(1) Hey /pol/
I got into a heated discussion with a fellow student today - would like to hear your opinion on this.
She was mocking an AfD-politician (right wing) because she tweeted something regarding the national soccer team - the gist of it was that the national teams are no longer representative of the nation and country they're playing for, because there're so many players with foreign backgrounds.
I said that while this specific tweet was stupid I could still understand where that opinion was coming from (this was the point she went into near-tears-fury-mode). You only need X citizenship to join the national soccer team of country X. This is what the formal side looks like and this is the reason why the tweet was rather dumb.
Now when trying to understand why people still have the opinion mentioned in the tweet you have to realize that not all people are lawyers and they do not only look at the formal side but also at the reality, which is influenced by more aspects (societal etc.) than just the legal one. When people think of a French man, they do not imagine a darkest-shade-of-black guy from the deepest of Africa and that's why they're baffled when 7 out of 11 players in the French national team are black - there's nothing racist or judgemental about that.
This brought us to the question of what being "German" actually means. I told here that I don't consider someone German just because he has the German citizenship (at this point her eye balls nearly fell out of their sockets because dasracist) but rather look at the nationality which includes the citizenship AND ethnicity (in the German language at least, "Staatsangehörigkeit" vs. "Volkszugehörigkeit") - a distinction nearly EVERY "pure-German" fails to make. Aspects like descent, upbringing, language, culture play no role for them - especially "descent" because that somehow sounds Hitlerish and might have something to do with genes and all that Nazi stuff - the German's eternal nightmare.
>>80273800
>I got into a heated discussion with a fellow student today
For what purpose? If you continue throwing around terms like "Volkszugehörigkeit" (that makes you literally Hitler), you're going to be expelled in no time, m8.
>>80273800
(2)
Post is getting way too long, trying to trim it down.
So according to her someone who was born in Germany and whose ancestors lived in Afghanistan for hundreds if not thousands of years, someone who is raised with Afghan traditions and the language and name etc.. is still of German ethnicity if that person simply decides that.
So if I know everything about Indian culture, traditions, yadda yadda although I've otherwise got absolutely no connection to that country I can still become an Indian, simply by choosing so.
This view fucking baffles me. Unlike the citizenship, which is a sort of legal label, my ethnicity is an integral part of my identity which I do not simply get to choose.
Enough for now..would be interesting to hear opinions from people from other countries.
>>80274176
It's a fucking shame Germans were brainwashed into the eternal guilt.
I unno, if you're serious, you could ask her if moving to japan and getting a japanese passport would somehow magically transform her into a jap. It she isn't completely braindead that should at least make her go "hu, really makes me think.".
>>80275360
She would argue that as soon as she lived according to their rules, accepted their culture and tradition..she would be Japanese.
I'm feel like I'm getting dumber typing this out.
>>80274885
>is still of German ethnicity if that person simply decides that.
no. nationality is about pedigree ie. parentage, or in volkisch terms 'your blood'. Mesut Özil is a Turk with German citizenship. Exceptions exist of course, Napoleon being a famous one.
>>80273800
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/its-a-joke-irish-athlete-lashes-out-at-authorities-after-defeat-743661.html
>>80273800
> the gist of it was that the national teams are no longer representative of the nation and country they're playing for, because there're so many players with foreign backgrounds.
Except that the tweet was about the fact that they renamed the Team from "National Team" to "The Team" previously to the match, to get rid of the word Nation.
>>80275739
Well then, try arguing that just waltzing over their borders and "becoming japanese" is very very disrepectful towards their culture and the people who have lived there for thousands of years. Even if she respects their culture which should be self-evident anyway, if you immigrate to another country.
>>80274885
>>80276000
Also I didn't read your whole post, but all you seem to do is arguing about semantics.
A person can have a german passport and be a German citizen, that doesn't give that person a German heritage. How you define ethnicity is entirely open to discussion and literally a non-issue with no productive outcome. Words are a tool. If she insists on using an arbitrarily retarded definition you can't do anything.
>>80273800
1. At least one German parent.
2. Knowledge about German history.
3. when they Play the national Anthem, you fucking sing it out of respect.
t. legal Migrant
>>80273800
>German people was ereased from the NRW constitution
Nice politicians you have...
>>80275867
She would literally claw your eyes out because you said Özil is not German. He grew up here, speaks German..she literally said every player in the German national team has already contributed more to Germany than I ever will - so that means that they must be German.
>>80276000
We were not arguing about the tweet - it only started the discussion. We were arguing about the meaning and understand of "citizenship, ethnicity, nationality".
>>80276892
>He grew up here, speaks German..she literally said every player in the German national team has already contributed more to Germany than I ever will - so that means that they must be German.
This is completely retarded, by this very definition the NPD leader is much more german than she because he was a military officer...
Kek leftists as dumb to the point they cuck themselves.
>>80276892
Özil doesn't even sings the national Anthem. He has no respect for the Nation. I don't want him as my neighbour to be honest
I have German ancestors. If I were to magically learn German and move to Germany today, I wouldn't consider myself German.
In the past decade I slowly began to understand why Germans always have such a hard time to say that people are different from them, let it be the appearance of a different ethnic group or whatever. I once had a guy tell me that you phenotypically could not tell a purely African and a purely European person apart.
I think I've finally understood why. It's German arrogance. They think that everything, that is different, must be worse.
>>80274885
It doesn't matter what she thinks.
Only Europeans are European, and of everyone is German, no one is.
(((Leftism))) is self extinguishing, the practical implications of it is a largely African and Islamic society.
Individuals that live for others and not themselves are replaced by those who do the opposite, thus it is true for groups of individuals also.
Really examine pic related to see what (((they))) are trying to do. Makes shorehroning of Africans into European history that bit more insidious no?
Who survives wins. Who has the will wins. Power resides where people believe it resides and history is written by those who write it.
>>80276892
>she literally said every player in the German national team has already contributed more to Germany than I ever will - so that means that they must be German
pfft, hes a citizen but not a national. I know the left and powerful friends in authority are trying to muddy the waters on this now but its settled understanding of the terms. take Mesut Özil out of the team and I don't think there would be a problem finding an ethnic German replacement.
Germany isn't America, its not an invented country stolen from locals, its got a long history and German nationals have a long settled ethnic identity. The only question is over mischlinge and how generous the national collective feels towards them. Overall I feel sorry that third worlders haven't had this explained to them and will fall foul of it eventually.
>>80273800
A dog born in a cow shed is still a dog. It is that simple.
I was born here to migrants from the balkans but you would never know looking at me or speaking to me. I feel as a part of the german society and for some time I wanted to get the german citizenship (which I have the right to get) - but since shit went down with the refugees and I saw how most germans don't give a fuck how their ethnicity gets replaced with arabs I honestly won't ever take on the german citizenship. It has lost all its value to me; if the burka wearing dumb slab next door who can't speak a single word of german, has popped out the next set of jihadists and hates everything germany and the west stands for but still is a "german", well than I don't want to be part of this.
>>80278975
This, Europe for the europeans, shitskins and burgers out
>>80279273
You don't want a united Christendom?
>>80278975
I understand the Germans, they're trying to mimic America. The difference is that Germany has no national identity (anymore) and that why it fails and will continue to fail so miserably in being a "melting pot".
>>80273800
You made the mistake of arguing with a woman.
A woman argues from an emotional position - How does it make me fell?
A man argues from a rational position - what is true?
A woman will accept an emotionally dangerous argument from an emotionally comforting source, that is, from a man who's fucking her. That way you're the one judging her and not the other way around, as it is normally the case. She needs to think you're a good person and even then you have to reveal power level incrementally.
Clearly, you're not fucking her, so why argue?
>>80280223
I know what you mean, i'm a fucking slav and have more pride for the german traditions than most Bio-Germans. it'S really sad
>>80280491
(OP here btw)
Same here, bratu4a. I'm half Russian, half German - your words could've been mine.
>>80280491
>>80280664
Feel free to leave as well
>>80280859
Why the hard feelings, Prinzessin?
>>80280859
nah, i'm whiter than the average German with a Bachelor degree in Engineering and have never broken a single law.
concentrate your hate on the arabs you pussy :^)
>>80280223
>USA
>national identity
Nope, you are wrong as fuck, the USA don't have a nation nor an ethnic identity. They simply took the traditions of each immigrant group that come in.
>>80279394
Why should I want it ? South america and half of Africa are also part of the christiandom...
The christian west would be a good thing but christianty is dead in the first world and the USA are increasingly diverse
>>80280403
I'm doing it with my GF currently - your words hit the nail on the head pretty much.
Silly comment on the AfD politician's part, though for a completely different reason. Football players tend to belong to the lowest social strata, so naturally poor people, migrants, and minorities will always tend to be over-represented.
When in Rome do as the Romans do.
>invite half a million muslim males to your country for DIVERSITY and HUMANITY
>create a new wave of right winged youths
Good job Merkel. Two steps forward, eight steps back, one to the side and a 180° turn backwards. You're head over heels into this shit and you're trying your best to fix the mess you created. But for fucks sake you're making this worse for everyone. Jews and Germans are fleeing the cities and the country because these Muslims are above the law and critique, people like Gauck claiming that it's "the peasants who are the real problem, not the elites"
Germany's politics are fucking retarded and it's time for a fucking change.
>>80273800
I am ethnically German my last name is german and the only reason I see myself as American only because I have American Citizenship. I do not believe there is a ethnicity called American because if took a DNA test I would still show up as German. My family was German 1000 years before they ever came to America.
I had German family in WWI in the German navy on the SMS Möwe {pic related} and in WWII in the battle of the bulge I had family on both sides. Also the US government threatend to put my family in a internment camp because they were German.
>>80276764
>1. At least one German parent.
1.1 the other parent has to be of European descent
Mongrels have no home.
>>80273800
national teams should have to be made up of people actually from the country, i.e. nationalized through normal channels (this usually takes a long time, prohibitively long for soccer/hockey trades) or born there
a black man who has been living here in canada for 7 years, speaks french and english, works in a canadian business, and has a canadian gf (or sissy cucc bf) is as canadian as he needs to be for me. culture isn't genetic, so I see no reason that someone has to be of the right "descent" to be a part of a culture. you can take a white boy out of america at birth and raise him in korea, and he's gonna end up korean as fucc despite his whiteness and even be probably not even legally american anymore and will hold korean credentials.
>>80273800
You should have focused on the role that CULTURE and HERITAGE plays in nationality.
If I were to move to Germany, I'd still act American. You may have said something specifically racist though which mislead her to think that you were basing German nationality on skin color or something.
A black dude can be more German than a white dude if he was raised there and represents the culture
>>80273800
I 100% agree with you. Theres a big difference between being German (ethnically) and having a German Citizenship.
>>80281871
What if it's from the Mediterranean Sea? AH?
>>80282065
>A black dude can be more German than a white dude if he was raised there and represents the culture
no he can't b/c he will never be an ethnic german. There's this thing that's called ethnicity that actually exists.
>>80282514
>There's this thing that's called ethnicity that actually exists.
True, but it has nothing to do with culture.
Or are you one of those people who actually believes pitbulls are all dangerous all the time, and that asians are genetically wired to be better at math?
Yo Germans, how hard did the Holocaust denier comment hit AfD in the polls?
>>80273800
I get what you're saying.
Europe =/= america. I'll explain why.
Throughout european history, the shapes and the boundaries of countries and political structures always changed, due to the people living there. Different people with different langugages and different ways of life used to claim authority to their settlements due to its different background and sense of nationality. Nationality WAS ALWAYS used as a matter of defence against foreign invasors because it gathered people for defending their way of lives in the face of foreign subjugation by other tribes.
Then, were the people went, there were their country. The ethnicity and the culture were their country, not the soil. The distribution of slavic languages in the balcans and the lack of it in the between until you reach ukraine and other slavic speaking countries is a good example.
You can see this when constantinople fell, and italians living there had left the place back to italy, and the renaissance have flourished with the knowledge they have kept with them and have brought there.
The shapes of the countries always changed, but the ethnicity and the culture remained the same as a way to guarantee their sovereignty. This is the meaning of nationality, and this was the reason all major wars pre 1945 were by rightful claim of territories which had a significant amount of people living there with cultural bounds to the country doing the agression.
Hence, in european history, THE PEOPLE made the country, and not the country made the people just by its soil.
The gap between europe and america, is that america is a melting pot, is a place that was colonized. Europe is a place where things have developed differently. It's not racist acknoledging your past and recognizing your national identity among your countrymen. It's what kept germany as germany under soviet control, and what have ensured poland would ascend as a independent country after the fall of the polish lithuanian commonwealth
>>80281982
>>80282065
>What are ethnicities
A frenchman is a pesonn born from true french parents, other euopeans are acceptable but it's because they end up looking like a copy of an ethnic french.
t. only 50% because my mom is polish
>>80273800
The nation is the aggregate of various characteristics shared by a group of people who mostly occupy continuous territory. Such characteristics are religion or set of moral norms heavily influenced by the dominant religion, race, language, habits, taste in food and art and generally what behavior a person expects from the people around him. The nation grew organically over centuries if not thousands of years and is not arbitrary and can not be changed easily (meaning within a few generations of people).
The nation is not to be confused with the territory of the state, which is an arbitrary outcome of the most recent armed conflict between two or more states. An example to illustrate the difference: Südtirol is in the territory of the state of Italy, but its nation is Austrian, although it can be argued, that the nation of Austria doesn't exist, but is instead part of a greater nation of Germany.
Some nations are not geographically bound. Jews form a nation and have only very recently acquired territory controlled by a state mostly composed of members of this nation. America is also a nation not bound to certain soil, but instead to an idea. America could exist anywhere.
>>80282818
this site gathers results from different polls and updates regurlary
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm
merkels popularity is on the rise again, don`t ask me why though
>>80283535
>Hence, in european history, THE PEOPLE made the country, and not the country made the people just by its soil.
This huehue get it, in the americas a country is sum up by a bunch of values while in Europe it's the people that make the country.
That's why a nation mean a country in the USA and a nation mean an ethnicity in Europe.
>>80274885
>So according to her someone who was born in Germany and whose ancestors lived in Afghanistan for hundreds if not thousands of years, someone who is raised with Afghan traditions and the language and name etc.. is still of German ethnicity if that person simply decides that.
This is bullshit. Just ask her what it means to be Chinese and then if she moved to China now, how long it would take for her to be "Chinese". She may have citizenship, she might speak Chinese, but will she have the same sense outlook on life? The same value system? It's quite ridiculous to think that nations can be changed within one human being. Maybe over many generations, but not by simply changing ones location and maybe even learning the language.
>>80284098
I'm european, french bro. Brazilians would never understand the difference between jure solis and jure sanguinis
>>80284313
Are you the french guy living in Brazil who post on /fr/ from time to time ?
>>80284098
I always thought a nation referred more to a culture. Like the nation of Quebec -- it's not very homogenous ethnicity-wise, we have our share of blacks and asians and shit, but Quebec as a nation is much different from, say, Newfoundland or PEI-ers as nations. Even though the land is basically the same and largely continuous and the demographics are strikingly similar, the cultures are quite different.
>>80284920
That's the problem, I would say. Different continents with different cultures have different meanings for nationality, but people still keep the mindset that what works for a continent also must work for a different one.
Canada was colonized by the french in quebec, but their still were a colony. FOR CANADA, that's the national sense the region has.
In europe, things are different. The ways the countries got their shapes were different.
There's not a rule for every country, it's like the british colonizing india, are indians british people? No, they had their own culture centuries before the british reach there.
The thing is that in america you have genocided the local population and replaced them with everything else available in the world. If the natives were not in indian reservations nowadays, this rule of sovereignty would be the same for your continent
>>80284888
No, french bro, I'm austrian-italian
>>80285585
>FOR CANADA, that's the national sense the region has.
while only quebec actually tried to separate, pretty much every province thinks it's the best and only one holding the country together and thinks every other province should Frig Off
most canadians like canada, but only as an extension of their own province.
>>80273800
Me personally, I'm völkisch. Ius sanguinis. You are German if both of your parents are German.
For example the Sorbs are not Germans, but it's their land, therefore they and only they have the right to say what happens to it. Strictly speaking their plot of land isn't Germany then. In my books this goes for every people on the world (Tibetians, Tamils, primitive tribes and so on).
btw: wasn't her tweet about the DFB decision to call it Mannschaft instead of Nationalmannschaft?
>>80285863
I believe that if I would explain to somebody with an "jure solis" mindset what its a all about the "jure sanguinis" mindset that have shaped the countries of europe, I would do this example:
Imagine the civil war in america. The different mindsets they had over the future the country should chase from that on. How the south thought about the country differently if compared to the north.
Now, think that the people up north is different from the south in looks and have always been different because they come from different backgrounds and not from the same anglosphere, with different languages, religion, mindset and tradition. Do you think the united states would still be unified if they spoke a different languages and had not that many thing in common? Don't you think the people up north would try to ensure security to their people living in the south, and vice versa when it comes to the people of the south and their contrymen living in the north?
Well, and that's not everything. Think that they were at war over territories and natural resources for over 3 thousand years. Then you get what was like living in europe before 1945 and what is the impact the mindset in people throughout history
>>80287108
>Do you think the united states would still be unified
they arent unified now, culture and tensions between individual states and cultures are very high right now
>>80287598
There aren't at the edge of waring each others...
>>80287908
counterpoint: 410 757 864 530 DEAD COPS
>>80274885
If someone came here and respected my culture and customs, then i wouldn't have a problem accepting him. He could call himself senegalese, i wouldn't give a shit.
But if he has a past heritage and he isn't willing to accept it, i'd probably look down on him.
>>80287908
States themselves no, but demographics are.
>>80287598
That's the point, now imagine it gets medieval. A tribe invading other tribe, sacking, raping, looting. After the fall of the roman empire, that's what the median european has lived for over a thousand years. Feudalism has been created, and people had to stick together in order to survive the sacks and ensure sovereignty. So they used to stick together with their own, the same way you would feel more comfortable living in a castle with someone that's familiar to you and you trust because speaks your language and has cultural bounds the same as yours, intead of some random settlement where you would feel like a stranger because you can't speak their language and doesn't understand their culture. That had a HUGE impact in what is europe today, and you can take a look over the reconquista the iberians fought against the moors for almost a thousand years, just to reconquer the land they have lost for foreign invasors many centuries and generations before.
>>80273800
>When people think of a French man, they do not imagine a darkest-shade-of-black guy from the deepest of Africa and that's why they're baffled when 7 out of 11 players in the French national team are black
They aren't and they will never be french, this kind of niggerq and shitskins in France are know as french of papers in France.
>>80273800
History is a good and important thing, it prevent you to redo the same mistakes, and instruct you on human nature.
But since I personally did nothing for it, I don't have to be proud or ashamed of anything. What matters is what I've done and will do.
I think I have to defend my ancestors if it need to be done, because who else would? I feel french when stranger tease me. (which happens..) It's like if they put a sticker on your forehead "french", you can't really ignore it
I also think nationality often means you have particularities because of the environment you grew up in, your people history, system, education. That to me is the most interesting part. I'm especially fascinated by the germans. Many good things to learn from them.
>>80288170
You only say this because you don't have immigrants from other civilisation in your country...
In Asia and Europe only a native is truly seen as a mumber of the nation, people from close ethnicities are also accepted.
>>80288432
say to my face
>>80273800
Leave our country please. You're not welcome here anymore
>>80288633
You are not french bilel and never will be, now piss off
>>80288489
Dude, there's no such thing as don't being proud or ashamed of the past of your people. The thing is more like acknowledging YOU'RE THE PRODUCT of it, hence PART OF IT.
You can be as neutral as possible, don't give a fuck or be insanely mad about the history, but people tend to forget they are a product of history in that matter, and this by itself is the sense of nationality europe NEEDS URGENTLY right now
>>80288961
Antifa scum ?
>>80289013
I talk about Thierry Henry dumbfuck
Thierry Henry isn't French?
>>80288633
RETOURNE DANS TON PAYS
>>80289095
No that shit is for losers, so is putting a blank before punctuation marks.
>>80289171
Nope I don't a fuck about football, nor about your leftist tier diversity BS
>>80289282
Stop .
Me .
Faggot .
>>80273800
Something automatically assigned to me since birth, just like my name.
>>80289323
Ok, learn to speak english before talking shit dude.
>>80289282
Then fuck off greenshit
>>80289546
Learn about shutting your mouth bourgeois scum, in the street you would simply keep it quite out of fear of being savagely beaten by the average worker.
>>80289171
While "je parle" forms the present continuous in French, in contemporary English it is better to say "I am talking."
>Germans could have been a seizable minority in our country if not for based Hitler telling them to GTFB to Germany
>They would all be liberals
wew lads.
Dodged a bullet there.
Pity we dodged into a rocket.
OP here, thanks to everyone for their posts. Gave me some insight.
>>80273800
I'm English. My wife is Scottsh.
My nationality is just where I was born. My kids have messed up accents - a hybrid. I know I shouldn't laugh, but their accent is weird. It's mainly Scottish as that's where we live.
Forgive me,please for laughing at my kids' accent. I love them beyond words. They just mix up dialects.
>>80273800
>I said that while this specific tweet was stupid
Good job conceding to far-left (((values))) BEFORE even presenting your argument, retarded tiny-dicked cuckold. More like Goymany amirite?
>>80289974
Fuck you.
Don't talk to such people, smack them in the face with a Stielhandgranate.
>>80289836
thanks t bh
>>80289840
Dude, even in romania germans would be a seizable minority as much as the hungarians living there now, if they wouldn't be sent back to germany. I saw recently a documentary showing their abandoned villages, I guess they left about 300 hundred years ago. Germans had settled all over europe, including crimea. Hitler had a plan for building a huge railway linking berlin to crimea in the nazi years
>>80289836
Literally incorrect, "I am speaking/talking" should be in the infinitive, "je parlais".
Tenses in french work differently from english. "Je parle avec john" is "I'm talking to john" just the same as "Je parlais avec john" is "I'm talking to john", but they imply different spaces of time. "Je parle" is more like "I talked just now right this second for a short length of time" and "Je parlais" is more like "I've been talking to him for a while"
>>80290161
The burito knows whats up
End dein Leben du Knecht
>>80290298
Is this bait?
First off, "parler" is the infinitive; you're dead wrong. "Parlais" is the imperfect. "Parlais" is equivalent to the English "I was talking."
Do you think your flag gives you authority on French even though you don't speak the language, Canacuck?
>>80290931
>parler
that's the base unconjugated verb homo
go back to africa
"parle" is "i talk", "parlais" is "I am/was talking". parlais is the continuous one, parle is instantaneous
fucking death to america
>>80273800
I pretty much agree with:
Herodotus (8.144.2) gave a famous account of what defined Greek (Hellenic) ethnic identity in his day, enumerating
shared descent (ὅμαιμον - homaimon, "of the same blood"),
shared language (ὁμόγλωσσον - homoglōsson, "speaking the same language")
shared sanctuaries and sacrifices (Greek: θεῶν ἱδρύματά τε kοινὰ kαὶ θυσίαι - theōn hidrumata te koina kai thusiai)[10]
shared customs (Greek: ἤθεα ὁμότροπα - ēthea homotropa, "customs of like fashion").
So, applying to your case:
Don't have the genes? Not german.
Don't speak the language? Not german.
Doesn't know & embrace the culture? Not german.
Those are all exclusory traits, fail one and you're out.
>>80291139
Oh, so you don't know basic linguistic terms. Why don't you google "French verb conjugation parler" and tell me what it says the infinitive is. I'll be waiting, retard.
>>80290161
I won't argue for something I don't believe in. The tweet was dumb, why would I lie about that. If you would've said I shouldn't have argued with an emotional girl at all, then I would've agreed. Now go help your mother clean some toilets, Pablo.
>>80290743
Ssshh, Schluchtenscheißer, alles ist gut.
Op ur a sperglord
how does it feel when you cant even talk with your proffesor of uni about races and why they might be diffrent?
>>80290184
>Stielhandgranate
German sounds hard as fucking nails. Fucking shame about your definate articles. I'd learn it if you had one word for 'the'. But you need over 6 million words for 'the'. Why?
>>80291439
For your second point I was actually going to say that, girls don't know shit about anything, arguing with a roastie about politics is as retarded as arguing quantum physics with a 5 year old kid. So congratulations, you're still a moron.
>>80273800
nationality is a joke insofar as we're talking sports. i don't care about where you come from, only who you're representing. if you aren't representing my team (that's the USA by the way) I don't really give a shit about you winning.
now as for people in my immediate area, of course I care about nationality. if you're trying to take my job but your "nationality" -- the place that you feel you belong to -- is not the USA, I want you the fuck outta here. fuck off, leech.
For example, I wouldn't go to Germany and work and funnel all of my german coins (you guys use the Euro, right? don't hate, I'm a stupid american) back to America. That's fucked up. I would make German money and spend German money in Germany. Why? Because that's where I'm at, that's where I belong (at least for the time being). If I move to Germany from USA, with the intent of coming back to USA, I am not going to funnel away cash and assets. maybe a souvenir here or there, but I'm not taking German shit with me. that's fucking retarded
>>80292015
English had cases like that in the past as well, before it got mongrelized.
>>80292015
Oh lord, that's only the start...
>>80292015
If the french didn't have invaded you in the battle of hastings you would still speaking like them now. Try learning it despite the the rules, it's in your blood and you'll eventually learn it
>>80292015
You know English prefixes are much more complex, right? English is the most difficult language in the world
>>80290096
>>80290096
>My nationality is just where I was born
>retardation the post
According to this logic a paki born in England is english
>>80292728
In his case I believe he could have a point, once scotland has major ties to england and their even speak the same language, that not to tell they are located in the same island and quite near geographically. It is much easier to maintain the national sense of a person if they live at least near enough to a place where their culture is not alien as a paki living in england, for instance
>>80292571
> English is the most difficult language
it's the easiest. That's why everyone learns it with ease. Roman languages are also quite easy, Latin really helps out a lot, except for French maybe, but the more you travel east, the harder it gets with Chinese and Japanese being the pinnacle of difficulty.
>>80273800
pic related is not an American. He could never be an american. He was an african who was born and raised in america that had an american citizenship.
If I move to Japan and become a Japanese citizen, I still can never be Japanese. If my kids are from a white women born and raised in japan they will still not be Japanese.
This is basic fucking shit.
You should check out the hammer podcast by zeiger. Its about using common sense rhetoric to destroy leftist arguments.
https://soundcloud.com/noose_zeiger/hammer-08-racial-differences
Never back down! Common sense and jungle law is on our side. Leftist ideas are complicated academic fappistry.
>>80290298
>>80291139
ARABE RETOURNE DANS TON PAYS
>>80293130
Japanese is definitively not the pinnacle of difficulty
>>80293130
The funny thing is that the germanic invasors that had introduced the definite and undefinite articles in the modern day romance languages. Latin doesnt have them.
I believe romance languages would be quite easy grammarly oriented for germanic speakers, but not that much when it comes to accents. But we can all agree any indo european language would be easier to learn than any other language out of the family tree
>>80293194
>a white women
You're retarded. Back to listening to podcasts, cletus.
>>80293194
Well, I think he could be an american because blacks are part of american history since the country was founded by the europeans who founded it.
He could not be european because blacks didn't have nothing to do with european history whatsoever.
That's something that messes up when it comes to jure solis concept.
America was founded, was created. Europe was developed by itself, not colonized. Different ethnicities out of the european gene pool are not part of the history of the continent, nor of the identity the continent holds
So one half is saying that ethnicity is decided by 3 factors.
1. Descent
2. Culture
3. Language
And others say that 1. can be replaced if the person strongly identifies themselves with 2. and 3. which to me seems stupid.
That'd mean I could become Japanese just by getting to know their culture and language perfectly and then identifying with it.
>>80295161
Ethnicity is genetics.
Culture is a sense of way of life related to how you live, and things like cuisine, things you like, ethics, etc.
Language is related to the other two, it plays a huge part.
Nationality is when the three things are bend together.
>>80293331
It's hard to say which one language is the most difficult. Without considering any dead languages, I'd say Arabic, Chinese, Georgian, Finnish, and Hungarian are way up there in terms of difficulty.
>>80273800
What is given has no value -- Jean Rasczak
Getting your nationality is nothing more than paperwork nowadays. It requires no duty, no knowledge of your culture or history, not even speaking the language. it's value or meaning it carried has been eroded by decades of liberal naturalization and immigration policies.
Even before they cancelled it, when male citizens were supposed to do their military service, every middle class class person was weaseling their way out and doing it. I volunteered, a friend told them he had nightmares about the holocaust to get his exemption.
At some point they started replacing french flags in public place with the European one. I can see one of those out my window.
Seeing none of those tings were taken seriously, that economics and vote buying meant more than duty or culture was what started redpilling me.
>>80295982
But you're talking about citizenship, not nationality.
>>80295161
Let's put it this way:
Think about learning a foreign language. After a few years, the language wont be foreign anymore, you've learned it, and then you can say the language have become yours. Fine, because that an abstract concept linked to cognitive matters.
The language is yours, okay. But does that mean you or your lineage have played a part in the history the language had to go through in order to develop itself and become what it is today? If you're a western guy and you learned let's say, chinese, than no.
As much as you won't obtain the genetics of a given people if you live among then and you happen to have a different ethnic background other them theirs, then you won't ever be part of the stage of construction of a given language just because you've learned it. But if you have some historic bounds with a given language, you will assimilate enough because these bounds were created naturally, historically.
Let us remember languages are history too, natural languages are the history of the people who spoke it. It is not just grammar, you know. That's why nationality is something hugely complex in a globalized world and a lot of people will missunderstand what it's all about
>>80280491
>>80280664
Same. I love(d) germany but what is happening to this country right now is insane. I seem to like this country more than most germans I met.
Look at this:
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article156905294/Unter-einer-Bedingung-koennen-abgelehnte-Asylbewerber-bleiben.html
Germany is going crazy.
>>80295982
Ideally they would be the same thing, if not, I value citizenship over nationality. I don't mind people being naturalized if they demonstrate they value french culture and are willing to assimilate, otherwise they should get a visa or fuck off.
I even respect people that don't like Lino Ventura, an old school actor, that kept his Italian nationality all his life "not to disappoint his parents".
What I disapprove is nationals born here that identify as their parents' nationality and french only when it benefits them personally.
>>80297798
I understand what you mean.
But living in a society is different than being part of it, that's why good immigrants (individual immigrants, not mass horders of uncontrolled immigration) are the ones that at least respect the culture of the place they live, and puts it over their own background culture.
Assimilation is not an easy thing, it could take many generations in many cases. But getting a certain citizenship must mean at least you've renounced the one you had before in order to be part of the new place you're living in. They do it in israel and it seems to be working. Before globalization it was that way too. The problem is when you import people from different places of earth and they bring their own culture, refuse to assimilate and dont respect the place and the people they're sharing the country. It's sad
>>80295161
> That'd mean I could become Japanese just by getting to know their culture and language perfectly and then identifying with it.
No but if you did and had a child born there, he'd be at least technically Japanese, his own children if he stays there would be even more Japanese.
I don't think first generation immigrants make good nationals/citizens. Their children might, that's how we have legit French people from the Polish, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese or even Algerian ancestry.
If someone join the French Foreing Legion and becomes French that way, he earned it that is that. There isn't so many of those that it ca nbe a problem anyway.
Immigration works fine as long as it is controlled and limited as to not displace or hurt the native population and its culture and is not driven by mercantile and state policies.
>>80298809
> Assimilation is not an easy thing, it could take many generations in many cases.
Agreed
> 80299080
I think speaking the language is critical to assimilation. Ancestry doesn't mean shit if you don't speak the language even after staying there for years.
I could also see why some countries have rules against dual-nationalities. It cheapens the value of citizenship and banning it would keep people that don't intend on assimilating away.
>>80273800
Slav here. You see the problem is germans have become all cucks, with almost no exceptions.
They forgot almost all of their traditions, they have no loyalty to their country whatsoever and they always find stupid excuses for everything that goes wrong. They only care about their own asses and they still kinda think they are superior, they don't admit it but they think just that, even this leftist scum that makes up this government.
They don't care if they have to walk over their own corpses just because of a stupid ideology. They don't care about their friends or their family, if something bad happens it just happened, nothing "I could have done to prevent this." They just say.
You see and that's where we slavs come in. We're the real conservatives, we actually care about european cultures that might be not even our own. Because we think about it for a moment.
We think back to Prussia, to france, how britain came together. We see it and acknowledge how great those countries used to be. Now they are mere shadows of themselves, now I don't think how it is exactly in those other western countries. But here in germany, literally nobody cares.
You could go on the street and ask a german about Königsberg, he would probably shake his head and think that's out of some fantasy universe.
We slavs on the other hand are interested in preserving what was once great. We want to spread patriotism, we want to make clear that we're on the side of germany. What do they call us? Nazis, racists "those countries that resemble straight on dictatorships."
Well and here is the thing, feminism is failing, that liberal multicultural bullshit, is failing. Germans just shake their heads in disbelieve and think "it'll work out." Which is also bullshit.
That goes for football and everything, they don't care how they get that title as long as they get it somehow. They don't care about common sense or logic, they just want to hold that stupid trophy.
cont.
>>80273800
A mouse born in a stable is not a horse, you dont become European just because you crossed this magical thing called a "border".
Deutsche volk SIEG HEIL!!!
>>80299080
I agree with everything you said. Immigration is workable when it is self sustaining and assimilation is assured. People tend to think that immigration is just landing in the place, but if it were just land in the place, it wouldnt be called immigration, it would be called conquer.
Immigration is just the beggining of the process, assimilation is the final goal. If people do not assimilate, the immigration process is not yet concluded. As long as you see people living in ghettoes, it doesnt matter how many generations they have passed in the given country, their final task of integrating is still not concluded, they're still immigrants holding an card saying they have obtained citzenship.
Immigration works better when people have similar cultural and ethnic backgrounds. As you said, a lot of italians and polish people can live in france for 2 or 3 generations and they could assimilate easily to a level of a frenchman due to cultural and ethnical similarity. It's not racist to acknowledge that it is easier to find a guy from lithuania who have move to Milano and his grandchildren have integrated as italians, than an guy that came from syria and his grandchildren doesnt even speak italian, for example. But integration is indeed possible for people from all ethnic backgrounds. It just have to be controlled and assimilation must be the main goal, that way the society won't die out and europe won't lose its national identity regardless of whats going on in the demographics sphere
>>80273800
It means that assholes sometimes judge me for being born where I was. Even if I would have chosen to move to America some day, that wasn't the decision I made when I was born. My parents made that decision for me and thank god they made the right decision. It's just not my decision and I shouldn't be faulted for it.
Im sorry for you germans. You were brainwashed and globalised after losing ww2. I had a talk with one German recently I asked him: "Are you okay that Germany is full of niggers and muslims, do you want them here, dont you think that white people in Germany will become minority?", his answer was: "What is white? It means that the sun isnt shining there 24/7? And whites culture is lost we dont have culture", my answer: "go fuck yourself"
>>80300071
Slavs are the future of europe. You have survived everything, from the mongols to the germans. Your people are the only ones I truly think that wont ever die out
>>80300071
the will of the german people was broken. if you lost something it's only a pain to think about it so not caring is easier on the soul.
>>80300071
cont.
The problem is, its getting worst. Look at Austria or Bremershafen where they cheat in votes everywhere they can.
Its getting more and more dangerous and the conservatives are just slowly gaining power
>>80301885
How come eastern nations deal easier with their whole history? We weren't so good either, we too had our empires and were aggressive. But we accept it, because we're not perfect.
Only western nations started castrating themselves in all kinds of ways.
>>80300071
> They forgot almost all of their traditions, they have no loyalty to their country whatsoever and they always find stupid excuses for everything that goes wrong.
That's a major problem the west is failing to deal with right now.
The idea of citizenship does not mean the same to all cultures. Some countries are better suited to integration than other.
* Germany is a federation of local powers, you'd expect cultural affinities to matter more than they do.
* The UK is really a patchwork of identities and a former mercantile empire, they always been more flexible about citizenship.
* France has different regions with strong cultural identities but is also a republic claiming universal values and also a former colonial empire. It was supposed to be designed for assimilation but that didn't work out as well as expected.
It's a mess, I'm not sure how we fix this.
>>80300071
Germans should learn from it. It is very confused to them to cope with some other traditional point of view over your own history
>>80273800
Go to sleep. Ask me about this when I'm awake.
>>80302245
I really don't know. I guess Europe has some kind of victor's syndrome where they were winning too much to feel justified about it. France and Britain at least feel forever guilty for their colonial business, without really losing there.
>>80303024
Well anyway, was just my opinion on the matter, hopefully the afd, fpö and so on will fix this.
>>80301060
and ruin 10 generations of pure italians just so some syrian subhuman can look less like a sandnigger? no thx
>>80274885
>So according to her someone who was born in Germany and whose ancestors lived in Afghanistan for hundreds if not thousands of years, someone who is raised with Afghan traditions and the language and name etc.. is still of German ethnicity if that person simply decides that.
If a pig is born in a barn it doesn't make it a cow.
>>80273800
kill urself gay jew
>>80303441
I'm against this syrian thing too, dude. It's not working the way it should. It should be subtle, not that harshy. Italy should accept less people. Salvini recently has published (I guess early today) a video in his official facebook page showing official data about the percentage of immigrants granted asylum. 6 percent, dude. 6 per cent. The other ones are in hotels with their bills being paid for by the state, for italian money. That's not immigration, that's invasion. Even though I'm from the north I'm not leghista, but I have to agreed to him in some of that matter. These people come over, life off the welfare state and have no incentives for assimilation into the culture whatsoever. It's not self sustaining
>>80291279
So if both of your parents are german, but you are born retarded or something so cant speak or understand the language, you aren't by definition a german?
>>80293480
I mean, if you have already learned one indo european language of course learning another one is easier than an asian language. But if you were raised speaking japanese, korean or a chinese dialect it is easier to learn another of those because it is in the same language tree.
My Japanese friend said learning Mandarin for him was far easier than learning English just because the languages were just so different.
>>80305603
Yes indeed, it all depends on what the learner already knows when it comes to defining how hard would it be to learn a different language. I was taking for granted in the comment that as we're speaking an indo european language, it would be easier for us learning another indo european language rather than an asian one
MEANWHILE IN AFRICA
>>80297798
>>80297798
>>80299080
>delusion the post
Assimilation is a myth, no european will ever be japanese what ever the fuck he does, even his kids will never be japanese except if they don't have japanese ancestors.
An arab or a nigger will never be a europeann it's not a cultural thing but a purely ethnical one, only immigrant from close ethnicities can claim to be part of the country they live.
