What does /pol/ think of abortion?
Acceptable murder
>>80973960
It's immoral and should be reserved for special cases, such as real rape.
>>80973960
Actually changed my tune to this over the years. I think there's still space for the rape babies to be taken out to pasture, but on the whole abortion just seems like women (and their partners) dodging the consequences of their actions.
It used to be a last resort. Now days, it's a "right" and an easy way out for shit decisions.
>>80973960
Never enough abortions. /pol/ wants more, more, more.
It should be encouraged by anyone who isn't licensed to breed. ie poor single women on welfare.
Useful, but I'd prefer no more gibs and free sterilization to the poor
>>80973960
Not a fan of it but I do recognize it's utility.
Because these threads get hundreds of replies
As far as abortions for niggers and spics go, there are better options for controlling parasitical populations.
Options like welfare in exchange for sterilization.
>>80973960
I'm okay with it, but let's face it, yeah it is murder.
>premeditated killing of a human being
>>80973960
it's murder, and of the most innocent human beings possible.
>>80974042
why does it become moral to murder the child if the father was a rapist?
>>80973960
It's murder. It's murder even when the woman has been raped, it's obviously not the child's fault he's come to exist, but I would sort of understand people defending it in that case. But you have feminazis like Hillary defending it as the "woman's right to chose". I know it's the current year and all, but I don't personally think women have the right to kill their children for their own convenience.
>>80973960
it should be allowed for blacks but de legalized for whites.
abortion is a good thing
>>80974032
At least you're honest.
One of the few eugenic institutions in a mostly disgenic society.
>>80973960
It's ok, but let women who aborted wear a tattoo on the face, an A or something. Don't want to stick my dick in a graveyard.
>>80974986
You're assuming personhood to early in the developmental process.
>>80975704
What the fuck else would it be, a penguin?
>>80975704
the personhood angle is a red herring, it's wrong because they're human beings, not because they do or do not have personal agency.
>>80974771
The thing has a brain size of a fish, who gives a shit.
>>80974771
>allow rape to result in new people
>rapist genes have an edge over no rapist genes
>rape becomes more common and the genetic stock of a civilization declines further
It's not hard to figure it out.
>>80975986
rapist genes are probably pretty alpha tbqh
>>80974705
Well it's better to kill them when they have the brain size of a fish.
>>80975937
Personhood is the relevant criterion. An umputated arm is human cells. A transplant kidney or a frozen egg or a zygote can be human.
If there were nonhuman people (intelligent aliens, other intelligent beings created by God, genetically enhanced apes- doesn't matter) they would be moral patients although not human.
I think it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Just allow the niggers to abort as much as they want and ban it for whites unless it's endangering their life and the possibility of bearing more white children.
>>80975921
A clump of cells with some physiological processes, perhaps even some low level mental processes if far along enough in the process of development.
>>80973960
Abortion is evil. It is taking a life.
So why does that matter to you? Simple. If you can easily get rid of the most vulnerable and inconvenient then taking steps like euthansia and culling those who are sick or infirm are next.
"muh slippery slope" is not a good response because there IS clearly evidence that with a cheapining of value of life it WILL impact you somewhere along the way.
Look how the medical profession has been corrupted by (((you know who))) by making them administer "mercy killings". You don't think that is going to be abused? You have a grandmother that is rich and you are a scumbag who wants her money now? Just have her put down. Same goes with spouses or others that are now making you uncomfortable.
So to be pro-life is actually making sure there is a culture of life where YOU will be taken care of. That is in your best interest after all.
>>80976386
an 'umputated' arm or transplanted kidney isn't a human being, it's a part of a human being.
a fetus is a human being in an early stage of development.
i'd be okay with abortion in 'nonhuman people.' i'm not some animal rights vegan hedonistic utilitarian faggot.
again, it's wrong because it's murdering a human being, not because it has or doesn't have sentience, consciousness, or a persona.
keeps the nigger population down... crime went down in the 90s and many economists think it was because of abortion becoming legal years before hand
Sending unborn children to hell.
>>80973960
Just another way to kill off whitey thanks to (((certain))) individuals in society.
>>80976761
This. I remember when everybody was upset they shot that gorilla to stop him from hurting that kid. I'd shoot every gorilla in every zoo in the world before I'd perform an abortion.
>>80976478
That would be a great idea, if it would've been possible.
Abortion is the gentleman's way to population control. A+, would murder again. Euthanasia should also be legal, it's brutal to make everyone undergo 'natural' death, something which you might not understand until you have to watch someone die of cancer- which happens to a lot of fucking people.
>pass legislation that says if an immigrant woman from one of "those" countries has an abortion she'll get X amount of money
>causes them to not procreate like rabbits because of cash motivation and leftists who see through this will be told that those people are poor and often can't afford a(nother) child so the money in exchange for abortion should allow them to build a more stable life so they can have kids later in life
>immigrants from "those" countries are greedy beyond reason so they'll get pregnant all the time just to be able to abort and get money
>they breed themselves out of existence and since only "those" women get the cash it takes the motivation from "those" men to fool around with white women
tl;dr: we pay them to fuck themselves out of existence
>>80973960
It's not okay. I don't consider niggers human, so no, niggers killing their children isn't abortion. It's just what animals do.
Sex is for procreation not for pleasure
I fully support it
I think the Republican party needs to just drop the issue. They'd get so many more supporters that way.
>>80973960
It's our duty as patriotic Americans to abort black and latino babies!
>>80977211
>I fully support it
Kill yourself you cuck.
>>80977276
Killing animals is not abortion you retard
>>80976682
Economically it's the best solution. What's more cruel? Taking the life of a clump of cells or making a unstable family raise an unwanted baby.
>>80973960
Ok if every jewess did it.
>>80973960
It has been debated for thousands of years, will be debated for thousands of years to come.
It is a subject rich with moral dilemmas and unanswerable questions.
What is in a womb? Fetus, baby, or protohuman?
When does a person begin?
When do rights begin?
Say someday some version of telepathy becomes real, through scientific discovery, alien contact, or evolution.
If you could use telepathy to determine when consciousness begins would it change anything?
If government is allowed to tell a woman she must continue a pregnancy, does crossing that line allow the government to order the end of a pregnancy?
If government can order women to continue a pregnancy does the government also have the right to order sterilization?
Is there a wall of separation between the state and your jimmies?
It is a fascinating topic.
>>80977337
>it's better to be dead than to live a difficult life
disagree.
100% against it
>>80976761
Human being originally referred to the quality of human experience and now colloquially it's used to refer to a class of entity. There's no fruit in arguing semantics here. I say moral patient status depends on being a person- being a class of entity with certain aspects including sentience, salience, will, continuity of experience. You say moral patient status depends on being human and being a distinct organism.
You're wrong because there is nothing inherently special about being a member of the human species beyond personhood (those qualities mentioned above). Humans evolved from other animals and we draw distinctions between species based on conceptual convenience. There was no moment where a monkey gave birth to a human and all of a sudden that human had rights. Everything we find special in humanity arose slowly over time.
>>80977932
Goddam phone. Typed salience and meant sapience.
Every aborted child goes straight to hell.
>>80977551
That's because you live in luxury. Most people throughout history lived in absolute misery, and then got crucified
>>80973960
It is justified in cases of non-whites, rape victims, incest, early detected deformities (down syndrome), and exorbitant poverty. It is a very good tool to help National Socialism.
However, a more passive approach of sterilization for gibs might be better.
>>80978461
you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Honestly, I'm torn.
On the one hand, it's true that women turn to more dangerous methods when abortion isn't legal, making access to abortion a women's health issue. And if they really are going to be doing it either way, then having access to the ability to do it safely is a lesser evil. Furthermore, I really don't think that a cluster of 2, 4, or 16 cells is a human being yet.
On the other hand, I don't think it's right, and the reasoning behind its justification is very inconsistent and flawed. Women constantly bring up cases of rape and incest to justify access to abortion, but those do not constitute the majority of abortions. Convenience does. Women constantly bring up the "my body, my choice" narrative to justify abortion, but beyond a certain point of development, I don't agree that it's just your body anymore. I find it contradictory that if somebody murders a pregant woman, that person can be charged with two homicides, but the law when a woman aborts the same fetus doesn't treat it as another person.
Lastly, it conflicts with my own deeply-held convictions. I truly do believe that all life is precious, and I go out of my way to live accordingly. I'm a vegan, and I want to be a pediatric/neonatal surgeon, maybe even a fetal surgeon. It would be totally inconsistent with what I live for if I were in favor of abortion. I wouldn't be willing to do med school, residency, and fellowships to protect fetuses if I thouht they were worthless. Do I think that other people should be legally mandated to act by my beliefs? No. But I do think it's wrong, and while I can't justify legalizing my own ethics, I can still speak for them.
Really, if the rhetoric for justifying abortion weren't so shitty and flawed, I might feel differently, but I tend to dismiss positions that are defended by bad arguments.
>>80973960
I'm okay with it if its done within the first 2 weeks. After that it is disgusting. Also, pol forgets we would have 30 million more niggers in America without abortion. Stupid Christcucks.
>>80973960
The mentality in the usa turns abortion into something dangerous. Its the ultimate form of rejection of personal responsibility.
>>80978302
>trying to trigger my white guilt
you have no power here.
>>80977932
well, ordinarily i'd bring my religion into the mix here, and we'd be talking past eachother, since we're of two different worldviews.
i'd be more interested in exploring this statement though:
>There was no moment where a monkey gave birth to a human
would this still be the case if man evolved by virtue of punctuated equilibrium rather than phyletic gradualism? this stuff is a bit outside of my wheelhouse so i'm prepared to look retarded.
>>80978731
Yes of course.
The plan is to send these people to God as soon as possible!
>>80979213
all men are created sinful so aborted children will go to hell
>>80978302
If I may step in, my life has been a living hell from day one and I don't come from a priveleged background, and I still agree that life is worthwhile even when it's painful and difficult.
You ever been depressed? Not just "I'm sad" depressed, but truly, clinically depressed? The kind of depression that sucks the meaning out of everything, puts you in a fog, makes it so that you neither want to live nor desire death, makes everything look, sound, smell, taste, and feel grey, and turns getting out of bed into a herculean task? The kind where people hurt themselves just to feel ANYTHING? If you get through that, and the first emotion you can actually feel again is anger or hatred or grief or sadness, then you realize the value of negative emotions. They're part of being alive, and even a life that is mostly those emtions is worth it.
>>80978910
I agree with this statement to some extent. There are evils we're willing to tolerate for the greater good. War. Killing. Vivisection. Lying. The danger comes in when the arguments used to justify those practices when they're for the sake of the greater good start being used to justify them when used for convenience.
>>80978770
what sort of mystical voodoo happens after 14 days?
>>80973960
Dont really give a shit one way or the other dont know what all the fuss is about.
>>80979382
>hell
>exists
pick one
>>80976639
>A clump of cells
Well, what are you, you sticking pile of dogshit.
>>80974771
the moral burden put on the women who was raped and should raise the child, is far greater than the moral burden of killing a fetus.
>>80973960
murder - obviously. Those who say that it is part of the woman's body are idiots. If I am fucking a woman is she part of my body? Do conjoined twins get to kill each other?
>>80973960
I'm fine with abortions up until the third month. But in addition to "muh body, muh choice" I'd also want a "my wallet, my choice" for men, meaning the possibility of a financial abortion. Woman learns she's pregnant, she has to inform the father (documented, maybe via lawyer or city hall), who then has until two weeks before her abortion window runs out to decide if he wants to take responsibility or not; if he decides to not take it, and she decides to get the kid anyway, he has no financial obligations whatsoever. Her body (and her's alone), her choice (and her's alone), her responsibility (and her's alone).
>>80973960
I'm all for it.
>wanting retards to have babies
>>80980789
>and should raise the child
adoption is a thing.
>inb4 but kids in the adoption system have a shitty life!
better to have a rough life than to be dead
>>80974032
fpbp
Less welfare babies
Men are born sinful not created sinful. Still against abortion.
>>80981078
>But in addition to "muh body, muh choice" I'd also want a "my wallet, my choice" for men, meaning the possibility of a financial abortion
Agreed. And I'll spell it out.
If you're going to make the argument that simple existence in cororeal form does not constitute personhood, as many abortion advocates do, and that aborting a fetus isn't aborting a human, then you have to be in favor of a financial abortion option in order to be consistent.
Being forced to pay for a child you don't want is being forced to give your life and humanity to that child. Your work-years of your precious and limited time, your labor, your being as a phenomenon animating your body-is being given up.
If we define personhood and humanity, life itself, as being more than physiological processes in order to justify abortion, then the logical conclusion is that a man who has to give up all those things that go beyond mere flesh and blood for a child he doesn't want is being forced to give his life for that child. And we don't force mothers to give up their lives for fetuses. They can abort.
>>80980102
Totally second this. I have been through some shite that is just too painful to share, even here. I know the desire to die. But even during those times I valued the pain. Nobody ever had the right to take my life and I never had the right to take anyone else's right. If the government said that it was ok to kill a certain class of people, they would be wrong. The government does not have to power to override the universal moral code. Murder is wrong.
>>80973960
I'm torn. On the one hand it kills toddlers, but on the other it gives women a choice.
>>80973960
Why abort when there's adoption?
>>80978739
Only reasonable post ITT, there is no "right" answer to this.
I'm still decidedly pro-choice, because the idea of forcing women to give birth gives me nightmares. I guess it's different for some people. It's a frightening and risky process, and I remember someone posting something a while a go about a study where chimps were raped and forced to give birth, and were much more likely to end up abusing or killing their young. It's not that I don't think life is precious, but life is life, it consumes and is consumed, and it's a choice between a woman who may go on later to raise a child properly in a nice environment, or a child and its mother in a poor one.
The only "peaceful" form of life on earth are plants. Non-carnivorous plants.
>>80982045
Better question: Why be in the position where an abortion is necessary when condoms, iud's, the pill, spermicidal sponges, and the morning-after pill all exist?
>>80981876
what choice? They can't chose to go back it time. The pregnancy happened. So the choice isn't pregnancy or no pregnancy. The womb just doesn't have an on/off switch. They did have that choice when they had sex, but I really want to know what the "choice" is
>>80973960
The more the merrier.id also be wildly in favor for pregnancy licenses acquired through credit checks.it should be harder to have a kid than to buy a car.sign me-fuck poorfags
Personally I totally agree with the woman's right to do whatever with her body that she wants. If she wants to chop up her body, go for it...just don't touch the baby... funny that they want it the other way round. They sure get pissed at the doctor if he accidentally nicks her vag while chopping up her baby.
>>80982178
I really want to know when guatemala got internet.
>>80982167
They don't always work. And look at Dubai if you want to see a society where women abstain from sex if they don't want to reproduce.
>>80981659
My favorite is when people who support abortion for women throw the
>shoulda kept it in your pants!
argument at men who are dealing with unwanted children.
>>80982386
Shitspecies trying to promote its own kind.
>>80982485
I am not sure. I have only been here a month. I think it is available everywhere in the country where cable TV is available. From what I hear it is run by a corrupt, politically connected bastard of course.
>>80982556
Delhi* whoops. I wonder, though.
>>80982556
It's true that they don't always work. You could make a case that abortions should be legal because statistical anomalies exist. That said, this is again arguing for the majority of abortions (convenience, laziness) on the merits of the minority (rape, incest, accidents).
>>80982661
not even sure what that means.
>>80973960
It should be legal, safe, but rare.
The alternatives are ghoulish
>>80982737
The issue is really that people don't go out of their way to avoid getting into this situation. We have billions of people fucking each other, with or without protection, and it's considered socially unacceptable to discuss worst-case scenarios prior to sex. How did we even get to this point? We value each other so little, this whole abortion debate exists to trigger the feels of people who see unborn babies as clean slates who have some chance of not being indoctrinated into this shit. They don't.
>>80974042
So a man rapes a woman, and his child must be punished? Doesn't sound very just to me.
>>80974497
Meu crioulo
Mandatory if genetics are bad.
Narcissistic and a result of own poor judgement if good genetics, shouldn't be given just to teach them a lesson.
They could still get one if the selfish fucks looked for it hard enough, but at least they'd have to take the risk and responsibility that way.
>>80983120
>Legalize prostitution
>Remove gatekeeping to tie tubes for women under 30 by gynecologists
Now you have less abortions. You can't save the birthrate, so rip that band aid off right now. Women, even hookers won't be competing for high scores, you can't just go to the abortion clinic every 6 months. You will die.
>>80982167
Lots of pro-life people see plan b as abortion and don't support it (see the pharmacy in Oregon or Washington recently). Also, all of those other methods are not 100% guaranteed to work. I've had a condom break. That resulted in an unplanned pregnancy, which further resulted in a planned abortion.
>>80983663
if you had chosen to carry the baby would you agree that the father should have the same right to chose abortion?
>>80983663
Plan B is abortion, but condoms and birth control are a good combo, though they aren't guaranteed to work. If you take the chance you should be willing to face the consequences.
>>80973960
its a good way to eliminate alot of trashy unwanted people
>>80983837
You're not taking the father's right or ability away to have kids, just to have them with you. Again, people should discuss this if it's important to them, entrapment is wrong.
>>80983905
>Plan B is abortion
it's really not.
t. pro-life evangelical
>>80973960
I'm okay with it, a woman have plenty of occasion to turn pregnant but not as many to give birth. I can understand a woman not wanting to damage her body and her situation with an unwanted children.
>>80983948
But why did she abort? I suspect that she would say that it was bad timing. She wasn't ready to be a mother. It would have put a burden on her, etc etc. Do not these same issues apply to the father? If he isn't ready, or feels the burden would be too great should he have the right to abort the baby?
>>80984059
If I recall correctly, it stops the cells from being implanted in the wall, which kills it after the egg and sperm have met. If life begins at conception, and where else would it begin, Plan B is abortion.
>>80973960
Hard truth is that it should be allowed. Too many feels and intuition pumps from antiabortion folks. Treating a clump of cells without significant cognitive processes as a person is idiotic. Denying people the right to end pregnancies leads to more unwanted children and poorer genetic stock. These lead to more crime, instability, and welfare.
If you're gonna start using emotional female logic instead of cold hard reason you might as well buy into socialism, egalitarianism, open borders and all the other feel good nonsense overly emotional people buy into.
>>80984250
Fair enough. That said, it's at least better than aborting after nerves have developed months in.
>>80984081
what about if the baby is born and turns out to be a burden. Should the mother have the right to have it put to sleep like we do with pets?
>>80984256
So you don't agree with partial birth abortion?
>>80983243
Someone enters into your house without your consent and you can't kick them out? Bitch I'll use deadly force on a trespasser.
>>80984210
I though you could just write them off and not pay child support, at least in Leafland.
>>80984250
yeah that was the meme for a while but it's been debunked.
>The International Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics, citing new research, declared last March that Plan B does not inhibit implantation but instead blocks fertilization.
from: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/may/does-plan-b-cause-abortion.html
(i realize i should probably link to an original source and not this article but i am lazy)
a child has a soul at conception
>>80984514
Better analogy:
>someone places a person in your house without your consent or that person's consent
>you kill the person in your house instead of punishing the one who put it there
>>80984606
Not in america. If the mother chooses to carry it then it is the father's obligation to pay. If he refuses then they go to court and the judge orders child support. There is no way out for the man, only for the woman. Women wouldn't want it any other way. They want to kill the baby if they don't like it, and to make the man pay for it if they do.
Also, in America there are "unborn victim of violence" laws that say that if a man hits a woman and causes the fetus to die he is guilty of murder. Explain that
>>80984709
I think there might be some conflicting research. If it's really true that it only stops fertilization then I'm okay with it, but I'd need more than one study.
>>80985009
> Explain that
America is a fucking mess.
>>80984377
You mean like the baby having a handicap ? Once the baby is out of the mother's body she doesn't have any right on his life.
>>80985214
yes, but what is the fix? should abortion be banned, should men be allowed to demand abortion if they also don't want it? Or should men be able to financially abort?
>>80973960
It's a great way to fight the scourge of overpopulation.
>>80973960
Like killing in general, it entirely depends on who is being aborted.
>>80985217
you say "unwanted baby" which I guess is an admission that the fetus is a baby at the point when the woman can still abort it. So what is the difference if it has emerged from the womb? If a person accepts that a mother has the right to murder her baby then the timing is just semantics, flexible with whatever is the current accepted moral norm.
>>80985734
so abort yourself. Save the earth.
>>80985821
Margaret Sanger would agree, that's why she put her planned parenthood clinics in poor black neighborhoods
>>80985523
I like >>80981078 's idea in theory but it's inevitably subject to abuse and wouldn't help much. There is no "fix" unless you must look at it this way: >>80974032
Also:
>Have the baby and I will take custody and care of it all by myself and your hospital bills while you are in labor.
Where's these guys? You never hear about them.
>>80985936
The difference isn't on the baby but the woman, if she doesn't want to go through pregnancy and giving birth then she has the right to dispose of that baby. Once the baby is out she can't have any reason to kill the baby, even if she doesn't to raise the baby she can give him to someone else.
I'd live to legalize love postnatal abortion for some people.
>>80983837
>>80983905
I was the male, not the female. We were young and weighed the balance of severely curtailing our lives vs definitely ending "its" life (never found out sex because so early). It was a fairly easy decision, but it wasn't like we were skipping anf whistling down to the murder factory - I mean, abortion clinic.
>>80986620
not really clear on this. Are you saying that as long as the baby is inside it is ok to murder? Or are you arguing that as long as it is inside it is just a cancer, a part of her body and thus she can have it removed? Either way I disagree, but I am interested in hearing other people's views. I disagree because I have seen videos of babies struggling during abortions. They feel it and they want to live. It is butchery as bad as any beheading by ISIS perhaps
>>80986753
edgy
>>80976061
it's more alpha to have the ability to talk a woman into fucking you, and it's more alpha to have a woman pleasure you as much as she can than one just who's just lying their prone waiting for you to essentially finish jacking off into her
>>80975167
replace allowed with mandatory and you're thinking along the right lines
I'm against it for moral reasons.
I believe that human beings are special and unique creatures on this planet which in turn means that we need to be treated as special and unique by the legal system (Don't we all agree on this? Besides maybe some Vegan wackos who think a human life is equal to the life of a deer.)
In my opinion human beings have an innate right to be valued, respected, and to receive ethical treatment. This is a concept called "dignity", which I believe that abortion violates.
I'm not saying the world is at full capacity, but I think living standards would raise considerably if there were less of us. Abort away.
>>80973960
carving babies out of the bellies of women
JUST..
>>80987417
That's like saying the best rose bushes deserve not to be pruned.
Eugenics is more in line with human dignity than letting the trash flourish tbqf.
>>80983243
Birth puts the mother in risk
A woman should have the abortion early if she does not want to take more risks
That child, if born, will have a horrible life, either never knowing who he/she is or who his/her parents are, or knowing that he is a rapebaby
>>80986976
>Are you saying that as long as the baby is inside it is ok to murder?
Yes that's my point, i understand yours too. I'm not saying abortion is "right" but giving birth to unwanted children isn't right either. The woman might have her life ruined and regret not planning on her pregnancy plus the children will probably lead a shitty life but she will probably regret later having killed someone too. It would be wrong to force someone to go through pregnancy but i don't mind the woman getting tax for being careless if it was not by rape.
