YOU HAVE EXACTLY TEN SECONDS TO REFUTE LIBERTARIANISM.
There is nothing to refute
Not everyone is an autistic NAP enthusiast
Libertarians are pro-open borders, therefore literally none of their policies can be sustained under the crushing weight of trillions of niggers
>>74095503
pic related, who's gonna fix this lolbertarians
>>74095946
oh boy the ROAD MEME i bet you'll tell us to move to SOMALIA next, too!
>>74095883
Why would niggers travel somewhere with no social programs or a democratic system to implement them?
Checkmate
>>74095503
>>74095628
Lolbertarians are delusional faggots. who the fuck wants to be a faceless consumer with no racial or national identity in a world with open borders and minimal government regulation? sounds like recipe for invasion if you ask me.
>>74095503
?
>>74096060
>its dilusional to take a concrete moral stance against violence and theft.
>>74095883
Removing welfare will take care of the negro problem
Environment.
Are we done here?
>>74096185
what you going to do when someone tries to steal from you??
>call the police (ups, no govorenment)
>shoot him (ups, non agression principle)
lolbertarians are worse than bernie supporters
>>74096389
>doesn't know what libertarianism is
>>74096389
>Libertarianism
>Anarchism
>>74096047
>attacks an argument for being common rather than refuting it
>still can't refute it
If it's so common I would expect you to have more answers prepared. :^)
>>74096389
I have private security that already takes care of this issue as part of my condo fees. I also own a gun.
>hur dur if the government doesn't do it no one will.
Lol
>>74096437
>>74096474
i'm not into faggot utopian non implementable philosophies.
literally no country on earth is governed by lolbertarian principles.
>>74096489
>implying that we actually need the roads
>>74096624
>literally no country on earth is governed by lolbertarian principles.
Holy shit libertarianism BTFO
>>74096493
what about the poor people who cant afford security? you want them to get shot and roobed?
>>74096193
>>74096053
Not really. Fact is only whites(and asians) bothered to build functioning civilization, businesses that employ people, water and other utilities, etc.
America would still be getting a fuckton of unwanted immigration from beyond even without a single welfare program, because most of these animals don't enjoy a standard of living remotely close to ours
>>74096624
not an argument
>>74096717
Do you know what a condo is? I'm not rich, but because lots of people live together in a private building, we have a private agreement to pay money as a group for security and other services.
If someone still can't pay for that sort of thing, that's unfortunate but still isn't justification for using force to force others to pay for their security.
and last argument, pic related (all of these would be possilbe in an lolbertarian society)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law
>>74096887
>STILL doesn't understand libertarianism
It's a bunch of good goys advocating neoliberal globalism for the jews thinking they are le edgy cool rebels who understand economics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7fONYYTE7s
>>74095503
Corporations would be allowed to dump their shit anywhere they want
Including parks and any other public land closer than a dump
>>74096950
libertarianism=autism
http://reason.com/blog/2011/07/20/being-libertarian-may-cause-au
>>74096950
I do understand it very well. Its wishful thinking and mental masturbation.
>>74096887
>implying those don't exist with government
>implying government solves rather than perpetuates these problems
>>74096962
My support of volintarism isn't due to economics, but because it's my view that violence and theft are morally wrong. It would be illogical to make exceptions to that rule.
lelbetarianism was cool when I was like 12
>>74097034
>public land.
>Libertarianism
Pick one
Libertarians want to eliminate national parks and let them all be sold to the highest bidder
>>74095503
DUDE
BASIC SERVICES
LMAO
>>74097186
nice meme
>>74095503
roads
>>74097164
>you want to force me through violence to pay for your green space.
>>74095503
Government is a social institution freely instituted among people to solve problems with collective costs and benefits.
Just as homeowners will come together in a homeowners association to manage the affairs of the neighborhood, so do communities come together to manage their respective needs.
The proper concept of a "nation" is one that arises out of a distinct ethnic population. Serving the needs and customs of that particular compatable population unit
>>74097049
it's autism
>>74097096
>taxes are le evil violence
like I said
autism
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/16/all-about-libertarians-mystique-profile-increases/?page=all
Libertarianism provides a descriptive view of life, the prescriptive aspect will always fail, just like communism. No ideologue will ever understand that they can't encompass every aspect of life with their ideology because free will exists. Just like communism it requires that people forfeit their free will and submit to the ideology.
The only way to plan for this is pragmatism.
>>74097039
no you don't, as proven by your fucking retarded posts
>>74095503
no need
the ballot box refutes it for me
>>74096053
People would naturally immigrate to places where the currency is strong in retrospect to their own. That's why there's so many Chinese and Indians moving to countries like Canada, New Zealand and shit.
Crime would follow because there are more people. More people = more opportunities.
So yes, there would be packs of wild niggers flooding the country.
>>74097306
applied autism
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2007/04/libertarianism-is-applied-autism.html
>>74097280
>claiming I have autism isn't an argument against the ideas being put forward.
>>74097370
>blogspot
What fucking branch of liberalism you mongrel?
>>74097096
faggot
>>74097286
Libertarians don't want you to submit to anything. You can do whatever the fuck you want as long as it doesn't infringe on the life and liberty of others.
>>74097422
libertarianism not liberalism
>>74097427
Nice argument :^)
Well done
Handing over all our power to the rich. no thank you.
wait, are lolbertarian those sovereign citizens in youtube videos? or are those different kind of autists?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCozh_vbYdM
>>74097490
>because that's not what it's like now
>>74097371
>libertarians are too autistic to understand this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract
probably because
>The libertarian style of thinking can even verge, in extreme cases, on autism.
http://www.autismpolicyblog.com/2012/10/libertarians-and-autism.html
>>74097420
>mad
>>74097490
>doesn't know what libertarianism is.
>>74097489
i accomplished what i set out to do
>>74097429
naive
>You can do whatever the fuck you want
>as long as
And what if people break the condition? Who has the authority to ensure libertarianism is restored?
>>74097521
they're the same thing yes
notice how they can't handle social situations due to autism
they equate a police officer with a robber because "muh NAP"
>>74095946
Roads should be maintained by private companies, making a profit off of the pay-for-use system. Most major cities already use this system for parking, and it is achievable inexpensively using technology that we already use to prosecute traffic infractions.
The people paying the most for roads should be the same people that use them the most—transportation companies, like taxi outfits and trucking corporations, are a lot more responsible for the sorry state of highways than the working class families that are currently paying for their repairs. Putting infrastructure maintenance in private hands will move costs away from the taxpayer, make maintenance of existing infrastructure more efficient, and allow for revenue to be directed towards developing new infrastructure, alongside reducing tax burden and debt loads.
>>74097541
Checkmate, libertarianism BTFO by the social """contract"""
Because it's absolutely morally acceptable to impose contracts on the unborn in the mind of a leftist statist
>>74096493
> I own a gun
> a fucking leaf
Sure you do, buddy. Keep pushing for those open borders.
>>74097186
>what is local fire department
Anarcho-Capitalism isn't libertarianism u nit
>>74097541
social contract is not a contract
I am amazed that there is a libertarian party at all. It's so fucking autistic
>>74097693
what about roads leading to small villages, where there is no incentive for private companies to build them?
>>74096185
>its dilusional to take a concrete moral stance against violence and theft.
it is. as you take your high moral stance subhumans will have no moral qualms about putting you against a wall and shooting your privileged white ass. inshallah.
>>74097895
>implying this is a bad thing
>>74096886
> we pay collectively for security
> what are police?
keep the laughs coming, lolbertarians never let me down.
>>74097693
>Roads should be maintained by private companies,
congrats you just created a land monopoly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_monopoly
enjoy your monopoly price gouging you fucking moron.
There's a reason public goods should be free to aces, it's to avoid the monopolies libertarians want to implement.
>>74097773
>>74097889
>so evil to expect people to contribute to society
like I said
pure, unbridled autism
>>74097942
Not an arguement
>>74097993
>You don't agree with me therefore you have autism
Pure, unbridled stupidity on your part.
>I should have a right to take from you by force to pay for what I think is right
>Governments have better knowledge over how my money should be spent than I do
>>74097913
>small villages
>>74098032
>not an argument
uummm.....
>>74097895
>>74098128
>contributing to society is stealing
>having a nice society is bad
this is a fun article
>Have you ever found yourself exasperatingly embroiled in a political argument with a "libertarian" and felt like you were trying to reason a political Asperger's aflictee out of his "intense focus" on an idea that had captured his one-track interest? Well, perhaps your mind's slightly sarcastic interpretation of your exasperating interaction was actually cluing you into an authentic insight about libertarians and the psychology underlying their ideology. There's even a scientific study that suggests that this may be the case.
>To begin with, there's the almost autistic individualism that libertarian philosophy frames in its own lofty political terms. That is, libertarian thought verges on advocating a form of society very much along the lines of the "one-sided" and "self-centered" social nature of Aspies. Yes, as anyone familiar with the condition would observe here, those with Asperger's aren't individualistic in a technically autistic sense, i.e. they're not asocially withdrawn. But they do have a style of social interaction that's very much on the autistic spectrum, and that tends to define them as "individualistic in outlook" and given to a "lack of interest in socialization". It's this kind of autistic individuality that libertarianism can easily be seen as ideologically enshrining, in the form of its tenet of "self-ownership", and its glorification of every-man-for-himself free-marketarian economics and its cornerstone principle of self-interest.
http://www.debate.org/forums/Society/topic/13228/
>>74097979
LOL this made me laugh. But I think that Libertarian does have a point, in the sense that all those people living together CHOSE to do that. They're not being forced by the Government to do so.
So a community who doesn't want to pay for those services doesn't have to, and if they want, they can.
Open borders
>>74097835
Shouldn't you be happy that more people outside the US are getting guns?
>>74098135
I know right? Fucking Croatia Hahahaha
>>74098233
Not an arguement
>>74098135
how is this funny retard? Croatia is low populated and has many smaller towns and villages, which are not that much traveled and there would be no incentive for private companies to build roads and infrastructure.
>>74098237
>And, moreover, contrary to their professed belief in freedom, libertarians yearn to impose this self-centered orientation & orthodoxy on the rest of us, by promoting capitalism in its most antisocially individualistic, Darwinianly competitive form. Quite like political Aspies, libertarians first superimpose their own social way of being in the world on their thinking about society, and the next move of course is to go from superimposing to imposing. The sociopolitical thinking that feels so right to the liberpergerarian, to coin an awkward term, feels like it would be right and best for society as a whole. Naturally enough then, the liberpergerarian becomes a proponent, often a utopian and zealous one, of ideologically purifying our current mixed form of capitalism and visiting a more inhumanely selfist system upon his neighbor.
>Now then, the possible painful human consequences of creating a socioeconomic order based to such an extreme extent on individualism perhaps doesn't adequately register with libertarians because of another hallmark Asperger's trait. I'm referring to the Aspie's distinctive deficit in the empathy department. An empathy deficit, does this sound at all like something that's characteristic of libertarianism and its adherents? That was a rhetorical question, by the way.
>>74098379
>Libertarian philosophy of course often places no emphasis or value on the qualities of empathy and social compassion at all. In its most extreme version it even explicitly denounces such touchy-feely ethical qualities. Predictably, it thoroughly intellectualizes this with some of its key social concepts and its free-marketarian economics. But this is all really quite a lot of ideological self-justification of unfeeling self-centeredness. Libertarians can try as they may, but the leave-everyone-to-his-own-devices-and-to-the-winners-go-all-and-the-losers-can-die-and-decrease-the-surplus-population ethos of the their not so dear movement certainly bespeaks a lack of empathy. A veritably clinical lack of empathy, one that is yet another nail in the diagnosis of libertarianism as politicized Asperger's.
>>74096389
>self defense
>violation of nap
>>74096060
>minimal government regulation?
>this is somehow bad
t. statist
>>74098420
lol
this is some retarded ass shit
>>74098420
>the ideological ire of staunch liberpergerarians is certainly raised pretty readily when someone challenges the rationalistic bona fides of their beliefs. But what they have even less tolerance for is anything that falls short of their beau ideal of pristine and untainted-by-any-hint-of-interventionism capitalism. Their priggish perfectionism is full-on when it comes to upholding the integrity and inviolateness of their overesteemed "free market". And anyone who doesn't recognize and fall prostrate before the elegance of "free-market" theory is deemed to be a dolt worthy of unrestrained derision.
>>74098537
>>74098482
seems accurate to me
>The liberpergerarian's lack of empathy, combined with this cocksureness about the superiority of his own ideological reasoning, equals a cold-bloodedly doctrinarian bent of mind that's chillingly capable of abolishing a social safety net that millions of people in need depend on, and allowing the human chips to fall wherever they may in the ferally dog-eat-dog system of pure capitalism that his philosophy touts. Which is to say that liberpergerarians have the very real potential to become the sort of lethally perfectionistic true believers that the Bolsheviks or the Khmer Rouge were. The implementation of their remorselessly quixotic politico-economic theories could indeed have genocidal-scale fallout for the poor, but their Asperger's prevents them from compassionately and morally appreciating this.
>>74098365
i know it isn't. that's why i pointed it out
>>74095503
listen up faggots
https://youtu.be/t9UA9c_Xt_U?t=2696
the goods from 44:56 - 53:00
>>74097993
>enjoy your monopoly price gouging you fucking moron.
You mean like the taxes we pay to maintain roads now which are significantly higher than the should be?
>we need to stop monopolies
>by giving the state monopoly
>>74098420
>libertarians = sociopaths
makes sense
>>74098558
>>74098420
>>74098379
>>74098237
this is funny but sjw jew bullshit, diagnosing political enemies with mentall illness
lolbertardianism is an understandable attempt to save a sick society when the correct solution is not to mold the shit into something resenbling something good but to burn the broken world down and reshape the ashes into something genuinely good
>>74098672
>muh evul state monopoly
the state is controlled by elected representatives
>>74098645
Not an arguement
>>74097913
I said maintenance, not planning. In an ideal, rivers of lemonade libertarian paradise, infrastructure planning could be decided by committee or something, but in the real world the current system of relying on government works, and I live in the real world myself.
So, what I'm suggesting: government plans infrastructure, hires private construction company to build it, then sells stewardship of that infrastructure to the same private companies that built them. Those private companies then maintain the road on their own dime, and fine the necessary amount of pennies per vehicle to turn a profit. Maybe small cars that have less of an impact on infrastructure could be charged less, that'd be for the companies to decide.
And let me be clear, that plan I'm suggesting above? All of it except the last step is already being done. Construction and maintenance of infrastructure is already being contracted out to private companies. All I'm saying is that we should cut out the middleman and have the companies that do all of the work collect the revenue directly, rather than taking it from the state through taxes. That way the people paying the most for road maintenance are those who make it the most necessary, instead of everyone who works for a living and has to pay taxes. It's a very practical, equitable, common sense, and libertarian idea.
>>74095503
The NAP is a spook
>>74098736
>the state is controlled by elected representatives
The state is less than 10% elected the rest are appointed bureaucracy of which includes all of those in charge of the roads.
>>74098713
western society is sick because it's full of kikes and non whites not because le evil government is out to get you
>>74097993
>you just created a land monopoly
See,
>>74098758
>>74098801
Who are appointed by the representatives
welcome to a republic
>>74098736
and the free market is controlled by the entire people
>>74096053
Why do niggers go to nice neighborhoods to steal?
>>74098810
i agree
>>74097913
Back to irrelvalency with you. Libertarianism isn't equal to anarchy. It's more akin to minimalism. In America at the federal level, it's on the wavelength of giving states more power over social issues, lower/minimal taxes, enforcement of the constitution, the ridding of extensive social programs, etc.
It is the most pragmatic in terms of growth and development .
>>74098852
>>74098862
no since once private owners own all land (with a land monopoly) you get feudalism again
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_monopoly
Reminder that all libertarians result in ancaps and ancaps are just feudalists
congrats you're a serf now, have fun idiots.
>>74096645
>this much damage control
Are you joking? How would you transport goods and services to people?
>>74096389
>uninformed retard comparing people to uninformed retards
irony
>>74098980
>implying that the roads are the only means of transportation
>>74098976
>no since once private owners own all land
I never said that. The road is still public access, but its maintenance is the duty of a private company, contracted to that role by government. It's almost identical to the current system.
Did you read my post at all?
>>74096645
>>74099051
You're a moron.
Every form of infrastructure, roads or whatever else, could be paid for in the method I've just suggested, while still retaining public access.
>>74095503
Even without corporate monopoly, you're essentially advocating property monopoly which is first come first serve.
Just look at what happened to Russia after the Soviet Union fell if you want to see the result.
>>74098856
Who have absolutely zero accountability.
>complains about theory vs reality
>is saying that our current form of government is accountable to the people because over 90% of it is selected by representatives
Protip
This guy was elected because his name was first on the ballot.
Also link related
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9pMkRtrAtpg
In a lolbertardian utopia, what stops me from forming my own vigilante gang and massacring weak, defenseless weebs en masse? Checkmate, theists.
>>74099324
police. fuck off third world retard.
>>74098976
>no since once private owners own all land (with a land monopoly) you get feudalism again
I'll take things that have never ever happened in real life for 1000
>>74099324
>In a lolbertardian utopia, what stops me from forming my own vigilante gang and massacring weak, defenseless weebs en masse?
The police. Probably not the weebs themselves because they're so weak and defenceless.
What you're thinking of isn't libertarianism, it's anarcho-capitalism.
>>74098985
fucking aspie, I was making a joke. why are all lolbetarians autists? I feel like I'm on /g
>>74099385
>police in a lolbertardian society
Speaking of third world, that's exactly what your ideal country is.
>>74095503
moralless kike tool to fool stupid goyim
Jews love making systems where they can thrive. Of course it has to be off the back of the goy since they are so few in population.
>>74098976
And you aren't a feudalist? A huge government owns all the land and let's his serfs work on the land for protection and payment. He owns huge reserves for his own personal use. With dynasties like the Bush and the Clintons. The worst part is that our Dynastic lords are taxing us like crazy and sending us to die for their wars and being incompetent at it.
Libertarianism allows us to become our very own personal feud a lords instead of some singly huge centralized feudal system.
>>74095503
Niggers can vote
>>74099051
so what do they fucking airlift in that shit? when they can't afford roads? bring the gas they need in on foot?
there's a reason people have been paying taxes so the government can build roads since the fucking romans were around, it's just easier that way
you really are fucking retarded
>>74099324
Fun fact
Private police forces have meet resounding success in Detroit where the government has all but refused to operate because they pissed all the police's funds for paychecks and pensions away.
And not just in rich neighborhoods in extremely poor ones as well.
>>74096193
are you retarded? you are in fact an african or jew.
* hey whitey despite open borders, as long as we dont have any welfare and only jobs they the foreigners will never come here! *
Why is is that whenever someone brings up the fact that corporations are just as evil as governments, lolbertarians always pretend that the free market will magically prevent corporations from being abusive?
>>74095503
it's apathetic
>>74099446
It would be more like a mad max scenario or wild west.
>>74099128
>The road is still public access, but its maintenance is the duty of a private company,
If you accept roads should be public goods why not infrastructure and defense?
At some point public goods and service are necessary for the sake of convenience and feasibility. Are you going to buy your own F-16 for the military?
>>74099303
More accountability than the feudalist monarchistic landlords you want to replace them with
>>74099401
Feudalism
>>74099495
>libertarians think democracy=feudalism
you can't make this shit up
And yes things have gotten "worse" over the past 40 years because idiots like you bought into the neoliberal "government is evil let banks run everything" meme.
libertarians aren't good goys, they're best goys.
>>74099446
Somalia is a failed Socialist state.
Or rather a successful one since Marx did claim it would eventually wither away into a state of anarchy: ^)
>>74095503
All liberal variants believe man is born equal. All liberal vaiants will fail.
>>74099446
Somalia is a perfect example of socialism. Suffering is a socialist paradise.
>>74099511
STFU racist
>>74097913
Why don't the villagers take care of their own roads? The state wasn't taking care of that shit in the olden times either.
>>74099446
>police in a lolbertardian society
yes. exactly. go study instead of sucking albanian cock
>>74099609
Somalia is full of niggers
you could give them all copies of Wealth of Nations and nothing would change, they would eat the books and then rape each other.
>>74095883
lol
>>74099559
You're pathetic.
>>74099324
Basically civilian militias and assault rifles in every home. You'd have to pay veeery much money to every of your thugs and sooner or later people would organize to wipe you out when you go attack anyone. That or the private security agencies would detain/shot you and your people and take you to the private court for you to be judged and take a decision about what to do with you.
Questions like "who decides which private court both parties go to" or "what if X happens" would require you to do your own research, since they have been answered for so long.
>>74097671
>OP never responded to this
TOP KEK
>>74099719
how the fuck would you do this? how would you even get the land for the roads without government force?
>>74099563
No it would quickly morph into feudalism/monarchism again
order would quickly be restored just not how libertarians want it.
Their autistic voluntary land will never exist it will just get replaced with another state run by oligarchs.
>>74099556
since when were libertarians pro-business you retarded taco nigger? the people in government and business are the same, but the main difference is that GM can't send a policeman to your house.
>>74099795
The invisible hand its the state
>>74099608
>More accountability than the feudalist monarchistic landlords you want to replace them with
Not at all
The same people have been in power in the unelected bureaucracy for 40 years and have killed millions of people throughout the world.
They maintain this power through taxation.
Which doesn't exist with private companies which operate on an entirely volunteer model. Private business is much more Democratic than what we have now.
> Feudalism
Is government where the State is run by a king and Lords own everything.
It isn't capitalistic in any sense of the word.
> And yes things have gotten "worse" over the past 40 years because idiots like you bought into the neoliberal "government is evil let banks run everything" meme.
The government has only gained power in every facet of existence over the last 40 years you hack
>>74099444
If a company's failures result in it going out of business, it should go out of business. Bailouts are the least libertarian thing there is, and while welfare for the poor might have empathetic grounds to defend it, welfare for big banks does not.
I'm also going to note that you didn't respond to my refutation of your point on roads. Would you agree that pay-for-use is a good system, then?
>>74099446
>libertarians don't believe in police
Incorrect. Look up "minarchism". What you're saying is akin to claiming that a German wants to invade France because he waved the German flag and said, "Yay Deutschland". Don't be so relentlessly absolutist.
>>74096624
>the usa during its most prosperous years
>forgetting something
all this not an argument, i cant take it
>>74098910
Because those neighborhoods are usually full of gun-hating leftists.
They don't come into my neighborhood to steal, that's for sure.
>>74099859
>since when were libertarians pro-business you retarded taco nigger?
where did I claim that they were you illiterate?
>>74099833
by force i mean something like eminent domain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain
>>74099840
yeah, I guess the fastest ones to form a big military and overwhelm others would take over
>>74099795
Enjoy your Sharia
>>74099915
>The same people have been in power in the unelected bureaucracy for 40 years and have killed millions of people throughout the world.
And yet they still don't have the level of control monarchs will have in your "ideal" system
>It isn't capitalistic in any sense of the word.
Monarchism and oligarchy is the result of your dumb ancap ideology
>>74096962
>there was a magical time where all were financially equal
nice
fairy tale
lad
>>74096193
That's a hot spear chucker!!
>>74095503
MUH ROADS
>>74099833
Negotiate with the landowners.
>>74099444
Banks did self regulate up until the Clinton administration started to force them to give out retarded mortgages to people that had no business getting mortgages and threatened banks that didn't meet the governments quotas with lawsuits for being "racist".
https://youtu.be/lvUDVyySzQo
Ill just leave this here.
Enjoy, and reminder: the alt right is secular authoritarian right. Libertarianism was bred from a philosophy that values blindness towards race over objectivity.
>>74100020
you implied that libertarians had a bias towards business. now how exactly are businesses going to abuse their customers?
>>74098795
Whos that?
>>74100083
what if they dont sell or ask 3 times the market value??
wwwwould you use FORCE??
>>74098635
lack of government enforced empathy != no empathy
>>74097693
>need to leave my house to travel to the only grocer in town that still sells food, after their paid mercenaries murdered all the other vendors
>gather up a wagon full of small trinkets, iron tools, and my daughters to use as trade since money has been decentralized and is no longer backed by a central bank
>cross seventeen private roads, enforced by armed men, each collecting their own "tolls" in the form of some of my goods or a free ride on my daughter
>four days travel I finally arrive at the market
>my daughter is worth a tenth of what she was due to "tolls" as used goods
>I trade her for only a few weeks of meager rations, which I can't negotiate because they have more money and power than I do
>I have no money or daughters to trade for tolls on the private roads back so I try to go off-road to avoid the fees
>get caught by raiders in the woods who quickly overpower a lone traveler with nothing more than a milsurp rifle, steal all of my food, and rape me for good measure
AT LEAST I GET TO LIVE LIKE A FREE MAN AND DON'T HAVE TO PAY ANY FUCKING TAXES!
>>74095503
The state has already been invented. Therefore, it exists.
Libertarians are just edgy modern day Luddites.
>>74100057
>And yet they still don't have the level of control monarchs will have in your "ideal" system
>if I keep making up these situations that have never happened ever it will make my argument fact
No
> Monarchism and oligarchy is the result of your dumb ancap ideology
libertarianism =/=anarchy
We live in an oligarchy thanks to progressives demanding ever increasing state power
The government already owns directly nearly half of the nation's economy and controls almost everything in the economy.
Feudalism is already here and it isn't the fault of libertarians.
Hell libertarians have been warning of this situation since Bastiat
The Republican establishment is using you in order to slow down the only credible threat to their existence. Get real son.
>>74100137
>you implied that libertarians had a bias towards business
no, I implied that libertarians place too much faith in the free market's ability to prevent abuse by corporations. try getting some reading comprehension sometime
>>74100274
>The state has already been invented. Therefore, it exists.
how is that relevant
>>74100418
>abuse by corporations
such as?
>>74100265
purposefully destroying all government systems and public goods in order to create chaos based on your autistic ideology = lack of empathy
>>74100388
Feudalism isn't "made up"
>libertarianism =/=anarchy
True
It turns into oligarchy and monarchy
>>74100418
As opposed to the very real abuse done by the state just in the name of "protecting" us.
>>74099608
Why don't you explain why you strawman democracy=feudalism?
Because quite frankly you're using the same argument when strawmanning libertarianism=feudalism.
I'm sure you'd even equate all job providers as some sort of feudalist system. You're entire argument relies on libertarianism=anarchy and faulty unsubstained assumptions on what libertarianism will lead to.
>>74099608
>If you accept roads should be public goods why not infrastructure and defence?
Well, roads /are/ infrastructure, so obviously I'm with you there. I would also agree that defence should be in government hands, as well as enforcement of the law.
>At some point public goods and service are necessary for the sake of convenience and feasibility.
Yes, absolutely. What I'm saying is that public infrastructure doesn't necessarily need to be publicly funded through taxes; it can be funded on a pay-for-use model, with stewardship in private hands.
Fuck banks. Most of them should have went out of business years ago, and would have if not for government intervention.
Side-note: Elizabeth Warren, that far-left Democrat that has been suggested as Hillary's possible running mate and has been jutting into the presidential election a lot recently? She was the chair of the panel to oversee the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, back in '08. She wasn't just a passive bystander allowing the bailouts to happen, she was more or less the one signing the cheques. Hopefully if she does become Hillary's running mate that point can turned into an election issue.
>>74100209
Why do they have to sell it? They can't do much with their lands either if they don't have any roads there and you can offer to maintain that shit for free if he lets you build your shitty little village road at the edge of his lands, or something.
>>74100533
democracy gives you poltiical representation and private ownership as well as access to public goods and services
your libertarian "anarchy" creates an oligarchy of land holders who now own everything, essentially feudalism
>>74100418
>libertarians place too much faith in the free market's ability to prevent abuse by corporations
What kind of abuse, and who is being abused? What exactly are you contending here to be a failure of the market?
>>74095503
People aren't naturally rational beings.
>>74100517
>Feudalism isn't "made up"
Is a statist system of government and has nothing to do with capitalistic ideals which work as a massive defense against consolidation of land and power.
Which has been demonstrated over and over again in history.
Except of course when Marxist retards conflate mercantilism with lassiez faire systems and blame control by the state on private systems
>>74100597
yes, thats true. but once they know your road has to go over their lands, they become selfish and want to profit from it.
thats why governments have Eminent domain
>Eminent domain is the power of a state or a national government to take private property for public use.
>>74095503
imagine the bantz if huntsman ran against trump today
>im at 43% and you are at 13% man you need to ketchup
>Mr huntsman you sit their and insult me but your poll numbers are tanking its time you ketchup with me
>Huntsman you are so slow you need to speaking directly into the mike and ketchup
eventually trump would just start calling him mr ketchup
>>74095503
Because it only cares about the freedoms of its friends and suppres those of its enemies.
If I have to be under a dictatorship I'd rather be under a honest one.
>>74095503
IMMIGRATION
>>74100551
> it can be funded on a pay-for-use model,
That's regressive taxation where the entire tax burden is put on the working class, it's just as bad as social security.
> and would have if not for government intervention.
I agree
>She wasn't just a passive bystander allowing the bailouts to happen, she was more or less the one signing the cheques
That's why I think the people assuming she would be a good pick to court Bernouts are wrong.
Warren is shit, but pretends not to be. She's the fakest progressive on earth epitomized by her pretending to be an Indian.
>>74100811
>Is a statist system of government
It's what results from ownership of all land by private individuals which is what ancaps suggest.
>>74100272
Where did this perception come from that Libertarians want to turn the world into Fallout? The military and judiciary can and should both continue to exist and in roughly their current form. The Pauls and Johnsons of the world do not and have never suggested that. "Government should be smaller" is not the same as "government should not exist". There are a lot of things wherein retaining the current system is the best course of action.
>>74100527
>As opposed to the very real abuse done by the state just in the name of "protecting" us.
nicely memed, but I never defended the state's abuse
>>74100487
Disposing of toxic waste in manners that can harm both humans and the environment, to name one example.
>>74100622
And how exactly would they own my property?/how exactly would they take everyone's private property?
What historical examples could you provide on this transition or is only your assumption.
Explain how democracy vanishes in libertarianism.
I'll hear you out with these simple questions.
>>74100272
>>74100272
libertarianism doesnt mean no government and no taxes dumbass
>>74098135
>>74098315
There are plenty of villages in rural Midwestern states.
>>74100671
He thinks monopolies are caused by companies instead of governments
>>74101193
>And how exactly would they own my property?
Once you own land you effectively own everything on the land
acting out against the land owners and not giving them everything you own is "aggression"
>>74100897
>That's regressive taxation where the entire tax burden is put on the working class
Well, it isn't taxation at all, so it can't be regressive taxation. And the working class are not the ones making the greatest use of road today. Most people drive to work and back and that's about the most they drive on a daily basis. The biggest users of roads are transportation companies with hundreds of vehicles that never stop using roads—especially guilty are trucking companies, whose semis loaded with cargo also put the greatest strain on the roads they're using. Pay-for-use would result in the working class paying less to finance infrastructure maintenance, not more. It also just makes logical sense; if you don't drive at all, don't even own a car or a driving license, it's ridiculous for you to be paying for road maintenance. The current system amounts to taxpayer subsidization of the transportation industry.
>>74101372
It's a pretty funny line of thinking when you see all the federal monopolies that they try to defend and justify.
>>74101173
>Disposing of toxic waste in manners that can harm both humans and the environment,
libertarians believe in government involvement in that though, as it harms third parties.
https://youtu.be/BPnJHfiFWJw
>>74096047
not an argument
>>74095503
>>74101703
>making greatest use of road
*roads
>>74101682
How would they come to own all of this land in the first place, though, is what he's asking. In order for a transaction to take place, both parties need to consent. If I own a house on a plot of property and I don't want to lose my house, I don't sell the plot.
>>74101703
It's a government charging a fee on the working class that fall disproportionately on them
It's just as much a "pyramid scheme" as social security where a billionaire ends up paying the same amount as a minimum wage worker.
>>74101826
>How would they come to own all of this land in the first place,
All land is privately owned by default making every land owner effectively his own sovereign (government) who decides the rules.
He can essentially decide who lives and who dies by his whim especially since ht serfs living on his land effectively have no political representation.
>>74096060
Who said open borders?
Government function is still to protect peace and safety, and controlling who enters the country is very important even in the libertarian times.
The Political Spectrum, according to /pol/
>Anarchism (The French Revolution)
>Libertarianism (The Founding Fathers)
>Conservatism (Nostalgiafags circlejerking on a indonesian imageboard about how society should revert back to the good ol' days)
>Progressivism (The world now)
>Socialism (Sweden, France and Germany)
>Communism (1984)
>>74095503
>muh open borders
>>74101851
>It's a government charging a fee
No. The company contracted to maintain the road is charging the fee.
>fee on the working class that fall disproportionately on them
It doesn't fall disproportionately on them. Most traffic volume outside of suburb-to-downtown is commercial, and it would be the companies that own a lot of vehicles that are never off the roads that pay the most under pay-for-use. The working class are paying a disproportionately large amount to finance infrastructure maintenance right now, with the current system. Pay-for-use is a way for them to pay less, and the companies that induce most of that maintenance to be the ones paying for it.
>>74101947
the modern world is globalism
and /pol/ is nationalism not conservatism
>>74102170
>globalism
what does this even mean
do you want to be like north korea
>>74101926
What serfs? Do you currently live on land owned by somebody else? Unless you live in an apartment or condo the answer is "no", and in those cases, your lease agreement (or rent or whatever) continues on as is. Once again: libertarianism doesn't mean "no government".
>>74100937
>because the state owned all the land suggesting that everything is private will lead to feudalism
>>74102163
> The company contracted to maintain the road is charging the fee.
It's the nature of the fee (regressive) that matters not the origin
>Most traffic volume outside of suburb-to-downtown is commercial,
That just increases cost of business and hurts society as a whole.
Providing cheap public goods is one of the jobs of modern government that needs to be funded either through progressive taxation or government deficits
>>74102263
>if you don't want to turn into Mexico or ship all your jobs to China you want to turn into North Korea
fuck off, kike
>>74101926
You didn't answer his question
You're assuming that magically all the land is already in the hands of a handful of people.
Which is a false assumption
>>74102400
>if you don't want to turn into Mexico
>being globalized means you have to have open borders
>ship all your jobs to China
>cheap goods are bad, restricting the consumers ability to buy what they want is good
>>74102296
>Do you currently live on land owned by somebody else?
I live in a country with political representation and government sovereignty
>>74102322
If the government is the sovereign entity then all land "isn't" private by default.
>>74102421
>You're assuming that magically all the land is already in the hands of a handful of people.
Sure go move to Siberia I guess
that sounds fun.
>>74102400
>Providing cheap public goods is one of the jobs of modern government that needs to be funded either through progressive taxation or government deficits
The government road system is already much more expensive than it would be wif it was privatized.
Puerto Rico saved their road system by privatizing it as the leaf is suggesting and Chile runs private roads and they're the best in South America.
Meanwhile we have crumbling infrastructure because the government can't/won't pay for it because they have little to no incentive to do so due to the way the government operates.
Libertarianism refuses to take a stand against moral degeneration and hedonism.
>>74102609
>If the government is the sovereign entity then all land "isn't" private by default
Which is feudalism where the government aka the king owned all the land.
Aka not private ownership of the land
Your feudalism comparison isn't valid
> Sure go move to Siberia I guess
>that sounds fun.
So now you resort to even lower quality shit post than your average roofucker
>>74102400
>Providing cheap public goods is one of the jobs of modern government that needs to be funded either through progressive taxation or government deficits
Transportation companies should be subsidized, then? Why not banks too? They're both providing a service to the public.
>>74102400
>>74102625
This is also an important point. I'm not suggesting a crazy new idea here, this is something that has already been implemented in a lot of jurisdictions, and is how the parking part of driving works /everywhere/. Pay-for-use is the most sensible method of funding infrastructure maintenance, period.
>>74102720
Except it does.
Much of the degeneracy you see today is due to the government subsidizing it. Namely the breakdown of the family with government money replacing the father as an income earner.
College towns exist as they due thanks to government backed loans for students allowing any retard to go to college and the non degree "classes" that any retard who can nodd their head in agreement with the professor can pass exist as a means to soak up as much of this money as possible.
>>74102932
Not even to mention that cities such as Detroit had their first road systems funded when rich capitalist in the area got together and funded/planned them so they could do business.
The public got to use these roads for free as the traffic on them was made up for in the increased economic activity.
There are also examples in America and Europe of private roads being built because the government outright refused to and are paid for after their initial investment based on a voluntary honor toll system. Think patreon with donating to YouTube channels
>>74102581
>live in a cage like the east asians that manufacture your plastic shit in sweatshops
>I don't want good paid labor in my country I want low paid labor in other countries
>also I want low paid labor in this country as well so open those borders
all libertarians should be gassed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-PlqqK9B9Y
>>74102625
>much more expensive than it would be wif it was privatized.
A private land monopoly charges monopoly prices
try again
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_monopoly
>Meanwhile we have crumbling infrastructure because the government can't/won't pay for it
Because idiots (you) think government spending is le evil so they cut the budget
>>74102763
>Which is feudalism where the government aka the king owned all the land.
The people didn't have political representation in a monarchy.
> shit post
Your the one implying land in all habitable areas wouldn't be privately owned, which is itself a huge shitpost
>>74102789
>Transportation companies should be subsidized, then?
Lower transport costs benefit everyone.
>Why not banks too
Banks don't "need" subsidy they create money out of nothing.
>>74102932
>that has already been implemented in a lot of jurisdictions
And it's used to fuck over the working class.
This is the classic "libertarian falling for neoliberalism that fucks them over"
>>74095503
I can hire an assassin legally to kill you and your family.
I can also buy your whore of a daughter/wife/sister on an illicit auction site and fuck their corpses.
All legal under LOLbertarianism.
Don't you go complaining now! Don't you dare you naughty little boy.
>>74103308
>Lower transport costs benefit everyone, so transport costs should be subsidized.
Lower financial costs benefit everyone, too. As much or more so than lower transport costs. So again: if we're subsidizing the transportation industry, why not subsidize the finance industry?
>And it's used to fuck over the working class.
It isn't! It results in the working class paying substantially LESS. The current system of the working class subsidizing trucking companies is what's fucking them over. Pay-for-use fixes that.
>>74102932
That's basically taxation. Is it better just to tax me or spend hours of my life paying tolls every time I leave the city? I'd rather pay the tax and move on.
>>74103402
You're not using words according to their definitions.
Libertarianism doesn't mean no government and no laws. It isn't the same as anarchism. The comparisons you're making are like equating a German shouting "Yay Deutschland" with a national socialist. Not everything is one of two extremes.
>>74103308
>A private land monopoly charges monopoly prices
Yeah that's why the government massively over charges us you dense fuckstick
> The people didn't have political representation in a monarchy.
Yeah and the people don't have political representation in the old Soviet Union or North Korea but that doesn't make them not a government retard
> Your the one implying land in all habitable areas wouldn't be privately owned, which is itself a huge shitpost
Again just because all land is privately owned doesn't mean that it is one centralized body owning it.
You're assuming that it already is a select few people who would own land
Which is a false assumption.
> Lower transport costs benefit everyone.
Which would happen if the government stopped heavily taxing people for shitty roads that they don't even use the money they tax to maintain.
Again real world examples of road privatization being extremely successful and beneficial to the working class exist and aren't some made up scenario of "muh land monopoly"
>>74097521
>Call the police
>Sir, we are the police
>>74103537
>or spend hours of my life paying tolls every time I leave the city?
This is why pay-for-use eventually became abandoned, but because of technological innovation that problem no longer exists. We can use the same technology to implement pay-for-use that we currently use to handle traffic infractions. Tolls aren't necessary, or even efficient, in pay-for-use.
>>74103535
>So again: if we're subsidizing the transportation industry, why not subsidize the finance industry?
Roads are a public good, so everyone benefits from cheap access.
Loans (securities, financial services are private goods).
Look up false equivalence to find out more on why these aren't the same thing.
>It results in the working class paying substantially LESS.
It results the working class paying substantially more since there's not progressive taxation/deficit spending to shift the cost onto the government and the top percent that can afford it.
>>74103703
>Yeah that's why the government massively over charges
It's more because idiots (you) demand less progressive taxation and more regressive taxation to make things "fair" for billionaires.
>Yeah and the people don't have political representation in the old Soviet Union or North Korea
I'm not sure what your point is
are you defending communism?
>Again just because all land is privately owned doesn't mean that it is one centralized body owning it.
It essentially means feudalism is back, what all ancaps seem to want.
>Which would happen if the government stopped heavily taxing people for shitty roads
>heavily taxing
>roads
kek you've clearly never seen the federal budget.
It's sad how clueless libergtardians are whining and bitching about 2% of the budget.
ROADS
>>74101101
It's the NAP ancap autists ruining it for the rest.
It was so blatant how the mass media shafted Ron Paul. Even if lolbertarianism isn't infallible Ron was clearly a huge threat to the establishment
>>74103308
pretty much all modern, developed countries (capitalistic, communistic etc) went through a phase where most people worked in sweatshops - thats just what happens when you transition from an agrarian society to an industrialized society.
you should pay better attention in your history class kid
>>74103960
Roads are necessary to facilitate transportation of goods and services. Financial services are necessary as well. Both the transport industry and finance industry are necessities. The equivalence, therefore, isn't false. So why subsidize one and not the other?
>It results the working class paying substantially more since there's not progressive taxation/deficit spending to shift the cost onto the government and the top percent
Pay-for-use is the most progressive funding regime for infrastructure maintenance that is possible. Those that cannot afford to pay and contribute none of the damage, pay nothing. Those who can afford to pay and contribute all of the damage, pay everything. Pay-for-use is more progressive than any form of taxation.
human being are not perfectly rational agents and thus establishing a system of governance based on that crucial assumption is tantamount to ignoring the failures of the past when it came to that assumption and persevering with idealistic rhetoric regardless of whether it holds actual water or not.
>>74095946
>>74095503
Romans 13 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
>>74104315
>human beings are not perfectly rational agents
Nor are governments. The main contention of libertarianism is that, in general, the individual has a better idea of what is in his own interest than the state.
>>74098910
they actually don't for the most part
they stay in their own shitty neighborhoods because they're too short-sighted
also, guard-gated neighborhoods ftw + 2nd amendment
>>74095883
In a libertarian society the common welfare leach would have no policies to substain themselves thus would not look to move to that society. Even if you don't agree with libertarianism you can't ignore that aspect.
>>74104227
the west had the highest wages in the world during the industrial revolution, dipshit
Wages didn't go down until the "outsourcing to shitholes" craze
>>74104252
You clearly don't understand the difference between a private and a public good
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good
Pay to use infrastructure is the most retarded neoliberal idea in existence.
>>74099608
lol, shillery really said that? holy shit. that pandering.
>>74103960
>It's more because idiots (you) demand less progressive taxation and more regressive taxation to make things "fair" for billionaires.
That isn't why roads currently are so expensive moron.
> I'm not sure what your point is
>are you defending communism?
No I'm pointing out how fucking stupid you are for suggesting that because monarchy in the form of feudalism isn't government because "the people aren't represented".
> It essentially means feudalism is back, what all ancaps seem to want
No it doesn't
Again feudalism was a centralized state entity in the form of a king who owned all the land through the use of force.
> kek you've clearly never seen the federal budget.
>It's sad how clueless libergtardians are whining and bitching about 2% of the budget.
>the government massively over taxes us and uses said taxation on things other than things they are meant for including roads so that means that we aren't being over taxed and aren't over paying for roads
Again
Real world examples of privatized road systems exist and they are significantly cheaper for the users of said roads than what we have in the US and the " muh land monopoly " doesn't exist in these places.
> Roads are a public good, so everyone benefits from cheap access.
Which isn't being provided by government and their current land monopoly on roads.
>>74104579
>Pay to use infrastructure is the most retarded neoliberal idea in existence.
Should we get rid of it, then? Make parking free everywhere, paid for by taxes? According to you that would be more progressive.
>>74104315
what part of libertarianism requires everyone to be perfectly rational robots?
all it is is a system based on limited government and individual freedom up to the point where it hurts other people or property
>>74104488
>the individual has a better idea of what is in his own interest than the state
>what is the principle-agent problem
>I want a system of accountability but don't want the infrastructure needed to make sure that people can actually be held accountable
>inb4 the market will correct for any principle agent problem
guess what? It doesn't. Even under today's "leviathan" government the SEC has been neutered beyond control and anyone explicitly responsible for causing a financial meltdown has not been held accountable. Deregulating it even further would exacerbate the problem.
>>74095503
double irish and a dutch sandwich
>>74098910
Compare Metro Miami to South Beach with crime heat maps. Niggers and Spics are afraid of bridges.
>>74104771
More than anything else, your statement proves that you know jack shit about libertarianism. Libertarianism, in its current incarnation at least, legitimizes itself on the basis of neo-classical, laissez-faire economics, arguing using the same framework that wealth generation is most effectively created when deregulated as much as possible. The crux of neo-classical economics is homo economicus, or the assumption that people are perfectly rational agents and thus should be left to their own devices. Having one without the other is literally like having a pie without the crust.
LIBERTARIANS ARE SMELLY. ALSO THEIR WORLDVIEW IS CHILDISH BECAUSE IT IS UTOPIAN. DEAL WITH KIKES FIRST THEN WE'LL TALK YOU SMELLIES.
>>74104779
>anyone explicitly responsible for causing a financial meltdown has not been held accountable
Why would the government jail nearly all of HUD Bill Clinton George Bush and other high profile people that pushed the government regulations(yes the government forcing banks to give out loans they otherwise wouldn't have done on their own under the threat of putting them out of business is an increase in regulation) on lending standards that lead to the 08 crash?
Especially when they can just blame the banks themselves and cover up their own actions?
>>74104779
>I want a system of accountability but don't want the infrastructure needed to make sure that people can actually be held accountable
Which infrastructure are you referring to? I believe you may have made some assumptions about my beliefs that I never gave reason for you to assume.
>anyone explicitly responsible for causing a financial meltdown has not been held accountable
The United States federal government is responsible for the housing crisis and ensuing recession. This occurred through legislation that was intended to encourage home ownership, but, because of the law of unintended consequences, also injected massive volatility into the housing market. If any one person should be prosecuted for the Great Recession it is Bill Clinton.
