Why have western women become such sluts? How many guys do you think the average attractive girl has slept with by the time she's 30? What does this mean for western men and future political policies?
>>74126281
>How many guys do you think the average attractive girl has slept with by the time she's 30?
These days? Somewhere in the hundreds.
They are like that because western culture no longer criticizes women or holds them accountable for anything. Feminists may say that "society" "slut shames" women, but it really does not. In fact, "society" encourages women to be huge sluts and constantly tells them how cool it is.
>>74126281
its fucking bullshit and only men with a mindset of sexual predator honestly believes this
>>74126281
Better question: do you honestly think that men are having less sex than women? Why are humans so bad at controlling their animal impulses when left to their own decisions?
>>74126664
No it isn't. Hello, femanon.
>>74126281
Who cares
>>74127129
t. gaylord
>>74127490
I'd love to be gay, but I'd have to fuck a guy.
I could never fuck something that I respect.
>>74126866
Yes. Because sex is fun.
>>74126664
learn english before posting here you estonian nigger
>>74127605
I wish I could just flip a switch and be gay
>Tons of anonymous sex
>Never having to put up with women
>All the sex you get is anal and oral
If only benis did it for me
>>74126281
>Why have Western women become so promiscuous?
Because there is no recourse for having pre-marital sex. I don't know why this is so tough for /pol/ users to understand. Even on /pol/, a traditionalist board that claims to value modesty, we'll brag about the number of girls we fucked and how we fucked them. There isn't any real value being placed on chastity anymore, mostly because it isn't being practiced in any way other than by necessity.
>number of guys by 30
I know a girl who just turned 20. I can say for certain that she has fucked at least 7 guys, including me. The actual number is probably much higher than that.
>what does it mean for the future
Marriages fail more frequently. More men will become lifelong bachelors.
>>74127864
you forgot
>huge prevalence of STDs
>women
>having opinions of their own
The whole thing is spiraling out of control for you keks because you stopped treating them as they are genetically programmed to be treated. Man is physically stronger, and therefore he decides on everything. I mean let's be honest here, all authority or whatever comes from force, you break a law and the state sends its police to do violence, and this is how everything else works as well.
Your men are at fault. They lift heavy things. They build stuff. They solve problems. They dictate the rules.
Better question is why did western men became so soft and disgusting.
>>74126866
>do you honestly think that men are having less sex than women
Uh, yeah, or equally. Every woman has a lot of guys ready and willing to fuck them at all times whether the woman is interested in them vs men who struggle to get fucked. That's just the way it works.
>>74126866
Yes. An attractive 20-30 year old girl is having way more sex than most 20-30 year old guys
>>74126281
>How many guys do you think the average attractive girl has slept with by the time she's 30?
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/08/tinder-hook-up-culture-end-of-dating
The women don't even know. Half of their sexual encounters just "don't count." If the sex wasn't very good, or it didn't last long enough, or if she was kind of drunk at the time, or if it was a pity lay... those don't add to your number.
Women are whores... but they don't want to feel like whores, so they'll convince themselves any way possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il6vDd5R0oA
>>74128606
I wish you faggots would fuck more
>>74127432
You should. The more guys a girl has fucked the higher her chance of HPV and other stds. Then when you get your turn, you get to contract the HPV virus which causes all types of great cancers. Or you get to contract gonorhrea and destroy your fertility. Or you can get herpes. It is all correlated with the number of guys a girl has fucked. Dumb ass
Alll women are whores now.
The sexual revolution should just be called the Chad revolution
Average women has a laycount of 50
Average male has a laycount of 2
Average Chad has a laycount of 300
>>74126554
I don't think that's the average though....
They are brain washed to grow their beef curtains on the cock carousel. There are huge margin for the tissues harvested in labia plasties. That surgery has been booming year after year, for the past decade or so.
>>74130456
Why not? Do you think all women are pure angels like people told you growing up?
>>74130249
What if yours is like 15-20 by 25...i'd say that's not too bad
>>74130554
Of course not but i've met prude girls and i've met sluts...There are alot of sluts, but there are also alot of prude girls too.
>>74130494
This is actually a very good point.
When a woman tells you she is a "virgin", or only had sex with 1 or 2 guys in total, how the fuck can you even be sure she is telling the truth?
>tfw 26 and never kissed a girl
>>74127605
>has no respect for his hands
>>74130570
Degenerate
whats wrong with women having sex with multiple partners? are you an idiot? maybe if you stopped obsessing about how many guys a girl fucked maybe your number would be higher?
ITT: insecure beta faggots
>>74130718
underrated
>>74130752
Why
>>74130776
>YOU DONT LET YOUR WIFE HAVE SEX WITH BLACK MEN???
>LIKE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU
>>74126281
Because they have the choice to be. Men are literally the same amount of slutty if not more. And no I don't have a stupid Facebook picture for evidence
>>74130776
This desu
>>74130629
"Prude" girls are just excellent at deception. They are often professionals and will weekend or summer in yacht circles as an escort, essentially. What's frightening is that it's the new norm and that the oldest profession is buttressing a large part of our economy.
Takbir!
You allow your women to roam the streets like bitches in heat, wearing nothing and pol is shocked that somebody fuck them.
Dammit pol, you know women must be kept controlled, barefoot and pregnant. It's the only way that men can gain peace to do what is necessary.
>>74130863
lol you're a massive faggot dude
hahahahahaq
>>74130776
>has to settle for sluts banging half a dozen othe guys
>calls everyone else beta
cool story bro, enjoy those sloppy seconds
>>74130928
Are you autistic?
Serious question
>>74130962
you think i would marry some girl i hookup with after the bar?
you're an idiot let women explore and be promiscous. you think youre going to marry a virgin and they will not be curious about sleeping with other people?
dumbass burger
feminism helps everyone except beta males
Don't forget that hypersluts have created literal biohazards out of their yawning wizard sleeves, killing Roger Ebert, nearly killing Michael Douglas and being the leading growing cancer among white beta males that have been brainwashed into pussy eating.
>>74131089
I never eat bitches out, its gross.
>>74130708
>tfw 25 and have only kissed a girl nothing more
haha at least I have you beat faggot
>>74130776
Soz Chad
>>74131071
>feminism helps everyone except beta males
i fail to see how feminism helps me at all. the fact you need sluts to exist in order to get laid says a lot about you, beta leaf faggot. keep chugging that cum like maple syrup though.
>>74131071
>feminism helps everyone except beta males
Correct, and a more appropriate phrasing is, Feminism works against only beta males.
Feminism gives women the right to not have to depend on ugly beta men, and now they can have as much sex with handsome alphas as they want.
>>74131365
so you are saying an abundance of slutty women to get your dick wet is bad as a young man?
i can't even fathom these threads 2bh sux2bu?
>>74131071
why is it always canadians?
>>74131426
the thing is you don't have to be a super alpha jock type to get laid because of 3rd wave feminism you can literally be a "fuckboy" and what kind of man cares about being "used" for sex like honestly
>more sluts
>more fun
>>74126281
>paying attention to women or involving them in your life in any way whatsoever
>>74131451
getting laid and not getting worked up about some stupid internet articles about how feminism is ruining society?
it must be the fresh air
women in the military exceed the norms.
miles and miles of cock those ladies receive.
mostly voluntary and good for morale.
i love pussy...mmm mmm mmm
I refuse to believe any number lower than 600 for a 30 year old non hideous woman
>>74130708
Do you also hate women?!?
Sounds like MGTOW is right for you!
>>74126554
>>74126281
you guys are complete autists
Women are not men.
Attractive women actually sleep with LESS men. Why? Because they can get and keep high quality men, which is the evolutionary objective of females.
>>74130708
Being past 20 yo and still being a Virgin is Degenerate. You should end it my man.
Anti-slutshaming is just a mildly clever plot to get whore's dating market value to go up by making the average woman's dating market value go down.
Its all just basic dating market economics, and predictably I think this "Slut bubble" is nowhere near close to popping.
>>74131807
Are you fucking stupid? I had a girl who was at least 8/10, and before me she had fucked 12 other guys. Take your bullshit elsewhere.
>>74130629
There are far more sluts than prude girls, considering the dominant theme in western culture for women is to be a slut. They are encouraged to be that way and they are the norm.
>>74131901
Your post is wrong, because it makes the assumption that there is a difference anymore between "average woman" and "slut". There is not.
>>74131427
no im not. pussy is awesome, sluts are tons of fun. eventually when you want to settle down with a good girl, there aren't any. i'd rather not marry some bitch thats had 30 dicks in her. inb4 some anon posts a link to a microchimerism study, or the graph correlating sexual partners to the likelihood of failed marriage.
Not to mention, intimacy is greatly cheapened when its been experienced and shared with so many people.
>>74131985
" considering the dominant theme in western culture for women is to be a slut. They are encouraged to be that way and they are the norm"
lol where did "western culture" promote women to be sluts?
>>74131985
I don't care though, because it gives girls more confidence to fuck...which means more pussy for me.
>>74131941
>implying your anecdotal experience matters
And
>8/10
>implying thats very attractive
Just think about it, a woman can only be impregnated by ohne mane so why would a women with many options not stick with the best that she can get?
>>74131941
12 isn't that much, you fucking autist
When a girl says she has only had sex with one other guy, what do you think the real number since? I'm gonna guess somewhere between 5 and 10
I'm the hermit among my peer "groups" and I'll tell you what I see when I check in on my friends.
1) girls basically hone in on these friend groups and over the course of maybe 5 years wind up fucking everyone in them.
2) these friends who wonder why I don't call them more often range from stoner and or videogamer losers to working class literal cucks raising kids who aren't theirs and making excuses/normalizing the behavior of their shitty women.
3) zero problem with race mixing whatsoever
4) among the most 'normal' of my friends it usually is something like this a) 7/10 man with a 5/10 b) woman who dominates the relationship AND c) it isn't kids they raise together; but dogs or cats.
Hatred is really the only thing keeping me from ending it all. I'm living for spite sake.
>>74131899
>calling purity degenerate
>hurr durr I women sex
Everyone can go to hooker and get it over with. But that's even more depressing
>>74132299
>7/10 man
>fag
>>74126281
Who cares. In 20 years we'll be able to genetically engeneer superior men and grow them. Women will no longer b needed and niggers shitskins fags and trannies will have no purpose and will be exterminated and replaced.
Let them have their fun while it lasts.
>>74132430
>Getting a hooker
Everybody knows that doesn't count.
>>74132093
The Internet. Popular mass media. Pro-slut websites. People like you. Peer pressure.
Let me guess, you think we live in a "prude society" that "hates women for having sex", and you think you are rebelling against said society by being a slut?
If you are unaware of how western culture promotes women being sluts, then I know you are just baiting.
>>74132105
The thing that bothers me the most at this point is how people still insist that guys like me need to respect those women - and that guys like me need to eventually marry them when they've had their fun.
Do you respect them or do you want to marry them? I doubt it.
>>74132046
My argument is that that is the goal of anti-slut shaming. To eliminate that difference in cultural, where even if a "slut" and an "average woman" have the same body count, the "average woman" would be more conscious of it, and less willing to put her sexual history into the public sphere. Anti slut shaming wants to eliminate this last barrier between woman and whore
>>74132461
A man who keeps good shape and has a skill is a 7 by my estimation. And given how women don't settle for their own rating. yeah...7 is a great estimation. But I can smell your estrogen and taint-funk from here so I get where you are coming from.
>>74132546
So a hooker is a no-no but fucking a drunk and drugged whore in the club/pub is yes. Check your fucking priorities cunt. For one you pay in cash and she won't have any stds and you sex-sex very much for another you pay in drinks for a chance
>>74126281
> Why have western women become such sluts?
Because of the breakdown of the family unit and traditional Christian values in the West. All of this is the direct result of allowing women the right to vote, along with media brainwashing, and promoting base animal hedonism above what is good for a functioning society.
This is why we can't have nice things.
> How many guys do you think the average girl has slept with by the time she's 30?
Not as many as you'd think. One in three generation Y / Millenials are virgins.
http://time.com/3852117/millennials-sex-parents-boomers/
This is a silent genocide. Society will inevitably collapse without immigration, society will inevitably collapse with immigration. Society will inevitably collapse.
> What does this mean for western men and future political policies?
War and death. Mass famine.
Enjoy the fall of Rome, /pol/.
>>74132574
Nope, it's literally impossible for me to have any respect for sluts even if i'm fucking them
Like they say, a keyhole that can be unlocked by any key is a shitty keyhole
But a key that can open a lot of keyholes is a master key
I think this is a good analogy
>>74132768
drugged up whore in the club is your words not mine
>>74128185
>what does it mean for the future
The white man will develop the means to grow near perfect men. sex will become unnecessary and they will all be born asexual and women will be useless.
Without being tied to things like dating and raising a family the white race can dedicate itself to exploring the galaxy and furthering technology. We will beat the shitskins in birthrates as we will live longer and or able to produce the numbers we need at the literal push of a button
The master Aryan race will become a reality through science and genetic engineering.
>>74132461
You should check on the kitchen, maybe mommy finished baking cookies
>>74132898
This thread is literally about women fucking up to a 100 men. Where do all 'normal' women hang out ?
>>74132932
i bake my own cookies dirty abo
>>74131899
What if he's gay? Should he still fuck then?
It's better to be a lifelong virgin than to fuck your same gender
>>74127605
Best post ITT
>>74130494
Beef flaps have nothing to do with how many men a woman's slept with. I’m a virgin and mine are medium.
>>74130249
>>74128741
>>74128623
>>74128606
>>74126554
Holy fuck do you stormfags even read statistics or just follow the meme info?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/03/AR2011030302877.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/sexual-health-and-advice/8958520/Average-man-has-9-sexual-partners-in-lifetime-women-have-4.html
>>74132924
> Genetic Engineering
We aren't going to make it to that far. Society will collapse before GE becomes a reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z760XNy4VM
>>74133044
On a campus, at work, at the store? Its just as easy to meet girls at those places. Well I guess not for you
>>74130776
There's a lot wrong with it, and science and biology has answers.
Women who have more sexual partners and begin having sex at earlier ages are more likely to be depressed and have less stable marriages, among other things.
This can be accredited to oxytocin. This is a naturally occurring brain neurotransmitter that is released by women during sexual intercourse with another man. Its responsibility is to instill trust, and bonding with the other man. This is basically a biological answer to "should humans have more than one sexual partner?"
This is because, much like any other neurotransmitter, if the brain experiences too much of it, the body is going to regulate the amount that is made.
This leads to women running around, fucking more and more, because they're losing the ability to bond with another man, and desiring the rush from someone new to fuck and feel special with. It's literally chasing a high.
Then they get depressed because.. "Why can't I find a man to settle down with?" Or "Why can't I stay married?" The enabling of going out, fucking strangers and having young wild fun is potentially damaging the amount of women available for a trustworthy, stable and happy marriage. You're a beta faggot because you'd lower your standards to fuck a girl without caring about how many partners she's had just to say you've fucked them. This mindset is literally only alright if you want to live a life of fucking someone new every week, and not having a stable family with a loving wife and kid(s). Sounds pretty pathetic to me, my man.
>>74133055
>N-no you, *insert insult*
Let me know when you have something productive to say, bud
>>74126281
Western women have become entrenched in the lie that there is always something better than what they already have.
They get a boyfriend who pays his rent on time, has a job, put himself through college, and treats them well? They should have a guy who owned a house by 20 and makes twice what their father did. They get that? They should have a guy who owns a mansion.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
I've watched it happen to my friends and I've been through it over and over again. Women constantly move their goalposts because that's what western media tells them to do. They have lost the idea that they should be loyal to a man who wants to spend his life with them and have stuck on the idea that they should always have more more more.
Over the next decade, as my generation weeds through it's 40s with higher divorce and single motherhood ever seen before and more men checking out, you're going to see interesting changes.
>>74130776
You're the beta one here, you keep defending these women who make terrible choices in life for no reason
>>74133181
>A woman denying she is a slut and trying to convince guys that women in general are pure
Oh boy, I've never seen that before!
>>74133316
Men already are checking out, but the Internet - including /pol/ - is doing whatever it can to socially shame men into submitting to women again.
>>74133396
how is having fun in life a terrible choice
go outside you troll
>>74133231
Campus = rape
At work = I can somewhat agree
Store = dream on
> easy sex
There is no '''''easy''''' way to hook someone up these days. You pay drinks, be nice, you fuck. But what's the difference between that and getting a prostitute. But I mean I'm wrong, I don't live in 90s after all and I'm not a 10/10 like yourself dear sir
>>74133181
makes little sense to look at women of every age group, things have changed heavily only relatively recently
besides, the median is a better statistic here, the mean is skewed by ultra chads who fuck tons of women
>>74133619
>Campus = rape
Please consider suicide if you believe this feminist propaganda...
>>74126281
>>74126281
Women can slut around because men gave them birth control.
Take it away and women have to keep their legs shut or they'll be popping children out like Muslims
>>74128741
Very illuminating... and depressing article. The red pill is hard to swallow because I'm in a position where I can have all that meaningless sex. But... it's so fucking disgusting.
>>74133316
This. Just go to school or get a killer job and don't worry about settling down until your 30.
Then go pick up some 20 year old qt from somewhere marry that one.
>>74133879
>This. Just go to school or get a killer job and don't worry about settling down until your 30.
Then go pick up some 20 year old qt from somewhere marry that one.
this guy knows whatsup
>>74133736
Hillarious how you disregard the rest of my post for a meme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnAa7rqtBM
>>74132769
>One in three generation Y / Millenials are virgins.
and 90% of those are guys, the other 10% are hideous women
>>74131941
>and before me she had fucked 12 other guys
And most men have slept with at least 12 women, anon. It's not restricted to one gender. You're the abnormal one
Women have always sized up. Only 20% of men that ever lived passed on their gene, 80% of women have. Pic related, they look at genetic differences in the Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA.
Women have it easier. The most successful of guys strike out 90% of the time, and the average guy does 99% of the time.
Get. The fuck. Over it.
Civilization may collapse, it probably won't. We all hunch over our phones and computers and post about the Demise of Western civilization on Chinese cartoon websites, and we may be right. We also vent our frustrations over women, which we also may be right on.
Be realistic. There's nothing you can fucking do about it. Society will change, you can't do anything about it.
All you can do is better yourself, don't put pussy on a pedestal, and fuck random bitches. Or, better yourself, find more conservative girls and really get to know them to start a family. You're going to strike out 90% best case scenario, it's a numbers game. Just better yourself and fucking put yourself out there and make the most of whatever situation you find yourself in.
You can't change ANY of the factors that's being discussed in this thread. Jews may control the world and this may be a ploy by them. The "wrong" side may have won WWII. This hookup culture may fuck up the average family in the next 30 years.
Who gives a fuck. Make the most of it and try your best. You can either do that or get fat shitposting on a Chinese image board about how much women suck. Your choice.
>>74134020
Campus is one of the best places to meet cute girls.
>>74133794
Gross that's so fuckng gross
>>74134261
wtf happened in the late mesolithic?
>>74134261
hitler was a beta autist and he changed plenty of your factors fuck you
we may have the next hitler among us as we speak
sieg heil
>>74126866
Why is being able to control every other single biological impulse seen as "civilized" but in today's society your sexuality is not treated the same?
>>74134261
Here is what bothers me at this point:
>Beta effeminate dudebros, sluts and feminists think it's so easy and so great to be a man in western society when it isn't. It's actually very very hard
>It bothers me that people keep telling me women are pure when I know women are not
>It bothers me that the culture has become so degenerate and so anti-male
And hey, I could look past the degeneracy and just live my own life, but it still bothers me that I am lied to so often. I fucking wish being a man was as easy as sluts, feminists and beta effeminate dudebros said it was. That would be great. But it isn't like that and you know it.
Time has aided me in getting over many things and truly feeling more at ease with life. Maybe time will be on my side with this too, who knows.
But I also feel like other guys, especially the younger ones, should know the truth about women. They are all being lied to.
>>74134480
feminism
>>74131188
IT'S SOME THING
>>74134435
It's a study where at one point, women out numbered men by like 17 to 1 lol. It's what that article was originally posted by: https://psmag.com/8-000-years-ago-17-women-reproduced-for-every-one-man-6d41445ae73d#.iwapf579i
ITT virgins who blame women for their autism
>>74134723
>hundreds of millions of Western women in the age of the internet
>a large number are good people
>omg why can't I find a woman ;_; they're all sluts
>>74134723
Gotta try harder than that to bait, fuckboi
>>74128741
>Half of their sexual encounters just "don't count." If the sex wasn't very good, or it didn't last long enough, or if she was kind of drunk at the time, or if it was a pity lay... those don't add to your number.
this tbhbbq. I was talking with some friends about how many people each of us had sex with and when I said my number people were like "wow that's so many"
but then later the girls opened up that they had actually had sex with way more people they just chose not to count
we can agree that 99%(+) of all living things have a biological imperative to produce and look after offspring, humans that lack this desire are essentially (from a Darwinian point of view) flawed and naturally will be eliminated from the gene pool (barring anomalous circumstance). A human's life and capacity for generating resources is limited. Humans, like all mammals are most concerned with ensuring the best possible scenario for their genetic offspring (lions will kill all the cubs in a pride when they take over, and all cubs born for a certain period of time). All men therefor have biologically evolved a fear that their resources (which are limited) will be used to support the genetics of other men(One could even argue that this fear is our most powerful one). Women by definition know when their genes have been passed on, men don't. Men have evolved to avoid slutty women because SLUTS LITERALLY POSE AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO MEN.
Beta-fags who don't care about being cucked end up having their genes not passed on, and instead support the offspring of men that fuck loads of women.
So basically saying men shouldn't slut shame women is like saying "ignore hundreds of millions of years of evolutionary programming because we invented DNA testing 60 tears ago". If 1 man sleeps with 10 women and they all get pregnant, everyone wins. If 1 woman sleeps with 10 men and gets pregnant, only 1 man wins. Essentially there exists an evolutionary "sexual arms race" between men and women. As women become sluttier to try and siphon resources from more men, men likewise evolve to be more alert to slutty women to avoid them being cucked. Also, like it or not, men will not view or value a promiscuous women the same. EVER. Would you honestly expect a man to view a woman who has had 300 sexual partners the same as a woman who has had 0? If so you are insane. Just the same as a car with 100,000 miles will never been equal to the same car with 0 miles.
>>74134549
I agree with your points. Everything you said bothers me too.
Then I look at the people who say life is easier for men.
Numale Sports management degrees at NYU
Gender studies semi hot chick's who will become fat as fuck past 30
Journalism majors who are overweight and are social media Addicts.
The list goes on. They don't add anything to society, and I laugh at their failures. Their opinions being in opposition to me means I'm doing things right.
I have hobbies and life goals and a positive outlook, with a real fucking degree and financial security. That's all I can control, and I'm happy with it. They say I'm privileged, I don't give a fuck because I'm making the most of my life instead of bringing down others.
It's about outlook anon. Vent when it's shitty, enjoy the world the rest of the time. Try not to let it bother you.
>>74134665
fug that's pretty neat stuff
>>74134261
Good post.
But one important thing: people here aren't just constantly discussing these kinds for no reason.
In the current social environment, even on the internet, there is really no where else to communicate about these kinds of things. You could enjoy our western media and mainstream discourse for years and come away with a completely fake view of the way the world works. So rather than viewing posts and saying, "stop complaining and start working", you should acknowledge that without /pol/ and a couple other places there would be ZERO discourse on these extremely important issues.
>>74135889
That's what leftists want though. Controlling language is incredibly effective - that's why they constantly try to either "take back" words, or ban them from the discourse altogether.
The guy you replied to seems to be the most down to earth in this entire thread though. I am very aware that things will go on with or without me, I'm just still bothered by a few key things, and only time can help me with that.
I wonder how boys are going to end up after growing up in all this degeneracy and emasculation. But we'll just have to wait and see. It never should have been like this. But here we are.
>>74126281
I will never fuck a woman over 23 again
>>74133848
That pic. Beautiful.
>>74135889
Oh I 100% agree. It's so strange the only way to hear these conversations is on a neo nazi Chinese cartoon board. We do live in a weirdly fucked social society.
Pol remains the best place to discuss these issues logically and interestingly. I just feel sympathic towards a lot of autists that post and blame others on their women problem, letting it affect their lives personally.
I don't normally post that kind of stuff as the post you referenced, but if I can help one anon take control of their life then it's worth it. I agree these conversations should happen, just don't let it affect NEGATIVELY your real life interactions. IMO you can take all these depressing facts and use them to make your outlook more positive
>>74136543
You'll end up great anon, better than most of the autists in this thread by a mile. Honestly your care of the next generation is more admiral than me. Just put that to use on a micro scale: volunteer at boy scout troops, be a mentor and part of a small suburban troop. IMO the BSA is the best way to raise a true nondegenerate male who isn't brainwashed by the PC culture to emasculated himself.
Help out some people you know on a micro scale, it's a way to make a positive difference.
>>74126554
>Somewhere in the hundreds.
>>74133181
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Washington post? The telegraph? Women underestimate and since all of those studies are based on self reported figures they too are underestimates. BTW labial hypertrophy can result from irritation of the labia minora which often occurs through sex. BTFO
>>74137989
It's true though. He asked a question and I answered. I'm white.
Elliot Rodger's problem was that he cared too much about women and not enough about himself. But oh well. Even 4chan automatically favors women in all this, so I'm used to replies like yours now.
>>74126281
This is a huge problem for me. I'm 27 and just getting out of a 5 year relationship. I'm trying to start dating again but most women my age are just complete sluts. Younger women are all degenerate whores that are full of tattoos and piercings. Where have all the pure women gone?
I feel like I may be autistic so I just don't even try to talk to girls. I don't want to waste their time. At least I get to keep all my money I guess. Too bad I will miss out on what makes a human a human.
>>74138101
Which could be from masturbation. Mine is.
>>74140423
>>74133181
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-ZmJuQqT9Q
>>74126281
Just being conservative: One guy per year since she was 18; or 12 guys.
Being realistic: Like 40 different guys minimum. I'd estimate at LEAST 1 new guy every 3 months, sometimes more than one guy at the same time.
>>74133443
I’m on 4chan, I’m an ugly monkey, I'll die a virgin.
20 year old woman I've only slept with my boyfriend (only after 6 months of dating) and I still shame my boyfriend for casual sex he had partaken in prior to our relationship.
>>74141259
just show us your tits
>>74141331
Just google 'tits' if you're that curious about what breasts look like.
>>74141259
every time a straya shitposts a German gets tanned
>>74140702
Very funny, but not an argument. And mine thankfully looks much more like the one on the right on 0:44. Just a little thicker. Would I still be considered a roastie?
>>74141400
>>74137715
I do find it unjust how guys criticize women so rarely, yet when we do, we're called autists.
Yet women whining 24/7 "HURRR DURR WHERE ARE THE REAL MEN HURRRRR" is considered empowering.
It baffles me that women these days NEVER stop and think that maybe they can't find a "good guy" and a "real man" because they are vapid sluts and they are the problem. This will bother me for some time to come, the stupidity of women and modern western culture.
>>74128507
and women now a days dont have them? Sure maybe not AS much, but they sure as fuck are catching up.
>>74141900
They're able to act like entitled twats in large part because they have a commodity every man is biologically programmed to desire.
There's no actual punishment for any of their behaviour because no matter what they say, think, or do, some guy will want to stick his dick in them. Men would have to, altogether, call these women out and ostracize them for shitty behaviour and it simply isn't possible. There's too many who just won't go against their biological programming.
You'd have to institutionalize it and punish offenders via laws. Like what our family/marriage laws did 50 years ago, and what they don't do now.
>>74142246
>Men would have to, altogether, call these women out and ostracize them for shitty behaviour and it simply isn't possible. There's too many who just won't go against their biological programming.
>You'd have to institutionalize it and punish offenders via laws. Like what our family/marriage laws did 50 years ago, and what they don't do now.
It wasn't always THIS bad. I doubt we can reverse the damage at this point. Your explanation is spot on, my solution would be something along the lines of what you suggested. But could we even do that? I highly doubt it.
If guys like me can exist, and if men once universally (in a sense) stood up to women, it is indeed possible to do it again. But, perhaps too much damage has been done at this point.
Honestly I've gotten to the point where sex is meaningless to me. I mean of course it feels amazing but I cant stand most women in general. When ever I talk to a guy, usually they're interesting and have opinions on things that matter, but when I talk to a woman they just stand there and let me lead the conversation, which I have no interest in so it stagnates.
Broke up with GF maybe 2 months ago and since then, I dont feel like getting another girl. I got 2 prospects but still my dick says yes, but my mind has done something it hasnt done before. It says no to my dick and my dick listens. I'm just tired of women being black holes that suck in money, time and attention while you have to baby sit them to make sure that they dont get upset over the slightest thing.
When ever I see a beautiful woman now, I imagine how ugly her personality is and how that she probably has had 30 dicks in her by the age of 20 and how full of herself she probably is and the sad part is, Im fucking right most of the time.
I've met maybe 2 women in my life that are either smart (and even then its just barely above average by mens standards if you exclude blacks) or interesting.
Every single other one is into
>Celebrety drama
>who is fucking who
>Who is marrying who
>making fun of others
>what kind of car my perfect husband would drive
Why the fuck cant they see past their own nose? I guess its the constant stream of chads and beta orbiters that follow them around even if they're ugly. Ugly girl = still can get 10 dicks in 1 week Ugly guy = gets 1 vagina ever 6 years (Maybe more if hes SUPER rich and charismatic)
>>74130862
The real question is why is a higher number better? Dont be a hypocrite. You are part of the problem.
>>74134299
*cute whores
>>74127490
You're aware that as soon as you question someone's masculinity/sexuality in response to their argument, you've lost, right?
>>74126281
Top 10% men get 90% women.
Law of natural selection. If you are dissatisfied then rape like me.
>>74128599
Serb-bro I right.
Masculinity attracts feminity, to attract and keep the women you want, be the man she needs you to be.
Of you're red pill, your wife will be too.
>>74131188
24 haven't kissed anyone. Not even my mum.
>>74142965
>The real question is why is a higher number better? Dont be a hypocrite. You are part of the problem.
Even if I agree on him being part of the problem, men and women aren't equal and the former shouldn't bow to any standards imposed by women. We're the ones who impose standards, not them. And that's how it was usually, men would fuck other lower women like prostitutes and their wife.
Think like a winner not like a loser, you are a male, we make the rules and enforce them.
>>74142965
A soldier is judged by how many forts he has taken. A fort is judged by how many soldiers it has repelled.
>>74143385
>POO IN LOO
>>74126281
>in the whole of history, men always kept mistressess
payback is a bitch isn't it
>>74126664
That makes no sense. You must be a woman.
>>74143457
Doesnt add up. There are rules that we all abide by and saying this means that they arent equally enforced.
If a man kills a person, then he is a criminal.
If a woman kills a person then she is also a criminal.
Sex is no different. He can claim that he is proud of the number because hes a man-whore but not as a moral high ground to compare himself to others. Most men want to be man-whores. I made a post >>74142811 and have chosen to abstain from sex because I dont want to increase my count higher than it already is.
I can see how having many partners affects me and dont want it to get in the way of finding a nice woman to settle down with. I know this is probably a temporary goal of avoiding pussy but any gap in the number of women I've fucked would be better than constantly going through partners.
Maybe I'm just not looking too far ahead into my own feelings about this. Plus I am probably projecting my own shame onto him.
>>74127129
this post is such bs
being redpilled about women isnt just "durr they suck"
>>74143477
Literally the dumbest argument ever. Its the same as "A master key can open all locks but a lock cant be opened by any key." bullshit that men spout to cover up their man-whorish ways.
Come up with a better argument than a retarded analogy.
>A SHARK CAN BITE MANY PEOPLE BUT A PERSON CAN BE EATEN BY A SHARK!
>A CHILD CAN RUN FAST BUT THE GRASS CANNOT
>FEAR MAKES A MAN WEAK BUT MAKES A MAN STRONG
>CHEESE IS FULL OF HOLES BUT THE HOLES ARENT FULL OF CHEESE
>>74144131
You have yet to actually prove why the analogy doesn't work.
>>74144131
You have yet to prove why it does.
>>74143385
I wonder why......
>>74143973
>Doesnt add up. There are rules that we all abide by and saying this means that they arent equally enforced.
>If a man kills a person, then he is a criminal.
>If a woman kills a person then she is also a criminal.
do not make a confusion between law and morals
by itself, it could be perfectly possible to devise a system where the two crimes aren't equal and one is worse than the other
sex is extremely different since sexuality in humans is far from symmetric, we are a sexualized species with two well defined sexes and roles associated with them, it's hardly the same ground, men are the seekers and competitors, women are the receivers, sperm is cheap and highly available for multiple women, uteruses are costly(in time and resources) and are highly exclusive(one at a time for almost a year, thus men fighting over it)
>>74144131
It takes a 1000x more effort for a woman to reproduce at bare minimum
Therefore its 1000x more meaningful when a woman has sex
>>74143521
You are implying that I should have to pay for whatever injustices were done by men whom I have never even met. That isn't payback. It would only be payback if i was the one keeping mistresses. I've never done that, you stupid cunt.
>>74126281
My ex-girlfriend has been sexually involved with 10 guys, not all coitus but it counts (probably a few more desu)
Took me about a month to fully break it off. I couldn't stand the fact she had been with so many. She was even with a nigger once, not a full-out ghetto nigger, but a nigger nevertheless. Feels so fucking good to be rid of that shit.
>>74126281
>How many guys do you think the average attractive girl has slept with by the time she's 30?
three digits easily
>>74143521
I'm 21, I've fucked over 30 girls. I'm not ashamed of it in any way and I intend to marry the right one once I'll find her.
Why would I mind if my gf had the same bodycount ?
>>74144805
youre gonna get raped
>>74144805
>Why would I mind if my gf had the same bodycount ?
>>74144399
Morals and laws are related though. to claim they arent is a far stretch of the imagination. I do agree that people are sexualized (men / woman) and this should be enough for an different system of judgment for the two.
So if a man cheats on his woman does this make him a cheater? or does it mean that he is at no fault.
If a woman cheats shes labeled a cheater and even whore at times.
or do you also advocate for polygamy because men can impregnate multiple people with little effort.
I know its a dumb argument, but what about rape then?
why dont we start judging men on how many people they raped / killed instead because thats a sexual bias towards men.
>>74144961
>http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/08/tinder-hook-up-culture-end-of-dating
I honestly don't believe in marriage in today's world. I intend to marry, have children and probably divorce after a while. Marriage was good back when people died at 45 from coal smokes.
>>74145133
>>74144961
Nevermind the link Swedebro, my mistake
>>74126281
The average hot girl is probably a dumbfuck that can't keep a good guy around so probably 30 or higher. Smart hot girls will keep the number low because they are looking for a mate, not 30 mins of pleasure with a random dude.
Hot guys, no matter smart or stupid can get away with fucking as many girls as they like for the most part.
The problem is that smart ugly men will get 0 while a smart or even dumb ugly girl can still get some guy to fuck them usually, it's just the hole that matters to some men. The only women that can't get a man have too high standards. Men tend to be shit out of luck if they didn't win the genetic lottery for looks or smarts.
>>74145046
My point was to deny the fundamentally controversial premise that men and women ought to be judged by the same standards, which is at the bottom of the old double standard attack.
Once we can agree this isn't indeed a good premise then to decide what is moral or not is another issue indeed.
I wouldn't see anything wrong with male polygamy if it wasn't fundamentally so exclusive for other men, there's always roughly 50% of both men and women so polygamy I think only creates similar problems to our sexually liberated society.
Rape seen as a crime isn't a feature of modern thought, by raping a woman you aren't just damaging the woman herself but also her relatives, the male ones as well, so its crime status is a non issue here.
Fundamentally, men should get women in a more controlled and distributed way and rule over their women, but also with fundamental duties like protecting them and providing for them. Note that this doesn't necessarily require the state, just a strong culture like in older Europe that puts a strong emphasis on the nuclear family as the fundamental piece of our society and in ways to ensure that this fundamental structure persists instead of fading away like it's happening nowadays.
>>74144131
Because most women are not actively trying to have sex, spending their money, driving their vehicles etc. They may make themselves available but guys are still initiating 90% of everything.
If a 5/10 Women were to stand up in the middle of a room of 50 people and ask who's coming home with her, shes getting fucked. The amount of effort a 5/10 man has to put forth to get sex is not the same.
>>74126281
Water takes the shape of the container it fills.
http://www.rooshv.com/the-true-nature-of-women
http://www.rooshv.com/the-decline-of-american-women
http://www.rooshv.com/the-number-one-corrupter-of-women
http://www.rooshv.com/the-decimation-of-western-women-is-complete
http://www.rooshv.com/42-things-wrong-with-american-women
http://www.rooshv.com/the-end-game-of-feminism
http://www.rooshv.com/cultural-collapse-theory
>>74126281
>Why have western women become such sluts?
The invention of the birth control pill.
>>74130776
Only a desperate beta would happily kiss a woman who's had 20 other cocks in her mouth.
Have some self-respect and stop being so desperate to get your dick wet.
>>74131514
I thought that Canada didn't have niggers.
>>74134209
Are you a nigger?
>>74134011
Yep, I did that. Happy house wife who reads pol and hates what women have do to her once glorious sex.
>>74134723
Virginity and chastity are virtues you fucking cuck.
If you kiss a woman who's had another guy's cock in her mouth, that makes you a beta cuck.
>>74145876
ok good point here. Im off to sleep now. just so you know, I cant refute your point.
>>74138399
>Where have all the pure women gone?
The end goal of feminism is to make all women into fat pierced tatted masculine sluts with blue hair.
To find "pure" women you have to look outside America, more rural, more religious, to places where American media has penetrated less.
I know a girl who will fool around with 3-4 different guys before deciding to date one for like a month and then dumping him. She says "I don't want to just settle". And on some level I get that. What happens if you settle and then run into something better? But really it's a self destructive mentality. If you find yourself never "settling" then you will find yourself settling for nobody.
Can I say as a guy with an ok-respectable level of women I've slept with.
I've slept with 32 women, I'm 22 years old. At 22 I've finally found 'the one' who is, to me, a solid 10/10. Amazing booty, amazing face, happy to marry, etc.
But there's an issue. About 9 months into the relationship I'm just burnt out of the sex. I've experienced it all plenty of times with other women, there's nothing exciting. But I'm only the 3rd guy she's slept with. So she finds sex something still very new, very erotic, etc. She gets so much more enjoyment out of it than me. There's plenty of things she hasn't seen or done. I sit here, as a male, wishing I hadn't slept with so many women, that the feeling of sex was still as enjoyable as it was when I was 17-18. But now it's routine. It's boring.
I imagine this swings both ways towards women also.
>>74144131
When guys have sex, they aren't being filled with semen every time, unless they're a degenerate bottom faggot.
Would you rather lick a doorknob that's been opened by 1,000 people or a brand new doorknob?
Women who have had sex with scores of men are literally damaged goods.
The more sexual partners a man has had, the greater his value in the eyes of women, because women flock to what is popular, he's been preselected, women let other women do the thinking for them. Think Wilt Chamberlain, who was alleged to have sex with 20,000 women in his lifetime. Women love popular men. Women love players. Women love "closers." It takes real effort to sleep with 20,000 women.
The more sexual partners a woman has, the lower her value in the eyes of men, because her beauty was the only thing that mattered in the first place, popularity of women means nothing to men. And a woman who's received more sexual partners is more likely to have disease, pregnancies, children, a busted up body, more likely to cheat, less likely to be happy, etc. Think of a woman who has had sex with 20,000 men. Only the most desperate man in the world would get within 10-feet of that. And it takes no effort at all. She merely has to lay on her back.
>>74147476
Some of the biggest skanks I've seen on Facebook all believe they are princesses.
So these sluts all have this princess mentality, while still thinking that "the grass is always greener" (because comparing yourself to others on social media is so easy).
These women think they "deserve" the very best just for being who they are, without putting any effort in.
Modern women think they should be able to be actual whores like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman, and then one day Richard Gere will come along and they'll live happily ever after.
The sad thing is that there are still men who will submit to marrying single moms and being fathers to children who are not their own, because that means that have "manned up" by trying to fix her poor decision making in the past.
>>74147587
>I sit here, as a male, wishing I hadn't slept with so many women
You made your bed. Now sleep in it.
You're bored with a 10/10 who is The One.
>/pol/ expects guys to have lots of sex
>but also expects all women to stay virgins
>>74149790
No.
Chastity is a virtue.
Virginity is a virtue.
If you've ever used "virgin" as an insult, you're part of the problem.
The true measure of a man isn't how much sex he's had. It's how many grandchildren he has, and how successful they are.
>>74126281
Not that it's an issue in my country, but I can say that your men are to blame too.
Thinking that it is acceptable for a man to sleep around but not for woman to do so is kinda hypocritical. Only wish for a virgin wife if you are a virgin yourself.
>>74146335
But how would you know?
You can never be certain
Unless you get your grandmother to perform the ol hymen check how can I be sure a girl is a virgin
How can you know if she's had a 10 nigger gang bang
>>74126281
30 guys is a low number
>>74149965
Am I still a virgin if I thump the bible as hard as you do?
>>74150836
Lets be honest Pajeet is right...
>>74150901
How religious is she? How long has she had a smartphone?
STDs are an obvious indicator of previous sexual partners.
Different people also have different microbiomes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchimerism
>Microchimerism (abbreviated Mc) is the presence of a small number of cells that originate from another individual and are therefore genetically distinct from the cells of the host individual.
>>74126281
I knew a 14 year old girl that slept with 29 guys in one year. Got an STD or two from it also.
>>74150981
I'm not a Bible thumper, I'm not even Christian.
But Christian Bible thumpers are more likely to be virgins.
People get all hung up on the true/false nature of religion, while ignoring the actual effects it has. Religion is a useful lie. Religion is useful in getting woman to overcome their natural instinct to be hypergamous sluts, and value monogamy, which creates a more stable environment to successfully raise children in.
If you have no interested in ever having children, you have no stake in the future of humanity, and you might as well start sticking your dick up guys' assholes if all you're looking for is warm holes.
>>74151056
What does religion have to do with anything I went to Catholic high school and the girls most modestly dressed at church on Sunday were the ones banging half the football team
>>74151289
>What does religion have to do with anything
Because unlike Godless liberal secular society, religion is nearly the only environment where things like chastity or celibacy is still considered a virtue.
That doesn't mean that every person raised in a religion is necessarily a virgin, or that people raised religious don't have sex, but the chances of finding a virgin are far higher if the girl was raised religious, than if she was raised by two atheist lesbian feminists.
If someone is disgusted with all the sluts roaming around who would make terrible mothers, they have to look at the environments where finding a virgin is more likely, since women are highly conformist creatures shaped by the culture around them.
You could also argue that high school contributes to sluttery and competition between girls (and where they may be exposed to all kinds of different people with different value systems), so a religious girl who is homeschooled may be even more likely to be virgin.
Again, this is a matter of probabilities. Chances are, odds are, if a man is looking to marry a virgin, he has to look at rural, religious communities.
>>74151056
>Microchimerism
Isn't it a bit unethical to run lab tests on her just to make sure she's a virgin?
>>74151670
You could ask her. Isn't it unethical to lie?
Isn't it unethical to have premarital sex?
>>74151670
How it's going on in your country?
Do you have a cute loli waifu from arranged marriage or something?
>>74143063
t. takes it in the pooper
>>74126281
>become
they always were
it's the men who have become faggots
the first mistake was giving women voting rights
>>74151908
Also, the following are all instances of premarital sex:
All rape (except marital rape)
Bastard children born to single mothers
Sex trafficking
Child molestation
Child sex abuse
Child sex trafficking
Prostitution
Hardcore porn
The contraction of most STDs
ive had sex with <10 girls. basically no casual sex (3 dates minimum before banging). same with my GF. we're both 5 generation californians: the difference is that my GF is glorious japanese-american master race.
>>74153114
>californians
>japanese-american
meaning she fucked every nigger San Diego to Everton, and just forgot to tell you.
>>74128599
Based Serb gets it.
>>74126281
Because they can. Fucking 1000 hot guys from 12 to wall age 30 is not frowned upon or sanctioned in any way by society, they will still find a nice beta provider afterwards who they can cuck if a Chad who happens to be interesed in MILF shows up.
>>74134997
Well technically, the 10 women that get pregnant wouldn't win as they don't have support (realistically, I doubt 1 guy can support 10 women and 10 offspring).
>>74154077
They get alpha genes and beta cuck support money
>>74151908
>Isn't it unethical to lie?
Only a dumb girl would lie about her virginity because you are destined to find out during your first intercourse anyway.
>>74152025
>How it's going on in your country?
Promiscuity is not a problem at all here.
> Do you have a cute loli waifu from arranged marriage or something?
I'm not married, nor want to do so right now.
>>74154217
> alpha genes
What does it account to? Most of the history's greatest scientists/explorers/inventors who had kid(s) weren't as good as them.
>>74154396
>bleeding has any evidentiary value
Superpower by 2030
>>74154523
> conforming with kike propaganda
MAJORITY of them bleed. The minority percentage is too small.
>Tfw you walk outside and start cringing at all the degenerate shit you see.
Fucking hell, I used to just ignore everything around me but now I'm actively disgusted.
i dated a girl who said she'd been with at least 40 guys, and she was 25. probably more if we go by the "rule" that they always downplay their numbers.
and she wasn't 10/10, good tits, decent face and body. so.. yeah.
The only people who complain about other people having sex are those who are too ugly to get it for themselves
>>74155145
> i.e. 80% if men who happen to be born non-chad
>>74126281
stop fucking caring
just stop
about everyone else
about the world
about death
about the futility of it all
and just do you
stop seeking state externally
>>74155145
Love this argument because it's just so absolutely vain, literally
>Uhh small dick ur ugly ure dumb :D
The problem is that it's so fucking easy to sleep with women that they essentially objectify themselves and lose all respect.
Sorry but this is all too much teen angst
>>74126281
The average woman has the same number of partners as the average man. Any discrepancies are due to fewer women/men in the population(typically there are slightly fewer men so men may have .1-.3 more partners).
Attractive women don't typically sleep around, men give them attention so there's no need to seek it out. Women do lie though, studies were done where young women were placed on lie detectors and their numbers double from those with face-to-face interviews. See in the link how men have twice the average of women?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/sexual-health-and-advice/8958520/Average-man-has-9-sexual-partners-in-lifetime-women-have-4.html
Also if a girl doesn't marry young it might be reasonable to assume .5-1.0 men per year as an average.
I had a girl offer to fuck me but I told her I wouldn't want it to just be for sex, I'd want to be going out with her. She said she wasn't sure she'd want to be in a relationship. You'll let me fuck you like a dog but you won't wanna be in a relationship? I don't want to be another one of your conquests. That's just saying me the person is not good enough for you except for my dick.
Sex and promiscuity is probably very rewarding and exciting and fun and enjoyable for all the young girls and guys doing it, but I've always wanted someone who's gonna stick around afterwards.
>>74156236
>The average woman has the same number of partners as the average man. Any discrepancies are due to fewer women/men in the population(typically there are slightly fewer men so men may have .1-.3 more partners).
This doesn't account for same sex pairings, so is false. Also, while the "average" of opposite sex partners would be the same since it's always a 1-1 ratio, the mean is not the same. Women have a higher mean number of sexual partners than men. In other words, chad is fucking more women to balance out the "average", so while many average girls have slept with chads, average guys have not slept with as many women usually.
28 years ago I knew a girl who called herself the lollipop lady because of all the blowjobs she'd given guys.
So this not a new thing, western girls have low status.
>>74156745
There's a greater chance than not that you are also a low status male.
>>74156236
>lie detectors
>>74156868
maybe? who gives a fuck, its not about me.
>>74150836
You have a point.
>>74126281
This culture makes it looks like all the cool kids are having sex. I remember being in high school and thinking everyone was doing it, even if most of us were pretending we did. But still, there is was, we wanted to act as if we were doing it. Having sex was a cool thing, not having it meant you were a loser. That's still how most of us operate.
When women caught up, they also caught that exact same mentality. Except that for women, actually having sex is much easier. So they had it. A lot. Massively.
>>74156494
Those questionnaires only look at heterosexuals. They aren't false, it's assumed we're discussing heteros not homos.
>Also, while the "average" of opposite sex partners would be the same since it's always a 1-1 ratio, the mean is not the same. Women have a higher mean number of sexual partners than men.
Mean number IS average number. Please tell me you were referring to median number....otherwise fuck off troll.
>>74150836
You might think that it is the same, but in doing so you make the mistake of assuming that women and men are the same thing.
sexpert here
ask my anything
>>74126281
I've read somewhere that if you've had sex with less than 6 people, you're more exclusive than the Moon
>tfw you can't even get 1
>>74133181
>www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/sexual-health-and-advice/8958520/Average-man-has-9-sexual-partners-in-lifetime-women-have-4.html
Factor in the 'rule of 3' and men have 3 partners and women 12.
women confirmed for lying sluts.
