC, X, Y and Z.
Me: But how do you reconcile your objection to violence with your support of government programs, since government programs are paid for through taxation, which is coercive?
Statist: Huh? What are you talking about? Taxation is not coercive.
Me: Taxation is coercive, since if you do not pay your taxes, you are kidnapped at gunpoint and thrown in jail - where if you try to escape, you are shot.
http://www.strike-the-root.com/72/molyneux/molyneux4.html
Threadly reminder that camping on Bureau of Land Management owned land is free.
If you don't wish to pay for the upkeep society you're more than welcome to not participate and fuck off to the woods.
>>81416985
Self-defense isn't violence.
Violence is just a latin buzzword for "breaking the law" and can't be used for documenting a crime.
"Inciting violence" is politically correct term for "assault". "Violent speech" in the US doesn't exist outside indirectly transmitting saliva on someone or screaming at their ear at a physically damaging decibel level.
Assault = non-violent contact
Battery = violent contact
It's technically illegal (in the US) to go to jail for assault, but since the prison system is a private industry they bend the rules.
The Supreme Court ruled that "real threats" are not protected by the 1st Amendment, but that just means if there's enough evidence to detain you they can.
This becomes a problem thanks to Reagan tearing apart the mental health system of the US so instead of getting treatment you get jail time and/or a restraining order.
>>81418671
It's a free place to sleep only.
You can't hunt there without permit. Gathering is heavily restricted. You can't build there period. You can't litter period. You can't even shit or piss there without it being documented or you'll get thrown out.
>>81419323
>can't litter
>can't create problems that other people have to perform labor to fix
