Can anyone give a solid argument why impeding, opposing, or limiting transgender people from altering their body is a logical position?
Why are you trying to assert authority over someone else's own body?
How do you ignore the massive amount of research pertaining to trans physiology+neurology including empirical evidence showing the benefit of transition?
I don't care what a tranny wants to do. If they want to take pills, cut their dicks off, and take lessons on how to sound girlish, that's fine. They can do that.
That doesn't mean they don't hold dangerous ideologies or aren't mentally unstable, though. Hell, trans people are trying to get their condition recognized as a mental illness so hormone therapy and sex change operations are covered by health insurance.
By their own admission they are ill.
>>79467427
>By their own admission they are ill.
Okay, but what is wrong with being ill and seeking the most effective treatment? Would you discriminate against a quadriplegic in the same fashion you might against a tranny?
The problem isn't trannies it's the communists who use them as a distraction and the useful idiots who argue for either side as if they haven't been around for fucking ever
>>79467427
Its been classified as a mental illness for decades, Recently there have been moves to remove it similarly to how homosexuality was removed form the DSM, a compromise kept it in, in the form of gender dysphoria rather than gender identity disorder.
>>79468746
Yes.
>>79468675
Okay, so why would you take that out on trannys then?
i'm not
>>79467867
>>50% suicide rate post-op
>"most effective treatment"
>>79466963
I used to be against the entire LGBT thing, but then I realized I was repressing feelings and I actually find traps and feminine boys really attractive. Now I'm pretty much an ally, but still a neo-fascist.
>>79466963
>>79469233
Ok both of these are cute as fuck desu
>>79467867
Quadriplegics don't mutilate their bodies, or demand society pretend that they can walk when they clearly can't.
>50 (dead)%
>>79467867
The most effective treatment is CBT for mental disorders. Not mutilation and becoming a social pariah.
>>79467867
>the most effective treatment
>Wrong is right and right is wrong
>>79467867
The most-effective treatment for anorexia is liposuction.
>>79469449
Give it time.
>>79469273
>better not do cancer treatment because we can only reduce the risk of death somewhat and not to zero
>>79467867
>what is wrong with anything
A quadraplegic has either been through a devastating tragedy or been born as a useless sack of flesh destined to never do anything but drain taxpayer money. Either way, they physically cannot grow limbs and are stuck.
A mentally ill person seeking to willingly change a perfectly functional body because of chemical imbalances is nowhere near an equivalent comparison.
>>79469307
>"I used to be able to call a spade a spade"
>Then I started fapping to trap porn
>Now I am a degenerate
>"but im totally a neo-fascist guys, I swear!"
If you don't believe in the basic tenants of an ideology then don't pretend to be a member of that ideology. Go suck cawk and vote for bernie
>>79466963
Transgender is a symptom of body sysmorphia, the same disease anerexics have. And we don't let anerexics starve themselves.
Sex change is a biological impossibility. Cutting your cock off will never make you a woman but it will make you less of a man. You would be a dickless mutilated freak.
>>79469307
Finding things that are fem as attractive is mostly a straight man's kink friendo.
>>79469307
>I used to-
Faggot you're just another degenerate pleb trying to further pervert society and national socialism
Faggotry isnt allowed in Natsoc, queer.
>>79469876
>>79469987
>assuming I fap to trap porn
>implying I didn't just fall in love and become much happier with myself
Also I didn't see anywhere in Fascism 101 that transgendered people or fluid gender roles were undesirables. You gotta source?
Wanting to change your gender is wrong. It means you're fucked up in the head. I don't want to live in a country that celebrates mental disorders and pretends like it's nothing to be ashamed of. It is objectively, biologically and morally wrong.
>>79467867
Emily a qt
>>79469983
And thank you, I identified as straight for a very long time but there's a lot of pressure from people saying that the dick (and the fact that I would suck it if they were girly enough) makes the whole thing gay. I still like girls though so bi, but leaning straight is what I think I am.
>>79470232
Feel bad for its dad desu.
>>79469716
>cancer treatment decreases fatality rate
>tranny treatments increase suicide rates
>these somehow are the same
Are you mentally challenged my dear boy?
>>79466963
If you can afford to be a tranny go ahead. I'm 100% for it.
I'm also 100% for you paying for it yourself and staying the fuck out of my wallet.
>>79466963
speaking purely logically
it is a complete waste of medical supplies, facilities, and equipment
it also steals skilled surgeons from the medical community
>>79470390
Post your source my Texan friend.
I won't hold my breath though, because it improves outcomes
>>79466963
LEAVE POL FAGGOT
YOUR BOARD >>>/lgbt/
>>79469273
This is objectively false. You are conflating the 41% suicide rate from the Williams survery and the research on post-surgery regret from Cecilia Djehne. This is the researchers own words,
The study as a whole covers the period between 1973 and 2003. If one divide the cohort into two groups, 1973 to 1988 and 1989 to 2003, one observes that for the latter group (1989 – 2003), differences in mortality, suicide attempts and crime disappear.
Further, the most recent 2003-2011 cohort had regret rates of .3%
>A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejnes work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
The data aggregate shows us transition IS effective
>>79470232
God damnit.
They are living a lie and lies should never be tolerated. Even if we put god aside we can still say this goes against nature. They can't accept the way way nature made them but ironically they want the society to accept their behavior.
>>79470100
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle
Faggotry is forbidden.
you have to go back
>>79466963
I'd rather them get shot than me paying tax dollars to fund their delusions
>>79470882
Shut the fuck up Texas
>>79469478
Blind people have statistically elevated suicide rates too. What are you saying? Pointing to a single number without factoring in any context or other variables is absolutely worthless.
Even the primary research that shows those suicide rates for LGBT people:
>http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf
says very clearly,
> Although the limited NTDS data related to mental health precluded a full testing of this hypothesis, many specific experiences of rejection, discrimination, victimization, and violence were found to be significantly related to having disabling mental health condition (see Table 21). Examples included a weakening of family relationships after coming out as transgender, being a victim of violence by a family member, becoming homeless after coming out, being harassed at work, and being refused medical care because of anti-transgender bias.
If anything that suicide rate illustrates we should be more tolerant of transgender people.
>>79466963
I don't give a fuck what you do, but don't try to make it sound like cutting off your dick is something normal - it's not.
>>79470882
>one fascist regime in history opposed this group of people
>it might even be slander against that regime, because that regime had several notable high-ranking homosexual officers
cool, bro! didn't say I was a Nazi, I said I was a fascist. The Nazis were not the best fascist order, either.
>>79470100
>implying I didn't just fall in love and become much happier with myself
You fell for a trap without the slow desensitizing effect of trap porn?
You aren't making your case that you had a sudden epiphany and pulled a 180 any stronger. You are only nat-soc in your own incongruent personal mockery of fascism's basic philosophy. Pick a political form that isn't antithetical to your existence next time.
>Also I didn't see anywhere in Fascism 101 that transgendered people or fluid gender roles were undesirables. You gotta source?
Did you miss the part where Hitler rounded up all the gays and stuck them in concentration camps? Or where Mussolini did the same and shipped them all on buttfuck Island?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isole_Tremiti#History
>>79471092
in the united states you can have both :)
>>79471351
Die faggot, you are scum and when the day of the rope comes you and your kind will be eradicated. Disgusting flith.
>>79466963
If they can pull it off I don't care. I also don't think they should go as far as to chop their dicks off, but if they do, then I don't care so long as I'm not paying for it.
Plus I jerk off to a LOT of shemale porn.
>>79466963
Abominations
The artifice of the enemy's will
>>79470120
>It is objectively, biologically and morally wrong.
Evidence? How is it morally wrong? How is it biologically wrong if the individual is consenting? If a sentient individual chooses to transition its objectively correct because the organism owns and defines its self.
Biologically wrong? I mean sure I guess? By that logic computer technology is "physically wrong" because it doesn't happen without human tinkering.
>>79471248
>>79471351
Do you know where you are faggot?
The majority of them regret it and kill themselves, encouraging trannies is encouraging suicide. I guess that's not really a bad thing now that i think about it...
>>79471359
Okay yeah you'e not wrong about the slowly desensitizing effect of trap porn.
But yeah, like I said to the other anon, one or two fascist regimes supposedly killed gays. My point still stands, it's not a contradiction to support LGBT and be fascist. Some fascist regimes however decided to take the other route.
>>79471478
>wiping out a far-right /pol/itician because he likes to suck feminine dick
none of us would survive if you killed someone because of one thing someone sees as a flaw
>>79471787
good argument
>>79469233
>Okay, so why would you take that out on trannys then?
I don't
>>79471340
>Single number
>My pic had multpie numbers
>>79471789
>citations pending
The aggregate of empirical evidence illustrates transgender people benefit from transition:
>Heylans et al., 2014: "A difference in SCL-90 [a test of distress, anxiety, and hostility] overall psychoneurotic distress was observed at the different points of assessments (P = 0.003), with the most prominent decrease occurring after the initiation of hormone therapy (P < 0.001)...Furthermore, the SCL-90 scores resembled those of a general population after hormone therapy was initiated."
>Colizzi et al., 2013: "At enrollment, transsexuals reported elevated CAR ['cortisol awakening response', a physiological measure of stress]; their values were out of normal. They expressed higher perceived stress and more attachment insecurity, with respect to normative sample data. When treated with hormone therapy [at followup, 1 year after beginning HRT], transsexuals reported significantly lower CAR (P < 0.001), falling within the normal range for cortisol levels. Treated transsexuals showed also lower perceived stress (P < 0.001), with levels similar to normative samples."
>Gomez-Gil et al., 2012: "SADS, HAD-A, and HAD-Depression (HAD-D) mean scores [these are tests of depression and anxiety] were significantly higher among patients who had not begun cross-sex hormonal treatment compared with patients in hormonal treatment (F=4.362, p=.038; F=14.589, p=.001; F=9.523, p=.002 respectively). Similarly, current symptoms of anxiety and depression were present in a significantly higher percentage of untreated patients than in treated patients (61% vs. 33% and 31% vs. 8% respectively)."
>de Vries, et al., 2014 studied 55 trans teens from the onset of treatment in their early teenage years through a follow-up an average of 7 years later. They found no negative outcomes, no regrets, and in fact their group was slightly mentally healthier than controls.
I always get jealous and sad seeing people who transition, but I know it's not what God wants and I'd be waaay more unhappy disappointing my parents and fiancee than I am now.
>>79472003
It had a single number pertaining to transgender people, 41%. Which comes from the Williams study in which they directly say:
> Although the limited NTDS data related to mental health precluded a full testing of this hypothesis, many specific experiences of rejection, discrimination, victimization, and violence were found to be significantly related to having disabling mental health condition (see Table 21). Examples included a weakening of family relationships after coming out as transgender, being a victim of violence by a family member, becoming homeless after coming out, being harassed at work, and being refused medical care because of anti-transgender bias.
I took my niece out for ice cream today and saw this fellow wearing a rainbow dress and pink t-shirt with a bunch of padlocks and chains hanging from his belt. He had a bunch of rings on his fingers and he was wearing boots. Everyone was uncomfortable, even the little girl with Down syndrome who could pick up the tension in the air. After he finished his ice cream, he went and sat outside and started eating Chinese food from a concealed styrofoam box. A tough bald boomer and his white-haired wife walked by on the sidewalk. Once they passed the colourful pirate guy, the old guy did a double take and kept looking back over his shoulder as they hurried away.
>>79471789
still awaiting your citations....
>Lawrence, 2003 surveyed post-op trans folk: "Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret."
>Here is a broad survey conducted in the UK. Unlike the previous links, it's not peer-reviewed, but the large sample size provides some corroboration of the above results. In particular, we have: (Page 15): "Stage of transition had a substantial impact upon life satisfaction within the sample. 70% of the participants stated that they were more satisfied with their lives since transition, compared to 2% who were less satisfied (N=671)" (Page 50): " Most participants who had transitioned felt that their mental health was better after doing so (74%), compared to only 5% who felt it was worse (N=353)." (Page 55): "For participants who had transitioned, this had led to changes in their self-harming. 63% felt that they harmed themselves more before they transitioned, with only 3% harming themselves more after transition (N=206)." (Page 59): "Suicidal ideation and actual attempts reduced after transition, with 63% thinking about or attempting suicide more before they transitioned and only 3% thinking about or attempting suicide more post-transition. 7% found that this increased during transition, which has implications for the support provided to those undergoing these processes (N=316)."
>>79467867
>Okay, but what is wrong with being ill and seeking the most effective treatment?
When you're treating the symptom and not the source.
If someone transitions, undergoing hormone therapy and rounds of surgery, and still can't "pass" or somehow gets "outed" or found out down the line, the uncomfortable feelings of gender dysphoria are going to come right back as strong as ever.
>>79472466
/pol/ follows dogma not philosophy, as such it is not subject to the whims of philosophy and its shitty peripathetic construct.
It basically means that no matter how much you bitch and whine about lgbt faggotry being shitted on, it will never change because it is part of the dogma to shit on lgbt.
>>79472577
it's just a nose ring. same nose.
still, not passable. unpassable trannies are the worst.
>>79466963
We just get fucking tired with transfaggots infringing on our freedom and the total disregard for science it involves.
Take some fucking pimozide and shut the fuck up.
>>79466963
Why are transgender afraid of being labeled that way legally, like on their drivers license?
They'll never be considered what they identify as on the legal system because it's unlawful.
>>79472484
You can't treat the source. The source is multiple physical and structure issues.
>Differences in limbic structure, nucleus, and behavior
>Differences in hypothalamus activation and structure
>Different collosal shape
>Difference in cortical thickness
>Androgen receptor repeat length polymorphism
that's a few. The first two are most important.
>Burke "Hypothalamic response to the chemo-signal androstadienone in gender dysphoric children and adolescents".
> Berglund "Berglund, H. et al. “Male-to-Female Transsexuals Show Sex-Atypical Hypothalamus Activation When Smelling Odorous Steroids".
>Garcia-Falgueras "A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity."
>Kruijver "Male-to-female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus."
>>79472003
>>79472801
>total disregard for science
>says Pimozide meme
Maybe you should read that pimozide article faggot. Here is a link since you apparently care so much for "science" but are actively disregarding it.
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
That isn't even a research paper or study. It's a clinical report with a sample size of 1. The patient had a learning disability and sexual paraphilia. Additionally, the study even says the feelings came back when lowering the dosage.
Wow you have such a high regard for science to try and use a single case study with 1 sample instead of the 20 years of research that shows the benefits to transition and increasingly successful treatment.
>>79466963
I have nothing against people believing they are a different gender and changing their bodies, it doesn't really affect me.
However, I DO have a problem with them forcing their beliefs and ideologies onto the rest of us. You may believe that gender has nothing to do with what type of body you are born in, but you cannot demand that the rest of the world believe that.
If I believe that you are a woman because you were born with a vagina, then I should not be forced to call you "he/him" just because you want it that way.
(Normally I would argue for whichever side is more objectively true. However, the main argument between these two sides is really values based...Whether you think biological sex should determine what gender you are, or if your personality should...)
you know you have a board for this, you mental fuck
>>>/lgbt/
you fucking queer
better yet,
Just stop lying to yourself and give yourself a 12-gauge face lift, please
>>79466963
Because they're fucking gross.
/thread
>>79474062
>calls me a mental fuck
>has pictures of dog dicks on his computer
>>79474114
>I don't like X
>Therefore X is wrong and shouldn't be allowed
Sounds like you need a safe space.
>>79466963
Sage shill threads, Tumblr is trying to infiltrate.
>>79466963
Fetish bullshit gone too far
>>79473063
The CNS is an unsual set of organs, because people are all sorts of crazy - that goes for the normies too.
And this stays consistent with schizos (and other abnormal brain chemistry) who cannot really be cured of their condition. However, the schizo stays normal as long as he's on meds. The transgender stays normal as long as everyone else plays along to accomodate their anxiety issue. The burden lies not on the group (the providers of medicine and the individual to take it) but on others. No amount of surgery or treatment is going to erase the past or forestall dysphoria when the past resurfaces.
Perhaps, is it possible to take a more eosteric approach to this and suggest that gender is ultimately irrelevant? That one's soul and self-visualization can transcend that duality or ambiguity of physical gender?
Expressing yourself as a feminine soul in a man's body or vice versa is probably still going to get you odd looks, but it's going to cause less social discord than trying to say what is male is female and what is female is male, especially with that don't-you-dare-disagree-shitlord attitude that utterly disregards and subjectively (dangerously) invalidates how others percieve you.
>>79474222
>mutilating your body because of your feelings in your head is not gross
Get fukt reddit scum
>>79466963
because its a mental disorder.
it should not be encouraged.
and trannies know it. suicide rate among trannies is the highest in the world up in the 80% range.
they eventually realize they are not functional human beings. mtf cannot bear children and ftm cannot give children. additionally with age their "transformation" is very obvious and they are a weird mix of both female and male traits.
not sane and healthy human wants to get together with that. so they kill themselves out of desperation and loneliness.
>>79474985
>highest in the world up in the 80% range.
LMAO. You just DOUBLED it. Sick accuracy bro. 100% off. It's genuinely impressive to miss so hard.
>>79475081
denial is also part of the problem.
you dont have to feel responsible for the feelings of other people bro.
when someone is mentally ill you call them out not encourage it.
care for your family and friends and question retarded decisions even if they dont directly affect you.
>>79469464
oh fuck /pol/ is the best place to come for gif. rofl chocked on my food
>>79475304
>trys to avoid the fact he just skewed a number by 100%
>>79466963
>something in my head tells me to cut off my fingers because they don't belong
>labeled crazy
>something in my head tells me to cut off my dick and balls because they don't belong
>WOW SO BRAVE, SUCH A HERO, THIS SHOULD BE CELEBRATED
stop making tranny threads , you're just going to get that mentally ill faggot tranny canadian in this thread and he's gonna say how he's trans , and spend the whole thread justifying his illness with studies by (((doctors)))
>>79475479
>implying the majority of transgender people get genital surgery
>>79472289
>>79472466
Umm... You don't get to bring facts.
>>79466963
fuck off
counterfeit women for counterfeit men
>>79473771
please tell me thats not a trans desu
>>79471857
>Some fascist regimes however decided to take the other route.
What fascist regimes? You are inventing history.
Emphase here is the word "regime" your pick of word, not mine. Maybe you can find some modern pussified "fascist" political group that in an attempt to appeal to normies tries to pretend they are totally OK with fruits. But that's not a regime, nor are the significant in the textbook definition of a political ideology as compared to the founding creators of the ideology and governments that actually put the system into practice.
>>79466963
SJW trannies are spoiled brats who throw a tantrum and sic a mob on you if you so much as give them a funny look. At this rate, it doesn't even matter if they are right about the whole gender changing thing. They are just evil cunts.
Non-SJW trannies are alright.
>>79473502
>Additionally, the study even says the feelings came back when lowering the dosage.
You don't understand how psychiatric medicine works, do you?
>Patient has schizophrenia
>increase dosage in antipsychotics
>voices go away
>decrease dosage in antipsychotics
>voices come back
>"see, it proves the antipsychotics totally aren't working!"
/pol/ is completely accepting of transgender expression. Are you living under a rock, Anon?
I dont want to get ready to have sex with someone then release they have a dick.
>>79480235
Kayla is literally love. I just want to cuddle with her and slowly fall asleep together in each others' arms, watching her fall away into a state of deep relaxation and bliss. (︶ω︶)
>>79480523
Idk Anon...
>>79466963
How dare you even discuss it
Trans "people" are abominations and should all die, preferably in a fire.
I bet you like jews too
>>79466963
Because only God can decide gender- the mutilation will only disappoint and it is sad.
>>79472156
Thinks psychology is a science.
>>79471340
Would bang every single version of her after the first red hat from right to left.
>>79466963
what does gender expression mean? I don't care if you're a tranny or a faggot, just don't try to push your gay-ass agenda on others.
