Puts those brain cells to work, doesn't it?
qarmatians also attacked mecca, they were mudslimes too
>>79995458
It's almost if Islam is divided into sects that hate each other as much as they hate us
This sort of dissimilutation literally only works because normies know nothing about the Sunni-Shia divide
>>79995458
ISIS = kike controlled to turn the middle east into a shit hole so they can gobble up the land.
>>79995614
hmmmmmmm
>destroy iraq
>under false pretense of wmds
>force """""democracy""""" down people's throats
>make breeding ground for terrorists
>hurr durr why do these muslims hate us so
fucking retards.
>>79996087
REALLY
>>79996190
MAKES
They do realize that ISIS views those Muslims as heretics and untrue Muslims? That they may even think those heretic Muslims are worse than Heathens?
>>79996165
>Muslims were never violent before the year 2000
Taqiyya, everybody
>>79996487
nice strawman dumbass. i never said muslims weren't violent
all i'm saying is that you invading iraq is the reason why ISIS exist in the first place.
>>79996646
No, your goatfucking religion is why ISIS exists in the first place.
The invasion of Iraq comes in second.
>>79996646
Let's be real here. ISIS is a collection of Islamic groups that finally figured out the power of unity. Don't go twisting reality, you stupid cockroach.
The KKK and the LRA killed other Christians. Doesn't mean they're not Christian.
>>79995458
>They don't represent True X when it makes X look bad.
I don't accept this rationalization as valid. There is no God to actually tell you who represents the religion and who doesn't so anyone who takes up the mantle of the Group represents the Group. Some have just taken things more literally than others.
Up until they started being violent the "extremist" and the "moderate" are identical. Why trust the moderate when he's one step away from being the extremist? Why give him the chance of day, we gave it to the extremist and they crossed they the line. What's to say the moderate isn't next since -- THE MODERATE CONFORMS TO THE GROUP JUST AS MUCH.
Do not ask to be judged as individuals when you conform blindly to the group.
>>79995458
it's almost as if isis is a creation of israel and the USA (mossad and CIA)
>>79996295
You meme
>>79995458
It's almost like it's a civil war that I have no input in because I'm not Muslim.
>>79996808
ISLAM IS PEACE
AMERICA IS DEVIL
>>79996646
Islam is why ISIS exists, should we wipe out Islam?
>>79996870
there is immediate chain of causation between the creation of ISIS and the invastion of iraq - but for US invasion and the power vacuum left by the death of sadaam, ISIS wouldn't exist. on top of that, today's report shows that it was known that a terrorist cell could take over iraq and pose threat to the whole world (as we are seeing now), so you can't argue that it was unforeseeable.
but i guess you're too dumb to even figure that out. good job taking out the one of the two last secular leaders in the ME though.
>>79997135
NETHERLANDS IS SHITPOSTERS
It's in their religion's mandate to blow shit up and kill people.
I'm more surprised the "most holy site in Islam" isn't being attacked every single day.
BTW Mecca is an Abrahamic holy site and Muslims arguably have the least right to call it their holy site since Jews and Christians would take precedence due to them being older religions more connected historically to that site. Just a little factoid to rustle muzzy jimmies with.
>>79996996
What bad thing did the guy to the far left do?
>>79997489
that's Ben Garrison
>>79997489
Texan who shot those filthy Muslims.
He really was doing gods work.
>>79997135
How do you call a mudslime in a wheelchair in Dutch?
is lam
>>79995458
>medina
>holiest place
>not Mecca
That is the poorest taquiyya I have ever seen
>>79997489
He's a fucking white male
>>79996165
>wahhabism and salafism were created because of western intervention
>>79997297
I agree with all of that but that doesn't justify IS and what they do. I never supported the invasion of Iraq. You could argue that my personal opinions are irrelevant but to that I say fuck you.
>>79995945
The divide between Sunni and Shia is political. Most of the divide comes from disagreements as to who were really noble companions of Muhammad. There is nothing in the Quran that says you can't kill Muslims and if there is it's definitely an earlier Sura which is irrelevant now.
>>79997631
I have never heard of any texan shooting Muslims in the name of the Christian god and I am pretty sure that would be crammed down my ears by lefties of true.
>>79998035
>Saddam was wahhabist
You probably think that Saddam did 9/11 too lel
>>79998237
He never said that you filthy tunisian.
>>79995458
Mohammad is the last Jewish King of Yemen
>Saudis destroy Islamic holy sites for centuries
>This represents Islam
>ISIS attempts to destroy Islamic holy sites
>This doesn't represent Islam
>>79998410
read the post he replied to cuck. i was talking about iraq and he starts his old wahhabism/salafism tale
in fact, if amerifats hated wahhabism so much, they'd invade saudi arabia instead of iraq. but hey, that's contrary to the narrative. maybe i shouldn't mention that 9/11 terrorists were exclusively saudi
>>79997297
>We fund and support ISIS especially when they kill Kurds but it is America's fault for creating the power vacuum that made it possible!
T. T*rkroach
What you really mean to say is that us leaving created ISIS. If America had stayed as conqueror of Iraq and taken our rightful place as an empire ISIS wouldn't be a thing.
Maybe if they weren't so Islamophobic ISIS would leave them alone.
>>79998656
your comment stretches to a larger point which is that islamic terrorism is a result of western intervention
the ideologies of wahhabism and salafism directly prove that wrong.
>>79998713
>What you really mean to say is that us leaving created ISIS.
exactly, you fucking fatass. as one commentator said, there are still fucking amerifat troops and bases in Korea and Japan 60 years after the wars there are over. and then when you leave iraq after 8 years you whine about islam? holy shit nigger, how fucking dumb are you?
I disagree with the iraq invasion. But if you're going to "spread democracy", don't fucking leave when the said democracy is most vulnerable.
>>79999112
islamic terror has been going on since before the iraq invasion.
>>79995458
Muslims whom don't partake in the way of Jihad are viewed as "hypocrites" in the Quran and are subject to punishment, since they technically transgress against the way of Allah just by existing. They are referred to as the "munafiqun".
>When the hypocrites come to you, [O Muhammad], they say, "We testify that you are the Messenger of Allah ." And Allah knows that you are His Messenger, and Allah testifies that the hypocrites are liars.
>They have taken their oaths as a cover, so they averted [people] from the way of Allah . Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.
>That is because they believed, and then they disbelieved; so their hearts were sealed over, and they do not understand.
>And when you see them, their forms please you, and if they speak, you listen to their speech. [They are] as if they were pieces of wood propped up - they think that every shout is against them. They are the enemy, so beware of them. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?
http://www.harunyahya.com/en/Daily-Comments/13625/allah-will-expose-and-punish
This is why ISIS is justified in killing other Muslims, just like how Shia/Sunnis are allowed to kill each other .They don't consider the other one a true Muslim.
>>79995458
Not true muslims says ISIS.
ISIS will say that they are the one and only true followers of islam.
Check and mate.
>>79999098
are you retarded? how many terrorists attacks happened before ww2? Hell, as one historian noted, where were all the islamic terrorists during the battles of El Alamein, tobruk, etc?
educate yourself. read Osama's message - he clearly says that what he is doing is a response to US bases in Saudi arabia and the puppet regime that's created as a result
>>79995458
>turn the middle east into a shit hole
That's like saying you want to make shit stink.
>>79999416
you might be retarded. genuinely.
>>79999339
rofl great.
napolean=
norman descent
inferiority complex
top tier white
>>79999592
well ad hominem is a good indicator that you've just lost the argument. alas, the wonders of american ""education""" i guess
it's funny because amerifats should be the first people to wonder why Osama attacked them. but they think it's because of their freedums. hilarious.
>>79995458
>Madinah
>holiest site in Islam
>not Mecca
>>79999999
>>79998200
The lord does not need to advertise his plan.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/04/us/garland-mohammed-drawing-contest-shooting/
>>79999729
>le napoleon complex meme
>>79996165
Our government is owned by elites, why does your all-knowing, all-merciful Allah order you to kill innocents who are not to blame for Iraq? Hmmmmmm really makes a turkroach skitter
>>79995458
Haven't ISIS been destroying historical Muslim artifacts for years? No one woke up then...
>>79996033
Almost excusable.
>>79999416
>read Osama's message
He started out as being anti Soviet, I'd argue it was their fault the power vacuum occurred in Afgahnistan and this gave rise to anti Nationalist secular Arab movement.
But anti western ideas have pervaded the Middle East for over a thousand years. We only saw about half a century of relative peace post Great War and prior to the Soviet invasion, since the Turks lost the Great War and the west installed secular Nationalist governments that actually greatly improved the state of the ME.
Jihadism and Islamic Fundamentalism was certainly influenced by US interventionism, since ministers and advisers didn't realize the extent of which Islam was so antagonizing toward other civilizations. When they made the mistake of destabilizing the region, they paved the way for the return of Islamic Fundamentalism in place of Arabic Nationalism.
To summarize, Wahhabism and Surafism is not because of the US interventionism. Their pervasiveness is contemporary ME is certainly caused by Wahhabism, but Jihadism has always existed and always will. Muslims have always hated us.
>>79998137
Absolutely false, I've got a Muslim friend (less so nowadays, she's gone full Saudi) who is Sunni, and her fiancee is toying with the idea of converting from Sunni to Shia, and if he does she'll leave him. There is absolutely a strong cultural divide, to a Sunni a Shia might as well be Christian.
>>79997297
Obama pulled out of Iraq prematurely. If it wasn't for that isis wouldn't exist. Stupid nigger president.
>>79995458
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJpJA7b8eEs
Don't worry fellow goyim, Father Wood is here to explain.
>>79999416
>are you retarded? how many terrorists attacks happened before ww2
A lot
>>80001174
>There is absolutely a strong cultural divide
When did I say this wasnt? Saying it's a political divide does not imply there aren't cultural differences of both.
>having Muslims "friends"
>believing a thing they say to you
>>80001096
>Wahhabism and Surafism is not because of the US interventionism.
it isn't. i never said it is. i simply cannot understand the nerve of you talking about wahhabism in context of the Iraq war. Again, i'll repeat this as if you're a 5 year old downs syndrome rapebaby - what did saddam have to do with wahhabism or 9/11, and if he didn't have to do anything with these ideologies, and if there's such a vehement disgust with these ideologies, why doesn't US invade Saudi arabia?
Answer this question, and you'll see that you aren't this knight in shining armor that wants "democracy" for the savage muslims. You're a hypocrite,
>>80001242
i completely agree. korea and japan, even germany, have US bases for more than half a century now. You can't just pull out so easily.
There's a clear agenda of destabilization of the middle east.
>>80001371
such as?
>>79995945
Medina is holy to all muslims
>>80001371
I haven't got all day, fatso.
>>79995614
This really makes me think.
>>79995458
ISIS is antimuslim, sure.
But most muslims aren't anti ISIS.
>>80002185
>>80001656
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#1800.E2.80.9399
>>79995458
Muslims blowing up other muslims doesn't mean one side isn't muslim.
>>79997759
Muslims often use the frase: Mo slim christen dom.
>>80001506
Why do you one minute accuse someone of using ad hominems but yet pervade your response with them for me? >>79999848
I understand though, arguing with people here can piss me off too, especially if they refuse to provide little in the way of reasoning
Also, pardon me but for some reason I said here >>80001081
>Their pervasiveness is contemporary ME is certainly caused by Wahhabism,
That's meant to be
>Their pervasiveness is contemporary ME is certainly caused by the US.
I'm extremely tired, sorry.
>>80001506
>what did saddam have to do with wahhabism or 9/11, and if he didn't have to do anything with these ideologies, and if there's such a vehement disgust with these ideologies, why doesn't US invade Saudi arabia?
You're right, it is very, VERY hypocritical of the US to hate on Saddam one minute yet defend Saudi Arabia. My argument though is that Islamic Fundementalism in all forms was not created by the west, it simply used the US's mistake of intervening in Iraq and the Soviet's mistake of intervening in Afghanistan as a catalyst to spur a populace new movement across the ME.
Had neither of those two things happen, I suspect the ME would have continued in relative peace, since most Islamic movements who suppressed by authoritarian nationalist governments like Syria, Libya and Iraq.
>and you'll see that you aren't this knight in shining armor that wants "democracy" for the savage muslims. You're a hypocrite,
I don't believe in democracy for the ME, I believe that the Arab is best oppressed by dictatorial regimes or strong Imperial governments, since as we have seen, in it's absence we see the rise of Islam.
Silly people use the justification of "bringing freedom, democracy and burgers to Iraq" to justify the war, but these people make the fundamental mistake of presuming innocence in the Arab population, forgetting just how hostile they are if spurred on by Islam.
>>80002481
and how many of them were perpetrated by muslims?
>>79995458
they're not fooling anyone but libshits who already believe their banter.
>implying sectarian violence doesn't exist
>implying the more violent sect is somehow unislamic
>implying this shit didn't happen decades ago
>implying this shit didn't happen centuries ago
>implying shias are going to try and kill every sunni the moment we all turn a blind eye
>>79996646
politicised islam is why ISIS exists, and who can blame them? It was a part of islam since its founding.
>>79995582
Exactly. Qarmatians hated the worship of that stone, as ISIS does. This also proves there is no Allah, since he promised to protect the mecca and we know the qarmatians wrecked it.
>>80000959
>No one woke up then...
kuran says you can't worship religious artefact when you're a muslim. So nobody said shit because otherwise it would be blasphemy.
ISIS has this convenient thing called "kuran" which they strictly follow. Kuran is supposed to have been dictated from the mouth of "allah" himself.
Which means when you are a muslim and you criticize ISIS, you indirectly criticize the kuran and therefore "allah", which is blasphemy. There is a reason no religious authority voices critics against ISIS. ISIS is just strictly applying what's in the holy book of islam : caliphate, shariah, oppression of women, religious minorities have to pay djiziah (a tax when you're christian or jew) and kill all infidels and people who go against islam, etc...
>>80002734
>Islamic Fundementalism in all forms was not created by the west
i never said it was. it's a tiny sect of a guy named wahhab who got BTFO by ottomans very long time ago. Musims were fighting these guys before you even knew they existed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman%E2%80%93Wahhabi_War
The problem is that while we managed to BTFO them, the US revived them in their own interest.
>>79996033
Except the middle east is already an irredeemable shithole and has been for decades.
>>79996165
Case in point. Thanks for your input, Turkish Silly Anon.
>>80002976
>This also proves there is no Allah, since he promised to protect the mecca
But in the fundamentalist islamic mind, Allah sent ISIS to protect mecca. They're killing people ("bad muslims") exactly to protect mecca (in their mind).
>>80003094
And yet your own government supports "moderate rebels" in Syria against based Assad, someone who guaranteed relative secular standards for a middle eastern country, and which the Americans want to see get Gaddhafied.
>>79995458
>Muslims know less of their faith than an alt-right containment board of sperg
>>80001174
>I've got a Muslim friend
Kill yourself m8
>>80002798
If you count terrorist attacks as "conflict between Islam and the west", then... Hundreds? if not thousands?
>>80003094
Wahhabism is just a kind of Islamic fundamentalism, which is by the way, absolutely justified in regard to the teachings of the Quran.
Remember that Wahhabism is the "pure" form of Islam
>>79995458
Nazis attacked other white people, so it has nothing to do with white supremacy.
>>79995458
They're trying to radicalize moderates and drive muslim refugees into non muslim lands, so they might breed excessively and conquer those lands.
>>79996165
>He thinks muslims suddenly attack the western world only after the Iraq/afganistan wars
Holy fuck its not a meme that turks are degenerate roaches that will defend satan himself.
its like the word sectarian is completely absent in western societies liberal observation of religion and islam
honest to fucking god its not rocket science that a religion literally can have a war with itself
your average american is too stupid to even understand the middle east let alone the people and religions in it, and fixing the issue sure hell isnt going to come from them
>>80002734
>I believe that the Arab is best oppressed by dictatorial regimes or strong Imperial governments
You just have to accept that we are different. Just like the chinese, the russians, and the many non anglos (including germans before ww2) there is a dislike of democracy. We have a different history.
it's like seeing some amerifat trying to plant an oak tree in the desert - the environments for the growth of institutions such as human rights are completely different, yet we have to accept according to the West that everyone is equal, everyone is the same, and everyone wants human rights.
It's a gradual process. The magna carta did not come to fruition until the King went cray cray. The american revolution did not start until the king went cray cray. Why don't you Westerners give the opportunity to the Arabs to handle their own business when their king goes cray cray?
>>79995458
>ISIS isn't Muslim
They are, and this is all a move to get other countries to sympathize with Muslims, so they can continue to push people into other countries under the guise of 'refugees'.
>>80003396
>Remember that Wahhabism is the "pure" form of Islam
That's why the -Caliph of all Muslims-, the Ottoman sultan, fought and killed Wahhabists during the wahhab revolt? You're telling me that the foremost muslim power with all its imams and islamic scholars knew less about islam than some tribal wahhab guy in the desert?
There is no pure islam, just like there is no pure judaism or christianity. It's all down to interpritation and it always has been.
>>80003647
wtf is this image? pls tell me it's a fake.
>>79996165
that history they teach you there is wrong you fucking roach.
How many more terrorist attacks before the big happening /pol/?
>>80004519
what's wrong, tthat he WMDs were not discovered, or that iraq's power vacuum post-US invasion didn't lead to the rise of ISIS?
>>79995614
almost like Islam is such a violent religion that they can't even get along with each other.
>>79995458
Can we change "No true Scotsman" fallacy to "No true Muslim" fallacy?
>>80004668
And the Saudi goverment was lobbying our goverment to remove Saddam the entire time. Muslim oil money is all over every single move the US has made in the middle east.
>>80004668
no everything before that event in history you dumb fuck.
>>80003654
I agree completely.
>>80003846
>That's why the -Caliph of all Muslims-, the Ottoman sultan, fought and killed Wahhabists during the wahhab revolt? You're telling me that the foremost muslim power with all its imams and islamic scholars knew less about islam than some tribal wahhab guy in the desert?
The Ottoman Empire, by this time, wasn't exactly ruled with the most literal interpretation of Islam.
By the time the conflict between Diriyah and the Turks came, the Ottomans were, for the most part, quite secularized and multicultural, mostly Nationalistic. It had grown out of it's Jihadist ways due to it's vast wealth and trade power, remember that during the 18th century there were vast educational and technological reform. You talk to any historian and they'd agree that by the 1800, the Ottoman Empire wasn't a Fundamentalist Caliph in the way it was two centuries before. I'd argue this was the closest the Ottoman Empire become "western" in all of it's history.
Naturally, this caused Islamic antagonism and that's why during this period the Wahhabis rose to power. Just like reactionaries would rise up in any regard, Diriyah wanted to reform Islam back to how it should be.
That's what Saudi Arabia is today. Pure Islam, or at least, relatively.
>>80003846
>There is no pure islam, just like there is no pure judaism or christianity. It's all down to interpritation and it always has been.
There's Fundamentalist faiths though, and Islam has a Fundamental core belief system which is undeniable. Wahhabism is an example of this.
>>79995458
hurka durhka
>>79996165
>>under false pretense of wmds
Sounds inaccurate m8
>>80004604
French intelligence service said a few attacks, less if they attack something like little kids in a school, before full blown civil war in France.
>>80004519
As a "surrendering monkey" whose wine was poured in the gutter for not following you in an illegal wat, you're full of shit.
I don't mind for the wine, it was either the gutter or an american mouth. At least it was the least of both evils.
>>80002734
>>80004970
>And the Saudi goverment was lobbying our goverment to remove Saddam the entire time.
EXCUSE ME
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm
>>80004970
>Muslim oil money is all over every single move the US has made in the middle east.
So saudi's forced the most powerful nation on earth to invade Iraq? Interesting. Maybe you guys aren't so powerful if a bunch of jews/saudis can make such important decisions for you.
>>80005049
>By the time the conflict between Diriyah and the Turks came, the Ottomans were, for the most part, quite secularized and multicultural, mostly Nationalistic.
nationalism didn't exist in 1811 during the wahhab war, because the values of the french revolution still have not arrived yet and were relatively fresh. nationalism is a very recent thing, people confuse this a lot. it only started appearing after the Napolenic wars. the first signal of change in turkey towards nationalism/secularism is 1839 tanzimat reforms. (which is also the reason why i hate illeterate retards who think ataturk did everything, he just continued what ottomans started)
>by the 1800, the Ottoman Empire wasn't a Fundamentalist Caliph in the way it was two centuries before.
except ottomans never was "fundamentalist". We didn't chop hands off for stealing because our --interpritation-- was that Hadd crimes (which translates as LIMIT) are the highest LIMIT of punishment for a crime. so the WORST punishment for stealing is chopping hands off, and it's the last resort (for example people still argue that it should be used in cases of government corruption).
>>80004970
>And the Saudi goverment was lobbying our goverment to remove Saddam the entire time.
EXCUSE ME
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm
>>80005673
Yeah Israel didn't like Saddam, not a surprise Saddam launched missiles at them right before the gulf war in attempt to gain Arab solidarity.
>>80005897
>saudi's forced the most powerful nation on earth to invade Iraq?
You must really be naive, Natural resources are what build nations and Saudi controls the largest reserves of the most important resource on the planet.
>>80006015
protip: jews and saudis are biggest butt-buddies in the entire middle east. the whole arab-israeli conflict is non-existant
>>80004207
http://www.juntakareporter.com/world/unesco-declares-islam-as-the-most-peaceful-religion-of-the-world/
got it from here, not sure if the source is any good
>>79995458
That really oxygenated my cerebrum
>>80006419
I just wanted to let you know that you're a relief compared to that Turkish shitposter (the dead amerifats one).
>>80006621
he's just another attentionwhore
>>80006015
its nice to see people here still remember the Bush neocon docs since I made a series of threads on them in 2013
>pic related
its amazing how people dont know what Iraq was really invaded for
>>80006816
All these beautiful, innocent faces...thank God the world is in "good hands".
>>80005897
>and multicultural, mostly Nationalistic.
nationalism didn't exist in 1811 during the wahhab war, because the values of the french revolution still have not arrived yet and were relatively fresh. nationalism is a very recent thing, people confuse this a lot.
I use the term "Nationalism" as just a general term for working in the interests of the nation state instead of a God or etc, it's a good term. I know it's technically being used in the wrong context here since Nationalism itself is a post Enlightenment idea.
>the first signal of change in turkey towards nationalism/secularism is 1839 tanzimat reforms.
I'm not sure, but as far as I'm aware, the Tanzimat actually worked to suppress Turk Nationalism by enforcing multiculturalism ideals? I know they were secular though, and moved away from both Islam and Nationalism.
>except ottomans never was "fundamentalist". We didn't chop hands off for stealing because our --interpritation-- was that Hadd crimes (which translates as LIMIT) are the highest LIMIT of punishment for a crime
This is, what I feel, is partly the reason the Ottomans succeeded so much in the later parts of it's life. It become highly western after the Tanzimat. But the Ottomans used to be quite Fundamental, and post unification of the Ghazi Emirates but I'm talking medieval Ottomans which as far as I'm aware, quite fundamental in it's interpretation of Islam.
I'm not sure if I'll be able to respond after this, sorry mate.
>>80007170
dont you just want to cuddle and kiss richard perle?
>>80007193
>and multicultural, mostly Nationalistic.
Not sure what happened here, green text is meant to be this:
>nationalism didn't exist in 1811 during the wahhab war, because the values of the french revolution still have not arrived yet and were relatively fresh. nationalism is a very recent thing, people confuse this a lot.
>>80007193
Gotta remember that even though the ottomans may not have had extreme punishment, the islamic law was the same as the state law, it took mustafa kemal to seperate the two and make islamic law religious only.
>>79995614
Really think, this makes me.
