For all things Christian
Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants alike are welcome to discuss theology. Try to be polite.
Atheists also welcome, but try to be constructive.
Pastebin for believers and curious folk.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Pastebin for Orthodox
http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x
Today's readings (Catholic):
Reading: 1 Kings 17:1-6
Psalm: 121:1-8
Gospel: Matt 5:1-12
Good Scenes to watch
>Jesus Anime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d-uB0vaoQo
>Jesus of Nazareth Sermon on the Mount:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDCbJ4vnMNg
>Jesus chases Jews out of the Temple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEtBs6j7QgU
>Jesus gives sight to the Blind....and takes sight from those who can see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY7vamVg99E
>Roman Centurion has more faith than anyone in Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNLSBjYDPko
>Ben Hur scenes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVlf7OiiTJE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbt2UUthWg0
>Why Atheists shouldn't discourage Christianity even if they don't believe in it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqQdc0mX1_c
>Thread Theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5YEKO04RDI
First for Jesus
St Augustine's City of God demonstrates how Christians were really terribly unpatriotic at the end of the Roman Empire in the West
They couldn't give a hoot about the world they lived in, and were madly obsessed with the afterlife and heaven.
>>76350524
Why do people insist on lumping all Protestants together?
>>76350871
Good for them
>>76351008
Easier to attack that way
Do you believe in or deny the existence of Evolution?
>>76351008
Its a matter of ecclesiology. They think each Protestant denomination considers itself the only one true church.
>>76350524
sola fide and sola scriptura are positives.
Btw roman catholics and eo are terribly liberal in their own regard
EO is just falling in number. I guess kids these days dont want to LARP
>>76351207
What do you mean by 'evolution'?
>>76351207
Deny. Only Papist and liberals affirm it.
>>76351273
Its a bait and switch term really. I believe in microevolution in other words adaption but I deny abiogenesis and speciation.
>>76351008
Why do people insist on lumping all atheists together?
>>76351370
Atheism is pretty much the same. It leads to materialism, naturalism, nihilism, subjective truth, nihilistic morality and irrationalism.
>>76351366
>I believe in microevolution in other words adaption but I deny abiogenesis and speciation.
That doesn't make sense. You believe evolution occurs but don't believe evolution can change a species?
>>76351366
Agreed, I was gonna call him out on it, lel. I, like you, believe in microevolution, but macroevolution... no.
>>76351370
Because they all believe in the nonexistence of God and that's as far as the belief stretches, while Protestants believe in dozens of different things
>>76351207
>>76351555
Materialism, naturalism, nihilism, subjective truth, nihilistic morality and irrationalism are good things tho
What's a good part of the bible that would be great if adapted into a musical like Jesus Christ Superstar?
>>76350524
At first thought the one at the right was episcopals
>>76351687
But the nonexistence of God isn't the life for most atheists, other than dumb youtubers and their dumb teenage fans.
All religious Christians' lives revolve around God because they believe in him.
>>76351008
Catholics and Orthodox have different Churches inside them too for that matter
>>76351580
What are you even saying? Species can adapt and adopt new features but not become entirely different species.
>>76351687
The worst part about atheism is that they think they can take God out of the picture and still keep a cogent philosophical worldview. However as atheist philosophers have shown us you get what I mentioned above. No objective truth and moral nihilism.
I mean if atheists are right what's the point in hanging in this thread to tell us we are wrong? Snort some coke and die.
Where would be the most interesting states/countries to be a Catholic priest?
I'm joining the priesthood soon, and I'm weighing my options.
>>76351370
>>76351687
One bad apple ruins the batch
Especially on /pol/
>>76352066
Don't make that mistake man. Study up on the corruption of the Roman church.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bVEXZ38Vs8
If you can't refute this then don't become one.
>>76351276
I'm a papist that denies it.
I haven't been to my local parish for a long while but I'm getting back into attending mass because I want to rebuild my faith in God. I also want to join the church choir, but I don't want to make it awkward by joining if I'm not a regular attendee of the church. How long should I attend mass before volunteering to join the choir?
>>76352208
You're a dying a breed.
>>76352066
Catholicism is retarded
>>76352189
I was just watching this documentary earlier this morning. Based anon.
>>76352066
I'm just going to stay within ~100 miles of my family. I thought about going somewhere further for the priesthood, but the truth is that it can get lonely. If you have a family you're close to, it's best to just stay near them.
God bless you and good luck in your vocation.
>>76351967
>>What are you even saying? Species can adapt and adopt new features but not become entirely different species.
When a species adapts, its genetic code is changed and it passes those changes down to descendants. This can happen in mere hundreds of years. Look at lactose-tolerance.
Now imagine thousands of these localized changes being made over millions of years. Do you really expect them to be the same species?
>>76352189
>>76352392
>poisoning your mind with the deception of the devil
why not pray those 8 hours instead?
>>76352271
I don't see anything wrong with signing up right away. People love if you're active in the parish.
For example, I recently joined a new parish and the same weekend signed up for the Bible study. The people were welcoming and happy to have a new face. This would probably be the same for you, anon.
Best of luck. :)
>>76352189
>8 hours
I'm willing to hear your arguments, but holy shit that's TLDR
>only the priests are smart enough to interpret scripture
>We are not blessed the same way
>we are smart enough to defend them though even though we aren't smart enough to understand their interpretations
So basically, you have your oracles, literally speaking in tongues during the Latin parts.
If you can't even understand what they're saying without them explaining their words, how are you smart enough to defend them?
>>76352781
>>76352615
Why do protestants have such a "holier than thou" attitude?
I guarantee that in the next 30 minutes they will start calling us pagans.
>>76352989
Get your counter memes ready
Throughout all this though, most Romans continued to honor their traditional pantheon of gods and goddess. Sacrifices to Jupiter were still made. The Vestal Virgins still tended the sacred fire in Rome that, it was said, could not be allowed to go out.
This all changed with the coming of Theodosius the Great. In February of 380 AD, Theodosius declared Christianity, based on the Nicene Creed, as the only official religion of Rome. In 382 AD, the Alter of Victory was removed from the Curia forever and destroyed. The Ancient Olympic Games, a religious festival as much as an athletic competition, were last held in 393 AD and eventually banned. In 394 AD, Theodosius disbanded the Vestal Virgins and has the sacred flame extinguished. Temples were converted to churches or destroyed. Participating in any pagan religious right or ceremony was considered, essentially, treason and grounds for execution.
Theodosius the Great died in 395 AD. Upon his death, the Roman Empire was split into an eastern half and a western half, each governed by one of his sons. The empire would never be united again. In 410 AD, just thirty years after the adoption of Christianity as the official religion of Rome, the Visigoth under Alaric I sacked Rome. This was the first time a foreign army had sacked Rome in almost 800 years. Only sixty years later, as mentioned above, Romulus Augustulus was deposed and the Roman Empire was gone forever.
>>76352975
90% of Catholic parishes are vernacular (mass is said in the local language).
Latin parishes are rare to find.
>>76351916
Do they vary as much as Protestant churches though? I don't think so. Protestants range from wacky stuff that doesn't make any sense to simple fundamentalist Christians. Some extremely anti-homosexuality and some very open to and accepting of homosexuality, and so on
>>76351555
Stoic masterrace inbound.
You might be right about fedoras, but religion isn't great either. Being virtuous out of fear of god instead of for yourself isn't how one should live, and also leaves you vulnerable to dogma, no better than a libturd.
>>76352572
Yes I do
>>76352781
That's 1500 years of heresies to correct and he doesn't address ALL of them.
- Inclusion of the apocrypha
- Praying to the saints
- Mary's high status as co-redemptrix held by many highly esteemed people in the RCC such as Doctor Alfonso
- Celibacy as a requirement
- Papacy
- Purgatory
- "Sola Ecclesia"/Sacred Tradition is equivalent to scripture
- Papal infallibility
- Mary's bodily resurrection
- The mass
Different but shorter video made by the same guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJwa5FVo-fs
I mean you are dedicating your life to becoming a priest. You might as well watch an eight hour video.
>>76352615
Look we know you are a roleplaying LARPer and that you can't hold a serious discussion and that's why you resort to memes but if you can't refute it shut-up.
>>76353154
>>76353178
It's been a while since I've seen you in one of these threads, brother. Welcome back.
I remember last time you debated that atheist for a few hours, it was great.
>>76352989
it goes usually like this, in chronological order:
1) Luther meme picture
2) pope washing muslim feet
3) idolatry
4) mary was a sinner and died
5) catholic church killed 68 gorillion jew-ahem-protestants
go to 1) and repeat
>>76353255
No they don't. Those that belong to the Catholi Church have to be in full communion. The Orthodox Churches usually agree 95% with one another I think, so there's a bit less unity but they overall agree on the doctrine
>>76353260
What is virtuous living? What is good and bad? How do you objectively measure these without coming back to the fundamental issue faced by atheists.
>>76351907
I'm not saying they should be lumped together in how they behave or what they're like, I'm just saying they all believe the same thing when it comes to God, while Protestants have different beliefs about God and how they should worship him
>>76353380
>Look we know you are a roleplaying LARPer and that you can't hold a serious discussion and that's why you resort to memes but if you can't refute it shut-up.
so much projection
>>76352989
Insecurities.
The vast majority of protestant church's are shacks filled with rednecks. Their leaders take no vows, unlike priests. They don't have the sacraments and structure that we do. These make them feels insecure in their faith, so they lash out against us.
Pic related.
>>76353584
John 3:16
I will cease to reply to the bong so he can sleep. Peace.
>>76353138
God new Judas would. That doesn't mean Judas had to, since it's also possible God new Judas wouldn't, and in some world Judas didn't.
>>76353700
I'm familiar with it. What's your point?
>>76353470
> I remember last time you debated that atheist for a few hours, it was great.
I don't think that was me
I am on the pro-atheistic side
>>76353662
> unironically reaffirms what I was saying
>>76353686
I can't hold all these generalizations.
Also have you not seen the great amount of Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran and Presbyterian churches and cathedrals?
>>76353260
This is a false quote of Aurelius; he was quite a devout "pagan". It's a very commonly attributed quote.
Are catholics required to believe that the Pope is chosen by God and his word is holy?
I'm seriously concerned that this pro-Islam, pro-Comminism, all religions are true, "Europe should be ashamed of its herratige" scum is actually converting people in Catholic majority nations like Australia and Ireland to leftism and pseudo-atheism.
>>76353741
>/new/
Knew. Have mercy typos.
>>76353380
>>Yes I do
There are 1371253 animal species on earth right now. If you assumed none of those species evolved since the time of Noah, do you really believe he fit 2742506 (two million, seven hundred and fourty two thousand, five hundred and six) animals on a boat he built in seven days?
>>76353260
>posting fake quotes
>>76353811
A saving Faith is what saves
>>76353260
>>76353846
The origin of this misquotation likely derives from this phrase from Meditations
>Since it is possible that thou mayest depart from life this very moment, regulate every act and thought accordingly. But to go away from among men, if there are gods, is not a thing to be afraid of, for the gods will not involve thee in evil; but if indeed they do not exist, or if they have no concern about human affairs, what is it to me to live in a universe devoid of gods or devoid of Providence? But Gods there are, undoubtedly, and they regard human affairs; and have put it wholly in our power, that we should not fall into what is truly evil
>>76353741
Did you read up on the canon of the NT? Or do you still think Paul's writings are uninspired? Even though he claims they were.
>>76353819
The ones stolen from the Catholic church?
>>76353819
>> unironically reaffirms what I was saying
>still projecting and strawmanning
>>76351008
>>76351370
Because they are all heretics
>>76353943
I know that. There's still wide differences among Protestant churches
>>76353903
No. This has been addressed by creationists. He would have carried the ancestors of many animals. Also exclude all the sea animals too.
>>76353889
this should clear your doubts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magisterium
It tells you when it is you are required to listen to the Pope. In all other instances you can pretty much ignore him completely
>>76353982
>muh straw man!!
Kek, nice straw man
After Constantine's deathbed conversion, many Roman aristocrats turned to lives of monasticism.
Instead of going into politics or the army, the best and the brightest of Rome rejected wordly life and became monks.
This created a major brain drain on Roman society.
>>76354069
Examples I don't include Jw or Mormons as Protestants
>>76353979
Not all of them. I do like high-church symbolism. But how is that relevant? Theology is more important and currently Rome is just a mill that pumps out heresies.
>>76353982
Thank you for confirming you are retarded. If someone could be so kind to teach me how to filter someone I'd be thankful.
>>76354108
Thanks mate
>>76353889
>Pope says gay marriage is from satan
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/pope-francis-same-sex-marriage-move-father-lies-total-rejection-gods-law
>Pope Francis speaks against Gay adoption
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/pope-francis-shocked-by-gay-adoption-urges-bishop-to-speak-against-it-boldly/
>Compares trans rights to nuclear arms race
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pope-francis-compares-arguments-for-transgender-rights-to-nuclear-arms-race-10061223.html
>Pope Francis says that there's no salvation outside the Church
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2013/06/03/pope-francis-is-under-attack-for-saying-that-outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation-its-a-poke-in-the-eye-says-one-presbyterian-why-hes-wrong/
>He excommunicates an Australian priest supporting gay marriage and women clergy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-greg-reynolds_n_3983059.html
>Pope Francis is against gender theory and for traditional gender roles
http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-francis-gender-theory-problem-not-solution
>Pope is against abortion
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/09/23/pope-francis-on-abortions-innocent-victims-its-wrong-to-look-the-other-way-or-remain-silent/
>He Encourages the use of force against ISIS
http://www.businessinsider.com/pope-francis-endorses-use-of-force-against-isis-in-iraq-2014-8
>Pope Francis is against lukewarm "faith"
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-off-the-cuff-to-priests-religious-indifference-makes-god-vomit-69700/
>The Pope is misquoted often
http://www.christianpost.com/buzzvine/7-times-pope-francis-was-misquoted-132679/
>The Pope Rebukes Communist Cross
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/11729834/Pope-rebukes-Bolivias-President-Evo-Morales-for-gift-of-crucifix-mounted-on-hammer-and-sickle.html
>>76354074
>He would have carried the ancestors of many animals
What does that mean? How do you explain the animals he saved becoming over a million distinct species that exist today without evolution?
>>76354164
Quite wrong. A lot of high ranking pagans transferred their position into a high ranking position in the Roman church becoming cardinals and bishops.
>>76353819
>great amount of Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran and Presbyterian churches and cathedrals?
You mean previously Roman Catholic churches?
>>76354229
>all this heretic butthurt
>>76354286
Do you consider a bull-dog a different species from a German shepherd?
>>76353953
>Even though he claims they were
In what world does self-testimony count as making a proposition more likely true than not?
>>76354352
Not sure why you think what you wrote contradicts me
>>76354352
What do you guys think of Moral Orel, The Last Temptation of Christ, Binding of Isaac, Shin Megami Tensei and Jesus Christ Superstar?
>>76354356
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Paul%27s_Cathedral
>>76354351
>>76354351
>>76353889
>Pope is chosen by God
No he is not. Even Pope Benedict backed this up.
>>76354459
Obviously. No two bulldogs mating will provide a german shepherd offspring, and no two german shepherds will provide a bulldog offspring.
Are you seriously trying to argue against that?
>>76354487
what is that picture even trying to say, it looks like a middle schooler made it
>>76353899
>I don't know how you could instantiate any level of precision better than a question mark.
Through the application of predictive analysis. Situations and behaviors repeat, and people rarely change.
>Your argument says that I have somewhere between zero assurance and a complete unknown assurance that I will get the money.
>Yes. That's the case. There is no law of nature that gives you any assurance that the friend will in fact lend that money tomorrow.
>I would say you have no more reason to believe he will lend you the money tomorrow than that he won't.
You are proposing an absurdly skeptical epistemology. The sun will rise tomorrow is not a technical certainty. Will you conclude that there is no more reason to believe that it will rise than not? We have information on the system; it is absurdist to suggest we not consider that information in determining the probability of occurrences.
>I'm taking the problem of induction more seriously, I think, than you might want to.
No, you are taking the imprecision of induction and, instead of considering the value of the information we have, are throwing it all out the window. That isn't taking it more seriously, that is giving it far less consideration.
>>76354542
Sub-par, even this small church looks much better.
>>76354779
not an argument
>>76354479
The early church affirmed the inspiration of his text. Also why would a guy who hates Christ later go onto devote his life to him and die because of persecution lie?
>>76354741
Hahaha I am arguing with a leftist redditor. This is the second time you're trying to put words in my mouth
>>76354741
No two Jane and John will ever produce a Jane or a John either. Guess humans aren't humans.
>>76354524
Haven't seen, haven't seen, fun game, fun games, and I think I remember enjoying it as a child.
>>76350524
Anyone have the other version of this picture? With the norse pagan included
>>76354947
You're talking about sexes. I'm talking about species. Are you baiting or actually retarded?
>>76354929
Do you consider a bull-dog a different species from a German shepherd?
>>76354851
Why do I care what some other people did or didn't accept?
I don't think Paul hated Christ. I tend to believe he was actually a good guy with good intentions. But he was entirely fallible and he made decisions and spoke in ways that I think are far more self-inspired than God inspired.
>>76355114
Is any part of the Bible inspired and how do you know?
>>76355047
I wonder why Jane the bulldog and John the German shepherd can breed then?
>>76355193
All of the Gospels. I don't know. Just like you don't either - you take it on faith. Same as me senpai.
>>76355248
Are donkeys and horses the same species just because they can produce mules?
>>76355248
Jane had her tubes tied
>>76355313
You're awfully ignorant of NT canonics
>>76354351
This isn't /b/
>>76354542
>St. Paul's - A protestant cathedral in a protestant country. Second largest cathedral in England.
>Westminster Cathedral - a Roman Catholic cathedral in a protestant country. The largest cathedral in England.
You can't make this shit up.
>>76355397
Mules can't breed. Joe the German-bulldog can.
>>76355398
Rip Jane's breeding future.
>>76355423
You arbitrarily decide what is canon. I don't have to care about your opinion.
>>76353380
None of the Early Church fathers are Proturds. This pic destroys all who suscribe to the heresy of sola Scriptura
>>76353819
>Anglicans
They have wealth, yes but it's pretty easy to be dismissive of them considering the only reason their denomination exists, is because King Henry was pissed he couldn't get a divorce.
>Lutherans
Every Lutheran I've ever known has been white-trash. Also, they are the biggest hypocrites and cherry-pickers. Martin Luther emphasized sola scriptura, yet the first thing he did was remove books from the Bible.
>Episcopalians
This is just the American branch of Anglicanism. See above.
>Presbyterians
lol
>>76355535
The early church Fathers, who were direct or second generation understudies of the apostles had an idea of biblical canon
>>76355548
>logical fallacies "destroying" anyone
Protesrants explain
>>76354270
Doesn't this just show he's a flip flipper?
The 7 Misquoted lines piece couldn't refute that Francis' contempt for Catholic social conservstism was out of context or otherwise, merely that his actions "show the contrary". How do they show otherwise if he himself provides more and more weight to these arguments when his mail is leaked and otherwise.
A lot of these quotes are freudian slips of sorts, especially his joy that Europe will be repopulated with Muslims. He wont go back on it. He supports it through every appearance he's made
>>76355651
They had an idea of it. Whether they were right or not is another question. They put down what they put down.
>>76355443
>protestants will never worship Our Lord in a Church like this
>>76355656
Posting facts and scholarly sources isn't fallacy. You are better off sucking my dick
Catholics draw their demographic base from Mexicans. Who would want to associate with that?
>>76355797
Appealing to authority/tradition is, indeed, a fallacy, good sir bong.
>>76355723
Is Jesus also a door and a Shepard. Jesus did use symbols he wasn't literally a lamb
>>76355835
niggers in the US are protestants. Who would want to associate with that?
>>76351008
Why do people insist on lumping all lumpers together.
>>76355848
Tell that to the Early Christians and the authors of the NT
Does anyone listen to religious based music? What does everybody think of Coloring Book?
>>76355781
>Tfw there are no beautiful Catholic churches near you.
>>76355535
Of course one believes scripture is inspired because of faith however there are arguments that they can use to defend them
>>76355548
Tradition is fine under Protestantism and many of the apostles would have had a similar view of orthodoxy but when you now have views like purgatory which can't be defend by scripture and are only believed because of tradition then you have an issue (see Patrick Madrid).
>>76355627
Look I don't care too much about these things. Your religion is pagan so its all outwards for you. But your theology is faulty and bankrupt.
> They have wealth, yes but it's pretty easy to be dismissive of them considering the only reason their denomination exists, is because King Henry was pissed he couldn't get a divorce.
No. The CoE developed separately and has existed since the 300s.
> Martin Luther emphasized sola scriptura, yet the first thing he did was remove books from the Bible.
Nice bait. You act as if these arguments havent been addressed?
St. Jerome who translated the Bible into Latin originally translated only 66 or how about Pope Gregory the Great supporting 66 books.
>>76353230
>not posting /pol/ approved Mother and child
>>76355932
Most of us have separate churches though
>>76355976
I would if they weren't dead. Maybe in heaven.
>>76355848
Isn't Jesus the ultimate authority? Aren't you committing a fallacy when you say that something is right because Jesus says so? By that definition you might as well be an atheist. You are just a stupid troll
Why are Calvinists Gnostics?
>>76355723
I didn't know Ignatius's writings were inspired?
>>76355848
An appeal to authority is only fallacious if the authority is fallacious.
>>76356024
;_;
>>76356147
We're not
>>76356027
There are arguments, sure. But what kinds of arguments they are is important. You can give me reasons I might want to believe x has quality y, but that's different than giving be a reason to believe x *does have* quality y as a matter of fact or truth.
>>76356046
Heaven is where i would ravage you but with lube
To make this real simple, let's pretend all canids (dogs, wolves, foxes) are one species. That's still 1,271,220 independent species that need to fit on Noah's ark to produce all the non-extinct animal species that exist on Earth (without evolution).
God gave us reason and logic for a reason. Please don't reject His gifts.
>>76356127
Not in that case, since God existentially determines what is right as a matter of universal fact. The problem with appeals to non-God authorities is that whatever they say *doesn't* necessarily correlate to universal Truth - it's a fallacy when men are appealed to, but not when God is because of that.
>>76356192
>>76355781
Looks comfy. Have you ever been to Rome or the Vatican? I'd love to go in the next few years.
>>76356226
Oh yeah I remember you. You're that atheist shitposter. lel
>>76356357
Noah only had to bring kinds on the ark
>>76356357
Its not hard when 90% of it are insects
>>76356209
You and the Gnostics deny free will and advocate predestination. You cannot believe in a loving God if you are calvinist for this deity is so deceitful that he creates the illusion of self determination in humans when there is in fact none given predestination
http://www.easterbrooks.com/personal/calendar/index.php
OP, this website updates daily with the latest liturgy, readings, memorials, and rosaries. You can just copy it in to the general for us.
>>76356395
>>76356388
> all of these aestheticism
> still going to hell for denying jesus's perfect work on the cross
>>76355835
I've only seen a few Mexican Catholics in my life. Literally 99% of parishioners in churches are white.
>>76356192
There are some decent ones in Toronto but they don't compare to the ones in Europe.
>>76356190
Can you determine whether an authority is telling lies or falsities when it comes to past time-states you can't experience, and whose propositions concern phenomena you couldn't verify even if they were around?
>>76349926
What do you guys think about Celtic Christianity?
>>76356357
It's obvious from before you're a shitposter
>>76356457
I present to you semi-compatabalism
But can you explain why we need free will to have moral responsibility?
And what do you mean by loving? God is only loving to his elect
That's not the Protestant base, though. Not even in the black infested south are there more black protestants than white protestants. On the other hand, the average Catholic in the West and South is some poor, stupid, brown person.
>>76356027
Protestants don't follow Tradition as Lane had outlined. This is why he himself took great care to distinguish between the Protestant view and thAt of the Early Church.
why is the book of enoch not in the bible? Is the book of enoch important even though it's technically not scripture? Were there giants that lived on earth that were offspring of male angels and human females? Is hillary clinton the antichrist?
>>76356376
>Not in that case, since God existentially determines what is right as a matter of universal fact
Tradition comes from the instructions Jesus gave to the apostles.
>The problem with appeals to non-God authorities is that whatever they say *doesn't* necessarily correlate to universal Truth
The problem is that you reject the authority of the Church fathers who were instructed by the apostles (who were instructed by Jesus) by appealing to the authority of your own understanding of Christianity. Even if you don't accept that tradition comes from Jesus and therefore God, you oppose to a more authoritative human understanding of doctrine, your own personal, less authoritative in everyway and still HUMAN understanding of christianity. Basically, unless you are speaking directly to God (which isn't the case) you have no right nor authority to rebuke what Church fathers unanimously taught
>>76356018
>religious based music
I listen to some Gregorian Chants. I guess I'll give Chance a go. Any other Christian rappers?
>>76356024
MasstTimes.org
You can find some churches on there, my friend. :)
>>76356645
>But can you explain why we need free will to have moral responsibility?
Can you explain to me in what world a leaf can be morally culpable for being moved by the wind?
>>76356457
We have choice, we just can't choose God without his help.
Gnostics worship a God known as Sophia who took the form of the serpeant in the Garden, Gnostics literally worship satan, I worship a totally sovereign God, who is Triune, and the creator of the universe
>>76356490
>implying we deny it
>implying it isn't you who have faulty doctrine
lmao
>>76356534
It makes sense. They are more recente after all. The old ones are the best. Check out this sanctuary.
>>76356636
Irish monks are the reason we're all still Christian today.
>>76356730
Or they're lying about it. Intentionally or not.
I don't appeal to my authority - I tell you straight up I don't know the truth of the matter. But you don't either. Which is why I bash you.
>>76356645
That Doesn't work when everything is ultimately caused and part of God's own plan! This means that any "choice" or "act" made is in fact placed there intentionally by God himself. This is simply akin to me controlling a wind up toy. It moves but not of its own will but mine even if I didn't directly push it!
>>76356756
There is a church 5 minute walking distance from my house that I have been going to since I was born.
>>76356939
Aren't you an atheist?
Also yes!
>>76356780
The Gnostic believe the same too even if it is some other deity doing it. Your dishonest presentation of Calvinism here is disgusting. The fact of predestination entails that nobody makes choices. The fucking Catholics basically believe in that definition you placed! Even the Arminians!
>>76356937
>Or they're lying about it. Intentionally or not.
So you have a bias towards them and you are assuming they either lie or are wrong without any motivation? And you call yourself a rational person. L M A O
> I tell you straight up I don't know the truth of the matter
>u can't no nuffing
that cop-out. L M A O
>>76357065
Thank you for showing us all your agreement to what Calvinism is!
>>76356636
Some culture you'll enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxzM_Y0cYJA
>>76356588
No, I'm not equipped to comfortably determine whether an authority is telling the truth in any field but my own. I don't have the capacity to recreate physics experiments or go into orbit around the earth either.
I can determine whether or not an authority has a reasonable claim to being an authority. Which is what the argument to authority's validity rests on.
>>76356483
Favorited the site. Thanks.
>>76357214
God created everyone with a will, it's just not libertarian free will. Judas iscariot is a good example
>>76357241
I have a bias against some people, sure. But I don't say "they are wrong", I say "I don't think they're right". And there's no reason I should think they're right that isn't a logical fallacy. You Catholics are really bad at convincing people.
You in particular are also quite a prolific shitposter ;)
>>76353686
i dont get it how catholics can be proud of pic
it's like they dont even know
>>76357352
>I can determine whether or not an authority has a reasonable claim to being an authority
Freudian psychologists and astrologists did - and a few still do - believe they can do the same.
>>76357372
That's akin to me saying that a wind up toy that moves simply because I twist the wind up has "will". This is what Compatabilism with a deity looks like
>>76357214
I mean predestination is kinda biblical I'm I'm sorry if this hurts your feels
>>76357395
>I have a bias against some people
why do you have a bias against church fathers?
>I say "I don't think they're right".
so why don't you think they are right?7
>And there's no reason I should think they're right that isn't a logical fallacy.
I have already showed you that believing what the church fathers said, or rather, believing their views on doctrine and interpretation of scripture is not a fallacy, even if you don't blieve their views directly came from God.
> You Catholics are really bad at convincing people.
Before we can convince you, you must first convince yourself and dissipate your prejudices and superstition.
Also it is obviously hard to accept truth, anon. We know that. Much easier to create a version of Christianity based on your personal feelings.
>You in particular are also quite a prolific shitposter ;)
Pot calling the kettle black
>>76357426
How can Protestants so arrogantly claim Early Christianity as theirs and deny science when evidence points to the contrary!
Please explain to me why Islam is a lie, but Christianity is the true religion of God? Or really any other religion for that matter?
>>76357334
Thank you, that seems interesting.
>>76357598
It's not. Only the Gnostics believed in it heretic
>>76357573
Well if God wanted everyone to Go to Heaven, then they would go there, but Calvinist understand that's not the case, you don't have to be a Calvinist to go to heaven though, we are just biblically consistent
>>76357684
more on the subject
>>76357711
Islam is a combination of Judaism, Christianity, Arabic paganism and Mohammed's insecurities.
>Satan is the most powerful being God created
>Literally tricked God himself, deceived the whole world and turned his naughty corner into a Kingdom within a few years
Based as fuck, would rather Satan than YHWH.
>>76357769
Eph1
Romans 8
John 6:37
I'll start you off with these. Let me know when your done reading
>>76357426
>>76357681
Why should I?
Believing other people just because they tell you they have the answers isn't wise, and I won't do it. It's not fallacious to believe anything you want, but trying to *argue* that other people should believe something *because of* fallacious reasons is - in fact - fallacious.
Just because you call people authorities or call something tradition doesn't make something true that comes from them.
>>76357809
A Calvinist must believe in a deity that deceives by giving humans the illusion of self determination when they have in fact none!
>>76357890
You shill the same thing in every /csg/ thread.
>>76357441
A number of issues here:
- The Patristics didn't agree on everything
- The church fathers aren't inspired
- ANS Lane is an Anglican
- You don't understand Protestantism
- You don't understand Calvinism
- You're an atheist
- You don't respond to things you don't like and ignore them
>>76357711
It was written by one man without any eye witnesses for starts
>>76357684
>12 What I mean is this: that each one of you says, “I belong to Paul,” “I belong to Apollos,” “I belong to Cephas,” “I belong to Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you, or were you baptized in Paul’s name?
>>76357890
Not if Calvinism is true
>>76358012
>every /csg/ thread
>every..
This is only my second time coming to one of these threads. Try harder.
>>76357962
Let me know when you can find any Church Father in the Ante Nicene period who believes in your shit
>>76358011
Well it's the God of the Bible Jesus died for his sheep
>>76358065
And thats why I am a Calvinist. It's biblical.
>>76351789
If your a college freshman or can get tenure as a French philosopher maybe
>>76355730
Pretty much. I don't trust the cunt, but like the >>76354108 said, his word doesn't carry real weight unless he explicitly says it does. These are all quick speeches that were never intended to become axioms.
I don't deny youth aren't swayed by them, though. People will be analyzing his ISIS is Jesus allegory for the next fucking decade now.
>>76358141
Augustine, Paul, Jesus, Peter, John, is that enough
>>76358177
Amen, Presbyterian or Baptist?
>>76358026
ANS Lane is a fucking Calvinist like you! The Church Fathers are consistent and in agreement on core issues of faith. And you can't even show me that Calvinism isn't as I had described
>>76357985
>Why should I?
Look, you cannot have a bias towards someone's belives without a reason. If your only reason is that you'd rather believe yourself than people who obviously know better than you, but without any reasonable justification about why that is, then you are simply showing us how full of shit you are.
Give me a reason why one should be biased towards church fathers. You cannot find one? Then give me a reason why your reason and opinions should overrule and be superior to theirs. Cannot do it? Then shut up and accept that they are right and you are wrong.
>It's not fallacious to believe anything you want
lmao literally the opposite. Believing whatever you want is a fallacy by definition
>trying to *argue* that other people should believe something *because of* fallacious reasons is - in fact - fallacious.
I already showed you it is not a fallacious reason. Ok let's assume it is a fallacious reason, ok? Just for the sake of it. It is still a less fallacious reason than the one you are using to justify your beliefs. There is more degree of fallacy in your decision to follow your own instinct and personal views of christianity.
>>76357711
>Jesus
Loved everyone, celibate, preached peace and forgiveness.
>Mohammad
Warlord, pedophile, rapist, murderer, hated pretty much everyone.
Read the Koran. Yes, there are violent parts in the Bible, but 99% of the violent verses come from the Old Testament. The message of the New Testament is love. The message from the Koran is hate. It's painfully obvious that Mohammad was an evil man.
The Bible was written by various prophets and multiple apostles, many years apart. The Koran was by Mohammad alone. The hatred contained in the Koran is far greater in content and frequency, and it's only about 1/4th the length of the Bible.
Which of these sounds like the true religion?
>>76358290
Augustine believes that the predestined can fall away. Even McGrath who is Calvinist notes how Augustine is in fact closer to Catholicism. Biblical scholarship also now debunks the Calvinist intepretation of Scripture, alongside all the Church Fathers
>>76358399
Oh I have a reason. I think people in general are out for their own skin and self-gratification. And being waited upon as an "authority" suits people's ego. Ergo a motive for people to sustain their positions as "authorities" by instilling the idea that they are in others.
Boom.
>Believing whatever you want is a fallacy by definition
Pic related. Good luck instantiating that.
>>76358578
Did you read the verses I gave you
>>76358166
You are not answering the implication of Calvinism I raised
>>76353230
Much more common than they were ten years ago before Benedict XVI loosened the rules.
>>76358345
Presbyterian
>>76358686
What are the implications? You're all over the place. Why is an atheist defending Catholicism?
>>76358674
Why should I follow your illogical intepretation of those verses which contradict the very intepretation of the Church Fathers?
>>76358686
How can someone who is born again lose their salvation, when they come Back, are they Born again again
>>76358799
This >>76358011
And that ain't the only one
>>76354229
>How is that relevant
Beauty mediates between the divine and the temporal
>>76349926
I thought Solomon was a demon worshiper, he did create the Ars goetia and all. . .
>>76358844
Why is anyone responding to this illogical retard
He's having two different discussions with himself
He posts images about the real presence but we are talking about the will of man.
>>76358844
Because the Bible is the inspired word of God, and church fathers can make mistakes what denom are you?
>>76354351
Reply.
>>76358886
How can a deity who is not deceitful deceive human beings by giving the illusion of self determination when there is in fact none!
>>76358669
Again, you get cornered by facts and you avoid answering questions, you post a smug weeaboo picture and you act passive-aggressive to hide the fact that you have been BTFO.
The first sign of a person who is out of arguments is when they improvise as psychologists and start saying that everyone else is satisfying their mental problem to distract from the fact that they have no valid arguments to defend their position.
>Pic related. Good luck instantiating that.
If you believe what you want you don't believe what is true. What you want, from every point of view and especially from a christian point of view, can never be true by definition. That's why we look at the most reasonable answer to our question, that in this case would be to follow the interpretation of the Church Fathers regarding the relationship between Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
Frankly you are a poor excuse of a troll and the time has come for me to filter you forever
>>76358844
you are giving to priest too much authority
if Jesus came back and priests were against him, who would you ?
>>76358915
People are only deceived by other people. God clearly states that God plans everything out
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps. Proverbs 16:9
Look matey you're retarded.
>>76359005
He doesn't we have will, it's just courrupted
>>76358994
HE'S AN ATHEIST
I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS WITH HIM BEFORE
>>76356024
Rockville Center (Long Island) is terrible with RC church architecture. It became OK to build ugly churches the same time millions of Catholics moved out from NYC, requiring a lot of cheap churches to be built
>>76358994
So? Even if we play your sola Scriptura game, we still end up with the question of why there is no trace of Calvinism and Protestantism in the Church Fathers throughout the ages! Something's clearly wrong when none of your shit is to
Be found in the infancy of Christianity
>>76359160
Oh well he needs to repent
>>76359006
Yes, because
>Oh I have a reason. I think people in general are out for their own skin and self-gratification. And being waited upon as an "authority" suits people's ego. Ergo a motive for people to sustain their positions as "authorities" by instilling the idea that they are in others.
is *TOTALLY* not a response to
>Give me a reason why one should be biased towards church fathers
That is some real low-level shitposting you've got going on mane.
What you want to believe can also be true, dipshit-san~
>>76359006
>Praceteom
Google him, he always uses the same tactics.
>>76359043
We already have biblical scholarship debunking the Protestant intepretations of it. The Anchor Bible Dictionary is a good example of this
>>76359183
Your not even a Christian, Repent and put your trust in Christ
>>76359360
you didnt awnser my question tho
>>76359276
I am definitely never wasting my time with him again. He got BTFO for the Nth time anyway. Filtered forever.
>>76359077
This is a red herring. God deceives for he makes it look like choices matter and we are self determining. This is so when one believes in a God that presestines prior to Creating his puppets!
>>76358462
Im not denying the Quran is full of horrible shit. It is. I just dont get how people will say Christianity is the one true religion based only how "nice" the book is. Why not believe in Hinduism? Or something else? I'm genuinely curious.
>>76359502
Repent
>>76359409
Because it is ridiculous as it entails Jesus literally lying and breaking his promise that his church won't fall. Yet it does before a hundred years of his Resurrection!
>>76359502
Your objection is emotional not logical
>>76359360
You posted a Calvinist scholar which means a man more well-versed in church history than you remained unchanged. The other you posted 2 church fathers
>>76359445
We both know you'll always keep responding with your inane shit. You're a shitposter, after all.
See you next time!
>>76357491
So do modern biologists and astronomers. What was your point again? Is it somehow less reasonable to believe in evolution because of Freud?
Either the ECFs were capable of and concerned with selecting for accurate representations of the teachings of Jesus or they were not. It is both my faith and the significantly more reasonable belief in my opinion that they were so capable and concerned.
I understand that you post from the view of a radical skeptic. But, absolute certainties aren't the only reasonable positions to hold.
>>76359531
Islam is also inconsistent with Tacitus who was a Roman Historian who claimed Jesus was put to death by pntius Pilate, Muslims believe Jesus was called up like Elijah
>>76359224
As a Calvinist you have to believe that God is controlling me or made it such that I act this way. It's the very implication of predestination, particularly as expressed in the Westminster Confession
>>76359622
what? so you dont trust Jesus?
people is still strong believeing in him, those who maintain the faith through the test are the good ones
>>76359763
Yes. In your heart you have this hate for God and that's what you will be punished for. I have submitted myself to God.
>>76357809
That isn't Biblically consistent at all. The Bible declares at least once outright and implies throughout that God wishes that everyone would be saved. If God were choosing, we'd all choose correctly.
>>76359763
Repent and put your trust in Christ and I will do a bible study with you, but if your not gonna follow Jesus, you might as well eat drink and be merry
>>76359531
>Why not believe in Hinduism? Or something else?
See NT Wright or Peter Kreeft's articles concerning the historicity of Christ's resurrection. Christianity is built the claim that certain events happened historically.
>>76359635
That is a logical argument. Looks like you can't even read. Why does it matter that ANS Lane is still Calvinist? Those like him aren't crazy fucked up idiots
Like you and shows honesty
