Does anyone else think that we've gone too far into individualism to go back?
>>74972756
Who gives a shit? Are you going to fight or not?
>>74972756
what? we're nowhere near individualism we have become collectivist as fuck
>>74972847
Do you seriously think most westerners are in fighting shape save for maybe the military and those into martial arts?
>>74972904
Selfie culture, narcissism, the self-esteem movement, gender politics...all of it caters towards hyperindividualism.
>>74972979
The fight is not physical yet.
>>74972979
>Selfie culture, narcissism, the self-esteem movement, gender politics...all of it caters towards hyperindividualism.
All that caters toward group think. The group takes selfies so I must take selfies. The group engages in gender politics for the interests of the group, thus I must engage in gender politics for the interest of my group. And so on.
>>74973270
That's one way to look at it, although it still promotes worthless vanity.
Nah
WHY ARE YOU PROMOTING THIS JEWESS OP
>>74973933
Rand was a huge promoter of individualism and staunchly anti-collectivist, so it fits.
>>74973270
this
real individualism is frowned upon.
thats rather a good thing
>>74973318
>one way to look at it
No. It's the correct way to look at it.
Individualism is on a serious decline in this country.
>>74973992
yes, gullible goy
rand isn't either her name, goym
>>74974128
No, I don't buy that it's the 'correct' way at all.
>Individualism is on a serious decline in this country.
Completely false. Look at people who demand people use their pronouns, look at how hedonistic and selfish they act. That is individualistic to its core.
>>74972756
Most of West no, but USA yes. One of the pillars of your country is the individualism.
You create was made upon individualism.
>>74974245
You could easily argue that this is conformity to the LGBTBBQ group, especially given most of them have no such impulse until being exposed to it and implanted with the desire to seek the group's approval
>>74974800
Sure it could be conforming to a group, yet their actions contradict that through selfish attention seeking.
Or, what they feel to be group approval is actually a narcissistic hunger for validation.
The internet is the cause of the worst parts of individualism AND groupthink combined.
Just look at 4chan for the most raw, degenerate example.
If you want to fight back, shut off the net, throw away the computer and find like minded people who want a REAL community in which nobody can hide behind a screen.
it's physically impossible to fight this with modern technology becuase modern technology is the cause.
>>74972756
no. it comes and goes in waves. consider: there was a fair bit of individualism coming out of the industrial revolution into the 30's, as people had more disposable income and women became more independent. Then during WW2 and immediately after, there was a resurgance of nationalism and social conformity. people had a sort of collective unity in their vision for the future.
then at the tail end of the 60's well into the 70's, boomers were all about individualism, and became the hippies.
since boomers raised Gen X and Gen Y, gen X specifically, sort of rebelled against everything.
Gen Y is fairly involved in individualism, but there is a very strong desire for belonging, since Gen y has no real indentity. which is why they are nostalgic for past times, like the 50's and 80's, when there was a strong national identity that everyone identified with.
Im not good at explaining this, but its something like that.
just like the pendulum swings between liberal and conservative, individualism is tied with it. the more liberal, the more individualistic we become. the more conservative, the more we begin to group collectively under national identity
>>74974245
Of course you don't buy that it's the correct way. You're probably one of those wishy-washy people who have been duped into believing that no objective truth exists.
>>74975223
>objective truth
Don't instill that horseshit in this thread.
>>74974962
>>74975078
>If you want to fight back, shut off the net, throw away the computer and find like minded people who want a REAL community in which nobody can hide behind a screen.
I think you and I both know that we're beyond the point of that being possible.
>>74974961
You seem to be confusing attention seeking with individualism. None of the liberals today are individuals. They only see themselves as parts of some group.
It's precisely this introspective outlook that defines you as an individual. It's the ability to see yourself and identify yourself as an "I"
Fuck it, let's stop discussing this shit and just go do something useful, like go raid /lgbt/
>>74975154
The internet has killed society and societal wide trends forever, it's the ultimate atomization, where every person is alone behind a sexless screen. Nobody on the internet is part of ANY group, they just pretend. They're really just sitting alone in their room.
There aren't any more subcultures, communities and shared values at all. The internet is the end of society. Unless we kill the internet we will never see any sense of collective responsibility ever again.
>>74975399
I still remember after elections democrats and republicans could still share a beer as Americans. Now it seems it's a huge "who's dick is bigger" contest.
>>74975305
>objective truth
>horseshit
Go on believing that there is no objectivity in life and you'll end up miserable and poor
>>74975428
>You seem to be confusing attention seeking with individualism.
It's certainly a facet of it. Although this would go into some discussion about the concept of 'self' which is not what this thread's intention is.
Even a staunch individualist will require some form of socialization. You can adhere to individualism all you want but unless you're a schizoid your natural drive will lead you to seek others. Hell it's what we're doing right now.
>It's precisely this introspective outlook that defines you as an individual. It's the ability to see yourself and identify yourself as an "I"
We're in agreement here.
>>74975644
Never stated that, but I'm not a subscriber to 'objective truth' having much validity, if any.
>>74974092
>tfw somewhat in-between 3 and 4
Not even memeing.
Can I turn back?
>>74972756
In the sense that Rand meant it, we're not even vaguely individualistic or selfish as a culture.
But the sense in which she meant it is almost the opposite that people mean it in our vernacular.
>>74972756
Oh we'll go back because society will collapse and all the individualist psychopaths will die because group effort is more effective.
>>74975773
>Even a staunch individualist will require some form of socialization.
Absolutely. But socialization (that is, spending time with others) has little to do with individualism. A person who recognizes themselves as an individual can be the brightest social butterfly or a hermit. What matters is that they realize their own existence.
>too far
Maybe we haven't gone far enough?
>>74975773
>Never stated that
You're right; you didn't. Another poster did. My apologies.
>>74972756
We need to go further
>>74977382
Ego praise this man
>>74972756
>implying individualism is bad
>>74978270
>>74978270
Employment is an action of working under you're own self interests. Employment is nothing but a trade deal. Respecting property rights also doesn't go against following your own self interest. It's just an acknowledgement of someone else following their own self interests
>>74978270
Working for my boss IS in my rational self interest since I make more money under better working conditions than I would if I started my own business.
That will not always be the case though. And when it ceases to be the case, I will adjust accordingly.
>arbitrary private property rights
Nothing arbitrary about them. Being British, you just have no idea what private property actually is.
>>74978747
>Nothing arbitrary about them.
Well spooked, my property
>>74972756
Are you fucking insane? The hivethink in this board alone should show you that America has nothing to do with individualism at all
>>74978381
>laborers have the most power
Tfw they don't own the capital nessesary for production
>>74977700
Ich hab' Mein Sach' auf Nichts gestellt
>>74974092
>They said the same thing about black people being allowed to vote
and they were right
>>74972979
>Selfie culture, narcissism, the self-esteem movement, gender politics...all of it caters towards hyperindividualism.
Individualism - if you would care to define it - is when it is recognized that each member, by their very nature possess inalienable rights, and the system is based on the universal acceptance of these individual rights.
Collectivism is when the individual may only act insofar as he serves the needs and desires of others. Every individual is subjugated to the collective, his only right is to serve others.
>>74980106
This. Being a self-important faggot doesn't make you an individualist. The main things that make for an individualistic society, namely, social and economic self-reliance, have been absolutely plummeting in the West for decades.
>>74972756
Not at all.
The problem is people lack logical thought and reason, acting off of base desires and impulses.
Irrationality is the problem, and becoming more collectivist or individualist won't change that.
I do have to ask though, what would you suggest instead of individualisim?
>>74975305
>He bought into the solipsism meme
>>74979155
>2016
>being a stirner poster
>being illogical
>>74981236
>2016
>submitting your ego to logic
>>74981405
If you don't submit to logic, then how did you come to the conclusion that one should focus on what is best for the ego?
>>74975305
>implying the existence of the objective truth that there is no objective truth
kek
>>74975984
No way to turn back now. However as long as you don't start reading all of Evola, Nietzsche, Spengler, Yockey, Benoist, and Faye you will continue to be in dream land. The rabbit hole never stops growing but Traditionalism is simply the umbrella term for the final stage.
>>74981543
>should
Spook
>>74972756
I'm not giving up my individualism so /pol/ can be satisfied because I played their game like a good boy.
Fuck you.
>>74981543
>>74981681
""""""""""philosophy""""""""""
>>74981681
If you shouldn't care about the ego, then why do you care if you submit it to logic?
>>74981762
I meant to link to
>>74981405
>>74981681
Sry >>74981543 hope youre not hurt.
>>74972979
"Hyperindividualism" yeah being a slave to trends and social media is collectivism senpai
>>74981803
Nah, I'm fine. If I ever come to the day where comments on 4chan hurt me, I should soon die, as one so sensitive could never keep the will to go on living.
>>74975497
>no more subcultures/community
>literaly furries became a subculture becuase the internet allowed em to share their degenerate thought anonimously and managed to form their little communities
>comunities for games (fighting games mmo other bullshit like this)
>most egalitarian principels live on the internet as anonimity also removes a lot of things that could diferentiate people.
The internet capacity to connect a faggot from romania with a faggot in the united states makes it the best catalist for collectivism. People already sickened by the real world and all its bullshit come here to form enclaves and comunities where they feel good.
The internet makes it so much easier to notice responsability of the human race(see a shit ton of campagings with more traction on the internet than irl regarding global warming and other bullshit like this)
>>74972979
>Do you seriously think most westerners are in fighting shape save for maybe the military and those into martial arts?
why is that the deciding factor? we collectively pay for more noggers welfare than we ever have before
sooooooooooooooooo individualist!
>>74972756
Yes for all Western countries except 'merica, Christianity still exists in your country and you still have lots of constitutional-Libertarian types too.
>>74981604
Do you agree that a bit of Joseph Campbell is also important?
>>74982065
>letting Unbidden expand that much
>doesn't control over 1/3 of the map after 200 years
>minuscule fleet heading into 2400s, let alone pitiful fleet capacity with that amount of territory
Why even post this embarrassment?
>>74972756
>to go back
Go back... to what?
>government not being greedy
>not embracing the fact that everyone is fucking greedy so may as well have a system that embraces it
Your government or your group will never care about you.
>>74981777
I can use logic so long as it benefits myself. However I don't need to tie myself down for the sake of being 'logical'. That is called being spooked. There's no obligation NOT to be spooked, however. That would be a spook too. But I'll shitpost you for it.
>>74974245
>Look at people who demand people use their pronouns, look at how they want laws made about it
nice try
>>74982728
I understand stirnerism, my point is it's fucking retarded.
>>74982728
>>74982728
>I don't need to tie myself down for the sake of being 'logical'.
2 L8 m8
>>74972904
>>74972756
It depends on what kind of individualism you mean. What we have today is a great deal of individual freedom, but collective responsibility. You can fuck everything with a pulse, tell the world about it and still expect the government to pick up the bill for AZT or antibiotics when you get AIDS or the clap. As a society, we need to maybe do a little clamping down on individualism, but if you drop the collective responsibility, the problem might take care of itself.
>>74972756
I think you've gone too far jumping to conclusions, OP
I am a solid individual and I understand the need for collectivism just fine
>>74982913
It's a good tool for shitposting though
>>74982999
>individual freedom
>expect the government to pick up the bill
Pick one. You cannot have individual freedom while you are forced to subsidize other's degenerate lifestyle.
>>74972756
>m-muh collectivism
I too love being exploited by my leaders just because of what group I happened to be born into at random it's also great for a countries economy and I wish I lived in Venezuela
>>74983042
Only if you're dealing with the uneducated.
But yes, it is good for that.
And the concepts of spooks itself is a good tool, but when people take it too far it becomes, like most every extreme, idiotic.
>>74972756
What are you children talking about when mentioning individualism? The kids you see taking selfies and women talking about themselves is _NOT_ individualism as they politically always and without fail fully support collectivism and are against any form of hierarchy. Those ideals such as identity politics you have mentioned are only individualist on the surface, it's always about "the community" in these programs. Do not mistake words and stop indulging in "this generation is bad" dreams. Get up, work and do something. You people make me mad and will have to be the first to go in the purge. Like giant stones slowing us down, our movement needs to get rid of your weak kind to go into the offensive.
>>74983432
>the first to go in the purge.
and what "purge" might that be
lol
>>74972756
Absolute human wide "brotherhood of man" collectivism and hyper-individualism are actually the same thing. They're designed to suppress natural group identities which are the only thing holding back globalist forces.
How coincidental that there are hordes of Jews at both "opposite extremes."
>>74972756
i hope that filthy cunt is burning in hell.
eat shit and die libcucks
>>74985096
>libcucks
The fuck are you talking about?
Into? What do you mean? There's no individualism around today bar the whispers of Molyneux and his ilk on their corner of the internet.
>>74972979
>selfie culture
Nothing to do with individualism any more than smoking or eating pepperoni is. Its just a habit people have.
>the self-esteem movement
Trying to strong-arm individuals into lying that you're beautiful is not individualism.
>gender politics
Its in the name. GENDER. Identitarianism is individualism.
This generation is more collectivist than ever. Everything is seen through the lense of identity politics.
>>74974245
>demand people use their pronouns
Again, not individualism. Individalism not "I'm a special snowflake" its "the individual has fundemental liberty whether people like it or not".
Hedonism has nothing to do with indiviudalism. Read a book mongoloid.
>>74985649
But as each identity must be represented it has become for individualistic. Take humanism a universal human group.
Now it's Humanism+ with a group for only blacks, a group for only LGBTQ, Whites not allowed to join ect.
>>74979053
Stiner isn't a NAP Ancap. He thought people should just steal the shit if they wanted it.
