Honest question:
What will be your reaction if Trump, when elected, says: "We're not really building that wall".
I am rather curious to know.
>>76233160
196 grains of lead.
I doubt anyone will be surprised. It was clearly a ploy to pander to the white republican vote
>>76233327
What? No one will be surprised? I'm not expecting that.
>believing in a literal 2000 mile wall
for what purpose?
>>76233491
same reason the chinks believed in a 20000 mile wall
2000 miles of wall is easy as fuck to build, it just takes workforce, and america has 330 million people, so that's a lot of fucking workforce
I would be very unhappy.
>>76233491
So the wall is another meme that no one actually expects to be built?
>>76233485
You should. Trump literally just plays to whatever crowd he's speaking to. The idea of a giant stupid wall is popular with unimaginative conservatives so he used it (along with some other choice proposals) to win the primaries. Now that he's trying to win a general, he'll be changing his positions to suite a wider electorate
>>76233327
>>76233675
Thank you for Correcting The Record
Only an idiot would think walls are real. They're made up. Walls can't exist
reminder
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/trackers/2016-05-19/trump-backer-collins-suggests-border-wall-may-be-virtual
It's already there, somewhat. It's mostly a fence. They're mainly going to fortify it I guess. Bush was going to do it too, but he fucked it up somehow.
he won't be talking about it in a month, everyone that's not a total mouthbreather knows that.
I won't care cuz Donald Trump will be the president
>>76233160
Nothing, the cucks here will just gulp the jizz from Donny and pretend to be busy with a bigger issue like defending Israel or muh ISIS.
As a matter of fact I don't think trump is going to accomplish shit (IF he even is honest about his promises/views, and this is a big IF considering his lying and deceitful personality), he has already admitted most of his dumb racist pandering are nothing more than 'suggestions' which Congress has to approve, and the trumpcucks keep repeating that both democrat and republican Congress hate him so there's that, he'll be just as mediocre, or much worse than any other candidate. But he was smart to bait useful idiots with racist bullshit so I guess there's that too.
>>76233857
He won't. I know that as well.
But the people won't just forget about it because he isn't mentioning it anymore.
BUILD THE WALL! BUILD THE WALL!
>>76233766
This desu what can you even make a wall out of? Wood? You'll chop down all the trees! Stone? You'll have a big hole left as your "country"! This is why conservatives are so dumb.
>>76233160
I will be heartbroken.
My trust in anyone running for office will be shattered for decades to come.
I might even stop voting.
>>76233993
Bad bait.
>>76233593
It didn't keep china from getting their shit pushed in by the mongols. The less of history is that a wall that you don't man is useless.
Now if we're talking an electronic wall of surveillance with response teams that can actually make use of the information then you've got yourself something much more interesting.
Threadly reminder:
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/01/233628-saudi-arabia-anti-isis-wall/
That's 600 miles along the border with Iraq, and they're planning a 1000 miles one along the Yemen border (though probably not as fancy).
Anybody who thinks Trump won't build the wall are idiots. Its an easy sell to house Republicans because it acts as a jobs program for a time, providing work to thousands of people who have to help build it.
Trump will use this as a kickstarter to dump money into our crumbling infrastructure and provide many more thousands of jobs rebuilding bridges and roads that have crumbled since they were created nearly 60 years ago as part of the interstate program and other things like that.
All the while he will be punishing companies that outsource, bringing additional jobs back to the states as it becomes more worth it to keep factories here. This will cause a jump in the price of goods, but because we will have low unemployment due to all the blue collar jobs, it won't affect people badly.
I don't understand what a wall would possibly solve.
It completely neglects the fact there's thousands of tunnels across the border.
>>76234367
You make a good point. It seems, however, the majority doesn't believe it will be built.
>>76234367
Man I sure am going to enjoy the U.S. hitting the $25T debt mark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>76234214
I knew the portuguese were dumb but I thought they atleast had a sense of humor
>>76234559
Make wall 10 ft. lower.
>>76234367
>This will cause a jump in the price of goods, but because we will have low unemployment due to all the blue collar jobs, it won't affect people badly.
Also, his new taxes will just incentivize manufacturers to buy more robots.
You aren't going to get all of those jobs back.
>>76234764
Perhaps I was jokingly saying that his post was bad bait knowing that it was sarcastic.
You're the one who didn't realize I was kidding. Now, who's dumb and doesn't have a sense of humor?
>>76233160
Honestly, I wouldn't care all that much. I'd rather have someone that's too radical to get anything past congress over someone like Hillary or Boinie who can really fuck us over is congress let's some of their bullshit slip.
>>76234340
But nothing could stop the mongols.
Not muds.
Not big walls.
Not slav winters.
Nothing.
>>76234664
>debt in a currency you have the power to mint means anything
>debt to your own citizens means anything
>>76234597
>the majority doesn't believe it will be built.
The majority of people in this thread are shilling
>>76234939
Jokes on you, I also was just pretending
This is what a shill thread looks like.
>>76233933
>mexican intellectual
Get the shovel out Pablo, you're going to build that wall and pay for it too
>>76235035
>literally believing you can print your way out of a debt crisis
>>76235135
>>76235143
>muh echo chamber ;_;
As long as theres still a huge crackdown on illegals and employers of illegals, mass deportations, and significant increase in border enforcement, I dont really care if an actual physical wall happens.
>>76235211
>meme image
>meme reply text
>irreversible butthurt
That's a trumpnigger poster alright
>>76233160
Honestly guys, every time I see Trump, I remember Bane's speech about false hope.
>>76235293
Not even trying to fit in are you?
You guys get spotted so fast.
>>76235299
>employers of illegals
Will never happen.
>>76234340
nothing stopped the mongols
they attacked Russia in winter
they had a massive land war in asia
>>76235217
You can't print money to get out of a debt crisis, but you can print bonds and sell them to help fund new ventures, as well as call on debt to other countries.
Trump simply adding an additional tax onto all money sent out of the US could garner rather large profits for the government.
>>76234871
I don't expect to, but a factory filled with robots still has employ some people (inspectors of products, manual work that still hasn't be robotized, managers, shippers, safety officers, etc).
>>76235394
It's mostly teenagers and young twentysomethings looking for a strong messiah with all the simple answers.
Trump is going to be another Republican when he gets elected. What promises do you think he'll break?
>>76233160
>What will be your reaction if Trump, when elected, says: "We're not really building that wall".
Just laugh at /pol/ when the americans find out that Drumpf was a populist demagogue all along.
http://politistick.com/trump-flip-flops-on-border-wall-says-we-need-only-half-a-wall-because-of-natural-barriers/#
>>76233160
They honestly don't need a wall. The whole border can be patrolled by drones (or just some small blimps with cameras on them), and anyone getting across can be tracked and hunted.
If they wanted to use drone-mounted weapons, they could shoot or tear-gas anyone coming across.
>>76235683
Stop fucking shilling.
>>76233327
Bullshit. The Trump organization is probably going to built it so he can probably make a lot of money through contractual work. There WILL be a wall.
>>76235659
>You can't print money to get out of a debt crisis, but you can print bonds and sell them to help fund new ventures
So your solution to the debt crisis is to issue more debt?
>Trump simply adding an additional tax onto all money sent out of the US could garner rather large profits for the government.
This would destroy the U.S. as a financial powerhouse and accelerate offshoring of profits.
>I don't expect to, but a factory filled with robots still has employ some people (inspectors of products, manual work that still hasn't be robotized, managers, shippers, safety officers, etc).
Sucks for the millions of blue-collar workers that now have to pay inflated prices for everything at Wal-Mart with their McDonald's salary.
>>76235394
If I take that mask off will you die?
>>76235787
They do need a wall because the next president after him can "defund" border security.
>>76235951
This is almost certainly illegal.
>>76235865
I'm just pointing out inconsistencies in the platform of a major presidential candidate. What's wrong with that?
>>76235951
There really won't.
Presidents can't actually commission these things. It would require an act of congress. And because it's idiotic, congress will never, ever, approve it.
It's an absurd idea that would simply never happen.
>>76235787
Good point man. The Wall isn't important it is one (albeit low-tech) engineering solution to a problem. The most important point is where he stands on the issue of protecting U.S. sovereignty and rule-of-law.
>>76233325
.45 acp?
>>76233160
TRUMP LOVES BUILDING STUFF.
IT'S WHAT HE'S DONE HIS WHOLE LIFE.
IF HE GET'S ELECTED, IT WILL THE FIRST THING HE WANTS TO DO.
BUILD IT.
>>76235566
>>76235012
Not quite. They were indeed stopped by Poland, as is common in yurohistory.
>>76236241
>protecting U.S. sovereignty and rule-of-law
He plans on rewarding companies that have been offshoring their profits in tax shelters with a massive windfall tax break, so I guess he isn't that picky.
>>76233160
He's probably never going to build a wall. Realistically, it's probably easier to use surveillance techniques like drone patrols than it is to build a literal, physical wall.
Honestly if he builds a physical wall instead of just leveraging modern technology to stifle illegal border crossing, he's as dumb as liberals say he is.
>>76233593
My understanding is that a) they never finished the wall in time b) Chinese citizens were actually pissed because the treasury was bankrupted trying to build the shit.
>>76236202
>making money through activities as president is illegal
>Who are Lyndon Johnson and his wife
>>76236464
Holy fuck. Just stop.
>>76236409
>They were indeed stopped by Poland, as is common in yurohistory.
>poland
>stopping anything
>being anything other than Russia's or Prussia's sex slave
laughing_burghers.tiff
I don't care so long as he deals with deportations and border control
If he doesn't fpbp
>>76236516
Conflict of interest legislation would keep Trump from directing contracts to his own businesses.
In fact, I'm pretty sure as President he has to place a lot of that in a blind trust outside his control.
>>76233160
Honestly, that's fine, we already have a border fence anyways. WHAT WE DO NEED IS - ACTUAL ENFORCEMENT of our borders.
My hope is that Trump will definitely strengthen our border presence, and actually allow our agents to do their jobs.
>>76235354
>inferior race
>reeks of human shit
>dumb as a fucking stump
That's a sp*c alright
>>76236546
>meme understanding of debt
>meme understanding of history
>a fucking leaf
not even surprised
>>76236752
How am I incorrect about debt?
>>76233160
He won't build the wall, but he is bringing a very important topic to the public sphere about sovereignty. DC needs shaken up.
>>76233160
Depends on the RNC propaganda. If they want, then dumb republicans will eat up any bullshit escuse given by Trump, and will deflect criticism with any stupid ploy.
If RNC doesn't want, then it will smear Truump with this. ´
Then again, depends on RNC future goals and next election.
Why do republicans like so much Reagan if he was a failure of president, and acted agaisnt their "conservative" values?
>>76236748
>foaming at the mouth buttblasted trumpfag flings ad hominem in the absence of any actual arguments while falling other people "inferior"
Toppest kek
>>76233160
I'd like a wall/fence around Texas. I feel left out.
>>76236830
I find it funny how many Americans "shake up DC" by re-electing the vast majority of their state representatives.
>>76233602
They actually do. Some of them are too stupid to understand a wall is not the solution. Walls can be climbed, can be dug under, they can go by the sea, airplanes...
>>76233325
8MM MAU MAU
M
M
M
A
U
M
A
U
>>76236959
won't help if the dhs is literally driving vans of illegals to cities
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/06/dhs-quietly-moving-releasing-vanloads-illegal-aliens-away-border/
>>76237005
We meet again. (/pt/ threads)
I believe that a manned wall wouldn't solve the problem, but it would definitely help a bit.
>>76237005
>lefty /pol/ shitposting again
Because every poor spic can just grab a shovel and dig under a wall in the middle of the desert. It's not going to magically fix everything by itself, but it'd at least help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier
>>76236546
Poland was a powerfull kingdom in the middle ages.
And yes, Poland stopped the mongols, allied with Hungary and supported by germans, iirc
>>76237005
How much of illegal immigration is just tourists and guest workers overstaying their visas anyway?
How much of the U.S. illegal population is from countries across the ponds?
>>76233160
I don't think people actually expect him to build a wall. They just want him to enforce border security and immigration laws.
That's just my honest opinion, tho.
>>76237160
Ainda fazem disso? Que é que se fala nisso?
>I believe that a manned wall wouldn't solve the problem, but it would definitely help a bit.
In what way?
>>76237198
>Because every poor spic can just grab a shovel and dig under a wall in the middle of the desert.
They already did it. You are underestimating the mexicans. How do you think drug is smugled in USA?
> It's not going to magically fix everything by itself, but it'd at least help.
In what way?
>>76237198
Economic refugees have a lot more time to plan and gather resources for a trip in the U.S. than penniless refugees.
>>76236981
None of them have been as bat shit crazy as Donald though. They are just the status quo.
>>76236231
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006
>a border wall is absolutely ridiculous and has never been considered in any way, shape, or form before
>>76237390
In what way? If you can't figure it out yourself I have bad news for you.
>>76237133
That's why we need Trump.
>>76237230
Like 40%.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/01/19/immigration-visa-overstays-department-of-homeland-security-report/79026708/
>>76233816
bush was a neocon cuck, he was never gonna build it
>>76237230
>How much of illegal immigration is just tourists and guest workers overstaying their visas anyway?
Exactly, they are too dumb to know that Chinese illegal immigration is larger then Mexican one nowadays (iirc). They think all illegals are mexican borderjumpers.
>>76237332
>They just want him to enforce border security and immigration laws
Everyone with a head in it's shoulders would think that. But no, mouthbreathers honestly believe it.
>>76237390
>They already did it. You are underestimating the mexicans. How do you think drug is smugled in USA?
Drug cartels are not "poor spics." Don't be disingenous.
>How does a wall in the middle of a desert many miles away from any water or other resources detour illegal immigration
Gee, I don't know.
>>76237421
I'm not sure what your point is. Mexicans that cross the border are largely penniless.
>>76237390
Realistically, I think a wall would stunt the flow of migrants into the U.S. for a few years, but would become increasingly irrelevant as smugglers adapt and come up with other ways to get people in.
This knowledge would also eventually trickle down into the general population within a few years. My guess is that the amount of "tourism" from Mexicans will tick up noticeably by around 2019/2020.
>>76237573
Also, why do you tripfag?
>>76237688
Because he is fighting an epic righteous battle against right-wing fascists
>>76237598
>Drug cartels are not "poor spics.
What is your point then? Mexicans would find a way.
>How does a wall in the middle of a desert many miles away from any water or other resources detour illegal immigration
Are you literally retard? There are walls already in the border. It doesn't stop them now. They could dig a tunel. And all it takes is one tunel.
>Mexicans that cross the border are largely penniless.
>Believes memes
Mexicans that cross the wall are usually well prepared, probably with jobs already waiting for them
>>76237759
He told us in a portuguese thread that he one of the reasons he does it is to bait you burgers. Shh.
>>76233160
>mfw
>>76237598
Mexicans aren't under as near as much pressure to migrate. They can research the alternative routes and save up pesos/contract themselves out to the cartels in return for smuggling services.
Refugees, by contrast, have almost zero support for migration (apart from what Western nations voluntarily give them) and have few funding opportunities in their camps or in Syria.
>>76237673
>Realistically, I think a wall would stunt the flow of migrants into the U.S.
No. But the tightining of border patrol, no more sanctuary cities, immediate deportation would stem the flow. Not some idiotic wall.
>>76237688
Que outra forma é que arreliava os republicanos ameicanos e os libertarios ou lá como se diz?
>>76237198
The drug cartels are the ones building the tunnels ya idiot.
If people smuggling becomes much more difficult then the price will also increase. It's already profitable for cartels to smuggle people through tunnels or boats as it is.
>>76237861
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IT'S A SECRET!
I AM A LEFTIST OPEN BORDER TRASNGENDER MARXIST LOVING NUMALE!!!!!!
>>76237978
Só por estares a "tripfagging" é suficiente.
>>76233491
>2000 mile wall
Trump promises us a 1000 mile wall. Much of the border does not require wall.
>>76233160
Meh
Anyone but Hillary.
>>76237549
This, bush also tried twice to get amnesty passed just like the king cuck reagan
>>76237821
>What is your point then? Mexicans would find a way.
Yes, they would magically find a way to get around increased border security.
>Are you literally retard? There are walls already in the border. It doesn't stop them now. They could dig a tunel. And all it takes is one tunel.
Actually border crossing has never reached the highs that it did in the 90s and early 2000s. We just need to finish the job.
>Mexicans that cross the wall are usually well prepared, probably with jobs already waiting for them
I'm sure you are using some very bizarre definition of "well prepared" here. The fact is that mexican immigrants are not typically very wealthy. It should be obvious.
>>76237978
>No. But the tightining of border patrol, no more sanctuary cities, immediate deportation would stem the flow. Not some idiotic wall.
Trump literally supports all of those things.
>>76238005
Duh, that's why we need more border patrol. Not everyone can just build tunnels everywhere. Shit takes time and resources.
>>76234340
Mexico doesn't have horse archers.
>>76237978
>No. But the tightining of border patrol, no more sanctuary cities, immediate deportation would stem the flow. Not some idiotic wall.
I'm assuming that Trump isn't actually going to increase enforcement beyond a token show of force to appease his base.
He seems like an intelligent enough man to realize that so many employers depend on their slave armies of latinos that shipping them all out of the country would cause entire industries to collapse and send the economy back into recession.
This is literally Shilling: The Thread right here.
Sorry guys. I came with good intentions.
>>76237573
He is going to enforce all illegal immigration laws, but there is emphasis placed on the wall because it is an effective concrete symbol for people to imagine when thinking about his approach to immigration
>>76234559
The Israelis use underground sonar and blow them up. If there is one thing they do right its border walls.
>>76238212
>shipping them all out of the country would cause entire industries to collapse and send the economy back into recession
Any facts to back that up?
"We're not really going to legalize weed".
>>76236947
kek it cant even spell or properly form sentences
>>76236231
> It would require an act of congress. And because it's idiotic, congress will never, ever, approve it.
>And because it's idiotic,
>implying the reason congress wouldnt do it is because they think its a idiot idea
>>76238187
What is border patrol going to accomplish against tunnels?
>shit takes time and resources
Which cartels have plenty of, along with access to engineers who can build them
>>76233160
A fence will work too
>>76238391
Sonar and collapse tunnels. Boom.
>>76238358
How is the sentence not properly structured?
Where are the spelling errors?
What does it have to do with what I've said, aside from being used as some worthless attack?
>>76238478
What about sonar?
>>76238340
The Postville Raid is a good example of what happens when you deport illegals en masse without any plan for what comes next.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postville_Raid
>The raid had a significant impact on the Postville community. The town, with a census population of only 2,273,[11] lost a large percentage of its population due to the arrests.[12] As a result of the difficulties Agriprocessors faced after the raid, the plant stopped slaughtering cattle in October 2008, and filed for bankruptcy on November 5, 2008.[13] The City Council declared Postville a humanitarian and economic disaster area, but federal officials said the town didn't qualify for help.[14] Agriprocessors was bought at auction in July 2009 and has resumed production under the new name “Agri Star” on a lower scale.[15]
I also remember reading an article somewhere saying that the new plant mostly hired muslim somali refugees and blacks from detroit. lmao
Trump has such of an ego that I believe the only thing that really motivates him to build the wall is that it will be a sort of reminder of him like the great wall of China is of something
>>76236231
>protecting your country from lawbreakers
>absurd
fuckthisgayearth.gif
>>76238672
Obviously that's how you would find tunnels.
>>76238675
Demonstrate that would harm the national economy to the point of serious concern.
>>76238544
u mad bro?
>>76238478
In high-density residential areas? Really?
>>76238675
>Boots out illegals
>Puts nigs and """refugees""" to work
Sounds like a solution, rather than a problem.
>>76238799
What? Just collapse it in the middle somewhere.
>>76238799
Ugh probably anywhere along the tunnel that won't get anyone/anything destroyed
>>76238784
How much does each sonar cost? How many do you need? What is their operational range? Are they prone to report false positives? Why is their deployment along a a 1,000+ mile border feasible?
I mean you're just using a word here and claiming it'll work, like movie science or some shit, I like how trumpfags just guzzle the donny cum and fill in the blanks in his words with their own delusions and dreams
>>76238390
Declare a federal emergency and use fema funds. Easy fucking peasy
>>76238544
Just wait until we fucking annex your stupid ass country. Meanwhile keep making our goods for cheap you fucking burrito nigger.
>>76238187
>Yes, they would magically find a way to get around increased border security.
Walls can be climbed, can be dug under, they can go by the sea, airplanes...
> The fact is that mexican immigrants are not typically very wealthy.
The wealthy ones are not illegals, you dumb fuck. But you are retarded to not thinking that mexicans plan their journey to USA for years.
>Trump literally supports all of those things.
If he does that, then he will almost stop illegal immigration. But it's not a idiotic expensive useless wall
>>76238784
Trump plans on deporting 11 million illegal immigrants, and many businesses rely on them for cheap labour that they can't feasibly attain from spoiled American workers.
Many of these businesses will go belly-up if they don't have the workers they need to continue their operations. Trump has also said he plans on punishing businesses for employing illegal immigrants, adding further burdens to these businesses.
Thousands of businesses failing within the span of a year or so would have a massive ripple effect on the economy. These businesses pay taxes to local, state and federal governments, and when they fail the government will lose all that revenue, further inflating the national debt and probably forcing major spending cuts. These businesses also hire many American workers, especially in white-collar occupations such as accounting, management, etc. These people will also lose their jobs. These businesses are often supported by mortgages and other debt instruments, which effectively become worthless to the creditors that hold them (i.e. major banks), eliminating billions in expected investment income. Finally, as entire industries (such as agriculture and the hotel industry) rely on illegals for their existence, these industries would probably painful, long-term declines and in the case of agriculture cause regional depressions in states like Georgia and California.
All of this combined would cripple the American economy, causing further shockwaves that would destroy hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs.
>>76233160
really makes you think
>>76233160
hmm, really makes you think
>>76239448
>dat babydick e-saber rattling
You are so mad, did a Mexibro cuck you in highschool brah?
You ain't gonna annex shit you're just as fat and miserable as every Mexican is
>>76238989
>>76239030
Which creates incentives to build the tunnels in high-density areas where there are no "open spaces."
>>76238268
>He is going to enforce all illegal immigration laws
Great, then illegal immigration willl stop, probably. (Don't know your laws)
>it is an effective
lol wat? Any source?
>concrete symbol
So a multi billion dollar wall will be buil as a "symbol"? Are you guys that stupid?
>>76233491
>hurr durr walls don't work
>10,000 years of human history must be work
Nigga unless the illegals go full Urban and start bringing cannons I don't think we're going to have an issue.
>>76239500
>Walls can be climbed
And then you get shot in the face..
>Can be dug under
And then you get shot in the face
>>76239257
Juan, do you really expect me to come up with some highly detailed plan over the internet?
Sonar is like 100 year old technology that's been in active use like forever. It's not something that's magical or high cost and it's already in use somewhat. I mean how do you think they find the tunnels now?
>my long border wall
That's the whole point of having border patrol. They patrol the border and any tunnels from Mexico to the US obviously has to go through the border. Get more people, use more sonar, crackdown on tunnels, and you stop people. Obviously, it's way easier to collapse a tunnel than make it. It don't see why this is so hard to imagine.
>>76239646
Leaf, all tunnels from Mexico to the US have to go through the border. There's no actual way to build in only "high-density" areas.
>>76234340
Well, it's good thing there aren't any mongols anymore then, isn't it, faggot?
>>76239301
So when Texas or Louisiana gets raped by the next hurricane, no one is going to care when the FEMA fund is empty right bro?
>>76239448
I thought Trump was going to bring jobs back or something like that, so you can buy $3 cans of coke made in Cleveland.
>>76239500
>Walls can be climbed, can be dug under, they can go by the sea, airplanes...
You act like these are all just trivial things that can easily be done and will have no deterring effect.
>The wealthy ones are not illegals, you dumb fuck. But you are retarded to not thinking that Mexicans plan their journey to USA for years.
I never said either of those things. I said that Mexicans that crossed the border were largely penniless (i.e. poor) and that's true.
>If he does that, then he will almost stop illegal immigration. But it's not a idiotic expensive useless wall
I guess walls just magically worked for Israel and Hungary. Hell, our shitty fence already works for us to some extent too.
>>76233160
U don't need a wall if u enforce the law. If u end welfare and illegals can't find work, they're not staying.
>>76239448
>Implyig USA will annex Mexico, and not the other way around
You forget that Southwest and California was Mexican. ANd demographics are quickly changing.
>>76239257
> How much does each sonar cost?
You don't need sonar. Average microphone cost + plastic case + drilling is enough.
> Are they prone to report false positives?
Rarely. If you dig, there will be constant repetitive noise.
Also tunnels are not the problem. They are very expensive to build and you just give first illegal to report the tunnel a green card. The cost of tunnel passage will skyrocket, to pay it off, and only the richest will pass.
> muh donny cum
Don't worry, nigrat, nobody needs your lovers cum.
>>76239516
>many businesses rely on them for cheap labour that they can't feasibly attain from spoiled American workers.
[citation needed]
If your business can't afford minimum wage labour, then why should it survive? Our pool of native, unskilled labor is very high (esp. among blacks) and unemployment is always higher among lower skilled people. I don't see it.
Agribusiness will be completely fine with illegals. They are some of the most profitable business out there and we have some of the most advanced technology for agriculture on the planet. If we can't fucking provide an agricultural surplus with legal labor, we have failed as a society.
>>76239678
Oh no... lefty pol saying that walls don't work. Look the Hungarian fence and how it worked.
>>76239740
Well here you are saying that sonar is the ultimate solution against tunneling, when in fact you don't know shit about sonar.
And you're stupid enough to think 'it's 100 years old it just werks lol', optics have existed for far more than that, yet, as of today, there's no powerful telescope above earth that can find a trace of your brain from space.
When you say they are being used to detect tunneling *somewhere* it doesn't mean fury can be used to detect tunnels in this specific case.
Since you are making the positive claim the burden of proof is on you. Just like I said, trumplets just fill in the blanks with the shit they see in movies, it's no surprise that some clown who runs the WWE can manipulate you this easily. KYS.
>>76239740
>There's no actual way to build in only "high-density" areas.
Most of the El Paso/Ciudad Juarez area is heavily built up and has development running up to both sides of the border.
>>76239678
>Any source?
What, don't you trust mexican intellectuals?
>>76239703
>And then you get shot in the face..
>implying a 2000 miles wall can be manned
>>76239924
>You act like these are all just trivial things that can easily be done and will have no deterring effect.
No, but they are being done with notable efficiency. And a wall won't stop any of those.
>I said that Mexicans that crossed the border were largely penniless (i.e. poor) and that's true.
Source?
>I guess walls just magically worked for Israel
Palestinians and Hezzbollah have a huge tunnel networks. And it "wsorks" because the size of the wall is much smaller. ANd they have IDF almost permanently combat ready. ANd tough laws.
>and Hungary
>50 mile fence
It worked becasue the army shotted refugges, you dumb fuck.
>>76240464
> the army shotted refugges
So the fence helped them to locate illegal "refugees" and injure a couple of them to stop the whole shitskin tide.
Makes you think, huh.
>>76240173
>[citation needed]
Force thousands of businesses to pay several more dollars per hour (plus SS and other payroll taxes) so they can hire teenagers that will work half as hard and skip out six months after they start work so they can go to Portland and learn underwater basket weaving at the local community college.
> If we can't fucking provide an agricultural surplus with legal labor, we have failed as a society.
:^)
>then why should it survive?
Because they pay billions in taxes that your government kinda really really needs right now?
Because these businesses hire thousands of legal white collar workers?
Because most Americans don't really want to relocate to Cali for a summer to pick tomatoes for minimum wage because they'll probably wind up losing money?
>>76234597
I've noticed alot of liberals in the US think government can and should do everything under the sun- especially shit that was was never delegated to them as a responsibility.
Yet when we talk about border security, one of their actual responsibilities, all of a sudden they believe government is totally incapable. Even if it costs 30 billion dollars, after cutting Mexico's aid and remittances, plus a few tariffs, you could probably decrease NASA's Tang budget for a few years and pay for the wall. 1-2% of the stimulus package would have been enough after what Mexico would pay.
>>76240255
I don't even understand what you are arguing here.
>When you say they are being used to detect tunneling *somewhere* it doesn't mean fury can be used to detect tunnels in this specific case.
What does this even mean? What "specific case?" Sonar is simply used to chart out unknown territory underground, underwater, etc. It's one of the obvious ways you could find a tunnel underground. I don't understand your objection.
>>76240302
Areas like that are the exception to the rule. The vast majority of the border is in the middle of nowhere. If drug cartels hypothetically concentrate in the few metropolitan areas, it makes policing them much easier.
>>76240767
>So the fence helped them
In what way?
>>76240160
>You don't need sonar. Average microphone cost + plastic case + drilling is enough.
So now we're getting by with some ghetto gear of unknown capabilities, lol.
>Also tunnels are not the problem. They are very expensive to build and you just give first illegal to report the tunnel a green card. The cost of tunnel passage will skyrocket, to pay it off, and only the richest will pass.
Because they can't just transport the people with a bag on their heads as they already do?
>Don't worry, nigrat, nobody needs your lovers cum.
Found the trump cumguzzler, you don't need to be so offended snownigger
>>76240909
>I don't understand your objection.
How would it be employed in a 2000 miles border?
Landmines would be more cost efficient.
>>76239516
Only the agricultural sector will be impacted like you say and that is a maybe because there are whites that would take those jobs.
>>76240464
The chinese did it
>>76233160
Well... at least he went hard right... it's better than everyone fighting over who wanted to give away the most free shit to illegals. Even Cruz and Rubio were fighting over who could give amnesty the fastest before Trump came along.
>>76240866
Wall is not that expensive. The legislation is the problem.
>>76240909
I've said that just because sonar is used in some places to detect tunneling it doesn't mean it will be feasible to implement in the entirety of the US border, due to cost, limited range, composition of the terrain, or who even knows what goes into play in this.
>We shouldn't build a wall because there's no way it will keep every illegal out, plus it would be really hard to do and expensive!
>Ban guns now! If it saves one child's life, it's worth it! Confiscating 100,000,000 privately owned guns will be super easy!
LIBERALS.jpg
>>76240909
>it makes policing them much easier.
Hamas has been doing that in the Gaza area for years. Whenever Egypt/Israel destroys one they just bore another.
It isn't going to stop the cartels.
(I don't even really know why we think tunnels are even that big of a factor in illegal immigration. The easiest way to do it is to rent out a hotel room in New York for a week, buy a return ticket you'll never use, and then just fucking vanish. It's what the Chinese do)
>we will not be building a wall
>instead I am signing executive order giving every American citizens a brand new ar15 and the authority to kill illegals at will
What do?
>>76240464
>No, but they are being done with notable efficiency. And a wall won't stop any of those.
Quantify this. How efficient?
>Source?
Illegal immigrants have a median household income of $35,000 when they make it to the US which is quite low (US households are at $50,000; page 4).
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/14/iv-social-and-economic-characteristics/
>Palestinians and Hezzbollah have a huge tunnel networks. And it "wsorks" because the size of the wall is much smaller. ANd they have IDF almost permanently combat ready. ANd tough laws.
We already have tough laws. Nobody enforces them; that's the problem. And why does the size of the wall automatically make it impossible to enforce? That just means you need more people.
>It worked becasue the army shotted refugges, you dumb fuck.
So? Our border patrol is armed. We don't have to shoot them, but we can certainly threaten them.
>>76234191
I thought this happened many times for the last 20 years? That's why the lefty were lost control and no true American cared to vote?
>>76241096
what?
>>76241177
>muh libruls
I think no one denies that liberals, the way they are presented here, are just as bad as dumb rednecks republicans.
>>76233160
I'll just wait till he says, BECAUSE MEXICO IS GONNA BE BUILDING IT
Seriously, all you need is landmine signs, a few fake videos of people getting their limbs blown off crossing the border or horror stories of coyates stepping on landmines and leaving everyone they were smuggling to die. COmbine this with actual active immigration enforcement, detention, and expulsion and NOBODY is coming across except at checkpoints.
The liberals would go ape-shit but it would be efficient as fuck and nothing would even have to be done.
>>76241078
>Only the agricultural sector will be impacted like you say
I think roughly 10-15% of all illegal immigrants are employed in hotels. The industry relies on it.
>and that is a maybe because there are whites that would take those jobs.
...thus driving up labour costs (and related costs) spectacularly, cutting into profits and resulting in higher food costs for everyone in the U.S.
>>76240802
Illegal immigrants take more tax dollars than they provide.
>In 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household received around $24,721 in government benefits and services while paying some $10,334 in taxes.
http://amac.us/illegal-immigration-cost-1/
California doesn't have a monopoly on our agriculture either and there's nothing wrong with hiring teenagers whoever else seasonally.
>>76241361
>have a median household income of $35,000 when they make it to the US which is quite low (US households are at $50,000
A difference of 15.000 is not much. That income is higher then the majority of european countries.
>Quantify this. How efficient?
You never stopped the border crossers. They happened and will happen
>Nobody enforces them; that's the problem.
Exactly. Not some dumb costly wall
>So?
what matters is the stance, not some wall. Trumpfags are so stupid...
>>76241312
Fine that he didn't say "non-white"
>>76241147
I'm not so sure under existing laws the authority to do it wouldn't already exist as a sort of necessary national security power. The appropriations might be another thing, but I find it hard to believe, with how much money we throw around in defense appropriations bills and omnibus bills, the executive couldn't comeup with 30 billion for border security purposes.
>>76241177
I'm not a liberal and I don't think most gun control regulations are smart or that effective.
>>76241361
>$35,000
That's enough to pay for the services of a smuggler.
Or just take a "vacation" that doesn't end.
>>76241469
I really can't believe that anyone actually believes that Mexico is going to pay for the wall.
Paying for a border wall they don't want will be political suicide for any Mexican government.
The only other way is to fund it by taxing crossborder trade and traffic, which inevitably means that the wall will be paid for by anyone who buys something imported from Mexico.
>>76233491
Why are leftists so ignorant of history?
>>76241312
>giving every American citizens a brand new ar15 and the authority to kill illegals at will
You have a civil war in your hands now. Congrats
I never did understand why Mexicans get so butthurt about the wall.
Do you not want your own countrymen back? :^)
>>76233160
The wall is already mostly there. What he wants to build is a figurative wall; actually enforcing the laws that already exist by getting rid of the loopholes, amnesties, and ramp up deportations. The 'Wall' is just to sell it to the masses, for whom 'enforcing the preexisting laws' is what every politician has promised but has never been delivered.
>>76240979
> So now we're getting by with some ghetto gear of unknown capabilities, lol.
It`s called engineering. I`ve done prototypes for Spetsnaz GRU. Although i`m civil ingeneer, my hobby is military fortification of certain locations (IDK if there is an abbreviature in other languages for this).
> Because they can't just transport the people with a bag on their heads as they already do?
Because a large amount of illegals will easily be detected.
> you don't need to be so offended
Why you think would I be in any extent offended by your jealousy towards your gay lovers? I mean IRL sure I would not want to touch you to not get AIDS, Zika or just get schmutzig, but it's internet, duh.
>>76241851
They want border US states back. And they will have them in a few decades
>>76241030
Do you mean sonar? I don't know the best way to use it; I'm not a border patrol agent. But it's something the US government has been talking about and is researching.
>>76241168
I couldn't possibly tell you if sonar would absolutely work in every single situation everywhere across the border. And just because it might now work in every situation imagine doesn't mean that it isn't worth pursuing. The US is actively researching the best methods.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monitor/2011/1118/Tunnel-detection-technology-at-US-Mexico-border-Is-it-worth-the-effort
>>76241238
That's only because the government never enforces visa overstay. We could get those people; there's just no will right now.
>>76233160
>a wall will be built
>it will run from sea to shining sea
>however
>there will be many gaps in it
>because
>environmental conservation requirements will justify its incomplete nature
>besides
>it would be too expensive to complete its construnction
>anyway
>trump will push a complete modernization of the entire citizen/alien situation by requiring everyone in america to be rfid chipped
>666
>mark of the beast
>you are warned
>just kidding
>this poster unironically supports trump
>>76233160
He wont do that. He'll improve the current wall and extend it in some places, so he can claim he did build the wall. Then he'll improve immigration laws and say it's a legal wall.
>politicians
>>76241537
>Illegal immigrants take more tax dollars than they provide.
>Here's a source that totally represents the facts! Please ignore that it was made by an ideologically conservative think tank masquerading as an advocacy organization!
The source you quoted omits the taxes that businesses that hire illegal immigrants pay.
>California doesn't have a monopoly on our agriculture
I was using that as an example, and most of your agriculture IS concentrated in a handful of areas that have their own labour needs.
>there's nothing wrong with hiring teenagers whoever else seasonally.
Ignoring the fact that no one is actually going to want to work these jobs for minimum wage, have you actually worked in any kind of management position? As an employer? Teenagers are THE worst kind of employees you can hire.
>>76241980
>environmental conservation requirements will justify its incomplete nature
Sadly, this will most likely be true. Still, having a wall with gaps is still better than not having a wall at all, IF people are serious about keeping illegals out.
>>76233160
He goes from a D grade to a C grade.
>>76241876
He has actually said he wants to build a literal wall out of cement, rebar and steel.
>>76241613
Trump`s wealth can build the wall 3 times.
I think if it would come to this, he will pay it by himself, just to have his name in history.
But considering the opportunity, he can divide the costs between people who want to buy green card and donations.
>>76241604
>A difference of 15.000 is not much. That income is higher then the majority of european countries.
Adjust it with PPP and the cost of living and things might be different. But still, 35,000 is pretty low household income considering a lot of these people have like 2-3 kids. It's not poor (they were probably poor in Mexico), but it's lower middle class easy.
>You never stopped the border crossers. They happened and will happen
No, nobody could possibly ever stop all border crossings ever. This doesn't mean we can't get better at it.
>Exactly. Not some dumb costly wall
Why won't a wall work? I have never heard a concrete reason for this. Won't border patrol appreciate a nice wall? Hell, we have part of a fence right now and illegal immigration is down from what it was in the early 2000s.
>what matters is the stance, not some wall. Trumpfags are so stupid...
And I support Trump's stance on immigration which includes the wall, more border patrol, crackdown on visa overstays, etc. Why don't you stop making assumptions.
>>76241728
>That's enough to pay for the services of a smuggler.
Well yeah, I don't dispute that.
>>76233160
>reeeeeeeeeeeee
>>76233160
It'd still be funny to see all the panic and riots that will ensue
>>76241966
>We could get those people; there's just no will right now.
You would basically need to shred the fourth amendment (and probably effectively murder the fifth) to allow this to happen.
Plus you'd have to spend billions more just to hunt down every last one.
>>76242182
Okay so you have some irrational problem with the Heritage foundation.
>The source you quoted omits the taxes that businesses that hire illegal immigrants pay.
Well obviously not. The aim was to look at the amount of taxes illegal immigrants pay and the amount of taxes dollars they receive. Whatever taxes the businesses pay are irrelevant. Unless you really are trying to argue that there is no possible way these businesses could be afloat without illegal immigration.
>Ignoring the fact that no one is actually going to want to work these jobs for minimum wage, have you actually worked in any kind of management position? As an employer? Teenagers are THE worst kind of employees you can hire.
The "nobody wants to work these jobs" thing is mostly mythology. Kids will work and make pocket change if they can; it's why they already work shit jobs at McDonald's and the like. "Outdoor" jobs often do pay over minimum wage anyway (that includes some illegal immigrant jobs too).
>>76242561
None of that is true. When people come here on visas or whatever, they are registered on a system. We can see when they stay too long. It's just that nobody enforces it; at all.
>>76241892
None of this post says anything about the capabilities of this hypothetical device.
Large quantity of illegals detected by whom and how? You van also shuffle then through a network of nearby tunnels and unload them into the city in small groups.
>>76241966
Your article actually says there is no feasible technological option to detect tunnels, much less at great distances and greater cost.
The only ones it would detect are tunnels below 40 feet and they can simply dig above that.
>>76242329
>Trump`s wealth can build the wall 3 times.
Trump's (self-estimated) wealth is somewhere in the ballpark of $10 Billion.
Most estimates for the border wall place it at more than double that when you include all necessary related costs.
>>76242352
>This doesn't mean we can't get better at it.
There are way more inexpensive methods of decreasing illegal immigration.
>Why won't a wall work? I have never heard a concrete reason for this.
Static defenses tend to decline in effectiveness as people find alternative routes into the country, such as sea routes and visa overstays.
Many illegal immigrants are from Asia, Europe, and Africa - a wall doesn't apply to them.
>Hell, we have part of a fence right now and illegal immigration is down from what it was in the early 2000s.
Yeah, funny how going through a massive recession and never really recovering makes your country less attractive as a destination for employment.
>>76242950
>The only ones it would detect are tunnels below 40 feet and they can simply dig above that.
You have that backwards. It would detect tunnels up to 40 feet. They would have to "simply" dig below that. Yes, drug cartels do have some crazy tunnels that go very deep, but digging that low is not at all easy.
>>76243234
From the article
>Ground penetrating radar does a poor job at detecting anything before 40 feet.
At detecting anything [before] 40 feet deep, I presume
Work on that reading comprehension, it also doesn't mention cost or the extension of terrain it can monitor.
Like I said, trumpfags just fill in the blanks and hope for the best
>>76242928
>Okay so you have some irrational problem with the Heritage foundation.
They have an ideological goal of advancing their causes and have every incentive to cook the books regarding the facts in order to make their arguments work.
>Whatever taxes the businesses pay are irrelevant. Unless you really are trying to argue that there is no possible way these businesses could be afloat without illegal immigration.
I am trying to argue that because it is true. Illegal immigration is hardwired into the business models of thousands of American businesses, including entire sectors.
>>76242928
>Kids will work and make pocket change if they can; it's why they already work shit jobs at McDonald's and the like. "Outdoor" jobs often do pay over minimum wage anyway (that includes some illegal immigrant jobs too).
I'm guessing you haven't actually managed high school kids.
Their definition of "work" is rather broad, and by broad I mean they're fucking lazy and wind up being liabilities more often than the temporary foreign workers I've had to manage. Some 17 from Albany or wherever is going be fucking whining and bitching about how she has to pick berries for ten hours a day in the scorching sun while the Colombians I used to oversee just fucking bent down and did their work and didn't complain and didn't do dumb shit like steal company property.
And do you know how much employee turnover costs businesses? You have to go through a whole fucking process when your new hire decides that working in a field for minimum wage is shit (it is shit) and she'd rather run home to Mom and Dad. Other workers have to pick up her slack, time is lost placing ads and interviewing new workers and running criminal record checks, and then you have to train them and get them set up on payroll.
>>76243092
>Static defenses tend to decline in effectiveness as people find alternative routes into the country, such as sea routes and visa overstays.
Duh, but we obviously have a huge problem with Mexico and ignoring it would be idiotic. We have major crime on the southern border.
>Yeah, funny how going through a massive recession and never really recovering makes your country less attractive as a destination for employment.
The economy isn't great right now, but the recession has been basically over for a while. We still haven't seen anywhere close to the highs under Bush or Clinton. Now maybe it is purely economic, but under Bush there was a lot of extra funding for border patrol and many states (like Arizona) got tougher on it. So I'd say it helped to some extent.
>>76243587
Ah reading comprehension indeed. It's okay, English probably wasn't your first language. It was using "before" in the sense of a bottom-to-top progression.
>There a various technologies the US can use to detect tunnels, but all have their limitations. Ground penetrating radar does a poor job at detecting anything before 40 feet. This does little good considering that one tunnel discovered between San Diego and Tijuana traveled at a depth of almost 100 feet below the surface.
>>76242928
>None of that is true. When people come here on visas or whatever, they are registered on a system. We can see when they stay too long. It's just that nobody enforces it; at all.
I know how U.S. illegal immigrants evade the system. All you do is just steal someone's SSN and you've made tracking that person down a whole lot harder.
>>76243779
>to some extent.
This could be 2% or 60%, and if the amount it helped is closer to 2% then spending all that money on increased border defenses to deter illegal immigration was a waste of money that could have been avoided by simply resurrecting the bracero program or adopting our country's system of temporary workers.
>>76243779
>We have major crime on the southern border.
Okay. So why build a massive, expensive wall when a fence would probably work?
>The economy isn't great right now, but the recession has been basically over for a while.
If your income is in the top ten percent of earners. Gains for the bottom 90% have been negative, reflecting the fact that many of the jobs that were eliminated have been replaced with lower-paying jobs.
>>76233160
For me it will be the last straw, the last attachment I have to the 3D world.
I've been mostly technocrat and becoming more and more over the years while watching politicians lie, cheat, steal, and fail to do anything good for not just the USA but for any country whatsoever.
Trump is the last hope for a lot of us here, make no mistake. If that hope ends up spoiled or ruined or corrupted in some manner I'll just turn off completely from the outside world.
>>76243759
Regardless, it is true that illegal immigrants receive more in tax dollars (as a whole) than they pay.
>I am trying to argue that because it is true. Illegal immigration is hardwired into the business models of thousands of American businesses, including entire sectors.
This is mostly just false. There are two sectors with a lot of dependence on illegal immigration: hotels and agriculture. Will those two industries be hurt without paying a lot of people under the table? Sure probably. But this does not mean they will totally disappear or become nonviable. There are hotels that only employ older people or black people. And there is plenty of family farms; getting rid of illegals help them.
Okay, so you hate teenagers too.
>And do you know how much employee turnover costs businesses?
Because illegal immigrants are totally a stable demographic that will stick with one company for years? This seems unlikely to me.
>>76243867
Actually not at all. You don't understand how the system works. A SSN is needed for any job. So when you steal someone else's number, that goes on the books. If the governments find that one number is registered under (one in California; another in New York), that looks just a little suspicious. So yes, the government already has the ability to find these people; they just don't do it.
>>76233160
Id be fine with it. I trust that he would find the best possible method to solving the problem with whatever he has at his disposal. The guy isnt retarded and i trust hell get the job done without putting america in the shitter.
>>76244103
We already have "temporary" workers. That just means mass importation of cheap labor. Note, it doesn't have to be super cheap to save money; illegal immigrants already cost us a bunch as it is. And I am willing to pay the cost (in terms of tax dollars) if it keeps immigration under control and in favor of American workers.
>>76244468
>Okay. So why build a massive, expensive wall when a fence would probably work?
I don't care, it just has to work.
>If your income is in the top ten percent of earners. Gains for the bottom 90% have been negative, reflecting the fact that many of the jobs that were eliminated have been replaced with lower-paying jobs.
That's only semi true. Unemployment has gone down for virtually every demographic (some more than others of course). We aren't in a boom, but there's work to be found. And even if its only lower paying jobs, that won't stop illegals from coming. Mexico is far worse.
>>76241876
>>76242309
We need both.
But we really really really need to enforce the fucking laws and also GO AFTER TRAITOR ILLEGAL BUSINESSES that hire illegals to compete unfairly against law abiding businesses.
Wages will rebound and you will see the working & middle class strengthened, and real unemployment go down, and the lefties will be BTFO for generations.
>>76242352
Middle class is $250K/yr. $35K/yr is poor. With 2-3 kids its dirt-poor.
>>76245019
>Middle class is $250K/yr
Nigger, that would mean America has practically no middle class. But yeah $35K/yr with like 2-3 kids is basically poor. If not, really close.
>>76233675
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Hillary+Clinton+Pandering
>>76236671
which is where his jewish real estate son in law comes in
>>76244659
>Regardless, it is true that illegal immigrants receive more in tax dollars (as a whole) than they pay.
The country receives more tax dollars from illegal immigrants than it loses.
>Because illegal immigrants are totally a stable demographic that will stick with one company for years? This seems unlikely to me.
I'm citing my country's (former) system of temporary foreign workers, where immigrants are brought in under contracts that last a specific term. Their visas are dependent on them working FOR the company that hired them.
But yes, the Postville story I cited earlier in the thread showed that they tend to stick around and are much more pliant as employees.
>But this does not mean they will totally disappear or become nonviable.
Many will go under from the sheer shock of:
- Losing their entire workforce in one swoop
- Facing criminal charges
- Having to absorb the costs of hiring a legal workforce
- Losing business as production grinds to a halt due to lack of labour
- Having to pay more for labour once it is procured
- Dealing with a workforce that is much more unstable and willing to up and quit
>Okay, so you hate teenagers too.
I'm guessing you've never actually worked with teenagers as an adult, have you?
>So yes, the government already has the ability to find these people; they just don't do it.
Again, at the cost of billions of dollars in extra costs.
In addition to the wall.
>>76245181
>Nigger, that would mean America has practically no middle class.
That would be correct.
>>76244783
>That just means mass importation of cheap labor.
So what? It works for us Canadians.
>Note, it doesn't have to be super cheap to save money; illegal immigrants already cost us a bunch as it is.
I've demonstrated before that this is a false view that selectively picks which facts it chooses to look at.
>And I am willing to pay the cost (in terms of tax dollars) if it keeps immigration under control and in favor of American workers.
Most Americans are going to get frustrated when their grocery bills are $50-100 more expensive (per week).
>I don't care, it just has to work.
So you don't care about the efficiency of government operations, even if the government winds up wasting billions of dollars?
How very...liberal.
>We aren't in a boom, but there's work to be found. And even if its only lower paying jobs, that won't stop illegals from coming. Mexico is far worse.
These illegal immigrants now have to compete with desperate Americans for those jobs with god awful wages and no benefits.
>>76245439
>The country receives more tax dollars from illegal immigrants than it loses.
Now you are just making up things.
>I'm citing my country's (former) system of temporary foreign workers, where immigrants are brought in under contracts that last a specific term. Their visas are dependent on them working FOR the company that hired them.
Do you honestly think we don't already have that now? When their visa expires, they go work for someone else. Guest worker programs and the like are not long-term stability guarantees. Far from it.
>But yes, the Postville story I cited earlier in the thread showed that they tend to stick around and are much more pliant as employees.
That's just an isolate case, it doesn't necessarily mean anything on the large scale.
>Many will go under from the sheer shock of:
First of all, illegal immigrants aren't going to all suddenly disappear in one swoop. Even if we do want to deport all of them as fast as we can, it won't happen. They'll gradually be let go and replaced by legal workers as political pressure piles on businesses. Everything else that you claim will follow is mostly conjecture.
Yes, businesses will have to absorb the costs of hiring legal people in some cases. This does not mean their business will suddenly be unprofitable. And most sectors don't have a large dependence on illegal labor to begin with. It's not some mysterious backbone of our entire economy. Not even close.
>I'm guessing you've never actually worked with teenagers as an adult, have you?
Of course I have and of course I would probably rather hire an illegal immigrant than a teenager, but that doesn't mean they are utterly incapable of working. You don't need stable, long-term employees in the fast food industry or picking fruit. You just need someone to do the job.
For visa overstays, you fine them and if they don't pay up, you round them up and deport them. It doesn't have to be a huge cost. The wall won't be a huge cost either.
everyone here knows its going to happen
just like how we know trump is going to be prez 2016
>>76245858
>So what? It works for us Canadians.
It's unfair to our own native labor. The facts are that we have large demographics of people that will never be highly skilled. That's just the way it is; we can't all work great white collar jobs. Somebody has to do the "lowly" stuff. Importing mass amounts of people deflates American wages at the expense of our own workers.
>I've demonstrated before that this is a false view that selectively picks which facts it chooses to look at.
No, you haven't at all. You just falsely assume that all business will magically go under without illegal immigration and thus those tax dollars should be counted for whatever reason. By the way, the vast majority of the federal revenue comes from personal income tax anyway not corporate tax.
>Most Americans are going to get frustrated when their grocery bills are $50-100 more expensive (per week).
This mythology from the agribusiness lobbyists. We have family farms that don't hire illegal immigrants and stay competitive on the market (as well as some imported foods of course). Agribusiness cannot afford to simply rack up prices without hurting their bottom liel.
>So you don't care about the efficiency of government operations, even if the government winds up wasting billions of dollars?
I don't care if we end up with a wall instead of a fence even if it "might" waste some money. It's better than having nothing there and that's what matters.
>These illegal immigrants now have to compete with desperate Americans for those jobs with god awful wages and no benefits.
That doesn't matter. American opportunity still eclipses Mexico. Even "desperate" Americans can't compete with a Mexican.
