Is abortion (aka "murder") inherently evil?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn-GL0ZD1Tg
>abortionsmoothie.webm
>>76222105
Abortion is only morally just if it is done to save the mother's life.
>>76222105
when you frame it the way she did, of course its evil..
thank god a woman this stupid didnt reproduce.. im sure this psychosis is a form of coping mechanism
>>76222374
Even still, the abortion is regarded as a tragic event.
Its just one dead is better than two dead so naturally you kill one.
>>76222105
Abortion is murder, but it does spare the baby's life of growing up in a shitty family and eventually becoming a nuisance to society.
Pretty much. We pretty much need it to help curb the nigger and slutspawn population, though.
>>76222105
Nope. Her body, her choice. The end.
Yep. It's not your body so it's not your choice.
>inb4 muh contrived technical definitions for life
>>76223008
>but it does spare the baby's life of growing up in a shitty family and eventually becoming a nuisance to society
>better to be dead than live a shitty life
Why are most pro-choice people suicidal?
If the abortion is getting rid of a nigger, genetically disabled person, retard, or extremely low IQ individual, it is helping the world.
ITT: Conservashits get buttrustled over women having rights.
If you plant a seed and then dig it out, you didn't cut down a tree. Deal with it you fucking man children.
Murder is not inherently evil
>>76223252
/thread
Christcucks can fuck off
>>76223351
This. But killing something that truly dindu nuffin is evil.
>>76223160
>I crawl up inside your asshole
>Decide to live there for a few months
>You try to remove me
>"Whoa there, this is MY body you're dealing with, you don't have a right to remove me!"
These are the same people who cheer when someone is killed breaking into a house. Cognitive dissonance out the ass
>>76222105
If you want to get an abortion then do it while the fetus is actually a "cluster of cells". Waiting until the second term is absolutely evil.
>>76222105
Abortion is evil when you treat it like this. People like OP's pic should be shot on sight.
>>76223279
If you don't want a baby, don't be a slit.
Also, it's unethical to take away somebody's future. It is murder.
>>76223615
>Kid starts growing because your dumb ass squirted your pathetic jizz into your whore girlfriend
>It's the kid's fault
>The kid made the choice to be in your whore girlfriend's womb?
Damn, dude. I suggest suicide.
>>76222105
>R.I.P. Baby <3
Every time
>>76223659
This t b h
>>76223160
Irrelevant.
Even granting that a fetus is a full-fledged, human citizen the moment of conception, the uterus is the woman's body, and she has every right to vacate it.
>>76223958
Sperm traveled up all the way to the egg to fertilize it. Seems like it wanted to be there to me. It IS the """"kids"""" fault
>>76222105
Yes
but it can be a necessary evil, I mean I am thankful of all the aborted nigglets that had potential to be niggers born into irresponsible parents
but I don't glorify anyone who aborts their own child willingly, anyone who boast about having an abortion should be shot 2bh
>>76224115
According to what law?
>>76223615
Are you alleging that the baby is trespassing? That's about the most hilarious defense I've ever heard for abortion.
>>76222105
Anyway, I think it's pretty immoral but law isn't meant to cover all of morality. For practicality reasons it should be legal so that the riff raff who keeps churning out kids doesn't completely overwhelm the country. I wouldn't approve of it and would immediately shun any woman who did that to my kid (since I have no say in the matter which is another contentious subject in my book.)
Abortion is an inherently immoral act unless it's to save the woman's life.
That being said it should be legal because it's a useful service. It should be pay out of pocket only.
>>76224117
because the world isn't black and white?
A potential human has rights, but they don't trump the mother's rights to bodily integrity and self-determination.
There is no competing right when somebody kills a pregnant woman.
>>76224155
lmao seriously don't procreate
my body my rules
its not hurting you so why do you care
dont like it dont look
:^)
>>76224115
Maybe the mother shouldn't be such a whore?
Also, the baby has a right to a future.
>>76224117
but it is tho
people are usually charged for muder for striking a preggo and killing the unborn baby
>>76224298
>Looks at flag
Now I understand why you agree with murdering babies in the womb.
>>76224304
Not an argument
>>76224270
Also not an argument
>>76224306
I would love to have a guest over who says this so I can find make up a reason to shoot them and claim they were trespassing.
>>76222105
I'm more than glad the baby won't live like shit or become shit but to be honest it's also teaching women to be really shitty people and avoid motherhood just to look "good" again for more sex.
>>76224201
It is not a legal right. It is a moral right.
>>76224325
Maybe not. Irrelevant to her right to make decisions about her body.
>Also, the baby has a right to a future.
Sure. If it survives the abortion, it's free to head on home and pursue happiness.
>>76224373
nevermind I read it wrong
Yeah it's murder but it's beneficial murder
blacks are currently 13% of the population and without abortion they'd be like 20%.
>>76224430
She made a decision about her body the moment she let a man shove his cock up her vagina and jizz into it. She needs to live with that decision.
The child has a right to life. Murder is immoral because you deny someone of their future, abortion is immoral in much the same way.
>>76224373
Not felony murder, normally it is man slaughter or a lesser charge. They can only be charged with murder if the baby has taken its first breath.
>>76224298
Either it's a clump of cells or a real being. If it is just a clump of cells then killing a pregnant woman should result in no additional charges than killing anyone else.
>>76224298
The right to self-determination isn't a right to a consequence free life. People who have sexual intercourse almost definitely have full knowledge that they could be creating a human life.
Consent to sexual intercourse is consent to carry a child to term.
>>76224587
That clump of cells would have became a person though. You have, in effect, denied somebody their right to life.
>>76224412
So under your view of the world you also have the right to throw your 3 year old child out of your house, right? They don't have any right to be there, it's not their house. They're trespassing. Damn kids!
C'mon, Stefan. Step up your game.
>>76224573
Yes, she did make a decision. Then another one. We get to make plenty of decisions.
>The child has a right to life.
It does not have a right to someone else's body. No one has a right to your body. Slavery is not ok.
Abortionists are a self-solving problem.
>>76224412
Jizz doesn't choose to do what it does. It is too simple to make choices which involve a frontal lobe and brain. It does what it does just like a virus does what it does. The fact that you need this explained just reaffirms that you should definitely not procreate. Trust me.
>>76222105
It's murder, but I support it. It's literally the only eugenic pressure in society today (that's a scary thought).
>>76224699
No they aren't you dumb spic. Nobody who has an abortion was aborted as a foetus.
>>76224689
Once you make a decision to have sex, your right to get rid of the child ends there. You cannot morally justify denying somebody their future. You have to live with the consequences of your actions.
>>76224735
>>76224699
I suppose in some twisted way it does prevent kids from being raised in morally bankrupt families. However, the kid could still choose to not be a degenerate scumbag and form his/her own views on the world.
Making it murder, but my fedora tips for you.
>>76224612
>The right to self-determination isn't a right to a consequence free life
Yes, but the right to bodily integrity does. Life is also engaged when bringing the child to term would create medical risks.
>Consent to sexual intercourse is consent to carry a child to term.
No it isn't.
To think I even considered aborting my mulatto daughters 8 months ago...
>>76224735
Not only that, but it also serves as a "social eugenics" of sorts.
Just this week a 10 year old niglet stole a car and got into a shootout with the police here in hueland. While reading the article, I kept wondering "would this lil nigga exist if abortion was legal?". Probably not.
>>76224672
Cool strawman, idiot. Do they not teach you how to argue in Portugal? Well I'd say that if you didn't want a kid in your house, you should have had an abortion
>>76224715
>It is too simple to make choices
Oh so it doesn't choose to be there, but the moment it gets there and is literally one cell, it's a full person with constitutional rights? Idk, sounds pretty retarded to me
>>76224587
>Either it's a clump of cells or a real being.
You're a simple guy, anon.
>>76224699
They really are paco.
They really are.
>>76225021
And I'd say if you didn't want to be pregnant, you shouldn't have had sex.
>>76224612
>Consent to sexual intercourse is consent to carry a child to term.
Consent to an action is not consent to all possible results of that action.
>>76224895
>Once you make a decision to have sex, your right to get rid of the child ends there.
Nope. You always get to make decisions about your body. At this time and all future times. You may change those decisions any time you please. It is your body.
The fetus may choose to vacate the premises, when asked. If it does not, and you wish it to leave your body? You have every right to remove it. At any point.
>>76223252
This
>>76224934
>However, the kid could still choose to not be a degenerate scumbag and form his/her own views on the world.
Yeah, but statistics. There's a lot of evidence to show that being raised in a bad home fucks you up. And there's also just the simple fact that blacks and hispanics are dumber and also are more likely to abort.
>>76225119
Yes it is.
>>76225021
It's not a strawman at all. It's exactly the same principle.
>Well I'd say that if you didn't want a kid in your house, you should have had an abortion
Not an argument. Stefan would be disappointed in you.
>>76225092
Nah. That's what separates us from animals
>>76225021
>sounds retarded to me
Which is why you should cut your nuts off and prevent the world from being affected by your useless presence.
Once the sperm meets the egg and fertilization happens, the child-formation process is set in motion, and you stopping it makes you someone who prevented a human life.
I don't know why you are bothering, though. Drink bleach, faggot.
>>76225092
Your stance is not pragmatic
And it certainly isn't couched in the values of integrity and self-determination that are the foundation of every modern first world nation.
You do not get to punish whores by forcing them to bring unwanted children into the world.
>>76222105
Abortion is a mercy killing. They're better off than being born to such worthless whores as mothers. They'd only grow up liberal or niggers.
Liberal Logic:
>"This is not a human, and abortion is not murder"
pic related
>>76225119
You have no right to murder a foetus, under any circumstances. That foetus has as much a right to life as its mother, and to deny it a future.
To deny someone the human experience is the ultimate evil.
>>76225344
Doesn't look like any human I've ever met
>>76225092
Well if Trump protesters didn't want to get assaulted, they should have stayed home. If the zygote didn't want to get aborted, it shouldn't have been fertilized
>>76225214
>It's exactly the same principle
How so? Please, explain your stupidity
>>76225344
/pol/ logic:
>I don't have an argument, but this picture is really gross!
If you resort to shock imagery, you're being an emotional faggot. Literally PETA-tier.
>>76225306
It's just the moral thing to do. As a society, we should treat those who murder foetuses the same as those who murder children.
>>76222105
Abortion is immoral if the fetus is going to die. Theoretically, you can abortion a pregnancy and not have it also result in the death of the fetus.
That being said, when the fetus does die, it is morally equivalent to murder; it is analytically true that murder is evil.
>>76225194
Nope. That's ridiculous. You may make choices now, and further choices later. You may take actions now, and additional actions later. Taking one action now does not limit you from taking additional actions to prevent the possible consequences of your earlier actions.
For instance: If you drive your car regularly, you wear down the break pads. The fact that you chose to drive the car does not mean that you have consented not to have breaks. You may choose, later, to replace the break pads. Via that later action, you may then negate the otherwise-inevitable consequences of your previous choice to drive the car.
>>76225494
>if the zygote didn't want to get aborted, it shouldn't have been fertilized
lmao you can't make this shit up senpai
>>76225494
That classic victim blaming, my friend.
The woman is not a victim of anything other than her own choices. She should be legally required to bring the pregnancy to term, and if she doesn't she should be tried for murder.
It is morally wrong to deny someone a right to life.
>>76225417
What you fail to grasp is the issue of remoteness.
It should be illegal to masturbate, because every sperm you kill could have resulted in a genetically unique human being with constitutional rights.
I'm pro-choice, because so many niggers abort.
>>76225417
>You have no right to murder a foetus, under any circumstances. That foetus has as much a right to life as its mother, and to deny it a future.
Incorrect. It is your body, and others have no right to it. First, you ask the fetus to leave. If it does not do so, you may take the necessary action to remove it.
>>76225540
law is nuanced and you're often dealing with competing rights
If you demand a black and white solution to everything, you're not going to create a sustainable system.
>>76225260
"LIFE IS PRECIOUS U SHOULD KILL URSELF!!!111"
>This is literally what conservatives believe
Man you people are fucking stupid. Look, sometimes a fertalized egg gets flushed out of the woman during a period anyway. Should she be charged with abortion?
>"this has potential to be a person so it has constitutional rights"
Idiotic reasoning
>>76223251
they try to find reasons, betraying the very american dream of going from dish washer to millionaire by claiming dish washers won't ever make it and should rather die. It's unconstitutional and wrong. Just a matter of time until some libshit claims all black people have a shitty life because someone called them a nigger, better safe them from the racism by killing them all.
>>76225807
I'm not conservative but good job having no reasoning, no argument, and sperging like I knew you would.
You're as predictable as a fertilized egg. And here I thought you would have developed a bit more. :^)
>>76222105
No, abortion is the right of any woman when the constrains of society mean it is financially unviable for a large proportion of women to be a stay at home mother.
It benefits a society where the minimum wage a man can earn will not be able to provide for at least two children.
If you want to make abortion illegal you must remove the ability of women to work and increase the salaries of men to cover this loss.
As the west saw when we allowed women into the workplace, men cannot provide enough money for women on their now reduced wages which was a direct result of the increased number of workers as women entered the field of employment.
If you want women to stop having abortions then remove their right to work.
Take Turkey for instance where Erdogan said "it is a muslims duty to have as many children as possible". This is possible because whilst women in muslim majority countries generally do not have the right to employment as men, the wages of men are increased to compensate for the loss of a working individual. And the spread of home duties is much more easily dealt with as there is no overlap. Men deal with the money and finances and women deal with matters of the home.
Of course I support the freedom of women to work and to have abortions.
>>76223251
yes stopping a thing from forming into a human or letting it be born, living a shitty life, and being a drain on society. also leading to people complaining about all these fags living on welfare.
aborting a baby or becoming another statistic, i wonder what is worse.
>>76225683
I make the choice to masturbate. I deny the right to life of millions of sperm, each who would have created a unique DNA code due to chromosomal crossover.
How do you respond to this?
>>76225539
"The truth is off limits if it makes me feel bad."
>>76224970
>No it isn't.
funny it still is for men, so it should be for women you know for equalities sake.
or maybe give men some of the "choice"
inb4
>U JUST WANT TO CONTROL WYMINS BODIS MISOGYNY!
doesn't need to involve her body at all.
>>76225685
But a sperm, on its own, does not have the potential to be a human. Doesn't matter what you do, the sperm will not become a human.
If, however, it comes into contact with an egg, that fertilised egg has not only the potential to be a human, but is in just the right conditions and environment. Barring a miscarriage, it will become a human being, and goes through predictable stages of development.
These are clearly two different things. Once something has the potential to become a human, it should be treated as such.
>>76223911
>Also, it's unethical to take away somebody's future. It is murder.
Perhaps you'll next be bitching about how private schools undermine the future of chldren who attend state schools.
Will you equate this to murder too you fucking liberal thinking cocksucker.
>>76226008
Pictures are not arguments, or claims. They are not truths. Yes: there is a picture. It is meaningless. The end.
>>76225944
It's not the same. A sperm can't create a human on its own unless you fuck with it in a lab.
>>76226050
It also already has a future of value like you or I.
>>76226082
Please into analogies, because this was terrible.
>>76225752
The foetus has a right to live. This trumps the right of the mother over her body, as the foetus does not pose any realistic threat to the mother. She should grin and bear it.
>>76225683
>She should be legally required to bring the pregnancy to term
Why? Without resorting to "but it's HER fault she's pregnant :,,,,,(" can you come ip with a good legal reason? And by that logic, don't you think a man should have to pay child support and half of the cost of all medical treatments too?
>>76226156
It doesn't have to be an argument for it to be the truth.
It is evidence. It supports an argument.
>>76226082
Do you... Do you know how to analogy, good friend?
I suggest you rethink what you wrote, as it makes little to no sense.
>>76226082
>abortion == murder
>liberal thinking
pick only one faggot.
>>76226204
because terminating human life is illegal. there, that was easy. doesn't matter who's "fault" it is that that life exists.
>>76223279
>implying a tree is the same as a human being
>>76222105
abortion is some cases is alright, people need to embrace technology and get rid of ancient ideologies that no longer apply to our world. but when you act like a stupid fucking cunt like she did then yea its bad.
>RIP baby
holy fuck that pissed me off
>>76224689
>It does not have a right to someone else's body.
That doesn't remove the fetuses right to life.
Rights aren't all equal. Some rights are more valued than others.
Right to life is the more valuable one from these two.
>>76225910
Not an argument
>>76226204
Because it would be immoral to terminate a pregnancy if that termination results in the death of the fetus. Moreover, murder is already illegal.
>>76226204
Because the foetus has the potential to become a human, and it's immoral to deny anyone of a future.
Yes, I do. Obviously. The man also chose to have sex, so he should raise his own goddamn child.
>>76223615
I'm pro abortion and I cheer when people get killed breaking into a house. Both result in one less criminal/future criminal on the earth
>>76226037
Men don't get pregnant
A man does not need to support the child until it becomes a legally recognized human
But you already knew that. You're just pretending to be retarded
>>76226390
You already lost your """""""argument""""""" and revealed your moral bankruptcy. That was merely a Coup De Grace.
>>76226326
>terminating human life is illegal
How about people who pull the plug on braindead relatives? Should they go to prison? After all, they're terminating life.
You want this dumb bitch to raise a child? Are you retarded? What do you even care?
>>76226182
Words have meaning you illiterate fuck.
In that instance "future" waas the crux by which he supported his argument.
To take ones future he equated to murder was his argument.
By definition my assessment of his statement is true. Learn to read you fucking imbecile.
>>76226197
The fetus may choose to leave the uterus. If it does not, the uterus owner may remove it by any means necessary.
>>76226515
Those people have no prospect of recovery. No prospect of ever living life again.
A foetus, on the other hand, has a very good prospect of living a full and long life.
>>76225807
>sometimes a fertalized egg gets flushed out of the woman during a period anyway.
> Should she be charged with abortion?
DO you have any fucking idea how the justice system works?
A crime, unless specifically said otherwise in the legislation, requires intent.
>>76226428
>immoral
MUH FEEEEEEELS
>>76226454
The potential to be something doesn't = that thing. An egg isn't a chicken, a seed isn't a tree, etc.
>>76226503
Still not an argument
>>76226515
>>76226645
>Implying doctor assisted suicide is legal
>Implying people actually have the right to terminate the life of terminally ill or disabled relatives
>>76226515
seeing as how you're retarded, i guess i would have to explain that there's exceptions
>life being terminated is a threat to other lives (as in criminals who get the death penalty and fetuses that present mortal danger to the mother carrying it)
>life being terminated will not have a normal, functioning life and will forever be unable to make decisions regarding its well-being
i know you're baiting, but I'm having fun.
>>76224373
This happened here last month, literally the most unbelievable story I've ever seen
>Some grill is pregnant and tells the guy she's getting an abortion (she's already booked in for it)
>He loses it and pushes her down the stairs, killing her and the foetus
>Unironically gets charged with double murder
>The fact she was about to have an abortion appears to be irrelevant
This is another reason I hate this so-called "equality" shit
>Women gets pregnant
>Wants to abort it
>Man wants to keep it
>Tough shit, it's getting aborted
>Women gets pregnant
>Wants to keep it
>Man wants it to be aborted
>Tough shit, enjoy your 18 years of payments for a child you'll never get to see and who'll hate you because of how much the "mother" will twist its mind
I seen that shit the other day where men are being forced to pay child support or maintenance or whatever the fuck it is for children that aren't even theirs, how the fuck does that even work?
>>76226636
You can say that all you like, it doesn't make it morally right.
The mother should be required by law to carry the foetus to term, unless she can prove she didn't make the conscious decision to carry it. Even then, therapy should be attempted to try and compel the mother to keep it. If the pregnancy is terminated it should be treated as murder.
The mother has no right to end the life of her child.
>>76226324
>>76226326
Reading comprehension you utter fuckwits, this is why legal documents have specific wording.
"Future" is ambiguous, you want to talk about how you disagree with something then call it the termination of life.
Don't sit behind non specific wording when writing an argument,
Fuck it's like i'm speaking to chiildren.... oh wait,
>>76226312
That abortion is icky?
That is not an argument related to the ethics of abortion.
>>76222105
No, most abortion is done against minorities like spics and niglets. In those cases it is the only moral option.
>>76226645
>Mental gymnastics
Bread dead people have a slight chance to recover, however remote.
>>76226674
Doesn't the crime have to be committed against a person? You know, NOT a clump of cells?
>>76226204
>by that logic, don't you think a man should have to pay child support and half of the cost of all medical treatments too?
so you think men right now shouldn't be responsible for the child at all unless they choose to be? since its totally 100% her decision to have a baby currently?
>>76226811
>The mother should be required by law to carry the foetus to term
Why what basis do you have for this argument?
>I had a baby sucked out of my body and killed :D
>>76226811
Incorrect.
I would refute your argument, but you have not made one. You have claimed as brute fact that women do not have a right to abortion.
That is simply incorrect, and not an argument.
>>76226050
You need to understand what potential means before you start making these arguments. "Potential" simple refers to inherent qualities or abilities. A sperm has the inherent ability to fertalize an egg and create a life. This ability, this "potential" is eliminated when the sperm is killed upon ejaculation.
Every time you choose to masturbate instead of cumming into some whore's vagina, you are eliminating millions of potential and unique lives than can never be reclaimed.
>>76225810
But the system is rigged so it's almost impossible to go from rags to riches these days with how the economy and business works. The few stories the media props up are not the norm, but the people who won the lottery to jump up to the upper class.
As for abortion, it should be safe, legal and rare. First off, teach people to use contraceptives, if they still get pregnant they are allowed to abort until the fetus can survive outside the womb without any life support. There also has to be just cause, since shit like this is unacceptable. >>76222105
>>76222105
No. Providing handouts to dysgenic hordes because they reproduce is the most evil thing anyone can do to a society. The government is promoting r-selected behavior.
Abortion is simple negative eugenics, barely stemming the tide against an endless onslaught of niglets and other unwanted mistakes. That being said, I do believe that if an abortion is undertaken, it should make the mother permanently infertile.
>>76226821
>muh reading comprehension!
>can't understand what is meant by "taking away someone's future"
Fuck it's like I'm speaking to an autist... oh, wait
>>76226698
So, by that logic, there's nothing morally wrong with killing anyone.
After all, they don't = their future self. They only have the potential to live into the future. Therefore, by your logic, murder isn't denying someone their future, as they only had a potential future anyway.
>>76222105
RIP BABBE
>>76226879
Why are you people still responding to this faggot? It's obvious he's baiting.
>>76226957
Thank you for adressing the argument... oh wait.
>>76226515
>How about people who pull the plug on braindead relatives?
>Should they go to prison? After all, they're terminating life.
Exception to a rule.
The braindead person has suffered trauma that has shut down his or her brain function to a point of no return. the person inside the body is dead.
>>76223008
Harsh truths
>>76226389
>Right to life is the more valuable one from these two.
can you point to a single case that articulates this? Most modern judiciaries place the right to bodily integrity and the right to life on equal footing.
This is why it is legal to kill somebody in self-defence, even if there was only an apprehension of serious injury.
>>76224306
If only your mother felt the same way.
:(
>>76227022
you have no argument. you're just shitposting about semantics
>>76226636
>The fetus may choose to leave the uterus.
No it may not.
the Fetus is physically incapable of making cognitive choices or reasoning, and thus is not responsible for its actions.
>>76226616
Taking one's future means to destroy it, which nothing about which school you attend does. Destroy does not even mean to savage their future, it means to cut it off for good.
Are you seriously as fucking thick as you're coming off?
>>76226698
>morals = feels
lel
>>76226515
Doctor assisted suicide isn't murder, which the poster seemed to be referring to.
>>76227039
Someone who is brain dead is legally dead. Beating or raping it would be defiling a corpse. Pulling the lifelines from someone who is brain dead is nothing.
>>76226928
Theres a difference between a fertilised egg and a sperm, you retard. A fertilised egg IS going to become a person, a sperm is not. No matter what conditions you place a sperm in, it will not, under any circumstances, become a foetus.
You are denying the foetus a right to a future, a future it is already set to have. That is indefensible and abhorrent.
>>76226981
Now you're getting into philosophy.
Does anyone have rights, afterall it is only other people that afford them those rights?
You can say it is an agreement between all people but rights don't tend to extend beyond borders. How can you consider the rights of one country to be just and whole when they are not enforced amongst other countries?
Should they be enforced beyond that countries' own borders? Is it morally just to do so whe other countries' have their own values and morals?
>>76226476
>women get pregnant therefore its her sole responsibility
ok
>A man does not need to support the child until it becomes a legally recognized human
so we push it back a month past birth then its all good i mean one arbitrarily line is as good as another right?
inb4
>but thats monsterous and murder its a person then!
a dog is more self aware then a baby for months after birth and we put them down for no reason at all.
>>76226800
If you murder a terminally ill person against their wished, its still murder. "They were gonna die anyway" is not a defense. There are no competing rights when a guy decides he wants to push somebody down the stairs.
Stop getting emotional and use your head.
>>76227127
Actually my argument was about 3 posts back, you didn't address it so you forfeited the argument in my favour.
Thank you.
I learned that my sister had an abortion. The baby daddy wasn't exactly of the best genetic stock, and neither of them were making money. I'm thinking that maybe it was for the best, but I have a hard time believing I would feel that way had the child not been aborted.
I don't think it's inherently evil, some children should never be born.
>>76222105
how is this shit not banned wherever she posted it?
>>76226883
Once a child is brought to term, their interests outweigh the financial interests of the parents. Its no longer about the mother and the father.
>>76222757
>thank god a woman this stupid didnt reproduce
And this in a nutshell is why we should support abortion. It's a necessary evil.
>>76227148
>Taking one's future means to destroy it,
Does it? A slave has his future taken by a master yet he still has a future. How can you consider this a destruction?
> Destroy does not even mean to savage their future, it means to cut it off for good.
Then why are there separate words for destroy and savage.
To destroy is to ruin absolutely.
To savage is to maim with chance of recovery.
Please go and read a dictionary, fill your head with actual defintions before you present an argument.
You spout words as if you know them, but you only know them in such a limited context.
>>76227315
lel yeah i'll happily concede your irrelevant tangent about private vs. public schools in an abortion argument.
>>76226811
Sounds obtuse that you put the rights of one over another because of your sense of reality.
What would happen if Britain was having the coldest winter ever and a family couldn't afford to stay in the apartment they were living in and the landlord was going to kick them out. However due to their condition the family would die immediately if they left the building from the cold. Should the landlord have the right evict the family given those circumstances?
With how the laws are written, they do have the right to do that even if it condemns a family to die. So why should a fetus be any different? Unless it can survive on its own outside of the womb, it's no better than a parasite.
>>76227233
>A fertilised egg IS going to become a person
That's not a certainty. What about miscarriages? illness? What if the mother dies?
You're arguing these lofty legal concepts, but you don't really understand how remoteness, causation and competing rights all play into it.
>>76225810
>Implying liberal Americans actually believe the American dream
>>76227409
cuck
>>76227516
Except they aren't required to care it support it at all if they don't want to.
>>76227648
We're talking about the language used to present an argument.
If you consider yourself to be a logical and trustworthy person you cannot expect anyone to believe the words coming out of your mouth when they are a contradiction when applied to event he most basic of logic.
But dismiss this type of thinking if you want, you'll never inspire if you cannot even appear infallible.
>>76227567
>unable to argue without a sheet of definitions in front of you
>completely unaware of implied meanings and figures of speech
fuckin' WEW my friend, I want some of whatever you're smoking
>>76226921
But women don't have a right to abortion. The right to life and a chance at it is the only God given right, all others are given by man. An abortion is a violation of human life and it's existence, so no man-made laws or perceived rights should allow for abortions to occur.
>>76227409
then we should kill everyone on welfare. Gas them all. the would would be a better place, no?
>>76227909
appeals to reason and vocalized political opinions are rarely, if not never legally worded arguments. And yet, on the whole, they have a 100% success rate.
argue that my autistic friend
>>76227713
The Landlord should be tried for murder, of course.
It seems we have intractable differences on this matter. I think murdering defenceless humans is wrong, and you think it is right. That's it, I'm afraid.
>>76228040
>God given right
>>76226879
>Doesn't the crime have to be committed against a person?
No? There are plenty of crimes which aren't committed against a person you fucking fool.
>>76226879
>Bread dead people have a slight chance to recover, however remote.
No, they do not.
>>76227082
>can you point to a single case that articulates this?
Many.
>Most modern judiciaries place the right to bodily integrity and the right to life on equal footing.
No, they don't. The severity of the violation plays a large part.
If someone grabs your arm and doesn't let go, he is violating your bodily integrity but you DO NOT have the right to kill him.
>This is why it is legal to kill somebody in self-defence, even if there was only an apprehension of serious injury.
It's decided case by case. You are only allowed to kill if it was understandable in the circumstances. Many times has the person acting in self-defence overreached his rights and has been committed for a crime.
And you can't use self-defence against something that isn't committing a crime. A fetus can be considered acting within the judicial term "necessity". IF it doesn't stay in the uterus and leech of its mother, it dies. It has no choice. The mother doesn't (greatly) suffer from this. The mother thus can't use a self-defence argument against the fetus.
>>76227938
And I suppose when a writer writes "the curtains were blue" he was talking of the protaganists inherent disposition to depression.
Get real lad.
>>76222105
Killing a baby is the most rehensible thing a person could possibly do.
But then women claim it's something okay to do if it's still in their belly??
I just can't even...
>>76227567
A slavemaster doesn't "take" a slave's future. The slavemaster influences the slave's future. If the slavemaster kills the slave, THEN the slavemaster has taken the slaves future. Hence, what I mean when I equate taken with destruction in this case. So, don't be obtuse. "Taking a life" is colloquially equivalent to "destroying a life", and I can't believe I even spent the time writing this out.
>>76227301
>a dog is more self aware then a baby for months after birth and we put them down for no reason at all.
Dog is not a human.
>>76228113
Vocal opinions are rarely subject to the scrutiny of wirtten ones.
Vocal opinions are forgotten, taken out of context.
Wirtten opinions are absolute, each word was carefully thought out as it lacks the humanizing context of vocal opinions.
And if it wasn't thought out it is not worth reading.
>>76228118
But the law is written where it gives the landlord the right to evict even if it results in the death of those being evicted.
Does this mean you want to trump the rights and obligations of the landlord in eyes of the law, to favor of the family because of your morality?
>>76227750
>What about miscarriages?
Exception. An accident.
Just like storms or earthquakes.
R.I.P. BABY
SELFIES
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEJEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE
>>76227750
There's a high likelihood.
You don't seem to understand. The rights of the foetus trump those of the mother. The foetus has the right to a future, a future it is very likely to experience. You don't have the right to destroy potential human life. Potential human life is anything that, in its current state, can become a human being if in the right conditions.
Regardless, I think we have intractable differences on this issue. I cannot morally agree with abortion on any level, I'm afraid. To me, it is abhorrent.
>>76224298
>because whatever advantages a woman goes
signed a feminist
>>76228230
>what is future
>Clearly it does not mean every moment from now until I die.
>slaves have no end to their bondage
>yet slavery is not the theft of ones future
You are a special kind of fuckwit, did your parents ever tell you that?
>>76228415
You don't seem to understand; I disagree with the law in the first place.
I'm talking about what ought to be the case, not what is the case.
>>76223351
That's actually what murder means. You mean to say killing isn't inherently evil.
>>76222105
>women who get abortions are almost always unfit to breed, and are overwhelmingly minorities
>women who are against abortion are usually pretty good parents and white
I don't see a problem here.
>>76228164
strawman fallacy. if the observer of the curtains was stated as depressed (context), that contextual clue would certainly spark that implication in a competent reader
>>76228334
you didn't address my argument, or failed. I can't tell which. written opinion is all but dead. not that it matters, because in the political arena people write the way they would talk anyway.
>>76228301
a fetus is
>>76228589
>slaves are never freed
>slavemasters never die
Wew, lad
>>76222105
>Abortion is murder but bombing shitskins in other countries isn't
Good job America.
What about abortion if you find out the kid is going to have down syndrome? That is my greatest fear in life as we plan to get kids not before our 30s.
>>76224298
>A potential human has rights, but they don't trump the mother's rights to bodily integrity and self-determination.
So a person's right to self-determination is more important than another person's right to live?
Pretty sure the hierarchy of rights is different, leaf.
>>76228724
Collateral damage, matey.
>>76228670
>context is absolute and linear and not regressive
>all writing has some context
And yes I did adress your argument as their is a diference between those points.
>>76228724
>killing in war is murder
good one stalia
>>76228708
>What is status quo
>>76228810
As is abortion to make sure a chick keeps a rocking bod.
Same diff really.
>>76228633
Murder: The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
Something can be unlawful while being just
>>76228589
>slaves have no end to their bondage
And what do you base this on?
Slaves have been given freedom many times.
Death is an irredeemable phenomenom. There is no going back, there is no changing it.
Slavery is not that. Slavery can be ended. slaves can become not-slaves.
The Dead can't become living again.
>>76228622
And there in lies the problem, you want to trample over the rights of person A in favor of person B even when the law favors person A because of your personal opinion on the situation and also change the law to put a burden on person A to support person B even when person A has no obligation to.
>>76228771
Mind blown.
>>76228879
If the chick is white it is immoral.
Any other race they are doing a service to humanity.
>>76228528
>There's a high likelihood.
A sperm has a high liklihood of becoming a child if you ejaculate it into a vagina
A fetus has a high liklihood of becoming a child if you don't abort it
A high likelihood isn't the same as a certainty. You don't understand this fundamental concept, and because of this your entire argument is flawed.
>>76227311
But then why don't women get charged with murder for aborting babies?
A man is a murderer if he kills a fetus. A woman is not. Why the fuck?
>>76223251
It's not a person yet, it's not.
Unless you believe some stupid fairy tale shit about "souls", which has no place in politics.
You do not develop any real personality or persona past basic genetic dispositions towards traits until you're at least 2 or 3.
>>76228724
Killing isn't always murder. Any sane society recognizes the difference between lawful killing and unlawful killing, and only the latter is murder.
>>76228832
>a post on a new zealand eel portrait forum is ever without context
I don't think I've ever wew'd this hard before
>>76228969
I'm talking about what ought to be, not what is.
I don't argue about what should happen in Saudi Arabia on the basis of sharia law.
I've been looking for an excuse to post this.
>>76229004
>A sperm has a high liklihood of becoming a child if you ejaculate it into a vagina
The sperm does not become a child.
The sperm provides the genes to the egg, which then becomes a child.
>>76229005
Because if you live in the Western world, your life as a man is worth less than a woman's. At least politically speaking.
Since women constitute the majority of voters, and are more likely to vote than men, politicians pander to them and men become second class citizens.
>>76222105
This picture and this video make me sick.
I'm not even in the mood to post a pepe right now.
That sick.
>>76228415
false equivalency. a person evicted from their place of residence is not guaranteed to die, EVER. a fetus """"evicted"""" from a uterus prematurely is certain to die, every time.
>>76229004
A passenger plane also has a high likelihood of going through a safe flight. That doesn't mean it is flawed to suggest shooting down that plane is wrong.
It is the same with a foetus.
>>76229005
>But then why don't women get charged with murder for aborting babies?
Because they have a competing interests. Sometimes the interest of life, always the interest of bodily integrity
Someone who pushes a woman down the stairs has no competing interest. If a woman pushed a pregnant woman down the stairs, she would be just as culpable.
Does that make sense?
>>76229082
Which is the problem, you want to take away the rights of some people to favor someone else. When in the current system they have the right to make the decision that affects the other person.
And you do that in the name of saying that a fetus has rights. Which is what makes it such a joke.
>>76228932
I base this on the fact that slavery is not a contract with an end date, that it is upon the masters whim to set a slave free.
Uncertainty about ones future is not freedom, which brings u back to the argument about the destruction of ones future.
The removal of liberty is tantamount to destruction, if you disagree head over to my homeland.
I'll provide you with a contract of "employment" whereby you will be given £1 per year to do whatever the fuck I want.
After 30 years with no end in sight tell me I have not destroyed your life and I will concede the point.
Disagree and you've proven it for me.
>>76222105
I'm still on the fence about this. One the one hand, abortion kills loads of niggers before they have a chance to nog. On the other hand, I don't like the idea of giving hormonal, irrational beings control over the fate of another human being. I guess if it were up to the father, I'd be okay with it, but cunts have this ridiculous notion that they're sane, rational creatures who should be trusted with responsibilities beyond child rearing.
>>76229058
Detracting from the argument.
Way to bow out gracefully.
>>76228118
>The Landlord should be tried for murder, of course.
Not murder.
Negligent homicide.
>>76229340
Yes, I want to take away their rights in this instance. I do not think the laws are as good a they could be. If I think a law is fundamentally flawed, I won't argue within its framework.
>>76229280
Read all the posts before trying to use a fallacy fallacy.
Also the woman is the landlord and the fetus is staying for free. If the Fetus can survive outside the mother without any outside assistance, it's a human being and has all the rights. Otherwise it's still just a potential one, just like any sperm or egg is.
>RIP BABY <3
>>76228969
"Doing the right thing is hard" the post.
Morally bankrupt
>>76229149
Oh God... how do people like this exist? I just cannot understand. How does it feel to literally be unable to have any logical thoughts at all? It's like they are a different species.
>>76229150
Then it's murder every time a woman bleeds an egg out of her uterus (she could have avoided it by using birth control to delay her period)
>>76229424
>having fun is not possible when arguing
no. you're also wrong here >>76229348, you never addressed that anon's point that slavery is not necessarily permanent, and yet death is. This destroys your previous argument that slaveowners "take" their slaves "futures", they take the present sure, but the future is undecided as long as the slave lives
>>76229150
>>76229281
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnZjfGxSAUY
>the female body kills most of them anyways
>only a single one counts
>women get rid of at least an egg every cycle
Do you not have sex ed?
If you don't like abortion, don't get one. Simple as that. No one is forcing you to abort your pregnancy and it's not your place to tell anyone else that they cannot get an abortion if they desire. I see it as a perfectly acceptable procedure for an unwanted pregnancy.
How about all of you stop worrying about what other people are doing with their lives?
>>76222105
Good god, I'm okay with abortions before 6 months, and after under specific medically necessary circumstances as well as cerebal palsy/microcephaly if it is known, but I don't think it is something to be proud of doing.
It speaks to the morals of an individual as well as their maturity if they are getting abortions repeatedly as well as if they are boasting of it.
Absolutely fucking degenerate.
>>76229348
>I base this on the fact that slavery is not a contract with an end date, that it is upon the masters whim to set a slave free.
A contract can be broken by either side or even a 3rd party.
Death is not a contract, but a physical fact.
A contract can be broken. You can't cheat death.
>After 30 years with no end in sight tell me I have not destroyed your life and I will concede the point.
You have indeed destroyed 30 years of my life, but my future is not decided.
I can break the contract whenever and wherever possible by running away and dissapearing.
After those 30 years I still have decades to do the fuck I want, if the contract ends.
Death is no contract.
>>76229517
>>76229570
Then i assume you are in favor of full government assistance for the children if the parent can't take care of the child? medicaid, prenatal care, head start, food stamps, free primary and secondary education, public housing, and social security to purchase clothing and supplies?
>killing niggers is bad
>>76224298
This also brings into question the genetic integrity and self-determination of the father of said fetus, why should the father not be able to legally mandate the mother to have an abortion if the mother is able to legally abort the child without the father's concent (except for cases of proven rape)
>>76229912
No, just enough government assistance so the child doesn't die.
>>76229673
Except that natural occurences by definiton are not crimes.
The unfertilized egg requires the sperm genes to become a fertilized egg and to become a fetus.
A woman has the right to decide whether she wants sperm to fertilize her egg.
>>76229521
well at least you got to the heart of the argument, even if you did make a gigantic leap of an assumption.
> If the Fetus can survive outside the mother without any outside assistance, it's a human and has all the rights
I'm gonna need a non-partisan, scientific source or a really convincing argument on that one. I say human life beyond a separate sperm and egg (i.e. a zygote) is human life.
>>76229752
You are ignoring that the egg itself isn't human and thus doesn't have rights.
it requires sperm to become one.
>>76222374
Or if the baby is some kind of mutant or retard.
>>76222105
No. What's evil is not aborting your child. There's no act more cruel that forcing some child to live in this shithole world.
I wish I were aborted.
Abortion is just another way of not holding women responsible for their actions. Obviously, I'm alright with abortion in exigent circumstances (rape, incest, life of the mother), but using it as a form of birth control is extremely degenerate.
It is not that hard to take birth control pills or wear a condom. And given that young people can often get access to birth control for free there is no excuse not to use them. This is just another example of women not being responsible for their actions.
With greater freedom, must come greater responsibility.
>>76229974
The idea that somebody has a right to their DNA and genetic material is certainly interesting. It comes down to a question of competing rights though
The father saying:
>I don't consent to the birth of a fetus made with my genetic material
Doesn't really trump the mother saying:
>I don't consent to unnecessary and potentially life-threatening surgery
>>76229912
Child services
If you can't take care of your child it is your duty to give it to someone who can.
>>76230329
>(rape, incest, life of the mother)
one of these is not like the others
how does rape or incest make the fetus less of a person?
I mean clearly if you don't think it is a person to start with (current law) then its all good but if you don't agree with that how can you possible be ok with killing the fetus for those reasons?
there really isnt much debate... you are either against murdering the helpless ... or you defend it because you yourself are a degenerate incomplete human being.
>>76230462
stupid leaf. you have and probably will always ignore the fact that "consent" to give birth is given when she lets an erect penis ejaculate inside her (rape/etc aside). how would you argue this, if you fucking can? oh, that's right, you'll just dance around it like a good liberal
>>76230057
I was just using a concert example that actually is in the books as opposed to something ambiguous. And seeing as there still isn't an acceptable consensus on when life begins, I don't feel the need to provide to your standards for burden of proof.
I just believe in self reliance, if a person who is brain dead is on life support, are they still a person in a legal sense?
>>76222374
Or if it's a nigger.
>>76230739
>I just believe in self reliance, if a person who is brain dead is on life support, are they still a person in a legal sense?
IF they are brain dead they are dead.
>>76230307
You can always kill yourself. Your body, your choice.
>>76230739
cooooouuuple differences in your analogy which you attempt to gloss over.
>woman is landlord and fetus is tenant
except the fetus didn't choose to be there, it was forced to be there.
>comparing brain-dead/on life support to a fetus in the womb
well, hopefully you can see how retarded that comparison is, if that's the one you were trying to make
>>76230700
Because the three reasons I stated are outside of the mother's control. And my position is more practical - very few would support forcing a woman to carry a rapist's child.
I'm not arguing about when a fetus becomes life, because people will never agree on a specific date.
I'm just arguing from a perspective of personal responsibility. Isn't personal responsibility at the heart of individual liberty?
>>76230832
Only if its a nigger,
>>76230725
>both can force the other into an unwanted situation
what your suggesting is fairer then the current arrangement
>women can do as she wishes fuck the dad
but its a worse choice then just letting the father walk away
>mother can do as she want so can dad
>>76222105
No because it keeps the dindu population in check
>>76231088
i.... think you replied to the wrong post
>>76231166
>meanwhile white women also get abortions
>death of the enemy's race trumps the life of my race
I think you've lost sight of your cause, stormfag
