Amerifats will defend this
Our government fails horribly at running their own departments and you think its wise for us to be totally depandant on them for healthcare?
Worry about your own country horsefucker
>>77380688
just another piece of freedom canucks will never have :^)
Nobody is going to defend shit because nobody thinks our health care works.
Fuck off, leaf.
>>77380688
He deserves it for white knighting
>Be American.
>Go anywhere.
>Get shot.
>Go to hospital.
>Become bankrupt.
>>77380688
You're SO RIGHT I would much prefer years-long waiting for transplants and major procedures instead of paying then and getting them done
>>77380959
The government wouldn't be running the hospitals you dumb fuck. They would be footing the bill. Kill yourself.
>>77380688
Before Obamacare insurance companies charged my family less for coverage. Since it's enactment, they have all raised their prices by a significant amount, because it has become a much more inelastic good, due to it being mandatory. Textbook example of cronyism ruining America.
>>77380688
>'system'
Commies will defend this.
>trying to defend a girl
His own fault 2bh.
>>77380688
It's broken by design, this way the insurance company and health care industry can fill their pockets. They are also the larges lobby for congress.
>>77381427
I don't think you know how NHS works. The government would indeed need to run the hospitals in order to maintain proper oversight.
>>77380688
Trump wants to establish a healthcare system like in Germany which is an ok-healthcare system.
>>77381879
Pretty much. Hospitals themselves don't actually make much, but insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies roll in the dough.
Same as the NRA being a front for gun manufacturer lobbying more or less
Remember, in burgerland it always comes down to the holla holla get dolla
>be European
>die waiting to be treated
>>77382164
It's OK, just take these pain pills for your fatal illness and go home. Your surgery is scheduled for October 2018
NO FREE LUNCH
O
F
R
E
E
L
U
N
C
H
>>77380688
It is honestly too expensive. It's just retardedly expensive.
>>77380688
Our system is flawed, I will not deny that.
But do you think """free""" healthcare is a good solution?
Why doesn't the government instead look at ways to reduce costs and prevent hospitals and big pharmacy from butt fucking patients?
Why is a surgeon refusing anyones insurance
pretty sure an accountant somewhere is actually doing this
>>77382635
In network vs out of network insurances.
>>77380688
Its either he pays it or i do. I'd rather he pay it m8. We've already seen how terrible a universal health care system for america would be. Hell the attempt wasnt even close to fitting the definition of one. I cant imagine how much of a disaster a true attempt would turn out to be.
>>77380688
I do not defend this.
t. Poorfag who would love to mooch off the system.
>>77381427
>they would be footing the bill
>using taxpayer money to do so
>we the public would be footing the bill
Yeah no keep your commie shit.
>>77382164
People's queue would be prioritized by how urgent their care is.
To say people die while waiting is plain dishonest.
>>77380688
How about we stop limiting the number of medical schools?
>>77380688
Aah i still remember those times as a kid when i had to go to hospital (i had asthma and a lot of broken bones from time to time).
>Remember son, you cant breath
>but mom im feeling better
<kicks in the back
>You, Cant, Breath,
I always got first in lines and quickly out of hospital. Thanks mom :3
>>77380688
Couldn't he call another surgeon or hospital to see one who would accept his insurance?
>>77381257
>>77383547
So you happen to fall under the "not immediately lethal but will die in the near future" tier. People needing immediate care will constantly be pushed ahead of you until its too late for you. Its simply a reality of a system like this.
physicians dont refuse insurance
>>77383950
Yes. Thats what they're conveniently leaving out. If someone doesnt provide a service, you find someone that does. His insurance wont be universally denied by every hospital. If it were, that insurance provider wouldnt be able to stay in business.
>>77384513
That's how free market works right? Also if someone needs a surgery to save his life and the surgeon "doesn't accept his insurance" how does that work?
>>77384513
>>77384879
its more likely his insurance requires prior auth, and given the fact that the surgery wasnt done while he was inpatient its probably cosmetic and not necessary and their medical director wont sign off on it
>>77385265
Are all "cosmetic surgeries" so fucking expensive?
>>77383547
>To say people die while waiting is plain dishonest.
it happens
>>77385393
prices in the us are inflated, often by orders of magnitude as a result of a death spiral with many moving parts too complicated to explain on a /pol/ post. if his insurance would provide authorization the surgeon could expect a couple grand in remittance if commercial, or a few hundred bucks if its government sponsored (medicaid, medicare, tricare)
>>77386112
No I'm talking specifically about cosmetic surgeries.
>>77380688
"They didn't take my insurance" is code for "I didn't have insurance". Which I would bet is because the person in question is an illegal immigrant
>>77385265
Thats the fucked up thing about surgeries that involve the face. My lower jaw stopped growing along with my skull when i was 12. It would've been a $15k operation to split and lengthen my jaw but since it wasnt correcting a medical issue its viewed as cosmetic and therefore a no-go.
>>77386454
they can be, depends on what he needs. if he had a broken jaw it might be misaligned so he'd need major surgery to repair it.
>>77386832
Also he could just not pay the bill and nothing happens but his credit score takes a hit for a while
>>77381427
The government runs and foots the bills for VA hospitals.
That alone is reason enough to keep them the fuck out.
>>77385393
It's still surgery, anon. Fucking up can severely and permanently disfigure someone, but also still kill them as well.
>>77380688
Get a job that provides medical insurance.
I'm 20 and get to enjoy the fact that my father wasn't a degenerate and got a job with health insurance that I'm still under.
I'm sorry you/your parents were low life losers.
>>77386832
maybe because he broke his jaw in an altercation he could have easily avoided by simply not participating he wasn't covered
>>77387346
Does it run out at all? My fathers insurance would've dropped me when i turned 24 but i've already gotten a comfy job with benefits a couple years before that.
>>77386984
holy shit, post pic of jaw line
>>77387593
I dont have the ability to do that at the moment. But i'll tell you this: look at your fingernails excluding your thumb. From cuticle to the tip of the nail is how far offset my bite is. Not to mention my lower jaw also being narrower than normal so i get to enjoy biting my tongue and insides of my mouth alot.
>>77387579
24 or 25. But I'll be working as a teacher or in the military before then so I'm pretty comfortable.
>>77387942
Based. Good luck out there.
>>77380688
B-but they have to have insurance becuz Obamacare, HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN I WAS TOLD THIS ISNT POSSIBLE THANKS TO BLACK PRESIDENT1!!
>>77380688
Do you want to hear a joke ?
American healthcare system.
>>77388756
What makes switzerland special enough to deviate from the average as well? I know why america's health care is shitty but i didnt expect a euro nation to be that much higher than the average.
>>77388756
This is less because of the business and payment structure and more because americans are extremely fat and unhealthy.
Also because of nationalized healthcare systems cutting corners. For example, in much of europe, older women can only get a mammogram once every 3 years rather than yearly.
>>77380688
considering me going to the hospital more than once a year is incredibly rare why should I have to pay constantly for other dumb fucks surgery? Plus you can just find a job that gives health insurance
>>77380688
probably had some government insurance plan
top lel
>>77381427
>government paying for something it doesn't own/control
>implying the point of paying for it isn't to gain control/ownership over it
He relaxed
>>77388756
americans are fat and we have too many government regulations. also unlike those socialist shitholes, we can't be refused treatment if a government review board decides we don't "need" it
>>77388756
Our healthcare is objectively the best in the world. We have cutting edge techniques, medicines, and surgeries available on demand, that's why our survival rates are consistently the highest and why our spending on healthcare is high as well.
Nevertheless, we could see many more options for lower-class Americans if we broke the grip of the AMA on the medical sector and deregulated key areas. But the answer isn't socialized Euromedicine, three year waiting periods, and 52.8% survival rates.
>>77390468
>have health insurance
>go to need it
>surgeon refuses to take it
>forced to pay out of pocket
>lol u had some government insurance it doesn't count
>>77380688
>whiteknighting sluts
should have had better insurance.
American healthcare service is the best in the world. It should certainly cost more than everywhere else, but probably not by this much.
>>77384085
out network they do. people on medicare or medicaid have to stay in network to recieve the cheap or free health care and thats good but sometimes those doctors are cheap for a reason. For small shit its ok but for surgery its big problem.
>>77390903
>surgeon refuses to take it
Then you go to one that doesn't hate guaranteed money.
>>77390800
>we can't be refused treatment if a government review board decides we don't "need" it
this is true
I family here in Europe (I think it was UK) was denied of cancer medication even when they were prepared to pay it out of their own pockets because they board decided is was not "cost-effective"..
>>77390855
>those piss poor UK survival rates
>>77390800
>americans are fat
yes
>we have too many regulations
how are we gonna stop people from being fat then? Capitalism inherently causes degeneracy like obesity.
>>77390855
>Be in europe
>Get cancer
>die
>>77391290
Similar in the US where a health insurance company can just deny your claim because they can and not because it's not under your contract
Mvp used to deny people instantly on every claim so they could make more money not having to pay out to people hoping they would shoo away if they didn't submit the claim again
>>77391573
>how are we gonna stop people from being fat then?
We don't. What we do, is stop paying for it. If you don't have a signed document that you aren't obese (or alternatively, a low percent body fat, for athletes), then you don't get your bennies.
>>77387134
But there must be some tricks on how to get a cosmetic surgery at a decent price, otherwise the market wouldn't function.
>>77380688
If he had a gun he wouldn't have had to get that close. thereby preventing the pussified response to being punched.
>>77380688
Kill yourself mudslime leaf filth
>>77391882
i ain't disagreeing with this but i see this being some sort of discrimination crap.
>>77383976
holy mother of kek
>>77392206
Probably, because people are too fucking stupid to realize that your body weight is basically entirely determined by how tall you are and what you eat.
>>77390855
>muh cutting edge
Prostate cancer is one of the less lethal, cancer, the more you age the more you have a propension to develop one and so dying in the interval, that is easliy explainable by the superior life expectancy in most western Euro countries (2 to 3).
Source: I'm a med student.
In the other domain we do as good as you in France will spending 2 times less.
You are simply scammed by pharma companies and the patents, your state does not negotiate the price of drugs distributed in the country and so you are buttfucked by both insurances and drug sellers.
>>77392824
we can't negotiate shit because of the FDA and all these other fucking regulatory bodies. the solution is LESS government, not more, you fucking cuckold
good job handling your mental health crisis by the way
http://www.economist.com/node/14588104
Another thing for you.
The best healthcare system is a public/private mix:
- where doctors can practice either in hospitals or in private
- where the state reimburse a part of the care and the private insurance the rest
- where the state negociates the authorization to commercialize a drug on the market in exchange of a fair price
This force the state to take massive part in prevention actions too because that makes it save money.
Health is not your "everyday business", if you let people sick or don't heal them enough you are losing economic power by attrition.
I think there is a lot of thing US does better than Europe but your approach on healthcare is dogmatic.
Healthcare is just like army, it works better when it is centralized and supervised by the state.
>>77394194
>Healthcare is just like army, it works better when it is centralized and supervised by the state.
False. There are no benefits to state control or oversight on healthcare, only penalties. The dead-weight cost of government bureaucracy alone is enough to recommend against it. A single payer system (i.e. a government monopoly on healthcare) will produce the same thing that our government schools produce: a bad product at a high cost.
>>77393157
Without the government regulations you'd get denied for having a pretty existing condition
And throughly if you got sick, lost your job and insurance then tried to get insurance again you'd be denied because your sickness is preexisting
>>77392007
The trick is to get government health care. They pay a set rate for procedures, generally much less than what private insurance or uninsured people pay.
Unfortunately unless you're old, disabled, in the military, a veteran, or one of a certain type of government employee you do not get that sweet ass insurance. Still have to pay into it, but you don't get coverage.
>>77395150
That's nonsense. You might not qualify for every insurance plans, but that's because some are highly selective. There is a market for insuring people in poor health. They pay higher premiums, just like high risk drivers pay higher auto insurance premiums. That's how the market works. You can't have something for nothing, and if you need more healthcare, you should have to pay more. Period.
>>77395150
In fact your HMO would drop you if you suddenly became too expensive for your liking
>>77393157
>muh free market
You are the one cucked in the process retard, pharmaceutics company are thrustingtheir big balls in your throat and you are here asking for more.
That's why you pay your drugs sometimes 10x more than the rest of the developped world.
But continue to spout your simplistic memes instead of using critical thinking, in the meantime I will not have to sold my house if me or my child have an accident or become sick, I bet you can't say the same.
The FDA does not regulate price and your goverment totally fail in an area they should protect their citizens.
>>77395135
>our government schools produce: a bad product at a high cost.
Our schools are absolutely fantastic if you exclude the dindus who wouldn't learn a fucking thing at the most advanced private school anyway.
>>77395341
It's not nonsense
Before Obama care 2014 you'd be denied every time for having preexisting conditions. This was one of the biggest issues of having the losing insurance
This is a scam, it's obviously so the details can get Transgender surgery. If you need surgery in America you get it and pay later.
If u r chopping dick off that's elective and not covered.
Cap this truth
>>77380688
His fault for not having health insurance, fuck it is even against the law.
>>77395865
The artiest says he had insurance but was refused
>>77395419
>That's why you pay your drugs sometimes 10x more than the rest of the developed world
That's because of the FDA cucklord. All this regulation and red tape that's required to bring a drug to market in America is passed on to the consumer. All those fucking triple blind studies and certifications cost money, and the end consumer foots the bill. Abolish the FDA and drug costs would drop overnight.
Look up compound drugs, you faggot. These are drugs composed of ingredients that have individually been FDA certified, but which do not have to go through separate certification to be sold in America. They retail for literal pennies.
>>77395489
this is false. inner city schools fail everyone, white, black, latino and asian. the teacher's unions have destroyed education in this country.
>>77395929
Cuz it's really to get Trans surgery
It's devi-ever all over again
>>77395554
[source needed]
The reason so many health insurers refuse people with preexisting conditions is because the existence of medicare/medicaid prevents them from charging competitive rates to insure these people. It's not even worth doing business with them.
>>77396312
Why do I need a source to an issue that was so prevalent before it was illegal?
The Obama care act of 2012 specifically outlawed the dirty act of denying someone for having a preexisting condition
http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/about-the-law/pre-existing-conditions/index.html
>health insurance companies can NO LONGER DENY YOU FOR HAVING A PREEXISTING CONDITION
>>77395135
Of course there are, who remains the big boss of the market ? The State.
If the State denies you the authorization to sell your patented drug on the market because you set some crazy profit rate you are totally fucked, especially with the US, which sane company will say to the FDA:
"Hey you don't want to let us commercialize this drug we spent years of research and billions to develop because you don't approve our 600% profit rate ? So go fuck yourself."
No, they come back to the table and just lower their prices,
It is a form of protectionnism just like any other, but instead of protecting your steel industry you protect the health of your citizens.
Drugs and cares are not a random product, you don't choose your treatment like you choose a car or what you will eat at lunch, the treament chooses you.
The fact that we talk about some very high end technology plays a huge role in that too, for a disease you have maybe two or three competitors in the best case, not much, they are close to a monopoly situation.
>>77383547
Socialized health care is alright for most things, but it totally drops the ball on surgeries and is an unmitigated disaster on time sensitive treatment like cancer, this is all due to it always getting overburdened by the dregs of society who can't even take care of themselves.
>>77396656
Yeah, great fucking move Obongo. They can't deny you anymore, so they'll just jack up everyone's rates to deter shit applicants from getting on their insurance.
Well done.
>>77396021
> All those fucking triple blind studies and certifications cost money, and the end consumer foots the bill. Abolish the FDA and drug costs would drop overnight.
Yeah, let's flood the market and inject some badly tested substances and shit on the scientific and safety standards, these scientists are silly guys we should not listen, I'm sure the patients and doctors around the world would be super happy to do that.
I propose that we abolish all the safety standards fucking everywhere, it will diminish the cost of everything, people will work in dogshit first industrial revolution conditions while work-related deaths/injuries will explode but hey, who cares, at least things will be cheap !
>>77397592
Nice goal post shift
Thanks Obama I'm alive today because before the Healthcare companies had denied me because of my type 1 diabetes for years. They denied me because I was born with it and my dad changed jobs and changed insurance and then they didnt want to cover my "preexisting condition" and told me to pay out of pocket for my drugs and insulin
>>77395489
While claiming that government schools are equal to private schools, you specifically mention "the most advanced private schools" as an example of institutions where tremendous advancement occurs compared to public ones.
Look up the graduation rates, employment after graduation, and costs of private schools VS public ones. You can even compare 100% white schools if you want, the difference is massive.
>>77396788
>Of course there are, who remains the big boss of the market ? The State.
maybe in your pisshole welfare state, but it isn't like that in all countries. Take Hong Kong, Singapore, Estonia, etc. Minimal government control over private markets, and it works.
>>77397687
The point, you stupid fuck, is that all that red tape costs something, and the reason we do such exhaustive, repetitious testing of new drugs isn't for the sake of safety, but for the sake of giving the FDA bureaucrats work. We can have private testing and safety standards, but what we don't need is a massive government bureaucracy jacking up the costs of drug making by 7000 percent. And the punchline is that their safety guarantee is a joke. Drugs get recalled all the time after being certified.
>>77397907
It's not a shift at all you massive faggot. Health insurers don't want these people. You take away the power to deny bad applicants, and the insurers just raise their rates to deter these same applicants from signing up. So now those applicants are in the exact same place they were before, and the healthy insured people are paying more than ever.
GG Obongo no re
>>77380688
>Shillary supporters will defend this
ftfyf
>>77399246
>It's not a shift at all you massive faggot
You literally shifted from
>Thats not real
>umm source
>wow thanks obama for making my rates go up
>no I swear I didnt shift my narrative
Your rates didn't go up in 2012, your rates went up in 2014 when the second half of the obamcare went in.
It was completely wrong for healthcare companies to deny people who acquired insurance after getting a disease. Hell companies would deny people with familial genetic diseases because they technically had it before getting insurance.
Hell you switch a job? fuck you you're not covered anymore
>>77400712
You stupid shit
Health insurers categorically denying people with preexisting conditions is a flat out lie. How many people in this country have some sort of preexisting condition? You think NONE of them had insurance prior to Obobocare?
There's no reason that insurance should be offered through employers in the first place. That was a government-caused mistake made during WW2 when wages got frozen. To retain employees, they started offering healthy insurance as a bonus. Today we have this massive fucking mess because of it.
>>77396103
They fail everyone because the teachers can't go two minutes without Jamal "muhfuggin" L'monjello hooting and hollering. It turns every class into self study for everyone else and most kids can't teach themselves.
>>77398936
Selection bias in the students. Government schools take everybody. Private schools take rich kids, who are smarter than average, and highly performing poor kids. Show me a private school that opens the doors for every bix nooding basketball american and still outperforms public schools.
>>77401171
There's competition in the private school market. There is zero competition in the public school market. They have no incentive to improve. They in fact have many incentives to continue failing.
>>77401124
>Health insurers categorically denying people with preexisting conditions is a flat out lie.
prove it
prove that all the people afflicted with preexisting conditions weren't systematically denied coverage for their illnesses. Because all you're doing is spewing a bunch of bullshit with nothing behind it. It wasn't illegal to deny people for preexisting conditions and people who lost or changed jobs or insurers would instantly be denied if they had any long term chronic illnesses like diabetes, cancers, or any sickness they had when switching because suddenly its not the insurers problem anymore.
Sure they had insurance but the insurance would never cover their preexisting condition and only new things that developed under that insurance plan.
And now you're shifting the posts again into "its the governments fault after WWII because they froze wages"
>>77401124
>Health insurers categorically denying people with preexisting conditions is a flat out lie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-existing_condition#Practices_and_effects
>According to the California-based advocacy group Consumer Watchdog, other possible situations falling under pre-existing condition clauses are chronic conditions as acne, hemorrhoids, toenail fungus, allergies, tonsillitis, and bunions, hazardous occupations such as police officer, stunt person, test pilot, circus worker, and firefighter, and pregnancy and/or the intention to adopt.[17]
You could be denied for tons of stupid shit just because you had it BEFORE getting insurance
>>77401124
https://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2015/08/19/why-pre-existing-conditions-mattered-to-millions/
Just more food for your thought that people never got denied for having preexisting conditions.
>>77401565
Oh yes, 3%, such an improvement.
Forcing insurance companies to accept bad applicants has only one real world effect: raising the general cost of health insurance. That's it. They can't discriminate in pricing, so they jack up everyone's rates.
There's nothing wrong with being uninsured. The government should not be able to compel you to buy something you don't want, and it should not be able to compel me to pay for somebody else's insurance. Previously, the insurance companies protected their customers against it. Now they can't.
>>77401904
>>77402053
Nice reading comprehension.
I said that people being categorically denied is nonsense. There were insurers before who would take sick applicants AT A HIGHER RATE. That's the bloody point you twat. Now insurers are being forced to take them, and everyone is paying the higher rate. You can't discriminate anymore, which is asinine. It has destroyed the small market for high risk insurance companies and made it so that only healthcare giants like United and Kaiser can stay in business.
>>77402632
Prior to Obamacare, 14% were uninsured. You think the rate of preexisting health conditions in this country was LOWER than 14 percent? We have a 35% obesity rate for christ's sake.
>>77402632
>I said that people being categorically denied is nonsense.
>A year-by-year analysis shows a significant increase in the number of coverage denials each year. The insurance companies denied coverage to 172,400 people in 2007 and 221,400 people in 2008. By 2009, the number of individuals denied coverage rose to 257,100. Between 2007 and 2009, the number of people denied coverage for pre-existing conditions increased 49 percent. During the same period, applications for insurance coverage at the four companies increased by only 16 percent.
You keep shifting the goal posts to other government shit and keep denying that preexisting condition denial wasn't a rampant systematic problem.
You didn't even look under the huge ass list that would get you denied coverage.
>you can't discriminate anymore
and people get the care and help they need and they aren't dying to needless
>>77402858
34% of bluecross blueshield applicants were denied for having preexisting conditions. So yes that touches your 35% obesity rate
>>77380688
L E A F
>>77403188
Great. Now factor in all the other health conditions people suffer from, and you get something closer to 50 or 60 percent of the populace.
I know right the are better solutions like for example:
A) enslaving the surgeon to lower the costs or alternatively pay every health professional peanuts because fuck your skills and hard stuying
B) making every taxpayer pay for a stranger who got into a fight
Man, its so simple, why are americans so silly?
>>77381514
>Before Obamacare insurance companies charged my family less for coverage. Since it's enactment, they have all raised their prices by a significant amount, because it has become a much more inelastic good, due to it being mandatory. Textbook example of cronyism ruining America.
Before Obamacare, the price of medical care rose so high that nobody could afford it. So they came up with "insurance"
Then the cost of insurance rose so high, nobody could afford it. So they came with medical "discounts" that cost a little less but provided drastically less coverage - it wasn't even insurance.
Before Obamacare prices were uncontrolled. When you don't need medicare, you can be choosy, shop for good prices. When you're sick, you'll pay anything to get better and the prices suddenly rise.
Before Obamacare, medical care was rising 8% a year, insurance premiums 8% per year. Insurance companies spend 30% on heallth care claims, 70% on shareholder dividends. Doctors get rich, hospitals and insurance companies all report record profits.
Managed care HMOs begin to systematically deny claims to boost profits, thousands died from delayed care (death panels). Wealthy doctors start buying up non-profit hospitals and immediately jack up prices
Before Obamacare, there were preexisting conditions - people died every day because they got cancer, but because of an ingrown toenail in 1979, their policies were suddenly canceled.
>>77381514
After Obamacare?
Hospital costs drop (fewer uninsured patients)
More doctors (increased residency slots and student loan forgiveness)
Insurance companies forced to pay 70% to medical care, only 30% profit.
More Americans who only work because of health care coverage can now retire and pay their own solo policy
Health care now is less than $8 a day per American. If you live in poverty, you even get yours subsidized.
Now if your employer is some piece of shit who doesn't provide group insurance for you, then you made some fucked up decisions, but you're not desperate yet. You can still forego the tax break while you find a better job.
>>77380688
Big talk coming from the biggest exporter of healthcare tourists to America in the world
