Capitalists, how do you justify this graph?
>>78844812
>wealth can't be generated
F-, see me after class.
>>78844812
>people move between different wealth brackets throughout their lifetime.
What does it matter if the poor make less if there are less people that are poor?
either way its a useless statistic.
wealth isn't zero-sum.
>>78844812
Work harder
>>78844812
Why do socialists get so butthurt about wealth inequality? Let's say the bottom 90% had perfectly fine living standards. At that point, would it matter if Bob can afford 2 Lamborghinis and 5 houses, while Tom can only afford a used car? No, it wouldn't fucking matter. The real reason why leftists cry about wealth inequality is because of a Marxist penis-envy meme, they don't actually care about the living standards of the poor.
>>78845008
>>wealth can't be generated
The wealth being generated isn't going to the bottom 90%.
The top 9.9% own 56% of the wealth, it's pretty easy to be in the top 9.9%, don't be a loser and work harder.
People are being less conservativr
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/19/what-percent-are-you/
find out your percent
>>78845484
Quit responding to low hanging fruit. Respond to my post. You know I'm right. It's not about wealth inequality, it's about living standards. Wealth inequality is just emotional penis-envy.
It wasn't produced by capitalism, it was produced by creeping socialist policies.
>>78845183
Nice meme
>>78844812
>Wealth (((Inequality)))
this is bait and only mental midgets think (((inequality))) is inherently bad
Man, people have it so fucking wired into their minds that if someone else is winning, they must be losing. It's not a zero sum game! This is the best time to be alive and living conditions haven't sunk at all, they've only risen!
boomer here,if you just tried and worked harder you could be just as rich as any of these billionaires.
I got where I am today by working my butt off to have what I have now and all you kids just sit on your asses and dont even try to get a job. there's tons of jobs out there and the unemployment rate is only 5% in the US.
remember kids, hard work always pays off
>>78845066
>>What does it matter if the poor make less if there are less people that are poor?
there aren't less people that are poor
>>78844812
Why would I need to "justify this graph"? What's wrong with the information contained within it?
>>78846431
define poor
>>78846567
what happens if the trend continues? do you expect it to continue, or even out? what are the implications of the former?
Capitalism isn't globalism, dipshit
>>78846567
globalism destroys the economy
>>78846431
Stop being a fag and just tell us the amount of money you want from the state
why does every chart that shows something going to shit always start at 1960? every time. birth rates started to drop? 1960. wealth inequality rise? 1960. home ownership, income stagnation? 1960.
>>78844812
Clinton started this shit. And it touches whole world.
>>78845484
>tfw you're in top 1%
sheeeeeeit, so I shouldn't provide medical care to any millennials then right?
>>78845482
>penis envy and Marxism
That's a strawman and everyone knows it.
More importantly, it's a myth that living standards are just hunky-dory. People in some areas are still living without adequate food or running water or electricity. I've seen towns where people can't afford decent rooves so they put tin sheets over their houses and secure them with heavy tires.
Don't bother. This forum is full of poorfag goodest of goyim who actually in bootstrap bullshit sold to them by Republicans. Not only do they not have a problem with a handful of people controlling all of the wealth in the country they think its a actually a good thing.
>>78844812
Top 1% contributes more then the worthless 99%.
>>78846611
they are indebted and can't afford to buy goods or services
this leads to a collapse in demand and economic stagnation, which is what we are currently going through.
The solution is to end outsourcing, mass immigration, cheap credit and other globalist projects while investing money in productive enterprise again.
>>78846611
living under 125% of the FPL.
>>78844812
>complain about wealth inequality
>vote for the globalist neoliberal party
Collusion between big business and big government to capture and suppress the free market.
Should add a line for government size/power/spending.
>>78846231
>they've only risen
Tell that to the white middle aged people in small towns dying younger at record rates.
>>78846135
Yes goy, defend your jewish masters.
They need and deserve every single shekel, it doesn't matter that hard working men need 3 jobs to feed their children.
why should billionaires give up their second yacht just so the peasants can afford a slightly bigger tv
>>78844812
>look at right where 1939 is
We need another world war to happen is all I got out of it.
>>78844812
People who are more worried about other peoples' wealth than their own will always be broke as fuck.
OP - $30 in checking. $0 in savings
>>78847074
Oy vey I like the cut of this goy's jib
>>78845613
Nice meme.
>don't be a loser
High quality thought process there.
>>78845888
Just take the blue pill. Poverty in America is an ever growing problem.
The system is rigged by the 1% and you know it deep down.
>>78846925
>calls 99% of America worthless
capitalist pig pls go
>>78846982
wait, are you saying that for our economy to function, people need money to spend on things?
>>78847074
>a communist calling me a servant of the Jews
your ideology was invented by Jews
>>78844812
The fed
>>78847119
people should be able to afford a high standard of living
otherwise you turn into a shitty 3rd world region like Puerto Rico
>>78847074
>Oy vey how dare the goyim question my billions! I earned every single dollar! It's literally anudda shoah!
>Yes goyim yes go back to working 16 hours a day! Healthcare and university paid for by my taxes? Not a chance, how will I buy a fourth yacht?
>>78847269
There is a difference between stopping jewish greed and communism.
Not that you'd know, bootlicker
>>78847269
>communist
>natsoc
terrible b8
>>78847259
obviously
>>78847259
sauce
>>78844812
How do socialists justify this graph?
wheres the inequality in this one?
>>78847525
>>obviously
i'm sorry anon but that's just absurd. i can't see any way that our economy will falter if there is no incentive to produce things for people to buy because no one has any money to spend on anything but servicing their debt.
>>78845484
>thomas piketty
top fucking kek.
>>78847745
>>How do socialists justify this graph?
what graph? all i see are big whole scary numbers with lots of zeros without any source or breakdown as to where any of that money is coming from or towards what purpose it's being used.
you might as well literally be making shit up.
>>78847484
Germany knows what he is talking about
opposing globalism is not "communism" it is "nationalism"
>>78847760
kek
that's right goy there's nothing wrong with spending your entire paycheck on housing
also be sure to let in millions more immigrants to raise housing prices. Remember, if you don't you're a racist.
Didn't expect /pol/ to be this bluepilled about wealth inequality.
I thought you were AGAINST Jews rigging the system and living off inexcusably fat profit margins?
The problem isn't capitalism, it's cronyism. Real capitalism is about competition, opportunism and meritocracy. This is just the birth of an international financial aristocracy.
>>78848200
/pol/ is contrarian.
>>78846904
Yes, poor people do exist. Yes, it can be a problem. But is the solution really to protest income inequality?
Wouldn't it be possible to fix the shitty living conditions some people have, without needing to fuck with everyone else to do it?
>>78847235
Mature adults who have real jobs put away their childish fantasies of equality a long time ago. They aren't triggered by the fact that people have more wealth than them. They understand that some people produce more value than others. They realize that people are the authors of their own misfortune, and that the decisions that they made were entirely their own.
Admit it, you're driven by envy. You've failed at life and now rather than admit it's your fault, you seek to blame the boogieman "one percent", even though the vast majority of these people earned their wealth legitimately.
Wealth inequality is one of the biggest bullshit scams of this century. It literally means nothing that someone has more money than you unless you're a jealous faggot who doesn't like the idea of someone having more than you.
I swear, if it was up to these faggots, everyone would be living the same mediocre existence so their fucking feelings wouldn't get hurt.
>>78846904
Those are also the areas that niggers run. I used to live around that shit. It's not that niggers can't get a job. It's that as soon as they get one and realize they have to do WORK that doesn't include running drugs, rape, and killing the quit the next day. Fuck you Liberals, and when I'm making 6 figures. I'll be sure to not hire any niggers or libtards out of spite
>>78848449
this is a bad post and you should feel bad for making it.
>>78845613
Like the poor sods who work 50 hours a week (including unpaid overtime) for barely substantial wage aren't working hard enough?
And don't you dare let those goys complain, oy vey. If you dare to say something even vaguely union-ish, you'll be kicked out and replaced by some sucker (probably an immigrant) who works just as hard but with less complaining.
There aren't enough jobs on the market, you see, but every worker is still being overworked. In the past 40 years real wages failed to increase despite skyrocketing per-worker productivity. I wonder if there's a connection between all these factors...
>>78848200
>Real capitalism
Not this fucking shit again. It's just as bad as listening to socialists with their not true socialism crap.
Anarchy-socialism is obviously the way to go.
>>78848489
>Wealth inequality is one of the biggest bullshit scams of this century. It literally means nothing
here is another bad post. you should also feel bad.
>>78848200
Because faggots would still be whining about "wealth" inequality even if lived in a world without corrupt jewish bankers because removing them wouldn't change the reality that someone will make a success of themselves and have more wealth than someone else.
"wealth inequality" stems from envy, some faggot sees someone driving down the street in a porsche and thinks it isn't fair that that guy has a porsche and he doesn't
It's childish as fuck, like the kid who whines that he got a chocolate chip cookie with 8 chips while someone else got a cookie with 10 chips
I swear, I'm the only person in this world who looks at a successful person and thinks "I should work to become as successful as them" instead" Why does he have that success and I don't?"
>>78848523
>>78848449
You aren't thinking straight
when people have no income or savings the economy crashes and everyone is reduced to poverty
this is the globalist plan
>>78848903
>>78848829
>>>/reddit/
>>78844812
-Get rid of labor unions
-Destroy the Federal Reserve
-Remove insurance
-Stop bailouts
-Remove minimum wage
-Incentivize companies to keep manufacturing jobs here
Boom better economy.
>>78848489
Someone having more money than you isn't the power.
It's more and more that the money is being used to leverage increasing political influence and power, allowing them to become richer will undermining capitalism and equal opportunity.
I don't care that hillary clinton gets 250k for a 10min speech at goldman sachs. What I do care about is that is just a charade for the banksters to get to meet her and assurance that she will pass favourable laws for them.
>>78849015
>success of themselves
You have no idea what you're talking about
wall street/globalist success is based on destroying the economy not helping it
>>78849116
>Yes goyim yes...union? What do you need that for? It's your RIGHT to work for me for 16 hours just to be paid enough to barely survive
kys please
>>78849116
>lower wages are good
when will this meme end?
why do you think mass immigration and outsourcing is so popular to globalists? It means cheap, low standard of living labor.
>>78844812
Side effect of capitalism. You have a better system?
>>78846982
>this leads to a collapse in demand and economic stagnation
This is delusion that middle class is needed for economy to function, needed to create consumption. It is akin to medieval times economic """theories""" that aristocrat class was needed fro same, to create consumption, without aristocrat those stupid peasnsat would not find market to sell their goods this why they need aristocrat who literally takes way that surplus and saves economy. Now middle class wants to take this entailed position. of course it bullshit and world economy will do fine without them. Just aristocrats and serfs. With structure of goods production shifting into what super rich buy (industry goods and luxury goods).
>>78849116
>-Get rid of labor unions
>-Remove minimum wage
Jesus Christ how much corporate dick have you been sucking?
>>78848903
Counter my argument or eat a dick cuck.
>>78849015
I don't give a fuck about "wealth inequality", I care about how workers are being treated like shit and real wages have been failing to rise and have even fallen, all the while the fat kikes at the top seem to be doubling their wealth every decade without doing ANYTHING besides lobbying governments for more measures against small business or competition.
>>78848829
Nah, it's true. Every word of it. I live in a Progressive bubble. I'm around these people all the time, and I have yet to meet a single one of them who has been even half successful in life. They're all miserable failures.
You think the average working man cares about this class-baiting shit? Nah. All he wants is a steady job and to be able to go home to his wife and kids every night. The only people pushing this wealth inequality meme are teenagers, the unemployed, and people with sociology degrees.
>>78847119
This is the point. They don't. If peasants want this to happen they literally need to take this yacht by force.
>>78849372
capitalism without destroying the power of the unions
>>78849116
How can you reconcile stopping bailouts on the one hand, and incentivizing (see handouts and corporate welfare) for companies to keep manufacturing jobs here on the other.
I don't disagree with what you said, but it shows the freest of markets aren't always what is best.
>>78845484
>Piketty
WEW LAD.
If we switched to the emotional arguement of so-called "inequality", would you use huffpo and politifact for sources too?
>>78849057
Invest in Bitcoin and crypto currency then
The real question is what level of wealth inequality is healthy.
Clearly, 0 inequality means nobody is growing. Innovation and opportunity must be dead. Most likely it's a 3rd world slum.
Maybe there's such a thing as too much inequality but I'm not sure.
>>78844812
This.
Now, be a good mongoloid and kill yourself.
>>78849372
Capitalism but with added Anarcho
I 'unno, I'd like to think that if the bottom 90%'s ownership of wealth peaked during Ronald Reagan's time with his staunch capitalist and free market platform, I don't think it's because of capitalists that such a situation occured.
>>78849369
>you should live in a cage like a China man, goy
err I mean Gwielo
>>78849380
>This is delusion that middle class is needed for economy to function, needed to create consumption. It is akin to medieval times economic """theories""" that aristocrat class was needed fro same, to create consumption,
It's literally the exact opposite
The middle class is needed to stimulate demand and production because they are the actual consumers
The aristocracy/elite isn't needed it all because their "consumption" is just tiny markets for luxury goods.
>>78849584
Yeah that's really "productive"
>>78849153
You quite clearly are a tremendously retarded faggot and don't even understand the reasons behind why companies go public in the first place.
Stocks and public shares exist as a concept to give companies precious capital which they then use to either expand their production or to invest in new marketable concepts or to use as startup revenue to get their ideas of the ground.
Blame shitty companies for their failing stock prices, not the investors who want to back out of a loser when they see one. They're not in this shit for charity after all.
>>78844812
The part of the graph from 1952 to 1992 is probably the most capitalistic the US has been in its history. The last 20 odd years have arguably been the least capitalistic.
Try again.
Why do you have a map of Austria on a graph?
>>78849556
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy aka Rhine-Capitalism
>>78849556
Unions destroyed themselves.
>>78848874
work hard is a meme
What he really meant to say is creat value. I can work my ass off making a sandwich. It doesn't make the sandwich worth anything.
>>78849579
Instead of ad hominem attacks against the source (who is near the top of all economics citation indexes) why don't you tell us why the graph is incorect
>>78849619
There's also looking at wage inequality. I agree doctors should be paid more than clerks but then you hear about lawyers earning like 30x minimum wage and it boggles my mind. That's a bit too large in my naive min.
>>78844812
You dumbasses realize that capitalism existed in 'Murica since the 19th century.
It makes little sense that capitalism is to blame.
>>78846343
Nice meme
>>78849368
>you must work for me you pleb thrash I am a member of the bourgeousie and you must obey
kys commie faggot, you have to choose whether you want to work for someone or not.
Capitalism is an expression of a political system based on property rights, self-ownership, and individual liberty. You cannot attack capitalism without attack those core values. So go ahead, I'm waiting. Tell me why I should be a slave.
>>78848449
>even though the vast majority of these people earned their wealth legitimately.
US law has so much words in it so ever-changing that word legitimacy lost its meaning. Literally traitors can run for president and be the next one.
>>78849867
The highest income bracket in the 50s resulted in a 90% tax rate
kys
>>78849921
They're trying everything at the moment to dismantle exactly this unfortunately.
>>78849840
Again you are totally clueless
The financial system is based on perpetual debt bubbles and handouts from the FED
They don't "produce" anything of worth beyond cheap credit that wrecks the economy.
I suggest reading this book
https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Host-Financial-Parasites-Bondage/dp/3981484282
>>78848902
By definition there is no such thing as true socialism.
Wealth inequality is not capitalisms fault. The fault lies in the freedom of the market. You could live in a capitalist country but have laws that prevent anyone with less than 10 million in capital from starting a business. Wealth inequality would still be high but you would still be living in a capitalist society.
>>78848903
Not an argument.
>>78849867
??
50s and 60s were much more socialistic.
Way higher taxes, bigger social safety net, more education spending per capita etc etc.
>>78844812
Trickle down economics. The Reagen effect. Blame the retarded Alzheimer's actor who is worshipped by political conservatives. We need to toss these untermensch into the ovens along with the kikes
>>78849457
Workers have more rights than they did 70 years ago, don't give me that shit about the way they're being treated. And wages have adjusted for inflation, the problem is that retards like you never take into consideration the larger role that technology plays and the diminished role of manual labor. Production has increased because technology has made production faster and more efficient. Why pay an unskilled piece of shit more when it's the machine they're using that does most of the work?
Autism
>>78850100
America still had all the same policies that it had for decades
>protecting industry through selective high tariffs (especially 1861–1932) and through subsidies (especially 1932–70)
>government investments in infrastructure creating targeted internal improvements (especially in transportation)
>a national bank with policies that promote the growth of productive enterprises rather than speculation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics)
>>78850321
>Workers have more rights than they did 70 years ago
But less than they had 40 years ago.
>>78850321
>increased productivity decreases wages
that's just dumb
>>78850180
>The financial system is based on perpetual debt bubbles and handouts from the FED
Hmm its almost like its the feds that are the problem not the 1%.
really makes you think.
![Gini_Coefficient_World_CIA_Report_2009[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/gyMeox0.png "Gini_Coefficient_World_CIA_Report_2009[1].png")
>e-everything's fine
>i'll just bash china, mexico, and russia for their inequality instead
>>78850051
>Fashy
>Freemarket
>>78849982
It's called market value britcuck and not all lawyers are banking that much. Only the top law firms with strong track records make that much and they usually tackle aggressive and difficult cases that result in large pay days. Good work doesn't come cheap and they're only worth as much as what people are willing to pay.
>>78844812
Why is it bad if someone else has more money than me?
>>78850305
You do realize that there is no such thing as 'trickle-down economics' and that this is just a liberal meme?
No one actually believed that giving the wealthy more resources would increase the wealth of the lower class. Not Reagan. Not his economic advisers. Not anyone.
>>78850535
see franco and pinochet
>>78850498
Ya its easy to do when you send all your production to third world countries.
Also what is technological advancements?
Why do commies love this retarded graph as if it proves something?
>>78847235
>capitalist pig pls go
Okay comrade
>>78848874
entertainment and food has never been better
thats all that keeps people in line
>>78850160
>They
You mean Griechenland and the other useless dumb fucks in the EU?
>>78847973
The government redistributes over $2 TRILLION annually from the top 40% to the bottom 60%.
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/government-all-levels-redistributed-2-trillion-2012
>>78844812
Assets flow to those who can use them well.
>>78849949
What's the point of "creating value" if you boss will receive 90% of the benefits?
>>78844812
MUH FEDERAL RESERVE
MUH 0% LOANS FOR BIG BIZ
Government controlled money =/= capitalism
>>78850581
>Good work doesn't come cheap and they're only worth as much as what people are willing to pay
This is a concept that these people will never seem to grasp. They think that because you work hard taking out garbage you deserve a huge salary.
>>78847058
Hey, isn't it cool that pretty much everyone is walking around with a ~$500 computer in their pocket? Well memed!
>>78847235
I had my suspicions you were worse than ancient rome, comrade.
>>78850639
It's not a problem in of itself.
It's when that money is being used to leverage increasing political power and influence, allowing them to gain more money, possibly at the expense of others (see private equity and vulture capital firms).
If you don't see a problem with hillary giving 10min speeches for 250k to americas wealthiest then I don't know what to say.
>>78846661
If everyone in the bottom 90% had their salary multiplied by ten in terms of real wealth, and everyone in the top 10% had theirs multiplied by 20, then income inequality would increase dramatically, even tough everyone would be much better off.
>>78850895
Shoo shoo, filthy Jew.
>>78850639
Is that really the conclusion you come to after seeing this graph?
>>78845926
This is the real answer. There would still be disparity in a capitalist society, but much lower.
>>78850719
It proves that people are being left behind.
How about you stop throwing words like "commie" around when nobody's advocating for communism?
If anything, we advocate for a return to real, non-monopolistic capitalism.
>>78849954
I see nothing wrong with your original graph. The burden of proof is on you to explain what is wrong with said graph.
Also: it's not ad hom if it's directed at the validity of an authority figure.
Pike is a well-known liberal who stacks his work full of bias.
>>78844812
This graph pretty much just shows that Reaganomics and our expirement in supply-side economics was a complete failure.
>>78850674
>Franco
>Fascist
Falangism died with Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera.
Pinochet is a meme.
Mussolini, Mosley, Primo de Rivera, Codreanu, etc. all went for the proper solution of mixed markets.
The free market is cancer, the top 1% have a duty to their country.
>>78849573
It's like you're not aware of all the rules, regulations, and taxes that drive companies to outsource overseas.
>>78849406
What the economy needs to be flourishing as well again as it used to, say in the 19th century, is for there to be another industrial revolution or global conflict. One of them is being stopped by commie faggots who think creating rules and roadblocks to the invisible hand is better for them in the end.
>>78850895
It's just one particular voluntary arrangement.
You can either choose to be your own boss, in which case you get to keep as much value as you want- but you also inherit all the financial risks that come with owning a business. Or, you can choose to work for someone else, surrendering a portion of the value you produce in exchange for financial security and access to your boss's resources (which you probably couldn't afford on your own).
Employment is literally a trade, nothing more nothing less. Are you seriously triggered by voluntary trade?
The cucks on /pol/ will continue to defend their masters no matter what
>>78845484
Big banks should go.
>>78850507
Or it's collusion because we are ruled not by our government, but by multinational corporations (globalists) who now effectively have sovereignty over the taxpayers.
>>78850719
outsourcing is not the same thing as technological advancement, dumbass
technological advancement=higher production= lower prices=higher wages
outsourcing/mass immigraiton=lower demand for labor=lower wages
two completely different things entirely
Has the quality of life for the bottom
90% since 1917 improved?
If yes, then I dont think it matters that they actually gained about 3% of the total wealth.
>>78850895
Then start your own company and take 100% of the benifits. You are working for someone else because your too much of a pussy to start your own work or because its better and safer or you don't have enough personal capital.
With a free market personal capital is less of a problem. Just work for you boss until you have enough to work for yourself. or keep working for your boss because you know your business would fail and its safer.
>>78850100
Except no you fucking idiot. Eisenhower's tax rate was only 90% past a certain earned rate and the captial gains tax, which is how most rich people make their money, was %25. And even then, no one paid the 90% rate because you could get fucking deductions. Fucking learn what you're talking about before you open your cocksucking mouth
>>78851221
> duty
Literally a made up bullshit concept with no philosophical value.
>>78850837
No. The high financial oligarchy of a global capital system. Weapons of economy. Well, yes, and lobbyists and their EU goyim.
>>78847235
1% = The Jews
>>78851154
>we advocate for a return to real, non-monopolistic capitalism.
It's industrial capitalism
All these retards here are essentially advocating for globalism (financial capitalism) where a few big banks own everything due to control of monetary policy and the government.
>>78851276
>Work for me next to nothing or starve
>Of course it voluntary! You could theoretically open up a business anytime you want (even though we both know you can't because the upper class that I belong to controls 90% of the wealth
kys u cuck
>>78851450
>Forsaking duty as "Literally a made up bullshit concept with no philosophical value."
Every single time its their turn to contribute to their nation, free market fags pull this shit.
>>78851038
I will never understand the fanaticism with which burgers defend this wealth inequality. Somehow we can't seem to have a healthy middle ground in this world anymore: it gets more extreme, both in socialism and turbo capitalism
>>78851419
real wages have stagnated since the 70s
at the same time people are flooded with debt
>>78850895
Did you put in investment capital?
Did you buy the material?
Did you buy the tools?
Did you buy the building?
Did you buy the land the building is on?
Did you create the idea?
If the answer to any of these is "No", then you have created nothing and you have no right to the profits.
>>78844812
The lack of capitalism is what creates this graph.
The influx of corporatism is what creates this graph.
Anti-competition regulations and merging corporations with government in a vicious symbiotic cycle has created this graph.
A move back to real competition and capitalism eliminates the trend of this graph.
>>78851678
>>78851038
they have been brainwashed by Randians and Friedmanites to think that any form of nationalist policy is "communism"
>>78851194
It wasn't my graph but sure:
The proportion of wealth at the very top is growing faster because they are using that wealth to tilt the board towards them. They use the money to leverage more political power and influence to become richer and richer, at the expense of others. Examples of this are corporate welfare, preferential tax treatment like the carried interest loophole, industry specific subsidies, the list goes on and on.
There is a reason Hillary Clinton is getting paid 250k to give a 10minute "speech" at places like Goldman Sachs, Citibank, etc etc.
And as for Piketty, he has published fundamental mathematical work in journals like JET which clearly has no bias, so you need to do better than attacking his public persona
>>78844812
Creeping socialism
>>78844812
...are you saying
...you would want to
...Make America Great again (or the nearest it has been)
>>78849921
Only works with adqequate fertility rates and low immigration. We practically ruined a good system.
>>78851276
There is no voluntary trade when the vast majority of people need to sell their labor to survive, and when a small minority can exploit this desperation to purchase labor for far less than it's worth.
A trade between people with vastly uneven bargaining power - as the employer/employee relationship is in reality, if perhaps not in porky-written textbooks - leads inevitably to exploitation.
>finite planet
>not zero sum
I don't think you folks quite understand the extant, material reality you're living in.
Revaluing money won't magically make more aluminum come into being. Or anything else. The lands of the Earth are settled, owned and fiercely protected. If your ancestors didn't gobble up at the trough when the getting was good, your chance of staking any of it is slim to none.
Short of conquering productive assets, inertia will stifle all attempts at mobility. The boys of ISIS are taking what Westerners grovel for. Minting gold while you watch financiers manipulate your investments.
Keep at that protestant ethic though. I'm sure one day you'll get a pat on the head for playing by the rules.
>>78851939
*The influx of globalism is what creates this graph.
fixed
>>78851678
Because I'm not an autistic faggot upset at people who have more money than me.
What disgusts me are the faggots who feel entitled to someone else's pie when they have no right to it. If I can't live by my principals then why even fucking live?
>>78846431
>there aren't less people that are poor
lies
Compare King George to a nigger on welfare. The welfare nig has a higher standard of living. Know why? BECAUSE OF WEALTH CREATION FOSTERED BY CAPITALISM
>>78852084
Yes.
Many variables.
None of which are capitalism.
>>78851625
>It is other people's fault that I have to feed myself to live
>Other people should make sure I have enough to eat or they are literally enslaving me.
This is such a tired argument.
>>78851799
Blame the retards who have lived on credit to fund lifestyles they can't afford to maintain the illusion that they're more socially affluent than they actually are.
Government need to take over all business ownership. The government would therefore assign bureaucrats to the board of directors for every company, and all profits for all business would be evenly distributed to the citizens.
Markets would still be competitive because the bureaucrats would hire CEOs to each company that they thought would lead the best and would be paid proportionally to how well they do. People who started the business originally would be given a percentage of the companies profits forever even if the government decides to put in a new CEO.
This form of government fixes capitalism while still being fairly liberal and still having competitive markets. It also has a form of basic income built into it.
>>78851940
Yes, that's what I thought, too. But somehow I thought the majority couldn't remain this indoctrinated forever. It's the same with basic health care for your native population, as if that was communism. And I think Bernie is actually harmin this cause, because he, who was destined to lose from the start, associated SOCIALISM, which is just the same as communism in Murica, with these things. And I knew he would hand over the candidacy to ((Goldman Soros Sachs)) Hillary.
>>78844812
20s sucked
>>78852048
"We" is
>the pill
>leftism
>americanization
>ruined families
>divorce rates
>"multi culturalism"
>muh white guilt, etc.
>>78852083
Here we go, another retarded faggot who equates wealth with entirely physical material but you're also the same retards who equate wealth with actual paper money so that also says volumes about your intelligence regardless
>>78852244
>I have a gun to your head. Give me your money.
You consider this a voluntary arrangement because you're a cuck.
>>78852057
do you think mcdonalds has more bargaining power over one of their workers? really? why not work for burger king?
The fact of the matter is that businesses compete for labour, the problem in contemporary society is inudating the labour market with excess labour via immigration, and increasing the cost of hiring someone which leads businesses to either not higher, higher less or to automate.
>>78844812
At a certain point money turns from money, a thing to get through life with, to capital, stuff used to foster creation, that barely changes your lifestyle anymore if increased. Really the lifestyle of a middle class dude and a Billionaire isn't that different, they both live better than kings of old, just the billionaire probably works harder.
>>78851648
Fucking bootlicker scum. Your "nation" has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars from me, when the hell is it going to pay ME back? And don't fucking tell me it's being given back to me in the form of roads or water or whatever bullshit utility you use to justify your mafia fetish.
You fucking authoritarian shitheads won't be satisfied until everyone owes everyone everything. Fucking slavery is what it is.
>>78852083
Wealth is not just raw goods. There is only so much aluminum, but a person can create more wealth by bending it into a useful shape, such as a coke can. We also have come nowhere close to exhausting our supply of natural resources. There is still plenty of aluminum to be mined.
Wealth ≠income.
You can live like a King but not have any savings, thus no "wealth".
>>78851388
You clearly don't understand economics, friendo. Outsourcing increases the purchasing power of local money by reducing the price.
Mass immigration expands the economy and actually creates many new jobs for the native population, especially higher end ones, since many immigrants are low skilled laborers.
The economy of the future is coming, and globalization(which is an overwhelming force for good, I might add) is going to essentially eliminate severe poverty in the western world.
>inb4 "Zionist shill"
>Inb4 b8
>>78844812
what do you think is going to happen when Hillary wins? its just going to keep on getting worse.
>>78852057
How would you suggest people survive without having to expend energy in the form of labor?
>>78852570
No one has a gun to your head, except nature. If your argument is that nature has enslaved us, well what do you propose to do about that? Unless you know of some way to stop hunger permanently, it is not the capitalist's fault you have to eat.
>>78852267
>wall street creates cheap credit to make everything unaffordable so you need to go into debt to afford anything
>create open border policies to flood the US with illegals who take out bad loans
>Wall street insider Robert Rubin changes the CRA so any unemployed black guy in the country can get a home mortgage if he wants one
>blame the consumers because it was their "choice" to want a good living standard
>>78852378
plz r8
>>78846343
my dad's worked his ass off his whole life. granted he's really well off, worked from a welder to a project manager of a pipe fabrication shop but he's no billionaire.
>>78852570
Nope. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head. The gun you refer to is REALITY.
If your protest is that reality is too hard, you belong in a compost bin.
>>78851276
>>78851437
There are many professions where working for a wage just makes a lot more sense than opening a new business entirely. And besides, opening a small business and making a profit out of it is nigh impossible nowadays. Most people just don't have the knowledge, willingness, time or experience to deal with administration, advertisement, government taxes and regulations. Not to speak of unskilled workers who really don't have a choice to work for a wage (inb4 go get educated).
The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people are wage workers, not self-employed, and the the real problem is that the this "voluntary arrangement" is, in many cases, and especially among the lower classes, not voluntary at all. Ever heard of "wage slavery"? Working long hours for a shit job where you're not even allowed to complain because there are a dozen schmucks out there willing to replace you at a moment's notice.
The entire system is rigged in favor of big businesses employing thousands of disposable little serfs. Competition is quickly squashed or simply bought off, while workers are treated like shit and customers receive shit services. You are clearly trying to just ignore these problems, either because you're ignorant of them (too rich and/or too young) or because you're just going against some pre-conceived notion of "the Left" out of spite.
>>78852694
>globalization is going to essentially eliminate severe poverty in the western world.
HAHAHAHHAHA
only people who benefit from globalization are the 1%
>>78852605
Billionaires living in a mode of perpetual vacation off their dividends work harder than the average working class stiff that barely makes ends meet? And their lives are basically the same in terms of quality?
Top
Fucking
Kek
>>78852570
>it's only ok when I'm holding the gun to someone else's head
Kys violently
>>78852143
Seriously, I don't get you guys. "Entitled" to someone else's pie when they have no right to it? As if the way these people got their pie was always angelic and totally meriotcratic! As if helping people in need, especially if they are your people, wouldn't strengthen the Volk and country in the long run.
We are one people. We stand together. We fall and die together. And I shall not see one of my countrymen suffering, if I can help him out. Because this is the glory of strengthening your Volk, of seeing them prosper and grow stronger.
Also, next time: don't start with an ad hominem, if you want to convince someone, thanks.
>>78844812
Central Banking
>>78844812
Economic inequality exists for the same reason that intellectual and athletic inequality exists; people are unequal. And government cannot make them equal.
>>78852579
But it's not a real competition. Why do you think McDonalds and Burger King alike fight unions so hard? You don't need outright collusion to drive down wages when one party to negotiations is much more desperate than the other - and a fast food worker needs the job much, much more than McDonalds needs one employee.
>>78844812
Ask Hillary. Ever since the rise of the militant left in the West this shit has been happening.
>>78852406
Bernie is fucking awful because he *is* a communist jew that is now discrediting any national policy by associating himself with it.
just a few examples
Sanders saying deodorant choices cause poverty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8hAJ2IdNDE
Sanders supporting Breadlines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJBjjP8WSbc
Sanders supporting Castro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E14lsC4WLV0
>>78847259
muh dick
>>78852666
Not to mention that eventually that aluminum might become obsolete as a superior material is discovered or it's use might be discarded altogether
Wealth is not and never has been a physical thing. It's an inherent value that can potentially existent in anything. Information is wealth, bits of data are wealth, a woman's vagina is wealth.
Wealth is not money, that's something that needs to be stressed hard to these retards who listen to their retarded kikes like Bernie Sanders
>>78851221
muh 1%
Natsocs are annoying because they cannot make an argument against the free market that is not a basic shitlib one, the only one that is valid and I concede, is the notion of materialism vs immaterial value.
I believe a free market would work with fascism, no need for a welfare state minimal regulation just kill commies and create a culture ministry. Use tariffs for protectionist trade policy which also pay state expenditures and done.
>>78852694
>if you make your entire population unemployed or underpaid you solve poverty
Are you Trudeau?
>>78852909
I really, really like your argument, Mr. Morgenstern.
>>78844812
not capitalism
Yay capitalism! :D
>>78846925
Top kek 10/10
>>78853153
The problem is NOT the free market. Free markets are a good thing. The problem is cronyism, monopolies/doupolies and big business influencing government. Why can't you see it?
>>78853096
Don't forget this gem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBIKP4W50-I
>>78853134
>aluminum might become obsolete as a superior material is discovered
Yes, I missed the science lecture on the periodic table of elements as well.
>>78852814
They should be able to keep the fruits of their labor, instead of selling it for a pittance to someone with much more money.
The economy should be structured in such a way which makes this practical for everyone i.e. by abolishing private property and transforming all businesses into employee-owned cooperatives, or perhaps through nationalization and the state paying equal wages.
>>78844812
Crony capitalism and the government
I don't need to justify shit. Capitalism is not a system, it's the natural state of human culture while resource scarcity still exists. If you want more equality, scare the wealthy away with more taxes and not your graph will be nice and tidy and your government will have lost billions
>>78852847
Yes, you are a fucking idiot for wanting to buy that new Dodge Charger when you could only afford that Ford Fusion and wanting to buy that house in the suburbs when you could only afford that flat in the city. No one put a gun to your head and made you sign on the dotted line for the credit card. Your own greed and desire for what you felt you deserved are to blame but as a leftist, the idea of personal responsibility will always escape you
>>78852694
>Outsourcing reduces prices.
This is true. But the drop in prices often isn't big enough to compensate the people who lost their jobs due to outsourcing.
David Autor had a nice paper about this recently.
He said that "No amount of cheap air conditioners is going to make up for the people who lost their manufacturing jobs in the American Midwest"
http://www.nber.org/papers/w21906
>>78847745
Commies think because someone else has more than them, they are entitled to the other person's stuff. Mentally, they are literally on the same level as jealous children.
>>78853404
You're fucking retarded. Aluminum itself is a replacement for materials like glass. If we ever ran out of aluminum, we would just start using other materials again.
>>78844812
That's because we have never really tried free market capitalism. We have a form of corporatism in the USA.
>>78853096
Well, I can somehow relate to what he is trying to say, but that certainly goes beyond what we have as an economy. And it comes of even worse in the states probably. It also doesn't help that Bernie talks like a Schmuck and looks like he just escaped a mental asylum. "Crazy Bernie" was well chosen by Trump.
>>78844812
Capitalism can only work with a strong sense of nationalism. Look at Japan, the CEO to average worker ratio is 1:11, while being 1:475 in the US.
>>78853426
This has been tried before. It failed miserably. Why do you want to keep trying failed ideas?
>>78853622
When did they make planes out of glass?
>>78853622
yeah let's make planes out of glass
>>78853527
I bet the invention of the automobile lost a bunch of horse breeders their jobs too but the government didn't sit around wondering how to compensate obsolete workforce.
TLDR - find another job
>>78844812
Nafta, TPP, illegal immigration, companies use the cheapest labor, quality of life goes down, wages go down, finding a job gets harder
I hope Trump wins and breaks the NAFTA and TPP, so our agriculture grows back again so our poor people can live, and you guys get Ford back and the likes
>>78853356
Every single one of the 'lowest' tier part is still more wealthy than every single one of the 'upper middle' tier in Venezuela.
>>78853527
Outsourcing and immigration benefits the upper classes who get all the benefits of cheaper products/services without the downsize of losing their livelihood.
But nationalism and protectionism are dirty words now, and multinational globalists rule the halls of politics, so outsourcing and immigration are all we get.
>>78853747
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
seems to be doing ok to me
:^)
>>78853511
>you should have a lower standard of living so bankers can make more interest on cheap credit
>you should literally not be able to afford a family because wall street CEOs should be legally allowed to make loans to illegal immigrants so they can afford housing and drive up prices
This is a suicidal policy
>>78853134
>aluminum might become obsolete as a superior material is discovered
I knew /pol/ was stupid. I knew it. But still I stand here in disbelief.
>>78852547
Yeah, sums it up.
But I think a prosperous mixed economy actually contributes to these developments. The lack of darwinism leads to hedonism, victim culture and dysfunctional families, that wouldn't even survive the next winter if it wasn't for the generosity of the welfare state.
>>78847235
Do something, so someone pays you money. That's it. It's not that hard. Work for someone, provide a service or produce a good. The system is literally: Get someone to give you money. It isn't rigged.
>>78853820
Have you EVER tried getting a job you underage little shit?
>>78853007
How they earned their money is none of your business if it was entirely legal and if you feel the need to help someone, dig into your own pocket, don't dig into someone else's.
I'm not going to fall for the bullshit of "we're all in this together" because we're not. We as humans have always competed, for food, for mates, for living space, ect. If someone wants to get their life on track, they need to pick their assses up and get to work instead of whining to the world about how someone should help because of their own perceived sense of self worth that they feel others should respect.
Eat a dick
>>78853975
ye I have, as opposed to whining at the government for compensating me
poor people just need to gid gud, and make money
>>78853757
Who mentioned planes? I was talking about aluminum cans.
>>78854069
And how well did it go?
How much time did it take you?
>>78851799
Just ignoring the question entirely.
>>78853820
We aren't talking about new inventions. The air conditioner already existed.
We are talking about outsourcing the jobs overseas to 3rd worlders who will work for a much lower wage. Again, read the paper or atleast the post or don't comment
>>78853356
middle decreased by 11%
upper middle increased by 2%
highest increased by 5%
lowest increased by 4%
Wow so more people moved up than down. I guess feelings aren't a very good way of governing people!
>>78854007
Society is literally built on cooperation you stupid monkey. It just so happens we live in a system where groups of people cooperate to enrich a CEO.
kys
>>78854188
welcome to the global market, enjoy your stay
employers need to stay competitive and so do employees. You can either sit around moaning that the calculator plant shut down or get a skill that's still in demand
>>78853747
>a majority of people even in capitalist "success stories" like East Germany want communism back
>most post-communist countries, after brief experiments with "democracy", became dictatorships so that the rich could keep their ill-gotten gains and commies wouldn't be voted back in
The USSR had flaws - most notably the dominance of a single vanguard party, which ultimately proved its undoing and which I would not seek to repeat. But it did not fail let alone miserably - that was Yeltsin.
>>78853967
and you get paid a wage far below the value you create
and this is ok because what?
why do you want to be robbed blind by porkies every day?
>>78853700
> falling for libshit memes
U.S. ratio is not 475 you fucking retard. That number was taken from the top 500 CEOs.
The average salary of all 250,000 CEOs in the U.S. is $178,400. Most CEOs make less money than fucking psychiatrists.
>>78854149
worst I had was about 6 months. I had it tough but I learned a trade and in the end I came through
>>78854007
Why don't you cunts get it?
This isn't about jealousy or some moral panic about fairness or unfairness.
It's about the standard of living for the vast majority of people stagnating and even outright falling for the past ~40 years. It's about an impossible job market where employers have an enormous advantage over employees. It's about an economic system where monopolies and cartels fixate prices and use their cash to buy off politicians.
>>78853963
You fucknut, aluminum was merely example but go ahead and be a retard and ignore my entire point because you can't make an argument
>>78854351
Are you arguing for globalism?
>>78852406
>free
This is America. Socialism was always supposed to be half communism. That means that socialism is like taking away half our freedoms.
Nothing in this world comes without consequence. You can't both be free and have everything socialized. It doesn't work that way.
>>78844812
World War coming soon?
>>78854487
I'm arguing for a global market. Don't like it, enforce protectionist policy and see where it takes you
I do believe the top .1% of basketball players likely score more points in basketball than the entire bottom 90% combined and I see nobody complaining about that.
>inb4 They were born into wealth, basketball is a skill
>being tall and black and muscular is not genetic
>>78844812
the USA is not a true capitalist country
the sheer size of the USA causes inequality since wealth cannot spread evenly
it's better than being a commie
>>78854432
>about 6 months
And does this sound normal to you?
>>78854194
and all but the very top are now soaked in debt
you didn't think this through
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/24/household-debt-climbs-to-1225-trillion-in-first-quarter.html
