Why won't agnostics just admit they're atheists?
>>76795256
Agnostics are psuedo-intellectual, pussy-tier atheists.
They're afraid of offending people, I think.
>>76795256
I thought Atheists = Have no belief; Agnostics = Have belief, but they're not sure in what specifically.
Am I wrong?
>>76795256
As an agnostic, my reason is because I think there is a possibility of deities existing. But science has way more going for it in the proof department.
Other than that, I'll gladly offend anybody and everybody, and I do so every day.
>>76795256
it's an insurance policy because if they are wrong (and they are) God will forgive them, not likely.
>>76795499
Not an argument
Because Agnostics don't have their head up their ass and claim they know what most don't.
>>76795256
>literally fighting over semantics
Fuck off, OP.
>>76795691
No it's
Religion: There is a god
Agnostics: We don't know one way or the other
Atheists: There is no god
>>76795256
Agnostic = 'It's completely impossible to either prove or disprove the existence of a higher being, and any human attempt to claim actual knowledge of divinity is nothing more than pretension.'
I am a Christian Agnostic. I follow Christianity because I believe it is healthy for a nation and peoples require a standard of moral behavior and ethical policy, but claiming that I can actually ever be certain whether or not God exists is insanity.
>>76795743
it is, if you think about it, he's right you now.
We need insurance in case we die and end up in front of God waiting to judge us
>>76795691
atheists believe there is no god, agnostics don't know what to believe
>>76795738
>believing something by will
if this is happening then the person with the "belief" does not actually hold that belief because deep down they know the reason they're trying to force it makes it a false belief
>>76795691
Yes you are wrong
A/thiesm answers the question BINARY "Do you believe in god"
Agnosticism is questioning in your beliefs on the theism question. Its orthogonal to the theism question.
Basically unless you're mentally ill you're an agnostic a/theist.
A/theist - "I BELIEVE there is (no) god."
Agnostic - "I don't KNOW if there is a god."
You can be both at once.
This is why self proclaimed agnostics are pussies; they aren't answering the belief question. They're closet athiests and they know it. We know it.
>>76795846
>>76795691
Because the term "atheism" was hijacked by a bunch of butthurt fatties who turned it into a movement of insufferable cunts whining about religion.
What's it called when you don't give a fuck about God regardless of whether or not he/it/whatever exists?
>>76795256
Agnostics claim you can't know.
But they don't BELIEVE in God. So they're atheists.
Either you BELIEVE or not. There's no middle ground.
>>76795256
Because aside from fedora tipping atheists, everyone knows agnostics are a 3rd category of people who don't know either way.
>>76795256
Agnosticism is orthogonal to atheism/theism.
You can be agnostic and a theist or an agnostic atheist. It simply is a statement about your level of certainty about the topic.
>>76795256
Just because I don't believe in your God doesn't mean I don't think a higher power could possibly exists.
>>76795256
but there are plenty of deities that christians/muslims/jews etc. don't believe in either, i haven't met many christians into allah.
why is there no overlap in those circles?
>>76796175
Apatheist
>>76796097
>atheists believe there is no god, agnostics don't know what to believe
You can't just not have an opinion on something. The human mind creates biases all the time, you cannot escape them.
You have the belief, whichever way it leans, whether you're willing to admit it or not you pussy.
i believe in a god but i don't know which one
>>76796284
I feel this fits me. I don't claim to know or care whether or not God exists.
Here's le trashman on the subject
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTWlQaZ0DWo
>>76796285
you americans never take any logic classes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
![Gnostic_Agnostic_Atheist[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/6a6v5Ud.png "Gnostic_Agnostic_Atheist[1].png")
agnosticism and gnosticism do not directly correlate with atheism and theism.
you can be agnostic atheist or gnostic atheist or agnostic theist or gnostic theist
most people who consider themselves atheist are agnostic atheist.
>>76795256
Agnostic: The question of whether there is a deity is unanswerable. It can not be tested. It is unknowable.
Atheist: I don't believe that there is a deity.
Agnostics know the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Unicorns and Vampires are not real.
But when it comes to the god of the Muslims, Christians and Jews you just have to wonder about the mysteries of the universe.
>>76795256
>>76795499
or maybe they don't think there's much to gain much from needlessly offending people?
>>76795256
Agnostic = Neutral
True atheists believe humans are gods. Fake atheists are just anti-religion.
Deal with it.
>>76795846
I'm gonna go by the definition of the words here
Theist = the belief in the existence of deities
Gnostic = having knowledge
Prefix - a = not
Therefore;
Atheist = Not having belief in the existence of deities
Agnostic = Not having knowledge
>>76796527
Explain how "do you believe in a god" has more than two answers you leaf
>>76796000
>>76796197
You can believe in God and be agnostic faggot. You just claim there is no way to prove God exists. Agnostic Theist
Atheists are mostly fat, balding faggots. Just looking at them made me believe in God. I dont want to end up like them.
>>76795499
Agnostics has nothing to do with intellect, pseudo or otherwise.
It's neither the acceptance nor denial of. It's open-mindedness.
Now you, on the other hand, are a pseudo-intellectual.
>>76796641
Just say you're an atheist. The sort of person who'd get offended by that and that alone is the sort of person you want to offend.
>>76795800
>>76796140
That trip is not getting much attention, bro
Try a Israel proxy bro
>>76796285
>let me tell you what your belief is
oh god, a desktop head shrink
>>76796733
Yes.
No.
I don't know.
I'm not sure.
Maybe but I think I'm using a different definition of god.
I know their is a god, I don't have to believe.
>>76795499
No, there's just a sliver of a chance that there's a Deity that created everything. Until that is proven wrong, we won't change. It's not about offending people, because believe me, I like offending people. It's about being scientifically correct.
>>76796733
Three answers, but two real ones. They are: "Yes", " No", and "I'm a pussy and can't handle giving my opinions".
>>76796902
You're trying too hard.
>>76795256
Belief comes in degrees.
No one who hears a proposition has absolutely no belief in regard to it - that would indicate that you simply didn't hear/understand it in the first place if you didn't.
Saying "I don't know" doesn't stop you from having a belief - I don't know, as a perfect truth, that God is in the heavens, but that doesn't prove any barrier whatsoever to believing He is and acting as if He were.
>>76796733
define god
if you expect a good answer to a question the question better be well-posed
They want their cake and eat it too
>>76797043
Your wrong faggot. I don't know and it can't be proven either way is a perfectly acceptable answer.
>>76796711
So you're being a parrot and repeating everything that person just said, semantically.
>>76796285
You can hold both beliefs. You can believe and hope there is a god but also believe there is no way to prove it or know for sure outside of a genuine miracle happening before your eyes and even then, you might question your sanity.
>>76796218
>You can be agnostic and a theist or an agnostic atheist. It simply is a statement about your level of certainty about the topic.
Source?
Every definition i see of atheism include the "disbelief of the existence of a god". What is the difference of atheism and agnosticism?
If I'm reading the ID's ITT correctly, you're the one who's trying too hard, boyo.
What kind of weirdo gets off on offending people? Atheist faggots are not edgy. We have been hearing this shit constantly for decades... "I don't believe in God, Mom!" Mom puts plate of Beefaroni down. "Thats nice, Reginald."
>>76797287
This guy fucks. But for real, why is this so hard for you faggots to comprehend. It's so fucking simple.
>>76797039
There's a sliver of chance that the universe is actually on the back of a massive tortoise too you stupid fuck. You just don't have the conviction to hold fast to your beliefs.
>>76797287
??? And that's what I'm arguing.
You're either atheist or theist (you either hold the belief or you don't EVEN IF YOU DON'T WISH TO ADMIT IT). Agnosticism has nothing to do with it. They're orthogonal as I said before, and as lovely diagrams other anons have posted explain.
>>76796641
>not believing in a god is grounds for offending someone else
How many refugees did you accept today, Magnus?
>>76797242
"I don't know" and "It can't be proved either way" directly contradict each other, because saying it can't be probed means you would know, at least something. And if a god couldn't be proved, why would you believe? But if you don't believe you are a non believer; an atheist.
I think deep down belief is probably a binary option. It has nothing to do with knowledge, just belief and you either believe in a god or you don't believe.
You can obfuscate by talking about how we don't know, we can't know, you are not sure either way, but ultimately most agnostics are probably living their life as if god doesn't exist.
>>76796733
It hasn't, but stupid edgy "muh agnosticism" special snowflake teens will say "I-I don't know!!"
>>76797622
Well I guess you would know that it cant be proven either way....hence Agnosticism.
>>76795691
>>76795737
>>76796333
>shrimp on the bahbee
>>76797364
Atheist: I BELIEVE there is no god.
Agnostic: I don't KNOW if there is a god.
See how these are unrelated and thus can be combined?
Agnostic atheist: I don't BELIEVE there is god, but I don't KNOW for sure.
Agnostic theist: I BELIEVE there is god, but I don't KNOW for sure.
Gnostic atheist: I KNOW there is no god.
Gnostic theist: I KNOW there is a god.
>>76796135
Being sure there is no God, can't be the same as not knowing if there is. I personally believe in higher power but I'm not sure any of the main religious texts are actually the word of God or the word of man. I guess by definition I'm Agnostic even though I don't identify as one and I believe in God, I just don't really know what God is. I will agree though that I think Athiests play the Agnostic card to forward their own positions in debates against religious discussions though.
>>76797622
Individuals have arbitrary criteria for what they will consider as proof. What you consider proof someone else won't. What they consider proof you very well might not.
Unless you're simply talking about logical proofs, but if that's the case you won't get far functioning only off of tautologies.
>>76797039
>that there's a Deity
Define deity. People can't find anything unless they know what they are looking for.
>>76797092
Have to aggre with this faggot here. Too bad most of high school dropouts /pol/ tards won't even understand this
>>76797916
Your point being? That still doesn't change how many answers to the question there are.
>>76795256
I'm agnostic and believe that god exists but have no idea about which path leads to it. I'm not at ease with some part of the new and old testaments and the quran is literally a shitpost.
>>76795499
pretty much this
but god won't care if you're christian or jew or moslem or atheist
there is only a slight chance that there is a difference between them who will go to hell and who to heaven
cuz in the end the weak will be like horny animals and the good will be like strong good people
I don't like to say it, but I don't like gods nature even tho he gave us free will, but in a really fucked up way
>>76797850
This is what people need to understand.
>>76795691
it's like this, ask yourself two questions
1, do you believe there is a god?
2, are you sure that there is no possibility otherwise at all?
1 yes, 2 yes = gnostic theist, you're delusional
1 yes, 2 no = agnostic theist, congrats you're sane
1 no, 2 yes = gnostic atheist, you're delusional
1 no, 2 no = agnostic atheist, congrats you're sane
>>76797850
>Atheist: I BELIEVE there is no god.
source?
>>76797916
It's kind of hard to prove something one does not know what it is too.
>>76797039
more like pedantically correct, agnosticism is a fancy word for covering your backside because you're afraid of being wrong.
If there is a god out there, he would be more forgiving of someone who was steadfast in his convictions, right or wrong
>>76797268
Saying there is no God, and having no belief that a God exists is not the same thing.
>>76796285
First off, the brain doesn't process in "Yes" or "No."
It process in "Why?" or "Why not?".
If you don't understand the Golden Rule then you don't even understand how your brain fucking works.
i like people who are agnostic. They are atheists who wont argue with you.
>>76798277
Define god.
I can't say i'm sure god exists, if i don't know what god is.
>>76798097
>And if a god couldn't be proved, why would you believe?
It was directed mostly at this line. So what people will consider proof is arbitrary - that should lead you to think about "proof" as not a proper criteria for belief in some sense. That or you're a relativist and simply don't care in the first place.
One doesn't need "proof" to believe something - no one has proven much at all to me, yet I believe a whole slew of things completely on assumption.
>>76798277
Well put.
KNECKBEARD FAGGOTS AND BIBLE THUMPING KEKS BTFO
>>76795499
>>76798114
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMyo8I8AKmY
>>76797050
Who gives a shit about whether or not people believe in a god anymore? He's right.
>>76798536
My argument was more aimed at "If a god could never possibly be proved, it would be irrelevant and pointless to believe in the first place" hope that sums it up.
>>76798632
Christians do. Necessarily.
>>76798277
This and only this
>>76798391
"God" is a specific deity.
When a Catholic says "God" they mean their god/deity.
When a Muslim says "Allah" they mean their god/deity.
Atheism is not the belief that there is no God. There aren't any. As far as they're concerned humans are gods.
>>76798365
>source?
how much of a fucking faggot are you that I have to go throw a dictionary in your face
open google you shit stain
>>76798442
No, your brain literally doesn't do why or why not. Your brain literally makes decisions and biases as fast as it fucking can. YOU have to think why or why not. YOU have to take the time to think it over. And before you've even done that your brain has already made biases and conclusions. That's the way our dumbass animal brains evolved. We don't have time to think "why did that bush move?"; our brains just bias "oh shit there's something that can eat me in that bush time to be alert" because the animals that did that lived, the ones that didn't got eaten.
Many animals don't have the capacity to think why or why not.
>>76798526
gods come in many varieties throughout the world and even then there are deists who hold their own beliefs specific to them
god can be either a single entity or several, can be conscious, or conscienceless, omniscient or not, omnipotent or not, omnipresent or not, can be responsible for the universe or not (rare, but thervada bhudism just kinda ignores what might've made the universe and makes no claim to this or that)
as a general rule though a god must be more powerful than a regular person and capable of bending reality to some extent
>>76798526
jesus fuck go shave your neckbeard and if you're incapable of doing that then by fucking christ I hope that helium tank is already on its way
>>76798788
>"If a god could never possibly be proved, it would be irrelevant and pointless to believe in the first place"
I don't see why this would be the case though. You could say the same thing of the proposition "your sensory experience corresponds to real objects (rather than corresponding to falsities like a hallucination or something)" - it can't even possibly, at least as far as we understand it - be proven, but I'd imagine you believe it nonetheless.
>>76798942
>open google you shit stain
Already did, and that definition is when people use atheist it the narrowest sense.
Atheism in it's broadest sense is the disbelief on deities
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/atheism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Stop taking defenitions out of your ass
I'm an Agnostic.
I don't believe nor disbelieve. It has nothing to do with "offending people" as some people in this thread have put it. It's more like a mix of, "I honestly don't care" and "Well, there could be". Think "open mindedness".
Besides, arguing about it changes absolutely nothing. No matter how much proof you get, you can never fully say God is real or fake short of him coming down to earth himself and bringing out some kind of miracle. Because if he is all powerful, how they fuck are you supposed to prove he is real, when he can just say, "Sorry bro, I'm hiding in a different dimension"
So much autism in this thread. Being agnostic is the only rational position considering its impossible to prove or disprove God. Faggots on the extreme (a)theist ends of things are completely unbalanced and equally emotional in their decision making.
>>76799006
>gods come in many varieties throughout the world
So the diarhea i did yesterday could be god? Hope not, it was nasty
>god can be either a single entity or several, can be conscious, or conscienceless, omniscient or not, omnipotent or not, omnipresent or not, can be responsible for the universe or not (rare, but thervada bhudism just kinda ignores what might've made the universe and makes no claim to this or that)
So you don't have a sngle clue of what god his? Weel, of course one can't prove the existence/unexistence of god
>>>76799070
>neckbeard
GEE, i'm BTFO xD
>>76798942
the "a-" prefix means "not"
theist = belief in a god
a-theist = not/no belief in a god
it's s1mple m8
>>76799276
literally both links are what I've defined as athiest so how in the fuck is it pulled out of my ass
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
1.
rejection of belief in God or gods
Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist
Only this one
> In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.
conflicts. So I'm what, 5 for 6? But here it cites this which sums up the apparent argument you just lost and this thread. Here's the spoon, now be fed.
>The terms ATHEISM and AGNOSTICISM lend themselves to two different definitions. The first takes the privative a both before the Greek theos (divinity) and gnosis (to know) to mean that atheism is simply the absence of belief in the gods and agnosticism is simply lack of knowledge of some specified subject matter. The second definition takes atheism to mean the explicit denial of the existence of gods and agnosticism as the position of someone who, because the existence of gods is unknowable, suspends judgment regarding them ... The first is the more inclusive and recognizes only two alternatives: Either one believes in the gods or one does not. Consequently, there is no third alternative, as those who call themselves agnostics sometimes claim. Insofar as they lack belief, they are really atheists. Moreover, since absence of belief is the cognitive position in which everyone is born, the burden of proof falls on those who advocate religious belief. The proponents of the second definition, by contrast, regard the first definition as too broad because it includes uninformed children along with aggressive and explicit atheists. Consequently, it is unlikely that the public will adopt it.
>>76798632
>What is ISIS
>What is Islam
>What is Rome
>What is Taiwan
>>76798844
Not necessarily.
Christianity is a pseudo-religion. A moral compass, not a cult.
Protestants and Orthodox are "reformed Catholics" that borrow from Christianity.
Most "wacko Christians" are Protestants or Orthodox.
I know which side I'm following.
>>76799517
>So the diarhea i did yesterday could be god? Hope not, it was nasty
technically jeudism believes god is a part everything, so from that perspective yeah
>So you don't have a sngle clue of what god his? Weel, of course one can't prove the existence/unexistence of god
are you stupid
i'm not saying that any particular god can't be defined, just that gods as a whole vary alot around the world
>>76799699
... o k. Did you read the thread, I've been arguing this.
>>76799813
Necessarily. You can't be a Christian and not care about other people's relation to God - you're literally commanded to preach God's Word.
“And He said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.'”
Can we all just agree that Islam needs to die? Christians and atheists can have a nice discussion around a table without blowing things up.
>>76795499
This is correct.
>>76799517
>GEE, i'm BTFO xD
NURMAL IS JUST SETTING ON A WASHING MACHINE
its the same shit. you know what we mean by god you faggot. And if by some miracle you really don't then here, educate yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity
>>76797039
*tips fedora
You deserve it.
>>76798942
I don't like repeating myself.
>>If you don't understand the Golden Rule then you don't even understand how your brain fucking works.
You probably don't even know what the fucking Golden Rule is.
You god damn sociopath.
What would you call someone that believes in God but doesn't believe in any of the existing religions? Would that fit into Agnostic?
>>76800040
>you can't be
You absolutely can. It's in the teachings.
You do not command and preach God's Word. That's Catholicism.
"The gospel" is not "God's Word".
>>76799795
HAHAHAHA
we have been arguing for the same thing. Sorry, i'm kinda of sleepy and i'm only here to shitpost.
>>76799893
>just that gods as a whole vary alot around the world
So god is whatever a group of people believe he his?
>>76795256
What if some people aren't so stuck up that they can admit they don't know all the answers, and since you can't prove no deity there could be a deity?
Agnostics are just pedantic faggots.
And they think they're "logically correct," but they aren't, because it is logical to believe most strongly in the hypothesis which presents the simplest solution, and the more complex solution to a question requires evidence.
>>76795256
Just stop.
Atheists are 100% sure that there is no god.
As an agnostic, I believe that there could be a god/creator, but I live life as if there isn't a deity.
I am not arrogant enough to say 100% without a doubt that there is not a god/deity/creator.
>>76798391
At the heart of atheism is the declaration God does not exist.
It's the semi intelligent atheists that realize this and shoehorn their special brand of atheism into agnosticism.
stop it.
>>76800641
>>Atheists are 100% sure that there is no god.
[citation needed]
>>76800436
no. that's called a deist
alot of Renaissance philosophers and founding fathers were that. it was that era's fedora group but nowadays no one even knows they exist as a group
>>76800576
>So god is whatever a group of people believe he his?
pretty much. read up on various religions out there, it's weird what some groups believe are gods/spirits
>>76795256
>being an atheist/agnostic
>in the age of Lord Kek
>>76800602
This is bait.
You're trying to hard to make Agnostics be the same as Atheists.
>>76800574
>It's in the teachings
It's "in the teachings" that you're not supposed to do what God Himself commands? What "teachings" are these, exactly?
>>76795256
Theist - belief in a religion that beliefs in god
Deist- belief in god, but no religion
Atheist- doesn't belief in god, and no relgiion
Agnostic, someone who doesn't belief or disbelief in god.
If your gonna say "oh your not theist therefore your atheist" your wrong, one can also be deist, deist are not theist
agnostic is just the "in between" of deist and atheist.
>>76800346
>In religious belief, a deity (Listeni/ˈdiː.ᵻti/ or Listeni/ˈdeJ.ᵻti/)[1] is either a natural or supernatural being, who is thought of as holy, divine, or sacred. Some religions have one supreme deity, while others have multiple deities.
So a deity is whatever one believes he is? So if i and a grou of people believe in God Emperor of Mankind, he is now a deity?
>>76800834
>Agnostic, someone who doesn't belief or disbelief in god.
you can't believe or not believe
you either do or you don't
>>76800781
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
Occam's Razor you faggots.
This is why agnostics are not the "sensible beings" they think they are.
Atheists are the more skeptical and logically principled group, not agnostics.
>>76800876
>false dicotomy
>2016
It's like when there is an unsolved math problem and it can either be true or false. You can belief all you want that it's true or false, but in the end you know deep down that you won't know until it's proven
>>76800801
Nope, you're describing Catholicism (or by extent Protestant/Orthodox) again.
>>76795256
I'm an agnostic theist. You're a retard, OP.
>>76800577
>that they can admit they don't know all the answers
Atheists.
>>76800641
>Atheists are 100% sure that there is no god.
Source?
>I am not arrogant enough to say 100% without a doubt that there is not a god/deity/creator.
Just like 99% of atheists
Stop arguing with a strrawman
>>76800749
>pretty much. read up on various religions out there, it's weird what some groups believe are gods/spirits
So you pretty much admit that the possibility of a christin god being true is the same as some nigger tribe spirits?
>>76800949
Occam's razor is an informal argumentative device meant to spare people time by leaving out "unnecessary" propositions.
It's not a law of nature.
>>76800854
yes
why are you so dumb
>>76800691
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
>"In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities."
>>76801078
I quoted you and asked you two questions, and you respond with "nope, you're-"?
Is English your native language?
>>76800949
Why are you arguing the fucking definition
words with an outlier?
Literally projecting.
>>76801142
>So you pretty much admit that the possibility of a christin god being true is the same as some nigger tribe spirits?
not what I said. you asked what a god is. I said it varies alot. that's the only conclusion we've come to so far.
when it comes down to it the christian god is pretty much impossible to disprove due to the fuckery pulled by the church in the middle ages in an attempt to make it impossible to disprove. one can disprove biblical stories, yes, but the god itself is damn near impossible
/pol/ at 5am. Never fails to amuse me.
>>76801078
I think the bible is the same betwenn catholics and protestants. Sure, some things were lost in ytaslattion. But proseletazing is a integral part of christian dogma, no matter the sect
>>76801118
>I'm an agnostic theist
>I'm a pansexual non-binary demisomething
Stop with special snowflake shit. You either believe or don't in a god/deity
>>76801445
Nice post, Ahmed.
It's 12:00 AM in the civilized world.
>>76801445
>impliyan GIUL4sOF isn't just retarded
>>76801456
>I'm an agnostic theist
>I'm a pansexual non-binary demisomething
>Stop with special snowflake shit. You either believe or don't in a god/deity
not an argument
>>76801261
No, you're just parroting the same shit over and over again expecting me to say something contrary.
>>76795256
The way it works is this:
Theist: I believe there is a God.
Atheist: I believe there is no God, but say I have a "lack of belief" because I'm a coward not willing to address burden of proof.
Agnostic: Either I really don't care, or am a coward who doesn't want to debate my beliefs with anyone.
>>76801456
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_mathematics
well they have to be true or false, so go ahead and tell me whether they are true or false :) you should know after all, it's not like "i'm not sure with the current evidence available" is an opinion or anything
>>76801537
Ahmed? Bitch please, I can hear them screaming their fucking morning prayer from here.
>>76801445
This is an American board, dumbass.
>>76801243
So you pretty much admit that the possibility of a christin god being true is the same as some nigger tribe spirits?
>>76801429
>not what I said.
I know. But putting christian god side by side with other deities allow me to make this jump
>when it comes down to it the christian god is pretty much impossible to disprove
Because no one knows what it is.
>>76801445
This is not troll, becasue we want this kind of threads to happen. Believe it or not, some kind of actuall discusion happens here
>>76795256
Who gives a fuck? Let people believe what they want to believe.
Except for Islam. That is fucking trash.
>>76801602
I'm asking you to point me to these "teachings" wherein you derive the idea that Christians don't necessarily have to follow the commands of their God. And you're ignoring the question because those "teachings" don't exist.
Have a good life being a liar.
>>76801655
Why aren't you participating? Don't you know that's haram?
>>76801684
Oh really?
>>76801747
For the past few hours I have watched everyone argue over the definition of Atheism. I'm surprised at the lack of Christ fags demanding another crusade.
>>76797039
As a die-hard skeptic this is the only conclusion to reach about the origin of life. I've basically conceded the question of "where" is far less important than the self defined "why"
>>76801654
>so go ahead and tell me whether they are true or false
I don't know.
But you don't have to know something to believe in it or not.
This guy explained it quite nicely
>>76797092
>>76800876
Well that's not true..I could present a sensibly difficult math problem and a possible answer and you wouldn't have to necessarily believe or disbelieve my answer is right.
BUT that's different from the situation at hand.
Because >>76801066
In this case, this situation is more like a math problem with a solution that seems to work every single time, an algorithm which always works, but which we already know cannot actually be proven. It makes to assume that despite everything we know, a complex alternative force is the reason our algorithm works. We can't prove it doesn't, but it would be completely illogical and without any basis to do so.
>>76801303
My argument was that agnostics are, by choosing to consider and refusing to deny the existence of some complex alternative process (the supernatural and God) to a far simpler process (no God) and answering no further questions, being extremely irrational, unscientific, and illogical in their beliefs. Yet every agnostic prick seems to think he's chosen the only reasonable, skeptical view of life. He hasn't. His believe is the equivalent of "not fully believing or disbelieving in unicorns" and it looks silly because there is no reason at all to believe in them but he continues to assert that he will remain open to the possibility.
>>76801747
>Because no one knows what it is.
no, it's because
>"he acts in mysterious ways"
>"he only answers prayers sometimes"
>"he's everywhere, but also no-where"
>"he knows everything past present and future, but humans still have free will and can somehow go around that"
>"etc"
it's a whole lotta "but"s all to avoid someone actually being able to make a counterargument
>I know. But putting christian god side by side with other deities allow me to make this jump
nah, god's aren't equivalent, it's easier to disprove greek mythology than Christianity for example, seeing as greek gods all liked on a mountain and actually were physical beings, meaning you could just show that they aren't there and that's that
>>76795256
I see agnosticism as the view that God/gods may or may not exist and that the knowledge to know/prove such may or may not exist.
>>76801952
Keep laughing, because if Britain and Europe falls, America is next.
>>76802200
Pretty much, but some faggots get butthurt about people not taking a strong stance on issues it may not even be possible for humans to know anything about because they are prideful idiots.
>>76801623
You sound mad and incapable of formulating your own opinion.
Here, let me fix that for you.
>Theist: For Allah
>Atheist: I don't believe in Allah.
>Agnostic: N/A
>>76802219
I expect you to do the right thing, Tommy, and deal with the Islamic menace with your assault spoon.
>>76802376
Don't worry, Farage is arming for war.
>>76801981
Until Brexit happens, go back to bowing to your Muslim overlords.
>>76800749
Interesting, thanks. So someone that is Deist would 'practice' Deism?
I just don't care one way or another. If there is a god, what am I going to do anyways? I'm going to continue to live my life, that's what.
>>76802437
With a 10% lead, we shall be victorious!
Agnosticism is just basic logic. Break it down, as of right now, other than faith in either religious texts or the sanctity of science, there is no way to confirm or deny the existence of some creative force that gave life to everything.
>>76802302
We aren't butthurt.
But please consider that it sounds as silly to us as someone who adamantly insists that unicorns may or may not exist because we haven't technically proved they don't exist instead of just not believing in them like everybody else.
>Unicorns are well known to have been made up
So is God.
To go a step further, it's almost as ridiculous as watching your friend make up an imaginary creature and then taking on the belief, even privately, that such a creature may or may not exist simply because it hasn't been proven not to exist yet.
It's silly and illogical. The logical answer is to assume that it doesn't exist, because it was made up.
Do you see what I mean though?
>>76802446
no, you just "are" a deist. there aren't really any practices to it unless you define such things for yourself
>>76802219
If Hillary wins, ya
If Trump wins, no
>>76802536
Please see >>76802574 and >>76802055
Agnosticism is not logical at all.
>>76802652
I do hope Trump wins, America won't be the only country to be great again.
>>76795499
I consider myself an agnostic because I don't know enough about the universe to say for 100% sure, as far as I know it could be entirely possible. I do hope that there is a god, though.
>>76795256
Agnosticism is just a distinction for those who don't believe in a god, from those who think no one should believe in a god.
Agnosticism is only a thing because atheists are embarassing autists.
>>76795499
>not
>an
>argument
>>76802739
The relative probability of their being a God is far lower than the probability of existence of loads of other creatures, yet you almost certainly assume these things do not exist. It is not logical to assume God is more likely than these things to exist.
>>76802574
Sure, I understand.
You feel they are full of shit and you tell them so because dealing with the issue is a waste of your time, which is fine and how people get through life.
But ultimately you can't actually disprove any of it, and for some reason you have yet to come to terms with that fact.
>>76795256
Atheists believe there is no God. Agnostics don't believe either way because they don't know.
Why is this so hard to understand?
>>76802574
A fool thinks himself wise, a wiseman knows himself a fool.
Cosmic Creation =/= Unicorns, as much as you want to reduce religion to 'muh imaginary friends,' i'd argue that given the expansiveness as well as our lack of understanding on the topic some middle ground skepticism both ways is commendable over raw dogmatism of either side.
>>76803008
Atheism is not a belief, it's a lack of belief.
Why is this so hard to understand?
>>76803008
"An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid."
-Carl Sagan
Even atheists' Jesus thought atheism was stupid.
>>76802933
I think some people have different definitions of "god", I can't just tell myself "there is definitely no god" because I don't know that for sure.
There are a lot of things today that would have been looked at like witchcraft hundreds of years ago, so maybe there is something out there advanced enough to seem god-like to humans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk
This video sums it up perfectly^^
>>76803295
Nope. Just from the thumbnail I can tell it's another shitty attempt to lump Agnostic and Atheist in the same group.
>>76803207
Theist and Atheist are the same coin.
Agnostic is the coin landing on the edge. They might tip over, or they might just keep rolling on the edge.
>inb4 Agnostics are the edgy ones.
>>76803072
All propositions are positive propositions. A belief in x necessitates a not-belief in not-x.
This is a logical fact.
>>76803386
The video does the exact opposite, but fine.
>>76801997
Sure, but with the math problem, for example let's say that My belief might have a particular leaning towards true or false of whether there are infinitely many twin primes. But that won't be enough to convince me that they are, that won't be enough for me to live my days as if it were true, or to use it as if it were true to build up other theorems. I accept that there is a good chance there will be a proof against it.
>>76795499
>>76795256
Atheism is making a claim without evidence just as Theism is.
>>76803386
It's mostly an athiest complaining about fallacies from theists anyway.
It does however mention that agnosticism is not black and white and there can be theistic as well as athiestic agnostics.
>>76802376
They're allowed to have spoons? Those can be a choking hazard for children under 3 and grown men from Europe.
>>76803072
1. atheism means anyone who doesn't believe in a god, and agnosticism means...nothing. There is no word that means someone who doesn't have an opinion either way.
2. Atheism is the belief that there is no god, and agnosticism means someone who has no belief either way.
Only one of these options makes sense, and it's the option that has been accepted by history. Your option is the one atheists are desperately trying to push to get more people in their camp because "you're either with us or you're against us."
You can change the definitions of words to suit your beliefs like an SJW, or you can be reasonable like you claim to be.
>>76803207
>pandering for PR
>>76795256
I am an agnostic atheist.
>OP btfo
>>76803706
Atheism isn't making a claim. It's denying one. Just like Theism is. That one god is real and the other thousand are not. Atheists just beleive in less Gods then Theists.
>>76803795
Then why did he trash religion constantly?
Sorry that the greatest scientific minds think you're just as irrational as theists.
>>76803386
Frankly I lump Agnostics in the group with Thiests. It's no different, Theists have the same proof as Agnostics do, and the same faith.
You can't say that Theists have more faith then Agnostics. There's no proof of EITHER.
Atheists are the only ones that make a different choice.
I'm agnostic. I don't know what's behind the big door that is the universe. I just hope there is a cool god senpai
>>76795256
There is no such thing as a true agnostic. There agnostic atheists and agnostic theists, but no pure agnostics. Likewise, there are gnostic atheists and gnostic theists.
>>76804126
where do deist fit into that? lol
>>76803572
Agnostics like to think that. But really Theist are the same as Agnostics. It's the difference of Orthodox and Unorthodox. You still follow the rules, you still have the proof of a Supernatural power as anyone else, you just don't have the conviction to know it's bullshit.
>>76804126
>I did a google/wikipedia search as a teenager and here's what I remember
How close am I?
>>76795256
They're cowards.
>>76804188
A deist is a theist who believes in a distant creation deity.
atheists are commies
>>76804282
>deist is a theist
I guess it depends on your definition at that point because the way I know about it is that
deist-belief no religion but belief in god
theist - belief in a religion that has a god
I believe in the church, I believe in Jesus, God, and everything.
But at the same time, just maybe, there might be a possibility that we are alone in this universe.
The fact remains that we don't know anything at all about this universe so we can't put our money on anything; only our faith.
>>76804266
How so?
>>76796650
Classical gnodticism implies humans ARE gods, but there is evil demiurge who created everything, but botched the job and thats why reality is a shithole. Now this demiurge oppressing humsnity to keep everyone stupid and blind to the world around.
>>76795256
Mostly because i am not a fat neckbeard. Any open atheists that i have met tend to be cucks, and whenever the subject of religion pops up they will dismiss anything you have to say and try to argue their "point" by being slightly aggressive at any proof or signs that a deity may exist.
Atheists call agnostics cucks, and yet they are afraid of seriously reading any literature of any religion. Also they tend to bend-over and suck the dicks of Buddhists because Buddhists tend to be more peaceful. Even though if they did any research they would find Jainism to be the most peaceful.
One final point is when open atheists go into politics they often say some stupid shit like: "communism was good on paper, but never tried correctly."
>>76795256
Bunch of atheist & religious morons shitting on agnostics when we're the only ones that are right.
We don't know what, if anything is out there. Nobody does. We'll find out when we're dead
>>76804976
I always wonder on what paper communism looks good? Marks,Lenin, Trotsky all their perfect communism looks like prison+working camp on paper.
>>76803735
And that video would be incorrect and using the "blurred line" fallacy.
You're either a Theist, Agnostic, or Atheist.
No matter how much Agnostic may tip, if it doesn't land you're still Agnostic. No matter how much you side with Theist or Atheist, you don't know.
The amount of actual Theists and Atheists in the current-world is dismal compared to the amount of Agnostics.
How many so-called Theists would die for it (besides jihads) even if someone or something appeared before them that questioned everything they believed? How many so-called Atheists?
Then there's that guy who thought be believe in X his whole life, then Y happens and he stops believing (or vice versa). That guy was an Agnostic who didn't know better.
A theist would call it heresy/"fate" and die. An atheist would blame something (ie Canada, or himself) and die. The agnostic guy would be having a dilemma and die never accepting an answer, even if they claimed it was "fate".
>>76803830
No you're not. You're just an asshole pretending to know, which is worse than someone who doesn't know.
So you're either an asshole-Agnostic or asshole-atheist. Which is it?
Agnostics are cowards that are closer to theists. I mean it seems logical at first since who knows what happens at the end of life but look here:
>Agnostic dies.
>Agnostic sees a god
>Agnostic says "it's a good thing I totally didn't rule out your existence"
>God says "then why the fuck weren't you worshiping me all this time?"
>Agnostic says "ehh, I just didn't know if you existed."
>God says, "ok fuck yourself then. Bye."
>Agnostic goes to hell or whatever
I mean the whole rationality is pointless.
>>76805275
If we found out - thats allready not agnostic.
>>76797473
Well Agnostics believe the possibility of a tortoise too. Agnostisism should replace atheism - since atheism can never be proven
>>76805425
You're a dumbass it's not an insurance policy it's a resolution based on facts. Big bang theory doesn't solve the question of why there was an explosion in the first place. In before pressure... where the fuck did matter and pressure come from?
Yet if an all powerful being exists there isn't sufficient evidence to believe he's real.
Atheism is a stupid religion that requires a leap of faith.
Agnostics are the only ones who are accurate. We don't know if a god is out there or not. Nobody does. We'll find out if there is one when we die.
> God "Why didn't you worship me?"
> Agnostic "why didn't you make it clear that you existed and that's what you wanted? You gave me a rational mind so I used it. I didn't have enough evidence one way or another so I withheld an opinion"
>>76805650
Technicaly - scientists can go backin time and create universe so it dont have original mastermind creator, ie god
>>76805551
noun: agnostic; plural noun: agnostics
1. a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
>>76805821
Adding a god to this equation doesn't answer any of the questions, it just raises more questions
>>76804266
Not an argument.
I think jihads are cowards using their religion as an excuse to enable killing others and/or themselves.
I also think "feminists" are cowards using their "religion" to protect themselves from criticism or consequence.
>>76805383
>All these people giving stuff to me without me having to worry about the consequences. Wow, communism is great.
That's what they were thinking.
>>76795931
Atheists aren't certain either. They just don't see any evidence or reason to think so.
I literally had to explain this to my 8 year old, because she said how do I *know* there's no unicorns. Maybe they were alive a long time ago and we just haven't found fossils. There's more evidence for unicorns than god.
>>76805901
See
>>76805888
Insufficient information means withholding judgment. Not deluding yourself into thinking you figured it out
>>76795256
My father is an atheist. When I converted to Christianity, I asked why he was an atheist and not an agnostic. He told me: "An agnostic is an atheist without balls."
>>76797039
>believe me, I like offending people.
>>76806054
Aren't the people who insist god is real the ones who are claiming to have figured it out? You make no sense.
>>76795499
No, we just don't care really. We don't know if there is or isn't a god. I'm not trying to stereotype but more atheist are fedora wearing assholes that just mock religion. I honestly think most people need religion.
The one undeniable truth is that our time here in this existence is finite, why stress about? Just enjoy your time here.
>>76797039
Atheists are just butt hurt religious people who make a leap of faith about their version of the origins of the universe just like any other religious loon.
That's why they keep trying to recruit people to their religion of no religion.
The fact that we're immune to their dogma's folly puts them in a rage.
B-but we dont know if there is a god or not?
How could anyone know for sure? We also dont know if we're going to be alive in 30 seconds, nothing in life is certain.
>>76795256
Atheists = believe there is no God
Agnostics = knows there are no evidence to proves it's one way or another
Quite a big of a difference.
>>76806362
That is literally one of the dumbest things I've ever read. You best be trolling
Can I not hold the neutral belief of, "I think they're may or may not be a god?"
>>76805425
>belief system is an insurance policy
I'll give you a better scenario.
>Guy born Jewish family.
>Doesn't really follow or care about the religion, but goes through motion because he's expected to.
>Nazi's come around and ask if he's Jewish.
>He says "My parents were but I don't really care about that stuff. I just want to make a living."
>Nazi's tell him to join the cause or get sent away, so he joins the cause.
>Joins cause and ends up dying.
>Non-German soldiers brags about killing a Nazi, but finds out later he was born a Jew and calls him a traitor.
>>Doesn't join cause and ends up dying.
>>Forever claimed to be part of the 6-gorillion.
I use to be agnostic simply out of laziness but I believe in God of some form now. I'm still not a part of any organized religion but I've always leaned towards the existence of a God or Gods instead of the absence.
I don't believe in any religion that I know of though, not that I don't respect a good amount. Fuck Islam and Luciferism.
>>76806200
Atheists claim "for certain God isn't real". Despite the absence of evidence as well. Their theories for the beginning of the universe requires a leap of faith. They aggressively try to recruit followers.
It's a "religion" of no God.
All the pitfalls of religion they claim to preach against they fall to themselves. Lack of evidence, lack of a sufficient logical explanation, preaching, & requiring a leap of faith
If you asked me I believed God was real I would say no.
However, I'm not arrogant/stubborn enough to admit that there is a chance that a God does exist.
>>76805821
It is a broken insurance policy whether you like it or not.
The end result is the same if an atheist were to face a god in the afterlife. Except the agnostic's humility is exposed for being cowardice while the atheist admits defeat and is the actual humble one. It's not some science experiment, this is your life, your principles, and shows kind of person you truly are.
>>76806499
murrica grammar
>>76806582
You live in a realm of sheer fantasy.
>>76806590
isnt*
>>76806582
That's not true. An atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in the existence of God.
>They aggressively try to recruit followers.
Wishful thinking on your part.
Of course, by your definition (God is for certain not real) Dawkins isn't an atheist.
>>76806597
If you cant prove that a God does/doesnt exist whats the point in arguing it ?
>>76806497
No you're the dumb one see this guy gets it
>>76806478
Atheists "believe" something that isn't proven by fact.
It's a religion of no God.
They're argumentative, preachy, irritating as fuck. They have more in common with religious people than they like to admit.
They even appeal to "higher powers" such as people smarter than them. Yet many of the scientists they claim as their own come out strongly anti-atheist such as Einstein.
>>76806841
>Atheists "believe" something that isn't proven by fact.
The dictionary disagrees with you.
>It's a religion of no God.
In that not collecting stamps is as much a hobby as collecting stamps.
Well guys I gotta go, I'm gonna go aggressively recruit followers to atheism. Cause that's what we do you know, that's how we spend our time, with aggressive recruiting! Go atheism! God sux!!
>>76796000
>>76795256
What's it called if you just don't give a shit?
>>76806698
No, he's right. What he's describing is the modern day pseudo-Atheism pushed by "unknown forces" (Jews) to get people more in line with the Satanic religion.
If you actually know about real Satanism then you know that it has no true spiritual core to its values, it's a worship of science rather than an understanding of it.
The Illuminati, the actual Illuminati made up of the Illuminated Brotherhood when it was purged, was made up of Satanists who believed this. If there is a NWO it's likely being moved by Satanists.
Modern day Atheism resembles Satanism more than it does classical Atheism.
>>76806913
Glory to The Nothing!
>>76795256
because no one's mentioned the celestial teapot analogy to them.
or they're just PC
>>76797092
>No one who hears a proposition has absolutely no belief in regard to it
This statement is so absolutely wrong I actually consider it evil. It is entirely possible to hold an idea within your mind without accepting or rejecting it. Society at large simply cannot afford to lose this simple ability. It is the necessary foundation of all intellectual progress.
If I were to flip a coin and ask you what side you believed it landed on you would simply say: "I have no way of telling if it's either heads or tails."
>>76806913
You have to be mentally retarded to not notice pretentious fuck Atheists trying to breath down the back of everyone's necks with their shitty edgy ignorant opinions. Most of 4chan has literally have always made fun of them. You also talk like some fedora-tier faggot off-boarder, so do everyone a favor and neck yourself newfag.
>>76795499
>psuedo-intellectual
You're a dumbass if you think burning bushes can talk.
>>76795256
An agnostic won't admit they are atheist because they know just as you can not prove god exists you can also never actually prove he doesn't exist therefore gods existence is unknowable.. It's the ultimate scientific view of theology... An atheist who claims God doesn't exist is just as crazy as some one who believes he does.
>>76806907
>>76806796
> ITT atheists that don't know the definition of atheism
> From Webster's dictionary
> a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
>b : the doctrine that there is no deity
You're right Dawkins wrote the God delusion because he didn't believe in a lack of a God. He did a great job discrediting religions but his "proofs" for atheism were weak as fuck and full of holes just like religion's explanation was.
If all religions are wrong it doesn't mean atheists are right it means religions are wrong.
Rejecting the null hypothesis is not an acceptance of the opposite.
>>76807041
Its pretty strange to have extensive, deeply held religious beliefs that the guys who claim to have no religious beliefs are the ones who actually have religious beliefs and to think that 0.7% of the population is out to get you.
>>76807145
You necessarily are swayed in some way.
*ANY* proposition that coveys *ANY* kind of token meaning to you *NECESSARILY* have some belief in regard to.
You can hear "jello". One single term. You have belief in regard to it.
You either *completely* don't understand or haven't heard the tokens being used in *ANY* proposition, or else you have a belief in regard to it.
Try again.
