I don't understand how believing in Christianity is redpilled.
I understand Christianity is a massive part of Western civilization and its history.
I understand there's a lot of good morality in it that is worth following.
I understand that many great acheivements and works of art have been done in the name of the religion.
But that doesn't mean you should believe in it, because of these things. It seems just very stupid to actually BELIEVING that what happened in the Bible is true and that it's the word of God. I think because some of you are desperate to maintain western civilization as it has been, you believe in the bible even if there's no evidence for it being true.
So no, Christianity is not redpilled. Understanding that it's done a lot, and using it as an example for a stable culture that people can prosper under, that is much more reasonable.
Agnosticism is the true redpill.
>>76701281
>But that doesn't mean you should believe in it, because of these things.
Belief is what keeps morality and christian culture alive. A Christian society can't exist without belief holding it up. I don't have faith in the supernatural, but I lie and go through life abiding by it. No one in my life knows I hold no faith.
Without it, you create what we have now. An irreligious, violent society with plummeting birthrates, engulfed in decadent narcissistic behavior. Without belief, the values and morals of Christianity become empty and perishable.
>>76701281
>It seems just very stupid
there's your problem, you think, guess what a lot of us do believe and thats what it is, belief
Pretty sure that everything is a simulation. Why do the smallest elements of our world not resolve their state until observed? That doesn't make sense unless it is rendering because it has to.
>>76701281
>It seems just very stupid to actually BELIEVING that what happened in the Bible is true and that it's the word of God.
Why?
>m-muh science
>m-muh evidence
This world is absurd.
Scientifically our lives are meaningless.
Once you realize that it's only a tiny step to accept the ultimate absurdity and embrace God.
Science disagrees?
Who cares. I'm going to believe anyway because science is just a tool and it's not the boss of me. The scientific universe is not a jealous god, it doesn't care one way or the other whether we live as apes, men, or lobotomized slaves. The stars don't care if we reach them. I choose to live like a man and reject the meta-game.
Turn back from the philosophical dead end that is positivism it contains the death of our species.
>>76701281
despite my lack of faith, I ascribe my more conservative upbringing to old catholic grandparents.
>>76701281
Believing in what you want to believe in and coming to your own rational conclusion is red pilled.
So no, you forcing your opinion on others in a way to sway them from own choices isn't red pilled at all
Get fucked, OP
>>76701281
religion is necessary for a very succesful and lasting society. napoleon said ''something something religion keeps the masses in check something'' and its true. however, its also gives us our morals, and those who do not follow a religion or the morals given by it (do not follow christianity, to be exact) are almost always tribal, degenerate or bloodthirsty.
i believe in christianity. i believe that we should follow much of what it says, and i believe that it is far, far better to have it than not. but i cant bring myself to believe in God the character.
>>76702681
what denomination are you?
>>76703464
The problem is that if you don't believe in God, you won't be able to uphold the morality of Christianity. It is the fear and love for God the basis of Christian morality. If you only pretend to have them, it simply won't work.
>>76703464
latvia is a completely non-religious country and culturally it seems to be doing fine.
>>76703457
>believing in the Zeitgeist is redpilled
lmao
Only naturalistic pantheism is truly redpilled.
>>76703657
Lutheran
>>76703830
i can cut my veins open and be fine for a few minutes. doesnt mean i wont die from it soon enough.
>>76703769
i dont deny it. i want to believe in God, and i did when i was young. and my morals are slipping, and i have trouble recognizing myself now, when thinking of how i was. nonetheless, i cant bring myself to truly believe in God.
then again, i got diagnosed with a severe depression in my early teens, and my family has a history of mental illnesses.
>>76703149
If you can accept that everything is a simulation then you're just one step away from finding religion.
The world is a game.
We're just the characters in it.
Trying to pick apart the universe is the equivalent of trying to glitch your way off the map and exploit the meta aspects of the game.
Yes you can get impressive results if you do this, but you run the risk of ruining the game for yourself and everyone else. So stop dicking around in the corner jumping on each others backs, and play the damn objective.
>>76701281
When you actually read the bible from a neutral stance you find that a lot of it makes a lot of sense, then you get to the prophecy part and you shit your pants trying to get down on your knees and apologize fast enough.
>>76703855
Did I say that?
>>76704152
Yes.
>>76704193
Where?
when you really get down to it, existance is the fundamental universal property. Non-existance is itself an extant concept. This reality exists because it could never be otherwise, since non-existance, once again, is simply a different aspect of existance. God=existance
>>76704288
Get fucked.
>>76703963
ok. Not going to judge you or try to convert you. Just an advice: if you want to really believe in God, and see that he exists in a most empirical way. Look up the apparition of Our Lady of Good Success in 1600 and that specifically talked about the 20th century. Also look up Katharina Emmerick, a catholic mystic who was given visions of the future by God, and that foresaw "the Church of the two Popes". Just trying to say that if you look into the Catholic Church and its history, you'll find proof that God exists, or at the very least that sometimes he sends messages of warning about the future that come true.
>>76704004
I was in your same situation. Heck, I am still snapping out of it., but going back to the Faith is what is giving me strength everyday. I used to be unable to stop masturbating no matter how I tried. I literally felt physically ill if I didn't do it everyday. Then I started praying the Rosary. And I have never masturbated again. I still have a long way to go though.
Mental illness won't stop you from loving God anon, nothing will.
>>76704288
Believing in what you want is an illusion. You are not in control. When you abandon Christianity you become a tool of whatever religion the spirit of the time deludes you into thinking is your own """"""free""""""" and """"""""personal"""""" choice.
Individualism is the doctrine of the devil to leads you astray from the truth of your human nature
>>76704565
God ended the gift of prophecy once the New Testament was finished.
How is the bible red pilled when Genesis was legit plagiarized from the Enûma Eliš? The Enûma Eliš is the first known creation myth in mankind's history, with the first gods and etc known to man. Christianity took God; who was a female dragon and made of darkness and chaos; she stood for life and freedom; Tiamat means Life Mother, and made it into the devil. And took the actual devil Marduk; wanted man to be slaves and worship him, was made of light and stood for tyrannical order, and called him Jesus, Lucifarians do the same thing only they use Lucifer in place of Jesus. The bible reverses everything, more than this though it's fiction stolen from an older faith. The bible is not red pill, the bible is pure fictional garbage. http://www.religioustolerance.org/com_geba.htm
>>76704445
Are you joking or serious? With all due respect to Catholicism, that is the dumbest fucking reason to become more religious. This isn't /nofap/ faggot. For Christs sake get a hold of yourself. You don't need organized religion to get yourself to stop jerking off all day. Just try giving a fuck like a normal human being.
>>76704811
>Why is the bible redpilled when this text might have been plagiarized it but we cant know for sure since it happened thousands upon thousands of years ago.
Ebin.
>>76702681
>>76703657
Maybe a silly thought - but we need a system of belief that teaches the values and upholds the strengths of Christianity and what we've built in the West, without the supernatural beliefs and susceptibility to corruption (IE giving a bad person effectively the mouthpiece of "God" to the common folk).
Any ideas? How do we go about doing this?
>>76704354
Not an argument
>>76704699
So your just placing your own opinion in mine to fit your judgement upon me?
>>76703341
I would like for you to explain your position and post here.
As you sound like an intelligent person by your writing and the way you organize your thoughts, but the end result is verbal and logical diarrhea, so I am assuming I have a fundamental misunderstanding of your position.
>>76704870
First of all I wasn't talking to you. I only advice anon to look into the history of the Church and its history to have a more concrete proof of the Living God dwelling in us and helping us through our hard times. I did that because he said he had trouble believing.
It has nothing to do with you.
I didn't just stop jerking off all day, I stopped jerking off completely, and I have removed the oppression of lust from my life. Something you will probably never understand.
>>76704995
> without the supernatural beliefs and susceptibility to corruption
God is supernatural. Without the supernatural, there is no religion, you are only roleplaying one.
>>76705000
I am just telling you the truth. You are free to have a different opinion about it and live in apostacy and sin. Just don't complain when you end up in hell though.
>>76704811
This is the gayest piece of postage I've ever read in my life. I read this and lost brain cells. If you're gonna fedora fedora at a debatable capacity faggot.
>>76705101
You are just retarded
>>76705191
But you have to admit, I did not say anywhere that I believe in the zeitgeist.
>>76705191
Then roleplay away. I do not see faith or a 'God' as a necessity, only a system of morals and beliefs upheld by something that is greater than the individual.
>>76705215
Thanks for contributing your shitpost to the pseudo-discussion. Here's your (You).
>>76705205
Your only argument is that you think it's gay. I stated facts, with a source link for what I'm saying. The bible is just a plagiarizing of the Enûma Eliš. They reversed everything and called it scripture. What I'm saying is 100% known fact to the educated.
>>76705262
You said you believe whatever you want.
I already explained you why believing in whatever you want means believing in the zeitgeist, I did it here >>76704699
>>76705271.
How can God, who is greater then everything, be a tool to lead you somewhere else? Where would you rather be than to be conducted to the absolute source of everything?
Your pragmatic naturalism is completely garbage, and the last 60 years have shown that undeniably, and yet you cling to it because you cannot accept to let go of your pride and trust God to guide you to the Way, the Truth and the Life, which is HIm
Don't bother, this board has become a refuge for Christians because the rest of the Internet laughs them off.
>>76701281
It actually is red pilled af if you look into its esoteric side. Look into the enuma elish/elohim connection if you want your third eye to throb. Take a peek into the tree of life and JC's connection to tiferet. He was the greatest magi/alchemist ever lol. But this is all if you're into "creation". I prefer AIN. I'm more into the void.
>>76701281
>I understand Christianity is a massive part of Western civilization and its history.
Only for about a 900 years or so really.
>I understand there's a lot of good morality in it that is worth following.
Not a shred, unless you count "be afraid of God, but love him also somehow".
>I understand that many great acheivements and works of art have been done in the name of the religion.
Funded by the Church perhaps, but not in the name of the religion. Who told you all of this, did you come up with it yourself?
>>76705463
Because God doesn't real.
Any perception or notion of a God depicted in popular religion crumbles at the slightest inquiry of a scientific or skeptical nature.
But I am fully cognizant of the benefits of faith, and seeing that which is beyond the self, not in a supernatural or metaphysical sense, but the sense of belonging to a greater whole, and doing the right things simply because they are right is an incredible virtue and strengthens society.
The Enûma Eliš is the source. I would avoid the Tree of life concept however and look into the reverse tree of 11 however, this is the void, not the 10. But really even the tree systems and the 11 spheres of the void/tiamat, are only one mans idea of how things work, your best bet is to create your own system, and find out what the Dragon is to you, discover God though your own interpretation and direct experience. I too am in love with the Void.
Now the true soldiers of Christ must always be prepared to do battle for the truth, and must never, so far as lies with them, allow false convictions to creep in. Origen
>>76705463
Wrong, no where in my original post did I state that I believe in anything. I just simply stated that one should be free to come to their own conclusion, free of will, which Him seems to want us all to have. Did He not give Adam that choice in the garden, the free will to stay or leave until he was banished out from being deceived by woman and the fallen?
It it matters, I believe in the Christian rights but personally, I recognize the prophecies laid out for us by the Divine.
>mfw someone tells me that they don't believe in god because he's an illogical entity
People try to limit God, a supernatural being who created the universe, to logic and reason. Yes, an omnipotent and omniscient being who can literally make 2+2=5 in a way that we couldn't even begin to fathom is limited by the logic and reason that make up the attributes of this universe.
>>76705812
>american education
You are trying to argue for the nonexistence of the metaphysical with science, when science can only deal with empiricism. So all those "values" and "morality" you are trying to justify goes right out the window as arbitrary claims.
>>76701281
>I don't understand how believing in Christianity is redpilled.
Because right from the get-go, even depicted in the image you posted, you are told 'don't trust the bitches.'
>>76705958
Values and morality can be empirically delineated, if not quantified. "Is this an example of good morals?" can be answered - "how much morality was in this decision" cannot.
You're trying to play word games to confuse the issue.
>>76705929
Gimme evidence and I'll follow that train of thought.
>>76705969
Alas, you're also told that Eve was seduced by a talking snake, i.e. a talking penis.
>>76705579
>>76705812
>Any perception or notion of a God depicted in popular religion crumbles at the slightest inquiry of a scientific or skeptical nature.
lmao. Worst meme of the century.
>but the sense of belonging to a greater whole, and doing the right things simply because they are right is an incredible virtue and strengthens society.
Morality without the afterlife and a just God separating the truth from the falsehood does not stand on its feet, no matter how hard it tries to.
Your logic is based on the assumption that God does not exist and he did not talk to us. A false assumption indeed.
>>76705875
>muh freedom
I was just pointing out that beginning your actions and thoughts in freedom, leads to imprisonment of yourself to the spirit of the world. You are so bluepilled you don't even grasp what I am telling you.
>>76706087
>Values and morality can be empirically delineated
You clearly did not understand my point. There is no objective morality in a naturalistic worldview.
>Is this an example of good morals?
Try and empirically demonstrate that an action can be moral.
>>76705422
These aren't facts they're blatant untruths that are flimsily connected at best and at worst the work of a madman atheist desperate to disprove Religion.
>>76705958
God can't be proven or disproven. No one shares direct experience in life. So even if two people hold the same construct, they don't share the same perception or direct experience. This is why all systems and models on God are wrong. God and demons are a dragon in that they are not real outside of what you chase. The darkness is your ability to create, to dream, to search from the heart. When you follow what another person worships, you get further away from the truth, because it's subjective. All interpretations where made by someone at some point, to be close, you would need to become close to your own darkness. This is order out of chaos, and darkness. Dictation of God or Magical systems get a person further away from actual magic and spirituality. The trick is in knowing Solomon never existed, the temple and magic is inside of the darkness in your mind.
>>76706181
>Your logic is based on the assumption that God does not exist and he did not talk to us. A false assumption indeed.
What the hell am I reading. Why is it a false assumption?
>>76705929
Which would be a perfectly valid point if the religion didn't have traceable historical origins.
Redpilled criticism is levied at the religion, not the existence of god. You can't nail Jello to a wall.
>>76706181
No I understand quite well, you want blind faith. Something that was not expected from people. He has given us free choice, the church only wants blind faith.
>>76706287
I've never argued that the existence of God can be empirically verified. I'm just pointing out anon's absurdity in thinking that the metaphysical can be empirically verified.
>>76704995
except god is real, dipshit
it's not fucking supernatural, you heathen fuck
Christianity of the first centuries is not the same . It changed in a way to serve the state and kings ... Jesus was probably Buddhist
>>76706181
So, provide evidence. Hell, loosely connect some shit that *implies* a God.
>>76706257
Less naturalistic, more human-centric. What is good for us as a race? What is good for us as a (insert subgroup here)? That is the foundation of morals, group benefit.
>>76706320
While I still argue that the existence of God is unlikely, I fully agree that the cancer is the religion and associated power structures. If God is real, fantastic, I still feel most religion is evil. If he's a fanciful construct of man's ambitions hopes and fears? Religion is still evil.
>>76706407
Evidence. Evidence. Some kind of indication.
>>76703341
I kind of feel like this is a defeatist attitude to take. The amazing thing about us as humans is that we are an amalgamation of matter in the universe that have gotten the ability to care.
If God exists, and if God cares, why does His care matter in the grand scheme of things? Even as the be all end all sovereign f the universe its existence and his opinions are scientifically meaningless.
The the seeming necessity to require an external being to assign you a meaning and care is not very manly in my eyes. True man takes ownership of the situation he is in. He is aware of the grand rapids of life, but is not discouraged by the treacherous waters. He focuses not on what he can not do, but assesses the situation, grabs the oar, and steers the boat in the direction he wants to go. True ownership of his own life.
>>76706318
I am not going to post a fedora, just know that you would deserve that reply
>>76706379
No such thing as blidn faith. You have proof that God exists by Him once you believe in Him and pray everyday. That is how it works. You have never given up on your pride, therefore you have never been able to experience that.
>He has given us free choice, the church only wants blind faith.
Faith = obedience to God. The free choice was only given so that we can choose to love Him or not, to trust Him or not. You say that faith is blind, but there is nothing blinder than a lack of it
>>76706500
>muh evidence
lmao
>>76703830
Dude, they are so lutheran they even have missions in south america. Religion is a big deal, they just dont publicly make a fuss about it.
>>76706287
You fail to understand that the reason you can't disprove God is because you're trying to use the very evidence of his existence as disproof for why he exists. You look at science and see this empirical system of non-debatable facts that cannot be disputed (despite the fact it has, and has changed rapidly over the years and is still called "theorums" to this day) to disprove the existence of the being that created those very breadcrumbs to his reality.
You atheists consider yourself the most open minded so consider this:
Why is it that Christians have such difficulty explaining why they're so certain God exists. There's nary a doubt in their mind mostly.
My philosophy on this is that Christians have adopted a more spiritual view of the world and found it acceptable, whereas Atheists seem to be constantly searching, endlessly and tireless trying to find that one piece of indisputable proof that puts the God issue to rest once and for all.
My friend you'll never find it like that. You need to put yourself inside the mind of a believer in order to understand how we think. For us it's just facts of nature that God is real and Jesus is his begotten Son.
>>76706398
I agree fully, God is not quantifiable outside of belief, the Metaphysical is on the same level. There is no actual science supporting ether God Nor magic as being real or fiction. Beleif is all a person has, and it is subjective, this is why all paths are garbage, the path and concept you alone create is what is correct. To follow someone else is to get further away from your own belief.
>>76706500
the world around you dingus
>inb4 muh nothing exploded into something and something something MUH DARWIN
>>76706613
Here you are, continuing this pointless argument till you feel you have some sort of agreement in your favour. No, sorry, everyone has free choice and blind faith is not required in His name. Only the righteous will be judged in His favour.
>>76706705
Mockery wont win them over they need evidence and facts. We have those so lets use them.
>obligatory "Joseph's wife's son" post
>>76706407
If G-d is real, fancy me a distheist. Nevermind the suffering in the world. The Christian Beatitudes promote suffering under the guise of eliminating suffering. The philosophy is, frankly, dated. And make no mistake. It has aged poorly.
Regardless of weather or not god exists, the christian philosophy is terrible. If he was proven to exist, the philosophy would STILL BE TERRIBLE.
And like it or not, that genie isn't going back into the bottle.
>>76706500
>What is good for us as a race?
> group benefit
except that deciding group benefit and racial dominance to be the foundation of morals is entirely arbitrary. Good luck trying to convince the rest of society that your set of morals is the absolutely true one. The best case of a 'scientifically founded" morality that has been offered in modern times is evolutionary ethic, which is dubious and has been rationalized to support eugenics and other seemingly "immoral" practices.
>>76701281
Jesus came in the flesh , died , and arose from the dead in the flesh.
he was the son of god and god himself , imbued with the holy spirit , speaking the tounge of the holy father.
he was the holy trinity combined into one with a message for mankind.
if you disagree , i am eagerly awaiting your response at the pearly gates.
we are one , you are me and i am you.
what does it taketh to make you see the truth?
>>76703149
Well, either that or quantum physics is wrong. It wouldn't surprise me either, a lot of that kind of work is hugely theoretical.
>>76706774
your own special snowflake theology based on your personal feefees is worthless in the eyes of God
>>76706781
they will literally never ever accept facts or evidence
i've been down this road they are too stuck worshiping money, themselves, or vagina
>>76706795
you're wrong, but whatever
only you can accept Jesus, no one can make you
>>76706795
This is the most preposterous theory I've ever read. The fact that Atheists debate from a stance of Christianity completely destroys the possibility of their own argument being valid. The issue with Atheism is they have to delve into the realm of Christianity and poke flaws rather than stay in the realm of Atheism and build upon that, and that is why Atheism will forever be a footnote in history.
>>76706894
Are you judging me in His name?
Can't we all just be happy in God's glory instead of fighting among ourselves? None of us are worthy, we all need Christ Almighty to stand before God proudly.
>>76706694
I am theistic though, I am not an Atheist. You're simply glued to your narrative. I practice full on ritual, and have belief in a higher power. I'm simply also aware of the truth, in that it can't be proven outside of self belief. You however are pushing pseudo science as fact, using fictional books to force an agenda and lifestyle, you're dictating how others should be and calling it Spirituality, you accuse atheists; WHICH I AM NOT, of being closed minded, while you yourself make blatant false clams and live in a fictional reality. I am theistic, just because someone is Theistic does not mean they have to be out of touch with reality, or push fictional books on people as truth. God, and Magic is subjective, it can't be proven or disproven. You can't deny these claims. Thus following anyone but yourself in such matters or preaching "the way" is insanity. The way, is the way you create.
What are you all doing!
Preise KEK
>>76701281
>>76701281
You can't "believe" in Christianity and not believe in the Bible. That's an oxymoron. You either accept the Bible and Christianity or you don't. No compromise. That is a form of indecisiveness. The Bible and God condemn indecisiveness as a sin. That is also a form of being ashamed of God as well. If you show yourself ashamed of God he will be ashamed of you.
>>76706933
Accept Christ?
No, what Christ wanted was to promote suffering. To fetishize pain and agony. The symbol of the religion is even a torture device. You've fallen into a nihilistic socialist death cult.
>>76706840
In old greek bibles it is written as .A son of god not The son of god . as in the same nature
>>76706398
also, I personally don't believe in him, but I am not going to try to "disprove" God, as that's not possible, you really can't disprove shit.
Just stating that belief in clear falsehoods is a weakness of the mind, and that I think we can have morals and men with a backbone that do not believe in magic.
>>76706613
>I don't need to post evidence
>lmao fedoruh
>proof is from prayer
This is why people disregard your opinions.
>>76706705
Nothing never exploded into something. that is what the Fedora-ti (get it? fedora, foederati? fuck it) use when they have a 9th grade grasp of the big bang and use it to rebel against religion (ie, their parents).
The Big Bang, as it was termed, by Christians, was NOT nothing into something, but for us, it was the beginning of a universe, which is the only reality we know. What's outside of that universe or what preceded it is something that is outside of the grasp of our current understanding.
And Darwin was a pretty cool guy, watches animals fuck into other animals and doesn't afraid of anything.
>>76706781
Yes, please. I'm trying to approach this in a calm and sensical manner, not a screaming shitfit.
>>76706807
You're correct in saying moral absolution is a lofty and probably unreachable goal. And what's wrong with eugenics? Practice it while minimizing the suffering of those it's practiced on.
>>76706862
>>76703149
things I find fascinating, but I don't think we have the data to come to a conclusion, therefore, no opinion.
>>76706933
Show me this so oft-ignored evidence then, brother.
I am a non-believer, but I always liked the fashion sense of the Templar.
>>76707082
Kek may not be real, but his memes are, and his influence can be seen in the politics of 2016. Hallowed be thy lols.
And people wonder why the establishment controls us so easily while "faithful redpilled" idiots ITT try to explain we should all be servitors of their God. These people are naturally meant to be enslaved, to be human cattle, because they enjoy it.
I think the whole deal about stop listening to your earthly desires and carnal lust, to thrive for search of knowledge, to train your body and mind, to pray to Jesus, his Catholic Church, and thus becoming a better man on a daily basis, is pretty alpha.
>>76706795
>. The Christian Beatitudes promote suffering under the guise of eliminating suffering
Don't you labor to earn your daily wage? Don't you get headaches after studying hours and hours for a test? Don't you fight wars to protect your family from the enemy?
Do you unironically think that suffering is not necessary in the world? Are you really this much of an insufferable 13-year-old?
christians think that you have to endure the ugly and evil in the world to overcome it
atheists think that the ugly and evil does not exist, so they blind themselves and wallow in squalor, repeating to themselves "realty isn't real, anything goes".
>>76707048
Completely false. I'm not pushing anything I was merely suggesting why Atheists can never land on a solid point to disprove God. Their entire agenda seeks to disprove God, look at the big bang, everyone hopped on that like it was the next big thing and the end all be all and then their own science disproved their theory. Disgraceful how they have to so vehemently deny God to feel better about themselves.
>False claims
Everything I said was completely true. Name one instance where Atheists weren't arguing from a "ha, gotcha!" standpoint.
>Fictional books
The bible has accurately predicted the future more often than any other piece of literature in History, ergo: I follow Christs teachings.
>Magic
Okay this argument is over you're a delusional individual.
>>76706949
What are you even talking about? There has long been atheistic philosophy and religion. Do you think the works of Marcellus Aurelius are irrelevant?
>>76707173
based flag stealer
>>76707102
> Christianity is the faith of the Hatred of beauty
Then why did some of the best and most beautiful works of art come with the renossaince which the church was all mighty? I bet Nietzche was a Modern Art lover
>>76707082
Indeed, (Preise Kek)!! He is indeed more of a God that anything in the Bible. For the simple fact that we know it's an aspect of that unknown dark chaos, it is simply one mans idea called into thought form for our focus. In this, KEK is more real than Jesus, or any other of these systems these people are trying to push, because it is clear, that it is unclear. In this, I sing praise to thee! OH BEAUTIFUL KEK, BLESS US, with the freedom of thought found in disorder away from dictation, bless us with your healing cosmic waters, and extinguish the flames of enforced order. Oh marvelous aspect of freedom, love and chaos, HAIL KEK!!!
>>76707243
Atheistic philosophy is paramount to loud cheers and applause when adults who failed to develop the spiritual brain catch someone of faith off guard.
>Atheist
>religion
I thought atheism was literally the absence of religion.
>>76707351
>I thought atheism was literally the absence of religion.
An atheist claims he knows there is no God. Which is pretty stupid. Most so called atheists are actually agnostics.
>>76707140
"Useful Idiots" is the american term
>>76707173
Even more alpha if you do it out of a burning passion and desire for moving forward as a species, and leave the silly supernaturalism aside.
>>76707232
You can never disprove God, most rational atheists are really hardline agnostics. Anyone saying they've disproven God is using the same 9th grade bullshit we see Christians of that age/attitude using. "You don't know this fact, which science may or may not know, therefore god, haha got yaaaa" is the equivalent reverse argument. They are both worthless, and prove nothing, elucidate or clarify nothing.
>>76707243
I know you aren't speaking to me - but I love his work, and I think his values are what I'm theorizing and fantasizing about, just adapted to a new age.
>>76707351
The childish jabbing back and forth really kills any sort of sensible discussion. And don't act like your "side" doesn't do the exact same.
>>76701281
you´ve no belief to begin with , you question something you can´t even perceive and put yourself infront of it redicouling the process.
you are the lowest of the low.
you are scum.
you are nothing but a stable boy that only sees what he wants to see and for that you will remain forever stuck in the loop of questioning your own design and heritage.
this is your fate.
tho you have not chosen it , your actions led to disbelief and mockery.
you are nothing but a mere shell of what you used to be as a young child so vibrant and curious.
now you´ve turned into a bitter adults fed up with the circumstances asking for guidance when it has been long lost the moment you started to deny it.
can you recover? surely.
but it takes a lot from yourself to agree to the fact , that you have been mistaken and you are in dire need of help.
>>76707311
Roman bro.
>>76707136
>also, I personally don't believe in him, but I am not going to try to "disprove" God, as that's not possible, you really can't disprove shit.
exactly my point. Along with God, morality too is metaphysical so your attempt to come up with "morals that do not believe in magic" is as futile as saying unicorns are better than dragons. You might come up with a pragmatic set of morals but they will then be substantiated on assumptions that many people would not subscribe to. In what world then, can you possibly tell people that their sense of morality is wrong as much as telling people that your dragon is better than theirs?
>You're correct in saying moral absolution is a lofty and probably unreachable goal. And what's wrong with eugenics? Practice it while minimizing the suffering of those it's practiced on.
again, exactly my point. You can't make any claims that eugenics are good or bad without making arbitrary assumptions. The only way to do so would be to have an constant unchanging frame of reference (God in a Christian worldview).
I wish to state something rather obvious. It does not matter whether you believe in God or follow religion. What matters is that other large and influential groups from different geographic areas believe in their gods and in some very relevant cases their gods command them to annihilate the non-believers. The goy, the kuffar. Whatever angle you preffer. In the past, the targets were held together and somewhat strengthened by a common belief. Nowadays its just shooting fish in a barrel, for every fish is enlightened and liberated and only has himself to rely on. I am just looking from the outside.
Tl;dr awkwardness ensues when you are enlightened but others believe and their belief asks them to take over you.
>>76707232
>you have to disprove something for it to not exist
So where's your proof that leprechauns don't exist? Where's your proof succubi and reptilian lizard men don't exist?
No one has to disprove God for him to not exist. YOU have to prove he exists for there to be a way to then prove he doesn't.
>>76706613
You're basically advocating that mentally ill people actually do hear God when they hear voices right now because you refuse to specify yourself and instead rely on dismissive ad hominem attacks. You lot make atheists out of curious people.
>yfw gnosticism and agnosticism coexist and are both viable.
You don't have to be one or the other because both exist or don't. Black holes, dark matter, light and matter exists. We have to get past this.
>yfw creation spawned from nothing
>>76707448
No my "side" probably perpetuated it to be quite frank. The fact of the matter is while Catholic/Christianity have dulled its fangs in recent years in regards to debate and argument (which is how God intended it, we were never supposed to convert by the sword,) Christians resorting to petty debate tactics has died down too. The issue is Atheism, being the complete absence of a philosophy rather than a philosophy in and of itself, has accomplished naught due to them being unable to build upon a void. Thus we still see commercials of smug atheists petitioning for children not to be subjected to evil religion in classrooms and such.
>>76701281
That's because you're not redpilled.
>>76707325
You've pissed the point entirely. This isn't about art, it's about the human condition - which Christianity has an open contempt for. Desire is coveting. Passion is lust. Self-respect is pride.
Every aspect of the Christian religion has been built to keep men weak, pining for the next world.
Because to them, this world is an interlude.
>>76707574
Proof that atheists are unable to disprove God. Ergo the possibility of God is out there and Atheists who claim to "know God doesn't exist" are proven fools who don't take a variable into account.
>>76707590
>all that strawman
>>76707351
>I thought atheism was literally the absence of religion.
Buddhism, IIRC is an atheistic religion. Lots of eastern religion is atheistic.
>>76701281
No one said believing in Christianity is redpilled. But following Biblical advice is.
Treat others how you wish to be treated, resist evil, scour out corruption, ignore greed and laziness,
work hard, women obey men, men need to lead and protect the church, dont sleep with animals dont sleep with other men, dont get fat, keep your body clean and righteous...
I dont think I need to keep going. Whether or not you believe in it isn't my concern, but the masses need religion to stay in line...
Our society is becoming more and more agnostic/atheist and with it comes moral degeneracy because no one feels they need to hold themselves to a higher standard anymore.
>>76707738
>Buddhism
Buddhism has a myriad of religious godly figures.
>>76707566
Pretty sure nation states have been kicking the shit out of religions for a while now.
>>76707574
You're really going to say a higher power can't possibly be in charge? That humans are it? That we know shit? How long ago did we come from shitting outdoors again? That takes one ignorant motherfucker to think we're it.
>>76701281
Also there's nothing illogical about a deity creating the universe.
If anything the Big Bang model requires a creating factor that exists outside of the Universal laws.
Believing the universe just poofed itself into existence is more illogical to me.
>>76707786
Because these are all positions of strength.
>>76707709
Then take away my strawmen, you taunt without substance.
>>76707893
That only recently we had the scientific capacity to prove and understand. We know that all that stuff is good for you and strong for the body. We didn't before. This just shows that religious leaders were millennia ahead of their time or that we had divine guidance by a merciful God.
>>76707893
So what you're saying is... doing whatever you want and being degenerate is stronger? Have fun sucking dick then and feeling manly.
>>76707843
>Believing the universe just poofed itself into existence is more illogical to me.
What poofed the creating factor that exists outside of the Universal laws into existence?
>>76707786
>Treat others how you wish to be treated, resist evil, scour out corruption, ignore greed and laziness,
So if I get turned on by having people grab my penis, I should treat others like that?
Also I'd love to read some passages on where everything you say has merit in the bible.
>>76708000
There needs to be a constant in every equation.
>>76707243
>>76707448
After a lightning quick refresher course, maybe Stoicism is basically the beneficial tenets of religion without the need for a religious belief...
>tfw your original thought isn't terribly original
>>76707547
Simply because we cannot absolutely define it within the words we use at the moment doesn't mean it doesn't exist as a concept - it only means we haven't made a word for it, or that what we use is imprecise and doesn't measure it.
They exist, we can show them. We just can't quantify them. These assumptions, without assuming a full nihilistic point of view, are not arbitrary.
>>76707610
There is something wrong with telling children there's an invisible man in the sky watching you poop. But there is nothing wrong with instilling a strong moral foundation in them, and teaching them the virtues of giving, and that kindness need not be accompanied by weakness.
I despise those fedoralords despite agreeing, fundamentally with what they preach, as they do it in such a hateful and vindictive snippy manner, they're no better than their counterparts in the religious spheres.
And yeah, Atheism is a religion in about the same way "Off" is a TV channel.
>>76707691
Think both sides have come to the conclusion that they are children or morons. Let's move on.
>>76707738
>>76707790
Lots of different branches of buddhism, so, uh, you're both right?
>>76707828
I, for one, don't say it can't be true, I just say that it's unlikely and that you've provided no evidence or rational train of thought, only tried to call our moral aptitude into question because we think we are the ultimate controllers of the world's current destiny (Which we aren't ,but we are moreso than any entity that is self-aware that there's any evidence of, so for all intents and purposes, we are).
>>76707893
>>76707959
People were practicing these things without religion and will continue to - we knew THAT it did something, science has only told us WHY it did something.
A person who needs a book to be a good person, was damaged from the start. A good person does not yield at the no of a deed, nor do they find it possible to stop when authority says no. THEIR NATURE DEMANDS IT. You Christians are some sick brainwashed people.
>>76708015
>swecuck immediately wants to grab cocks
I kid - but, if you can do something that spreads joy between two consenting adults, I don't give a fuck, go for it.
>>76708000
That's the whole point. The universe follows natural laws or constants
One natural constant in our universe is that things can't pop into existence.
Therefore the universe having a starting point at all indicates that either the universe doesn't follow natural laws or something else doesn't that created it...
At that point it just comes down to your own preference and logic gets thrown out the window.
So would you rather believe the Universe made itself or God made it?
>>76701281
How is it stupid to believe in the literal truth?
Wouldn't it be stupid to ignore it and then die.
>>76708015
Yeah nice try there... But uhhh the other laws come first, as in not being a faggot and not killing people and not doing whatever you want.
Also literally all this stuff is in the Bible. Google is your friend I'm not gonna do it for you noob.
Relegion works - Christianity is outdated and could use a heavy workover.
>>76708129
this may be silly, but I always thought that before the universe existed, there were no laws of physics or anything, so the law of cause and effect didn't exist, therefore something could come from nothing. is that stupid?
>>76708053
So isn't the existence of God an observation that science has yet to prove?
>>76708048
Does that mean there is a prime constant that has always been there? If so, how is that possible, how do we comprehend that even.
It's as if time and space are meaningless outside our universe.
>>76708015
This is the most retarded straw man argument I've ever heard.
>>76708053
Hey man I've provided you evidence and if that's how you feel afterwards then it's somebody elses job to convince you.
>Think both sides have come to the conclusion that they are children or morons. Let's move on.
Yet you consider yourself better than both of us by ridiculing both of us simultaneously?
That, by your own standards, makes you doubly cancerous.
>Lots of different branches of buddhism, so, uh, you're both right?
That's like comparing Christianity to agnosticism in the sense that they both think doing good stuff is good. Mainstream buddhism involves a myriad of deities.
>People were practicing these things without religion and will continue to - we knew THAT it did something, science has only told us WHY it did something.
History tells us that the majority of populous was practicing these things because the church (the leading group of influence at the time) told them it was good for them, and it was.
>>76708066
Lol... this fallacy again. There's no such thing as true altruism.
And most Christians don't do good things because they think it's going to make them go to heaven...
In fact one of the core tenants of Christianity is being good doesn't get you jack...
It won't get you to heaven and you should be doing good to do good.
>>76708211
I asked to be shown these passages in the bible, especially now when you say some are even laws. I want you to point out where you get them, perhaps I might misread, or find a passage that directly contradicts your claim. I do not know what you have read.
>>76708015
See this is the infantile shit that holds you back. It's not that you don't get Christianity, it's that you can't. This is where a Christian would say withhold your doubt and make an honest effort to know what belief is before you make up your mind. Of course this shit won't make sense to you so your opinion is next to meaningless.
>>76704995
Christianity.
Except not in any form its been. Religion is spirituality by extension and used to be such a big part of everyday life compared to now.
The further we move away from tradition the less we hold onto our morals. The goal should be to teach people to take everything in their respective bibles less literally and more metaphorical (the way it was probably intended)
Metaphorical stories need to be read by sometime who can see between the lines which would hopefully end in a better society.
>>76708261
According to physics the laws of the universe existed before the Big Bang... only Time Space and Energy came into existence after
>>76707610
>smug atheists petitioning for children not to be subjected to evil religion in classrooms and such.
because the separation of church and state is so ridiculous isn't it? allowing parents to teach their children the values they hold and not someone else's is just awful.
Just replace god with the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's not an Observation if it's not an Observation. You can put a sage stick in your ass and chant Jesus, but it does not mean it was the cause of you winning the lottery outside of your own belief. People are jamming random things together and calling it god to fit their forced narrative. The simple "Fact" is that no one knows, it being subjective means that no one is correct, it is down to personal belief.
>>76701281
>Christianity is red-pilled
I don't know anyone outside of /pol/ who thinks this.
I went to a Jesuit school and they are the most red-pilled Christians. Even they had trouble explaining some Catholic beliefs because they are mostly based on tradition.
>>76708404
I don't have them memorized and I'm tired and don't feel like doing research for others...
You can type in "scriptures about wives obeying their husbands" etc easily and get millions of results in multiple translations.
>>76708471
didn't know that, thanks man. how exactly did they ascertain that though?
>>76708053
>After a lightning quick refresher course, maybe Stoicism is basically the beneficial tenets of religion without the need for a religious belief...
Read this. This book made a true man out of me, unfettered. It literally changed my life for the better.
>>76708053
I don't think you are following what I am saying. Let me put it this way.
Does math exist? Or is it just that the idea of math exist?
In your position where "morality exists as a concept," is pretty meaningless. From your line of reasoning, anything can exist as a concept, but that doesn't mean we can make a leap to its existence as an actual entity. And no, you can't show morality just like you can't show a unicorn beyond it just being an idea.
>These assumptions, without assuming a full nihilistic point of view, are not arbitrary
What argument can make in naturalistic worldview that it is reasonable to anything without a nihilistic point of view?
>>76708307
I believe it is. I think God used Science and Math and all the mysterious beauty that we make great discoveries with as a gateway to understanding Him.
I think the universe is within our grasp but beyond our minds. We need to stop looking at it from a measly earthly perspective and think beyond ourselves, and Christ taught exactly that when he walked the earth.
>>76708488
Separation from church and state is to ensure a lack of theocracy. We have the freedom of religion in America, that means the freedom TO pray not the freedom FROM prayer. The only exception to this rule should be radical muslims or dangerous beliefs. Muslims in general are told to behead nonbelievers. Those people need to be removed from the earth.
>>76701281
>>76708553
They don't know for sure, that's just how scientists understand the universe
there's plenty of different theories on what happened before the big bang but none of them are provable because they require evidence that would have existed before the universe.
>>76708359
>This is the most retarded straw man argument I've ever heard.
You found the golden button to push. Nothing irritates me more than underdeveloped, cut in short critiques of an argument. I do not understand what you find retarded, and it bugs the hell out of me.
>>76708366
So you're saying people don't do what they will? That something is pulling their strings? How is it a fallacy? Good and Bad are man made constructs. If someone is in a structure and enjoys harming people, they are not a good person within that structure. A person's will demands what they do. If there was a bad system, and a person rejected it, their nature would dictate them as good by reversing it. In the end your will dictates what is good and bad. You should do more thinking and less following, you're a victem and trapped by your own self.
>>76708273
Possibly, but you're going down the path of Russell's Teapot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot - essentially it's a claim that can't be falsified, therefore it is scientifically irrelevant.
>>76708359
You have provided no evidence, if you have, please restate or at least link the post.
>>76708460
That's an idea, and maybe a good one. But, we could rewrite the book, and filter it down to core values and stories that represent them.
>>76708565
I will, actually that's been on my "to read" list for a long time, maybe it's time to stop fucking about and do it.
>>76708638
Math is a way we understand and count what we see before us. Math is a system to understand things involving numbers of things.
I may have worded it badly, I'm on round 3 of nyquil at this point, and I'm tired after a quite long day.
>>76708502
Religion is passed down tradition. Idiots throw all that away even though it has been passed down for generations of progress. Must have been a big ol coincidence, huh? Did you brush your teeth as a child because the idea came to you naturally, being so brilliant? Or did somebody teach you and have you go through the motions before you learned it was very very important?
>>76708660
why bother trying to come up with theories they can't find evidence for? isn't that kind of the whole point of science, to prove claims with evidence?
>>76708689
One simple reason. There is no such thing as true altruism.
No one does good for the benefit of others...
They do it to make themselves feel good about themselves "im a good person look at my works"
Or to get respect from their peers or experience and the feeling of being needed or wanted. No one does good just for the benefit of others.
All "altruists" do good for some small emotional or mental reward
Saying that christians do good because the Bible told them to do so isn't any better or worse than someone doing good because they feel good doing good.
>>76706795
Thats why you do as the Jesuits and question everything. In your eyes, absolute truth in regards to Christianity may not be entirely explained as you would like it, but you can gather what knowledge and truth you need from other places as well if you think in this way.
>>76708668
Forgive me I thought you were doing it on purpose.
The issue at hand is your comparing two completely unrelated issues:
>Treat others the way you want to be treated.
This is an old fashioned quote back in the day when each word had its own meaning and similes were few and far between. Treat (goodies/benevolent feeling) others the way (path, direction) you want to be treated.
Back in that day if Jesus or God were referring to lust or lustful desires they'd use just that: Lust or sinful desires rather than be so opaque about it.
>>76708796
You are comparing belief in a magical being in the clouds to being taught to brush your teeth. And using time and Tradition to justify the comparison. Are you fucking retarded? They are not comparable.
>>76708736
I have pointed out that you cannot engage Christianity from a stance of your own belief, you have to stand in our belief and apply your own logic (faulty logic) to it in order to feel you've accomplished anything. It's the biggest flaw of anti-theists.
>>76708736
>I will, actually that's been on my "to read" list for a long time, maybe it's time to stop fucking about and do it.
It's public domain now.
Start. It's written in the way of a religious document. Take it passage by passage. Bite by bite. It's not a novel. You're looking at a biblical text, more or less.
Good luck on your journey, friend.
>>76701926
> Waah I dont know if God is real or not!!!!111
> Redpilled
Pls pick one
>>76708899
Again, with the strawman.
>This thing you stated is wrong because of this completely other thing being ridiculous in the same scenario.
Argue the facts.
>>76708736
>Math is a system to understand things involving numbers of things.
Right, so math is really just an idea, and does not exist anymore than an idea of a unicorn. This is the same for an "idea of morality." Then it is clear that in your worldview, that morality is just a subjective idea of what is right and wrong. How then are you supposed to convince anyone that your "morality without magic" is the truth?
>>76708644
>Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34
anyone can cherry pick shitty verses from an old book, that doesn't make them all scum. I think Islam is scum because it aims to control the state and impose its will on nonbelievers. I also think Christians tend to be scum because they want the same thing, only more subtly so.
>>76708810
Theoretical astrophysics is all about coming up with theories that explain the universe.... it's an entire field of science.
Ofc they can't just make up things willy nilly they have to follow the known laws of the universe and make sense logically.
But since none of it is possibly provable I say the most logical idea is that God willed the Big Bang to happen and there isn't a single argument or theory that has more or less logical merit...
Other than saying it's wrong because "hurr durr creationism is stewpid"
>>76708865
I try not to get too caught in constructs. Good and Bad are man made. Depending on the structure, or a person's nature, their will will guide them to do what they think is right. Hence my statement previously, it is fact. A person does not need a book to tell them what is wrong or right, it is a choice they make themselves, they ether mold into a system; nurture vs nature, or build by their own thought.
>>76709058
Completely out of context. Jesus was saying His message of peace would cause great discourse among the people of the world, and it has.
This is also an allusion to the second coming where Jesus comes riding with an actual sword to wage war against the army of Satan.
>>76707819
Tell that yo Sweden, France, UK, Germany. They sure look like winners.
>>76708796
Nobody is arguing against teaching children, nor against tradition insofar as it pertains to enriching their lives.
My whole point is to prevent the tearing away of the positives of this thought and belief system without clinging on to the supernatural beliefs that are so easily made to be nothing more than delusions.
The good and the bad are falling away from society. I am extending a hand, to catch the good.
>>76708865
I can see selfish reasons for altruism. That the person will pay you back when you need it? That the strength of your group, and your social status being elevated in that elevated group is beneficial to you directly? And yes, you get a little serotonin kick when you do nice things for people, and I enjoy that.
>>76708959
If I have to be in your reference frame to apply my logic, then you would have to be in mine to apply yours. This is an impasse. Discussions end with impasses, without changing a single heart or enlightening one mind.
I want you to understand my worldview, and hopefully agree with it - but more importantly i'm trying to understand yours.
>>76708970
Thanks m8, didn't know that, was about to drop $5 for a paperback, but I'd rather read it on a tablet anyway, so, all the better.
>>76709037
Morality and maths exist, and are applied systems. Unicorns are a construct of fantasy. I am failing to grasp your point.
>>76709188
I don't have to play offense in this scenario, you do. I can sit in my zone of thought and debate your logic all night because by your own standards of debate every comment you make about religion being false while arguing from the stance of religion defeats your own argument.
>>76709072
I just think it's pointless to waste my time worrying about why the world came to be. I'd rather spend my time finding joy and happiness and spreading that joy and happiness to the people I love. if there is a God, and he banishes me to hell for being a good person and making others happy without having faith in him, then he's kind of a shit god.
>>76708444
The first sentence is just to point out an inherent flaw in the argument "treat others and you would yourself be treated". It opens up for misinterpretations. Exchange perverted behaviours to anything else that might be a condemnation in our culture, but not someone else's and you'll see the arbitrary nature of the statement.
>>76708546
Then you have failed. This cannot be constructive unless you commit, and you continue to respond so you're just doing a half ass job. Hope you don't do this in your daily life.
>>76708644
>I believe it is. I think God used Science and Math and all the mysterious beauty that we make great discoveries with as a gateway to understanding Him.
I agree with everything you write, but I exclude theism in favour of materialism and natural history.
In my opinion, accepting that we're a species of highly cognitive apes of a rock in space filled up to the brim with life is much more appealing. The sheer astronomical chance that you and I are here is astounding, and everything our species can accomplish.
My view can also predict our future in a more appealing fashion than theism can because there is no way you can prove prophecies about "God's return to earth" to cleanse anything. My view predicts how people will behave, because we're a natural species of apes, and we can study our cousin species to glimpse our primal nature that is still present within us.
It's just not a very constructive way of thought, in my opinion. But perhaps you can shed some light on why I may be wrong.
>>76709263
This, gentlemen, is the true flaw with anti theists and why arguing with them is complete retardation. When beaten they shrink back into the stalemate philosophy because any loss to the religious is a deadly blow to their pride.
>>76709157
Well, now, if Jesus comes down wielding a fuckhuge flaming sword of Righteousness +∞?
This agnostic atheist will take up right beside Him.
That'd be all the evidence I need, a living breathing visible God (or emissary/child thereof) that can display his power? Let's roll.
>>76709263
Literally what?
>>76709114
So why is it somehow worse to hold yourselves to a higher standard that you believe to have been thought up by a being higher than man
Why is following man's morality so great?
Why is doing good better because you passively learned from society and modernism what is good and bad?
We can't even decide if the death penalty or having abortions is good or bad or killign someone in self defense... I dont think humanity has morality down pat.
So why would you say it's better to be moral without religion than with it?
>>76709325
Hey brother we live in a free world and I'm glad you have your opinion. I've told you my side and I've listened to yours, so thank you for your time.
>>76709058
quran is just a better version of the roman bible in the purpose it was meant to be used at the time , they are both written by man
>>76709157
of course it was out of context, that was the point. notice how I said "anyone can cherry pick shitty verses". the point you didn't address is that both religions aim to control the state and push their will on those who don't follow their religion, which is deplorable.
>>76709342
You realize we can see that you're the same poster, right?
Or if you're referring to my previous post about frames of reference, I am calling that a stalemate, but I'm trying to move past that. Grinding a discussion to a halt is a loss for all involved. Please, prove me wrong. Open yourself up to be disproven. Engage in anything resembling a debate or discussion.
>>76709269
I find theories about the creation of the universe to be interesting, i like looking at all the different ideas... but its just intellectual stimulation it doesn't really satisfy you morally or spiritually.
As for God sending someone to hell because they didn't have faith in him... That one's harder to argue with.
>>76702681
This guy gets it.
Christianity, regardless of personal belief, should be adhered to because it creates a backbone of firm societal values that contribute to a healthy society.
>>76709269
Either the God fill force you to believe with vision or miracle or the devil will deceive you. There is no 3rd option.
>>76708877
Well, exclude any perverse behaviour and you still get the same results. Maybe you're bad at taking compliments, but you meet a person that's good at taking them.
You wish no compliments for yourself, but you're obeying the saying and doing nothing wrong when you in fact are doing wrong by not complimenting. It's a tiny gesture that is really essential.
>>76701281
Intellectual people live with ethics not with religious moral values.
>>76709522
Uh no... that's not how it works at all. Your line of thinking is called "predestination"
Just a short remainder why Sweden is cucked.
Morality is the concept of right and wrong, this counts for muder, rape, and physical things a person does. The worlds co-relate with actions a person does in the name of the word "good or bad" within the system they use. MAGIC, has no physical aspect, it is a word to describe the exploiting of supernatural forces. They can't be compared on a realistic level. One deals with actual actions and concepts of taking human life, and the other is fantasy. They are descriptive words we have invented to describe direct experience. Morality can be viewed as action, Spirituality is not comparable, action is separate. I really feel like everyone here is reading from a narrative of textobook studies rather than thinking through the self. Everything feels so agenda based, like I can feel your desire to force people live the way you want to because you yourself are not happy.
>>76709354
Ill respond to part 1 then part 2.
Hey man the way the biblical prophecy is going all we need is for Israel to rebuild the temple and for the world to turn against Israel. Then comes the rapture followed by about 7 years of hell on earth and then Jesus comes to save the remainder.
And I don't blame you for having difficulty of faith, I struggled with it for the longest time, being someone who adores science and scientific thought. It took me awhile to shift my mindset in a way that allowed for both to exist at once.
My statement was that you were attacking the Christian faith, as such I just need to defend it not attack the absence of faith altogether.
>>76709464
I was adding on to my post.
>>76709390
Too bad you have no wish to further explore what our two world can offer or exclude our minds from reaching.
>>76709655
I'm completely open to hearing anything you have to say.
I want to discover the mysterious of the universe. It's the great truths that hide behind the fabric of reality that inspired my scientific push when I was younger.
>>76709592
those religious countries are based because they're generally conservative overall, not just because they're more religious. if you had a conservative atheistic society, not much would change.
>>76709589
Yep, your final destination is predefined, just deal with it (book of life).
>>76701281
Would you please stop trying to apply sanity to /pol/?
Almost all posters here use "redpill" as a meme and never bother to use their brain to doubt established paradigms. This place is a joke. You're supposed to get entertained by the US-centric pseudo-intellectuals who spout their memes, racisms, phobias and their general, bitter hate of human beings.
Here, we support madmens like Drumpf, Shillary and Berncuck. Here, the Nazi scum, history's dumbest, have their virtual 3rd Reich. Of fucking course people here consider believing in Christianity to be redpilled. It makes sense, doesn't it?
>>76701926
Totally my point. Yes, STOPPING TO THINK is the true redpill. Exactly.
Look at this place, OP.
>>76708471
>before the Big Bang
>before
>Big Bang
you might want to re-check that.
>>76709735
>conservative atheistic society
Name me one.
>>76709778
This. Atheism is liberal in and of itself.
>>76709615
I'm not against faith, per se, I just feel like having it in the institutions of Man (Religion, for example) is a weakness, and can and will be exploited.
I do not personally believe in a God, but I don't say or think that it's an impossibility, just an unknowability.
When you devote yourself to a religion, you are devoting yourself to a man or group of men abusing the mouthpiece and mantle of God. That is a powerful thing, to be able to lie while speaking with absolute authority. This is a power that should be diminished.
I wish I could debate you on prophecy, I see it as a pretty strong self-fulfilling prophecy, but, a lot of the pieces of that puzzle *are* falling into place if you stretch the original words of the prophecy just a little. But i don't think it takes a true prophet to see that the Israel/Palestine and related conflicts will have a spectacularly shitty ending for many, one that people would describe as apocalyptic.
>>76709778
theoretically, sorry
>>76701281
>I don't understand how believing in Christianity is redpilled.
It's not.
The real question is why aren't you all living your lives. Everyone is so fixated on what everyone else is doing, where is your life? We are all here on 4chan. We already know, Christians and Path-walkers who push their narrative are a plague and need to be drowned. We already knew this Pol, they're just going to try and change who you are with the psychobabble, they do this because they themselves are sick people and have no sense of self, this is why they cling to "tradition" without it, they are nothing and have nothing.
>>76709879
Well, that's why the bible exists. It's not that old so it's easy to fact check it. NKJ version has it's own fuck ups.
The ability to preach effectively fully goes hand in hand with accuracy to the bible.
>>76709778
Czech Republic. More or less.
>>76710039
I'd like to point out it wasn't Christians who made this thread.
>>76710091
Czech republic is predominantly Christian.
>>76709778
Stalinist russia.
>>76710153
Pardon, I'm incorrect. Non religious is the largest religious belief.
>tfw somewhere between agnostic and converting to Orthodox Christianity
Help.
>>76710100
I'd like to point out that I said "and pathwalkers", people who dictate the correct way to be. My way is a paradox in that the dictation is there is no dictation. People trying to constantly make a point should be murdered, I will make a point in doing it buy doing it pointlessly. Seriously fuck lucifarians.
>>76701281
It is redpilled in the sense that people attribute the color red to the devil and jesus is the devil.
You take a very red pill there. That's what you get in heaven.
Come to hell instead
Saviours of souls whose goodness is not present on their followers seem fishy as fuck already, especially if they cannot do shit once you accept Satan by saying 'save me Satan', which is the way to accept Satan, a petition of salvation as if Satan were the name of God. This isn't because you've given up on your soul, as a god is able to recover any soul he desires. This is because you've given your soul to Satan, which is none other than the name of God, so there's no snatching it away from God anymore.
And the rest is roleplay by deceitful people.
Don't worry about "hell" we demons are very "sinful" people and will give you horrific sex and terrifying love and shit like that, and drugs and fun.
Come to hell, we'll leave jesus alone in "heaven", because he was a gud boi, dindu nuffin, miracles and shit.
>>76710167
Communism is extremely authoritarian liberal.
>>76710202
>Non religious is the largest religious belief.
Also at /pol/
http://www.strawpoll.me/10289721
>>76710279
Hell is fiction. This shit is getting boring.
>>76710153
Czechs pretty much shat on the church institution during and after soviet occupation, since the priests have proven to be extremely corrupted bastards who would sell Czech citizens to Ruskies for a pack of cigarettes. Right now only about 10% of Czechs see themselves as Christians.
>>76710277
I agree with this. The world in general could be less authoritarian.
>>76710279
And don't you worry about selling your soul three times to Satan and worshipping Satan and doing everything for Satan, and serving Satan only because even if you blaspheme daily the spirit of jesus by claiming reality, that he is the devil, he still forgives all of these unpardonable sins, even if he cannot snatch your soul anymore, he is still willing.
Gud boi who dindu nuffin surrounded by other dindu nuffins.
>>76709716
This has more to do with ourselves. Our technology can unlock certain mysteries about her university.
The predictions I'm talking about are behavioural patterns stemming from our natural history. In my opinion, believing us to be a product of a higher intelligence just grants us hubris, or do you disagree? If so, why?
In my worldview humanity nor any individual is a certainty, there is no place for hubris. Accepting what our natural origins can set us mentally freer. How? It enables us to rely on our self, our inner conscience to already have our compass set in place and constantly evolving. Tracking this evolution contextualizes everything as well.
>>76710039
Maybe /pol/ is a nice distraction.
>>76710405
And that's why Czech people are some of the best in the world and why Czech women or top tier marriage material.
>>76710398
Yup, the moment that after everyone insisting they wanted you in hell you take the plunge and accept Satan, everybody got tired of hell all of a sudden.
It is not cool anymore...
As if we lived surrounded by the very deceiving people of jesus, one is atheist, the other a muslim, but they all are of jesus the devil.
>>76710422
>her university.
Sorry, *our universe*
>>76710422
Honestly I think the product of us being of a higher being is the most humbling thing a person can acknowledge. This is delving into my opinion rather than fact though, but factually humans have failed to "get the point" more and more as time goes on when it comes to Christs teachings.
I think it's humbling because it's admitting that we don't know everything, and while we might learn "most" or "almost everything" there will always be mysteries hiding in the universe.
Id politely also like to point out that God doesn't expect people to wholly sit around waiting for Him to take the reigns. God helps those who help themselves. He expects people to take the initiative rather than complacently wait for Him to decide.
>>76709188
>Morality and maths exist, and are applied systems
morality and maths exists only as ideas in your world view because you rejected the existence of the metaphysical. So only math and morality are just ideas like a unicorn is an idea.
This main issue is that you are trying to show that morality exists empirically (you can't because morality is metaphysical) so that you can come up with objective claims of morality.
>>76710505
True. Just compare it to Poland, where the church (with the applause of various post-communist scum disguised as "right-winged") managed to fool the citizens to see it as the embodiment of fight against communism, despite doing the same as the Czech church.
>>76710735
>I think it's humbling because it's admitting that we don't know everything, and while we might learn "most" or "almost everything" there will always be mysteries hiding in the universe.
I believe this is my stance as well, but not because of your reason.
We must indeed be able to admit that we do not know everything, the scientific method encourages us to do so, but also enourages us explain in as great a detail as we can manage based on facts what we do know.
I don't see how a belief in God encourages us to admit we do not know, God is still an answer even if it's "Only God knows".
>Id politely also like to point out that God doesn't expect people to wholly sit around waiting for Him to take the reigns. God helps those who help themselves. He expects people to take the initiative rather than complacently wait for Him to decide.
See this is a terrible marsh to find yourself in. How can you claim believing in a God is humbling when you're eager to tell me this God's wants and wishes? You're speaking for someone else, not yourself. This is not humble.
>It seems just very stupid to actually BELIEVING that what happened in the Bible is true and that it's the word of God.
oh look! It's another dumb ass atheist retard cuck who doesn't understand the function of the church and religion in the first place.
fuck you. you may come back once you realize that religion isn't about hyperrationalism or logic wanking. now go shove it up Dawkins asshole, because that's what's "le reasonable thing to do", right?
>>76710759
morality is a thing, unicorns are not
>>76711906
it's like talking to a brick wall. go read up on metaphysics and tell me that morality exists in a naturalistic worldview
>>76711581
What is this hyperhostile shit?
>>76712178
You're being obstinate - you keep saying math and morality are like a unicorn, when they are not. A unicorn is not a system by which we make real something that is not graspable in your hand.
>>76713211
Math, morality, and unicorns are all ideas. They do not exist in the same way that you and I do. This means that they are empirically unverifiable. Unless you accept the possibility of the supernatural, morality is simply just an idea that has no objective grounds on what is right and wrong. It is simply a preference. So in your original post, attempting to come up with a set of morals without the supernatural" is futile. The fact that you believe morality exists outside of just an idea means that your naturalistic worldview is inconsistent with what you are claiming.
>>76701281
Christianity is the definition of the blue pill.
>>76701926
See pic.
>>76713673
Without the framework of mathematics we cannot understand much of the universe, just because you cannot hold it in your hand doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Moral "preferences" that would be encouraged would be ones that further us as a group.
>>76701926
Too bad it's not a thing.
>>76713673
I don't believe it's some mystic force, it's just pretty easily defined as actions that benefit someone other than yourself. Not unicorns. You keep trying to box me in this naturalism thing, that's your box, not mine.
>>76714199
>>76714140
> just because you cannot hold it in your hand doesn't mean it doesn't exist
I never even said that. I said that math and morality do not exist any more than just ideas, because they cannot be empirically verified.
> Moral "preferences" that would be encouraged would be ones that further us as a group
Back to square one. Your claim is arbitrary. There is no objective grounding in your morals so you really have no way showing that your morality is the right one.
>You keep trying to box me in this naturalism thing.
Except you do subscribe to naturalism, because you do not believe in the "supernatural" (i.e everything that cannot be empirically verified, which includes morality).
Refer to these posts >>76706698
>>76706287
>>76712178
Neo-Atheists are a brick wall filled with socialist/ voltaire propaganda
>>76710505
>Czech women are top tier marriage material.
18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
- 1 Corinthians 1:18-31
>>76701281
Truths don't keep morality and society on their feet, beliefs do. Until the age of the Imperium of Man, Christianity is realistically the best thing to believe in, simple as that
>>76701281
You try way too hard to appear intelligent. I hate how atheists think they are SUPER SCIENCE MAN!11!!! When most likely they are a fat, lonely, balding slob who drank way too much Mountain Dew.
