What happens when /pol/ grows up and realize there is no such thing as a "god" ?
>>77640656
>my beliefs are superior/less childish then yours
what happens when you grow up you fucking leaf
>>77640806
They are not my beliefs , they are my observations.
>>77640656
People need different things to ignore existential dread.
>>77640886
THERES NO DIFFERENCE YOU FUCKING COON
>>77640960
Making up imaginary solutions to a real problem isnt the way to fix it.
>>77641073
Yes there is faggot , I have observed a lack of god for my entire life as you have never observed god once , therefore rely on belief.
>>77641213
THERES NO PROOF THAT THERE ISNT A GOD YOU FUCKING DUMB NIGGER
What about the god of the enlightners?
>>77640656
Depends on what you consider to be "God"
>>77641505
There is no proof that Im not god either , how the fuck do you know any better you stupid cunt ?
>>77640656
the exact same thing you just did
>tips fedora
>>77640656
Godfags are more often than not huge government bootlickers and statist cumguzzlers in general.
If you are looking for an answer I think you should find it in that piece of information, they are in need of a higher power like an intrusive government or a God in a bad mood to live.
Human trash id what they are
>>77640656
Are you enlightened by your intelligence?
*tip*
>>77641918
Tell me , why are brits so damn fond of their imaginary friend ?
>>77642045
I have been in a constant state of euphoric enlightenment for as long as I can remember.
>>77641901
BECAUSE YOUR A HUMAN, NOT A GOD YOU FUCKING MOOSE SHAGGER
>>77642288
But there is no proof.
>>77642049
>Brits among the least religious in the world: UK comes 59th in poll of 65 countries after only 30% of population say they have a faith
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3036133/Brits-religious-world-UK-comes-59th-poll-65-countries-30-population-say-faith.html
>>77642562
>1/3 of a country believes in something they were told to believe years ago and still do unconditionally.
no wonder you're getting islam'd
>>77642761
nothing to do with the question:
>What happens when /pol/ grows up and realize there is no such thing as a "god" ?
>>77641213
How do you know what I have observed? If I said I had you wouldn't believe me anyway.
You have not observed a moon landing so how do you know the worlds not feeding you bullshit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrcQAYS9JtY
Ex-Atheist of 27 years. AMA.
>>77642980
You can actually shine lasers at mirrors left on the moon to calculate the distance between the earth and the moon , If I wanted to verify the fact that we landed on the moon I could. Or I could just go there and check it out myself. to be sure I wont because of how fucking expensive it is , but I could.
It still would not be as expensive as the amount of money one would put into verifying the existence of something thats pretty much clear is a made up story..
Everyone knows virgins cant give birth , so either the bible is the biggest most popular cuck fantasy ever or its bullshit in its entirety.
>>77643601
How is the divorce ?
>>77643601
what made you change?
I honestly don't know how you can pass the age of 18 without realizing that the bible is a myth.
>>77643729
I got divorced to the world on March 15th. Its great. I no longer worry about anything.
>>77643742
Reading the Bible my self and investigating the claims it makes my self. Taking the promise of seek and you shall find to heart and holding God to it.
>>77643958
Some will never accept how meaningless their lives are.
There is The Emperor and the glorious purpose He bestows upon us, nothing more.
>>77642409
God is inmortal
if someone shoots you, you die
>>77644207
That's a pessimistic way of looking at it, I'm just saying it's a myth and that's very clear.
>>77643958
>>77644321
It is a lie, not a myth.
>>77644235
are you sure?
what if he just retorn to his incorporeal form?
>>77644207
Everything is pointless without God. Anyone can understand this. Few will ever seek out God but many will run away from him just like a thief runs away from a cop. We all know we're bad kids.
>>77640656
Religious existentialism is a way of experiencing the world and edifying the human spirit. Religious experience will always exist.
>>77644398
They're not mutually exclusive, but yes I do believe intentional deception was in mind when the bible was written. I believe it's an obvious tool of psychological control that perfectly targets the human mind in order to enslave it.
>>77644469
My life is not pointless without god. I live for my loved ones, and I enjoy nearly every day of my life.
>>77643729
You certainly can believe whatever you want. :)
I personally have witnessed way too many events in my life that while possible are statistically unlikely.
For example: When I was 7 Y/O my family was on a road trip to Georgia and we were stopping at a rest stop. We were going to sleep there but my dad had the strangest feeling that we needed to leave. That night a tornado hit the rest stop we would have been at had we not left.
Another example was from my time in the military.
In Sangin we had our route clearance team come back to the FOB and tell us that they found an active 200lb IED(Still working) with our tire tracks over the pressure plate.
Anyone can say it is lucky coincidence but I have had such a plethora of these events in my life that I'll take my chances with the whole God thing.
>>77644434
we need to test it
>>77644665
You know that animals including humans can detect coming storms right?
>>77644678
but if he returns to his incorporeal form, how are going to know?
you know, its very well known that if there is god he just doesnt answer us
what makes you think that if the leaf is indeed god he would tell us?
>>77644932
we ask him before we shoot him
if he says he's not going to show himself there would be the doubt
>>77644637
Bold claims for someone on the internet.
>>77641505
1) Look up: burden of proof
2) There's a load of evidence supporting the non-theist position.
3) Just because you cant be proved wrong doesn't mean its right. Silly goose.
>>77640656
> the universe just is and we shouldnt question why it came to be
what?
>>77644829
Have you ever predicted a tornado out of the blue when you are originally from a state(Oregon) that virtually never has even a thunderstorm?
Also, as I said before. Many other examples in my life.
>>77645036
what if the leaf is an actual psycopath troll?
>>77645046
I'm not even sure what that's supposed to imply. People who use the internet are unhappy?
>>77645256
...That's not how it works. A severe storm changes the quality of the atmosphere and many people can detect it coming. Also, a few coincidences in your several decades of life and suddenly magic is real?
Use some critical thinking anon, this is bad.
The universe is causal and posits a creation.
This means that it cannot be created in and of itself.
If it was created in and of itself, that would be a miracle.
How do rationalise this?
>>77640656
Some canadian on a trap sharing site said god doesnt exists. Ok
>>77640656
kek will cut you down for saying shit like that m8
>>77645069
I was convinced by the data that God exists and he is the God of the Bible. No data has ever come out contradicting God. Only hypothesizes attempting to and dunces clinging to them as their hope despite them not holding water.
>>77645644
It might have always existed. There are a lot of possibilities and none of them require the bible to be true. With this logic you could say any creation myth is true. Do you guys really not see the flaws in this type of thinking? This is really basic stuff.
>>77640656
They go to reddit.
>>77645718
False. No real atheist has a real postiion, or a non-position. Aside from there being no good evidence supporting your claim, there are too many contradictions in the bible and other falsities. One being the flood. Either way, i'm not too worried about being right or wrong in the end. If you're right you're right, i'm just following the evidence.
>>77645761
I think the flaw here is you're running away from the Bible because it doesn't make you feel good about yourself.
God is seen as the non contingent ground of all being.
He is not contigent upon the material world and does not abide by its laws.
If the universe present itself as contigent, the question becomes what is the source of creation.
A multiverse is yet another contigency and and not an ultimate source.
The question of why there is a universe in the first place holds sway and i dont think a God is out of the question when it comes to examing the miracle that there is life at all.
>>77645069
> 2) There's a load of evidence supporting the non-theist position.
TOP KEK
get a petri dish... put nothing in it. then conjure up a universe with life in it inside the petri dish... until you do that, you have ZERO evidence supporting the non-theist position
>>77645761
>It might have always existed
you have applied the powers of a god to a material universe.
why is a God magical thinking what you just said not?
>>77646079
What is nothing
>>77640656
everybody knows that the universe was a coincidence, and humanity is a coincidence, and everything we do is a coincidence
They find Her, in some form or another.
>>77645963
No I spent years learning about it and eventually decided that it was obviously a myth, which it is.
>>77646118
You're gonna have to try again with this post buddy, doesn't make sense.
>>77645994
Why does the universe need a cause?
>>77645962
The flood is quite real. You just accepted the cover story for those layers. If you're actually interested. Read a book called Genesis Flood. It is actually the original and prevailing theory of geology. Though they usually dub it catastrophism because they don't want to accept that the data says those layers were put down in a incredibly short period of time and with water on a global scale.
>>77645140
>>77640656
you realize that you can't make excuses for your behavior, that you've only got one life, that happiness is truly what's important, not devoting yourself to a man made religion for promises slipped from the mouths of men.
people who are good because of religion are the worst kinds of people to have around you when survival instincts kick in. These are people who think "oh well i cant kill or rape, then i'll never get into heaven." not because its wrong, but because they miss out on a good goy award.
>>77640656
What happens when OP grows up and realises he's a flaming faggot?
>>77646124
nothing is the entirety of what would exist with no creator force
>>77645425
Some of them literally could not be a coincidence. As in they could not be given a probability and if they could it would be a number like .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%
I'm not going to bother explaining the dynamics because I am not here to convince anyone.
I am simply stating that some of us have experienced "Godly" things that are outside of the realm of anything I believe the be scientifically possible.
For someone to state that I/we have not is as arrogant to us as we are to you.
>>77640656
Comparatively I am a god to you, you fucking peon maplenigger. Now go suck off a dog you fucking degenerate.
>>77646238
You mean you were looking at all the fabrications you could which twisted the raw data to fit what they wanted it to say.
If you were really interested in God. You would go looking and find the information very quickly that there is a lot of evidence for the God of the Bible and only for the God of the Bible.
At the end of the day the reason I came to know God is real is because I looked for Him knowing that it would be like working upstream against a lot of theories using the same data falsely to try and ignore the possibility of God to the most extreme.
I get the feeling if you knew the God of the Bible was real. You wouldn't worship him. Am I right? I think this sums up most atheists.
>>77640656
Punishment of Idolaters.
18
* The wrath* of God* is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickednessp of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
19
For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.q
20
Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made.r As a result, they have no excuse;
21
for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.s
22
While claiming to be wise,t they became fools
23
and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.u
24
Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts* for the mutual degradation of their bodies.v
25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.w
26
Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
27
and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.x
28
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.
29
y They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite.
>>77646185
Yes , but we shouldnt call it a coincidence , as people attach to coincidences a magic feeling , as if they are acts of god.
Our perception of god is largely limited by the physical boundaries we interpret as the universe.
God is not a metaphysical being.
"God" is the essence of life, the spirituality of prayer, and similarly to time, present but non existing.
The belief there is one "God" is human perception in the wake of overwhelming cosmic power that unites us all, no matter in which way we worship it, or what we call it.
>>77646238
does it not strike you as a miracle that the universe has always existed?
do you believe in miracles or does everything have a rational explanation?
>>77644072
>id is fucking kfag
K, fag.
>>77646578
No anon, it's very obvious that the bible is just a myth and our modern science is constantly uncovering information that discredits the bible.
>>77646799
It is not against the laws of physics, does not require bible magic at all.
>>77646679
See that OP. That's you. A fool. Someone who can plainly see the world is a ruin filled with all manner of evil and you say, "But there is no God".
You've made yourself wise in your own site to deny the absolute truth.
There is a God, and all knees will bend on the day of his triumph. Meditate on this and seek forgiveness.
>>77646721
happy accidents?
>>77640656
You stupid fucking leaf
>lol wheres my evidenc
>you cant gib evidence so therefore nu
You act like people are getting up in your face and shoving a bible down your throat. Christianity is not provable, but you act like by believing that theyre 'claiming' that it is. Nobody will ever know if its real or not, AND IT DOSENT FUCKING MATTER. Western society was build on the ideals of christianity, we would be NOTHING without religion. Suuure, nobody can prove god exists, but you obviously cant get it through your syrup clogged brain just how healthy Christianity is for society. Failing to see that, you run around like the autistic leaf you are going LOL RELIGION ISNT REAL WAKE UP SHEEPLE.
>>77646289
How did plant life live underwater for a year, how did all of the varying species of life branch off within such a small amount of time, where did all the water go that reached five and a half miles, how did all of the animals fit on the ark and how did they survive a year in a boat
I could go on.
Atheists have no proof that there is no God, and Christians have no proof that there is. It all boils down to faith.
Grow up.
>>77646495
Argument from ignorance.
>>77646843
>Insults
>>77646874
>Baseless assumption
Read a book called God Has Spoken. The Bible in 24 Hours or Genesis Flood. Or if you can't read. Try Creation.com.
>>77646940
See above if you are actually curious and are actually searching for God. This conversation is pointless unless you actually want God in your life.
>>77646874
bible magic is turning water into wine
your magic is a universe that eventually ends up creating life, and has existed for ever and always
now THAT is magic
>>77647130
>read a book or check a website that's wrong
Lol no. How about you try defending your assertions that magic is real.
The flood has a real life natural explanation. The Younger Dryas impact and the meltdown of the glaciers at the end of the last ice age flooded the planet.
>>77646911
no mistaskes , just happy accidents.
>>77646874
>It is not against the laws of physics
Laws themselves do not create anything, they are merely a description of what happens under certain conditions.
You have confused law with agency. Asking someone to choose between God and physics is a bit like someone demanding that we choose between aeronautical engineer Sir Frank Whittle and the laws of physics to explain the jet engine.
>>77647130
I want proof. It's pretty simple.
>>77647004
argument from logic
your argument is completely illogical.
>>77647296
Avoidism.
>>77647270
Once again anything you say could be used to defend literally any creation myth and it would be just as stupid. Just because you can't wrap your head around the idea of the universe always existing doesn't mean others are incapable of doing so.
>>77647332
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Knock yourself out.
>>77647372
>"I don't know how we came to be, and scientists cant figure it out so must be God"
>>77647373
Lol I'm not the one who reverts to glorified fairy tales like a child does.
>>77647329
Fascinating see >>77647413
>>77647413
attacking man made religions is a deflection tactic
this isn't about the validity of christianity or islam, this is about whether an eternally existing universe that creates life, with no external influence, is logical
and it isnt'
>>77647422
What am I looking at specifically
>>77647517
>something came from nothing
>the universe sustains itself
>its just coincidence its finite and dying
>entropy only applies when I want it to
>>77647599
Insults.
>>77647658
Videos, websites, tools. Things you might want if you actually were curious about God.
>>77647517
you believe that nothing can create everything, or that a universe can eternally exist, yet gives us evolution and change, without any external influence... something which breaks all rules of physics and logic
>>77640656
You are right, there is no such thing as a god, but there is God.
There is no god, but there God is
>>77640656
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
[Even a] fool, when he hears of … a being than which nothing greater can be conceived … understands what he hears, and what he understands is in his understanding.… And assuredly that, than which nothing greater can be conceived, cannot exist in the understanding alone. For suppose it exists in the understanding alone: then it can be conceived to exist in reality; which is greater.… Therefore, if that, than which nothing greater can be conceived, exists in the understanding alone, the very being, than which nothing greater can be conceived, is one, than which a greater can be conceived. But obviously this is impossible. Hence, there is no doubt that there exists a being, than which nothing greater can be conceived, and it exists both in the understanding and in reality. - St. Anselm
>>77647608
You don't have the information or the cognitive ability to make that decision. I'm arguing against using ancient myths to answer questions about our universe in place of actual scientific knowledge.
>>77647599
>Fascinating
i have presented no more a myth than you do.
when you ask me believe that universe has always existed and that is the only explanation; you are asking me to feign ignorance and not ask why there is a universe.
>>77647773
I'll stop insulting you when you prove that the bible is 100% true.
>>77647898
fine, as long as you understand that you aren't putting forward any argument or theory that supports the concept of no creator, but simply disregarding specific man-made religions
>>77647878
It would of been better without the interpretation of man.
>>77646289
>the flood is quite real
>cover story
top kek this is golden
>>77648127
Yeah anon I'm not claiming to know how the universe began, because no one knows that for sure. All I'm saying is that the answer isn't in ancient Palestinian myths.
>>77648092
I gave you the sources and information is this thread to seek out.
>>77648176
I love you too.
>>77648276
I'm not reading your pastebin, give me one piece of evidence in your own words.
>>77648176
how is that photosynthesis going ??
>>77648414
I'm commanded not to toss my pearls to swine.
>>77648240
>I'm not claiming to know how the universe began
didnt you say that the universe may have always existed?
> All I'm saying is that the answer isn't in ancient Palestinian myths.
I wonder if scientists should have disregarded the theory of the big bang since it was posited by a Catholic scientist as an explanantion for how God may have created the universe.
>>77640656
>>77648240
but you are claiming that the universe can exist without a creator.
this is a religious belief
note your previous comment:
>It is not against the laws of physics, does not require bible magic at all.
this is a religious belief
>>77647659
>something came from nothing
Again, what is nothing
>the universe sustains itself
>its just coincidence its finite and dying
>entropy only applies when I want it to
The earth has taken billions of years to get to this point, just because scientists cant remake everything doesn't mean a God exists. There's no proof for this claim. If there is a God, then it wont bother me one bit. We just have no proof of it yet. The problem is, you cant understand there might not be one and wont entertain any other idea but your own.
>>77648568
>goat herders
>versus Greek Intellectuals and philosophers who debate and invented the original word for atheism- atheos
hmm, whose has more merit- a goat herder or the beginners and progenitors of Civilized society
>>77648504
Lol quite an attitude for a guy who doesn't have any pearls.
>>77648566
>>77648638
I said may, nothing conclusive. There are many possibilities, none of them require an ancient myth to be true. The Big Bang was discovered by multiple people in different ways. It's evidence is real and abundant. The bible's evidence for the supernatural is not
but if god exists, why non whites and jews exist ??
>>77647775
Nobody has ever said nothing can create something. Literally nobody.
>>77648750
>billions of years
I can date anything I want to be as old as I want. All dating is done via knowing approximately the date you're looking for and then using the material with the radioactive decay that matches the date you're looking for. If I used Carbon 14. The earth would be about 6000 years old. The only reason the billions of years came into the picture is because they started using materials that decay slower to date things to accommodate for their hypothesis of evolution.
Its circular.
>>77648365
Me too. I cant have this kind of conversation anywhere else.
Even my grandmother , who was basically raised in christianity , says the important part is the message about love , not the bullshit they added like the flood , virgin birth , and so on.
Also the bible was probably written by some sandnigger hoping to make a bunch of money reading his story to fuckwits and then it started an entire fucking cult.
The only cover story here is the bible itself.
>>77648817
Your attitude hasn't been one of someone who is seeking God. There is no point in telling someone about God if they don't want him. They'll go to hell either way. Its better for you to be in ignorance.
Instead I opened the door. You have books, websites, tools, videos and more if you want to study.
>>77640656
What happens when you grow up and realize there is?
>>77647775
big bang theory doesnt state that something came from nothing- it merely states that once the universe was in a highly condensed highly heated and pressurized form. Then expanded out
>yet gives us evolution and change
in the grand scheme of things you are just a bag of chemicals that expels and takes up chemicals. Weve observed this phenomenon in none life too
not nothing
>>77640656
The White Race is my God.
Anglican church needs to be reformed again. Kick out the women and gays, and get rid of the evangelical strain. If all anglicans were like the high church ones, it would be much more attractive. But england is not taking it's faith seriously and is using it to push libreal ideology it's sickening.
>>77649012
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Up to you but its a resource if you're curious about those things.
>>77647773
Biased information to support your claim, which hasn't been put into scientific scrutiny. Unless you're going to claim there's some conspiracy against theists, you're going to have to eventually admit what you proposed in the pastebin means nothing. I'll look through it, I'm sure I've seen a large portion of it already.
>>77649186
I would humor the possibility if you were at all capable of arguing for it. Like many other christcucks you just post links to youtube videos and pseudo-science that you yourself can't explain so you rely on con-artists that herd sheep.
>>77648817
Th western creation myth credits one source of creation. There are many other creation myths which posit a cosmic struggle or some parable that relates us to this struggle.
Christianity in giving us the the one source of all being who is life and created all things visible and invisible; gave us the building blocks of greater scientific answers.
Wisdom is found in much which you ignore or disregard.
>>77648999
Blatantly false pseudo-science. Try learning something that requires that you didn't flunk high school algebra.
>>77649327
I dont want additional detail. The Bible itself is quite enough evidence to me.
>>77649318
That is what you get when you allergorize the bible and treat it as moral "guidance" to be listened to whenever you feel like it. Then allow false theories like darwinism and the filth that followed it and all its false assumptions to rule societies conscious.
>>77649418
>ancient people made up stories to explain things they didn't understand
It's literally a routine brain function to try and explain things whether or not you have the information to do so. You ever see a kid make up a story to explain something they don't understand yet? You're doing an evolved version of that.
Anyway I'm not wasting anymore of my Friday night on 4chan, have fun believing in ancient Palestinian fairy tales. I'm sure it helps you with something.
There is only one God.
>>77648817
>>77649418
But you seem to say science can answer all these questions or most.
I would not look to science to explain why things are the way they are, only how.
What is the diffrence between why and how? How does a kettle boil water? why does that kettle boil water? All i want is a cup of tea.
>>77640656
if theres no God then how can you explain these dubs?
>>77649346
>I'll look through it, I'm sure I've seen a large portion of it already.
Thanks.
>>77649346
To me the theories you put your faith into are biased as well.
>>77649351
>more insults
Insincerity and insulting others isn't the path to a conversation with anyone.
>>77649501
I learned that piece of information when I was an atheist. Richard Dawkings own book on Evolution taught me that. I remember him saying just because it looks like its been created we must constantly remind ourselves its not and also said that he will work hard to twist the data to fit his godless world.
Really instills faith in a universe created from nothing. Sarcasm.
>>77649520
Biblical illiteracy could be over in your life but its all up to you to decide.
>>77649811
PRAISE KEK
R
A
I
S
E
K
E
K
>>77650106
>Biblical illiteracy
You make it sound like a bad thing.
>>77650106
The reads are interesting at least. Presupposing God in these writings seems incredibly biased, though.
Theories can be tested and proven true or false though. Faith runs untested and is just implied to a point of delusion. Why not put all the evidence forward and come to a conclusion? Nobody needs faith.
It's not about the metaphysical autism of whether or not god exists. It's about the descriptive effects of religion, which are favorable for social cohesion, solidarity and fertility.
Get that through your fedora wearing head.
>>77650280
Presupposing no God is biased and unreasonable or untenable in my opinion but we digress.
Faith of the bible isn't what people are commonly taught even in the churches. What the Apostles taught was that it is faith in a provable truth observable all around us at all times. I took that to heart and started looking.
>>77650280
>Why not put all the evidence forward and come to a conclusion? Nobody needs faith.
Is everything a selfish impulse to you? Is nothing sacred or go beyond your petty self interest? Is love and sacrifice just an expression of a deterministic nature?
>>77650563
Selfish? I'm not sure I understand this. I didn't say a faith in God, i meant faith. The word itself is a useless one to use. I'm not sure why you'd want to believe anything on no evidence. Do you do that normally or?
>>77650496
Why add something supernatural that you cant possibly account for scientifically? It just doesn't make sense. We don't do it that way with anything else, why make special pleading for something we don't know exists? We would get nowhere honestly.
>>77650870
Faith is an act of Trust. If you don't have trust you won't get far in life, this is one of the points of Faith.
>>77650870
>I'm not sure why you'd want to believe anything on no evidence
do you believe that your mother loves you? do you know that your mother loves you? Is love just a known quantity to you?
>>77641213
Stop replying to this leaf. He is brain dead.
>>77650870
Do you know for a fact the sun will be here tomorrow? No, you don't. But you believe it will, because it has done so prior. For all we know it could blow up in the next 15 seconds. But I have faith that it won't.
>>77650987
Prophecy given to the Prophets by God that has happened after it has been given shows that it is untenable to discuss reality without God.
Newton understood those and so scientists today. Energy and the laws that sustain this universe were very finely tuned for our existence at this very point in time. Entropy implies decay and thus evolution as a concept goes against physical laws on its own even if it were true. Order does not come from chaos. Gas does not condense in a vacuum. Especially one expanding and thus stars cannot be born.
I mean this is just basic stuff well understood and well known to be problematic. The formation of our planets alone is a headache. Our moon is a mystery of its own sort. Many theories have come and gone trying to explain its existence and why it blocks out the sun so perfectly. Why it works perfectly to calculate the seasons as God said it would.
At any rate I've gotta go. Sabbath starting. I hope you seriously consider the things I've said with a open heart and go searching.
>>77651567
Great post my man. Other anon, keep an open mind and really think about this.
>>77640656
It makes no difference to me whether God exists. The laws of the bible are a good and moral way to live, going to church provides a good sense of community, and having something to believe in is objectively mentally healthy. If I get to go to heaven at the end of it all, that's just a bonus.
>>77651327
I have evidence to support the claim my mother loves me, and i can test that hypothesis by either asking or doing something to prove it mentally. I'm not sure what you're going for here.
>>77651325
Faith =/= trust. Because I trust my roommate not to kill me when i sleep at night doesn't mean I have faith. I know this analogy is different than a supernatural claim, but I don't really have one.
>>77651537
I do, science has given a somewhat timeline on the sun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun
>>77651567
Again, the contradictions in the bible prove the bible to be an invalid source of information. An omniscient being being represented in a book full of falsities is a pretty obvious issue. You're still implying God right away with the universe being "finely tuned". How do you know? Everything we have points the opposite direction.
Yes, many things have to be what they are for the earth to produce life. It did. So, being honest, lets see what we can observe and test and come to a conclusion.
>>77651837
I have, and am. I hope you're doing the same.
That's not the reason for being Christian.
>>77652481
>I have evidence to support the claim my mother loves me, and i can test that hypothesis by either asking or doing something to prove it mentally.
why do you always have to test whether she loves you when you could take it on faith?
are you so averse to the concept, that you will reduce everything to a cold mechanical function? >>77650563
>>77652481
One last post from me and I gotta go. I figured I might have to explain the Sabbath starts at sundown and ends at sundown lest someone thinks I'm a troll but this works.
I used to believe the Bible was full of contradictions but all that I've looked at are easily explainable if you look at the Hebrew and Greek. Which can easily be done with a free app these days. I went through a phase of trying to disprove the Bibles veracity with sincerity and failed. I wasn't a happy camper to be honest. It meant a lot. It meant I had to change my life completely.
So if you ever want to study the Bible sincerely. I suggest starting off getting a KJV bible and a concordance (or simply get Blue Letter Bible or Bible Sword) and a book called Learn The Bible in 24 hours (There is a video series but it isn't nearly as good as the book). I don't agree with everything in it but it does help explain some of the more complex concepts lost to time and translation.
Hebrew is a very complex language so be prepared to have to learn a little to understand some things.
>>77641505
You can't provide evidence for something that doesn't exist. Its like asking to prove why aliens haven't been discovered; the answer to that of course us because there is no proof of existence. To prove something that doesn't exist is basically proving someone that you don't have any evidence
>>77652526
Already knew it, anon. I'm glad you are being open minded.
>>77644235
How could you know that? You've never shot him. He could be god taking the form of a human. After all he "works in mysterious ways" or whatever the fuck.
>>77653204
God is not here, i cant test it, i will give him the doubt, maybe he let you try in heaven or something
>>77640656
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw-6ToEcirE
Professing Themselves to be Wise
>>77652935
The problem with this point is that this is exactly what I did, but backwards. I saw the proof, looked further into the claims, and realized that they are contradictions. The people I disliked as a christian were the ones who misinterpreted the bible and made it fit their narrative. Pretending verses were meant as a metaphor to do so is dishonest. If you want to claim Noah was nine hundred years old then its fine with me. Everyone has the right to believe what they want. Just dont impose this belief on others and claim it to be the one and only fact in the world. We can study everything and try to understand the world around us, so why not?
Anyways, enjoy your Sabbath
>>77653054
Knew what?
>>77641901
You want to use your senses to prove God,yeah? Our senses are imperfect. If God was to speak to us, would deaf people not believe? What if God we're to appear, would he not exist if the person was blind? If you are in a sensory deprivation chamber, how do you even know you're still alive?
>>77640656
Romans 1
There is a God and you know it
>>77642409
No proof doesn't mean no God, it just means no proof. Don't be intellectually sloppy.
>>77652793
You don't always have to accept it. I'm not sure why that would be needed. I've never had to test if my mother loves me, but if you need to do that you pretty much have your answer already.
Using reason is what we do every second of the day along with understanding how the world works. You don't get these things from the bible.
>>77654185
What anon relayed to you.
>>77654669
Oh. I meant it as "Hope you're seeing the opposing side with no bias as much as i am."
>>77640656
if u want proof
>do you really think that everything from the creation of our galaxy to the evolution of the human happened by chance?
>do you realise that the odds of your creation are so unfathomably unlikely its a mirical
>>77650280
Define evidence? And what kind of evidence would prove God
>>77655111
checked
>>77655111
Proof, if that is more clear.
A non-contradicting text regarding God, things in that text being true and observable/testable for starters.
>>77655204
natural science can only test natural things, so it would be hard to test for a transcendent being
>>77655628
Do you know what a contradiction is?
>>77655747
Yes. Why do you ask
>>77640656
Let's say i'm christian. I follow God's rules, as in, I never steal, kill, commit adultery etc. In other words, I'm a nice guy. And then I die.
Path 1:
When I die, god actually exists. I meet him, he greets me and says to me "nice *highfive* get in here buddy" and I go to heaven.
Path 2:
I was a nice guy during my life but there is no God. Ok. My fate - nothingness but I'm probably remembered has a nice guy.
Now let's do you:
You constatnly say to your friends how God doesn't exist and only losers believe it. You mock God. You act like you are smarter than those who believe. Then you die.
Path 1:
You die and God actually exists. You immediatly go like "oh shit". God stares at you and says "I don't exist uh? down you go" and sends you down to hell. You burn for all eternity.
Path 2
You die and there is nothing. You gained nothing from beeing an atheist your whole life, because now you are dead and you share the same fate as those who believe.
To me atheism sounds like a stupid gamble desu. You have a lot to lose and nothing to win.
>>77655907
So we agree that a contradiction is two things that can't be logically possible at the same time?
Could you show me a contradiction in the Bible?
>>77656038
Stop, I'm a Christian and Pascal's wager is not a Good argument for God
>>77656101
http://ffrf.org/legacy/books/lfif/?t=contra
>>77656299
Could you give em to me one at a time, I can do the same thing you just did
https://carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy
>>77656299
But for the first one, the word in Hebrew is murder not kill
>>77652935
> KJV
this is the version that swapped Jesus being "A son of God" to being "The son of God"
from this point on most of christianity is worshipping the messenger and not the message
most never learn that the name of God is "I AM", most never wake up and realise that you are God, you are IT, you are IDENTICAL with THAT, in IDENTITY with God,
you waste time building a relationship instead of an identity with God
God the Father, relationship
God the Son, relationship
God the Holy Spirit, relationship
relationships that never even approach the ineffable IDENTITY with God, of knowing that I AM God
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s42V8BGBvTk
>>77656204
Why not? i'm not saying true faith isn't ideal - just showing these atheists the logic side of it, since they seem to imply they are very rational and down to earth.
>>77641213
I've observed that there is a God
Seems we're at an impasse leaf...
>>77654289
underrated post.
>>77656697
Read Romans 1
And tell me what "Atheist" really know about their God
>>77656475
Go through them, and find ones you know aren't and we'll discuss it. I don't expect you to go through them all.
>>77657100
Give me the one you have the most trouble with
>>77656800
God made us imperfect, yes. The problem with that idea is that blind people can't see the world but they still understand it. The reason is because we have people assisting other individuals with handicaps and can alleviate their handicap through scientific discoveries.
>>77657215
Does God change his mind? I find this one interesting.
>>77657404
>Does God change his mind? I find this one interesting.
that one is interesting indeed
>>77657551
mmm.
indeed.
>>77640656
Existence itself is God
Fedora BTFO
>>77657404
No he can't, but sometimes God uses words that we can understand to explain something, like when he said Adam where are you, he knew where he was, but by saying that, he showed that he knew where They were and knew where they were hiding
http://carm.org/can-god-change-his-mind
>>77656837
> hey atheist, read what the bible has to say about you
> bet you feel pretty silly now
>>77657881
Yep, what is the problem?
>>77657769
:DDDDD
GOD IS JUST EVERYTHING GUYS. Lolililoll
Mfw God would be a tortilla if you ran out of all other stupid shit to say.
>Please fucking kill me.
>>77658005
God is a tortilla
God is greentext
God is the good, God is the Bad
We call it God because words cannot explain it
even this post explaining God is pointless
>>77657769
Wow... really made me think. I am a #JesusMissile now.
>>77640656
My god is Kek.
![dancers-ankara-turkey_70218_990x742[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/UBdb78M.jpg "dancers-ankara-turkey_70218_990x742[1].jpg")
>>77655628
>A non-contradicting text regarding God
In the beginning there was God,
God decided to play a game
The game God plays is like hide and seek (good and evil, yin and yang, faith and reason, matter and energy)
But there is nothing outside of God, so God can only play the game of hide and seek with himself
None could hide as perfectly as God, at the same time none can seek quite as perfectly as God can
In order to play the game of hide and seek with himself and not get bored, God makes himself forget that he is God
This way God becomes utterly enraptured in his own Game, he thinks it is all for real, he enjoys every conceivable pleasure and experience, maybe hedonism, maybe intellectual wrangling on an internet message board. when he gets bored of pleasure he moves on to adventure, danger, even war and finally surprise, and the ultimate surprise is to wake up and remember that you are God,
The Game ends, The Game is eternal
He hides, He seeks
He Consistently Contradicts out of existence
He Contradicts his Consistency back into existence
Tag you are IT
>>77640656
Already happened.
>>77657849
So his omniscience proves hes not changing his mind in scripture? I agree. The problem with that is his omniscience.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
Epicurus has a point. Purely opinion here, though.
>>77658396
You know he exists Romans 1:18-22
>>77657960
What would you say if a Muslim had you read verses in the Quran insulting Christians? You wouldn't give a single fuck because you're intelligent enough to know that the Quran is bullshit.
>>77658396
>playing hide and seek with an omniscient God
but he knows what happens. Cheater.
>>77658532
Can you define what is evil in your worldview?
>>77657849
>>77658610
Yes it is, are you comparing the Bible to the Quran?
>>77658765
The website can explain it better than I can
>>77640656
>/pol/
>grow up
>>77658712
Murder, child rape, mutilations, innocent deaths, cancer patients, quadruple amputees, blind people who are also deaf, people who get acid thrown in their face, etc. Any and all of the above.
>>77658610
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nNAS0aaViM4
Muslims wouldn't even be criticizing Christians if they understood their religion (which can't be understood because it's a paradox)
>>77659009
By what standard do you call it evil, or is it just your opinion?
>>77658712
I don't see evil being relevant in my world view in regards of the world view of the bible. I'm not understanding his stance on evil allowing itself on his people. Also, if hes omniscient he knows whats going to happen. That removes his free will.
>>77640656
it's not about imagination, it's about creating worth and morality in the absolute truth of nihilism you spoiled brat.
>>77659388
but that's like talking about if he change his mind
he knows what we are going to do, we dont, to us is free will
>>77659230
its a societal standard. We've made rules against people who impose things like this on others. We judge that by what affects others and whether it is their will or not. If God takes a part in doing things like this, he is accountable for his actions.
>>77659230
Deflect all you want. It doesn't change the fact that "god" allows that to happen. So either he condones the suffering of innocents or is powerless to stop it. You just can't refute that.
>>77659637
Just because we don't know doesn't mean we have free will. In that world view, we've already been decided.
![2000px-Endlessknot.svg[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/WlH60SX.png "2000px-Endlessknot.svg[1].png")
>>77658578
1 John 4:8
>>77658645
>but he knows what happens. Cheater.
Behind the scenes yes you do but you are pretending that you have forgotten, but that is not due to be revealed until the end of the play which will never happen and is happening right now
>>77659388
I'm a Calvinist, so I don't believe in libertarian free will, there is choice involved, but it's corrupted by our sinful nature, but God knowing what your gonna do, and you choosing to do it are mutually exclusive, but of course this is the headache stage of discussion about God.
Question back, out of curiosity, would we have free will if we were the product of Atheistic Evolution and our thoughts are the product of chemical reactions l, would we have libertarian free will
>>77659720
So right and wrong is decided by majority rule?
>>77659787
Or he is giving you what you want
>>77659787
>either he condones the suffering of innocents or is powerless to stop it
so which do you do?
Why do protestants believe in faith alone? It says right in the bible that works are important too. (James 2:14-26)
>>77640656
WHEN I FIRST TIPPED MY FEDORA XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
>>77659844
God has the end written, it is already decided, but knowing this condemn you, as knowing God has made everything, you still not accept Jesus as your saviour
>>77660090
I don't know what the fuck you mean, stopping world suffering is not within my power.
Either way, irrelevant. What I do has no bearing on God's actions.
>>77660040
Please elaborate, you are being too retarded right now, even for religious standards.
>>77659931
Context is key, it's talking about people who claim to have a relationship with God ( being a Christian), but they do not display love, than their profession of faith isn't true, God revealed to you himself, but you suppress this truth in your nature,
>>77659937
Again, we've already been decided before we even started. That's not free will. I never understood the point of not having free will due to "chemical reactions" as we make those reactions. Our actions do have reactions in our brains, but we aren't puppets to those "chemical reactions." We produce serotonin when we work out, and makes us healthier and happier. We all don't work out.
>>77660343
You want to do things that go against his moral law, so by giving people over to what they want to do, that allows all people to do what is in their hearts, so the same way you want to sleep with the girl next store outside of marriage, somebody else might want to hang you over a bathtub by hook and gut you. Sin is a terrible thing
>>77659990
Some things are objective, sure. I know we don't agree on some things politically, doesn't mean someone is right or wrong. We just think differently and/or in a situational sense.
Where are we going here exactly
>>77660258
Putting it plainly
If God made man imperfect, and wrote a contradicting text for his imperfect creation, how would he not expect the outcome to be just that?
>>77660289
>stopping world suffering is not within my power.
You are God, so you answer your own question, you are powerless to stop it
>What I do has no bearing on God's actions.
Again, you are God
if you stop defining yourself as being in a relationship with God and instead Identify yourself with God you may find yourself not as powerless as you made yourself believe
>>77640656
“In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by “thou shalt not,” the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by “love” or “reason,” he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.”
― George Orwell, All Art Is Propaganda: Critical Essays
Reformed religion has a purpose. Chill OP.
>>77660687
Ok let's assume for a second that's true. Why does he allow it in the first place? Why not allow the innocuous shit (sex outside of marriage) and prevent rape and murder? Oh right it's hard to prevent things when you don't exist.
>>77660533
But it's the chemical reaction that causes you to want to work out, that makes you work out, this is known as biological determinism, genetics plays a major role in your life, and ad environment to it, and every thought you have and action you take is based on those two things, the idea of libertarian free will is a fantasy, it's non existent in either world view
>>77660722
Is it always wrong to tortoure babies only for the reason of pleasure
>>77660891
God did everything like he wanted, things are happening like he wanted, all our fate is in his hands, the text he gave us is the text we need, he made us like he needed us to be, everything he made is perfect for his plan
>>77660934
I am god? That's news to me. Who the fuck teaches this? That goes against every major religion.
>>77661037
Well we see your presupposition in your Question, so if God does not exist, what is the standard for right and wrong
>>77659937
I'm a dualist and I think that's just crazy notion. Nothing was predetermined or else there would be no point in Jesus and the apostles preaching the difference between the holy spirit and the desires of the flesh. Why would Jesus make the effort to teach us if what you say is true?
I recommend you /pol/lacks to read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. It covers the topic pretty well without going turbo fedora.
>>77661340
To demonstrate all aspects of his character to his creation
>>77661196
>Who the fuck teaches this?
Literally Satanism, under varying names
