http://www.vox.com/2016/6/27/11713644/whole-womans-health-supreme-court-choice
n a huge victory for the pro-choice movement, the Supreme Court voted 5-3 Monday to strike down two major anti-abortion provisions that were part of an omnibus anti-abortion law Texas passed in 2013.
The court's ruling in Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt also strikes a blow to a strategy by the pro-life movement to limit abortion access incrementally, through state laws.
To provide abortions at any stage of pregnancy, the provisions forced doctors to have "admitting privileges" with a nearby hospital (which are difficult to get for abortion providers specifically), and forced clinics to undergo often expensive renovations to become "ambulatory surgical centers," which haven't been demonstrated to make abortion safer (though abortion is already quite a safe medical procedure.)
While pro-life advocates said these laws made abortion safer for women, their most significant effect was forcing roughly half of the state's abortion clinics to close. The overwhelming consensus from doctors is that the laws had no medical benefit, and actually made abortion less safe because they forced quality clinics to close for no compelling medical reason.
The central constitutional question was: Did the policies put an "undue burden" on women when they are forced to drive hundreds of miles because their nearest clinic has closed due to regulatory hurdles?
The Court found that it did.
"Both the admitting-privileges and the surgical-center requirements place a substantial obstacle in the path of women seeking a previability abortion, constitute an undue burden on abortion access, and thus violate the Constitution," read the decision.
>>78962912
>abortions at any stage of pregnancy
Why don't we just give women q coat hanger? Having them leave their house is an undue burden.
I love living in a time when an explicit right guaranteed by the constitution is denied by liberals but women have a right to murdering babies just because.
Reminder that if you are pro-life, you are pro-nigger, and therefore supporting the destruction of the white race.
Abortion is the only thing even remotely attempting to keep the rampant nigger population under control.
>>78962912
It's a lot like the "grandfather clauses" that conservatives used to try and prevent blacks from voting.
They came up with all these restrictions (even down to BS about parking lot size), but all the other healthcare providers were grandfathered in.
>>78963270
>murdering babies
Emotional and inaccurate.
>>78963270
>I love living in a time when an explicit right guaranteed by the constitution is denied by liberals
Constitutional rights are not absolute.
Do you have the right to yell fire in a crowded theater? Of course, but if the theater is not on fire, your right suddenly become a crime.
Do you have the right own live grenades, tanks, nuclear missiles and other weapons of war?
Your rights end at my nose.
>>78963628
T H I S
H
I
S
>>78963628
Reminder that abortion terminates hundreds of thousands more white babies per year than blacks.
>>78963628
Niggers can't afford abortions dumbass.
Fetuses don't have any legitimate sense of cognition, killing them is no different than swatting an insect. There are bigger issues in this world than the rights of unborn pieces of slime.
>>78962912
All this means is that if they want those rules they have to ensure it's easier to have admitting privileges and surgical-centers.
20 week still stands.
>>78968511
This
>>78968232
Source? Last I checked, blacks and Hispanics benefit massively from abortion programmes in the US.
>>78963628
You're a literal fucking retard, along with your samefag IP. The "blacks use abortions" meme is a fucking lie, and it's doing wonders to keep /pol/ from abandoning this root conservative ideology. Abortion clinics rarely see anyone other than white women and the occasional asian or spic.
I wish the Supreme Court would hurry up and legalize weed. (What's actually important here)
>>78967725
Wrong. You aren't being charged for exercising your right to free speech. You are still free to shout fire if there is none and you will not be prosecuted for that by the gov. You are charged for inciting panic.
legalized murder. stand before the God YOU don't belive in and tell him to his face it's not murder and you support it. All as you stand on the edge of the lake of fire.
>>78968511
murdering idiot. murder of life is murder. all should be charged and executed.
>>78962912
Who needs children when you can import sandniggers?
>>78968511
no cognition? is that why the baby tries to pull away as the murderer chops them into pieces. have you never heard the term ;" she is with child"? God didn't say with slime. the evil within your heart will haunt you for eternity.
>>78965769
>pretending that they aren't babies because he can't accept reality by admitting what's actually happening
Why don't you just admit you believe people have the right to kill their own babies for convenience reasons?
>>78970835
>>78971046
>>78971333
>guys listen to the sky wizard
>>78971462
>you must be religious to be against taking innocent human life
>>78969958
>In 2012, there were more black babies killed by abortion (31,328) in New York City than were born there (24,758), and the black children killed comprised 42.4% of the total number of abortions in the Big Apple, according to a report by the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.
Google black abortion rate, it's just page after page of stuff like this you mong
>>78970404
>Wrong. You aren't being charged for exercising your right to free speech.
I didn't say you would be charged with a free speech crime. I said that your right to free speech would result in a crime, like imminent lawless action.
You might be the most ferocious poodle-fucker wherever the hell it is you come from, but here you;re nothing.
>>78965769
you have lost your will to defend life. abortion is murder. your so called rights end when you stand before God and declare your right to murder.
>>78971561
>implying Foetus is human life and has the same rights
>>78962912
How the fuck do these cunts even make these assumptions, the Constitution doesn't mention killing your baby, and I doubt the founding fathers considered baby murder part of Americas founding principals?
>>78971792
It very much is a human life and the only way to stop it from continuing to develop is violent force.
There is scientific basis for fertilization being the defining point when human life begins. You can't make a consistent argument for any point before or after fertilization takes place.
[x] weeks is all completely arbitrary, just as any definition like when the baby draws its first breath, or when the baby exits the womb or when the umbilical cord is severed, etc
it's all arbitrary
>>78962912
the constitution gives no "right" to murder. any judge or doctor involved is guilty of conspiracy to commit and murder itself. have you never held a precious baby? how in the fuck could you kill a baby? demons have given you a lie. repent from this evil and ask God to forgive even the thought of such a cowardly action. give the baby to me and I will love him and help him grow to live life! say you will adhere to my post.
Prepare to be AMAZED by the POWER of science.
The fundamental question you silly people are attempting to debate is whether or not a fetus within a female human's womb is in fact, alive. Let us first examine the parameters:
this is an closed-ended "if" statement that defines a test state "alive" to the subject "human embryos". Let us examine the evidence.
For a creature to be classed as "alive" there are eight parameters it must meet simultaneously. This is biological law and is unnegotiable. Thusly, if any of the 8 following biological qualifications are UNMET, then the specimen shall rightfully be declared as being UNABLE to be described as "alive".
1) growth (yes)
2) self-directed movement (yes)
3) consumption (yes...in a way)
4) capacity to reproduce post-adolescence (yes)
5) nervous response to external stimulus (yes)
6) excretion (yes...in a way)
7) respiration (yes...in a way)
8) self-sustained homeostatis (no)
So there you have it. Because a fetus is hitherto incapable of surviving outside the womb prior to approximately the 7th month of incubation UNAIDED BY SCIENTIFIC APPARATUSES, it is justly declarable as biologically UNALIVE. At that point during the final trimester when the baby takes over its own hypothalamatic and homeostatic functions, it can be considered alive. That's. It.
>>78968232
>What is per capita
>>78962912
this alone is a reason to gun you "choice: bastards down. it is treason against human life. how can you even think of such evil. a strong spirit has latched on to your soul and uses you to kill babies. does that seem normal to you? it's not. it is very abnormal my friend. just stop promoting this atrocity. Hillary and the Supreme Court will be judged on this evil. evil. pure simple evil.
>>78972359
>self-sustained homeostatis (no)
>UNAIDED BY SCIENTIFIC APPARATUSES
Is this thing alive? Can we just decriminalize the murder of it?
>>78971708
>you have lost your will to defend life.
I defend life, but like most people, I also have the good sense to know when it begins and when it ends.
> abortion is murder.
Abortion is not murder. Murder is illegal Abortion is not illegal.
Rights-grabbers just make up ridiculous claims like it's "murder" because they can't come up with a cogent, rational argument.
>your so called rights end when you stand before God and declare your right to murder.
Your manufactured god is imaginary. It was deliberately fabricated to fool the weak-minded like you.
Even so, if you had read the words of your God, you would know that even he does not think abortion is murder. Show me in the Bible where he says this.
I will show you that God never says abortion is a sin. I will prove conclusively that God always always always equates life with breath. You will not believe it because you hate God or whatever you slimy infidel.
>>78972359
>prepare to be amazed by the power of science
>babies can't survive outside the womb, therefore we should feel no moral qualm while killing them
Murderous scum
>>78972359
>For a creature to be classed as "alive" there are eight parameters it must meet simultaneously. This is biological law and is unnegotiable.
RETARD ALERT!! No real scientist ever says stupid shit like "unnegotiable".
>>78972359
So because we've defined life in this way, it's okay to remove babby
Doesn't that mean your definition is worng
>>78968511
So you could use a gun to instantly kill someone who's sleeping, right? They wouldn't actively sense that they're being murdered so it wouldn't matter.
>Abortion is good because it stops le dinduz!!
You've got to be fucking joking me, right?
>>78973056
Abortion is the legalized killing of your own child as a mean to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions.
>>78972152
>How the fuck do these cunts even make these assumptions, the Constitution doesn't mention killing your baby, and I doubt the founding fathers considered baby murder part of Americas founding principals?
They didn't. They were wise enough to hang faggots and keep women in their place, they certainly wouldn't have supported killing babies.
>>78973137
>babies can't survive outside the womb, ... killing them
If I cut off my arm, the living tissue dies
If I abort a fetus, the living tissue dies
It is the same
>>78973056
>your manufactured God is imaginary
A little redundant there Richard
>>78972359
First of all your attempt to use subjective definitions is moot to begin with.
Secondly, does that mean that old folks on artificial life support aren't really alive because they aren't "self-sustained"?
Hell, how do you even define "self-sustained" in the first place? Everyone dies eventually.
It's amazing what mental gymnastics burgers go through on issues that the rest of the developed world has sorted out decades ago.
>>78973531
>If I cut off my arm
so it's OK if I cut off your arm?
It's not alive after all. It's all the same really.
>>78973447
>Abortion is the legalized killing of your own child as a mean to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions.
It's not killing because the fetus is not alive until it is born.
It is not a child yet. Calling it a child is an emotional argument like calling a fetus and unborn senior citizen". See how ridiculous it sounds? Maybe you can't because your rational mind is broken.
>>78972743
>Hillary and the Supreme Court will be judged on this evil. evil. pure simple evil.
No they won't, cletus, juan or tyrone. It will be legal the rest of our lives.
>>78971708
Most of us here don't care what a Jewish folk deity is written to think about a practice that those swarthy sandniggers didn't even perform 2,000+ years ago.
>>78973137
Europe should probably restrict abortion to some degree to help save whites, but in the US and other mongrel nations it honestly is a good thing. In places like Africa and South America where people shit out way to many babies it should be the norm.
>>78973531
If I shoot my siamese twin with a revolver, the living tissue dies.
It is the same.
>>78973531
>living tissue dies
Then you should have no qualms having your head removed?
Obviously, the distinction must be made between human life and tissue aka just a clump of cells meme.
>>78973882
>It is not a child yet
Says who?
>the fetus is not alive until it is born
Says who?
>>78973764
>rest of the developed world
Nice pride you vainglorious bastard.
>>78973882
>not a child
But it is a baby
>>78973886
>It's OK to kill babies if they aren't white
That's terrible anon, just get rid of leftist policies and blacks wouldn't be such a problem.
No murder?
Requesting the webm where the fetus fights the clap with his leg trying to escape.
>>78962912
>mfw there are still people who claim that the supreme court is not a 9 person unelected legislature with no checks on it's power
Written constitutions are such a fucking meme, they don't work yet we refuse to change
>>78972359
>capacity to reproduce post-adolescence
>>78971586
Yeah. page after page of semetic propaganda.
Great decision. If you want to make abortion illegal then challenge it directly and legally rather than this sneaky shit to add pointless regulations to it.
>>78974417
>written constitutions are a meme
No, your executive, legislative and judicial branches are a meme, if you had people who studied the constitution understood how it worked and are morally upstanding citizens it wouldn't be a problem.
>>78963628
>it takes away more blacks than whites!
http://kff.org/womens-health-policy/state-indicator/abortions-by-race/
Pro-choice cucks btfo
>>78973924
>If I shoot my siamese twin with a revolver, the living tissue dies.
That's where you really fucked up. In Thailand guns laws are very restrictive. If you were under the age of 20 when you pulled the trigger or the gun was not registered, they you're going to jail for a long time.
Now I get it. Being trapped looking at some ugly bastard who looks just like you must be cruel and unusual punishment. Of course you needed to wipe that smug smile off his retarded face, but the fact is that he might already be born, too.
>>78971677
Speech and action is seperate you fucking retard
Abortion is supposedly grounded in the privacy grouping of the constitution, and has fuck all to do with your stupid comments
>>78974417
>written constitutions are a meme
No, your executive, legislative and judicial branches are a meme, if you had people who studied the constitution understood how it worked and are morally upstanding citizens it wouldn't be a problem.
>>78974435
>mfw someone would abort Holly Hunter
>>78974743
Agreed. A lot of women are single issue voters over abortion and worrying republicans will overturn Roe v. Wade, the underlying foundation for the legality of abortions.
Establishing bullshit regulations on top of abortion that don't actually enhance the safety of the procedure for women in a way that is contrary to the original Roe v. Wade supreme court ruling is cowardly and stupid, challenge it directly.
>>78974381
That image isn't even how normal abortions work. It's right-wing propaganda meant to scare people who don't understand how abortions are performed
So is everyone here aware that the Supreme Court is fucking decimating conservative ideals right now? Or are we too busy posting about the leaf on Canada's flag?
Our country is straight up fucked bros. I don't know how they can get away with pushing verdicts through in the wake of Scalias death. It seems so fucking shady.
They also pushed through a verdict today that sets prescience that if you have a misdemeanor domestic abuse charge on your record, you can never own a fucking gun.
>>78962912
KILL NIGGER BABIES NOW
>>78974285
>But it is a baby
Like the lady with two small dogs, she calls them her "babies" that means (in your tiny brain) they're human beings too?
This is why we can never have a intelligent conversation with you turd-for-brains.
>>78974958
>a lot of women are single issue voters over abortion
Bull shit, give me a sauce of this, the only people who are pro choice I know, are raging leftists.
>>78975032
>mfw the Supreme Court is decimating conservative ideals
supreme court is based. loving it.
>>78975196
http://www.gallup.com/poll/157886/abortion-threshold-issue-one-six-voters.aspx
In 2012, abortion was a single issue for 17% of the population. It's generally somewhere between 13 and 15% of the population.
>>78974841
>talks about siamese twins
>brings up Thailand
My fucking sides
>>78975234
You seem to be lost friend, Facebook/cnn/huffingtonpost are that way ->
>>78975195
So what is it if it isn't a baby, or a human?
when it comes out, it won't be a senior citizen or a dog.
Instead of being an agressive cuck make some arguments.
>>78974848
>Abortion is supposedly grounded in the privacy grouping of the constitution, and has fuck all to do with your stupid comments
So what is it you think you have to do with a woman's right to decide for herself what to do with her own body? How is it you think you decide you get to violate her constitutional rights and privacy?
>>78975342
Nah dude I'm right where I want to be; inside the mud pit making fun of you slimy self-righteous weasels.
>>78972274
So because conception is black and white it's when human life begins? That's fucking retarded. Why not say ovulation is when life begins and treat every egg like a human? Why not just make the point of birth the definitive crossing over point? You're being arbitrary by picking conception of all possible points of development.
Daily reminder pro-life is code word for Anti-White.
>>78975517
Alright. Have fun man!
>fat obese lesbians delighted they can kill their children legally
Oh well. Less nigger babies on Earth. Grats, OP.
It is a virtue to protect human life. The difference between Conservatism and Reactionary Hooliganism is evident here..the NuRight and other Neo Fascist movements are simply racist and reactionary..they are not in any way related to conservatism.
>>78975195
you have yet to affirm how a fetus is either
a.) not human
or
b.) not alive
or at what point during development the fetus becomes either of those things
>Government isn't going to stop niggers from killing their unborn children & thus further preventing niggers on welfare getting more welfare for muh chillinz
>bad
Probably the best news for conservatives this year.
>>78973764
It's more or less sorted here too, legally speaking. Any regional restriction gets shot down (like the one in the OP) because Abortion was made permanently and country-wide legal under Roe v Wade many decades ago. When a bibleblubber tries passing a regional law it gets challenged then destroyed, although that legally takes time which gives them a window of sorts.
>>78974606
>semetic propaganda.
So the Bible, Quran and Torah?
>>78975710
Conservatives aren't emotional racists like yourself m8 they are actually philosophically minded and ideologically consistent..you are just turned on by violence (either mentally a child or latently homosexual tbhfam )
>>78962912
Honestly, its a two part issue.
On one hand, it kills minorities, and imbecils massively, so its good.
On the other, it lets low-iq women, who after avoiding 19 different birth control methods, avoid facing the fact that they have zero ability to plan forward from being identified more easily.
Difficult choice, on either making potentially awful matches for me more easily identified, or to reduce the number of competitive genotypes.... Though call...
>>78975301
Doesn't even go into specifics based on gender, but it is split between 7% baby killers and 9% pro lifers who are single issue voters, so your point is moot.
>>78962912
>though abortion is already quite a safe medical procedure.
Except for the baby?
>>78975032
Welp, that convinced me
I guess i now #ShillforHill
>>78963166
> abortions at any stage of pregnancy
> on the due date
>>78975543
Because once fertilization takes place, you have the beginning of human life. You and I both know that is the beginning and we both know what the natural result will be if left alone.
>Why not just make the point of birth the definitive crossing over point?
So a 24 week old birth, that's human but 6 months in the womb is not and is free to be killed?
If anything is arbitrary, that is.
>>78975543
>ovulation is when life begins
No, life begins when sperm gets in the ovul. In that moment the cigot/fetus has different DNA from the mother and the father, it's a completely different person. Every scientific agrees with that
>>78975866
If you can't figure it out yourself you're fucking clueless and autistic.
>>78974972
Yeah, you're right. What really happens is they crush the baby's skull and suction it's brains out. Then they scrape the leftovers out with a medical spork.
>>78975032
>I don't know how they can get away with pushing verdicts through in the wake of Scalias death.
The Republican created this situation by not advising and consenting a nominee. How many more will retire or die in the next 8 years Hillary is president?
>>78975543
>Why not say ovulation is when life begins and treat every egg like a human?
Because an egg does not automatically form into a human without some form of error. A fertilized egg does. Likewise, conception is also when it gets its own wholistic genetic code as well.
I don't get why liberals constantly love using the same three or four arguments that have been debunked several times, but treating them like they're true just because they're the most obnoxious and loud about the issue.
>>78962912
It's really annoying that everyone makes abortion a woman's right issue. They're forcing you to argue about it in a specific way.
But I dont even see it about woman's rights. To me its about killing babies. I see abortion as plainly evil and wrong. It's not just "your body" anymore. You have a life growing inside of you and its wrong to kill it.
But whenever you talk about restricting or outlawing abortion you get a million screaming cunts yelling about how we're trying to control their bodies or trample on their individual rights. Well sorry ladies, you drew the short straw, that's just how it is. You shouldnt get to decide on your own to kill any unborn child you want, you're killing someone elses child too. An innocent child.
Abortion is not a woman's rights issue.
>>78976977
>implying moderate mclefty would have sided with conservatives
>>78976019
Granted, the point is that for about 7% of pro-choicers (respectively) vs overall voters, abortion is single issue. A slightly greater percentage of voters (9% overall) are pro-choice.
Men are more likely to be pro-life then women, I'm curious to see how turnout is this year. For the overwhelming majority of people there are other issues.
>>78976027
Liberals generally don't consider conception to be the moment at which life begins, so at that point it is not "life", merely a growth in your belly. I won't debate the arguments of that.
>>78976352
This is a stupid argument IMO, I was born after 33 weeks and I suffer from issues (mostly vision problems) that I would not have had if I was born in a timely fashion. Otherwise, my mother would not have had a choice.
>but what if five weeks earlier and she could have aborted you
I could have been, my mother was warned there was a significant risk to the pregnancy, thankfully she asked for further testing and it was determined we were low risk (identical twin, likely a large factor in being premature)
Then I probably would have been underdeveloped to the point where my lifestyle would not be the same.
The third trimester law sets a limit for the parent to decide whether or not they're sure they can have the child. Once they do, they legally own it, financially, etc. for the next fifteen years. Humanity is never perfect, and I think we have to draw a line *somewhere* even if it's imperfect to allow people to have choice while preventing cases where people express regret later and then subject a fully conscious human to a totally fucked up lifestyle.
>>78977016
then where do miscarriages go?
>>78975597
>you have yet to affirm how a fetus is either
>a.) not human
>or
>b.) not alive
Those stupid strawman points of yours are not the points I made.
There is a difference between living tissue (your arm) and a living being (yourself)
A fetus is living tissue, but not a living being until it is born. If you have severely fucked up cognitive skills, you may need someone in your trailer park to slowly explain the difference to you.
>mfw this thread
>>78975710
Abortions kills millions of european babies every year. Only in my country 100.000 every year, and blacks abortions are less than 1%.
>>78976352
>Because once fertilization takes place, you have the beginning of human life. You and I both know that is the beginning and we both know what the natural result will be if left alone.
What, "Unborn Senior Citizens"?
Yeah, it still sounds like you're an idiot.
>>78977449
Miscarriages are just another form of error, but one that is unintentional as opposed to the intentional error of abortion.
If someone is stabbed to death, does saying "well he could've walked outside and gotten struck by lightning anyway" mean that the stabbing should be vindicated?
>>78977950
>>78977635
Your the one who resorts to insults, are you mentally incapable of handling a discussion you leftist cuck
>>78977635
>but not a living being until it is born.
Wrong. Even a 7 month baby could live if her mother died, you just have to take out the baby from her body. Try again
>>78962912
Abortion is completely unnecessary (Outside of medical emergencies and rape cases) and can easily be avoided if you weren't a slut who is too cheap or irresponsible to have sex with a condom
>>78974815
You just BTFO yourself, blacks are something like 20% of the population but account for 41% of the abortions. Also hispanics are counted as white in those counts. Abortions are great to at least keep America mongrelizing at a slower rate.
>>78977016
>Likewise, conception is also when it gets its own wholistic genetic code as well.
An Astronomer says "discrete".
An Astrologer says "wholistic"
Busted
>I don't get why liberals constantly love using the same three or four arguments that have been debunked several times...
Debunked by astrologers? Yeah, I'm not feeling it.
>because they're the most obnoxious and loud about the issue.
The rights-grabbing women-haters are forcing women to be digitally raped before they can have an abortion. If anyone has crossed the violence line, it is them.
>>78971429
>>78971708
You're both just as delusional as he is. No ones opinion is "correct"
>>78977449
your entire story is an argument against abortion
if you're so against existing you can always kill yourself later and have at least had the choice of life
>>78977635
>There is a difference between living tissue (your arm) and a living being (yourself)
yes, we know
a fetus is a living being, one that is unique from the mother
>>78977276
>To me its about killing babies.
Babies, you mean like that woman's two small dogs? Yeah, shame they had to die. But is that really the same as killing human beings?
>I see abortion as plainly evil
Evil is not a rational term, is it? If you can't explain your hatred in rational terms, then it probably is irrational.
>>78973006
Yes.
>>78967725
Actually, I can own live grenades and tanks if I have the cash.
>>78977890
Abortion is good in the US because it's mostly minorities, and the US is utter shit for raising kids in anyways. Plus if a baby boy is born in 'murrica there's still like a 50% chance the retarded parents will have his dick mutilated and a 75% chance the kid will end up fat
Almost all of /pol/ agrees Europe though might want to re-evaluate abortion due to demographic reasons (low birth rate, muslims don't abort much)
>>78978088
>Your the one who resorts to insults, are you mentally incapable...
...of knowing basic grammar like the difference between "your" and "you're"? Yes, that's me.
>>78973811
Yes. It is You're arm.
>>78978654
>a fetus is a living being,
This is quite an incredible claim, do you have even the slightest shred of evidence?
Of course not.
>>78979057
>I see you've made a spelling mistake.jpeg
Your a meme anon, I think you are just baiting
>>78979057
>being this new
>Killing a fetus is alright guys! It totally isn't alive!
>We should ban all guns because they kill a bunch of niggers in Chicago
All liberals should be lined up and shot
>>78975454
It is a foetus. It is literally nothing but a cancerous growth unless you want it.
>>78977950
>What, "Unborn Senior Citizens"?
That's not even an argument.
The point at which human life begins is well established scientifically.
You can try to use as many arbitrary constraints as you want to avoid calling it human life but it's still human life you're taking away.
Dehumanization is always the first step in justification.
>>78977637
World's stupidest abortion meme.
I'm not surprised the tortured logic doesn't convince others that anti-choice is anti-rights.
>>78979212
It can grow and adapt to its environment.
That's a living thing.
>>78979212
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=human+life+begins+when
>>78979469
mad libtard
>>78979469
Stupid? Seems pretty accurate... and humorous.
>>78979461
>The point at which human life begins is well established scientifically.
Oddly, the most scientifically advanced and educated countries all have legalized abortion while the most illiterate and backwards ones have not.
All hail Somali science
>>78979406
>Only liberals support abortion
I've become pro-choice over the past year. The babies they're aborting would more than likely have grown up to be SJWs.
>>78979461
>The point at which human life begins is well established scientifically.
Yes, we call it the Miracle of birth!
>>78978535
Are you seriously trying to debunk me with the word choice I used?
Also
>digitally raped
Are you seriously comparing the little rod x-ray procedure to rape? That's honestly the most demeaning thing I've heard towards rape victims in a while.
>>78979461
>Dehumanization is always the first step in justification.
>>78979406
>All liberals should be lined up and shot
Yes, I see where this is going....
i'll never get people who make fun of libcucks' sjw protect everyone's feelings bullshit but don't want to abort fetuses because its ~immoral~ and makes them sad :c
>>78979920
>Stupid? Seems pretty accurate... and humorous.
Well of course somebody like you would be fooled by an idiot in a lab coat standing in front of a card table with food on it.
The funny part is that the dumbasses fell for it!
>>78980102
barbarian
>>78980341
omg ur right!!!
i LOVE abortion now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>78980001
>Oddly, the most scientifically advanced and educated countries all have legalized abortion while the most illiterate and backwards ones have not.
Does that somehow automatically make it morally right or mean it's not taking away human life?
>>78980102
>Yes, we call it the Miracle of birth!
sounds like the right panel of >>78977637
aka completely arbitrary
>>78980105
>Are you seriously comparing the little rod x-ray procedure to rape?
If a woman doesn't want the probe in her vagina, but she's forced to by the state to obtain routine medical care, then what do assholes like you call it?
>>78980341
So, what are the scientific requirements for something to be considered a living thing?
protip: unborn humans meet all requirements
The point is that women don't seem to care if it's living as long as it doesn't inconvenience them.
>>78980440
>Does that somehow automatically make it morally right or mean it's not taking away human life?
I'm saying I don't think that muslims, trailer park jethro's or tyrone's should be bringing up science as if they're a force of modern science, this is the same demographic of creationists who think they see Jesus or Allah on a Dorito chip
>>78980339
American cuckservatives are just as whiny on social issues as liberal sjw's. America breeds whiners on social issues.
Abortion is the worst kind of degeneracy.
Pretty soon we're going to start having to take more provocative measures, especially since public opinion is starting to swing in our favor.
Supporting abortion is the most degenerate and unscientific thing a person can support.
>Durr jus a blob of cells
The only reason why a man would support this sickness is because he's evil, or he thinks it'll get him laid.
>>78980864
The apostrophe.
Stop it.
>>78979212
>a fetus isn't living being
>what is an organism
Ish okay. You'll learn in biology 1.
Sentience, on the other hand, is subjective
>>78972152
because thats not how the constitution works
>>78981796
>Sentience, on the other hand, is irrelevant.
ftfy
>>78980864
anyone can make retarded generalizations about groups of people based on the kinds of beliefs they have without actually forming a coherent argument
i.e the average liberal who advocates for the legalization of baby killing because muh body
>>78981326
>Catholic
>pretending to care about life
>>78982079
So you're saying that calling opposition a bunch of names doesn't make a person right?
This is going to rock the DNC... provided it's peer reviewed and experts agree.
>>78980440
>Does that somehow automatically make it morally right or mean it's not taking away human life?
You would first need to prove that a fetus is a living human being and by definition, it isn't.
>[birth is a] completely arbitrary [starting point for life]
Birth is celebrated universally, across thousands of year, millions of cultures and communities. All the law, language, science, and human history agree on this one thing, that life begins at birth.
Your move, Algernon.
>>78980825
>So, what are the scientific requirements for something to be considered a living thing?
A living thing* or a living being?
*Highly pseudo-scientific term
>>78982537
>You would first need to prove that a fetus is a living human being and by definition, it isn't
Woah there. That is quite a claim you've made. Do you have any evidence?
Of course not.
>All the law, language, science, and human history agree on this one thing, that life begins at birth
for [x] years we have thought that [y] is true and even though we have now established that [y] is in fact, not true, [y] must still be true because we've believed it for [x] years
Are you even trying at this point?
>>78981326
>Supporting abortion is the most degenerate and unscientific thing a person can support.
Except all the science disciplines accept human life as beginning when the fetus is viable, i.e. capable of living on its own, i.e. ready to be born.
You have no evidence of "degeneracy" outside your own stunted immoral code.
That's 0 for 2.
The entire problem with this debate is framing it as "muh woman's rights". The fetus has different DNA than you. It is part of you, from you, of you, and yet... separate from you. Thus this issue will forever be confounded.
However, ultimately when a new Golden Age returns I believe that pro-life will win once again. In that society it will seem obvious to the vast majority of people.
>people don't want abortions to be legal because its "babykilling"
its my property. give me one good reason that parents shouldn't be able to kill their child any time before it turns 18. why should the government tell me what i am allowed to do with my own creation when its not even a legal adult.
I'm pro choice on the off chance there is an afterlife and the vile women who would do an abortion get sent to hell
>>78983115
>and even though we have now established that [y] is in fact, not true
Let's see the factual evidence. I will radically change my ideas of human life if you can produce one single shred of evidence that's rational.
All you turds have managed so far is bullshit opinions and nonsense gibberish.
>>78983348
>In that society it will seem obvious to the vast majority of people.
I've always thought abortion is going to be one of those things that future generations will read about and think we were absolute barbarians for doing.
>>78983230
>all the science disciplines accept human life as beginning when the fetus is viable i.e capable of living on its own i.e ready to be born
Sauce. You talk about evidence, yet don't provide any of your own
>>78983348
>However, ultimately when a new Golden Age returns I believe that pro-life will win once again.
This is not about winning or losing. This about people who have critical thinking skills fighting for the rights of women versus right-grabbing retards counting to potato.
>>78983230
Does science still consider homosexuality a mental illness? I guess they'll also cave on transsexualism soon as well to be politically correct and not offend.
>>78962912
It's a good thing the Supreme Court is reaffirming repeatedly the abortion clause in the US constitution.
Picture related.
>>78983657
>Let's see the factual evidence
That fetus's are human beings? What part makes you believe they're not human in the womb but suddenly human outside of it?
What is rational about a belief like that?
>Biblescooters wouldn't want this aborted
>>78963690
>conservatives used to try and prevent blacks from voting
The people who tried to prevent blacks from voting were Democrats. There was nothing conservative about it.
>>78983906
>Sauce. You talk about evidence, yet don't provide any of your own.
Birth has always been the starting point. The proof? Birthdays, Birth certificates. Given names. Age. All related to birth, not conception.
You're the one moving the goalposts with your crazy claims.
Where's your proof? The word "fertilizer"?
>>78962912
Good. If a woman is capable of murdering her unborn child, she shouldn't be trusted to raise them for 18 years.
I personally don't like it, but the people that take advantage of it are undesirable and I cannot ethically abide preventing them from cucking their bloodline out of existence
>>78962912
are the supreme court think of the US as an aristocratic oligarchy where they have absolute power?
>>78984121
Google "undue burden standard"
The supreme court has decided many times that you have the right to not be overburdened by the state, rights not defined in the constitution are more of a 9th amendment thing than anything else
>>78984410
Whatever. The point is that it's none of your business what someone else wants do with their 'bloodline". Worry about your own bloodline instead.
>>78984396
https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/wdhbb.html
>>78984572
First read the 10th Amendment.
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Now, tell me where States are prohibited from limiting or outlawing abortion in the US Constitution.
> 1 mention of rape pregnancies
> No mention of incest pregnancies
> No mention of serious congenital malformations
I guess you just gotta do you, /pol/
Yeah fuck babies, am I right ladies?
Let's chop their heads off so we can go right out and suck ALL THE COCKS THERE ARE!!! LOL
>>78984626
I agree with you, and encourage you to get as many abortions as possible. But not because I think you are a strong, empowered woman, but rather because you are scum who wouldn't be allowed to breed in the first place in a just world.
>>78977637
Source on the painting?
>>78983941
Wouldn't people with critical thinking skills avoid unwanted pregnancy ?
>>78984950
Do you expect anyone else to care about what you think about them?
>>78984107
>Does science still consider homosexuality a mental illness?
No biologist or zoologist would pronounce such a judgement about nature being good or bad, that would be unscientific.
Science make observations about the natural world. Most mammal species have observable homosexual traits and members in nature.
This demonstrates once again how little you know about science.
>>78985039
Because every rapist is kind enough to put a condom on, and every pregnancy is viable
>>78985078
You've replied to me twice now.
>>78985039
>Wouldn't people with critical thinking skills avoid unwanted pregnancy ?
Sometimes guys just want to 'hit that' without thinking about the consequences
>>78985108
Animal models of homosexuality are almost always non-exclusive. Homosexuality represents a misfiring of the reproductive and pair-bonding instinct, and is not a lifelong, exclusive, intrinsic orientation.
>>78962912
>provide abortions at any stage of pregnancy
ARE
AMERICANS
EVEN
HUMAN
>>78984873
>Now, tell me where States are prohibited from limiting or outlawing abortion in the US Constitution.
Abortion has already been decided in Roe v. Wade to be a Constitutionally-protected privacy issue.
>>78985039
The anti-abortion movement will NEVER focus on programs to improve social justice and economics so that no one will feel compelled to abort because of societal and economic pressures. or promote sex education and informed responsibility so that people know how to avoid unwanted pregnancies.
Those are policies that are actually pro-life. The anti-abortion movement is instead devoted to destroying the freedom of this country to replace it with a misogynistic religious ideology every bit as fanatical as that of al-Qaeda or ISIS.
>>78985108
actually, almost all know instances of homosexuality "in nature" occur in domesticated animals
moreover, the dynamics of homosexuality displayed by animals are significantly different from that of humans and human behavior
>>78984325
>The people who tried to prevent blacks from voting were Democrats. There was nothing conservative about it.
You me the Conservative coalition or I believe it was known colloquially at the time as the "Dixiecrats" or "Boll Wevils" used to describe the conservative southern democrats?
if you dont support abortion you support having more
>niggers
>poor people
>criminals
>single mothers
in the world
>>78985157
Wouldn't a doctor prescribe drugs to deal with pregnancy, disease and infection following a rape ?
What types of pregnancy complications do you consider non-viable ? Down syndrome ?
>>78985567
>that grammar
Is that some kind of cuckservative Facebook meme?
>>78985108
It's not a moral judgement, it's a classification of mental disease.
>This demonstrates once again how little you know about science.
kek.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology#The_Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual
>The social, medical and legal approach to homosexuality ultimately led for its inclusion in the first and second publications of the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). This served to conceptualize homosexuality as a mental disorder and further stigmatize homosexuality in society. However, the evolution in scientific study and empirical data from Kinsey, Evelyn Hooker and others confronted these beliefs, and by the 1970s psychiatrists and psychologists were radically altering their views on homosexuality.
>>78984873
Federally protected constitutional rights were extended to the states some hundred years ago or whatever, this means that the states can't violate the constitution either. The supreme court has said before, way before this case ever happened, that the government has no right to unnecessarily burden people without good justification. For example the states can't make their citizens carry a bag of bricks around 24/7 "just because". Since these policies DID put an undue burden on women and basically fucked everything up instead of helping (the right to regulate "positively" is a state right the courts respect), they were declared unconstitutional.
>>78984396
>Birthdays, Birth certificates. Given names. Age
People give names to their babies very early on, typically before they are even born.
It's not like you can only give a fetus (a human) a name after its birth. Not an argument
Secondly, I'd imagine that Birthdays/certificates and tracking age at birth is a thing since it's hard to know the "day of conception" and what is exactly going on internally on a day to day basis
Women don't know the exact moment the zygote is formed etc, but she knows the exact moment the baby is born, so it's a convenient starting point, but has NOTHING to do when life begins.
>>78985160
Which post did I make what you think worth changing?
>>78985428
The decision in Roe v. Wade followed immediately from the logic in Griswold v. Connecticut.
The Supreme Court blatantly admitted there was no Constitutional basis for their ruling in Griswold v. Connecticut in writing the decision, Associate Justice Douglas writing (for the majority opinion) that his reasoning came from the "penumbras" and "emanations" of other constitutional protections. He literally made up a right because he could find no other way to justify the ends he sought.
By the logic provided in Griswold and Roe, the Supreme Court can declare anything they want a 'right' and say that both federal and state governments have zero power to outlaw or regulate it.
>>78985229
So women have no free will?
>>78985387
Dont make me abort you
>>78985473
I'm amazed people don't know how pregnancy happens, or have children without planning for them.
>improve social justice and economics
wouldn't people feel less compelled to act responsibly then ?
>>78962912
Who cares? Most abortions are done by minorities, aren't they? Do you want minorities to breed? Wait a second...
>1 post by this ID
>A fucking leaf
>>78962912
I support eugenics and abortion in the US Is basically the only eugenic force we have left in this country.
>>78986069
>A characteristic of economic inequality and lack of mobility is large birth rates.
>Anon then actually asks "Would people feel less compelled to act responsibly then?"
>>78971708
>your so called rights end
>so called rights
Time to get your faggot ass out of America, collectivist trash.
>>78985872
Nothing you've stated is justification for claiming abortion is a constitutionally protected right. If there were a clause in the Constitution protecting abortion, I would agree with you! States cannot place undue burdens on exercising constitutional rights, as you said, and as follows from the 14th Amendment. Now, show me where abortion is a constitutionally protected right without saying "because seven people said so," i.e. appeal to authority. If you like, you can even repeat the arguments of others who have declared it so. See if you find their arguments wanting.
>>78971246
Thank you, Mohamed!
>>78986394
I can make a pretty good argument for the termination of an unborn baby being an infringement on its right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
not the other way around tho :^)
>>78971792
Please explain how a human fetus or embryo is not human life?
In what way, biologically speaking, is it dissimilar from a newborn?
>>78986610
>right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
That's not in the Constitution bud.
>>78962912
>women who get abortions are more likely to be minorities and/or potentially shitty parents
>women who are "pro-life" are usually white and want to raise kids
Not seeing a problem here.
>>78985660
Nonviable meaning literally not viable. A pregnancy can continue fine even if something serious happens, like the heart or brain fails to form.
And it's not like there's an ER team that'll appear when you get raped. Women often don't seek help after a rape because even if they do, sometimes the don't get help, or they don't get help fast enough.
>>78986252
Why though ? Why would someone in that situation think having children is a good idea ?
If you became poor and unemployable tomorrow would you start cranking out kids ?
>>78985473
>The anti-abortion movement will NEVER focus on programs to improve social justice and economics
It's just a fallacy to say that they need to donate or spend time doing charity in order to justify a pro-life position. That aside I have never seen a pro-life group that wasn't also incredibly involved in charity and helping women and babies.
>to replace it with a misogynistic religious ideology
All this tells me is you know nothing about why people are pro-life, or why they believe what they believe. You commit another fallacy by assuming you have to be religious in order to be pro-life. There are some religious reasons to be pro-life but there are many more secular reasons and you would know that if you ever actually examined the other side.
I don't mean to kick off a debate I just hate seeing these terrible points being brought up in every abortion thread. You don't need to do charity or help people in order to have a logical position nor do you need to be religious to be pro-life.
So do the people who are against abortion also against the euthanasia of brain-dead people? Just trying to see if they're ideologically consistent.
>>78986738
uhhh
how about the 14th amendment, bud?
>>78975543
Conception is not arbitrary. Objectively, this is when life begins from a genetic, biological stand point..
Exiting the birth canal is, literally, arbitrary. A few inches of flesh is all that would separate the child from being considered either "alive" or "a clump of cells". How can you fail to see this?
>>78962912
I really want to make a video slicing open a pregnant cat or dog and stomping the "non living" kittens to death and see how pro choicers react. Somehow I see myself in prison.
>>78987006
Really ? A woman whose been raped won't get anti virals for HIV infection and anti contraceptives for birth control ?
She'd have to be an idiot to not realize those things exist.
>>78986738
14th Amendment, Section 1, second sentence.
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
Seems life and liberty are explicitly protected in the Constitution. Removal of said rights, as with the removal of any other rights, is bound by due process. "Pursuit of happiness" isn't explicitly protected.
>>78987162
You're either retarded or a psychopath. Either way, don't reproduce.
>society will jump through mental hoops to extenuate the murder of children in order to avoid a woman being inconvenienced by the consequences of a choice she made
In case you for some reason still have doubts about gynocentrism
>>78987241
yeah, I should have said "and property", not pursuit of happiness
>>78987109
yes, conception to natural death. You can refuse extraordinary means to preserve "life", i.e. have a DNR, but they would be against all forms of euthanasia, and capital punishment if they're truly consistent
>>78987138
Why don't you try reading it? You're mixing up the declaration of independence.
>>78987241
You are only awarded citizenship when you are born by the 14th amendment. This doesn't necessarily protect a fetus.
>>78987109
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case
Yes.
>>78987241
Don't children have that same rights?
>>78987106
If you don't do this charity or social work, then there is no pro-life at all.
The anti-abortion movement is driven Christian Fundamentalism, pushing terrorist movements like Operation Rescue and compelling the Scott Roeders and Eric Robert Rudolphs to kill and destroy in the name of God. You throw up allegedly secular reasons as your "beard".
>>78987193
That's assuming she's thinking straight immediately after a traumatic experience and/or not drugged Anon.
Also remember American healthcare is fucking ridiculously expensive. You would probably have to go to the emergency room for this shit, and just seeing a doctor at the ER is thousands of dollars.
>>78987421
The second sentence does not say "... nor shall any State deprive any citizen of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..." It says "any person".
Fetuses are humans and all humans are people. Similarly, states cannot deprive foreign nationals of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.
>>78987421
I did. It doesn't matter because life is still protected, which it should be.
>nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
the point being is abortion is unconstitutional if you go by science's definition for when human life begins
>>78985316
>Animal models of homosexuality are almost always non-exclusive.
Whatever makes you feel special, snowflake.
>>78987694
Person can mean anything and sometimes even includes corporations. It's not a legally defined term.
>Similarly, states cannot deprive foreign nationals of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.
We do though. Ex: how we treat terrorists.
>>78987719
It says "person" not "biological human."
>>78985763
>American Psychiatric Association
Psychiatry is not a natural science.
>>78987719
>if you go by science's definition for when human life begins
Careful with that, there is some disagreement in the medical community as to when life begins. Some say at conception. Same say at implantation.
>>78987719
>It doesn't matter because life is still protected, which it should be.
Protected with due process of the law. This provides for executions just like abortions.
Women should be fined $1000 for every child they have without a father. Abortions should be free. This combination would mean far less dindus and petty criminals roaming our streets.
>>78987984
>It says "person" not "biological human."'
so I guess it's constitutional to kill babies and children in general? right? don't be retarded
>>78988340
execution for being born
real sweet justice bro
>>78988340
That means you would have to go on trial to have an abortion.
>>78985924
>People give names to their babies very early on, typically before they are even born. It's not like you can only give a fetus (a human) a name after its birth.
Yet they don't put those names on official paper until when? Birth? Thank you. Next!
> it's hard to know the "day of conception"
It's soooo important to you drama queens yet you don't have a clue when it is. Typical SJWs.
>Women don't know the exact moment the zygote is formed etc, but she knows the exact moment the baby is born, so it's a convenient starting point
Yes , and a very common one. Across thousand so years, billions of people, millions of cultures, thousands of religions and all languages, it's always the same.
>but has NOTHING to do when life begins.
Well, it certainly looks like you have all your work ahead of you to cobble together enough fallacies to pseudo-prove it.
>>78987984
Terrorists are enemy combatants. This is like claiming a cop killing a mass shooter is denying them due process.
Also, corporations have the same rights as individuals so far as they can apply to groups of people. Government cannot kill everyone working for a corporation without due process. Government cannot interfere in a corporation's business activities without due process (lawsuits). Government cannot seize a corporation's property without due process (lawsuit, imminent domain, or others).
Your analogies do not support your position.
>>78988550
unborn*
>>78985971
>He literally made up a right because he could find no other way to justify the ends he sought.
My Constitution says the Supreme Court interprets Law of the Land. What does your say?
Oh yeah let´s get that baby killing going!
>>78988609
*eminent domain
>>78988550
>execution for being born
It seems you are intentionally (and foolishly) conflating execution with abortion which is both false and irrelevant to the point.
>>78988561
>That means you would have to go on trial to have an abortion.
The trials have already been held. See Roe v. Wade, Casey v. Planned Parenthood, or the recent Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt for due process of the law in protecting the right to life of fetuses.
>>78988677
So if the Supreme Court claimed tomorrow you have no right to life or due process, they would be correct no matter what the document actually says?
How come the conservatives always have to lie? We all know they were just trying to sneaky sneaky ban abortions. Their arguments are so shitty they can't even just say what they mean. What a pack of cowardly little cunts.
>>78963628
Reminder that if you're okay with a procedure that you believe kills children because it effects black people populations, then you are an edge teenager.
>>78988550
>so I guess it's constitutional to kill babies and children in general? right? don't be retarded
No, the constitution merely restricts the government from depriving people of life and liberty without due process. This doesn't mean you couldn't pass a law for legal abortion among private citizens (or legal killing for that matter).
>>78988609
What? We capture foreign terrorists and then deny them civilian trials and basic rights all the time. Guantanamo Bay.
A mother killing a fetus is not the same as a government depriving you of life or liberty without due process. Get your analogies together mate.
>>78988677
And they aren't interpreting the law, they are changing the law. It's an overreach of power.
>>78988853
They were trying to limit abortions and were quite straightforward about it. The Supreme Court already struck down bans, so they have to seek other avenues to protect human life.
>>78986394
>Nothing you've stated is justification for claiming abortion is a constitutionally protected right.
The woman's natural right now has Constitutional protection established by the Supreme Court.
>Now, show me where abortion is a constitutionally protected right without saying "because seven people said so," i.e. appeal to authority.
This is your Democratic Republic's Rule of Law. We abide by the Constitution (well, some of us do) and we respect the rulings.
If you hate the Constitution and you hate our freedoms, then go be a nigger somewhere else.
>>78986610
>I can make a pretty good argument for the termination of an unborn senior citizen...
Are you seriously that retarded?
>>78988772
it is deprivation of life for being unborn and that's the part that matters
that would be like making it a capital crime for being white, with the punishment being death
it's a crime for existing and it's unconstitutional
>>78989120
They lied and said it was formthe safety of the patients. In the dissent the justices said their argument was plausible. Read.
>>78972359
If you were in the void of space and kept alive by a space suit would you not be un alive by your logic. So by your logic I could kill you.
>>78989271
quite literally not an argument
>>78989364
>it is deprivation of life for being unborn and that's the part that matters
Which the state is authorized to do under the Constitution so long as due process is observed. Are you trying to argue that something is unconstitutional even though it is provided for in the Constitution?
>it's a crime for existing
>crime
That word
