Why does socialism not work?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/world/americas/dying-infants-and-no-medicine-inside-venezuelas-failing-hospitals.html?action=click&contentCollection=Americas&pgtype=imageslideshow&module=RelatedArticleList®ion=CaptionArea&version=SlideCard-7
>>77885564
Scarcity.
Because the rich can move.
Same as if you try to tax the fuck and increase wages for local business owners. The majority are already retired and continue their biz because the money is good. Take that money, and they retire.
>>77885764
>Because the rich can move.
This is why we need a single world government.
Can't move when there's nowhere to move to.
>>77885861
So how can your control yachts?
Is Venezuela the absolute worst place to live? Sounds like a nightmare there.
>>77885564
Scarcity and price fixing. Fix the price of something and the aboveground market can't react - there's no reason to increase production, while the blackmarket runs scarcity and real prices ever higher.
>>77885564
Socialism didn't fail.
Falling oil prices did.
price controls fuck with supply and demand.
>>77885927
Yes.
>>77885564
Because it's shit.
The government basically takes all the money for themselves and nobody has an incentive to do anything.
>>77885564
>Why does socialism not work?
It assumes that wealth simply exists and that there is poverty because the rich people horde more than their fair share. Wealth doesn't simply exist. It is created.
By forcing social equality you also fuck over the system that was able to produce things in the first place. So you no longer produce what you used to. This causes equality in poverty, and a lack of basic goods.
However, a moderate amount of socialism can be supported by a culturally homogeneous, wealthy country. It is essentially a luxury that can be afforded by good countries.
>>77885564
Looks fake
>>77885564
>Why does socialism not work?
It works when it's done society that is unified by something other than tyranny and corruption. Basically in all white or east Asian country with rule of law.
>>77885861
>This is why we need a single world government.
So you don't want socialism, but communist tyranny. Too much power centralized in single organization.
Not my favorite system, but it works okay in a country with high quality genetics. That's why 80's scandinavia was the poster child of socialism.
Little known fact is that Sweden had a great eugenics program running until the 70s.
Of course with 50% mestizos everything fails.
>>77886005
No private sector leads to government monopoly and quickly if one crumble both crumble.
You always need a backup you can't just have one entity do all the work.
It will never work. "Seize the means of production" All your doing is seizing the property of one elite and placing it in the hands of another, more corrupt and more inept elite.
>>77885564
damn this looks like the scene in MGS:5:TPP with the throat virus thing
>>77885564
https://youtu.be/zkPGfTEZ_r4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem
>>77886005
Lack of industry diversity caused by...socialism.
>>77886201
>tyranny
What makes a single world government tyranny anymore than an entire country under one government?
>>77885564
At least their health care is free.
>>77886560
Pretty sure their healthcare actually makes you more sick at this point.
>>77886601
But it's free, and that's all that matters.
the upkeep of society isn't run from the top down.
the whole of our economy is tiny details that have to be looked after. a top-down system puts responsibility and incentives far from where the action is
I don't care what a genius you have in the throne or behind the desk. the things that have to be looked after in the offices, factories, fields and stores are too numerous.
you not only have to divide the responsibility into smaller groups or even down to the individual level. you need a SYSTEM that determines HOW LARGE of a group is in charge of what resources, and who is in what group.
the market is a SYSTEM that figures out what we need, how much of each thing, how well each thing needs to be made, where it needs to go, when it needs to be ready, who should make it, who should manage those guys, how much all of them get paid.
and the market is CONSTANTLY giving feedback. if somebody's fucking up, somebody's losing money, and things have to change. they keep changing, and changing in response to other changes.
but socialism is good because we VOTED for a guy once or twice? he gets feedback once every four years?
>>77885564
Embargoes. Sanctions. Economic wars. See Libya and Russia. Libya was socialist. Russia is not. But they both ended up on their ass. Stop believing everything you hear. Thanks for the free oil for poor seniors in new york venezuela but now you must pay. Sometimes i think the usa is in opec
>>77886836
Muh scented razor blades
>>77885564
It obviously starts with good intentions but often leads to failure because the economy is effectively stagnated. Unless your economy is managed by the state (which is effectively communism) it becomes largely stifled due to businesses literally having little to no incentive to actually run. One big mistake venzuela had was price fixing of imports telling foreign marketers that their prices were artificially too high and that they should sell them cheaper. They did this for a number of products even domestic ones to the point that producers were selling at a loss all the time and there was no kick back. Obviously this leads to a deficit, shortage and eventually you get this.
>>77885564
There is no incentive to produce anything.
>>77886887
I saw a video that all the richies in venezuela currently have lots of food. Is anybody rioting or dying? Did poor people always have nothing there? No
>>77885564
Lazy people don't have to work. Hard working people see this and say "fuck it, if they're not working, then neither am I."
Then the whole system collapses as no one is doing their jobs, and the govt consistently gives out more money in handouts than it receives in taxes.
>>77886005
They balanced their budget entirely on high oil prices and set up retarded system of price controls on staple foods that basically killed farming of said products in country as farmers would have made massive losses while producing stuff like maize, potato, rice and milk. Due to price controls they just switched to non-price controlled products.
Socialism works if it's run with principles of free market economy and uses positive incentives instead of dictating and punishment.
In Nordic countries Social Democrats made very strong commitment to free market economy in early 1920's, just with reasonable government intervention, strong unions and progressive taxation. No forced collectivization of means of production. Those things serve interests of workers far better than government micromanaging everything with iron fist.
>>77885564
>that pic
BUILD
THE
WALL
>>77887038
>I saw a video that all the richies in venezuela currently have lots of food. Is anybody rioting or dying? Did poor people always have nothing there? No
I imagine corrupt officials were getting oodles of money from outside interests at the expense of the people. The people see this as lack of regulation, regulate more then cry when nothing changed
>>77887040
Yeah here we just grow money on computers. We pay out way more in taxes on corporate welfare and bank illegalities and repackaged debt than we do on poorfags. It's so hard to run a bank
>>77885564
Its not like these countries full of brown skinned people are going to be raving success stories under say capitalism, or any other such forms of government they might try.
>>77886461
>What makes a single world government tyranny anymore than an entire country under one government?
Power being in hands of tiny click of leaders that have virtually no connection to any of their subjects. They cannot understand local conditions. Simply too far removed from actual people.
>>77886998
bull
>>77885564
Human Nature.
>>77887143
cant tell if serious
if serious, this is why I'm leaving the west.
>>77887214
Muh invisible hand
>>77887038
all of the shit that leftists give capitalism ACTUALLY APPLIES TO SOCIALISM
Hugo Chavez' daughter has four billion dollars and moved to the US
>>77887206
Money and profit is the only real reason to run and have a business. If all your money is taken, why do you even open your doors in the morning?
>>77887238
We don't owe quadrillions to the rothschilds? Dont be so lamely hyperbolic when we're talking simple facts. You're showing your sweating too much. Daily reminder Milton Friedman invented basic guaranteed incomes and Keynes didn't like minorities of any sort
>>77885564
It only works in Germanic / Nordic societies. We Celt/Iberian/Slav/Frank/Med-whatevers can't handle it. We can do civilization just fine, but true harmony escapes us.
>>77887317
Fear of death.
>>77887038
>I saw a video that all the richies in venezuela currently have lots of food.
That is because they have foreign currency. Same applies to government big shots. It's the middle and working classes that are getting shafted.
>Is anybody rioting or dying?
Riots are pretty much regular daily event there. Crime is skyrocketing and they are pretty much most violent country that isn't actually in state or war at the moment.
>>77887317
>there are no rich people in any businesses in left wing countries
>>77887390
Overhyped cock and balls. Just like every single time we talk of certain countries
>>77887189
>Power being in hands of tiny click of leaders that have virtually no connection to any of their subjects.
How is this not how things are right now?
>>77887408
a "left wing country" is not synonymous with socialism that takes all profit
>>77887500
Hair splitting
>>77887519
what? thats not hairsplitting. France and denmark sure are "left wing countries" but are no where near taking 100% of profits and redistributing it
>>77887571
Left wing encompasses social democracy, socialism and communism. No social democratic countries are not left wing nor do they take 100%. Commie countries take quite a bit. Is it 100%? Who knows. But still rich businessmen
>>77886201
>So you don't want socialism, but communist tyranny.
false dichotomy
>>77887486
If you make it global... power will inevitably get even more centralized and further removed from actual people.
EU is perfect example how globalization works. It's complete travesty when it comes to democracy. It has parliament that cannot fucking propose laws. Those are proposals will get handed out top down by un-elected bureaucrats.
>>77887245
"It really wasn't Socialism this time either guys I swear they were practicing capitalism when they nationalized all those industries."
At what point do we just gas everyone who still identifies as Socialist, Communist, or some other variant of delusional?
>>77887350
you're not even making coherent point
at risk of feeding a troll
the banks failed in 08 because they took old people's savings and used it to fund giving houses to illegal immigrants, drug dealers, criminals, and lawn mowers with histories of defaulting on loans, ON THE ORDERS OF THE GOVERNMENT. the government threatened to sue the banks for racism if they didn't.
then when the criminals didn't pay their mortgages, old people lost their pensions.
the government ORDERED the banks to lose money. capitalism didn't cause this.
>>77887317
>Money and profit is the only real reason to run and have a business.
subjective
use your noggin
>>77887408
the further left a country is, the less a person's wealth depends on the productivity of his business, and the more it depends on how politically connected he is.
lobbying, nepotism, and bribes exist proportionally to how much power a government has. you can try to legislate against this type of influence, but if the government can grant favors and create monopolistic conditions, money will find its way to the politicians.
Because democracy doesn't work as well as concentrated power for getting things done, and working ownership of the means of production leads to the same pitfalls as standard means of ownership.
>>77887725
When gasoline prices are elastic and we go after collusion and refine the raw products before we're allowed to export. The states does that last thing. We do none of them
>>77887658
>Left wing encompasses social democracy
>social democracy
not socialism.
>all the other economic shit
you can't just use a generalized term like "left wing countries" then rattle off 3 economic ideologies and pretend that every "left wing country" falls under it and therefore it is by association.
britain for example is far more left than the US and isn't any of those 3 things you mentioned
>>77885564
It doesn't work in Venezuela because Venezuela is full of smelly dumb beaner scum.
>>77887747
>>77887788
I don't see the world like you. I see Mammon. And various shleps
>>77885861
Instead of admitting it doesn't work you fantasize about all this dumb shit instead about a world government. The true stupidity of the leftist.
>>77885564
They just need to go to Cuba
>>77887757
Thats economics 101
Why the fuck would anyone go into business or innovate anything without an incentive?
>>77886005
Middle East is still doing well, for the Middle East
>>77887956
I won't sell you this because i gotta pay tax on it. Mmkay
Nigger
>>77885564
Define "work." If you have good institutions and substantial wealth, a socialist system can work as long as the society is orientated around maintaining it. Even then, the focus is not quite growth as much as maintaining a slow decline; think 1970's Russia.
The problem with growth in a heavily socialized system is that there is little incentive to best utilize resources. For instance, workers will go where they're paid most for their labor versus the cost of living. The industries that are willing to pay the highest dollar for this labor are those that need it the most, and can gain the most benefit from hiring it. Thus labor gets allocated efficiently with people filling roles that they're well suited to while being paid the highest possible market rate.
In a heavily socialized system, the importance of most efficient allocation isn't as important as say full employment; thus you'll get factories full of poorly trained employees who would have made much better ditch diggers.
>What about Sweden/Denmark/Finland?
Honestly, they're not really socialist economies. They're mixed market, and have strong unions. Even then, the strain of having such a high tax burden is beginning to show along with the relative increase in risk in producing socialized goods such as housing.
>Why is Venezuela so shit?
The economy isn't diversified enough to adjust quickly when their main export begins to falter.
>>77887996
More like "I closed my business because I wasn't making any money"
>>77887788
this. people have been saying it for 200 years but an idiot simply won't understand it the first time, and he won't understand it the 100th time.
this is hwy brutal countries such as japan or china or singapore need to FORCE capitalism on people. they have no choice in the matter.
>>77887883
are you talking like a schizophrenic on purpose?
>>77887996
How much tax?
If I build a bike and end up having to pay 51% in taxes then I wouldn't have as much as incentive as the place with 10% taxes. >>77887996
>>77888062
Those rare and large words scaring the melting of your lies? Calling me a schizo is not a fucking argument you shitbag idiot loser
>>77888054
Then fucking close. If you can't make money even if your taxes and expenses were very high then do something else. Isn't that what we say with anything else no matter how important or not, they are?
>>77888177
>Then fucking close. If you can't make money even if your taxes and expenses were very high then do something else. Isn't that what we say with anything else no matter how important or not, they are?
Are you just pretending to be retarded or do you really not know what socialism and how a business fucking operates?
>>77887956
no, thats STATUS QUO economics 101
>>77885564
How do Venezuelans feel about their communist paradise? Are they ready for capitalism, or are they still all "not real communism" or "the man be holding me down n' sheeeit"?
>>77885627
what flag is that, fellow burger
>>77888214
Hey bud. We all have great ideas. We pay people five bucks an hour to make hundreds of $5 sandwiches that cost us 96 cents all in. All. In. To make. If that becomes 2.17 one day and you go belly up, then go ahead and masturbate for me in the corner because you're useless
>>77888266
What the fuck does that even mean? The reason people optimize their business, make sure their production is efficient is because they make more money.
>>77888306
>Hey bud. We all have great ideas. We pay people five bucks an hour to make hundreds of $5 sandwiches that cost us 96 cents all in. All. In. To make. If that becomes 2.17 one day and you go belly up, then go ahead and masturbate for me in the corner because you're useless
Canada is NOT socialist you fucking retard
>>77888031
explaining economics to idiots in terms of macro is a bad idea because idiots can't understand abstraction.
you have to use a micro example.
a good example ATM is the swedish fire department. the government mandates gender and racial equality in hiring, so they have to throw out the old proficiency test. they mandate instead a treadmill test (instead of walking up 40 flights of stairs with 100lb equipment) in which women and men and niggers perform equally. now, everyone's equal on paper.
okay, now that building is n fire, and they can't walk u the stairs, and people die.
uh oh! who's at fault? is it the person who hired them? xe blames the lawmaker. is it the person who wrote the law? the law writer is going to blame... racists!
socialism and gov. NEVER allows guilty people to be punished.
another good example is that nigger that pissed on the korn flakes machine. they government FORCED kellogs to hire that nigger. who is to blame? millions of dollars get lost, productivity goes down.
until you FORCE someone to jump through these things, they don't understand it in the abstract.
>>77888334
You're too quick to jump on people. You made a shit broken system. Get over it paid shill
>>77888383
what system? Canada isn't socialist. Are there any real socialist nations that actually pull 100% from their producers?
>>77888350
Excellent rebuttal. I was speaking of you guys really. And where did i say i meant only Canada? The pronouns debater
>>77888383
what system? Canada isn't socialist. Are there any real socialist nations that actually pull 100% from their producers? None of the countries in europe actually are
>>77887956
>Why the fuck would anyone go into business or innovate anything without an incentive?
The could be other incentives than just profit. Occasionally folks change their profession to something that is less profitable in monetary terms, but more challenging or just more fun to do. Basically more money vs overall quality of life. Just making ends meet might be enough.
>>77888334
>what does status quo mean
yeah ok bud
>>77888489
>we
>We
>we pay people
>costs US
sounds like you were talking about yourself
>>77888495
>>77888477
Are you a robot?
>>77888374
The random things zionists will shit on socialism for. If you have a socialist country, various tulip flowers will figure this out and they won't grow out of the ground. This is a fact
>>77885564
It's amazing that these guys don't work tirelessly to improve themselves apart from the government. If Americans were in this situation, the hospitals would be clean, people would donate everything they had. Local groups would band together to collect what is needed.
Hospitals with rotting mattresses and no paper for doctors to write on is crazy town. Even a failing state should be better- this is not just a political problem, this is a cultural problem.
>>77888568
We are each capitalist idiot. Except you even more so. And shittier for it
>>77885564
It can only work with white people, and as long as the wealthy people don't move.
>>77887300
Is she hot? Is she single?
>>77888697
I wasn't even mentioning capitalism with you
socialism stagnates business and economies because they take all the profit from their people and redistribute it.
Then you bring up some some dumb umbrella term buzzword thinking it means anything and you still can't name a socialist country
>>77888741
Correct. It worked pretty well in Germany didn't it? At least before the war.
>>77888688
mestizos are so fucking stupid they want us to feed their children and teach their children to read. they're fucking helpless.
this is why we're gonna
BUILD
THE
WALL
>>77889035
Germany wasn't socialist
You guys still talking about this? Gee, I thought you would had forgotten about us with all that gay muslim alligator armed with assault rifles business going on.
Thanks! We really appreciate it.
Hopefully those Ucranians bastards wont steal the spolight this time like it happend 2 years ago.
>>77889075
>National Socialist German Workers' Party
>Not socialist
>>77885564
>“I doubt that anywhere in the world, except in Cuba, there exists a better health system than this one,” Mr. Maduro said.
Holy shit, liberalism is a mental illness no matter what country you are in I guess.
>>77889249
>Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea
>no guys I swear its Democratic!
>>77888282
nicolas maduro has tried his hardest to claim that it's not his (or hugo chavez') policies, but instead capitalist countries "sabotaging" the factories in his country.
I don't think the citizens are still buying it
>>77889249
>Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
>its really socialist, not communist
>>77888374
>a good example ATM is the swedish fire department. the government mandates gender and racial equality in hiring, so they have to throw out the old proficiency test. they mandate instead a treadmill test (instead of walking up 40 flights of stairs with 100lb equipment) in which women and men and niggers perform equally. now, everyone's equal on paper.
Here in Finland firefighters are pretty much only profession where fitness requirements are same for both genders. In last 22 years while women have been accepted into rescue services college... like 6 women have met those requirements. At same time about 1400 men have done same thing. They when they opened firefighter training for women, there were lots of applicants in couple first years, more than in following 20 years. 4 got selected, couple quit while still in training or almost immediately after graduating switched to a less physically demanding tasks in fire departments. Only one has remained as firefighter.
Pic related.
>>77887747
Literally none of that is true. Especially that part about suing banks. It's like you only listen to talk radio or something.
>>77889443
in america, the justice department sued NY fire dept. for having a test that included basic addition in the world problems, for being racist against blacks, because fewer than 2% of the black applicants could do the addition
you hang on now, in one very specific instance. but in the rest of your industries and in the rest of your jobs and schooling, and in the rest of al other countries, it's falling apart.
literally only china and japan are standing up to this. the world is fuckng FALLING APART.
when a job has no objective standards, they become distributed based on connections, like in soviet russia or maoist china.
the sharks are circling. we need to prepare, it will only get worse.
>>77885627
This gif is gold
>>77888282
>>77889430
The citizens are still buying it.
The oposition is still speaking about instaurating "democratic socialism"
Chavez popularity is still around 55%
Maduro is around 25%.
Most people don't blame socialism, they blame the current goverment.
Meanwhile the goverment has the propaganda machine running 24/7 trying to convince people that gravity is just a social construct and that the reason we have no milk is because we don't really believe in fairies with all our hearts, or something like that.
We deserve this.
>>77888303
Venezuelan flag you uneducated chimp
>>77886005
>Falling oil prices did.
Oil is finite, how will they keep up socialism and all its entitlements once they run out of oil?
>>77889867
what are the chances you'll all starve to death and relieve the civilized world of the burden of your existence?
>>77889868
I am not uneducated.
I am a burger.
>>77885927
Rapture City!!!!
>>77889718
>in america, the justice department sued NY fire dept. for having a test that included basic addition in the world problems, for being racist against blacks, because fewer than 2% of the black applicants could do the addition
That kinda reminds me about San Francisco fire department lieutenants exam few years ago where city council restarted selection process due to 90% of selected being white and rest being latinos or asians.
Studying to selection exam being obvious cheating and racism.
>you hang on now, in one very specific instance. but in the rest of your industries and in the rest of your jobs and schooling, and in the rest of al other countries, it's falling apart.
IMHO the school selection system is inherently biased towards women. It's biology, boys just hit puberty couple years later and due that are more of mess in final years of high school. Add army into the mix and fucked up system that forces universities to favor most recent graduates.
Schools especially have the problem with women being way over represented teachers.
Same shit in almost all western countries.
Add growing totally foreign minorities and eventual affirmative action in picture... something must be done to stop that.
>when a job has no objective standards, they become distributed based on connections, like in soviet russia or maoist china.
Nepotism isn't exactly foreign concept in free market economy.
BTW a made a bit of mistake when it comes to fire fighter selections here. They actually start course every six months instead of once a year. So it's about 2800 men selected vs 6 women.
>>77890311
Low, sadly.
Many will die for sure, but it wont be enough.
Please nuke us.
My only wish is that you leave me last, so the last words a Venezuelan said on the face of earth were "Thank you".
>>77888688
>If Americans were in this situation, the hospitals would be clean, people would donate everything they had. Local groups would band together to collect what is needed.
Depends where you are in America. The place that bands together would have to be fairly homogeneous and have a sense of unity, community, and selflessness. Obviously, this rules out many liberal shitholes and nigger dens.
>>77885564
>“Why did the director of this hospital steal that equipment?” was all she could say. “Tell me whose fault is this?”
So the faultis socialism or greed and evil? Or perhaps the USA effort behind the scenes to control and magnify the political battles in this country, a variation on the "government by riot" doctrin developed over the past 20 years or so. What socialism is "guilty" of, certainly in the Western Hemisphere, is being the target of opportunity for inter-national oligarchy and corporate exploitation.
A similar crisis developed in Argentina when "Nobel Prize Winner" Milton Freidman's neo-Consevative economic principles were tried out there.
https://themormonworker.wordpress.com/2009/07/18/milton-friedman-and-chicago-school-economics/
>Join me over the weeks to come as we follow Milton Friedman and his Chicago Boys in their attempts to prove their theories by experimenting on various countries. Watch as the Chicago School ideals rape Poland and Russia, destroy Asia and bring the southern cone to it’s knees. Democratically elected leaders will be assassinated by the CIA in order to have ferocious dictators put in their place, millions of people will find themselves without food, homes or jobs, demonstrators will be arrested for protesting their victimization and individuals will be taken from their homes in the night to be tortured and killed. No, this isn’t a Tom Clancy novel or a horror movie, it’s the legacy of a man named Milton Friedman.
>>77886005
and there lies the problem with centrally planned economies
>>77886887
still their own shitty policies fault you dolt
>>77891320
I'm sorry, Venezuelabro. I'm sorry you couldn't have illegally immigrated here rather than one of these "AZTLAN YES" faggots we have right now.
>>77893492
You are too far away anyway.
We would need to get into a raft boat to go to Cuba and then another raft boat to Miami.
>>77893725
Make it so. You sound like you're a greater ally to the US than half the US.
>>77893725
If I could send you something I would, but I know your government would confiscate it.
>>77893838
Please don't send stuff. Those who deserve it wont ask for it, and those who ask are the ones that turned this place into a shithole.
If you want to do something for us punch Noam Chomsky in the face: thats been my fantasy since 2007.
>>77894021
If he ever comes to Houston, Texas I'll try.
>>77894192
Thanks.
Other people in my list are: Danny Glover, Naomi Campbell, Oliver Stone and Sean Penn.
All these goddamn useful idiots came here to suck dictators dick in one way or the other.
We will die and they will just keep going on living their fantastic guild free lives telling themselves "Well, this wasn't real socialism anyway" and would move on to the next new thing with a cock to suck on. Its not fair they get out of this untouched. On the very least I want to give them a fraction of the pain we had to suffer because they cant fucking understand that actors have no understanding of either politics or economics and they shouldnt try to support causes they dont really understand.
Sometimes I do this GoT thing were I say their names before I go to sleep, my hatred towards them keep me going. So if someone could do this for me I might just descend to my grave with a smile.
>>77885564
because people will almost always act in their best interests.
Socialism in theory would work as long as everyone agrees.....
so now you see the problem.
>>77885564
It does work, it just does something unpleasant.
>>77887710
>>77887486
>>77887189
>>77886461
>>77887686
>>77886201
>>77885861
>a Fin schooling Americans on checks and balances in government
The hell are you faggots doing? Did you forget everything our Founding Fathers taught us?
>>77885564
Mixing morality with economics.
Like mixing religion with geology.
>>77890446
>nice
>>77885627
>>77885564
Because a thousand people free to pursue their own self-interest make better decisions with their money than one bureaucrat.
Because it needs to be implemented globally, brave new world style
