>taxation is theft
Still waiting to hear a reasonable alternative...
Donations
Do you support me getting shot?
bonds
>>78279624
What if the state owned everything and when people needed something, they could just ask the state for it?
Lack of a federal government sounds pretty good to me.
A reasonable alternative to what?
You don't need taxes or an equivalent to have a society
>>78279624
minimal taxation.
>>78279869
uh
a modern society on an international stage
yeah, you kinda do
still waiting /pol/
>>78279624
Nations without taxes have no military.
No military means conquest from a nation with taxes.
>>78280086
see>>78279712
If people want something, they will pay for it. There is no reason for taxation other than for people to line their pockets.
>>78280124
Tariffs pay for military.
>>78279624
There is no reasonable alternative. It's still theft though, Immorality does not equal impracticality.
Don't consider this my acceptance of your stupidity. If you were worth talking to you would shave already used your tiny head to deduce this nuance, but no, instead you post shit like this.
>>78280086
That is literally the most retarded thing I've read. And I volunteer at a writing school for autistic children.
Why do you need taxes?
>>78280178
uh
you realize maintaining modern systems and utilities with widespread quality of life equivalency and structure requires more than that right?
You realize we have needs beyond what we had in the 1700s right?
>>78280258
>There is no reasonable alternative.
Not taxing is a reasonable alternative.
libertarians can't cope with the fact that the majority of people democratically agreed to taxation
they and their anarchocapitalist brothers can't understand the social forces that led to modern government and believe magic will hold their ideals in place if only they could impose them through fascism
>>78280403
If people want something, they will pay for it. There is no reason for a government to steal funds and then use a small percentage to pay for some of what the people want.
>>78280258
This. Taxation is evil. Governments have done a lot of evil shit too, but you're going to get a government, whether you like it or not. With government comes taxes.
>>78279624
the free market will fix everything you filthy statist
>>78280455
I did not democratically agree to taxation, I do not receive any benefits from tax money, and I want none. Modern government is the problem.
Federalists are a cancer that killed this country, and the Socialist parasites feed upon it's carcass.
>>78280558
so uh,
when we breakdown our current system of reliably and regularly funded governance,
who pays to maintain the nukes and do they get a say in using them?
>>78279624
>taxation is theft
>what are intentions
Two identical actions can be different if they don't share the same intention. Anarchocucks are dreamers who are miles away from reality.
>>78280766
Tariffs, this is part of military spending.
>>78280766
>Taxes are necessary
>>for what?
>...
>WE MUST HAVE NUKES
Jesus Christ man. So we pay billions and trillions of dollars for nukes?
>>78279624
>alternative to taxes
Invading other countries and taking their oil and other resources.
>>78280344
ROADS! Right? That's it! Roads! :^)
>>78279820
its called communism and its impossible
Taxation is a fee for living in your country, idiots.
You pay for all the goods of the state you use, like wear and tear of roads, upkeep of parks you go to, paying the military that protects you.
The only immoral taxation is giving it as handouts to lazy niggers with 15 chillun and no job.
>>78281149
Just to get this out of the way: Those that benefit from the road will pay to build and maintain roads as they desire, there is no reason for government to be involved.
The best alternative is the government providing services that don't replace existing ones but give them competition.
Legal capitalism essentially.
>>78281149
I think that a lot of people would agree with the concept that a fuel tax where all of the tax is earmarked towards road infrastructure is cool. You use it, you pay for it. The problem is, that kind of shit doesn't happen. Most taxes get put into general funds and used for whatever pet program the politicians have going at the time.
Nations existed before taxes existed
Idiot!
>>78281234
Tariffs can pay for military without stealing from citizens, roads can be built and maintained without government, and parks(I assume you mean playgrounds or something, because woods do not need to be maintained) can be maintained by those interested in maintaining them.
>>78280344
How'd you get a janitor position here?
Taxation is rent.
>>78281632
>the nation belongs to the government
Top cuck.
>>78281539
Tariffs are taxes.
>>78281149
>What's a toll road
>>78281736
>being a degenerate wannabe-squatter
tippy top zozzle to you too, friend.
>>78281741
Tariffs are an optional agreement, taxes are not.
>>78281547
Now this is bantz
>>78279624
There isn't one but it is theft.
>>78281539
People are niggardly niggers who would never pay voluntarily. Some would, but then they would have to pay much more due to the lack of payment from others.
Imagine the issue with illegals not paying taxes, but amplified to the majority of the population.
>>78281878
They're still a tax. They're optional in the sense of "you do business with our country and pay the tariff, or you find another market." They still raise the price of goods that citizens are going to buy.
>>78279624
Less government means less taxes they need to spend.
>>78282067
Toll for entry to the park.
Don't want to pay for it, you don't get to use it.
>>78279624
Funny how all things that the taxes finance are solved more efficiently by private entities. Your question is kind of like asking for a reasonable alternative to burning all your money in a pit.
>>78282067
>People are niggardly niggers who would never pay voluntarily.
So the proper response is to steal from them, and you call others niggers?
>>78282069
Citizens don't have to buy foreign goods, champ.
>b-but American stuff is shit and Chinese stuff is cheap!
That's because we don't have tariffs.
>>78282189
That's not a tariff, at least not in the sense that this thread is talking about. I know, English is a whore of a language, but when you're talking about tariffs and taxation at the same time, you're talking about a tax on imports and/or exports.
im ok with some state taxes, bu the fed govt should get their revenue from tariffs. thats what the founding fathers inteded
>>78282401
If you want to keep the American lifestyle, we have to buy foreign oil. That is a non-negotiable in a laws of physics sort of thing.
Simple, we initiate the great die off. Once our population drops back to a couple hundred million we can live in primitive agrarian or hunter gatherer societies without a concept of money and where survival is the only focus, and there will be no taxes.
>People truely believe they need to government to organize their funds for them and then pay for roads and health care
You realize that the money you save from paying taxes would be more than enough to pay for those things privately right?
ALL PROPERTY IS THEFT, VYVYAN
>>78282610
It's still a perfect way to fund your park if you need it "maintained" and aren't a fan of robbery.
>>78282740
>If you want to keep the American lifestyle
You want to keep the current American lifestyle? We don't HAVE to buy foreign oil, we have our own, and tariffs do not mean you cannot buy foreign goods, it isn't like we need a 60% tax on all imports, we don't need that much money to maintain a military.
>>78282980
No, we need all of our roads to be shit and we need every hospital to operate like the VA.
>>78283032
No, we have to buy foreign oil to maintain our current lifestyle. Here are some questions that you should know at least the approximate answer to:
How much oil do we produce?
How much oil do we consume?
What is oil used for in the US?
Where does your food come from?
If you start answering those questions objectively, you'll see that we must have foreign oil. There is no way around it, at least given our current technology.
>>78283399
If you believe that, fine. People can still choose to buy foreign oil if they are opposed to using domestic oil for some reason.
>>78283557
This isn't about belief. This is about cold hard fact and the laws of physics. We consume more oil than we produce. Oil is a stored form of energy. Work is force times distance, and energy is the ability to do work. Oil moves shit. Oil gets shit done. Oil moves heavy equipment. Oil moves the trucks that put food in the supermarket. Oil does work. Get rid of foreign oil, and you will see shelves at the supermarket go bare.
>>78283836
>Get rid of foreign oil,
Are you clinically retarded? Can you not read?
>>78279758
>White
>Male
Yes
>>78283944
I'm not the one who fails to understand that we cannot produce enough to maintain our current lifestyle. Get that through your fucking skull. Last I checked we produced 9-10 million barrels per day, and we consumed around 19 million barrels per day. That deficit comes from foreign oil. We don't have the infrastructure in place to deal with the local production of necessities should that foreign oil go away. Get that through your fucking head. We are dependent on foreign oil in a people will be starving to death kind of way.
>>78284223
>we cannot produce
We can, statist. Your precious federal government doesn't let us.
I'm going to say it one last time, with big letters so you can see better TARIFFS DO NOT MEAN WE CANNOT IMPORT FOREIGN GOODS
FOREIGN OIL WILL NOT GO AWAY
YOU STUPID INBRED FAILED ABORTION
>>78284438
No, we cannot. Oil companies need oil prices to be over $100/bbl to justify current production rates, and consumers already cannot afford that. Double the production rates, which is what would be needed, and prices would need to be astronomical.
And fuck off for calling me a statist for going with hard fact, you dumb fucking nigger. Tariffs mean that the STATE is TAXING imports, and raising the cost for CITIZENS. We don't live in a magical unicorn land where shit appears for free. Resources are required to extract oil and tariffs raise the cost of foreign goods.
>>78285151
>No, we cannot
I'm done talking to middle schoolers.
>>78285226
Translation: You lack the knowledge or ability to argue with me.
>>78281783
Yeah let's make every road a toll road
We'd have to have a lot of toll booths though... maybe there's a way to just collect an average toll from everyone who's expected to use the roads, saving both time and money???
>>78279624
Is taxation theft? Well, that's at least partly a semantic issue. I'll address a slightly different question: Is taxation justified?
I think taxation is justified, and here's why. Property rights are inherently conventional. The idea that someone 'owns' something isn't some Fact of the Natural Order, it's just something humans have decided to agree upon. Don't get me wrong, that's a very good thing, because it's the foundation of our economy. But taxation is also a Very Good Idea, because taxation funds the state, and the state is what codifies and enforces property rights as well as many other kinds of human coöperation. Without the state, your 'property rights' would be a dead letter. We're back in the Hobbesian State of Nature where might makes right.
In short, both property rights and taxation are a good idea because everyone is better off that way. As a utilitarian, I regard making people better off as the goal of ethics. Other rules ("don't steal", "don't use force") are just fallible heuristics that tend to help us in achieving that goal.
>>78279624
In serbia we have a different sistem, taxes are only paid by companies om materials they buy and jobs they do,but regular people don't pay taxes but we have higher prices.So when you buy something from a store a part of it is given as tax by the store owner
>>78280403
>>78280086
>>78280766
Uh...uh..uh....uh...cuhck
>>78279869
Thats what some underage faggots really believe
>>78279624
Income tax is pretty openly theft, which is why an amendment was needed to make it constitutional.
Tariffs and land value taxes are the way to go.
>>78285595
I don't know man, that sounds too reasonable.
>>78281539
>woods do not need to be maintained
They do, actually.
>>78288107
Fuck property tax. That is a statement that you do not own your land, and are just renting it. Don't believe me? Don't pay your property tax, and see what happens.
>>78279624
Sad truth. We can't live without taking other people income under threat of violence. Because if you don't do this others will. It ultimate business, racket.
Taxation is NECESSARY theft, but it's theft nonetheless.
Taxation amounts to slavery more than theft. One part of the population profits from the labor of another part, and beats up/kills/imprisons members of that part that refuse. Slaves do sometimes see some indirect benefit as a result of their forced labor because sometimes massa will use the fruits of their labor to benefit the community as a whole, but in the end it's just extortion of powerless people by people with power. The enslaved would be better off if they were not enslaved and the enslavers would be worse off without slaves. The enslavers are the ones in power so they get their way.
Taxation/slavery is natural; humans and animals have been doing it for millions of years.
>>78280124
>barbarian chimps will come if you dpn't become a barbarian chimp yourself.
K'.
>>78280344
>anarchist will never have roads
>armies don't march for free and stronger more organized societies would take over/otherwise dominate anarchistic societies
>>78282980
>You realize that the money you save from paying taxes would be more than enough to pay for those things privately right?
>privately
The masses will would revolt against the rich and the rich wouldn't give money away just for charity. Anyways it always defaults to a organized society since the rich realize a stable society is their best bet to maintain their wealth and the poor will be happy to get the benefits of organized society.
Gas taxes are use taxes. You only pay a gas tax when you drive on public roads.
Money is then spent based on relative need of the road. Higher demand areas will require more maintenance and receive more services. This functions like a market.
Up until about 50 years ago most taxes were use taxes. The government had to sell war bonds to do stuff like fight wars, instead of just taking the money from people.
>>78279869
A firm tax base is the basis of a good government. Do you want to privatise the police, the lawmakers, the politicans and everything else?
>>78289616
Property taxes pay for police, fire and schools. Without these services, your property value goes to shit.
It is a maintenance cost, not rent.
>>78296072
My property value is already going to shit because of the niggers being funneled into my neighborhood because of our dear president B. Hussein Obama.
>>78280558
Yes there is. People are idiots who would spend all their money on trinkets. The average consumer is retarded, look at how popular the iPhone is when it's vastly inferior in every objective metric to an android.
Who will enforce copyright protection? Who will enforce banking regulations?
Anarchists are retarded.
>>78295321
It's sad, but also true.
>>78280988
Against a country like the Soviet Union which actually taxes an anarchist country would lose.
>>78296257
Nice deflection, but that's completely unrelated.
>>78296257
Local decisions are not the fault of Obama.
If you are getting bad services, then you leave. You establish your own community that follows your ethos.
>>78296633
This
The president can't even vote on laws. Why do people talk like he's a dictator with absolute authority over the state?
>>78296767
Shut up you stupid fucking gook. Ever hear of an executive order?
>>78296290
Not retarded, just ignorant.
They see a problem, but actively ignore the faults of their solution.
A true retard wouldn't even register the problem as existing, or would insist that the problem is actually an end all be all solution.
>>78297114
"Send all the niggers to Anon's house"
- Executive order 13731
Clearly instead of having the infrastructure provided by the state, we should let private entities construct nearly identical roads parallel to each other and let them compete on pricing and road quality
>>78297114
You mean the orders generally issued to federal agencies, which can be overturned by Congress and whose authority stems from existing laws or the Constitution? Which also makes up a very small number of the laws of the United States?
>>78279624
Voluntary payment for services. If the government provides a service of value, like say, law & order, people will pay for it.
>>78279624
taxation by municipality
federal taxation only by tariff
prove me wrong
>>78280344
I have a company who is usually working with other companies so I dont care much about tax I just cut it out with my own companies expenses.
But if you have a company and you are selling things to the public who cant cut their own taxes then its shitty.
MFW my accounted is making up bills because I spend my company money on my own food or other shit I shouldn't do.
Say what you want but I honestly dont see why so many people say accountants will be first replaced by virtual AI/robots.
How the fuck will the AI hide my expenses and profits so I pay less to the state ?
>>78298549
nobody countered?
>>78298549
>>78300659
come on folks
please, voice the problems with municipality taxes, and the only federal taxes being tariffs. I want to know the problems with that. All federal roads, bridges, etc, built with tariffs, all bridges that are inter-city and roads other than highways built with municipal taxation/ donations
I really want to know the problems with this system, especially because I will be implementing it when i overthrow a government and start a new free-state (the location is yet to be disclosed, look for it in the news in the next 10-15 years, i first have to spread the religion I have created to enough people)
>>78279624
your feelings < those we have power over you
>>78280124
The crusades were payed for with taxes?
>>78279820
I want 47 ferraris
>>78279869
Lmao cuz the articles of confederacy worked out so well
>>78295321
>paying for defense = barbarian chimps
I love Spanish logic
>>78280124
It costs a lot less to defend than it does to attack. I mean, the USA lost Vietnam and Iraq, and is losing Syria. Additionally, government has huuuuuge overhead costs and even in the Iraq war only 30% of the money actually went towards weaponry.
A private army funded by people's donations can very certainly defend itself.
>>78279624
>ironically it's always filthy fat animuh neets who live of the taxpayers buck who think they are edgy by saying 'Muh tax is theft'
Do they not realize their lifestyle of being a parasite would not exist if there was no taxation?
Also anybody who thinks they would want to live in a country without taxation is a naieve child, it's all nice until shits hits the fan
I'm fine with paying tax if the democratically chosen government actually serves the people and the people get a stronger democratic vote that goes beyond choosing a crooked politician once every 4 years.
>>78279624
>argument from effect
>>78280455
>majority of people
Let me show you how this works.
Look at my image. If you still disagree, look again. Rinse and repeat.
>>78309331
John sure is a dick.
