I want to join Freemasonry.
Am I doing a bad or good thing? From my perspective FM is pretty based, from others it's top goy.
Thoughts?
It used to be pretty based, notsomuch anymore, at least around here.
You could try finding some rosicrucian groups as well
>>74116341
my father is a free mason. he has been grand master of his lodge more than once. it is a bunch of guys renting out an events hall, local business networking, and raising money for local charity.
scariest bunch of 60+ year old men I have even raised money for burn units with.
>>74116792
Elaborate please? Second part is interesting. You mean creepy or badass?
>>74116886
i meant they are just a bunch of a nice old guys who like to have a reason to get out of the house and hang out.
i was being sarcastic using 'scariest'. because they aren't...even though crazy people the world over are obsessed with them.
but what do i know, maybe he is sucking adolescent dick and castrating goats on a spaceship every second thursday of the month.
>>74116886
sorry to be a downer.
would it have been better if i told you that you were entering the pipeline into special knowledge that would elevate you somehow? if so, please don't bother. those psychos as a real pain in the ass.
ps: i hope you like to memorize half hour to an hour long excepts of convoluted and imagery laden text. that is what going through the degrees is all about.
that and clapping up and down rather than side to side in unison. which is, in fact, creepy.
>>74116341
You're wasting your time. Freemasons are a gentleman's club.
>>74117774
Nah dude, I know they are rather boring than scary type of meetings.
No problem to me, I'm also a boring guy to be honest, but I like talking, discussing on philosophical matters. Do they do that?
Also, what's up with the goat joke?
>>74116341
Don't bother unless you're Jewish.
You'll never make it to the top spots. And you will be a pawn.
Modern American masonry is a husband club. It's a place to get away from the wife and drink and bitch about man stuff like your naggy wife entitled kid but mostly your jackass of an idiot boss. They also brag about their good kids. They justify it by raising money for charity.
It's essentially a man only lodge unlike the Eagles lounges or lions clubs that let women in.
>>74117921
yea, there are some interesting guys there. they do some great things for the community and it is a place to forge some strong relationships. they take care of each other in a really endearing way.
i imagine they talk about philosophical matters. overhearing my father talk with one guy about preparing his lecture for an upcoming meaning one time and it was all about a bunch of 18th century enlightenment philosophers.
they are, at least in the northeast united states, rather into their connections to the revolution and enlightenment era secularism in the united kingdom and colonial/revolutionary america.
the goats joke is about the nefarious occult intentions and actions attached to them by conspiracy theorists because of their secretive and influential recent history. they even get named in everything from jfk assassination lore to ufo coverup to illuminati breakaway society theories and more.
>>74118480
Wow. Seems shitty. I thought it's hard tradition and "philosophers club" (not native language)
>free masons dindu nuffin we just a good old boys club
>no you're wrong and here is why you're all luciferean oculists
DOESNT MATTER
DOESNT MATTER
every fucking thread
my dad was a mason for 20 something years.
i know nothing at all about it, and when he died the whole lodge came to the funeral and gave my mom a fairly large amount of money to help out or whatever i guess
>>74118600
So, to sum up, do you recommend joining them? I'm pretty young male, 21 atm.
>>74118764
i would recommend joining them if you have a business or are in your 40s.
>>74117921
>Also, what's up with the goat joke?
Freemasons have been accused of Baphomet worship many times. Considering the ritualistic and secretive nature of Freemason lodges it's probable that some of them harbor occultist covens but they're Secret Societies within a Secret Society.
>>74118935
Oh, ok. Thank you for your time and knowledge.
>>74118978
It's also possible that they have gay orgies in select locations. You can hypothetically make up hypotheticals forever if time is that long hypothetically.
>>74118978
>>74118600
Yeah, I know, but what kind of jokes? I've heard they fool EAs to ride goats naked or something like that before initiation for a joke
>>74118978
it is also because baphomet symbology plays a prominent role in the ritualistic aspect of their club.
they don't believe it represents anything to do with lucifer, because it doesn't.
>>74116341
They are just a really faggy cult for old people. Them controlling the world is just a stupid meme probably perpetuated by masons themselves so the can feel important for a change.
Do any of you know how much are monthly fees?
>>74119289
the controlling the world thing had a lot to do with the majority of the leaders of the american revolution (no small deal back when free masonry was in its zenith - possibly approaching and achieving that truly in the late 19th century) and its prominence in the architecture of the wealthy philanthropists who seemed to enjoy throwing winks and nods to themselves when financing the construction of public institution buildings.
the fact that so many important decision makers were part of the group in our recent history makes the group an obvious target for conspiracy theory and connect-the-dots even if there aren't connections to be made obsessiveness that we all seem to share.
>>74119557
from what i can gather, they seem to have an annual membership fee that goes towards upkeep of the lodge. not sure about taxes because they tend to get listed as a tax exempt orginization...at lest in the states, that is.
but i guess you could divide it by twelve and make it a monthly fee. i just know that collecting an essentially voluntary fee is a pain in the ass and probably happens once a year for the sake of the lodge treasurers sanity.
Any secrets you expect to learn by joining the Freemasons you can learn through diligent research. There are many layers to each symbol, and the Freemasons claim that they will help you peel back these layers to their vast lexicon of symbols as you move through their ranks. They say that there is no degree higher than the 3rd degree except as honorary degrees belonging to particular lodges (like the Scottish Rite's famous 33 degrees) and that once you hit that rank you will learn all of the core secrets of Freemasonry. If you join, you will vow on "pain of death" not to reveal any of the core secrets - ever. That means a brother can commit horrible crimes while hiding behind tricky language and you will be in no position to expose him, even if he does the crime towards you.
Another issue is this: how will you ever know that you've reached the final layer to any symbol? If they tell you that you have done so, how can you confirm that? Could they perhaps be luring you into serving them by promising you hidden knowledge, vetting you by getting you to do crimes or heinous deeds, and then blackmailing you with those very deeds to ensure you never expose their works? Reminds me of a story containing a certain tree and a certain serpent.
However, most people seem to believe they're just a secret club for bored old men and narcissists.
>>74119557
The annual fee for my local lodge is $120. This goes towards the cost of all your ceremonial garbs and towards upkeep of the lodge. The cost varies by lodge.
>>74120062
ignoring the first two paragraphs of robert anton wilson like speculation (although his was entirely tongue in cheek so i'll assume your approaching this in the same vein) i would argue the narcissists part.
they may have narcissistic tendencies with the whole secretive ritualistic stuff and obsession with connecting themselves to the 18th and 19th century history makers, but they at least channel it into some legitimate charitable work. it seems that they spend that majority of their time renting the hall out to wedding receptions and organizing tricky tray type charities and sponsoring other ngo type organizations.
again, they may also be having orgies with infant livestock and playing me the fool, so i don't really know.
>>74116341
Become one and then tell us all their secrets on here.
>>74120062
Another thing: if you want to get close to some authentic Freemasonic knowledge, just go to your fucking local lodge which should have its own small library/museum and ask if you can visit. I spent hours reading some really weird shit in my local lodge and rented a book for 3 weeks (The Builders) without ever bringing up the prospect of becoming a Freemason. Of course, they made it clear that hardly anyone visits the Masonic library which I suppose is why they're cool with just letting me in to read all of their shit. Masonic Bibles, strange occult lore, and histories of Freemasonry are their main items for reading.
>>74120554
you want to know the secrets to free masonry? listen to william cooper's mystery babylon broadcasts.
(just kidding but they are interesting glimpses into the mindset of the northwest and michigan/ohio christian identiy militia groups if you're into counter cultures)
>>74120359
Thank you, that's not that much, thought of a bigger sum
>>74120699
There is no direct adress to my local lodge, only one in Warsaw.
The adress of a lodge is a secret, duh
>>74120699
on this note: go to the large national or state lodges. the national lodges in the uk are pretty great for information gathering - as well as some really spectacular architecture. in the US the lodges have more history, artifacts, and literature to offer the more east you are.
>>74117822
>Freemasons are a gentleman's club
We need more of these. It's no coincidence one of those "gentleman's clubs" was extremely influential in the formation of the USA. When you take power away from these groups, you give power to minority groups.
>>74120969
i can not speak to polish lodges, but in america the location of the lodges are certainly not a secret. they usually have a working kitchen and space to rent out for reception type events.
some even have liquor licenses.
they usually have a large G in a compass prominently displayed on a sign and certainly in the building itself.
>>74121160
I know our biggest lodge WLNP (Grand National Poland Lodge) is in Warsaw, will take a trip to them someday.
Do you know when Masons have "open days"? I mean, I don't want to interrupt sacred day or something. Friday night is good?
>>74120473
Not so much "tounge-in-cheek", but I'm not fully convicted of my points. I'm just illuminating these ominous possibilities in case OP hadn't thought of them himself. They stand reasonable whether you like that or not.
I know they do charitable work. So does Hillary Clinton, George Soros, and anyone else who wants a pleasant public image, so that doesn't really speak to whether or not they're a bunch of evil bastards - but again, that's just a leaning, not a full-blown belief of mine.
I call them narcissists because in my experience the people who seek ancient wisdom do so largely out of a desire to be special or elite. Take that with a grain of salt as well.
I believe they are playing us for fools in more ways than you mentioned. Perhaps no orgies, but their motivations strike me as fairly twisted.
>>74116341
Here they push for gay marriage, immigrants, etc...and they hate the church.
Basically they're leftists. They're also a big part of the reason why our education system is going down the drain.
Are they any different in Poland?
Nah, don't bother. I know a lot of Freemasons where I live and they all say it's just a glorified club for guys. Believe me, with the stock of people they take in nowadays, they don't have any hidden agenda or nefarious plans or whatever.
>>74121160
>in america the location of the lodges are certainly not a secret.
Ours have a big fucking sign out front.
People still act surprised and amazed. Tell me again how you need to be stealthy and hide from the public to keep conspiracies under wraps.
>>74121356
You are speaking of Grand Orient, para-masonic organisation. Atheists, turboleftists. Pretty much always they are connected to biggest leftist parties.
They are NOT Masons.
>>74116341
Memetics is the new free masonry
I have a redneck friend who fishes every moment he can who just joined the masons because his buddy invited him. He says it's pretty chill and you get to learn some esoteric style biblical stuff. That's about it at his echelon.
>>74120969
Atlanta, GA. Nice obelisk, huh?
>>74121353
fair enough. secretive nature invites speculation.
i must say that i agree fully with you on: "I call them narcissists because in my experience the people who seek ancient wisdom do so largely out of a desire to be special or elite. Take that with a grain of salt as well"
it's funny, they are, in my opinion, the exact opposite of the william cooper coin. william cooper existed in a world where he found fellowship and could imply his elitism by 'knowing' secret or secretly held information...it's this very nature of his personality that allowed him to be so easily taken in by, and made a mouth piece to, the likes of john lear.
the free masons do the same thing, but instead of attaching their egos to the secular movement of repulsing oppressive religiosity, cooper and his religious militia movement react to the free masonic reaction AND to those the free masons were reacting to. the free masons just happen to keep a more socially upward membership.
but now i'm rambling about bullshit.
>>74121534
i second this.
french free masons have been bat shit insane since pre revolution france and only delved deeper into blavatsky-esque new ageism during the 20th century.
>>74122077
Lovely!
>>74122077
it looks a little out of place in the drab location, but obelisks usually look neat regardless.
the graveyards around here are full of them to. so?
Btw I have chance to become Mason or part of Student fraternity (non mason).
If you don't know what's up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studentenverbindung
Do you know anything about them?
It's boring. If you become an officer, you have to memorize lines to say during events. The only good thing is that you network with people and that Masons tend to help each other, regardless of which lodge they are from.
>>74116341
>top goy
You are not kidding anyone.
>>74123256
Yeah, I know they are very close to Jews
>>74122332
Ah, now I see your angle.
William Cooper was something of religious fanatic, but I don't think that makes him much different from the Masons at all. Since his info was all on radio and he never released his transcripts, it can be difficult to test the reliability of his sources. However, in his Mystery Babylon series he does spend a whole session relaying his sources in a bibliography. It happens that some people have written down those sources and made them more available via internet. Most of his sources are books published either by Masons, ex-Masons, or those who've been close to Freemasonry or other secret societies like Helena Blavatsky of the Theosophical Society. Point being; if you can look past his obvious biases and stupidities, you can find a lot of valuable information by listening to him. He usually just reads shit verbatim. Well, read.
Unfortunate, what happened to him.
>>74123346
Enjoy your idol worship. Mabye they'll give you a boy or two and tell you their bullshit if they get enough dirt on you.
>tfw Jaden Smith makes a good point
>>74123779
Stay classy /pol/.
My 94 year old grandfather is a mason. He doesn't like to talk about it and he's been one for decades. I wonder what sorta shit he'll say on his death bed.
>>74123591
exactly my point, about him being a religious fanatic but essentially coming from the same desire to 'be more than' as the free masons were.
like all new age occultists, there is obviously good stuff buried in and sometimes baked into the various interpretations of essentially-similar source material. we should always add the, to us, obvious, grain-of-salt warning to any conversation that necessitates referencing blavatsky, or liebenfels, or albert pike even.
about cooper: i often thought at times when he would go into the deep roots of his theories (the assassins and his, in my opinion, bizarre understanding of the gnostics) that it seemed like he read the illuminatus trilogy and jumbled it together with a helping of ufo cultism and fear of an imagined government omnipresence.
and yes, very sad what happened to him. but some of his late 90s, drunk ham radio broadcasts would have me think he had a hell of a lot of paranoia mixing with adrenaline that day and that suicide by cop is a better description.
>>74124094
>ITT: masonic shills
It's like any cult, you need to work your way to the top before they tell you the truth. It's basically Scientology except the aliens are Jews.
Hitler wasn't wrong.
freemasonry is fake and gay
>>74124309
"grandson...don't worry about the funeral costs, the lodge will take care of them, but they just ask for a few moments to do their own private send off. oh, and please feed the vietenamese children hand cuffed to the basement floor in the lodge. the password is 'widows son'."
it will be something exactly like that. the children may be eastern european. if they are shriners it will involve a fez and a tiny car.
>>74116341
From what I can gather, it's just an old men's club that donates to charities and shit. All the kooky rituals are just tradition. Nothing really to worry about, OP.
My grandfather was a 33rd Degree Master Mason, and just went to meetings and banquets and stuff, and donated to charities. He didn't tell my grandmother anything about it, and they'd been married for 50 years.
Anyway, were you invited to join, OP? I thought that was the only way to join, and you had to have two people sponsor you.
>>74116341
Looks comfy to me
>>74124949
this. they are the knights of columbus or the elks lodge with a longer tradition and a moment of having members of historical significance.
i'm pretty sure you need two sponsors. my father is the same as your grandfather and i was told if i ever wanted to join i would have to be sponsored by two people.
again, the lodges vary a lot in the state level, let alone the international level, so this may vary.
>>74124359
Oh he definitely didn't have to die that day. He could have handled all that a lot better than to drive his truck through a vehicular barricade and start shooting backwards after getting out. Suicide by cop is an apt description and most certainly came from his fear and mistrust for government authority.
More importantly though: if he's right about even 1/4 of what he said, then the Masons certainly ought to be looked into by the public. I would hope such an investigation would not further muddle the truth of the matter, but I sleep easy knowing there are ways avoid such mistakes.
why do masons come here and shill?
you're exactly the type we despise
>>74116341
Freemasonry is bad avoid it.
>>74124949
>people who know nothing in denial that their granddad's are pedos
>>74116341
Freemasonry was long ago taken over by jews. It's a Luciferian doctrine that believes evil and wickedness are holy and that the world must be destroyed and rebuilt based upon principles of arrested development. They literally want to kill off all the smart people and make everyone else dumb as fuck consumers who will "live" in their new communist jewtopia, consume, reproduce, and die.
tl;dr - Jews are bad, m'kay
>>74125301
end of the day; if you enjoy counter cultures...you can't ignore the guy, he had a massive sway in the religious militia movement and the slightly less than mainstream ufo culture of the early 90s. still love his rather poetic interpretation of the intro scene to 2001 a space odyssey and his literal interpretation of fantastical descriptions of the historical 'assassins'.
in my opinion, his 'current events' ideas of the late 90s and early 2000s are where the most legitimate tidbits are hidden.
>>74125667
Honestly, if you really give one in today's modern society, you just need to become an hero.
>>74125407
just my understanding of what masons do at a local level based on a lifetime of knowing my father. he is active in the lodge so if he is hiding some nefarious secret, or even relevant influence outside the semi rural county we live in, i would be amazed.
>>74125758
Oh, I do enjoy counter-cultures. Probably because I'm the same sort of narcissist as both the Masons and Will Cooper. However, no amount of batshit lunacy masquerading as occult knowledge will give anyone an edge over anyone else, so even if I'm a stuck-up shit I still feel a drive to filter the information I take in, which is why I can't hail William Cooper as any kind of hero or wise man. Batshit lunacy seems to be the favored dish of Cooper and friends.
>>74126173
here, here. batshit lunacy is the gateway drug into batshit lunacy counter culture history.
i hope you don't think i was idolizing him. the people who actually participate in these groups range from interesting looks at a section of the 'bottom' of a successful culture to a dangerous criminal element grasping at either legitimacy as cover or reacting to a broken interpretation of religion and paranoia media. they are intellectually picking apart a grandiose sounding and importance magnifying source pool in a way which elevates them in their minds at least.
not a useful thing to know, but a fun side hobby.
>>74117921
To become a master mason you have to fuck the community goat. Cannot bring your own either
>>74126173
>>74126979
and may i add: rare is the level headed conversation of this topic. it's always a pain to find someone who you think is interested in the subject just to realize they are actually interested in becoming the subject.
the other 98% of the culture isn't interested in it as a subject and rightfully rolls there eyes.
>>74126979
No you made it clear that Cooper is no hero of yours. He's no hero of mine either, but I think he and many others like him are onto something. Not a small something either, though I'm convinced that people like Cooper will never truly hit the mark because they are either too stupid or too arrogant to weed through oceans of true and false info.
When I want to know the truth, I turn to history books, not occultism. Simply studying history is a lot more disturbing than listening to William Cooper.
>>74116341
It's basically like a union of old people angry at current society.
It's pretty dumb and boring, desu. Unless you're one of those people that actually enjoy traditional group rituals.
They used to actually have some power in society, not for decades.
>>74127375
>and may i add: rare is the level headed conversation of this topic
Yes, I almost forgot: I don't think William Cooper is very popular to the public, so I had the notion in my head that the vast majority of people have no idea who he was, let alone what he believed - in some detail. So what brought you to his ramblings?
>>74116341
Do it, but you are not a full jew so you will be always in an inferior position...
>>74128105
listening to art bell as a kid. i was in eighth grade in 1999/2000 and summer time always meant i got to listen to that. my mother deciding one day to, after raising us as catholic and sending us to catholic school, become a devout pagan and moved states away to start a coven...well...it made me aware of and interested in counter culture and when you mix those two together you can't escape stumbling across cooper.
i would say the chain should be: being open to and surrounded by two very different cultures (friends families all very catholic...going to catholic school all the way through high school...visiting my mother and being part of a pagan circle in the woods where my mother is 'high priestess' and then going to first friday mass at school the next week) and finding art bell and coast to coast. i was always interested in talk radio as my parents played npr 24/7 in the house and cars so that was a natural fit and he would always have john lear on. john lear leads directly into cooper. once you get that far you are either interested in the subject or have been immersed into some aspect of it so cooper doesn't chase you away shaking your head at the huge swaths of esoteric background information. i think being schooled in the subject let me fully take him in when exposed to him.
his ideas on the way in which the limited number of 'movers' look upon and use the rest of us always seemed to be accurate, if not too lost in symbology and religious overtone.
>>74128105
>>74128866
how about yourself?
>>74128355
Fuck off leafy faggot.
>>74118626
He's wrong. Actual Masonic lodges go through their work and plan things out like helping someone, donating to a cause, making a large or lodge-only event that invites other Masons of other lodges to join, etc.
I wouldn't say it's "hard tradition" unless your meaning of that is different from what I'm thinking. The whole thing is to be a band of brothers that help their fellow man out and improve his area. It can help with some skills like public speaking, and if you get to working with some brothers then they can teach you whatever is needed.
They're the kind of guys that you could call at 11 pm at night on a Sunday and they'll pick you up if you need a ride home. They're secret and all about being together in an order because your average person is not all that good, as much as we'd like them to be. So to separate this, you're part of a group that says that you're a good man and are deserving of help. Not saying that's the reasoning of it, but you could say that's a part of why they're a somewhat secretive group other than simply following tradition.
>>74129090
I was too much of a pussy to handle my parents splitting up with my dignity intact and I became an angsty goth kid when I was 13. The goth culture led me to the bizarre and morbid. I frequented sites like rotten.com to look at pictures of dead or dying people, listened to bands like Marilyn Manson and Cradle of Filth, and got very interested in the work of Anton Lavey.
As I grew out of being goth by age 18 my interests didn't change by too much. The occult nature of Satanism and my gift of above-average curiosity led me to learn about secret societies and Luciferian prophesies. I delved into religion to whatever depths I could and visited my local lodge after watching Secrets In Plain Sight on Youtube. /pol/ here led to Coopers Mystery Babylon series. After which I consumed everything he broadcasted.
It seems we both have strange stories leading us to this place at the same time.
In your community it's a great way to meet some good friends, and network.
>>74129425
>They're the kind of guys that you could call at 11 pm at night on a Sunday and they'll pick you up if you need a ride home.
This hits it out of the park.
If you believe in the "Illuminati", like I do, the Freemasons are basically the bottom of the barrel. It's no different than trying to become an actor, in comparison to them.
If you meet the requirements, I say go join it.
>>74128866
>>74129745
Though I must say I find your story far more intriguing. How do you feel about your mother's role? How did your father feel about it?
>>74118626
Do it. Fed judges here are on it
>>74118626
That's what it is meant to be, and can be. Most of them just need the apathy shaken off.
Eastern Europe is pretty good, though, so you should be right.
>>74125122
The whole building (or at least the floors with lodges) has rooms like that. It's great.
>>74130039
not sure if you mean me or the other guy you referenced, but i'm the pagan mom guy:
so i was in the summer before 7th grade and i was at camp. i guess the couple years of mom hiding in her office at the house and telling people online that she only had one kid (i was nosy, knew more about computers, and there were four of us) meant more then we just didn't have to go to church if we didn't want to anymore.
she left in the middle of the night while my two younger sisters were asleep and moved to vermont to fuck a hippie, i mean be a high priestess.
my dad didn't take it well.
my dad paid for her apartment and for her to open an occult shop in vermont. he built her webpage for her.
christmas the first year was at her apartment. i overheard my dad and her having sex.
i blinded myself to everything, didn't tell anyone in my catholic grade school class of 20 kids that my mom left, and blah blah blah, my dad became a black out drunk at home who managed to hold down a very high paying IT job in manhattan.
long story short, i was also, like the other guy, an angsty kid who slacked off, refused to be interested in school and was attracted to things that made me special because it doesn't take a degree to diagnose my neediness issues.
i fell into art and music and a lot of alone time taking in alternative media and esoteric type information. lucky for me i also had some great teachers and some really great history teachers. i was able to, after some awkward and embarrassing attempts at embracing my mothers new found 'religion' and then attempting to believe some of the counter culture stuff as a way to occupy my mind.
did my mom play a role shaping the direction of my attention? sure did.
so did my dads...fucking strange reaction - he is totally fine and sober for years now, by the way. great guy, still can't believe he held down that amazingly stressful job while drinking entire $25 dollar bottles of vodka to pass out every second he was home.
>my "dad/grandpa/uncle" is/was a mason and he was a nice guy so it must be fine.
>>74131645
i was able to approach it as an interesting subject of study because of their interpretation of history and esoteric sources. the reason for my interest in understanding the mindset of people who fall into these groups is pretty obvious.
hitler arrested the masons, that how you know they have to go back
>>74131817
like i said before, fair point.
there could be all kinds of 'jewery'; or child touching; or satanism; or domination oriented occultism; or a funnel for ritualistic world and industry and corporate leaders; or like...old guy group touching sessions.
it's a mystery and i guess you can get a lot done in two hours a couple times a week.
>>74131817
>I read some dodgy information from a spurious source
>They must all fit with my confirmation bias
>>74132158
He also got involved with a land war in Russia in winter. Would you want to do that too?
>>74116341
My grandfather was a Free Mason. He was also a Shriner. I still have his Shriner fez, and remember going to the Shrine Circus with him.
He said that one of the core beliefs of Free Masons was to leave the world a better place than when you came into it.
>>74132240
it's fucking tempting. snow is pretty.
>>74131645
This post
>>74130039
Was me continuing this post
>>74129745
All me, all addressed to you. ID's are a thing, just saying.
Have you heard from the High Priestess a lot since her departure? Man, that is a very interesting thing.
My parents were both hippie-like. They never taught me of religion or much of anything else really. They kept me alive and took care of me when I needed it, but I was mostly on my own. Before they split, I lived in an apartment complex in AZ. It was huge but it had a wall so my parents let me wander the place without them for the entirety of my childhood. I had nothing to do but play with other kids and educate myself, leading to a very self-centered personality as I am also an only child. When they split my mother moved to the OH where I was raised by her. A father not being around amplifies narcissism and general bratiness.
So my story has many contrasts to yours. Good talking to you, anon.
>>74132958
That is, in case the thread archives before you respond.
>>74132173
>there could be
they have a sign they do in court to get away with shit.
jack the ripper was a spree killer and got away with it because he was a mason.
>>74133236
Jack the Ripper never had a trial. wtf are you talking about?
![gmhsd[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/yRsuVHE.gif "gmhsd[1].gif")
>>74133312
im talking about two different things
>>74116341
>This thread
God, you guys are worse than JIDF
>>74116341
its a meme they're old lame fat guys now
>>74132958
when she left we entered this strange phase of her having me visit her for a week or two at a time once a year and seeing her at Christmas time down at my older sisters place in north carolina.
by the time i graduated eighth grade, she had just moved to an island in north carolina to be near my older sister. she had just moved to north carolina to go to college when my mom decided to leave the family.
when she was in north carolina, i again would visit once a year. i would spend half the time with my older sister and her fiance, now husband. then i would drive down to my mom at the very south of the state near myrtle beach.
during college she convinced me to move to north carolina. looking back, i was needy and she had spent all my time visiting her telling me how my father didn't love me. either he drank because he hated me or he got sober because he loves himself, and obviously hated me. i never hated him and she kept me at a distance so i was left to throw myself into anything that would get me attention - poems, drawing, music, knowing history, reading a lot, watching a shit ton of agatha christie done by bbc.
anyway, i moved to north caroline. when i visited to find a place and decide to move there, she was amazing. she was amazing getting me moved in. i saw her three times in a year. once at christmas at my sisters. once to help her fix her dryer - she hadn't cleaned the lint catcher in so long i was surprised it hadn't burnt down the building.
my sister mentioned off hand that moving mom into her new place two hours away was really hard and that she was kind of annoyed i didn't want to come help.
my mom never told me she was moving. so i moved back home. haven't talked to her or seen her in over seven years.
>>74133418
I get the idea of using signs to communicate secret messages, but there's no proof that the real Ripper was ever caught, let alone put to trial. If one of the people accused of being this sensational killer in an age where most everyone was being accused of witchcraft actually was him, we have not yet confirmed it.
>>74133803
he was never caught because he was a mason and they sheltered him from prosecution
>>74133418
Literally the Team America Distress Signal.
>>74133905
alight, but to what end?
>>74116341
>>74133532
This. They haven't been relevant at all for decades. They had peak power like 200 years ago and have declined since.
>>74133743
Wow wtf. Did you ever think to become a Freemason as a result of your longing for distinction?
>>74133905
Any proof of that, beyond Alan Moore accusations?
>>74134014
The mixup of regalia there is so vexing.
>>74133905
>there's no proof that the real Ripper was ever caught, let alone put to trial
>he was never caught because he was a mason and they sheltered him from prosecution
Can you point me in the direction of fucking anything that proves anyone knew who he was?
>>74134130
nah. too goofy.
once you dabble with taking the witchcraft seriously and having grown up with and easily rejecting catholicism after there was no longer pressure applied, another goofy set of shared beliefs that hinge on belief in a higher power, any higher power is fine, but not none, wasn't appealing.
>>74134402
I don't like being at the bottom of a hierarchy topped with very questionable individuals. And paying for it. And not being able to talk about things I find interesting or important because my friends and superiors will shun me for it. I'm also not too keen on the prospect of learning from people whose history of truth-telling is so daunting. If there were some sort of "open source" version of this fraternity that didn't have a hierarchy or an affinity for concealment of knowledge, I'd have joined years ago.
>>74135069
Are these concerns about Freemasonry? Because they're not really too applicable.
>>74135069
you could always try it my way:
realize the only thing that matters is not wasting my entire life paying for things so save up a meager amount of money after paying off school loans and bills from buying useless crap. buy a tiny house with a mortgage payment of less than one thousand a month. attempt to pay off thirty year loan in less than fifteen and then not be a debt slave (minus all the sovereign citizen nonsense).
i'm not sure if it will work out but, fuck it, i'm too old to not finally be trying this. not two years in so far.
>>74116341
It depends on why you wish to join, if you seek power don't bother applying. If you are a man in good standing who wishes to reach a higher standard than by all means come. Our only requirement is that you believe in God, this is not out of prejudice but merely because it would be pointless for an atheist to join as they would get nothing out of it. Freemason lodges are different varying by country but nonetheless we are all brothers.
>>74135273
And you should know by this point, if you've been following my conversations at all, where I stand in relation to that sentiment. Of course they're applicable.
When you join Freemasonry do you not have to swear upon a holy book of your choosing not to reveal core secrets of Freemasonry?
If so, how might I, a profane or whatever the fuck, know what kinds of secrets I'll be keeping? They are secrets, after all, so I have no clue.
I would be at the bottom of a hierarchy, right? And is it really an error to suggest that people who veil themselves in secrecy generate above-average curiosity from onlookers? Your worshipful masters (please spare explaining the term, I already know) are indeed also Freemasons, right? So they are questionable to many people.
You pay a fee.
They teach you their supposed knowledge though the initiate has no real way of vetting said knowledge. So they could be teaching you horseshit.
All that said, I was actually talking about both Freemasonry and The US government.
>>74135680
I'll keep your advice in consideration.
>>74122077
Atlanta Masonic Center. I was there a few months back attending a workshop on being Worshipful Master. Mostly Scottish Rite stuff goes on in there. They have these huge tapestries that are backdrops to some of the degrees / reenactments. Grand Lodge of Georgia just spent nearly $100,000 having them touched up I believe
>>74135826
>And you should know by this point, if you've been following my conversations at all, where I stand in relation to that sentiment.
My bad, i was only glancing through them because i thought you were talking about something else.
>When you join Freemasonry do you not have to swear upon a holy book of your choosing not to reveal core secrets of Freemasonry?
You do, aye.
>If so, how might I, a profane or whatever the fuck, know what kinds of secrets I'll be keeping?
You could ask? The secrets are the antient means of recognition (pass words, salutes, and "handshakes"), as they were considered the equivalent of a certificate among unlettered people. Keeping the secrets shows your dedication to quality.
>I would be at the bottom of a hierarchy, right?
Nope. We all meet on the level. The only exception is that in some US states, they don't let you vote until your third degree (which takes a month or two).
>Your worshipful masters are indeed also Freemasons, right?
Duh, we're all brothers. Office bearers aren't above anyone, they just have the responsibility of performing the ceremonies.
>You pay a fee.
Only to keep the lights on. Any organisation which meets anywhere needs the same fee.
>They teach you their supposed knowledge though the initiate has no real way of vetting said knowledge. So they could be teaching you horseshit.
Not really. As in, we specifically say, "this isn't actual history." It's just things to learn from on your own.
>>74136091
They should have spend a few dollars retouching the outside of that SR Cathedral. Though that style is always ghastly.
>>74136704
>You could ask?
I meant before joining. Before joining, I have no way of knowing what the secrets are that I will be vowing before to keep. Could all be innocent, but I'm not convinced of that by any means. Nor am I fully convinced that your order is systemically evil.
>Nope. We all meet on the level.
That's true from what I've been told, but I'm an overly suspicious person and as such I suspect that the knowledge in your fraternity is controlled by a sort of inner-circle. Masons have told me that the lodges are largely independent from one-another. I'm not disputing that, I'm suggesting that there are those in your fraternity with control over the ability to legitimize information within the fraternity. Like a small group of priests, perhaps. This is what I've found. Feel free to give more input.
>Only to keep the lights on. Any organisation which meets anywhere needs the same fee.
That's fine, but I prefer organizations of my peers that don't involve fees. "Hanging out", as it were.
>Not really. As in, we specifically say, "this isn't actual history." It's just things to learn from on your own
My local Masonic Library was full of books by obscure or nameless authors. This knowledge - true or false - is unknown to most and thus not very thoroughly scrutinized. Apart from what's in the books, I did mention having secrets revealed to you. Again, they're secrets, so I don't know if what they will tell me will be true, false, myth, somewhere in-between, etc. and I don't want to swear an oath to protect secrets.
>>74138119
>I meant before joining. Before joining, I have no way of knowing what the secrets are that I will be vowing before to keep.
That's what i meant by asking...
>I suspect that the knowledge in your fraternity is controlled by a sort of inner-circle.
We don't really have that kind of knowledge per se. As in, the rituals are starting points, not endgames like the Elunesian or Mithraic Initiations.
>I'm suggesting that there are those in your fraternity with control over the ability to legitimize information within the fraternity.
Kinda, but again, it doesn't work that way. The rituals are pretty static, however different from other jurisdictions.
>That's fine, but I prefer organizations of my peers that don't involve fees.
Fair enough, but then that's not an organisation.
Members of the Craft decide that it's worth $200/yr to have a place to get together with likeminded dudes and share/transmit knowledge.
>This knowledge - true or false - is unknown to most and thus not very thoroughly scrutinized.
It actually is. Most of those books would have been regarding Masonic history, which anyone can study. Or Biblical and other philosophy, which everyone can study.
But the important point is that none of it is Gospel. All of those books would have been commentaries or personal thoughts taken from what they've learned by applying Masonic teaching. The secrets [themselves] have very little to do with that.
>>74116341
I think the alt-right should have been more like a secret society, now they've fucked up and are starting to get blacklisted (see Curtis Yarvin).
>>74116341
>Mfw I live near a freemason building
>>74138802
The knowledge is in the symbolism. Masons tell you what their symbols mean. Unless there is some authority on the many meanings of Masonic symbolism who is not a Freemason, then your understanding of the symbols you begin to fill your life with is given to you directly by other Masons. There are those Masons who know more than most through years of interaction with Masons from all over, and they relay what they've learned downward to those of less experience. Perhaps what you're being told is sort of a running joke. That's what you believe, right? But what if the few who spread the info are laughing AT you, and not WITH you? What kind of joke might this be? One like the Bohemian Club and its shenanigans.
>Members of the Craft decide that it's worth $200/yr to have a place to get together with likeminded dudes and share/transmit knowledge
I totally get that and I'm not saying that's inherently bad. it's just not my taste. And many organizations of people meet outside and pay nothing to anyone for it. You like your setting and I like mine.
>It actually is. Most of those books would have been regarding Masonic history, which anyone can study
Yes, most of the books were about Masonic history. Written mostly by Masons, I'd wager. How many non-Masons created the works in that library, now you've got me wondering. But, a great deal of the books were about Masonic symbolism and some interesting shared beliefs held by Masons throughout history. Going really really far back to the days of the great hunters. I don't image these books written by Masons could possibly be intentionally misleading though.
>>74139860
>Masons tell you what their symbols mean
No, we give some interpretations, and tell the candidate to go from there.
>Unless there is some authority on the many meanings of Masonic symbolism who is not a Freemason, then your understanding of the symbols you begin to fill your life with is given to you directly by other Masons.
There's actually a popular Pike quote about just that, regarding those who listen to what they're told and leave it at that. How they're being lied to with their complacency, when there's much more to it all which won't be taught for those who care to seek.
>There are those Masons who know more than most through years of interaction with Masons from all over, and they relay what they've learned downward to those of less experience. Perhaps what you're being told is sort of a running joke. That's what you believe, right? But what if the few who spread the info are laughing AT you, and not WITH you? What kind of joke might this be? One like the Bohemian Club and its shenanigans.
Wut.
>You like your setting and I like mine.
Oh i get that. I wasn't commenting either way, just explaining it.
>How many non-Masons created the works in that library, now you've got me wondering
Quite a few, i imagine, as there are in ours. But it's to do with few outsiders really having an interest. Beyond the anti-Masons, that is.
>>74116792
Pretty much this. It's just old guys getting drunk together.
>>74140453
>Wut.
I'll clarify, since I risked some assumptions in there. I'm saying: what if what the most knowledgeable Masons are telling the least knowledgeable Masons is filled with disinformation? Hear me out, because I know this has never happened before in a fraternal order, but I think your order has a purpose beyond what is told to outsiders and even to many Master Masons. Call me crazy.
>anti-Masons
I'm not necessarily anti-Mason, if you meant to imply that. I just don't trust you is all. You've given me some swell insights though. I truly appreciate your time and efforts to educate such a seemingly hostile person as myself. May the gods be with you.
>>74139764
Do you hear the goat wails often?
>>74140608
Blimey i hate the Shrine and the legacy it has wrought.
>>74141257
>what if what the most knowledgeable Masons are telling the least knowledgeable Masons is filled with disinformation?
Ah, gotcha. Well, yes, that specifically does happen. Not from malice, but from ignorance and apathy of the "higher ups" (guessing you mean longer serving members).
But once more, that doesn't really matter, since a proper Mason should be able to see beyond that and learn for themselves.
>but I think your order has a purpose beyond what is told to outsiders and even to many Master Masons
I can totally see where you'd think that, but you're making it out more grandiose than it really is. People like Adam Weishaupt have tried, and there are probably others now who have succeeded where he failed, but it's not within the aegis of Freemasonry. If that makes sense.
>I'm not necessarily anti-Mason, if you meant to imply that.
No no, just that as far as authors of Masonic topics go, you get 95% members, 1% non-members, and 4% anti-Masons like Jack Chick.
>I truly appreciate your time and efforts to educate such a seemingly hostile person as myself.
Hah, didn't think you were hostile, just not as well informed as it seemed you wanted to be.
The best advice i could give would be to go read some of those authors. Start with Chris Hodepp (Dummies Guide to Masonry), as it goes from the entry level better than i've done here.
>>74141257
Also,
>May the gods be with you.
May the Father of Understanding guide you.
>>74141628
>>74141654
I suppose I don't have leave just yet.
>Well, yes, that specifically does happen. Not from malice, but from ignorance and apathy of the "higher ups" (guessing you mean longer serving members)
If I grant that the wisest of your order are all immune to malice, I'm still left with a big concern: how many initiates are ignorant because they don't care? A lot? Do they still "serve"?
>I can totally see where you'd think that, but you're making it out more grandiose than it really is. People like Adam Weishaupt have tried, and there are probably others now who have succeeded where he failed, but it's not within the aegis of Freemasonry. If that makes sense.
And I can totally see why a Mason would say that to a non-Mason. You've got to understand before/if we continue: my suspicion of Freemasonry won't likely be broken by a Mason.
>Hah, didn't think you were hostile, just not as well informed as it seemed you wanted to be.
As an authority on myself, I must deny that I have been so vain. I merely know more than you could imagine.
>The best advice i could give would be to go read some of those authors. Start with Chris Hodepp (Dummies Guide to Masonry), as it goes from the entry level better than i've done here.
Good. That will be in a nice, understandable format. I often get lost when reading the more complex books.
>May the Father of Understanding guide you
That is interesting. Would you care to tell me more about the Father of Understanding?
>>74142617
>how many initiates are ignorant because they don't care? A lot?
Disappointingly yes. Don't get me wrong, there is still great value in the Craft and many of the members/lodges (Traditional Observance is good as gold). But there are so many who have fallen to the baby boomer ethic of a charity club.
>Do they still "serve"?
Sometimes. At best they keep the ship chugging along by filling vacant officers. At worst they drive away the actually interested by pushing Rotary style crap.
>my suspicion of Freemasonry won't likely be broken by a Mason.
Reasonable.
>I often get lost when reading the more complex books.
Once you build the foundation, it's easy to work upwards on the other books.
>That is interesting. Would you care to tell me more about the Father of Understanding?
Sorry, i was making a Templar joke. It was how the actual Templars referred to God, and has since been abused by the Assassin's Creed games.
>>74116341
Its insignificant at your level. You'll go in a place, do presentation and hear other people do their own about freedom and whatever bs they are into. You might get more intimate with a few people though, maybe a ranked police guy and you'll never pay tickets again. and then it goes on. Thats small stuff, the big stuff you wouldnt hear about.
>>74142962
>Once you build the foundation, it's easy to work upwards on the other books
If it worked with studying all my favorite gods, it'll work with studying Freemasonry, I hear ya.
>Sorry, i was making a Templar joke. It was how the actual Templars referred to God, and has since been abused by the Assassin's Creed games.
My bad. A little disappointing though. Do you worship any god or gods? Any deity in particular? I understand belief is a requisite but worship is not.
Freemasonry would be alright if they left God and hazing out of it. Finding an excuse to hang out with some bros and raising money for charity seems okay in my book.
>>74143743
No hazing so far - MMM. That's why I joined...the charity and cool Bros!
freemasonry = frat club for old men
My town has a fairly large Maisonic Temple. It's a railroad town that hasn't changed since the 40s.
gfam monica
>>74143276
>Do you worship any god or gods?
Personally yes. The Craft demands only belief, though. For the Chivalric/Research/Christian degrees, though, you have to be a Trinitarian Christian to join. But we still don't engage in sectarian worship.
>A little disappointing though.
Agreed. But let's just say there are people working on improving it, since the Templar experience for the most part is shockingly tepid and unfulfilling in the mainstream usage.
>>74143743
>hazing
Very much not allowed.
>Finding an excuse to hang out with some bros and raising money for charity seems okay in my book.
Rotary? Lions? Kiwanis?
>>74143831
>MMM
Sure you're not an imposter?
>>74144382
Any pics? I occasionally steal them and put them on the FB page for lodges.
>>74144044
This. A bunch of drunks who fuck each other wives
>>74144044
I find it odd when anyone European makes that claim. It's somewhat true in the USA, and even a bit in England and Ireland, but Euros keep a pretty tight ship. Sorry, but it makes me think you get your information from American propaganda (for lack of a better word).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhHZZmdBeM
>>74146137
Such a shame, after what the Prussian Freemasons did for the Nazi party.
I respect the paranoid ramblings I find in endchan and 8ch.pl so much more than the tacit faggoty responses we're getting to this otherwise serious question.
A.) 4chan is infested with young bloods (new Masons and Master Masons, seriously all -- stahp) looking to promote FM because, as of late, it's become an old man's club and is in desperate need of some revitalization.
B.) There's no hazing. The esoteric shit is largely optional if that's not your thing. Yep, there's dues. Dues change depending upon where you live and how fancy your lodge is.
C.) It's not the big deal the occultists make it out to be. A lot of those guys, at least from observation and some experience, are still very confused about their own dissonant views (we all have them, most especially those who wander into those trains of thought) and seek to pin the blame on any number of the many strands of human organization floating around the world. Don't worry, man, if you want to pin blame or "discover the conspiracy", there will be no shortage of potential because (and this may come as a surprise) not all FMs agree about everything all the time. We generally take care of our own whenever possible but not always and not under certain conditions.
C.) Kikery is kikery. If you think FMs are leashed by the kikes, everything you investigate will confirm this. If you think they're not, then they're not.
D.) FM is precisely what you put into it. The real secrets and discoveries are yours and yours alone. This can be scary in a world where you are perpetually taught to be a sniveling child and have mommy wipe your ass and get your chicken tendies for you. For a man, it's just a rite of passage. Those lessons or secrets you learn will not be hand-delivered to you. The methods to discover those secrets will be. You will have to do your own shit if you want to make something of it.
D.) Hitler did nothing wrong. ;)
>>74148601
>looking to promote FM
Not so much promote, but clear up misconceptions. Better to have people investigate themselves than have to promote.
>because, as of late, it's become an old man's club and is in desperate need of some revitalization.
In parts. But we're doing the revitalising ourselves well enough.
@OP
If you really want to impress them at your induction, you'll ask,
"Oh Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow's son?"
>>74133959
holy shit
The Eye is The See.
>>74116341
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=styLx-iWwC8&feature=youtu.be&t=2490
40 minutes in.
Freemasonry is the study of the kabbalah and the talmud. It is the occult wing of satanic judaism.
EVERY masonic temple will have the star of david on it's fascia either openly or hidden.
>>74151231
>Freemasonry is the study of the kabbalah and the talmud. It is the occult wing of satanic judaism.
Nah. You can choose to study those things if you like in one of the Christian Research orders, but it's not a part of Freemasonry.
>EVERY masonic temple will have the star of david on it's fascia either openly or hidden.
Only if the HRA meet there too in most cases. Certainly should, though, given the use of the symbol.
>>74151402
You are in every one of these threads and I have routed out your lies each time.
Albert Pike said in his book that the 33 rituals come from the kabbalah.
The star of david is on every masonic temple.
It is not about whether you choose to worship it. The great architect is moloch. The higher in the rituals you proceed through, the more you understand this.
Freemasonry's primary goal is to recreate the temple that solomon made to moloch.
You are a satanist. You are lost in the eyes of God himself. You literally serve against him.
>>74151523
>You are in every one of these threads and I have routed out your lies each time.
Hah, whatever you need to tell yourself, friend.
>Albert Pike said in his book that the 33 rituals come from the kabbalah.
[Citation Needed]
>The star of david is on every masonic temple.
Not every. Should be, but not every.
>It is not about whether you choose to worship it. The great architect is moloch.
Maybe for you, but not for followers of other faiths.
>Freemasonry's primary goal is to recreate the temple that solomon made to moloch.
Solomon didn't make a temple to Moloch... And Freemasonry has no goal about recreating anything.
>You are a satanist.
Nah, I'm a Lutheran.
>You literally serve against him.
How is that even possible? Like, I don't know how it is with your religion, but for me (and millions others) as a Christian, God is omnipotent/omnipresent/omniscient.
>>74151729
Albert Pikes book is required reading for freemasonry you fucking turd.
It is on EVERY temple. Either hidden or overt.
The great architect is moloch. This is the ultimate truth of freemasonry. Every ritual up until that point is to replace your God with him. That's all. And you've done it. Didn't you yourself say you've called God almighty, allah?
Allah. The head god of a pantheon of 360. A head god with two daughters. A head god that existed in arabian paganism for several hundred years before muhammed was born. Muhammed's father was called abdullah. Literally meaning slave to allah.
You don't worship God. You worship moloch. You're not lutheran. You're not Christian. It's not enough to call yourself something. You must be it.
And you are not you filthy cunt. You've sullied your soul.
Serving the devil isn't working against God? My my. You will say anything to try and save yourself won't you. You will beg. BEG. When your time comes. And you will have no one to blame but yourself child.
>>74152116
>>74152116
tfw is moloch?
Keep posting pics
>>74152116
>Albert Pikes book is required reading for freemasonry you fucking turd.
Hah, no it isn't. It's not even required for the A&AR SJ, which is the only area to which it applies. You need it for the MC2 program is about it.
>It is on EVERY temple. Either hidden or overt.
Again, not every.
>The great architect is moloch.
Again, for you perhaps. But given that Great Architect is just a placeholder name, that's not the case for everyone. Any idiot who has read anything about Masonry knows this. But i guess we know where that leaves you.
>Didn't you yourself say you've called God almighty, allah?
No, because i'm not Arabic/don't speak Arabic.
>You're not lutheran. You're not Christian.
Who are you to say?
>Serving the devil isn't working against God?
I guess? If you believe in that sort of thing. But my Christian faith doesn't really leave a lot of room for anyone to stand against Him. Maybe it's different for your religion?
>>74152662
>I can actively work against God and christianity by serving a false god even though the bible tells me not to because God is so powerful he doesn't give a shit.
God isn't your president. He's not your prime minister. The bible is not a set of laws for God. It is a set of laws FOR YOU. And it is simple. You follow them and you are saved. You do not and you are not saved.
You are not saved child. You're lost. Your soul is nothing but a whores. Willing to sell it to anyone that appeases you. You are compromise. You are blasphemy. You are sin.
God cares. And that's why you won't be saved. That is why you've damned yourself.
Oh and yes you did say you called God allah. Along with other names you lying fucking cunt. Lie all you wish. But you cannot lie to God.
The great architect IS moloch. Every ritual you complete cuts you from God almighty and poisons your soul. Only you can give up your soul. And only willingly. Only you can soil it. And only with your actions.
The bible says you're not Christian child. Read it someday you fucking blasphemous satanic cunt.
>>74152649
moloch, baal, remphan etc were names for the devil. the jews worshipped these so called gods when they turned from God almighty at the end of Solomon's reign over Judea. Solomon built temples to moloch when his many satanic wives turned him from God to other so called gods which were satan. The jews actually sacrificed their children to moloch. Throwing them into his fires at the temple. Funny enough when the Jews worshipped other so called gods they carried a banner of a star. Read the star of david.
>>74153069
So are you saying, like, god exists?
>>74153069
>I can actively work against God and christianity by serving a false god
Except i don't. You seem to want me to, but that won't make it true.
>Oh and yes you did say you called God allah
I did? I mean, I use the term "Deus" quite a lot. Or "Dieu", but not a whole lot of reason in my day to day to use Arabic.
>The bible says you're not Christian
Actually it says the opposite. I suggest you read it some time.
>moloch, baal, remphan etc were names for the devil.
No they weren't. They were pagan Gods.
>>74153580
Look. All of you.
A man fed lies, speaks them himself.
Pagan gods are not the devil.
The Bible says that this man is Christian. Even though he has said he has called God almighty, allah. A pagan god. Even though he worships the Jewish kabbalah and talmud. Even though the Bible tells him that these are blasphemous. Even Christ. The lord manifest on earth said that the pharisees were satanic. But no. He knows better. He knows better than his own messiah.
Look at this man. Look at him and pity him. Because in ignorance he has lost God. He has lost his soul. And he has lost his way.
Pity him.
I had my local Freemasons group come to the restaurant I wait at. They were kind of intimidating, very polite though.
>>74116341
Why spend time doing weird pointless rituals
>>74153730
>Even though he has said he has called God almighty, God
Seriously, there other languages. Curious that you've ignored my mention of Deus or Dieu. Almost like that wrecks your foolish "argument."
>Even though he worships the Jewish kabbalah and talmud.
Nah, not really a fan of either.
Also, what's with the Asian chicks?
>>74153803
>intimidating
Better than silly looking. Such a cringefest going to the local with certain orders with all the toasts and silly titles we have to use.
>>74153918
>allah means god.
It doesn't. Educate yourself you fucking retarded child.
The study of freemasonry is the study of the kabbalah and the talmud. The rituals COME FROM THE KABBALAH.
You are a part of it. You are a part of what YOUR messiah called satanism.
You are in it. Soaked in it. What do you think God will think of you when you come to him?
You are lost. You worship pagan gods which are the devil. You worship moloch, baal, remphan himself. The devil. You are a satanist. And you lie to others claiming you're not when your actions show yourself to be.
You are a pitiful child. Fumbling around in stupidity and latching on to anything that someone tells you is god.
You neglect the bible. You spit on Jesus Christ and God himself. You are the filth masquerading as a Christian.
>>74154123
>It doesn't.
It specifically does. It's the Arabic word for it. I'm not commenting on their beliefs, this is just a language thing which you are weirdly obsessed with.
>The study of freemasonry is the study of the kabbalah and the talmud.
Nah. Talmud isn't even mentioned, but you can take Qabbalah as an elective in the research degrees.
>The rituals COME FROM THE KABBALAH.
Also nah. They come from 16th century guild plays which were given by Christian monasteries to perform on holidays.
>You are a part of what YOUR messiah called satanism.
Nope.
>You worship pagan gods which are the devil. You worship moloch, baal, remphan himself. The devil.
I really don't, and have no desire to.
>You neglect the bible.
I try not to, but hey, no one is perfect.
>>74154304
Allah as the Pre-Islamic Arabian High God
Belief in Allah was widespread across the Arabian peninsula prior to the rise of Mohammed. However, the Allah worshipped in those days was not the monotheistic Allah who Muslims know today. Rather, Allah was just one of many gods, most often considered to be the highest or supreme god among many in a henotheistic system that developed in Arabia over the centuries prior to Islam.
“The name Allah, as the Quran itself is witness, was well known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Arabia.” 24
“Allah was known to the pre-Islamic Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities.” 25
Watt states concerning the pre-Islamic Arabian religious situation,
“In recent years I have become increasingly convinced that for an adequate understanding of the career of Muhammad and that of Islam great importance must be attached to the existence in Mecca of belief in Allah as a ‘high god’. In a sense this is a form of paganism, but it is so different from paganism as commonly understood that it deserves separate treatment.” 26
However, when remarking that Allah was viewed as a "high god" in Arabia, this must not be understood to mean that he was the only god worshipped by the pre-Islamic Arabs. Watt elsewhere states,
"The use of the phrase “the Lord of this House” makes it likely that those Meccans who believed in Allah as a high god – and they may have been numerous – regarded the Ka’ba as his shrine, even though there were images of other gods in it. There are stories in the Sira of pagan Meccans praying to Allah while standing beside the image of Hubal."27
Get rekt you satanic worshipping cunt.
Also I think I'll take albert pikes view over yours you lying cunt.
So how much "le old boys club" meme has been posted already?
>>74153730
>He has lost his soul.
So is there nothing he can do to avoid damnation?
>>74154799
In Christianity you can only avoid damnation through acknowledging your sin.
He does not wish to acknowledge it. He doesn't even think it is sin.
Only through understanding your sin, admitting you are a sinner and asking God through Jesus Christ for redemption can you attain it.
>>74154571
>Allah as the Pre-Islamic Arabian High God
I've no doubt. Now, however, it is just their word for God. So all that other stuff doesn't really matter.
>Also I think I'll take albert pikes view
Which one?
>>74154799
If you read the Bible, there's a pretty main figure who says a lot about salvation for all.
>>74154940
>It is just their word for God
>demonstrate with sources that it's not and that allah is a specific being in a pagan religion
A liar you will always be. To everyone else, to yourself and even to God. Whom see's through your lies.
>>74155057
>demonstrate with sources that it's not
When did you do that? You posted about pre-Muslim stuff, but you haven't actually acknowledged what word is used when saying "God" in Arabic.
Do you think Christ is proud of your weak-arse deception for no good reason?
>>74155128
Scroll up little child. Sweet lost little boy. Ignorant baby.
You will see.
>>74116341
Got an uncle there
he's been there since he got rich in the 80ies
lot's of secrecy
but I really think he is just pulling our leg(the family)
>>74155230
You mean >>74154571?
Because you still haven't answered my question, friend: What is the Arabic word for God.
>>74116792
What's with all the occult rituals then? Why so spoopy?
>>74154617
Not as much this time. Kinda prefer the "I think they do things which i don't like!" meme over the "boys club" one.
>>74155420
Educational tools, basically.
>>74155320
The source answers your question clearly and I have spent at least three to four posts stating the same thing over and over again.
allah is the name of a specific being in a pre islamic pagan religion.
You have worshipped allah. You have worshiped this being. You said previously in this thread you'd never called God that and then contradicted yourself. Showing yourself as a liar.
Now you cannot admit that you are a blasphemer.
You have worshiped other gods.
You have strayed from Christ.
>>74116341
Pretty based until you realize the superior network is the Jewish Masonry, which you can't join if you don't have a kike mother.
Then you'll realize this all "humanism" freemasons pretend to advocate for is pure bullshit, they are a sect controlled by an even stronger one
>>74155498
>The source answers your question clearly
Where? Because I'm really not seeing it. I guess you aren't too, otherwise you could just say, "Arabic word for God = ...."
>You have worshiped other gods.
Nah. I mean, there aren't any, so there's that. But even the concept is something i haven't done, my weeaboo friend.
>>74154884
What about me though. I stopped believing in god a while ago and feel like I've done, said, and thought things which would make me damned even if I came back around to believe in god.
>>74154884
>>74155655
Amd isn't there something like sinful about posting all this sexy japanese girls??
It's just boy scouts for adults.
Enjoy your secret club house.
>>74154617
>>74155655
Christ has said that all can be saved if they admit their sin, ask for forgiveness and believe on him.
>>74155670
Not particularly.
>>74155609
>There aren't false gods.
>Bible literally says there are false gods.
You've already proved yourself a liar. Now a blasphemer. You're probably not even Christian. Just pretending to be.
>>74155895
>Bible literally says there are false gods.
Meh, Bible has a bunch of contradictions. In that sense, it's more like they've been falsely worshiping God. After all, if you really did believe there were other Gods, then you mustn't have much faith in God to begin with.
>You're probably not even Christian. Just pretending to be.
Would it matter? I imagine you'd still be the same blind zealot refusing to use God's greatest gift: A brain.
Not a Mason, but I have close friends and relatives who talk about it.
From what I have heard it's much like the rest of the anons here say it is. A fraternity.
Much of the symbolism and ritual is built around becoming "enlightened", and the rebirth of the individual- spiritually and intellectually.
From what I've heard, Tolstoy writes some pretty accurate portrayals of rite rituals in War and Peace. Accurate insofar as you "act" out your own death.
Aside from those things, I haven't heard or seen anything else creepy about it. If you visit your local lodge the members are much like the VFW or Foreign Legion members. Old.
If I had to guess I'd say their membership is dwindling. Young people don't really have interests in those types of organizations anymore.
>>74119557
Dues to my lodge are $75 yearly
>>74116341
Join them and be our spy anon. Report back to us what you see and what they do. Or go in with a hidden camera and live stream the entire shit.
>>74155730
That actually sounds like a lot of fun.
>>74156240
Damn dude, that really isn't enough. Unless your lodge has a massive income/interest on bank account. Might i ask what state? Because i was just reading stuff about Indiana.
>>74135680
thanks for sharing anon
it's nice to see someone sharing personal experience rather than the usual regurgitation of other people ideas
>>74155895
>Christ has said that all can be saved if they admit their sin, ask for forgiveness and believe on him.
Are there sins never forgiven?
>Not particularly.
Well they cause me to lust after them. I very much think that is the reason you have them for yourself.
>>74154571
>a jew says freemasonry is jewish
wow it must be true, a jew would never make something up for his own benefit...
>>74116341
Freemasons are the biggest most pseudo-redpilled (actually ultimate bluepilled) jew-cock suckers.
>>74123256
haha the jew star they're such jews
>>74156978
![star-of-david-santa-croce-facade-florence[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/PDCqG06.jpg "star-of-david-santa-croce-facade-florence[1].jpg")
>>74156978
>>74157516
Half of /pol/ are aparently freemasons. I don't know what to think right now
>>74156974
this. masons are good goys
>>74156839
I can't sin for you child. Only you can.
ALL sins are forgiven by Christ.
But only via those means. Admittance, Repentance, Forgiveness through Christ.
>Le epic rotary club for hipsters members arguing with brain dead christian schizos
This is a fun thread
>>74158239
4chan really brings people together.
>>74123591
the recordings of most his shows - including the Mystery Babylon series - are available for download on Hour Of The Time's website.
>>74116341
That is one beautiful zippo.
I actually used to have a friend who was a freemason, And it fucked up his life really bad, They made him swear not to say anything about it, But he broke his oath with them and spilled to me what they do inside
He told me that they would do a regular sacrafice to satan, Sometimes they would sacrafice a goat while covering themselves in the blood of the killed goat, they would also feast on the goat's body as they believed "It contains the power of satan", But afterwards they would get benefit's, There bills would have hundreds and hundreds magically dissapeared and some members would recieved brown bags filled with wads of cash just on their front door, They believed satan was the one giving them these things
They would normally discuss what to change in the USA like how they decided that donald trump would become the US president and such, And they did many rituals to make sure his win was guaranteed
Afterwards my friend fled from the country and moved to the UK with me, He torched all his freemason robes and all the scriptures and books he had been given by the higher up members after he had accepted the oath
He regularly fears for his life for running away from the freemasons and think's he is going to be assasinated soon
>>74159206
Cool story, but needs more dragons. May as well go all out.
I'm looking for som assbuddies. Is hitting up my local lodge a good idea?
>>74159571
Probably not. There have been swathes of edicts from the USA state Grand Lodges preventing homos from joining.
>>74159641
if anything homos would be accepted. im sorry but freemasonry just screams "GAY ORGIES"
Interesting, didn't even know there was a lodge near me. It's right across the road from the RSL and two major retirement homes too. Wonder how many old geezers pass their days in there.
Maybe one day I'll consider it. I know my Grandpa was a Freemason.
>>74116341
100 years ago you would've been cool. My local lodge is now a Scientology church.
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
2 Corinthians 6:14
>>74150872
Oh wow. Thanks.
>>74154617
Pretty much.
>>74156240
Low fee, even for younger members - good.
>>74156266
kek
>>74157829
90% of them are imposters
>>74159100
It really is!
>>74159206
sadfrog.meme
>>74116341
You'll go in hell if you join them.
>>74163146
I don't know dude, FM are more like Jews than Satanists
>>74116792
GFs grandfather was a grand master, can confirm this.
>>74161117
Nah, we're all about family values and traditionalism. Homos and their ilk don't really fit in there. Even with our bi-monthly gay orgies.
>>74162850
>Low fee, even for younger members - good.
May not be so cheap for you, though. Europe tends to be better priced.
>>74163146
Such a shitty fake quote, since there were no 30th, or 31st members in the USA.
>>74159206
He must have been a democrat/republican so far no goats!
>>74145391
Queen, Craft and Chapter! ~Sorry you're an Aussie... cunt. or Brother maybe, nice to meet you if so.
>>74156360
It completely depends on the location of the lodge. I'm in Washington state and my lodge is $100 a year. In Seattle I've heard of a lodge near $500. In my personal opinion I'd rather have more expensive dues for the reason more people would attend lodge because they are more invested in it, but that effects the older guys a lot who are on social security.
>>74164306
I was making a joke about the MMM degree. Sorry if that didn't come through.
>Queen, Craft and Chapter!
Damn straight, brother! Freemasonry is probably the only thing i'm jealous of NZ for.
>>74163703
>Such a shitty fake quote, since there were no 30th, or 31st members in the USA.
https://books.google.fr/books?id=cMtJAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Albert+Pike,+Morals+and+Dogma+of+the+Ancient+and+Accepted+Scottish+Rite+of+Freemasonry&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4vfKL0d7MAhUJ2xoKHS7LCpkQ6wEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=lucifer&f=false
https://books.google.fr/books?id=cMtJAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Albert+Pike,+Morals+and+Dogma+of+the+Ancient+and+Accepted+Scottish+Rite+of+Freemasonry&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4vfKL0d7MAhUJ2xoKHS7LCpkQ6wEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=lucifer&f=false
Free mason worship Satan, since you are one of them you're also satanist.
>>74164896
But do you know the origin of name Lucifer, right?
>>74164582
>I'd rather have more expensive dues for the reason more people would attend lodge because they are more invested in it
Exactly. It's futureproofing too, because maintenance, taxes, electricity and such will probably never get cheaper.
But yea, i don't know how to have that fit with older guys. I'm happy to say, "Can't afford it? Too bad." for guys my age, especially when the more expensive TO/EC lodges are flourishing, but not the long serving members who are too old to fix their situation.
It's a toughie, and I'm not sure I'd want to go the Mormon route of % income.
>>74164896
My bad. I thought it was the WW3 "quote."
But yea, what's wrong with that passage? I mean, you know Lucifer =/= the devil, right?
>>74149777
Nice trips! I agree but we're also in a open forum where we can hope that people make up their own mind... yeah I agree.
>>74148601
B) I came for the charity in interest of the esoteric shit but most people are unable to benefit largely from the Masonic model of eso. No hazing that's C) trying to dismantle it.
D) Hitler didn't give Rommel fuel and fucked over a bunch of Brothers.
>>74162850
FM encourages men to embrace the moral laws here in the material world. But so far no explicit Satan.
>>74164589
Totally missed the mark on that one. Sorry just got back home. We're still struggling but we're lucky to have a few new people at many Lodges. I'm a bit of an anachronism as I'm left, young, active and known. But with my most recent learning I had literally seen so much of it in dreams and thoughts that I know it's right(we used to be rite prior amalgamation). I truly think that the world would be a better place if men that wanted to help in the world and make a positive difference would join Free Masonry. I also very lucky to have such a great Lodge but I need to grow it before I get to the chair in three years.
S&F.
Anon(or not)
>>74165114
Read carefully, he clearly stated : Strange and mysterious name to give to the SPIRIT OF DARKNESS !
He don't speak about Jesus.
>>74156360
$75 dues guy here. North Carolina. Af&AM lodge. We keep our dues low but can operate because we have low overhead and all of us that regularly attend for meetings and degrees and stuff all pitch in together.
*pic unrelated
>>74116341
Ask one to be one.
All of you are speaking of Satanism, jeez.
On the other hand, could a Satanist join FM? Philosophical question. He is a bad guy, but technically Supreme Being.
FM, Discuss.
About those innocent Shriners and their Fez hats
>The Shriner is given a red fez with an Islamic sword and crescent jewel on the front of it. This sword emblem originates from 7th century Arabia when the Moslems, under the leadership of Muhammad (aka: Mohammed), slaughtered all Christians and Jews who would not bow down to the pagan moon god Allah. It is a symbol of subjugation.
>>74125122
>jewish kabbalistic symbolism
>YHWH written in hebrew on david's star
>(were) banned in various country
>dem be gud boiz, dindu nuffin wrong
Pure coincidence.
>>74165877
>The Masonic Shriners wear a red hat known as a Fez named after a town in Morocco, where in 980 AD, 50,000 Christians, including women and children, were brutally murdered by the Muslims. As the streets ran red with the Christians’ blood from the massacre, the Muslims dipped their hats in that blood as a testimony to Allah. The red Fez symbolizes the slaughter of Christians in that town. The Masons still wear the red Fez adorned with the Islamic crescent symbol. Among the oaths of the Masonic Shriner organization is one that says, “...and may Allah the God of Arab, Muslim, and Mohammedan, the God of our fathers support me to the entire fulfillment of the same. Amen, Amen, Amen.”
>The fez derives its name from the place where it first was manufactured commercially, the city of Fez, in Morocco. Some say, the red color is to memorialize the color of blood, and the Muslim victories over Christians.
>>74165321
>Totally missed the mark on that one.
Bah-dum-tish.
>I also very lucky to have such a great Lodge but I need to grow it before I get to the chair in three years.
I hear that, but (and you've probably heard this before) try and make it a lodge worth supporting, rather than just trying to drag in members. First time i was in the chair, it was shite because my predecessors thought quantity > quality. We did lots of degree ceremonies, but then gave no reason for people to stay afterwards. If you haven't already, get close with the ANZMRC (Aus. & NZ Masonic Research Council) guys like Rick Num. They'll be able to give you lots of stuff to keep the meetings golden.
>>74165351
>Read carefully, he clearly stated : Strange and mysterious name to give to the SPIRIT OF DARKNESS !
Yea, exactly. I guess it's not well translated into French? It means, "Why would you call a spirit of darkness the name normally associated with Christ in the Bible? Why call darkness light?"
>>74165581
I get that, but you may not always. I don't want to say, "You have to do it this way." But if you have the chance, convince them to push it up a bit for some futureproofing.
Though i have been to a lodge in Vegas where they make a few million per year due to owning land which they built casinos on. So they set dues at $50 just to have joining members have some commitment, but they had like a 15% turn up rate to meetings.
>>74165756
Theoretically yes, and this question comes up a lot. But functionally, probably not, since their views would be contra to Masonry, and the main problem would be having the members vote yes on them.
>>74165877
The Shriners (and Grotto and a few others) use it just because it was associated with the orient and mysticism. Does seem like a poor choice now.
>>74165927
wtf is up with these hoods? Looks creepy
>>74164589
p.s. we have very low dues(hehehe/pol was right) <$200NZD a year, but we need more members . We are also lucky to have a little cash in the bank but not enough to do as much charity work as I'd like. That's also one of the big issues with F then W then L. We seldom to never get any large amounts of income as we always put others first.
>>74165709
2b1ask1 meme right American! How come Burgers never get their compass right?
>>74116341
Zippos are such awful quality meme lighters. The lighter fluid dries out super quick. Better to invest in a butane lighter.
So you pay $10 bucks a month and they tell you the darkest secrets of the world?
That's no brainer!
>>74166073
It's not real. Just a museum Franco set up to make Masonry look creepy.
We do have hooded mantles in Templar and Acon, but they're never worn up. In the latter case, because they look exactly like KKK robes.
>>74166081
><$200NZD
That is a bit low.
>not enough to do as much charity work as I'd like.
Just remember that charity comes from the heart and the mind, not the wallet. Otherwise we'd be in Rotary. Check out the Masonic Roundtable episode on it for a more expanded look.
>We seldom to never get any large amounts of income as we always put others first.
Hah, not long after i joined, I asked one of the older guys why we couldn't afford to fix our shit up. He told me we shouldn't spend money on ourselves, and instead give it away. I said that if i wanted to give my money away, i'd do that, but i wanted to spend some on my lodge, employing the Corinthian ideal of beauty. He looked at me like i was crazy.
>How come Burgers never get their compass right?
Because they stick a G in the middle.
>>74166298
That's AMORC. The Craft has you work those secrets out yourself.
Come back when you become a level 9356 super mega grand master blizzard wizard and all your toys have that symbol so we can talk about how much of your life and money you wasted.
>>74166589
>and all your toys have that symbol
Yea, that was me after i joined. Walking billboard. Then i worked out rather than buying cheap Masonic stuff to wear in public, i should get good quality stuff to wear for lodge.
Way more subtle, efficient, and stylish.
A Christian should realize the wrongness of the pledge "I am lost in darkness, and I need the light of freemasonry".
>>74166589
Yeah, today money is the only sign of power, not some shitty stories.
>>74167005
Where is that said?
Masons worship satan, they fuck little kids and animals, they sacrifice them to get "enlightened" by satan.
>>74167046
oh they make orgies, where they fuck eachother.
some dude found their house in forrest and he saw how they sodomized themselfs with a giant black dildo and screamed "oh satan! enlighten us!"
if you like to molest little kids masons are good to go.
>>74116341
If you're a nationalist, then you should join Freemasonry they're against religious rule/oppression & democrazy, not to mention they have a lot of historical secrets about important events in in the world. And if you do join, always be open minded & never be bigot or act religious.
