Is God real or not? Give me your best case
I pray to God, he answers me every time
He does exist
Why does it matter?
>>78205517
most likely
and yet even more likely, every religion is wrong
there is no absolute religion
free will doesnt exist
when the big bang happened both what happened in your life was predetermined and all eternity of the entire universe and possible multiverses to come
Since matter only really exists in non wave form, when it is being viewed by a conscience.
So yes.
>>78205517
>>78206906
There goes your answer
What's teh difference?
>>78205517
No
He does not, but the benefits of having a self-regulating universal code of ethics(provided it's separate from state and has full conversation and free speech about it) is better than one without.
>>78207182
>burgerclap education
Yes, I am here OP. Get me a beer.
>>78206906
This. Real, not real, i dont give a shit.
>>78205517
Is the universe God made real?
>>78205517
Evidence:
>The Bible
>The Torah
>The Quran
>"B- but Anon, those are just stories? How do you KNOW he's real?"
That's why it's called FAITH dumbass
>>78207771
>The Torah
>The Quran
Reading these have an almost 99% chance of turning you into an Atheist though?
>>78205517
Yes, whom created the laws of nature? our existence? our sense of morals and so on?
>>78205517
>If you count and count you eventually get to infinity, which is never
>God is the thing after infinity
>If god is infinite, we can never get to him or may ever comprehend him
>>78208111
Who created god?
>>78205517
There is no case.
Nobody knows if there is a "God" or not. There is no evidence for OR against.
Close this dogshit bait threat, it's going to be 300 posts of shitters arguing with each other.
>>78207996
I've read them both, and I'm still Christian.
Where the hell did you get that idea?
>>78205517
We live in an advanced simulation/video game. Gods are players. The afterlife is a respawn if you were an entertaining npc.
>>78207996
You are highly overestimating the intelligence of humans, Pharaoh.
Fear keeps the rest in line.
>>78205517
God's the realest nigga walkin.
Prove to me that Batman doesn't exist.
You can't?
Then Batman exists.
>usual believers rethoric
>>78208294
No one.
>>78205517
>>>/x
This is not politics.
DEFINE GOD PLEASE
>>78207383
>could God have created a universe with free-will but without evil?
so their 'free' will would be 'controlled' in such a way that they'd never do evil?
>then God is not all powerful
that's like:
>can God create a married bachelor?
>can an unstoppable force and immovable object exist at the same time?
logically impossible actions don't describe an action that can exist, they're just words puts together.
not being able to do things that can't be done doesn't take away from a being's omnipotence, since they'd still be able to do everything (omni) that can be done (potence)
>>78208397
You clearly didn't. Even basic shit like creation in genesis being in the wrong order, and the blatant polytheism should tip you off that hey, this book is manmade without divine inspiration.
The closest evidence that I personally have come to believe in God relies upon whether there truly is a multiverse for every possibly scenario, option or choice. If there is, then there is one universe where there is a omnipotent and eternal being that created the universe; if it is omnipotent it would be in all the other dimensions as well.
If the multiverse does not exist then it doesn't matter to the degree that we don't even have a free will or actual choices to make to begin with
>>78208613
So why can no one not have created the universe?
>>78205517
There is no empirical evidence of any specific supernatural deity save for human imagination. Your turn.
God is real. God is a man made creation that reflects the inner potential of the human spirit.
To not have a God is to give up on your humanity.
>>78205517
The entire overarching vastness that is space started off in a single atom that continuously grows in ad infinitum with an infinite amount of energy.
But what ignited this atom to continuously grow? What's feeding it energy? What is outside of this infinite expanding atom? Whatever is outside is constantly growing as well. How can something so vast grow and exsist in nothing?
The only solution to these answers?
God.
>>78205517
God is real
Anyone who doesn't love Jesus Christ is blue pilled as fuck
>>78208898
what
God always existed, is infinite and predates time.
Whenever I have moments of existential crisis, my mind always somehow manages to flow back to the same conclusion: if there is not such a thing as an afterlife? Then why do we have memory? If we were to just only pass into the black ethos, to be recycled back into the earth and contribute to the continual cycle of thermodynamics, wouldn't there be no way that we would have a use for memory? Does our brain just shut off, power down for all eternity? If so, why do we retain memories? If there was no afterlife, why would even have memories of having memories if they were just to be completely obliterated?
I think our capacity for memories, and the realization that we do indeed have memories, is proof of an afterlife. If there is indeed an afterlife, then how far of a stretch is it to believe in God, a creator that endowed us with memory that the very existence of such an ability proves there must be something beyond a merely coincidental events from a big giant bang of primordial soup that somehow got there in the first place?
>>78209254
And why could the universe not have always existed?
>>78209159
Dropping Christianity is literally the entry level blue-pill. If you believe in magic you aren't red-pilled, sorry.
There is something something deeply weird and not explicable by science about this place we're in. Not necessarily a case for god, but more for the weirdness of existence.
Fucks sakes OP read Philosophy books, the Big three all believed in God or Gods, only retards are Atheists.
>>78209519
Interested, what do you mean?
>>78209470
Because all the available scientific evidence suggests that is not true
>>78209470
Because the acceleration of expansion of the unicerse suggests it is coming to an end; check the big rip/freeze
>>78209653
That's not true.
>>78205517
THE BIBLE SAYS SO ATHEISTS BTFO
>LE TIPS LE FEDORA MAYMAY
>>78209159
Like if you consider being red pills to be truths about our world and blue pills to be lies, Christianity is the first blue pill that most people realize is bullshit.
Being agnostic is red-pilled.
>>78208958
Due to the limits of their technology people 500 years ago empirically believed that that the world was flat aside from a niche of a few scientists that thought otherwise.
Today, humanity in total is still vastly incapable of empirically disproving the existence of God.
Although somehow the belief in him thousands of ago lead to this exponential curve where technology vastly expanded to the way we have it today. While aboriginals and cavemen stuck in primitive states for several more thousands of years with no belief in him whatsoever.
Kind of like how athiest Mexicans with psuedo intellectual opinions are stuck in a cognitive dissonance refrain from being able to fully use logic.
>>78209728
Of Course it is, this is the entire consensus of 20th century Physics, there is a definite beginning( Big Bang, cosmic background radiation), and definite ending coming ( Cosmic expansion, Heat death of the universe ).
>>78210053
People 500 years ago did not believe the world was flat, no scientist using the scientific method ever said the world was flat.
The concept of the divine has been an integral part to human evolution. God was the totems of the tribal shamanistic beliefs, God was the pantheon of ancient Greece, God was Buddah and Jesus and Allah.
All reflections of the divine are equally real and equally important in the continual growth of mankind.
The disconnect in the modern world lies in our collective failure to update our relationship with the divine to the specifics and technicalities of the present age. Hence why so many get caught up in archaic dogmatic details and fail to see the forest from the trees.
Always remember that people from 2000 years ago were just as sure they had figured "it" out as many are so eager to think today. Almost all that we think we "know" today shall also pass.
>>78210204
You don't understand what the big bang was. Matter and energy existed, it was just condensed into one point and expanded at that point in time that we consider the big bang. No one is saying matter didn't exist at one point.
>>78210204
I honestly can't believe I have to explain this to what I assume are adults who graduated high school.
>>78209974
>Like if you consider being red pills to be truths about our world and blue pills to be lies, Christianity is the first blue pill that most people realize is bullshit.
Then you realize a Noble Lie is necessary for the vast majority of people. That there is eternal truth, and the majority of people need religion to walk this path. Without it they devolve into an aimless mass destined to accomplish nothing and use their "freedom" toward degenerate ends.
>>78210354
Yes and that small cosmic ball did not create itself, this is the point where scientists lose their reasoning capabilities, if you suggest anything other than that matter being created by an intelligent cause you have to violate the basic laws of logic.
>>78210544
They don't need religion, they need a group and a philosophy to belong to. That can be filled with patriotism, nationalism or really any well developed philosophy. Also more and more people realize it's bullshit every year and people aren't going to fake believe in it. The only people weird and neurotic enough to pretend to believe in magic are strange man-children on 4chan.
>>78210680
The ball could have always existed, maybe a universe existed and then collapsed into that ball, an intelligent creator is not needed. This is you projecting.
I became to believe in Jesus again after this documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abLATf6Q9Ls
Noticed now that the guy made another video, gonna watch later https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajqH4y8G0MI
>>78210216
My bad lad, I meant much earlier then that.
Here's me using the scientific method to prove God.
1+1=2
An atheist thinks
0......= 1,2, 3,4
Also to proof this universe has an architecture, look up the golden ratio.
>>78210900
This is you not understanding basic logic
>>78210204
From a philosophical and existential standpoint the most cutting edge theories of the day bring us no closer to anything than the belief of 4000 years ago that the Sun was Ra dying and being reborn every day.
Our condition means that no matter how far we reach the unknowable will always be just an inch ahead. The unknowable is the divine.
>>78210204
>>78210354
We have no idea what happened before or directly after the big bang, and we dom't know for sure the way the universe will die. There is also the possibility we live in a multiverse. Neither is more or less likely than a creator.
>>78205517
Yes.
We are real.
So god is real.
Pantheism.
God is everything.
Satan is merely an antipattern from all the "failed" decisions we make.
>>78208294
Who told you God was a created being? Find him and slap the shit out of him.
>>78205517
you're here shitposting on 4chin arent you???
>>78208679
God is a title; that title belongs to the being who made this universe.
>>78208898
Because we're not in heat death and cannot infinitely regress causes. The universe is material. God is an eternal spirit being.
>>78205517
>>78211125
Actually from a Philosophical standpoint Formal Logic was literally created By Aristotle 2,400 years, so 1, 600 years after Ra something pretty valuable happened, you are just to illiterate to know.
>>78210413
>ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
cosmological data and theories aside, an actual infinite causal regression of events is absurd.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert's_paradox_of_the_Grand_Hotel
>>78210216
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes
He discovered the circumference pretty accurately apparently.
That was 2200 years ago.
>>78210900
you believe such stupid shit on faith, and then shit on people less stupid than you for believing proper things by faith
>>78210790
>They don't need religion, they need a group and a philosophy to belong to.
The vast majority of people are not intellectuals, and they will not accept and internalize philosophy, nationalism, patriotism, etc. They must internalize morality and the plan for their life. They must sense their place in a bigger plan. Something larger than a nation is necessary for the majority of people.
>>78211170
Except all Multiverse theories I am aware of require anywhere from 6 to over 100 dimensional space, which of course has never been observed and is therefor unscientific and just guess work.
>>78205517
without God none of us would exist
>>78211170
You don't.
God does.
>>78211106
Yeah you're right, basic logic dictates that magic is real and that some man created the universe.
>>78211070
Oh okay you're trolling.
>>78211170
Then people use this to say that the bible is true. They don't just stop at "There may have been a conscious creator" It's there was a conscious creator and he was Jesus's dad.
>>78211478
This is a prime example of getting caught up in dogmatic details.
>>78211478
Shit tier logic.
>>78210204
The universe has a beginning.
The end is unsure.
And we don't know what realm the universe is in anon.
That's the next field of study. Things beyond the universe.
>>78211675
I said may have always existed. There is no way of knowing, I'm not pretending to have the answer because no one does. What I am sure about is that the bible is a myth and doesn't have the answer.
>>78211749
No, He is Jesus.
Jesus created the universe; Jesus is God.
>>78205517
Is Santa Clause real,Does he shimmy down your chimney and leave you presents? Tooth Fairy? Easter Bunny? The Holocaust?
>>78208294
Nobody, "God" or whatever you call it can not be proven or dis-proven. It is a belief system.
What is God?
You're given a name and trying to conceptualize something you do not understand and couldn't comprehend.
You occupy a space that is infinitesimally small compared to the size of the universe.
You're able to only perceive a fraction of what is contained in the universe.
You can make no definitive statements.
Anything else is full-retard.
>>78211846
The end is sure. You just don't know it. So it's either sure the way I know it, or it's sure the way "scientists" know it, which would be heat death.
Without us God wouldn't exist
>>78211749
Basic Logic dictates Cause and Effect, the only magic is believing in an uncaused universe which literally violates logic, if you are too stupid for this ride please go to another amusement park.
>>78205517
God is energy
Everything in our universe is made of energy
We're all just energy being continuously converted all the time
Sounds edgelord but whatever
>>78211918
You could say this about any ancient myth and it would be just as absurd.
>>78211868
God knows the answer.
God told His prophets.
God came to earth as Jesus and told His disciples.
They wrote several books on the matter.
>>78211700
Everything concerning the beginning and end of the universe is also guesswork
>>78211987
Very much this. To say "there is no God" is to have perfect knowledge.
>>78212015
This implies that we know everything there is to know about quantum mechanics and we don't. You would be laughed out of an academic context.
>>78205517
Gods are non falsifiable, so your question doesn't matter.
"Dreams" or "visions" do not count as evidence either.
>>78212045
Saying reality and myths are the same is absurd.
from one come all. I believe. It's like consciousness is key. Everything is evolving and we're at the brink of everything that has ever existed, so therefore the self is maybe in a way formed of the divine self. It's like our consciousness is divided from godhood down to whatever filth reads this, we can all choose to be better people and we can also choose to be worse, therefore all is good, but I think that "the universe" always want's expansion or evolution so therefore you feel better when you do things that is hard, and the reward is in that feeling of doing it. I believe that the self can become better by loving and understanding itself and the people around it. And by becoming better it can help people even more and becoming even better, and so it goes on until you are surrounded by only goodness and kindness because what you project will become. Also I believe that we are in the projection that is the consciousness of everything and therefore there is a god and everything is part of that god.
define god
>>78212074
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Not a mystery.
>>78212053
>>78212165
Yeah there are a lot of myths out there. They were made up by people.
>>78212249
And there is a reality you're completely ignorant of.
>>78212165
>reality
>Jesus created the universe
cringe
Started raining heavy after I questioned His existence, lads
It does not matter wheter he does or doesn't exist. Let me elaborate:
-We know that the Universe is expanding.
-We know that the Universe comes from a single point in space.
-This means that (if God exists) God exists outside our Universe, or else he did not create our Universe.
-If God is outside our Universe, well... we're alone and we have no God anyway.
>>78212074
No, the knowledge that there was a definite beginning is backed by cosmic background radiation, and the easily observed expanding universe also confirms the eventual heat death, this is not guess work, this is empirical science. You then need to use logic to figure out the why.
>>78205517
If there is a God. It has no afiliation with the religions we've created.
>>78212307
Reality needs evidence to be reality. You need to prove this massive claim that the bible is true when Genesis is verifiably bullshit you're off to a rough start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2LehsA1dk
>>78208603
>tell a muslim to prove the existence of allah
>he kills you
well shit, frog you have plenty of them in your country why don't you ask them the same
>>78211992
>The end is sure. You just don't know it. So it's either sure the way I know it, or it's sure the way "scientists" know it, which would be heat death.
Put it this way.
We have a finite universe.
But it's within a realm.
And that realm could add to the universe.
Infact, I think the universe itself is part of exactly this.
And I bet there is an infinite loop of this behavior occurring.
But dammit, I need to learn my science again, fuck my shitty degree.
>>78205517
Why are you asking the most evil people on sight about the most good being in the universe?
>>78212658
What point are you trying to make?
>>78212322
We are all one and the same anon.
Pantheism (or something like it) is correct.
Even (((Einstein))) believed in it.
>>78212786
Fuck yeah, Pantheist checking in.
>>78212453
>If there is a God. It has no afiliation with the religions we've created.
Actually, you couldn't be more wrong.
Religions are inadvertently the forces of nature at work.
Natural selection of memes.
Religions are a consequence of nature.
And as a pantheist, to me that is a consequence of God.
>>78205517
Even if god is real, why would you worship a God that allows all of this to happen?
>>78212418
Yes we know about the big bang, I'm talking about the inflation phase and before. Saying we know today how the universe will end is a bit brave, consider how little we knew just a millenium ago
>>78211750
>>78211835
>>78213038
Because we were taken from the rib of god.
It's a game anon.
Enjoy yourself nigga, but respect memes because the game is more enjoyable if we all do this.
>>78211478
>we know from biology. . .
why would God be subjected to what we know of biology?
>secondly, we also know that consciousness is an effect of matter
nah, we don't know that. and presupposing metaphysical naturalism when discussing the existence of the supernatural is circular.
>omniscience cannot coexist with omnipotence
>if god knows what will happen tomorrow, said god will be unable to change it without invalidating its knowledge
if X can't be done, then not being able to do X doesn't negate omnipotence since omnipotence is the ability to do everything that can be done.
>the existence of deities is that an object can only rationally be defined as existing when it can be detected in some manner
if a tree falls in the woods and no one that you know personally is around to hear it, did the tree exist in the first place?
stefan molyneux is garbage in philosophy
>>78212786
He didn't. Grossly misrepresenting.
>>78213460
Consciousness is a result of your frontal lobe. You can have your consciousness shut off it I hit you in the head really hard. It's not magic you fuckass, it's very simple. Consciousness is a function of your brain.
>>78213752
Oh you solved the mind-body problem, ok dude, well prepare for your Nobel Prize then.
>>78205517
Yes God is real, but is perhaps created in the future by some technology that allows him to transcend time and administer justice to all sinners once they die via a dmt trip .
>>78213953
>>78212658
I do it very often, but for some reason they don't like to admit that if Allah exists then Batman exists too...
>>78213953
A. You don't know what that is.
B. Your nervous system extended throughout your body, in a very real way your brain extends all around your body.
>>78213953
People might not know how consciousness actually WORKS, but it's pretty clear that there are conditions we can induce on the brain under which the person will report later on not having had any sense of "consciousness."
Knowing that the brain has something to do with consciousness is not the same as understanding how it works, just as knowing that the stomach is involved in obtaining energy from food doesn't explain all the details.
>>78213606
From wiki:
>He said he believed in the "pantheistic" God of Baruch Spinoza, but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized.[115][116] Einstein once wrote: "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but expressed it clearly".[117]
>>78213460
>why would God be subjected to what we know of biology?
Because supposedly he exists in and interacts with this world which is subjected to what the braches of Science discovers.
>if X can't be done, then not being able to do X doesn't negate omnipotence since omnipotence is the ability to do everything that can be done.
Step one: X can't be done
Step two: ???
Step three: X can be done.
>if a tree falls in the woods and no one that you know personally is around to hear it, did the tree exist in the first place?
yes
>>78213953
You'll find that people who study the brain know that your consciousness is a result of your brain function and can be turned off or shut down permanently.
>>78214164
Actually,
my pantheistic point of view of god is this:
>God is not conscious of itself to an extent
>God is infact a naturally selected mechanism in itself
>The universe is a conclusion of that unconscious mechanism naturally dividing, almost cellular like in it's on mechanical chaos
>>78205517
No, there is no God. It is a useful idea for some, but it's a placebo to make things seem less bleak. There isn't any evidence to suggest it's real besides personal anecdotes and that can't be measured or verified or repeated with any reliability. Believing in experiencing God in any way is a hallucination, which can feel real but isn't.
>>78214623
Actually, this universe is probably the conclusion of a conscious """god""" trying to figure his own shit out within god.
>>78214639
>but it's a placebo to make things seem less bleak
What is bleak about chaos?
That is the opposite of bleak to me anon.
I like chaos.
And I like giving the chaos order.
>>78206906
The biggest reason to care is that religions have used the authority of God to rule the people for all sorts of political reasons. religion has the ability to brainwash people into doing horrible things. So it does matter if you care about freedom at all.
>>78214196
You retard the Mind Body problem has been around for hundreds of years in Philosophy, nobody yet has proven whether they are one or dual natured.
Can't twitch the Hitch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geStcOk2tmM
>>78205517
i have no evidence for, or against, the theory of any god existing.
3
>>78215136
I think the monists and dualists are BOTH correct to an extent.
Both forms occur in whatever "this" is.
>>78215136
philosophy is a shit where government paid fucking idiots contemplate inconsequencial, intellectual shit instead of going out to the world and working on to solve its problems.
t. a philosophy student
>>78208324
You know something is fucked when the Australian is the only sane poster
>>78215404
>philosophy is a shit where government paid fucking idiots contemplate inconsequencial, intellectual shit instead of going out to the world and working on to solve its problems.
No, philosophers are important.
They create loose hypotheses that scientists and pragmatists work on.
I already use it in my field - law.
>>78215266
>i have no evidence for, or against, the theory of Batman existing.
...
>>78215485
bah.
This thread is brainstorm.
I see nothing wrong with it.
>>78214933
Well good for you. Religious people tend to need security blankets
>>78215264
that was pointless, there wasn't even a 'gotcha' moment.
>logic is man-made
nah, it was discovered by man, not constructed.
>>78214943
The question of gods existance has nothing to do with religion, even if you could scientifically disprove god they would still believe
Who else provides me with the sweet sweet nectar of life known as tea.
>>78215657
>Religious people tend to need security blankets
They give order to chaos.
Nothing wrong with that.
And religious communities are highly useful for people to make connections.
Jews have proven this.
>>78215404
philosophy aims to answer "why" instead of "how."
>>78215732
>The question of gods existance has nothing to do with religion
>memes about god have nothing to do with god
>god has nothing to do with finding a moral basis
think about what you just said sven.
>>78205517
evolution would not allow someone like you to survive.
/thread.
Was Hitchens killed for criticizing Israel?
>>78216272
I disagree.
But I haven't slept and need to hit the sack.
Figure it out.
>>78205517
Yes, without god(something that is outside the natural order) causal reality just goes backwards infinitely.
>>78215959
By god I do not mean the bible god or Allah. Religious people "Know" that their personal god exists, to them it's not a question
>>78205517
Is your arm? You don't know.
try projecting love and compassion to others without compromise and god will be more than willing to show himself to you.
or you can keep betting on a broken existence of 80 odd years full of pain, misery and numbness.
>>78205517
There certainly are things that go beyond my grasp.
>Where did the universe come from?
>Why does anything exist at all?
>etc...
I know that God explains basically nothing. You could ask
>Where does God come from?
>Why does God exist?
>etc...
Therefore I am an agnostic, but I think that people need God in order not to degenerate - and not to succumb to the Jewish corruption.
For me God is a metaphor for an unattainable ideal which we should all strive to get as close as possible.
God is a hard-on
