Hey /pol/icemen; can I get a FRACKING: "what liberals think" vs "reality" thread with pics?
Forgive me for being on my phone but I need some memes to crush my mothers opposition to it; this all started when I claimed to her that fracking problems are memes/ propaganda created by Saudi types and off shore drilling conglomerates to discourage us from doing it because it is too easily decentralized and privatized into smallish businesses for them to have a grip on it
Also
>/pol/ygamous autists don't respond because they're too busy in their circle jerk
Also discuss more about the Saudis plan of rebranding Islam in this more aggressive form (Wahabi) because they see the writing on the wall and know they will soon lose their grip on the oil/ power so they are funding mosques all over the western world to be able to use Muslims as a political battering ram to stay relevant and powerful.
Fracking is shit
>Please help me win an argument with my mother
kek
I always turn aquifers off, too much of a hassle to go through them, and you can get all the water you need from caves.
>>78816237
cheaper to frack and clean up than to ship from Saudi Arabia which has horrible human rights, treats women like shit, and funds terrorism (while we fight it)
>>78816351
FPBP
>>78816502
true that, but the middle of the US is almost all one aquafer
>>78816237
If you're really an oil man you should know all the arguments already.
>t. reservoir engineer
>>78816574
Saudi Arabia is one of the USs greatest allies though....
Also fracking a shit. It's nice if you have a large uninhabited area, but if there's farmland or a human polulation it's not the greatest idea.
See the drill hole that goes through the water that folks drink. It will be there until the end of time. Do you expect me to believe it will never leak?
Fraking is Jewish
>>78816728
Just generate a new continent then.
>>78816816
it was a there will be blood reference
>>78816237
>oil man
>>78816861
>((((((((((((Greatest Ally))))))))))))))))))
OYYYYY VEYYYYY
My family is from ND which has seen an economic boom due to fracking.
They all get checks from it, but my grandmother's water in particular tastes terrible. leave it out for a few minutes and you see the rainbow shit on top. Those vids of people lighting their faucets on fire? Iv'e seen that in person.
But money is money. Might make the land worthless to farming or inhabitation in the future but life, uf, finds a way.
Gotta weigh the benefits vs the risks. That goes with everything.
I would highly discourage it in heavily populated states or ones essential to te agricultual sector. ohio, pensylvania, illinois, even kansas.
but north dakota who gives a shit. Trust me if your family's had to put up with that bullshit weather for generations you deserve a break.
>>78816237
So you are in the oil/fracking industry but don't have any arguments for fracking? And your argument against it is that anti fracking propoganda is memes? So to prove your argument you are looking for pro fracking memes?
You are the reason i hate normies.
>>78816816
He's making a joking reference to " There Will Be Blood"
8/10 OP I chuckled
I don't have any pictures but as a petroleum engineering student, I do know that fracking usually occurs 10,000 to15,000 feet down. That is well below the depth where it could reach our drinking water.
Just frack where nobody lives
Like northern Canada
Make us rich, cucks
>>78816861
>t. Salim Abu-Nefir Kassem Al-Hossan Nadir
>>78817000
Ok then only major argument against fracking is lack of oversight with injection wells. You get some really shitty geologists doing poor evaluations for injection wells and then you get induced tremors. It's hard as shit to model which is the same reason CO2 capture systems are destined to fail. I'm actually working on a project right now evaluating caprock integrity and we're having all types of problems.
>>78816237
Reality:
>>78817278
this. But with climate change the northerners might need to be the breadbasket of the world, so still a risk.
see >>78817125
>>78816502
It's more realistic, though.
Although, you could just build your fort in an area without aquifers.
>>78817348
>You get some really shitty geologists doing poor evaluations for injection wells and then you get induced tremors
They can also be bribed :p
>>78817521
There is still a risk from the portion of the well going through the aquifer, plus geological formations very greatly.
>>78817695
>going through the groundwater
But all wells in the US, even the non-fracked ones, go through groundwater.
>2016
>still need oil
Humanity pls
>>78816495
I just want pictures, recently my parents and I have started to have healthy political conversations over text message; I used to resent my parents for being divorced republicans, but I came to understand them a few years ago when I was having the whole libertarian style conversion
>>78817000
>>78817175
Thanks it's a family business with my son J.W.
>I'm an oil man
I live in Houston and work in the Energy sector too.
My 6 figure existence depends on natural gas pipelines which compromises over 80% of my companies work. So I won't say what I do or give my client lists which includes all of them.
Fracking messes with the only untainted water supplies in the USA. That is a proven fact. The natural gas from fracking was promised to be used to lower gas and energy prices in the US. As someone who works on converting ALL of the Liquid Natural Gas Importing facilities into EXPORTING facilities as well as the reverse flow compressor station designs I can honestly say that the vast majority of that "Cheap gas" is not lowering prices, but being sold overseas. We don't get a fourth as much work on new or upgraded distribution pipelines as we get on overseas export pipelines.
Fracking as it currently stands is a net negative for Americans. Until it is sold mostly domestically it is all risk with no reward. I will take the hit to my paycheck. Don't worry about me.
>>78816502
>not getting all your water from a river
Do you only play on glaciers?
>>78818052
Read Hydraulic Fracture Mechanics by Valko and Economides. Economides also wrote the Color of Oil which I strongly recommend.
To get the fundamentals Hubbert & Willis (1957) is the original paper on fracture mechanics.
>>78816926
See the pipe that makes the hole?
>>78818282
>houston
>ng
I reprted your post to williams hr. I hope you get fired.
>>78816861
T. Mohammad Ahmed al-jihad ackbar
>>78818208
Nice
>>78816926
Canada, every well drilled in the US, fracked or non-fracked, goes through that water.
>>78818780
*Every well in the world not just the US I should say, except Africa where they still do open hole completions because they are in the stone age.
>fracking
>not just making Alberta the 51st state
Oil independent overnight
>>78817521
You don't know fracking do you.
At the pressures involved that pipe leaks like a sieve. Majority goes down to the shale formation but the amount that leaks towards the top isn't insignificant.
>>78817799
Yes but theres multiple layers of steel casing surrounded by cement. Its then pressure tested to ensure there aren't any leaks
>>78816237
A company recently started out doing some fracking work about 130km from where I live.
Should I be worried? We get our water from a dam that's located in the mountains near here.
>>78818780
Why don't we get our oil from Canada Alaska fracking and why don't we just CIA the Venezuelans I heard they've got the largest oil reserves in the world
Don't worry fellow /pol/ygons I'm almost at work then I can actually participate in conversation rather than on this shit phone
>>78818282
>Houston
theres you're problem. In the northeast we used to have to ship all our gas from your way. Energy and heating costs used to be 6x what they are now. The NE is extremely bottlenecked right now in reference to the pipelines. Midstream is about the only thing going on up here atm.
The Saudis are divesting from oil because of climate change.
But beyond your theories and your hatred of liberals, fracking does cause earth quakes, and I've seen quite a few wells around major US interstates, does not bode well for the future.
>>78818997
Oh my Lord. Nostalgia'd hard.
>78819164
except for the fact that they don't weld the pipe joins and rely on the concrete that is closer to the fracking pressure source than the shale rock to "contain" the fracking sludge.
>>78819411
Canadian and venzeulan oil are more viscous so fracking won't do much good.
flow = (permeability * Area * change in pressure)/viscosity*length
What they do a lot of in Canada is SAGD which is Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage. By using steam to heat up the oil they can decrease viscosity and get far better production.
Lmao at that pic.
I may be misremembering this, but I do believe most fracking takes place kilometres below any aquifers or underground drinking water.
>>78819256
yup
>>78816237
Fracking doesn't matter to me because I live in a decent state that would never do that to its population. If you live it shit states in the north and Midwest, fracking runoff is probably the least of your concerns.
People should stop worrying about those that live in Godforsaken places.
>drilling well goes right through the aquifer
>nah it's fine there's no way shit could leak outta that pipe
>>78816237
>scale on that pic
Fracking is wonderful. Fuck off Ahmed.
t. geologist
>>78817939
>>78820055
What's worse is that I live in one of the biggest agricultural states and we really are dependent on water aquifers to irrigate our crops, since we get a very long season with no rain. Maybe people should start sabotaging their shit
>>78820559
You could always build a wall around the drill site
>>78818917
Hello lads, OP here, just got to work and on my computer now
pic related is my opinion of how the Americas should be split
-Red is Manifest Destiny U.S.A
-Blue is Keep Canada Gay and French (yes I know some of the regions are English speaking but we don't want them anyway)
-Green is Sovereign States that if I had the power I would incite coups in for independent revolts/ International Post Colonial Dispositional Independence Votes because these would be perfect areas to be small sovereign independent nations that make their money through banking and being tax havens, and garner protectionism through neighboring large nations that have a vested interest in protecting them for geopolitical brownie points as well as maintaining the tax haven status (basically they are Island Nation Switzerlands of the Americas
-Purple is areas that should be part of Mexico/ Greater Hispanic Central America
whilst simultaneously fucking off
How do you guys like the map and idea of these green areas having secessionist movements? I don't know, maybe just me, but I really like the idea of small island nations that are tax havens
>>78817695
You mean the risk that you propaganda-swilling Jews never mention until someone first calls you out for what dishonest kikes you're being with infographics like the faggot OP posted?
Funny how the only actual risk of groundwater penetration is the one you lying Jews don't even bother to mention until you absolutely have to, after your lies have been called on... as a last resort.
I'm sure that's simply a coincidence.
>>78819940
It does. Russia and other OPEC countries (especially Russia) release this anti-fracking propaganda because US shale fracking has absolutely destroyed their economy. Gullible idiots here believe anything anti-fracking they see because its the celebrity cool thing to do like believing in global warming. Its gotten to the point where the Russian propaganda machine doesn't even have to try anymore. Like in op's picture they can toss some shit together in 3 minutes and get it trending on facebook/twitter.
>>78820559
People like you are why Trump got the nomination. Literally no other reason.
As an engineer who does all sorts of environmental remediation...
There are several examples where the environmental impact of an operation isn't seen until years later, and then once the companies who have made their profit are long gone, the citizens then have to pay to collectively clean it up through taxes.
Occasionally lawsuits are done, but what usually happens is new regulations to prevent it happening again in the future, so that the companies doing it "clean up after themselves". A simple concept, and one you might do when cooking, doing laundry, working on your car, but for businesses it is always balked at as "regulations are killing jobs!"
I've heard far to many times how actions have no impact, to see them years later down the road having an impact.
Examples:
>Erosion control, soils running off into water ways we used to ignore, now we control so we don't have to pay to clean it out at water plants.
>strip & underground mining, we have to go back and fill in/reinforce century old mines, now we have regulations in place to not have to pay for it
>ground water contamination, people used to just dump shit everywhere, now we regulate contaminated water disposal
I can go on and on, the theme is simple though. One side says how these regulations ruin their profit & prevent jobs, the other side wants to protect the environment so we don't collectively pay. After years of working in this field, the average person is simply getting fucked out of sheer ignorance because the damage is usually already done, and will need fixed at a much larger future cost - not paid for by the people who caused it usually.
>>78820319
>>nah it's fine there's no way shit could leak outta that pipe
>no way shit could leak outta that pike
Do you know what fracking is? It's the deliberate release of chemicals/water at high pressure into these areas to displace the oil which comes out later.
Of course the chemicals are going to leak out, that's why they don't do it near water that is used for drinking.
The only issue with fracking is that companies don't have to disclose the chemicals they use, so people believe it to be a secret sauce of toxic stuff. In reality it's mostly just high pressure water.
>>78816237
fracking is trash and people are going to regret it when the water ends up being worth 10x the amount of money oil is.
>>78816237
>Hey /pol/icemen
I prefer the term /pol/lok. /pol/lster perhaps.
>>78816237
It causes mild earthquakes, can poison groundwater, and in general it just isn't a good idea.
>Hey there's some oil down there in between tectonic plates
>Let's blast a whole shitload of chemicals and water down there to get it out
>>78820878
>You mean the risk that you propaganda-swilling Jews never mention until someone first calls you out for what dishonest kikes you're being with infographics like the faggot OP posted?
I agree that the majority of antifrackers are useless idiots that get it wrong and mislead others. But this is one of those broken clock moments. The leaks at the top are occurring. It does fuck with well water. And the majority of it is being sold overseas.
>>78816237
>I need some memes to crush my mothers opposition to it
I would of gone with facts but you know, whatever floats your boat.
>>78821108
>People like you are why Trump got the nomination. Literally no other reason.
Why do trumplets always force their trump meme on any given topic?
Lmao
>>78817939
>thinking humanity will ever be "green energy" until oil runs out
unless a shitton of money is dumped into nuclear, which is then deregulated, oil will always be far far more energy valuable, because of how much energy you get out for how little energy you put in. It is literally always going to be worth it, even with nuclear, because it works like
>uses a gallon of oil
>gets 100 gallons of oil
see how that works? the investment/ cost ratio will always be so high that it will be used to exhaustion
>>78820775
MAKE NORTH AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Good choice leaving Manitoba out as well, place is full of fucking indians that drink lysol
Any holy shit look up "what chemicals are used in fracking" on Google. How much are the saudis/OPEC paying google to skew those results? I fucking knew google would be in on the conspiracy too.
>>78817939
this desu desu FAMALANIA
cuckoowatch
>>78818282
asjusted for inflation, we currently have the lowest consumer price of gasoline ever seen on planet earth. This is all due to the oversupply created by American shale fracking.
You would know this if you were actually an oilman instead of a paid Hillary shill. Fuck off, this is a Trump board
>>78822201
I can agree that for applications like cars and such oil still is needed.
Nuclear and hydroelectric are more than viable when it comes to powering peoples homes.
Then again, not every country has the river systems like us.
>>78822659
meanwhile in europe we pay out the ass for gas and energy but yet we have envirotards getting fracking and nuclear power banned.
>>78822229
So close to a noticed digits
Yea, my favorite part is the green
I think it's foolish for large enough island nations in the middle of trade centers to EVER join mainland nations. This is why I think that Sicily should be independent as well, and Corsica, and Sardinia. Vancouver/ Nova Scotia Newfoundland independence should be an obvious natural move, because they would be able to make their own laws, they would be a sufficient size for Canada (lol) and the US to protect, but they would still be able to maintain Switzerland like monetary policy that makes them rich
Now that I think about it..
Any /pol/acks want to move to Newfoundland and or Nova Scotia to stage a coup and form a new nation? Keep in mind, Canada is EXTREMELY geopolitically weak
How easy would it be to reduce tariffs to less than Canada or the US, and catch all of those sweet sweet import exports from Europe and the Americas? I mean sheit, a yuge port/ offshore tax haven naming operation island? What could even possibly go wrong?
>>78821799
you sure that isn't a meme?
>>78821737
my mistake, what about /pol/inators? or /pol/ymaths? or even /pol/ite /pol/ka dancers?
>>78816237
>the Saudis plan of rebranding Islam in this more aggressive form (Wahabi) because they see the writing on the wall and know they will soon lose their grip on the oil/ power so they are funding mosques all over the western world to be able to use Muslims as a political battering ram to stay relevant and powerful.+ 0 post omitted.
they've been warlike and expansionist for 1400 years, their most perfect example, the prophet of islam, was a mass-murdering warlord. It's not a new phenomenon, they have conquered 57 christian, hindu, buddhist and other states, and their holy text demands they don't stop till they conquer the entire world. "I have been commanded to fight until religion is only for Allah"
if you want to be informed, read their quran and hadiths, the quran is quite short
fracking is great, supercool tech with horizontal drilling and exploding bolt things, and cheaper energy, how could that be bad?
>>78824102
I think there actually is some evidence that it can cause very, very minor earthquakes. Then again, so can geothermal and other "green" energies that liberals support.
The groundwater contamination is bullshit, though. Or at least no more risk than there ever has been with any hole dug into the earth. If your well casing is shoddy and fails, there's a risk that aquifer you dug through can get contaminated with whatever you're pumping into or pulling out of the well, regardless of whether what you're pumping includes fracking fluids or not.
Fracking fluids are also relatively benign I think, basically just water and sand. Hydrocarbons getting into drinking water is probably a bigger concern than the fracking fluids getting in.
>>78824102
It doesn't cause widespread poisoning of the ground, but it can cause localized problems.
Places like Arkansas have seen many, many small earthquakes due to fracking.
Not only can it poison the ground, but it can also poison the air.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/25/justice/texas-family-wins-fracking-lawsuit/
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pennsylvania-fracking-idUSKCN0WC2I8
>CNN
>Reuters
These are actual lawsuits that people won against fracking companies.
>>78823075
Yea why do envirotards hate nuclear, that's what I want to know. It leads me to believe that they literally are ops by foreign governments to cripple the west
What could possibly be wrong with nuclear? Oh? Your fuckin precious commie Soviet Union decades ago was incapable of operating a reactor so you think that the western free market in this day and age can't?
Is that really what it is?
Nuclear is the only thing that can replace oil
>>78825417
Even right-winged oppose nuclear energy. They think that a plant can just go into meltdown because someone presses the wrong button.
There are dozens of safety systems in place for nuclear power plants. It's safer then even hydroelectric generation.
>>78816237
>Please give me arguments, because I'm unable to provide them myself yet I know I am right.
>>78825417
Thorium is like a million times as energy dense as oil?
and the LFTR design runs at atmospheric pressure, and doesn't require active cooling backup(it fails safe). also there is something like 300 times as much Thorium as Uranium, and the LFTR can burn nuclear waste. Invented and tested by the yanks in the 50s, now the first commercial version is being built... in Chiyna
Nuclear gets a bad rap for a few accidents.
The issue here is that these accidents are FUCKING magnitudes worse than other energy generation accidents.
Nuclear is generally safe if done right... but we can't always trust people to make the right decisions 100% of the time, because humans make errors. Since failures are so much worse, people are hesitant to want a nuclear plant nearby, and want a lot of safety measure in place (regulations).
People want things but don't want to be the ones to pay for it. We want cheap energy, but we want someone else to have the plant in their backyard.
>>78816237
>Fracking chemicals
It's fucking water. Sandy water.
The chemicals you should be worried about are the chemicals already in the oil. Sulfur and heavy metals and shit.
>>78826336
Sorry to burst your bubble but fracking chemicals include everything from Benzene to Xylene.
>>78826782
Fracking chemicals are contained within the well and do not usually contaminate drinking water.
>>78818665
They line the bore hole with cement, but shitty, thin cement. It's really only expected to last ~80 years in good conditions.
>>78827162
>Do not usually
>usually
That's the key word there. I'll agree that usually they don't, but they still can. In the same way that usually deep-water drilling doesn't cause oil spills, but sometimes it happens, and sometimes millions of barrels get released into the ocean.
I'm not saying it should be stopped, I'm saying that companies should be more cautious when it comes to fracking.
The waste of energy and pollution from producing solar panels or other such crap would be horrendous compared to fracking.
You can't get energy for free from nothing; fracking isn't perfect but it's the closest thing.
>>78826782
aka hydrocarbons aka the stuff in the crude oil that would be getting pumped through the well regardless of if fracking was used or not?
>>78816237
Fracking occurs much farther below the surface dumbass or you would just use a drill for that. All water contamination occurs when the chemicias were on the surface and leaked out, Fracking occur thousands of feet below the surface
>>78828035
This isn't about pumping, this is about injecting poisonous chemicals into the earth before the pumping.
You do have a point, but forcing these chemicals down there just adds to potential problems. There have been court cases where people have won lawsuits against fracking companies.
>>78827713
>The waste of energy and pollution from producing solar panels or other such crap would be horrendous compared to fracking.
Do you have a source for this? I know solar panel production causes pollution, but I wasn't aware it caused more pollution than from oil or gas.
>>78826782
>>78828035
Which begs the question, are those chemicals that are part of the fracking fluid *before* it gets pumped into the ground, or are they chemicals that it picks up after it mixes with the crude miles underground? What's your source on that?
Because if it's picking up benzene or whatever from the crude you're drilling for, that's kind of a "no shit" thing. And any risks of these chemicals getting into groundwater are again, not exclusive to fracking. Even if hydraulic fracturing wasn't being used, the drilling mud or other fluids used during conventional drilling techniques could bring them up closer to the surface and contaminate groundwater *if the well casing was insufficient and allowing drilling fluids to leak into the aquifer*
In the end if always boils down to well casing. Do the casing right and you don't have to worry about contaminants getting into aquifers, regardless of what you're pumping into or pulling out of the well. Fracking isn't some boogeyman like ignorant liberals like to make it out to be.
>>78820775
Love it, praise to keke
>>78817348
That's a pretty fucking good argument considering how insanely corrupt the energy sector is and how much money they have to throw around. If people were infallible then fracking would be great but as it stands I don't trust those money-grubbing hook-nosed shits to do anything except squeeze as much money as possible out of their operations in as little time as possible and everything else be damned. Sick livestock, contaminated water tables, toxic runoff entering surface water- all of that shit happens all the fucking time and it gets buried quickly and quietly because cash gets thrown at the people in a position to do something.
In theory fracking is fine but in practice it's unconscible.
>>78816237
Stupid oil man.
We need the oil for wars.
Can't power a tank with solar panels.
Oil is a resource we shouldn't squander.
>>78828776
it does the thing is solar decreases over a wide time range because the pollution is mostly in the creation where as oil and ever other low carbon emission energy alternatives will continue through their lifespan
https://www.edfenergy.com/future-energy/challenges/climate-change
>>78828776
>>78825741
I waas making arguments, I wanted the meme pictures that people created in order to show "what liberals think" versus "what fracking actually is"
but ok bud, you got me, I just can't make arguments! Is what logic?
>>78825638
so why won't people get with the times and understand this?
Canada, you want to be part of my right wing incursion in newfoundland to create a nice nuclear energy caliphate/ import-export ports along the east coast with low tariffs/ tax haven banking island?
There really is no west atlantic switzerland yet, and newfoundland would be the perfect place for that because it is an already defined island
What are your plans for CIA'ing them? I have some plans, I think technically because of international law created by the english after colonialism any geographically defined area could just become a sovereign state with enough votes but I could be wrong
>>78825888
yes but no matter how energy dense something is (also, saying thorium is x times as energy dense is a misnomer, it's about energy input and output) doesn't change the fact that oil is profitable, because you invest less energy in than you get out.
guaranteed oil will not be surpassed until it becomes (((actually))) scarce with an (((actual peak oil))) although I don't know if these oil guys are throttling other energy production methods purposefully in order to sooner or later get a Diamond-market-esque monopoly on oil in the future when we are caught flat footed unable to produce without oil
>>78828806
yes, chemicals are added to the water being pumped down
>Fracking isn't some boogeyman like ignorant liberals like to make it out to be.
no, they just want old and poor people to die off in winter
>>78829788
the natsocs made synthetic oil during the war
>>78831316
>yes but no matter how energy dense something is (also, saying thorium is x times as energy dense is a misnomer, it's about energy input and output) doesn't change the fact that oil is profitable, because you invest less energy in than you get out.
>
>guaranteed oil will not be surpassed until it becomes (((actually))) scarce with an (((actual peak oil))) although I don't know if these oil guys are throttling other energy production methods purposefully in order to sooner or later get a Diamond-market-esque monopoly on oil in the future when we are caught flat footed unable to produce without oil
I agree that oil is very useful and the BOE is very impressive, you can't run a car off thorium.
you know why Chiyna is the only region producing rare earth metals? because they are found with Thorium, and it's toxic, radioactive and useless(at the moment). America has huge deposits of the stuff.
might I recommend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sG9_OplUK8
?
according to the ever realiable wiki, Uranium has an energy density of 1,539,842,000(MJ/L), Thorium is 929,214,000, and Gasoline is 34.2.
This equates to Thorium being 27,170,000 times as energy dense, so presumably you could spend 27 million times as much on extracting it and building reactors and infrastructure as Oil, for the same energy out?
and there is a lot more Thorium in the earths crust than Uranium
>>78831152
This map is interesting as fuck, unless, that is, you work for the Saudis
>>78816237
>private well
Stop drinking mud desu
>>78832898
I don't know much about this topic, so the information is greatly appreciated
from what I know, it would seem that america is falling behind in terms of advancing thorium technology, and attempting to mine rare earth metals
but all I know from this is snippets here and there, and trump talking about america losing the opportunity we had to mine rare earth metals in Iraq
what should I know about rare earth metals? How close are we to utilizing Thorium?
in your opinion, do *we* as in western governments, probably already have the ability to utilize thorium, and they just don't know if eastern governments already have that, and if they will steal it from us when we come out with the technology?
Also, random question, but maybe you have a cursory knowledge of physics. Do you think there are environmental implications to moving heavy, highly conductive metals, from the crust, to the surface?
I have always theorized that yuge lightning storms happen in areas that are metal rich because it creates a higher voltage between the clouds and the ground
does that make sense?
am I just waiting for a Nobel Prize at this point?
>>78834041
>he can't see any benefit to having your own water supply in America the land of fluoride and conditioning
>>78834560
I'd rather have a shot of fluoride together with everyone than be that one retard with lead poisoning because he was eating mud in his back yard
>>78834141
>from what I know, it would seem that america is falling behind in terms of advancing thorium technology, and attempting to mine rare earth metals
yep
>but all I know from this is snippets here and there, and trump talking about america losing the opportunity we had to mine rare earth metals in Iraq
not heard of that, but if we had the chance we should have used it
>what should I know about rare earth metals? How close are we to utilizing Thorium?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor
"Alvin M. Weinberg pioneered the use of the MSR at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. At ORNL, two prototype molten salt reactors were successfully designed, constructed and operated. These were the Aircraft Reactor Experiment in 1954 and Molten-Salt Reactor Experiment from 1965 to 1969. Both test reactors used liquid fluoride fuel salts
>in your opinion, do *we* as in western governments, probably already have the ability to utilize thorium, and they just don't know if eastern governments already have that, and if they will steal it from us when we come out with the technology?"
oh come on now, when has Chiyna ever stolen our technologies? Anyway, I think patents only last for 25 years or so, which makes these designs available for anyone
all that wasted time
>Do you think there are environmental implications to moving heavy, highly conductive metals, from the crust, to the surface?
we're only talking about a few tons, but I suppose there might be some implications
>I have always theorized that yuge lightning storms happen in areas that are metal rich because it creates a higher voltage between the clouds and the ground
wouldn't the opposite happen, as the voltage imbalance would be more easily dispersed?
>does that make sense?
ha, I'm the nobel prize now!
>>78819256
mm enjoy that diarrhea, oil goes right through the body
>>78819256
>>78836743
mexicans are immune to diarrhea
>>78835269
>wouldn't the opposite happen, as the voltage imbalance would be more easily dispersed?
it would depend on the elements, but metals are all conductive in certain situations, which, a huge voltage difference because of polarized water tumbling over itself (like a static electricity type deal) would do it
>oh come on now, when has Chiyna ever stolen our technologies? Anyway, I think patents only last for 25 years or so, which makes these designs available for anyone
I don't know, I don't even really understand the global economy anymore, it would seem that europe and america should be crashed by now, but I guess it's a "too big to fail" type of thing; as in, there is nobody else on earth to replace this group anyway
It might just be an issue of the West is basically too bogged down by these huge industries like pharmacy, energy, etc, that they over regulate all of our political channels and keep advancedment from happening to any noticeable effect
>from what I know, it would seem that america is falling behind in terms of advancing thorium technology, and attempting to mine rare earth metals >yep
why do you think this is? Why have we neglected to advance at this point? I think it's not even just in terms of energy either, but also in terms of military, also, another question
Why isn't Russia more of a threat? I understand why older americans see russia as a huge threat all the time and want to sado-masochistically roadblock russia at every point, but my question is, why isn't russia a bigger threat? They have so many natural resources, so many, yet their economy is what? equal to Italy? or California? I don't understand
>>78834940
How much lead is in your groundwater, man? I don't think there's so much lead particulates in groundwater, everywhere, I mean come on, it's a single super heavy element, it wouldn't end up in the same spot as groundwater
>>78837822
>I don't know, I don't even really understand the global economy anymore, it would seem that europe and america should be crashed by now, but I guess it's a "too big to fail" type of thing; as in, there is nobody else on earth to replace this group anyway
cartels and monopolies have mostly replaced free enterprise and innovation, along with schools that fail the clever and promote the stupid, and overregulation puts a huge burden on firms and keeps out new players
>>78837822
>why do you think this is? Why have we neglected to advance at this point? I think it's not even just in terms of energy either, but also in terms of military, also, another question
too many pigs at tyhe trough doing favors for their cronies, and perhaps elite kike control which prefers Whites to die out through mixing rather than succeeding
>Why isn't Russia more of a threat?
decades of kike control and cultural marxism
>>78820775
On the coast of bc turn all the islands red or you will cripple our halibut supply
>>78839784
I say we make a small island nation there. Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick are in the perfect place for soveriegn island nation unification
Think about it such a small area is easily governable, but can maintain fishing, can have a huge import export economy due to the ability to lower tariffs further than the US and Canada, and we could also offer tax haven like offshore banks for all the east coasters and quebecers
Pic related is our new country
Also
>implying Trudeau wouldn't let it happen in a gesture of how progressive and nice he is, so much so that he allows their independence
>>78816237
your mother is right though, fracking is terrible, and there is absolutely no reason, aside from lobbyists, for why the US shouldn't and isn't able to move to an entirely renewable energy fueled power grid.
>>78843439
has any country done this, but stayed relevant?
(it could be a huge energy input output ratio that the US wouldn't survive the hit because of the petrol dollar tied to our economy)
>>78842178
I prefer taking back a section of america, or the UK, or both
>>78817521
Hey! You're drinking my milkshake!
>>78843661
There are plenty of countries that are taking steps towards relying more on cleaner sources of energy - even if not 100% renewable, nuclear is another great alternative as it has no harmful emissions.
The problem with the US is that it'd be near impossible to push such a large change all at once, it'd need to be introduced slowly over the course of a decade or two, but certainly I think that it's something that the government could and should subsidize it.
Offer electric car charging docks in cities, discounts on the cars, promote using solar panels for homes, etc. in return for a lower property tax rate or something - it's really up to local municipalities to take these steps and decide how best to encourage it, but it could certainly be done to encourage renewable energies in a lot of different areas, even if oil and petrol still dominate when it comes to vehicles and industrial applications.
>>78832898
>you can't run a car off thorium
This is true BUT you can run a car off hydrogen and the two go hand in hand. As it stands right now if you want to produce hydrogen you need oil but you can also create it from water with electrolysis. Electrolysis as it is now requires much more energy than you get out but high temperature electrolysis is much more efficient but we have no convenient source of heat. Thorium could change that especially since they run at much higher temperatures than standard reactors and efficiency will become less of an issue when we have surplus energy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_electrolysis
Really the applications for thorium are endless and it boggles my mind that we haven't invested in it yet.
>>78845059
batteries, generators in wind turbines and solar cells depend on rare earth metals, which are a finite resource. how then are they renewable?
in addition the mining process is incredibly polluting
I don't have anything against geothermal or hydro though. nuclear does seem to be the best bet
>>78845142
good, it's also pretty easy to make propane, hexane etc if you have enough energy, you can even pull the carbon from the air
the only reason I can think of for them not pushing Thorium 50 years ago, was the oil industry lobby, which would see demand drop significantly
>>78847155
>>78847155
>batteries, generators in wind turbines and solar cells depend on rare earth metals, which are a finite resource. how then are they renewable?
The methods of extraction and the materials used are not renewable, but the energy produced is renewable. They also don't require a huge amount of upkeep/maintenance although this does depend on the areas in which they are based.
As an example, out here I use solar panels as my source of energy, and the amount it generates is enough to completely power my home (I use natural gas for my cooker, but the air conditioning and everything else is powered by solar), I even get money back from the utility company here as the panels generate more energy than I can consume.
It certainly makes more sense in hotter, more temperate regions though, as there's not much in the way of extreme weather than can damage the panels or anything like that.
Even on a small level, such as individual households making the swap, it can be a huge benefit not only for the environment, but also economically it makes sense.
>>78848601
>They also don't require a huge amount of upkeep/maintenance although this does depend on the areas in which they are based.
wind turbines need replacing every ten years
do you need more than just your roof space?
>>78848601
that's the point though, by the time you made your methods of extraction renewable, to extract the minerals needed for renewable energy, you are so far behind countries that simply extract oil
>>78847482
this is the main reason i have heard too, it sounds conspiracy tier to normies, but such is the nature of power
if you sherlock it; the oil industry had the power, they had the motive, they had the channels, so I would deduce that they did it. That is my murder mystery analysis
>>78844321
I don't know about you taking a section back, but sorry UK, a sovereign newfoundland/ nova scotia/ prince edward and new brunswick would be sooo much richer. Imagine a sovereign nation right there? it would be a perfect fuckin spot for import export from europe, and for banking
Vancouver too, but it is already sufficiently taken over that that would be impossible. A billionaire could turn the aformentioned regions into a sovereign nation for sure.
>>78816237
OP here.
Thanks guys
I'm leaving work now and won't be able to reply
good thread though
you've brought great honoru to your famiry
>>78850725
>wind turbines need replacing every ten years
I was talking more about solar panels - but as new technology comes along, we'll hopefully come up with newer, more efficient designs for turbines, etc.
>do you need more than just your roof space?
I live on a fairly large plot of land, so I just have panels on the back of the roof of an outbuilding as well as a few that aren't mounted on the roof but are around the back of the same building where things like the gas tanks and air con units are, so they're out of sight.
They don't take up a lot of space, and were fairly reasonably priced to install, and out here where it's always sunny, it'll hopefully take less time to give a return on investment.
>>78850914
>that's the point though, by the time you made your methods of extraction renewable, to extract the minerals needed for renewable energy, you are so far behind countries that simply extract oil
I realize, but that's why it's perhaps better to encourage it on a smaller scale, and then try to coax the industrial producers into making the switch over a much longer timeframe.
Realistically though, there's nothing stopping newly developed homes from using solar, or stopping consumers from making the switch to electric cars (which incidentally are more fuel efficient than a lot of petrol/diesel cars on the roads are now, particularly if they're older models of gas cars).
>>78816237
Hydrolic fracturing and nitrogen flooding are the way of the future of oil extraction.
The only conceivable means of it damaging the water supply is if the extraction crew are retards about it.
>>78850914
>newfoundland
well, I don't really know the area, is that the east coast area of canada? isn't it already owned?
>>78852867
>we'll hopefully come up with newer, more efficient designs for turbines, etc
that's not the only problem with them, you might get sunlight everyday, but not at night(I would assume), and it's not always windy either. so you need some sort of gas turbine backup(batteries aren't enough for any large scale use), this backup might be coming on and offline every few minutes in some circumstances, and this leads to more CO2 that if it was just operating constantly
>electric cars (which incidentally are more fuel efficient than a lot of petrol/diesel cars
they don't use fuel, they store a charge
This is one of the few things liberals are almost correct about. Fuck fracking.
>>78816237
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DElBMdy3WUc
>>78816237
Fracking is fucking terrible, it takes mental gymnastics the likes of flatearthers to think it's not problematic.
Also it's the fossil fuel equivalent of us fiending for wee bits of drugs out of the carpet. To me it seems to be a sign of desperation when it comes to energy.
>>78853809
fuck old people and poor people, let them choose between starving and freezing to death, and fucking evil businesses
>>78854491
>Also it's the fossil fuel equivalent of us fiending for wee bits of drugs out of the carpet. To me it seems to be a sign of desperation when it comes to energy.
and yet it has turned your country from a net importer to a net exporter of energy
brb, checking my carpets for drugs
>>78853633
Newfoundland has a population of 530,000. It's perfect for the taking.
>>78854679
Lol.. you raise a good point, but I'm saying it's a temporary boon.. and trust me I've smoked some pretty big bowls with weed I picked out of the carpet.. but that doesn't mean I'll necessarily get to smoke tomorrow.
>>78854491
the more we use fracking and new tchiniques the better we get which leads to more potable water and less deaths from climate which is an all time low since 1920's
>>78816237
Pic 2
This is reality
>>78855402
what I want to know about the water is:
is fracking a problem if the community has a municipal water source? it isn't right? It's not like the natural gas/ oil is "bad" for purifying water, or poses some sort of problem for purifying water, right?
>>78854724
>Newfoundland
doesn't look too bad
is there any industry apart from fishing?
>>78854940
>a temporary boon
is there anything permanent?
>trust my opinion, I smoke weed, wooo blaaaze it!!
>>78853633
Again, as i've already said, given the current state of turbine tech, they're not at all suitable for use on a small scale. Solar, on the other hand, is perfectly fine for such a purpose.
>electric cars (which incidentally are more fuel efficient than a lot of petrol/diesel cars
>they don't use fuel, they store a charge
I realize, lad - but what I meant to say is that the cost per mile of an electric car is much better than that of a petrol/diesel car, I still consider this to be fuel efficiency, despite it being electric powered.
>>78855769
I think it can only be a problem for wells, and there should be no way for gas or other hydrocarbons to penetrate piping
>>78855902
>the cost per mile of an electric car is much better than that of a petrol/diesel car
isn't that because you get to pay less tax? hardly seems a fair comparison
>>78855769
>>78855769
it could if they absolutely fucked things up, if they do it right which mean fill in the void at the end of the project space its totally legit, even compared to 4 years ago there are new advances in fundemental fracking procedures, the usa can become the leading exporter of energy with fracking, nuclear is best but is a harder sell bc of the bs leftists freaking out
>>78855902
nope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17xh_VRrnMU
>>78817278
GET THE FUCK OUT
leave the north alone
>>78855826
I don't think so, but what do you expect, since it's part of Canada?
That's what I'm saying; if it was a sovereign nation, the possibilities would be endless. Especially because of it's location. If there is an area for drilling offshore (again; Canada wouldn't do that anyway) we would be able to convert it to a prosperous nation fairly quickly kind of how Norway has reinvested it's oil into industry, if not it would have to be a refueling station for import export tankers on their way from Europe to Americas and vice versa, and again, an offshore banking nation for the east coast. Would Canada stop us from seceding? Trudeau? No. Would Canada and the US stop us from being an offshore banking/ tax shelter? Seeing as it would be a "protectorate" of the U.K., Canada, but in reality the US, it would be too much political blundering to try to fuck with our "new nations socioeconomic culture" for any of those 3 bodies
We would get rich, like a Monaco, a Switzerland, etc, and be able to provide citizens with the means to independence (i.e. We could survive on our own if needed) so it would be impossible for the larger nations to leverage our economy against us with sanctions, and that's what it comes down to
They wouldn't be able to economically bully us because we could survive anyway, and that's the only way an independent nation CAN be economically bullied.
>>78816502
wut game plox
>>78856129
I mean in a perfect world; yes we would use fracking procedures that are sustainable, and then we would create a small percentage tax on all energy production that dedicates the money to nuclear research and building projects, to make us independent of oil
this is not a perfect world, so I would reject taxes like that, because they would obviously be used for corrupt means
many voters believe we live in a perfect world, a perfect world that only needs them to vote for the right things
>>78856362
oh waaa what are you going to do with those areas?
especially when countries become oil independent?
you'd have waisted your chance to cash out on one of your resources. and for what? you can't even notice a difference on the surface anyway. Plus fracking leaves some FUGGIN SICK caves. Think about that for a second
you could start a company that utilizes the caverns left over by fracking to make nuclear shelters, hotels, etc
go ahead, take my idea, it would be cool to see it happen
>>78856054
No, this is ignoring govt. subsidies/tax write offs to owners, just looking at the basic math of it.
https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf
>>78856207
>electric cars are coal powered cars
Not if you don't use fossil fuels to obtain that energy, lad.
This video hasn't negated from my point, all it does is play down the benefits of using an electric powered car. PragerU posts all kinds of shit videos like this which are essentially strawmans trying to trick neocons like yourself into falling for it.
You may have your reasons for not liking electric cars, but there's absolutely no way that you can argue that they're more polluting than the alternatives.
>>78855902
Solar is doing a lot
>>78857292
carp fortress
>>78857474
>You may have your reasons for not liking electric cars, but there's absolutely no way that you can argue that they're more polluting than the alternatives.
thats not the arguement the arguement is that electric vehicles are not as long lasting(battery) and not as energy dense as fossil fuels. fossil fuels are the greater good and are the only thing that produce the required energy needed. solar and batter and wind are ineffective and only survive bc of tax cuts where as oil went from nothing to industry leader in 2 years
>>78857409
i wouldnt support any kind of tax cuts for energy, i beleive that affordable energy is a life and death matter and that fossil fuels ahve lead to the rise in more potable water medicine and longer life span, therefor we need to use more, bc they are the greater good vs anything else
>>78855826
>>78856695
keep in mind. smaller nations have been formed for dumber reasons to exist
pic related is the principality of sealand, a sovereign nation
before I embark on this quest, of course, I have to first start my religion that I have been working on. More of an ideology really, but called a religion in order to exploit english common law
by the way, I'm jealous of your freedom boner. rule britannia! you guys have opened the door for almost any geopolitical changes to happen! this is part of what I am talking about with this. Anything is possible. stay strong Brits
>>78857679
KEK even with all the subsidy solar/wind is a pos
>>78857679
>33% Coal
>tfw Hillary openly said she would end coal
>>78857679
2014 for comparison
>>78856695
kek m8, it all sounds super, but a little pie in thesky
why do tankers need to refuel there? don't they have tanks big enough to take them from A to B?
seceding? we'd need a majority to vote for it, and there is every chance canada would block us for being white males
do they have submarine cable internet? required for banking I would have thought, and shitposting
>it would be impossible for the larger nations to leverage our economy against us with sanctions
like they do russia? and they have fucking nukes
>>78857474
well, where I live, gas(natural gas) is 1/3rd the price of electricity, so wouldn't LPG be cheaper?
that graph shows gas prices, but doesn't mention how much tax is included
> strawmans trying to trick neocons
aha, the ecoliberal is revealed
>>78858018
By the way, look at this Trump comic
Liberals are beyond saving at this point; you can't even fuckin tell what they are trying to say with their comics at this point
>diggerstripper and scar co
>making the coal miners dumb as fuck
god liberal elitism is so fuckin annoying and ignorant to how americans really live
>everyone can just be a barista! or drive for uber! check out this coffee commune my friends and I created using the affirmative action from my lesbian muslim black friend!
>>78857679
holy shit!! 0.6 GORILLION?
>>78857679
looking at it on a national level hardly counts, that's more the fault of the US government for not investing in renewables further.
The fact of the matter is that if they wanted to, the US could be 100% reliant on renewable energy by 2050-2060.
>>78857922
>thats not the arguement the arguement is that electric vehicles are not as long lasting(battery) and not as energy dense as fossil fuels. fossil fuels are the greater good and are the only thing that produce the required energy needed. solar and batter and wind are ineffective and only survive bc of tax cuts whereas oil went from nothing to industry leader in 2 years
Materials used in nuclear fission are MUCH more energy dense than fossil fuels, and they don't emit any harmful pollutants. While renewable energy would be the "endgame", there's certainly nothing wrong with the US transitioning to a higher dependency on nuclear as opposed to fossil fuels.
And the US only relies so heavily on oil because of trade agreements and lobbying by pro-fossil fuel groups, the same people that lie to investors and governments about the realities of climate change so as not to harm their own interests, yet /pol/ seems to turn a blind eye to this.
The system is entirely driven by profit, the US is a net exporter of oil, and produces more oil annually than it actually consumes, yet it still imports it from elsewhere and sells its own locally extracted oil - the reason for this is because companies make more money doing it this way.
Oil isn't good for the people, only the corporations, lad - I hate to say it, but liberals are right on this one, and any old school conservative would share the same opinion.
Dumb question, but is fracking even necessary? As I take it the whole debate started with pretty sound arguments, where companies went to work in nature preservats, geologically instable region and near human settlements with (at the time) practically no idea of what would actually happen and what the long term consequences would be.
After scientists voiced their opinions on this, of course the idiots jumped on the bandwagon, but let me ask this instead: Couldn't fracking be actually researched first before we do it in a big scale.
This >muh early adopters is some pretty big cancer shit.
Most fracking occurs at 5000 feet, at the same depth as the water table in many regions because the cores from the strata almost always come up wet.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.est.5b01228?journalCode=esthag
>>78858852
>And the US only relies so heavily on oil because of trade agreements and lobbying by pro-fossil fuel groups
no dude its bc it is the most resourceful almost all modern medicine are made possible bc of petroleum products not to mention healthcre bc of the use of plastics/polymers.
>Oil isn't good for the people, only the corporations, lad - I hate to say it, but liberals are right on this one, and any old school conservative would share the same opinion.
i disagree with you its deen a decade and solar adn wind still suck.oil tookover in two years. fossil fuels leads to longer life.and if you domt believe me then what about the elderly who die in uk and spain bc they cant afford to heat their homes after the govs put taxes on coal "to savve the environmet"
>>78857928
yeah, I know about Sealand, don't they have some rich backers though?
why did they call it a principality and not a kingdom?
>I have to first start my religion that I have been working on. More of an ideology really, but called a religion in order to exploit english common law
it's just common law as far I as I understand, there is no foreign version, just us and the anglosphere, the same rules. cause no harm, loss or fraud
I was thinking the other day about forming a religion, but one based on reality and family
>by the way, I'm jealous of your freedom boner. rule britannia! you guys have opened the door for almost any geopolitical changes to happen! this is part of what I am talking about with this. Anything is possible. stay strong Brits
thanks bro, just got blocked on farcebook off a guy I've known 10 years, because he's a butthurt scott who is still arguing about the case for remain, after we have already voted. poor guy, he sounded really angry. no arguments of course, just wanted to put the case for ignoring the will of the people, and disparage anyone who didn't agree with him
hope we put some kind of anglosphere loose alliance together, and go back to our principles of natural inalienable rights. MAGA
>>78859080
Here is it in fundamental terms.
Barrels of oil produced = (permeability * area * pressure difference)/(viscosity*length)
Shale has permeability on the order of micro to nanodarcies. By comparison, sandstone at a minimum has about 400-500 millidarcies of permeability and can go 1, 2, darcies, sometimes even higher.
By increasing permeability by even 100 times you literally increase production 100-fold without even considering the increase in area. So yes, it sort of is necessary to get all the tight oil.
>>78858608
That's true, unless we were able to reduce the cost of fuels through the low population size, cans of like how oil nations are all rich as fuck per person because they have nearly no taxes
We would need a majority of votes, I don't think anything else matters. I'm pretty sure it's called "postcolonial sovereignty disposition" but basically any geographical area can vote for its' sovereignty under international law
I would guess it wouldn't be hard to get the submarine Internet from the cables that go to the east coast
Biggest industry would have to be banking. But especially in these economic times, many many people would want to keep their money in a low tax gold (or other) backed currency, to prevent the loss of their wealth in the event of a crash
I think Newfoundland would be great, Nova Scotia might be easier because they were once independent and they basically defaulted on their loans and went bankrupt, then had a vote and voted themselves into Canada (instead of the U.K. Or independent) but they have nearly a million people.
Maybe we could eventually incorporate both, as I state above, kind of a new isle based nation
>>78859296
>Not knowing about interstitial water
>Not knowing that all that water is brine
>>78858635
KEK.they are just trapped in uneducated "smarts"
>black science man agrees with me you must be a rascist!
im really suprised repubs havent touched energy use except to say hilary is awitch which is true but its not makingthe case for energy.
if you havent you should check out alex epstein he btfo of leftists on energy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DElBMdy3WUc
>>78816237
curse those elusive 'fracking chemicals'
>>78858635
>>everyone can just be a barista! or drive for uber! check out this coffee commune my friends and I created using the affirmative action from my lesbian muslim black friend!
ooh jaaa, I simply MUUST have my pumpkin spiced chai latte on the way to my journalism class!
we just had a historic vote in the UK, I think the conservative party were about 50:50 leave to stay, and labor were 95:5 stay, yet most of the labor strongholds voted to leave, and many of the conservative ones. the politicians are horrendously out of touch, and they still don't seem to realize it.
same as the way your reps and dems don't seem to have a clue what the people actually want anymore
interesting times
>>78859489
That's not what I meant. What I mean is the practice itself isn't well researched (or at the very least, it wasn't when it was first started). After all, that's how the whole debate started.
Why couldn't it be run as a model in one place first to research the dangers and what not and then adopt it wide scale instead of rushing to adopting first without understanding what might possibly be a risk.
>>78816237
>literal fire water
surely people are not this retarded.. i'd be suing their fucking balls off
>>78859309
Don't get me wrong, fossil fuels are great and certainly revolutionized human civilization and productivity, and they still have their place as far as medical advances go, but that's not to say that they're not dated and inefficient as a fuel source, at least in the quantities that they're currently used at. All i'm advocating for is a cut back on usage of fuels in favor of cleaner, more viable alternatives.
>i disagree with you its deen a decade and solar adn wind still suck.oil tookover in two years. fossil fuels leads to longer life.and if you domt believe me then what about the elderly who die in uk and spain bc they cant afford to heat their homes after the govs put taxes on coal "to savve the environmet"
The odds are stacked against renewables, there are plenty of examples of them being hugely beneficial on a smaller scale - i.e. powering smaller towns or communities, particularly in Europe.
As for this coal tax deaths thing, this is the first that i've heard about it, but it boils down more to poor oversight by governments, and doesn't mean that renewables are at all to blame.
If you want to look at the deaths caused by fossil fuels on the other hand, look no further than deaths of coal miners or workers at refineries due to lung complications from prolonged exposure to the fumes released in the refinement process, or look at the impact that high levels of pollution is having on the average weight at birth and number of defects of newborn babies in China.
>>78857292
Dwarf McMansion
>>78859080
it's necessary unless you want america to be beholden to muslims forever
is that what you want?
>>78859455
>it's just common law as far I as I understand, there is no foreign version, just us and the anglosphere, the same rules. cause no harm, loss or fraud I was thinking the other day about forming a religion, but one based on reality and family
that will be part of my religious law; well, part of the religious law will be voluntary participation in intelligence incentivization when it comes to family matters i.e. you can voluntarily involve yourself in a taxation system that (alright it boils down to you can pay so that the religion can doll out money to familys that are highly intelligent and have a bunch of babies to basically self eugenics the gene pool)
>thanks bro, just got blocked on farcebook off a guy I've known 10 years, because he's a butthurt scott who is still arguing about the case for remain, after we have already voted. poor guy, he sounded really angry. no arguments of course, just wanted to put the case for ignoring the will of the people, and disparage anyone who didn't agree with him hope we put some kind of anglosphere loose alliance together, and go back to our principles of natural inalienable rights. MAGA
this commie I work with was laughing about how "Scotts were throwing golf balls with swastikas at trump when he was in scotland" so I think you guys should get scotland to fuckin leave so they can be beholden to germany. See how they like having their freedoms dolled out by brussels. They're making you guys look bad.
>>78859983
whats the deal on the ground over in bongland?
is ukip gong to gain more traction since our boy nige finally won after 25 years? i honestly dont trust uk conservatives to do it right. and interestingly just like bush and john carry belonging to the same skull and bones club cameron and the beach boys blonde hair dude brandon? were in the same gentlemens private club
>>78816237
>it's just a meme mom!
>>78860240
Not forever, surely 5-10 years is enough to thoroughly research everything around it and prove that it's a safe practice.
>>78860060
It has been run as a model. It's called Hubbert and Willis 1957. There have been thousands of papers published since.
You are correct though, they did do it without running a model...in 1947. Today there are tons of models. If you're curious check out the CDM-PKN model, it's one of the more popular ones.
>>78860455
Gotcha
But it goes to show how a little foresight would have prevented this meaningless debate over nothing and retarded liberals standing in the way of progress.
>>78860240
Horsey hates white people so much
>>78860075
you live in the middle of nowhere, and you're fucking poor
some oil company comes along and says "all your boys can make over 100,000 bucks a year"
you do it
some old ladies who don't do shit and have no skin in the game complain on the news
this is what you are tlaking about.
>>78859983
in my view it's basically like the free market, but of politicians, being highly regulated, to the point where they've throttled populism, until Trump came alone
>>78859765
i'm surprised too, but I would expect that trump will play the energy card especially harshly when strongly energy producing states are voting
>>78860675
The problem is that people don't realize how old the practice is. The only difference in the past 20 years are better crosslinkers for the frac fluid and the use of horizontal wells.
Hydraulic fracturing has been around for 59 years. Torpedo fracturing has been around since 1864. Acidizing (literally injecting HCl into rock formations) has been going on since the late 19th century.
>>78860873
*It's actually been around for 69 years, type. What a good anniversary.
>>78858852
>that's more the fault of the US government for not investing in renewables further
it isn't the governments role to invest in things, it's the peoples role to invest in what they want, and to make businesses to try and cater to what people want
>While renewable energy would be the "endgame", there's certainly nothing wrong with the US transitioning to a higher dependency on nuclear as opposed to fossil fuels.
I agree with you on nuclear, but you are still talking about "renewable" energy, when I have already told you that the rare earth metals used in the generators and panels are not renewable!
>And the US only relies so heavily on oil because of trade agreements and lobbying by pro-fossil fuel groups,
not true, it's because it's cheaper
wind power is much more expensive, as is solar, and neither are constant.
if wind and solar power was cheaper, wouldn't people just install their own?
you sound a little hypocritical also, did you say you cook on propane? do you have any idea how many kilawatt hours of electricity it would take to do your cooking if you went full electric? I suspect you've already worked out that your solar system can't supply enough power for you to cook on, OR YOU WOULDN'T HAVE GONE FOR PROPANE!!
>The system is entirely driven by profit
what incentive do you want to replace profit with?
do you yourself work for free?
>produces more oil annually than it actually consumes, yet it still imports it from elsewhere and sells its own locally extracted oil - the reason for this is because companies make more money doing it this way.
different grades of oil require different amounts of processing, and foreign lands have lower environmental restrictions, making it cheaper to refine dirty oil abroad and import "sweet" oil
>Oil isn't good for the people
it is the single biggest step we ever took in improving our quality of life, and productivity
do you know how long it would take 1 man with a pedal pump to do the work of one gallon?
>>78860167
>All i'm advocating for is a cut back on usage of fuels in favor of cleaner, more viable alternatives.
but that will lead to people dying
>s is the first that i've heard about it, but it boils down more to poor oversight by governments, and doesn't mean that renewables are at all to blame.
but they are bc they cannot sustain the energy we all require its impossible, and i would galdly support research into them i just beg that we dont remove the greater good which is fossil fuels in order to do a worse job, that is not competition
>If you want to look at the deaths caused by fossil fuels on the other hand, look no further than deaths of coal miners or workers at refineries due to lung complications from prolonged exposure to the fumes released in the refinement process, or look at the impact that high levels of pollution is having on the average weight at birth and number of defects of newborn babies in China.
china fucks everything by being sketchy so thats a bad example but i hear you, and would like to point that since the 1920 we have hade fewere people die due to climate becuase of the use of fossil fuels, no more starvation, lack of water,etc.
>>78860851
>i'm surprised too, but I would expect that trump will play the energy card especially harshly when strongly energy producing states are voting
hopefully he is saving it? i doubt though.
the day after the bp spill i wore a "go green" bp shirt and got to laugh all day from the butthurt, thinking about getting myself one of those "i love fossil fuels" shirt and wear it on earth day
>>78860703
I know, also, I always assumed horsey was a woman until I saw him
>apparent redneck who has a confederate tattoo is ordering a strawberry frappucino
does horsey live in a city and run into west virginians straight out the hollers or what?
>>78860403
I don't know if europe really has that long. plus, do we know if the problems aren't memes created by the saudis and other offshore oil producers, to prevent their monopoly being overthrown?
>>78825205
>impervious rock layers
>the pipe goes through every single 'impervious' layer
Hmmm...really makes u think
>>78861162
glad to see someone else take the time go point for point, i got lazy. i completely agree with you
>>78816237
>Forgive me for being on my phone but I need some memes to crush my mothers opposition to it; this all started when I claimed to her that fracking problems are memes/ propaganda created by Saudi types and off shore drilling conglomerates to discourage us from doing it because it is too easily decentralized and privatized into smallish businesses for them to have a grip on it
This graph is bullshit. Fracking is done at 8000 feet and below. No where near ground water.
>>78816237
close. The anti fracking movement was actually funded by the Russian national oil company.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2015/03/12/russians-financed-the-u-s-anti-fracking-movement-oil-tycoon/#5b5cda6498e2
I'm from Oklahoma.
It's a well-established fact here that fracking is linked to earthquakes and the only "propaganda" is that oil representatives are trying to deny the link.
It's idiotic to continue a practice that's literally making the earth below our feet unstable. No amount of economic benefit is going to outweigh plummeting property values in north OKC or the serious damage that we are risking if a major earthquake hits.
>>78817125
>They all get checks from it, but my grandmother's water in particular tastes terrible. leave it out for a few minutes and you see the rainbow shit on top. Those vids of people lighting their faucets on fire? Iv'e seen that in person.
You are a lying sack of shit just like 'those vids' of people lighting their faucets on fire.
That only happened because the filmmakers rigged the tap to ignite.
>>78861361
its almost like its the name of a rock layer
>>78861398
It is bullshit, that's why I chose it
>>78861194
earth day is my birthday
>>78861162
liberals care more about penguins covered in oil than dead humans
they think we can just hold hands around the world and sing kumbaya
but the only replacement possible is nuclear, which should be exploited, and the fact that liberals are against it leads me to believe that they truly want to cripple successful countries purposefully
you can set the water on fire coming out of the taps here in my region of Texas.
video here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LBjSXWQRV8
>>78831152
>Solar energy has bigger carbon footprint than nuclear power.
Somewhere, Kek is smiling.
>>78861714
>Oklahoma
>Not strip mining and destroying that shithole patch of dirt for any valuable resources
How about you move to somewhere that isn't miserable?
>>78816237
Reminds me Battlestar Galactica
>fracking cylons
>Dallas-Ft. Worth is on a minor fault line
>thousands of fracking explosions are made on the fault line
>DFW now has more earthquakes
really makes you think...
>>78832898
>Thorium truthers
Ugh. I'm all for research and I agree it's been stifled, but the Thorium evangelists are literally the worst.
>>78816237
Without fracking, the US is dependent on the middle east. Fuck the environment.
>>78862217
There's not a single relevant rebuttal in that post. Its a Huffington Post-tier response and you should be ashamed of it.
Oklahoma is a shitty state, but it's still my home and it's dumb as shit to just disregard problems in it because they don't fit your narrative.
>>78862511
No dude I've read into nuclear physics it's hella possible bro trust me
>>78862571
This is another thing. Why don't people care about this
Also
How come liberals were all
>BUSH AND THE SAUDIS
And now Clinton is all Saudi funded and they don't even fuckin care at all? They literally ignore it??
Why???
??
>>78859578
>how oil nations are all rich as fuck per person because they have nearly no taxes
I thought that was because they had HUGE reserves of a valuable commodity just gushing out of the ground?
>basically any geographical area can vote for its' sovereignty under international law
is there any farmland? or is it just fishing? and maybe some hunting?
how cold does it get in winter?
are storms a problem?
like I say, it sounds great, but unlikely
>>78860060
>What I mean is the practice itself isn't well researched
it's been going on since the 50s
>>78860167
>more viable alternatives.
except oil, coal and gas are MUCH cheaper, as in orders of magnitutde cheaper than the alternatives(apart from nuclear which has a terrible reputation), if they weren't, people would be building their own, without the need for subsidies
we've had windmills for far longer than fossil fuels
>>78860167
>The odds are stacked against renewables, there are plenty of examples of them being hugely beneficial on a smaller scale - i.e. powering smaller towns or communities, particularly in Europe.
stacked because of reality, if they worked, there would be no need to incentivize them, and demonize coal etc
>the impact that high levels of pollution is having on the average weight at birth and number of defects of newborn babies in China.
there are many other pollutants in chiyna, you can't blame it all on fossilfuels
>>78860240
>eugenics
sounds good
>should get scotland to fuckin leave
they can't.
1)EU already said no part of a leaving state may remain
2)they get more spent on them than they pay us
3)Spain will veto to stop catalonia(or basque maybe, am alittle druink) doing the same
4)they will be back of the queue when they ask to rejoin, and why would the EU want a few million scroungers with their hands out?
and finally, they already had their chance to leave and voted to stay
>>78862836
>No dude I've read into nuclear physics it's hella possible bro trust me
that's why I say I'm all for research
I believe it's possible. Is it economical? We won't know without research.
But the "Thorium Thorium Thorium rah rah rah" crowd pushes unrealistic expectations of nuclear power and makes us look like cold fusion nutcases.
>>78862767
Are the additional tiny earthquakes worth being independent from the Saudis?
Cause you guys don't have shit for earthquakes. What are they? All tiny localized less than 5 on the Richter scale? Less? You guys can't even feel most of the earthquakes can you?
I think that we can leave all this fracking bullshit be, really. We're rendering fossil fuels more and more obsolete by the day with technological advancement.
>>78861162
>it isn't the .... what people want
While I agree that the government shouldn't have any kind of involvement in these matters, this is far from the reality, where they actually do.
Bear in mind that less government oversight would lead to a freer market which would likely mean that renewables would probably still be researched and pushed as a new method of energy generation anyway, as companies would turn to it as a new form of competition to try and make their brand more appealing.
The only reason why we haven't seen a larger shift towards these energy sources is because large companies like Exxon, BP, Shell, etc. don't have a monopoly on them because they didn't take the time to invest in their own r&d, and now they're losing out.
>I have already told you .. are not renewable!
very funny, m8 - renewable energy doesn't refer to the method of extraction, but the source of the energy, like the sun and the wind, these are infinite (relatively) and can't be exhausted. There are more than enough materials required to produce wind turbines and solar panels in existence, but there aren't enough fossil fuels to sustain us for very much longer.
>not true, it's because it's cheaper
It's only cheaper in the short run, renewables pay for themselves over time.
This is another reason why energy companies hate them, because once they're in place, it puts a lot of people out of business as people are no longer reliant on the coal/oil industry to power their homes.
Also, I use natural gas to power my stove only because I prefer cooking with it as it takes less time to heat up, etc. and because I have a professional grade oven. Cooking with gas doesn't make me a hypocrite, because I don't use solar panels because of muh environment, I use them because it saves me money.
>what incentive...?
There's still profit in renewables, and there could be even more with a little r&d.
>... single biggest step ...
I'm not denying that.
>>78861194
>but that will lead to people dying
So will the alternative.
>but they are bc they cannot sustain the energy we all require its impossible, and i would galdly support research into them i just beg that we dont remove the greater good which is fossil fuels in order to do a worse job, that is not competition
Obviously i'm not saying that we should switch to an inferior alternative, but the bottom line is that in a lot of applications, they're not inferior at all.
>china fucks everything by being sketchy so thats a bad example but i hear you, and would like to point that since the 1920 we have hade fewere people die due to climate becuase of the use of fossil fuels, no more starvation, lack of water,etc.
Let's tackle 1 problem at a time, shall we? food & water shortages don't boil down to a lack of resources, simply a misallocation of them.
>>78860329
I hope so mate, clearly a majority of the labor voters are against their party now, and about half the conservatives
it sounds like the cons only got in because they promised this referendum, ukip should pick up a lot of votes for that, after the way pigface cameron decided to resign without triggering article 50, against his pledge to abide by the peoples vote
I fear jo cox might not be the only MP to be killed by a loonie of one kind or another, the left and the right are super upset
>>78860851
>basically like the free market, but of politicians
I disagree, more like a cartel of pols in my opinion. they have thrrottled populism though
>>78860873
>Torpedo fracturing has been around since 1864. Acidizing (literally injecting HCl into rock formations) has been going on since the late 19th century.
interesting
>>78861194
>hopefully he is saving it?
he's already had a go at killary over her "putting the miners out of business" comments, and spoke at some energyu conference where he stated he would make america energy independent, and cut reliance on foreign oil from unfriendly states. he doesn't want your money going to those places
>>78861285
>memes created by the saudis and other offshore oil producers, to prevent their monopoly being overthrown
highly possible
>>78861365
thanks bro, I'm very generous with the (you)s
>>78861528
heh
>>78861714
what happened in 2012? it should be about 88-94 to make a nice straight line trend.
it really went from 2 (+18) 20 (+24) 44 (+24) 68?
was any better equipment installed? was there a general increase in earthquakes? I seem to remember reading about "the ring of fire" becoming more active. Heard of that?
not saying it's bullshit, but that it might be scaremongering
how big is a 3 scale earthquake anyway?
>>78862864
>except oil, coal and gas are MUCH cheaper, as in orders of magnitutde cheaper than the alternatives(apart from nuclear which has a terrible reputation), if they weren't, people would be building their own, without the need for subsidies
>we've had windmills for far longer than fossil fuels
Measuring the cost of something like a solar panel is hard to do because it can continue providing energy indefinitely, although you're right, much of the appeal of fossil fuels is due to their availability and low cost, however what you need to realize is that a lot of the demonizing of renewables and nuclear comes from disinformation and fear mongering on the part of pro-fossil fuel lobbying groups and oil companies.
>stacked because of reality, if they worked, there would be no need to incentivize them, and demonize coal etc
Sometimes people need a little guidance to help them differentiate between what is truly best for them, just like how governments spend money on anti-smoking campaigns.
>there are many other pollutants in chiyna, you can't blame it all on fossilfuels
Yes, but they all have the same root cause, which is fossil fuels.
>>78863047
We can feel the 3.0 and higher. We get several 5+ annually now and that number is growing exponentially each year. Oklahoma, specifically the Oklahoma City area, rests on a major fault line.
All of these "little quakes" that you're disregarding are indicators of a much more serious problem. What we're doing right now is taking a massive land area held in place by frictional forces and shoving oil-based lubricants into the ground.
Who the fuck thinks that's a good idea?
>>78861714
hey, this is kind of interesting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale
" The Richter scale was succeeded in the 1970s by the moment magnitude scale. This is now the scale used by the United States Geological Survey to estimate magnitudes for all modern large earthquakes"
yet they quote the richter scale?
"Richter established a magnitude 0 event to be an earthquake that would show a maximum, combined horizontal displacement of 1.0 µm (0.00004 in.) on a seismogram recorded with a Wood-Anderson torsion seismograph 100 km (62 mi.) from the earthquake epicenter. That fixed measure was chosen to avoid negative values for magnitude, given that the slightest earthquakes that could be recorded and located at the time were around magnitude 3.0."
the smallest earthquake they could measure was a 3?
"Anything above 5 is classified as a risk by the USGS"
<2 - Microearthquakes, not felt, or felt rarely. Recorded by seismographs
2.0–2.9 - Felt slightly by some people. No damage to buildings.
3.0–3.9 - Often felt by people, but very rarely causes damage. Shaking of indoor objects can be noticeable.
wow, what a useless scaremongering bullshit graph you have there!
>>78865023
that's what I was saying
as a former commieofrnian, I know that we got hundreds of earthquakes a year, and you could only feel one or 2 per year.
>>78864282
I don't know. I would have to look into it.
My guess is that the initial spike in earthquakes was overrepresentative of the underlying trend. The fluids injected into the ground set off all of the initial movements and the plates began falling into place. After that the larger trend became more apparent.
Or it could be because a bunch of fracking wells moved during the years before and maybe they moved to more stable regions.
I doubt it has anything to do with the ring of fire or any other global trend though, since this event is specific to Oklahoma and other Midwest fracking regions.
>>78865458
how come there's no big earthquakes centralized in south dakota, where fracking is the largest industry?
are oklahomanders just so retarded that they can't frack correctly? there's absolutely zero regulation? what?
>>78865023
>>78865422
I don't understand your point. All of the quakes on that graph are greater than a magnitude 3. We had a 5.6 quake in Prague that caused over a million dollars in damage.
So you're saying "They're little quakes so they don't matter?" That's bullshit. We feel around a dozen earthquakes a year here now. Not little rumbles, full on shaking for a few seconds.
And unlike California, we do not have infrastructure that was built with the intention of withstanding earthquakes. Redesigning and refinishing our building to be earth-quake resistant would be a massive financial undertaking.
>>78861926
>liberals care more about penguins covered in oil than dead humans
>
>they think we can just hold hands around the world and sing kumbaya
kek, they don't give a shit about anything but their good boy points and social signalling
>>78862511
wow, what a great argument
>>78862836
>And now Clinton is all Saudi funded and they don't even fuckin care at all?
pretty funny isn't it, really shows up their double standards
>>78862959
it's already been proven to work back in the 50s, you dildo
> pushes unrealistic expectations of nuclear power
such as what? that it's 29million times more energy dense than oil?
>>78863553
>Shell, etc. don't have a monopoly
you mean they can't buy green soya fart powered turbine companies?
none of those companies has a monopoly on oil either
>There are more than enough materials required to produce wind turbines and solar panels in existence
rare earth metals are renewable? Lithium is renewable? we have inexhaustible supplies of them do we?
>It's only cheaper in the short run, renewables pay for themselves over time.
there are still maintenance costs and replacement costs, as I mentioned, wind turbines only last 10 years, solar panels have to be cleaned regularly and also wear out. they also both have a huge carbon footprint to pay back from day one. all the mining, transport, manufacturing
>gas ... hypocrite
yet here you are singing the praises of renewables, not for being cheaper, but seemingly because evil bigoil wants us all to stay hooked. hmmmm
>There's still profit in renewables
in america, wind is subsidized to the point where it is 274x as expensive per KWH
>I'm not denying that.
but you support us taking a step back into lower quality of life? affordable energy IS quality of life in many ways.
>>78863589
>food & water .. misallocation of them.
herpa derpa derp feeeee dthe wooorld. there are 7 billion hungry people who don't grow enough to eat, how is it our fault/responsibility? hippy utopian
>>78866184
*Speaking very slowly*
Because the ground under Oklahoma is full of small fault lines and the ground under South Dakota isn't.
>>78817125
>but life, uh, finds a way
I appreciate that reference.
>>78822712
Don't need hydro for Nucular
>>78818917
Canada why do you want US annexing so badly? Is Quebec really THAT bad?
>>78864343
>fear mongering on the part of pro-fossil fuel
is there any fear mongering from anti?
>Sometimes people need a little guidance ... anti-smoking
aaah, a godDAMN authoritarian who feels they have the right to tell other people what to do
scratch a liberal and you find an authoritarian
>they all have the same root cause, which is fossil fuels
chemical plants, agricultural chemicals, dye plants, factories, metal working etc etc
>>78864435
>Oklahoma, specifically the Oklahoma City area, rests on a major fault line.
wow, so it's not the kind of place prone to earthquakes? being ON A FUCKING FAULT LINE?
>shoving oil-based lubricants into the ground
you know they suck them back up? they are expensive chemicals. little tiny pocket caves that are left are not enough to cause you to slide into the sea, relax
>>78866261
the richter scale has been replaced since 1970
are you claiming that littel earthquakes cause bigger ones? what is the train of causality in that scenario?
>>78866625
*teleports behind you* "nothing personal, kid"
>>78867169
yes, see oklahoma guy, he is fully propagandized
>>78867291
*memes behind you*
>>78867169
The earthquakes are being caused by the fluid being pumped into the ground. The more fluid there is, the more frequent and more severe the earthquakes.
So as time goes on we have been seeing more severe earthquakes because there's more instability in the faults.
They do not suck them back up. Look up the wastewater discharge in fracking. Your understanding of the process is incorrect. Additionally, fracking requires high-pressured fracturing of the bedrock that they're trying to extract petroleum from. So they fracture the bedrock then shove lubricants into it.
Yes, we are prone to earthquakes anyways. That doesn't change the fact that we only started getting them after fracking started making the ground unstable.
If that's not the case then what's your explanation for this trend? That it's all bullshit made up in a giant conspiracy to cover up liberals building underground earthquake machines?
>>78867291
I'm not propogandized. My major is based out of the college of geography. I'm informed, if anything the fact that you don't have any decent responses is convincing me that you don't understand what you're talking about.
>>78869210
>The earthquakes are being caused by the fluid being pumped into the ground
claim without proof rejected without proof
>They do not suck them back up
another claim without proof
>Yes, we are prone to earthquakes anyways. That doesn't change the fact that we only started getting them after fracking started
how can you be prone to something, yet not get any?
>>78869210
if fracking causes earthquakes how come we haven't had any? we use the technique in the eastern parts of the country
>>78869649
all good cept 3rd
>>78869649
>>78869649
Okay. I think you lack a fundamental understanding of how fracking works.
>They shoot water and chemicals into the ground
>They high pressure cracks the shale formation
>The gas goes up the pipe
>They retrieve what gas and wastewater they can
>They go home
They do not suck up all of the wastewater and chemicals. That's not a claim without proof. It's a description of how the process works. Look it up. You cannot retrieve all of the water you shoot into a layer of shale. It's not possible.
There's a difference between something being "without proof" and you just being too dumb and lazy to understand how fracking works.
>How can you be earthquake probe but not get any
We were getting earthquakes. We got them once or twice almost every year. Now we get hundreds. The issue is that the frequency and magnitude of those earthquakes increased in direct correlation to the fracking boom.
So once again. What's your alternative explanation for the increase in earthquakes? Because the trend is pretty clear.
>>78870007
I don't know. Do you have thousands of micro fault lines in the eastern part of your country. If you don't then the answer is >>78866625 and if you do then maybe there's a difference in your process or in the makeup of your bedrock.
>>78870893
why would this be a problem?
especially if the water/ chemical mixture is of equal density?
>>78871216
You just have to google any of the following:
"Fracking wastewater"
"Fracking wastewater earthquakes"
"What happens to fracking wastewater"
and the answers are all right there. I strongly recommend it
>>78870893
you missed out the horizontal drilling machine and the actual fracking charge which is lowered down after the horizontal hole has been drilled and cased
>They do not suck up all of the wastewater and chemicals. That's not a claim without proof
so where is the proof?
you seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding of how proof works
what do you think the flowback water is? you know the chemicals they use are patented and expensive? they may not be able to recover them all, but buy putting a few volumes of water down they can recover a reasonable amount, they certainly cost more thana few volumes of water
>What's your alternative explanation for the increase in earthquakes?
I see, so explanation A MUST be true if no explanation B is presented?
you haven't even sourced your graphs, any fucker can make a graph
>The issue is that the frequency and magnitude of those earthquakes increased in direct correlation to the fracking boom.
perhaps you should have shown the number of fracks carried out per year also
D-
>>78871992
very poor show, at least give a brief argument
>>78816237
Oklahoma now has earthquakes thanks to fracking.
FUCKING OKLAHOMA
Leave. The Sooner State doesn't want you, chesapeake shill.
>>78872198
I get it now. You're just a troll. Good one, you got me.
>>78872464
wow, that's a nice get out. did you learn that one yourself?
do you really just expect people to take your word for things? and believe any graph presented to them?
unlike you, who takes everything they read at face value, I am skeptical of all claims until they can be proved
>>78863589
>So will the alternative.
the exact opposite is true, bc of wide spread fossil fuel use access to a greater life is acheived unless your a dumb ass like venezuela. fossil fuels lead to not dying from drought, not dying from the sun, not dying when there is a flood, being able to do more things bc of electricity and the list goes on, less people die today then ever before bc of fossil fuel use your entire existence and why its so easy is bc of fossil fuels.
>, but the bottom line is that in a lot of applications, they're not inferior at all.
how? they produce less energy, are not always on 10% of the time, require more maintenance, and all at a higher cost per Kwh. how is that more effective?
>Let's tackle 1 problem at a time, shall we? food & water shortages don't boil down to a lack of resources, simply a misallocation of them.
you are the one who brought up china as an example of "bad fossil fuel use" but thats like saying bc some people do things not to the best standard it means that the whole thing is wrong, which is not fair. china does things in such a way bc its cheap as fuck to ignore saftey concerns. but places like the usa pioneer coal use technology and coal mining is extremely safe now adays and after the projects are completed you can grow trees and stuff again. the same cannot be said for lithium mining
>>78863640
>and spoke at some energy conference where he stated he would make america energy independent, and cut reliance on foreign oil from unfriendly states
niceee
>its happening in the uk, ukip has opportunity to kick ass
i really hope so, but would advise to not let our guards down, from my experience here in the states every win comes with half of the shit you were fighting against in the first place. good luck and good jorb on brexit
>>78864435
couldnt it be that the tech for detecting this kind of thing has become better within the last 2 decades? oklahome is rife with EQ's and tornados since the dust bowl event 2early2tellimo
>>78816237
Looking for these?
>>78816237
>>78816237
#2
>>78816237
#2 part 2
>>78816237
#3
>>78816237
#3 part 2
>>78825417
"Envirotards" don't specifically oppose nuclear. They oppose cheap energy. Cheap energy enabled the industrial revolution. They want undo that progress because they're Rousseauian.
>>78873196
>>78873170
>>78873131
>>78873089
>>78872989
>>78872963
these are literally what I was looking for when I posted the thread but I am happy the thread went where it did.
