Thoughts on fracking?
well that skull is pretty spooky, so i think it's bad
>>74038577
It's pretty fracking awesome!
>>74038577
>Fracking Fluid
AKA: water.
I love how the person who made this thinks our tap water comes from some underground "water auqifers[sic]".
>>74038577
good for economy, bad for environnement.
Only suitable for desert and uninhabited areas.
>>74038894
In many places underground water wells and aquifers are a primary source of drinking water.
>>74038577
If you're gonna fuck up the local environment, why not just build MSRs and get way more energy.
>>74038577
natural gas is pretty cheap right now, so its a necessity but we should put more money in to find more cleaner and efficient methods of obtaining the energy
>>74038577
>>74038577
It's poisons agriculture water sources and then you eat it in your food stimulating the sickness industry profits.
Another words, it's good for the economy.
There are zero cases of fracking causing damage to any water table.
>>74039917
there are zero citations with your post which means zero chance of anyone listening to your shite.
>>74039853
This guy knows what's up.
>>74038577
It's bullshit.
>>74039974
How exactly would he go about proving a negative? If I do not provide a source there is no teapot in an orbit between Saturn and Jupiter, the logical thing to believe is that there is?
>>74038577
I did a large research project on fracking. To start with, your image is wrong as usually the depth that they pump the fracking fluid is so deep that there is virtually no chance of it reaching the ground water. Ground water is usually 100-200 meters down while the fracking depth is 2,000+ meters. The area where fracking fluid does leak into the ground water is at the primary start of drilling. But regulations require that concrete protectors be placed to prevent this from happening.
After scouring various studies and reports, it turns out that fracking is largely harmless for the environment WHEN IT IS DONE CORRECTLY. The problem is that companies make mistakes and spill their fracking fluid on the surface into streams and other bodies of surface water. Additionally they don't add enough concrete protective layers sometimes allowing leaks into groundwater.
All that shit you see where people claim fracking brings gas into drinking water is bogus. There is gas in their water, but that isn't the fault of fracking. In many places its always been like that.
However fracking still presents some problems. The main ones being that waste fluid from fracking is not always processed and disposed of correctly. Another is that companies are wasting water because they are pumping thousands of gallons underground where it doesn't really enter back into the surface water cycle. Also a study was done that found during disposal of waste fluid from fracking, tremors of 3-4 on the Richter scale can be caused. These are small earthquakes, but not the type that would cause property damage or anything serious.
TLDR: Fracking is fine, it just needs to be regulated like anything else to mitigate environmental concerns.
>>74040407
Some sources from my project
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/hydraulic-fracking1.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY34PQUiwOQ
https://www.propublica.org/special/hydraulic-fracturing-national
http://www2.epa.gov/hydraulicfracturing
http://naturalgas.org/overview/background/
http://www.oerb.com/?tabid=242
http://www.energyfromshale.org/hydraulic-fracturing/hydraulic-fracturing-fluid
http://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/what-chemicals-are-used
http://www.dangersoffracking.com/
http://energyindepth.org/national/how-anti-fracking-activists-deny-science-water-contamination/
http://www.desmogblog.com/2014/01/31/multiple-states-confirm-fracking-has-contaminated-groundwater
http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2013/03/12/how-much-water-it-takes-to-frack-a-well/
http://serc.carleton.edu/NAGTWorkshops/health/case_studies/hydrofracking_w.html
http://www.shakyground.org/
http://www.inglewoodoilfield.com/res/docs/102012study/Hydraulic%20Fracturing%20Study%20Inglewood%20Field10102012.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/cleanenergy/energy-and-you/affect/natural-gas.html
http://www.nationalfuelgas.com/natural_gas_environment.aspx
THE TOXICITY OF OUR CITY
OF OUR CITY
It's fine.
>>74040407
bullshit, there's tons of 2000 feet fracking wells around here. The drinking water wells are around 1000 feet.
Look at any ground water map and you can see fracking wells destroying agriculture around them.
>>74038577
I think fracking is a pretty cool guy, eh pays my bills and doesn't afraid of anything.
People in Oklahoma says it causes quakes.
>>74040575
NEW, WHAT DO YOU OWN THE WORLD?
>>74040662
Link us up, scotty.
>>74040662
Also, I should know because I'm trying to buy some land for farming right now. Those fracking wells just destroys prime farm lands...
>>74040729
http://www2.twdb.texas.gov/apps/WaterDataInteractive/GroundwaterDataViewer/?map=sdr
>>74040662
>>74040752
>His sources: 17
>Your sources: 0
>His/Your source ratio: Inf
>>74038577
>seep up
How?
>>74040407
I have a friend who worked on an oil rig.
He was apart of the crew that took care of the hazardous materials / protected the site. No one gave a single fuck about the safety of the environment.
He'd lay these huge pieces of plastic down and people wouldn't properly seal the seams so any leakage would just go straight into the ground.
>>74040817
See the link I've given. It's really sad, with fracking wells around, you can only raise cattles, no farming possible.
>>74038577
Hippies love fracking because it comes from tens of millions of years of nature. If Mother Gaia did not want us to frack, she would not have granted us with the ability.
>>74040820
Normal earth movement causes the water sort of to slush up very, very, very slowly, if it doesn't get trapped in a porous rock or get stopped by layers of clay.
>>74040853
And herein lies the need for regulation. Its fine when its done right, but not okay when we let companies just do whatever the fuck they please.
>>74038577
>step 3
too bad that doesn't fucking happen
>>74039853
Pretty much this. There's thousands of feet of bedrock between where fracking happens and any freshwater aquifers of use.
What really pisses me off is that the natural gas you get from fracking is the main reason the US has reduced it's reliance on coal, which has reduced CO2 emissions, so the fucking hippies should be championing this. But noooooooooo. Some fucking bernout in Pennsylvania decided that there was shekels to be made by lying on camera and saying that water could be lit on fire because of fracking when the well that the water was coming from penetrated multiple coal beds, and now half the country wants to ban a technology that could keep modern society running until the next great leap in energy technology comes around.
Work with depleted gas reservoirs in the New Albany shale. Seems people's complaints about hydraulic fracturing are actually just complaints against drilling.
>>74040820
The water being pumped into the ground.
>>74038577
LOL FRAKIN IN BAD CUZZZZZ DA WATER SUPPLY DONE GIT DIRTY.
>>74040997
Worse, the well leaks over time, so ground water sinks down the well lowering the water table.
>>74038894
Fracking Fluid is't just water you shil
>>74040989
You mean like clean, efficient nuclear energy?
Let me know when they figure that one out will ya
>wew lad
>>74038894
We don't really know what is all in fracking fluid because businesses refuse to release a full list of chemicals. However I can tell you it's more than just water. I'd give you a $20 if you drank a glass of fracking fluid.
>>74041062
It's not just water.
>>74040795
Why did you just give me a map for water wells without any way to check their depths?
>>74041093
>>74039853
The most accurate picture depicting fracking ever. I'm a drilling engineer.
>>74038663
Underrated first comment/best comment combo. A rare Pepe for your otherwise forgotten blessed contribution.
>>74038577
some shit i saw in cnn is they say it causes earthquakes.
>>74041093
Just look at all that heavy metal, radioactive ground water in Texas. There's a reason Texas doesn't have much of an agriculture. The prime water source is poisoned...
>>74041149
Are you an idiot? All well depth is listed.
>>74040997
>>74040953
>Water pumped through ground is able to slush its way past solid bedrock so impermeable it doesn't let gas through
>>74041079
>Silly goy, don't you know that nuclear is bad?!
>Just look at the soviets back all those years ago, things haven't changed!
>Now be a good environmentally conscious taxpayer and buy these solar panels and fund my windmill scam!
>>74041166
Ohhhhhhh boy, you really got me with that graphic that lacks any source, I'm utterly destroyed.
>>74040662
You're not going to see vertical crossflow with negligible permeability.
>>74040853
Is that the fault of the technology or the company
>>74040443
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-07/documents/hf_es_erd_jun2015.pdf
here the EPA's summary on fracking if anyone's interested. It wasn't out when I made my project but it still mostly agrees with me
>>74041079
Another thing the hippies have ruined. Unless you're implying that modern nuclear power is unsafe.
>>74041119
90% is water, 9.5% is sand.
So of course this board has always been contrarian just for the sake of edginess, but this thread is just fucking hilarious. "Popular opinion says fracking is bad, well obviously fracking must be awesome!"
>>74041234
OK, let le rephrase so you get it through yout stupid skull: why did you give me a map with no way to search for depth?
Or you expect me to sit down and click every fucking one until I find on which is deeper than 250 feet?
>>74041272
Its part of my 17 sources I listed earlier :)
>>74041272
http://www.cuadrillaresources.com/what-we-do/hydraulic-fracturing/fracturing-fluid/
Different company but still.
>>74041333
The company AND the lack of a proper regulatory system and enforcement.
US states without the latter face more problems and contamination than those that do.
>>74041272
>http://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/what-chemicals-are-used
>>74041235
I think you need to read complete posts, nigger.
>>74041432
No, science says it's awesome. As the other fellow pointed out, you are essentially arguing that this large amount of gas should have seeped upwards if you think water will do the job.
>>74041432
Or one guy did a huge research project on it, explained the pros and cons, and then posted a bevy of sourced material.
You are a fucking shill.
>>74041432
Holy fucking shit, a fellow moderate/realist on /pol/. We're a rare breed, my brother. More rare than a non-proxy Vatican flag IP
>>74041344
>.5% additives with no source at all
>pump 100,000 gallons into the ground
>even bullshit sources ensures 500 gallons of toxic shit
>>74041439
The graphic itself has no sources, nigger. Just because YOU cite IT doesn't make it valid.
>>74038577
1. 99% of the fracking fluid is recovered, it does not stay in the ground
2. The fracking occurs in different rock strata to water deposits. The fact that the gas stays in the same rock strata to be extracted (which is why fracking works) shows that the fluid does not spread to different rock layers hundreds/thousands of metres away.
3.What """toxins""" are in the fracking fluid? The only """toxin""" is methanol, which naturally bio degrades after 2 days into harmless by-products.
>>74041601
Not really. Most of the time I just pretend to be a nazi.
>>74041333
ya, the point being, though, is that you can't expect people to do the right thing.
The technology doesn't really matter when the people utilizing it are complete retards
The world wouldn't be as fucked up as it is if people did what they were supposed to do.
I felt a fucking earthquake a few months back. They say it was caused by fracking
>>74041621
If it makes you feel any better we've been pumping far more acid than that into the ground for matrix acid jobs for over 100 years.
>>74041432
But the vast scientific consensus is that fracking is safe, and all the largest studies into the topic have shown this. The problem is news publications knowing it's a hot issue, so telling people 'There's this study that says fracking is bad, and they want to frack on your front lawn!' sells more than 'Fracking is safe says this 40,000 word paper.'
You only have to watch that documentary that started this whole mess to know the type of people who pushed the anti-fracking agenda. They're not scientists, they're were more concerned with making a documentary that would win them an Oscar over a documentary that was unbiased.
>>74041433
You truly are an idiot, just turn on the depth overlay.
>>74041640
What the hell does that even mean?
>Posted sauce
>Referenced sauce with picture
Jesus fucking Christ, you're a dense bastard. Do you want me to hold your hand and help you write it out in crayon?
>>74041588
>if it doesn't get trapped in a porous rock or get stopped by layers of clay.
Then why put this in if you weren't trying to explain how water can slush through impermeable rock formations? Why are you even independent?
>>74041640
>Posts a long list of credible sources
>nobody reads any of them
>uses one of the infographics on the sources since nobody read them
>YOU HAVE NO SOURCES NIGGER
kill yourself
>>74038577
stupid fucking idea
they have ZERO means of controlling if any gasses seep up through the cracks and into the watershed
>>74041432
lol, yup. But really, fracking mainly hurts farmers, and I think this board is mostly city folks.
>>74041809
How fucking big do you think these cracks are??
>>74038577
my friend is geologist, he says this is bullshit or anyway it would take hundred thousand years for harmful effects to kick in
>>74041852
Funny thing that most farmers don't give a shit about fracking but cityfolk libfags do.
>>74038577
Anti-frackers are as poorly-informed as anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers.
If it were so easy for stuff at that level to seep into ground water, why doesn't the gas and oil fracking is used to obtain do the same?
>>74041952
http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/news/california-farmers-band-together-fight-fracking
>>74041760
>not black carl.gif
cmon man
>>74038577
It's messing up my economy. Environmental issues are hugely overblown by the public, no different than how retards think nuclear is unsafe.
>>74041852
t.educated city folk who knows everything because he looked at a well-map twice cuz he wanted to be one of dem farmbois & wuz bying sum land 2 do cattlin with!
>>74038577
causes earthquakes where I live
>>74040853
I have a friend in fracking and he tells me shit like this all the time
>>74042039
t. Ahmed
>>74041986
>Californian farmers
>Californian
Oh no surely they're not libshits at all
>>74041986
>California
At any rate, it had literally nothing to do with the effects of fracking, it's just they were in a drought and fracking uses a lot of water.
My point still stands.
>>74041726
Ah, of course there is a depth overlay. It's not in the menu, or the side options or even in the second menu but it's there. Fuck off, I keep cliking and the only post 1k depth ones have been brackish water ones.
>>74041779
Because that right there says the exact opposite, you super nigger. Water can slosh upwards due to the movement of the rocks, but if it encounters those, it can't. By transitive property, because fracking is done below several layers of that, the water can't slush upward in that case. Nigger.
As a reservoir engineer I always enjoy reading these threads.
>>74041203
They're kinda close there.
90-100% of the water used in fracking generally flows back up the well in the months after, and the oil companies need to dispose of it, since the water that comes out is incredibly salty (much saltier than ocean water), and the main way of getting rid of it is injecting it deep underground. In some parts of the country (most notably Oklahoma) this has caused earthquakes. The largest I've heard about was a 5.7 magnitude quake, so they can get to a size that can be felt, but the majority are too small to be felt by a person. The USGS has some regulations about what to do in case of large-ish earthquakes (basically, shut down injection if they get too big).
>>74041621
Something like 99% of the fracking fluid is recovered, it doesn't stay in the ground.
Go through that list of additives and find me the ones that are """toxins""". They are all simple chemicals with ordinary everyday uses, like tablet salt, or that bio degrade quickly, like anti-freeze.
Anti-fracking is a meme from people who are either hippies who want to shut down all energy production from "fossil fuels", or people upset about land use and land use rights of a competing industry.
>>74042127
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/17/dont-allow-fracking-farmer-allowed-coal-methane-borehole
>>74038577
The only reason that liberals want to ban fracking is because it heavily affects oil company's profits. This hurts the republican war chest because the major detonators to republican candidates are oil the companys.
>>74040407
>Another is that companies are wasting water because they are pumping thousands of gallons underground where it doesn't really enter back into the surface water cycle.
I work in a natural gas processing plant. We get about 200 cubic meters or about 52,000 gallons of water a day as a byproduct of the natural gas.
A frack job might use a few thousand cubes in it's lifetime.
>>74042135
You need to go back to school to learn how to use the world wide web.
>>74040729
HOW DO YOU OWN DISORDER DISORDER
>>74042127
Which is what they literally said, funny enough. Nothing about contamination but the amount use.
>>74042138
Out of curiosity, what exactly do you fuckers do? Mechanical here. And don't use the normie description, I am curios what methods are involved and how you work out the solutions.
>>74038577
Frack wells are a thousand feet below ground water you dumbass.
>>74041173
can confirm
t. hydrogeologist
>>74041621
Believe it or not, the earth has a lot of extremely toxic shit in it already, yet we haven't all died. I don't think adding 500 barrels of various chemicals a mile underground is going to have any effect on us, and I can't comprehend why anyone thinks is will.
Just sic the EPA on anybody that tries to be lazy about it, problem solved.
>>74042359
NOW SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THE SACRED SILENCE!
>>74042420
Is that the study of how water affect geology or something?
>>74042127
An arguement like that, "who should get to use the water/land?" against fracking are legitimate.
Arguments that fracking is unsafe or bad for the environment are meme-tier
>>74042549
YOU WANTED TOO
>>74042255
>Allows fracking on farm
>Gets a lot of shit from townsfolk
>Gets "educated" about the risks of fracking
>Literally nothing happens to the farm but has a shitty experience because of people ostracizing him once they learn he allowed fracking
>Don't allow fracking guys!
>>74038577
if they read what their equipment is saying in the area they plan to do it in and properly pre-plan it is fine. if they don't do it right they should get a huge lawsuit and pay for damages and health problems they've caused.
>>74042372
To quote my professor from college, to get the most oil out of the ground for the cheapest price at the greatest profit.
So basically a shit ton of modeling, a lot of data compilation and feeding into programs (my company uses CMG).
Wait a minute some of you people actually drink the water that comes out of your sink?
>>74042268
Is the water produced from natural gas usable for agriculture?
>>74042127
>it's just they were in a drought and fracking uses a lot of water.
No it doesn't. The whole fracking industry in that state uses less than 250 acre feet of water a year.
>>74042650
How do you like CMG? How does it compare to the other software packages out there?
>>74042427
Chemophobia of neurotic women who vote m8
>>74038577
>Toxins
Well if you go by hippie bullshit just have some Tibetan green tea or something that "de-toxes" you
>>74040954
>Because regulation is always followed carefully and nobody ever tries to skirt the regs
Be realistic.
>>74042255
>"DON'T LET THEM DRILL ON YOUR LAND"
>"IT COULD HAVE SEEPED CHEMICALS ONTO MY LAND"
>"PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE IT SO I LOST FRIENDS"
>"PEOPLE WERE RUDE TO ME"
>"PEOPLE TOLD ME IT WOULD BE BAD"
So basically, he agreed to allow them to drill, a bunch of people were angry at him, other people started telling him stories and he decided it was a bad idea.
How is this even a news story?
>>74042002
Who the fuck is Carl?
>>74042695
Look, that's why the farmers grouped up to stop fracking. Whether they were right or not doesn't matter, what matters is they weren't grouping up because of some "water polluting" BS.
>>74039853
>>74039917
>>74041952
>>74041672
>>74042135
>>74041933
>>74041980
>there are no negative effects of fracking
https://youtu.be/NvJAKVnK4qM
The consequences of fracking are neither researched nor observed yet, yet we are doing it on a scale that we really shouldn't do with this little information.
That alone is enough reason to not allow it.
But it seems these companies are rushing to milk the whole thing as fast and as much as possible before it gets banned.
>>74038577
People act like water isn't treated to make it safe for consumption.
Anyone drinking directly from a well deserves to die
>>74040443
why are you trying to use facts instead of opinion? this is /pol/
why can't you just say "I think it's good based on that 10 second blurb on CNN" or "I think it's bad ..."
>>74042692
>Is the water produced from natural gas usable for agriculture?
If you wanted to spend the time to clean it, yeah it's water.
We just pump it down old wells, or into salt domes because it's cheaper.
To put it in perspective the Mackenzie River has an average flow of 9,900 cubic meters per second.
>>74042726
I've only used CMG and Eclipse. CMG is apparently cheaper (I didn't pay for it) but I think it's easier to use. One thing I don't like is when you output data you have limited options so for the most part you have to do a lot of neatening up in Excel. I'm fine reading the data in .txt format, but most people aren't.
>>74042571
Equally awesome but wrong song, mate.
>>74042650
Sounds fair enough.
>>74042885
Methane filled lakes and rivers are ancient stuff, mate. This is "power lines cause cancer" tier shit.
>>74042975
Don't know how you Canadians have it but many states force us to re-use the water. Obviously we treat it but it's hell to model.
>>74042875
And they are dishonest to the core given that farmers used 27 MILLION acre feet and they bitched at the oil and gas industry for using 214 fracking.
>>74038577
It's fine. Greens brainwashed people about it like they did nuclear energy.
>>74042127
Fraccing recycles their water you ignorant dumbshit.
And they call it "fluid" because its not 100% water- they mix it with other stuff like organic gel powder and sand.
>>74043119
>Don't know how you Canadians have it but many states force us to re-use the water. Obviously we treat it but it's hell to model.
The gas wells don't use the water so it's not reused it's just a byproduct.
In the SAGD operations Alberta requires 98% reuse of water. All it really does is drive of the cost of oil. The whole industry can't use enough water to put even a single mid sized farm to shame.
>>74043008
Interesting, thanks.
>>74038577
Only faggots and ignorant people who haven't done their homework hate it
>>74042885
And I suppose there's even one lick of evidence that this was caused by fracking.
>>74042888
Fracking's been around almost a hundred years, we have plenty of info and no one's rushing anything.
>>74041166
>methanol
yeah, not drinking that
The methane in water supplies thing always bugged me as I've never heard of the carbon isotope being investigated.
Thermogenic methane is usually C-13 and biogenic methane is usually C-14. If the gas was tested then it could be reasonably determined if it was fugitive gas migrating around the casing (coupled with a cement bond log) or just bacteria in an aquifer.
>>74043311
See much CHOPS work up there? I know people have been bitching about it.
>>74042885
>natural gas bubbling to the surface is unprecedented!
>>74043118
>some rivers contain methane
>therefore methane is healthy for all river ecosystems even when it never existed there pre-fracking
Panama pls
>>74043377
No methane bubbling in river pre-fracking.
Fracking begins -> methane bubbles
>>74043551
>didn't exist there pre-fracking
>every single other case has been shown to not be fracking but this one it is
>also, ignore the previous Era of shallow gas drilling, that doesn't tell u anything about the nature of this river
>>74038894
You're an idiot. Most people I grew up with got their water from wells you fucking nut.
Health risks aside, if someone buys or rents some land to frack on, they can legally crack the shale from neighboring properties and take their natural has as welll. Like stretching a straw across the table and drinking someone elses milkshake.
>>74038663
Anon, my fucking sides. Seriously, I shouldn't be laughing this hard, but I am.
>>74042549
>Is that the study of how water affect geology or something?
yeah in a sense. in my case, i do structural hydrogeology. most of my day is spent looking for faults or joints in aquitards.
>>74043744
As long as they have the sub surface rights to do so. You can't just drill willy nilly without getting approval from either the state or federal government depending on where you're drilling.
Really comes down to the lease and the royalty and allocation procedure for how the money gets split.
>>74043744
No, they can't drill or fracture beneath somebody else's property. On the other hand they still can still drain hydrocarbon from a neighbor's property. Offset drilling rule, it's an established law.
>>74043981
Shale does not drain much if at all. The permeability is too low. Almost all the gas produced from a shale well comes from just a few feet from the wellbore/fractures.
>>74038577
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyhWWG9N3qs
watch it
Fracking is a meme it doesn't make sense economically it costs so much and with barrel of oil hovering at $45 fracking companies lose money on every barrel they make
>>74044396
Juden, pls go. That's like saying efficient jet engines are a meme because fuel might get cheaper.
>>74044396
Israel fracks you schmuck
>>74044396
>cheap energy is bad for the economy
wew lad
The image really isn't to scale, on average an aquifer is going to be couple hundred feet underground, vs 6000 ft or so for oil deposits
>>74042093
>>74042127
rural CA (including the Central Valley where the bulk of agriculture happens) are actually heavily GOP. They're just heavily outnumbered by those in LA/BayArea
>>74041344
>Found the globalist shill
>>74042807
I am. Humans will always threaten the environment, no matter what we do. I'm not gonna shed any tears over a little damage as long as regulation prevents big damage. If you're so concerned about the environment, do the earth a favor and kill yourself.
