why
why what
>>77340361
why it exists
>>77340394
idk
>>77340315
Turks.
Turks made the mess, and Americans ensured the mess would last longer than it already has.
>>77340315
What a pretty map. Would be a shame if someone were to CLEANSE it :^)
>>77340564
Fuck, wrong gif!
>>77340315
Comedic relief
>>77340315
Austro-hungarians ruled over it for decades, so people just fucked their shit up and mixed everywhere.
Decades after WW1, when Yugoslavia collapsed and it came time to form new countries, suddenly everyone was fucked as it was a shit sandwich mixture of different ethnicities.
>>77340394
Because the Leftists keep us from getting rid of it? The same as they stopped the Serbs for no good reasons. Hell we should've helped the Serbs instead.
Blood god demanded a sequel
>>77340687
>>77340315
Look how fucking blue Western Bosnia was. If we only got rid of Cazin being green as fuck, we could've connected to Croatian Kraijna nicely.
>>77340315
´
why shouldnt it exist?
>>77341910
because Bosniaks are minority there. IT should be just divided between Serbia and Croatia and all muslims should be Srebrenica'd
>>77342011
We need more people with this attitude in all three of the countries for this to work.
>>77340315
ETNIČKO ČIŠĆENJE 100%
RASTURI NACIJU 100%!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn-11IZX9o0
>>77342107
Based Cigani defending white, christian Serbia !
Croatian commonwealth of herzeg bosnia
>>77342638
dem borders are messed up :DD
>>77342638
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""croatian"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
The Balkans are cancerous. Nuke and repeat.
>>77342698
pls no fighting
>>77342429
Some Cigani are actually pretty based and hard working people !
>inb4 cigan detected
>>77342899
t. poo in loo islander
>>77343002
They really do work hard to cut those cables and steal some extra metal, I agree.
why not just turn the jihadists into Croats so we can set up a good border and be neighbors?
we all know they're ashamed of their jihadism but don't have an alternative
>tfw ethnic Serb from Bosnia who immigrated to Australia at the age of 9.
Not sure if a good thing or bad, but I had no say either way.
>>77343434
From what place did you emigrate?
>>77340315
LEBENRAUM
>>77343003
I think you've gotten your flags and geography mixed up.
>>77343555
Mrkonjic grad, you can see it in the blue part but pretty close to croat and muzzie area. Only had 1 muzzie girl in my class when I went to school there.
>>77340654
This wasn't caused by kebab removal, but rather by commie policies that resettled Serbs croats and bosniaks into bosnia to destroy nationalism and ethnic lines. And the map only shows dialects, which don't mean that much since every ethnic group has speakers of every dialect.
>>77343912
The dialects DO give a good indication of what happened when the Turks started pushing, though, which was all I was trying to achieve here. Comparison with the OP map is enough to demonstrate that many dialects are spoken by several groups together.
The Communists did very little to alter the ethnic situation really, though. Maps of 1900 and 1990 show very little major change at all.
Ultimately, I blame the stupid Habsburgs for annexing the place whole, instead of only taking Croat areas to add to their prior Croat holdings. Last thing that stupid empire needed was pissed off Serbs in it. If the Austrians had done/encouraged/supported pic-related in 1878-1908, the situation would have settled perfectly by now.
>>77344557
>only taking Croat areas
Making it a little clearer that Serbia has not annexed ALL of Bosnia. This way, Austria could have dealt with the Muslims in the far western tip, probably Croatianising them, absorbed most Croat areas in Bosnia, making their coastal territory have a deeper hinterland, while annexing a minimum of Serbs. And the Serbs would have had less need to go looking for territory in the south, getting involved in Shiptar mess.
>>77344557
>stupid Habsburgs
Kek'd a little
>>77345796
Franz F.: "Also, meine Liebschen, I know was zu do today! Let's go for an open-top car ride through this city in hostile Slavonic territory we recently annexed!"
- genius. Karl V's days were another matter, obviously. I'm talking anything after the fuck up of 1848.
>>77340892
"Muh 1 million Bosniaks" is good enough for a reason
>>77345976
Well there were 2 other assassins that failed to act +1 that had a narrow miss. He still chose open top ride.
Wouldn't have gotten killed if the driver didn't take a wrong turn.
>>77346202
Dickhead shudda stayed at home, drawing up plans for Croat autonomy.
>>77346133
Islamised Slavs are found in the borders of modern-day Serbia, and in Bulgaria. In neither case do they represent a problem. The Bosniak "nation" is a modern creation. Had they been dealt with sensibly in the 1800s, we wouldn't even be hearing about them today. They are just Serbs and Croats, really, and with the right incentives could still remember that. I even know some Bosnians of Muslim origins who have readopted a Croatian identity.
>>77343314
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97p-yaKmjZs
>>77346133
I bet you are a muslim
>>77343831
Malaysia
- shitty? check.
- muslim? check.
- loses its planes? check.
fuck of island mudslime
>>77348165
>Malaysia
>island
:D????
And hey. Weren't your ancestors ruled by Turkroaches at some point? And by ruled I mean raped.
>>77347174
>cant determine sarcasm
Srbin yuo habe fail me
>>77348441
No, there were not. They actually stopped the Roaches from entering Yurop proper.
>>77342638
Eugh, no. We need more realistic borders.
>take the encircled areas and relocate all the Croats outside them in
>>77349111
>relocate all the Croats outside them in
BTW, the territory between your two marked zones is shown as solidly Serb at this point, but it falls outside the territory of Republika Srpska. Does this mean that demographic changes have taken place, or were there other considerations at play here? Is it still Serbian?
>>77340315
>>77349627
Damn, just realized op has put up the map with pre-war demographics
>>77340938
so random question. Who really started this. What I mostly get is that you guys (if you are ethnically Serbian) just don't like the Bosniaks. I live in a town with quite a few and some of them are pretty bad, I admit. I'm not pointing fingers, just let me know.
>>77350101
The entire war was a fuckfest with multiple war profiteers on every side duking it out for clay. People declaring independence and other people not allowing it.
>>77350101
I've been following this stuff on pol and looking into it a bit.
I think what happened was Ottomans (Turks) occupied all Balkan countries then Balkan countries revolted back in 1800s. Some ethnic Turks stuck around which is why there are mudslimes in Bosnia.
Fast forward to USSR days and those same balkan countries are now called Yugoslavia.
Yugoslavia dissolves in the 1990s and ethnic Serbs in what is now Bosnia say fuck you this our (Serb) country, fuck off to Turkey and then they lay siege. NATO and Croatia back Bosnia and the Bosnian-Serbs lose.
I could be missing a lot of information but I think that's the jist of it.
>>77349889
What's the point of bosnia then? Just split it between Croatia and Serbia.
>>77340315
Bosnia to the Bosnians
>>77350618
Nobody wants the custody over the retard kid, Bosnian Muslims.
>>77350618
Bosnians are not ethnically Serbians, Bosnians are Muslim Turks.
Serbs are Orthodox
Croats are Catholic
the Balkans are basically the gateway between Europe and Asia (Middle East) the people there have been involved with some type of war/conflict since the beginning of empire times. There is so much history that to just say ok you guys have this you other guys have that won't work. It's like when the US goes to the Middle East and tries to put people into arbitrary borders ignoring thousands of years of conflict that created whatever the current borders of the time were.
>>77340315
Its just a prank bro
>>77350905
The Croats can babysit the Bosniaks.
>>77350618
That would, and SHOULD, have been the natural outcome, only the World Policeman decided that you can't go around changing international borders... except when you can! Big, bad, old-fashioned divide and conquer. America didn't want a strong Serbia, potentially acting as a Russian ally.
Best division of bosnia by far was an agreement made by pavelic and stojadinovic while they were taking refuge in Argentina after ww2. Thats how it should be
>>77350905
>Bosnians are Muslim Turks.
Mate, they're Slavs. They converted for the sake of convenience. They're not Turks, except in a civilisational sense, whereby anybody who converts to Islam "turns Turk", as our ancestors put it.
>>77350614
Not Turks.
It was the Turkish effort of islamization and cultural assimilation that created the basis for the Bosniak nationality, but it was actually created as a result of Serbian alienation of non Orthodox Serbs for they were seen as traitors.
In 1861 the Poturice (as they were called) were deported out of Serbia, by Turkey as part of an agreement leading up to Serbian de jure independence. Alija Izetbegovic, the father of the Bosniak "nation" is a descendant of these. People who converted to islam in Serbia were generally prior to the conquest either nobles, petty nobles or merchants, or to put it more simply, rich people who could benefit from access to Ottoman government (The majority of grand Vezirs were Serbs and Albanians). In Bosnia it was easy to convert the peasants because they were heretics (bogomilists), and didn't care much about christianity.
>>77351243
Eminently sensible, and with such a fair division, it wouldn't have been too terrible to leave a few Croats in the Serbian part and vice-versa, to help foster continued fraternal links. Ekh, missed opportunities! (
>>77351243
ftfy
>>77351422
or just exchange citizens, which could take a while
>>77351243
>Dubrovnik
>Serb
>>77351636
Tbh the most serene republic of Ragusa should be independent once again.
>>77351636
>banja luka
>croatia
fair exchange
>>77351636
>>Dubrovnik
>>Serb
*Catholic Serb... ;)
I like how this country creates butthurt by just existing, makes me love it even more.
But to be honest nothing is better than cold war yugo
>>77351859
Have fun with your Tito.
>>77351950
Tito tried to do as Hitler did, unite his people under one race.
>>77352052
No, not even close, King Aleksandar Karadjordjevic tried that, he got assassinated by Croats.
Tito tried to split up the country as much as he could while still keeping himself in control.
>>77350905
They're not Turks nor do they have significant Turkish admixture, if any at all.
>>77352052
The fuck are you on
Socialist Yugoslavian ethnic program was celebrating different nations that made up Yugoslavia as brother nations that should cooperate towards a better future. Ethnic (not political, mind you) decentralization was encouraged, local customs were celebrated and every effort was made to include local languages as official ones. In the army, they had an agreement that each evening a different republic's news programme would be watched, for example.
The program of inventing a Yugoslav race was done in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, before WW2, and it failed painfully because it focused on suppression of local identity as opposed to creation of a supra-identity
>>77352377
this, it was meant to be a good thing but ended a disaster
>>77351290
>>77351316
Ok, thanks for the education. How come Bosniaks tend to look so much different from Serbs though? Almost every Bosniak I've met (probably a dozen or so) has had black hair and while that isn't a disqualification for being white it seems that they look very different from the Serbs I've met who all have mostly had much lighter features.
>>77352634
your sample of 12 serbs and 12 bosnians makes you a scientist now?
>>77340315
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNF-01p8SE0&feature=youtu.be&t=29m55s
I have question to all former Yugos, do members of this band alive? I cant find any info about them in english
>>77351950
Peace be upon him
>>77352634
You get such regional differences in all old European countries. I'm English, and our nation likewise has some darker areas and some lighter. We could say the same for some parts of Serbia, or we could find other Muslim subgroups who are lighter. It's irrelevant, except as a hint to very ancient (prehistoric) population movements.
(But the corruption of the soul that Islam brings can occasionally have its impact on the outward physiology... ;o) )
>>77340315
Because we stopped the kebab removal that was efficiently being undertaken in the mid 90s.
>>77352946
I'm asking a question you dipshit
>>77353166
So Bosniaks are just Serbs who converted to Islam for no reason other than being pussies?
>>77351493
when they were running to argentina they split it up the middle i see, pavelic even gave up south dalmatia if he gets istria and zadar, and serbs lose banja luka... snuff
>>77351636
>Istra
>Croat
>>77352052
>unite his people under one race
>under one race
What ? We are all white race on balkan. Only gypsies and albanians aren't white
>>77353771
Well, not like that, access to Ottoman service meant a chance at education and the good life. Some were also kidnapped as Blood tax (Devsirme ) and trained into the Ottomans most elite soldiers, and the Sultan's personal guard. Another reason would be that they were pretty irreligious to begin with. Bosnia was crusaded by Hungary on one occasion (Bogomilism)
>>77353771
Yes
>>77353771
The Turks didn't force convert much there (that would involve losing the taxation advantage of a large dhimmi population), it was more a question of people desiring certain privileges. There is some idea of intermediate Slavonic populations never having "chosen" whether to be Serbs or Croats in the first place, as these were two very specific political formations that never quite succeeded in expanding as far as they might have done. Consider the Slovenes in the far west - their name just means "Slavs", so you will have had a bit of this all over the Balkans before the competing political identities came along, and were cemented by religious schisms. Peasants often don't give a shit about these matters too. "What are you?" "Somebody from HERE!"
As somebody mentioned above, Bosnia was home to a neither/nor kind of heretical Church at one point, though I suspect this is rather overstated.
Incidentally, can anyone remind me of the name of that Rokeri s Moravu song where all the Jugo nationalities sit at a long table eating?
>>77354512
Fuck off back to stormfront, faggot. Albanians are white.
Deport Alb*anians and Bosniaks to Turkey. Problem solved.
>>77350982
(SOCIAL EXPERIMENT)
>>77354948
>albanian migrant
>>77355484
>Deport Alb*anians
There are a few Catholic ones, particularly in the north-west. These can stay.
>>77354856
that's not how it works, people all over the world always identified with their groups. Take for example Athens and Sparta. People started forming national identities to protect themselves or to invade places
>>77355484
Better solution :
>Ban islam in balkans
>Greeks takes back their lands from Turkey
Problem solved.
>>77355484
It is estimated that at least 2 million Turks are descendants of "Bosniaks". So there's your answer to the question are Turks white?
If Serbia had just declared "Bosnians" to be called "Serbian Muslims" instead of removing kebab, would thath ave worked better?
>>77354126
Istra's predominately croatian, Nikola
>>77355683
My main point is that the Slavonic expansion predated the arrival or formation of distinct Serb or Croat identities. Plenty of people will have just been Slavs, and not felt much attachment to a Serbian or Croatian regime that would advance and retreat along with its political fortunes. As I understand it, both the Serb and Croat ethnonyms imply a Sarmatian ruling class at some point in their proto-history, even. When you consider remnant Illyrian and Vlach populations too, things get complicated and far from as clear-cut as you imply.
>>77355891
That's precisely what happened in the Sanjak, between Serbia proper and Montenegro, though statisticians' anal retentiveness may have let this linger longer than it otherwise would have, to present some potential risk.
>>77352988
>tfw you will never play guitar in between a stream while protected by your brothers in arm side by side.
>>77340654
dude that is a dialect map
Who could possibly oppose this plan?
>>77356662
That's the pre war map, here's the most recent one.
>>77356536
Znam. But obviously, the distribution of Shto dialects gives pretty strong indications of the kind of movements that have taken place.
(I've having a slow day at work today, clearly...)
Same as here, because there's always butthurt people on the other side who claim that just because they had that area once and lost it a few hundred years ago it's still theirs.
>>77359356
Piss poor map. "Magically" the Greek border is a linguistic one too, and it's just coincidence that political attentions of Albanian irredentists are more focussed on what they can rob from Serbs at the present moment... Pure political cynicism.
>>77357003
Fixed it
>>77340315
not a country, neither is ukraine
pretty sure is only social construct
>>77360736
It's always the diaspora
fuckin jew s a. shoulda let serbs finish the job
>>77340315
A stupid leader had blown up his large inclusive nation over his own narrow tribalistic impulses and personal political greediness.
He ended up with a poor plot of land with no access to any seawater.
>>77340315
Aren't serbian muslims known by their own ethnic name? Why is it "moslem" in that map?
>>77360337
It's not a fucking linguistic border you autistic faggot, it shows the spread of Albonophone majority population. Here's a map of 1861 if you want to piss yourself a bit more.
>>77361768
Because prior to 1992 they were referred to as simply Muslim. Yes, Muslim was a nationality back then.
>>77360951
As an Englishman, I commiserate utterly. OUR diaspora is the fucking USA! (Well, it WAS, once, you know what I (((mean))) ...)
>>77355553
>most likely has slobodan's frozen semen in a jar somewhere
Don't you have some sexual deviances to blame Albanians for?
>>77361931
You "people" are so stupid... How can it be Albanophone majority, if it includes the greater part of the fucking Sanjak?!?! Deluded...
>>77361949
Really, you're English.
Well i have to express my respect. You're very educated and learned in the Balkans. How so? Wouldn't expect it from the average Brit. Then again, a lot of things i know wouldn't be expected of an average Serb.
>>77361931
>entire epirus is albanians
lol please kill yourself
>>77362085
Maybe because THE MAJORITY SPEAK FUCKING ALBANIAN?
>>77362201
I didn't design the map faggot, the French did, not to mention Ali Pasha Tepelena had already conquered and Albanified that part of Greece.
>>77362502
>what is north epirus
>>77362198
>learned in the Balkans
Hvala! Ya perevodchik, iz russkogo yazyka, i imam interes vo svekh svyazano s yevropeiskoi istoriei i yazykovenedeniyem.
But I mostly only look good because I stand next to him:
>>77362310
(Novi Pazar majority Shiptar?!?!? Man.......)
>>77340315
it'll eventually fall apart, Dayton agreement only pressed pause and caused a political gridlock lasting to this day
it's not just the best and brightest who have gone abroad but even manual labourers joined them
>>77362720
I know what fucking northern Epirus is and how you faggots shortly established it as a autonomous part that was to be united with your state, however you never, ever, will get a single cm of that area.
>>77362832
I didn't design the map, go complain at the faggots who did.
>>77362502
There are a bunch of maps with different results.
https://content.wdl.org/93/thumbnail/1403113588/616x510.jpg
http://www.bl.uk/britishlibrary/~/media/bl/global/world-war-one/collection-item-images/ethnographical-map-balkan-peninsular3.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Balkans-ethnic_(1877).jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Carte_ethnographique_de_l'Europe_centrale_et_des_%C3%A9tats_Balkaniques_-_La_Science_et_la_Vie_1918,_P.jpg
>>77362832
I could make out what it means, i've never studied Russian formally tho.
Quick question, would you be interested in a youtube series about Balkan history and geopolitics. I will make sure to not be biased. I'm just asking because i've been debating starting it.
>>77363010
>When you live in Dayton and the only reason people even know about us is the Dayton Accords
At least people outside of Ohio know we exist...
>>77362832
>Novi Pazar
I've had the misfortune of passing through Novi Pazar while touring Serbia a couple of years ago, it was during lunchtime and people were out and about, the place looked like Pakistan, noped out of there without stopping
>>77363178
First one doesn't show a date.
Second one is of 1920
Third one is 1977
Fourth one is 1918.
However, a map is not my point, each show territorial changes through history of regions. My point is, if there's an Albanian majority in the area, and Albania is a bordering nation, it should go to Albaina; just like if there's a Serbian majority in the area, and Serbia is a bordering nation, it should go to Serbia; just like if there's a Greek majority in the area, and Greece is a bordering nation, it should go to Greece; And everyone is happy.
>>77363766
1877
>>77363141
If you have time on your hands to post a map, you have time to EDIT the map in paint. ;)
>>77363178
>Quick question
Curious. I wonder what you mean, exactly? Find me here if you want to tell more. (I have a high post count, and my name begins with "O") : http://forumeuropa.net/
>>77361931
yours has no date either
>>77363861
typo
>>77363973
>Center bottom
Gotha: Justus Perthes.
1861
>>77363882
"What's reverse image search?"
http://a142.idata.over-blog.com/0/56/73/94/unitarisme/carte_albanophone.gif
>>77363766
But Novi Pazar is not majority Albanian, it is islamic tho.
>>77363882
Ok. Will do.
I was thinking about making vids like.
Bulgarian and Serbian relations
Hungarian Croatian relations
The origin of the conflict in Bosnia
The roots of the Serbo-Croatian conflict.
I don't intend to speak about the 90s, i intend to talk about how things got where they got originating from the 1800s
Might do a vid about the grand scheme of events leading up to WW1, something like the Origin of WW1.
Serbian relationship with Russia (This might be merged with Bulgaria or WW1, still haven't made a draft for a script).
>>77363178
>would you be interested in a youtube series about Balkan history and geopolitics
ey mate, I'd be interested in that
>>77364116
>1861
>surpasses a 1977 map
wow lad are you serious?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Balkans-ethnic_(1877).jpg
>>77356662
Were your forefathers at any moment in versailles?
>>77364332
>Ok. Will do.
Interesny proyekt! I look forward to hearing more. And yes; the more recent stuff is too depressing, better to stick with the older material.
>>77364520
"Muslims"
Also, refer to >>77363766
>>77364332
Brilliant, call the channel Serbian National News Service and you're golden
>>77364727
The only thing i'd be honestly biased would be the Montenegro vid. Because i do not accept Montenegrin as a nationality.
>>77364520
Thanks.
I'm a bit worried about Serbs, Croats and Albanians in the comments. Yes, even Serbs, because not all Serbs are gonna like some of the things i'd have to say.
>>77363178
>Quick question, would you be interested in a youtube series about Balkan history and geopolitics. I will make sure to not be biased. I'm just asking because i've been debating starting it.
yes
>>77340394
you helped kill hitler
>>77365014
Serbs , Croats, and Albanians already fight about everything so that's nothing to hold you back. Feelings should never stand in the way of objectivity
>>77365014
Honestly, I'd consider it worthwhile even if all it did was to popularise in English the name "Chernogoria". It offends my eyes, seeing the place called in Italian all the time! )))
>>77365350
Thanks for the support.
>>77364980
I was thinking about Balkan + something, insight is already a website, report would be to similar to the Caspian report (which i must admit is how i came up with the idea in the first place, the channel doesn't cover the Balkans)
>>77365713
>Balkan + something
Balkan Background?
Balkan Banter sounds nice, but would probably not be productive! )))
Balkan Back-Story (no, people would mock it as "Balkan Back-Stabbing")
Balcan Basics...
>>77352634
Well based on my anecdotal evidence they look very similar.
I worked with a Bosnian who came over 20 years ago as a refugee. She was almost 6' and white. Turks don't grow that tall
>>77367201
Basics sounds really nice, thanks.
>>77367379
People of the Dinaric Alps are the tallest in the world.
>>77367656
>People of the Dinaric Alps are the tallest in the world.
That's what I've read, she definitely fits the bill. All of the Serbs in the NBA are testament to that too.
>>77368041
>tfw best friend is going to america in august
He got a sports scholarship (for basketball) for some university in Texas. I'm pretty happy for him. Hope to see him in the NBA some day.
>>77354515
can this be that there is a serb that actually knows something about the history of bosnia
>>77368831
Nice to meet you.
>>77368894
So did you guys learn anything about the Kingdom of Bosnia, Tvrtko and his army that he sent to Kosovo? So was he a serb or croat or bosnjanin?
>>77369579
>national identity in the middle ages
>national identity of a ruler especially
Pls. Rulers always picked what helped them rule.
Bosnia was somewhat decentralized and strange, mostly ruled by the council of nobility called stanak (as in sastanak), and there were few kings powerful enough to actually rule eg. Kotromanici. Nobles have been noted as having both Croatian and Serbian names, while peasantry was predominantly similar to Serbs, and farmers were called Serbs (eg, farmers in Serbia/Raska were called Meropah/Meropsi). But it was somewhat tribally divided North West to South east between Serbian and Croatian tribes. It is really hard to talk about nations in medieval times because nationality is a more modern way of determination. Tvrtko flat out didn't care, as he proclaimed himself the Serbian king in an orthodox ceremony, and king of Croats and Dalmatia in a catholic one.
The modern Bosniak identity is a product of alienation of Muslims by both Serbs and Croats. So it is a nationality, but not a very old one. Nationality the status/feeling of belonging to a particular nation. And it's Croatian and Serbian fault that it formed, but what's done is done, it exists.
