To all Theistfags in here.
Daily reminder that your God will NEVER be accepted in an educated, scientifically based society without evidence of it's existence.
You claim he exists since you believe with all of your soul that he does, so you have the burden of proof.
Until there is proof of a God existing aside from unregistered 'witnesses', ancient and contradictary quotes and baseless "miracles" you will be considered a fool by anyone in the real world.
Please consider ,the fact that is God knows your future you have virtually no free will and that God is no more than a serial murderer that IF it existed it doesn't deserve our attention nor praise.
why can't theists define god?
>>73992832
>t. fedora
prove there is no god
>>73992832
>Mexico in charge of educated societies
>>73993064
ask theologians to define god, they will all define him using negations "non-material" ," time-less", "space-less", "unquantifiable". It is the literal definition of nothingness
>>73993242
just because you cant grasp the concept of a god doesnt mean he doesnt exist.
>>73992832
>Mexican Intellectuals
>>73993242
Ask scientists what set the laws of physics
>>73993064
>pic related, you
The burden of proof is on you.
When something is presented without proof, it can be dismissed withouth any sort of argumentation.
Prove to me that there isn't a starbucks on the dark side of the moon
>>73992832
When OP is baiting.
>>73993395
iirc, they were created nanoseconds after the big bang
>>73993362
>>73993395
>In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony science, but because I am enlightened by my faith to the one true Lord of the Universes, Lord Yahweh, protector of Yisrael and the twelve tribes
>>73993514
can you prove there is no starbucks?. i want to so see you atheists weasel yourself out of this one.
>>73993772
How retarded you guys are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor
>>73994089
atheists claimed first that there is no god, so the burden of proof is on you.
>>73992832
see>>73993394
>>73992832
>Mexican intellectuals
Yeah, you tell me god isn't real while you try to act like something that actually doesn't exist. You're pretty damn funny but you should get back to growing avocados or cooking meth.
>>73994347
Do you have proof that religion started by someone saying there is no God?
Do you see how stupid that sounds, Hans?
Go gas jews or something, you nazi murderer.
>>73994347
No, you retard. Religious were the ones that claimed that there is a god. Prove it. Since you can't prove there is no god, i can simply dismiss god existence as stories
>>73992832
I was kind of on the fence about God, but after seeing Mexican Intellectuals come out in favor of Atheism I've finally been able to make up my mind.
Praise the Lord.
>>73994486
>>73994476
>>73993394
>>73993194
>>73994487
>>73994608
i have more then enough proof that there is a god, its called the bible and is 2000 fucking years old you should read it sometimes.
>>73994684
I'm not here to argue, I'm just pointing something out. So a statement.
Why is it that I see this same Mexcrement atheist guy?
>>73992832
do you have proof the God doesn't exist? No? I didn't think so.
You're just as bad as those you criticize
>>73994747
its ok my fellow atheist you can stop pretending now you got enough (you)s
>>73994747
>i have more then enough proof that there is a god, its called the bible
And then you complain that people laugh in your face.
>HERE IS THE PROOF, IT'S WRITTEN IN THIS DESERT FABLE BOOK THAT SUFFERED NUMEROUS BAD TRANSLATIONS, SEE!!!?
>how do you know that what is written in the book is correct?
>BECAUSE THE SAME BOOK SAYS SO!!! YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!
>>73994799
>pic related
>>73994975
>>73995155
except I'm not claiming that God exists either because, as you point out, there is no proof. However you cannot ignore the fact that you can neither disprove the existence of such.
What makes you think that you know for certain that a God doesn't exist? Why can't you accept that we will ultimately never know if it exists or doesn't?
>>73995105
There's no proof one way or the other, so there's no discussion to really have. The only possible point is an attempt to bring people to to either of the equally unproven sides. The divine isn't going to come to this thread and provide overwhelming proof of itself and no one here is going to just suddenly come up with proof of there being no god.
The only idiots are the ones arguing about it.
This is all fucking retarded.
>>73993514
We monitor the moon quite a bit. If there was a starbucks on the dark side of the moon, then it would eventually appear on the light side due to rotation, meaning we could easily observe it.
>scientifically based society
Lol good one mootxico
>>73992832
Not even really religious but there is absolutely evidence of God, but it sounds like you're confusing evidence with "empirical evidence" or "proof" which would be much harder to produce.
Just as an example: before we had empirical evidence for the existence of atoms, people realized that if you assumed chemicals were composed of discrete units, chemical reactions suddenly made a lot more sense - this was a useful belief, even if it couldn't be proven at the time. Many people dismissed the idea initially, but we now know it to be true, and the early evidence of atomic reality came in the form of the belief's utility. "This idea helps us make sense of the world, we might be on to something" = evidence. Same can apply generally to the idea of a God or ultimate meaning/purpose/being in that it is a useful and motivating idea that helps us make sense of the world. This is evidence of truth. Not proof, but to say there's no evidence for God is 100% false.
>>73992832
>be accepted in an educated
Education only existed because it's modeled after christian theological academia.
>scientifically based society
>well we don't have all the answers but we definitely know god doesn't exist
if science was like that we'd still be believing in miasma
If only...
>>73992832
>Daily reminder that your God will NEVER be accepted in an educated, scientifically based society without evidence of it's existence.
Who cares? No one can prove anything with 100% certainty, especially things that exist outside of our realm of existence. Let people believe what they want
>>73995360
> However you cannot ignore the fact that you can neither disprove the existence of such.
But i don'thave to. What is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Prove to me that you don't have a third arm coming out of your neck.
>But i can't see another arm
It's invisible and you can't feel it. Prove to me that you don't have a third invisible arm coming out of your neck.
>What makes you think that you know for certain that a God doesn't exist?
Until he is proven, i dismiss his existense. If he is proven, then i will be his best follower
>Muh agnosticism
>Muh middle ground fallacy
>>73995465
>There's no proof one way or the other,
There is no one way or other way. What is presentd without proof can be dismissed without proof.
Prove to me that our universe isn't inside a chopped off american foreskin
You guys are dense.
>>73995649
The starbucks is beneath the surface. Prove to me that there isn't dwarfs inside a television. When you try to open it, they teleport out of the TV.
>>73995772
> but there is absolutely evidence of God
Such as?
>>73992832
>ctrl+f build
>ctrl+f wall
>0 replies
You know what to do.
Build that fucking wall paco.
>>73996382
The burden of proof is on atheists to prove there is no god. Do this before we can move on to evidence of God.
>>73996268
You present me a godless world without proof. I didn't need to be taught religion to have spiritual experiences.
So, again, pointless conversation and you are the dumbass who can't see that. You've just got a stick up your ass about religious people and wanna berate them.
Other people experience reality differently. Go cry in a corner.
>>73996632
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
To all the people who've ever claimed to love someone. The concept of 'love' will never be accepted in an educated, scientifically based society without evidence of it's existence.
You see, scientifically based societies don't believe in something until they can tear it apart, dissect it, and reduce it to it's fundamental particles.
We simply don't believe in larger constructs that lose meaning when you tear apart the complexity that yields them.
Also consciousness isn't real. It's just a webwork of neurons firing, and there's really no 'person', but a series of impulses that yield the illusion of sentience.
Oh and basically nothing exists but atoms, since what relation does any particle have to any other particle, aside from the arbitrary fact of it's (percieved) inclusion in the same system as another particle?
Nothing exists if it can't be dissected and catalogued and fit into scientist's brains. Even the Euphoria I'm feeling in this moment is just a spray of neurotransmitters being absorbed by my neurons.
t. athiest
>>73996268
>Until he is proven, i dismiss his existense. If he is proven, then i will be his best follower
>Implying that god would reveal him self to a lowly worm like you
>>73996268
>Until he is proven, i dismiss his existense.
But you're doing more than that. You seem to be advocating that you know for certain that God doesn't exist
>>73992832
>Daily reminder that your God will NEVER be accepted in an educated, scientifically based society without evidence of it's existence.
We don't care.
>>73993611
>created
It's hilarious because you can't help yourself.
>>73996800
Man, I remember being 18. How's your first philosophy class treating you?
>>73992832
Anything you say will not make me angry or frustrated. That goes for all fedoras.
I have found God to reside in myself, and I found this by myself. The Kingdom of the Lord is within us.
I have no problem what you do in school. I will always believe in God.
>>73997129
>doesn't understand satire.
I'm sure you remember being 18 just like it was yesterday.
>>73996739
>You present me a godless world without proof
wat?
> I didn't need to be taught religion to have spiritual experiences.
Good for you, i guess...
>>73996800
>The concept of 'love' will never be accepted in an educated, scientifically based society without evidence of it's existence.
Completely wrong. It can be explained in a biological way. If the explanation is good or not, i don't know.
>>73996892
k m8
>>73996897
We can never be certain that something doesn't exist. Atheism is not saying that we are ompletely sure that there isn't a deity. That is christian strawman. Atheist simply don't believe in a god.
>>73997040
>see, you made a spelling mistake and you didn't choose your terms carefully in 4chins, therefore i win and you are a christian like us, see?!!
>>73994089
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor
I lost faith in the validity of "razors" when I encountered the concept of "Newton's flaming laser sword" and realized that they were in actuality just justifications for intellectual laziness peddled by socially awkward dorks to avoid spilling their spaghetti in debates.
>>73997259
And i don't have any problem that you guys are chritians. Stupid people need their moral compass explained for them. It's ok by me. But don't expect me to take you seriously when discussing anything
>>73997478
This. Niggers confusing a heuristic like Occam's razor with some kind of universal law.
>>73996382
I just gave an example - if a belief is useful and makes sense of the world, that's evidence (not proof) of it's truth. Believing in an ultimate/infinite source of being/purpose/meaning allows us make sense of the world by putting our existence in the context of an ultimate existence - even if we can't begin to understand the nature of such a being, believing in its existence allows us to make sense of the world by putting ourselves in the context of something bigger. It also makes us feel less alone, and more secure in our lives, and although you could say these are just psychological tricks, the fact that they're EFFECTIVE is evidence that there's some truth to them because: Utility of a belief is evidence (EVIDENCE NOT PROOF) of its truth.
Also evidence from simplicity: an infinite system is actually simpler than a finite one. The complexity of an algorithm that generates an infinite set of integers is generally simpler than one that generates a finite set of integers for example. So Occam's razors suggests we should default to the assumption of being a part of/ creation of some infinite being/system until we have enough evidence to suggest reality is a finite or closed system.
>>73997354
You didn't make a spelling make, you just had an amusing freudian slip.
Everything needs a reason, including the fact that everything needs a reason, and science will never have an explanation for that because science is just another bit of code in the program incapable of understanding outside of the context it was created for.
>>73992832
>Daily reminder that your God will NEVER be accepted in an educated, scientifically based society without evidence of it's existence.
Maybe if more people in your country were good, faithful Christians you wouldn't have such a problem with drugs and murder. If that's where "enlightenment" leads then you can keep it.
>>73997637
>>73997478
>It's not true because i don't like it
Your fee feez don't matter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
>>73997641
>I just gave an example - if a belief is useful and makes sense of the world, that's evidence (not proof) of it's truth.
lol. I like it, therefore it's truth. Impecable logic. How can atheists recover from this blow?
>Also evidence from simplicity: an infinite system is actually simpler than a finite one. The complexity of an algorithm that generates an infinite set of integers is generally simpler than one that generates a finite set of integers for example. So Occam's razors suggests we should default to the assumption of being a part of/ creation of some infinite being/system until we have enough evidence to suggest reality is a finite or closed system.
That amount of mental gymnastics you do...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
>>73997873
>Everything needs a reason
Debatable
>and science will never have an explanation for that because
because not everything needs a reason. What is the reason for life to appear?
>>73997970
My country was one of the most religious in Europe, and it had a major problem with drug comsuption.
Also pointing out that Mexico drug problems is due to "lack of religious commitment" is stupid, because Mexico is a very religious country.
>>73997354
>It can be explained in a biological way.
Completely wrong. No it can't.
Only the physiological corollary events can be described. The actual experience cannot be 'explained'.
We're talking about phenomenon many orders of magnitude more complex than anything we can 'explain' scientifically.
>>73992832
Don't wall yourself off from God, m8
>>73998468
>Debatable
Could you name some other feature of the universe that violates causality?
>>73998524
>The actual experience cannot be 'explained'.
What part cannot be explained?
>>73998733
So you were talking about cause and effect or reasons for things to happen?
But nice moving the goalposts. Can you prove that god exists or not? I don't want to engage in a philosophical debate, because i don't have knowledge in area.
>>73998468
>I like it, therefore it's truth
Not so my autistic friend - again, if a belief offers utility and simplifies our understanding of the world (as in the case of early evidence for atoms >>73995772) then this is evidence of truth.
>therefore it's truth
Just because there is evidence for something doesn't make it true, I hope you understand the difference between evidence and proof.
>no argument
>posts link to Wikipedia
>>73997970
If the only reason you find peace is by lying to yourselves and others, believing in things with absolutely no proof and ignoring reality if it doesn't suit your narrow minded views, then that's hardly an endorsement of being "good, faithful Christians". If that's where "faith" leads, then you can keep it. To yourself.
>>73999046
>Can you prove that god exists or not?
Why dont christfag just make threads and ignore the reddit fedora tippers and muslims
>Make /pol/ great again
>>73997508
I don't push my faith on others. That's why I mentioned the "by myself" part. If you met me in real life you would just think I was a good person, you wouldn't know about my faith and I would never bring it up.
>>73999046
Cause and effect and the reason things happen are the exact same thing. There was no moving of goal posts.
I cannot prove objectively that God exists and I feel no great need to do so. I have simply made the conscious choice to believe in God. You also have the free-will to accept or deny God.
>>73999387
>why don't christfags just make hugbox echochamber threads and ignore atheists and their facts and logical reasoning
They do. Just like reddit hugbox echochambers.
>>73999255
So you would rather be philosophically dissected by science and be reduced to less than an animal?
All because you have a problem with "lying to yourself"?
>>73999670
>So you would rather be philosophically dissected by science and be reduced to less than an animal?
Philosophy is not a science. Also, how can one be reduced to 'less than an animal', when it's obvious we are animals. No matter how you try to reason it, we are animals. This is a fact. Lying to yourself doesn't change that.
>>73999084
> if a belief offers utility and simplifies our understanding of the world (as in the case of early evidence for atoms >>73995772) then this is evidence of truth.
What kind of fucked up logic is this? So you think moral is relative?
If i believe that i am a women, and since this belief offers utility and simplifies our (at least it simplifies mine) understanding of the world, then i am a women? Ok, i guess.
Again, just because you want something to be truth, it doesn't make it.
>>no argument
>>posts link to Wikipedia
>Can't debate
>HURR DURR WIKIPEDIA IS SO STUPID xD
Do you want me to copy paste argument from ignorance to here?
>>73999387
>Muh echochamber!!!!!!!!!!!
>Why are thry trying to debate me!!
>I can't defend my beliefs from a rational standpoint!!!! Quickly, silence them!!!!!!!!
>>73999403
ok, sure. keep on being a good person.
>>73999448
>I cannot prove objectively that God exists
Discussion over.
>>73999934
Christians are special snowflakes chosen people. They want to feel good about themselve
>>73999597
ignore atheists and their facts and logical reasoning
haha every thread is the same
>Can you prove that god exists or not?
teapot pink, elephant flying pasta, occams vibrator
getting tiresome
>>74000329
>ignore atheists and their facts and logical reasoning
HAHAHAHAHHA. I don't know if the dutch is strawmaning the christians, or if he is just stupid
>>73992832
If I believe God truly exists, then I don't really need to prove anything to anyone. Who are you that I need to have your acceptance of God's existence?
It's you who should prove He doesn't exist so you can alleviate your guilt and justify your life of degeneracy.
>>74000329
Well can you? No you can't. You never could. Yet you still continue to believe despite admitting you have no grounds to. That kind of attitude is tiresome to everyone else but you lot.
>>73992832
>Daily reminder that your God will NEVER be accepted in an educated, scientifically based society without evidence of it's existence.
do you really think the primeordial blueprint of reality just came out of nowhere for no reason and without a creator? Or that the boundaries within the very nature of our physical laws that we know and use came about just because, weren't set distinctively and have no origin either? do you really think nothing metaphysical was responsible for the very first lifeform that came into existence ever?
atheism is a complete dead-end only idiots end up with and pretend they are comfortable with it, OP. sadly, it's not that simple. there can't be a creation without a creator.
and even if most of our religion have an anthropomorphic image of god, even though we don't know if it even is something like a sentient being, even if we know that this would be close-minded, it's just our way of communicating cosmic spiritual and divine love towards what god is and to be closer to what it is or could be.
It's funny how the same atheists who are redpilled enough to know the truth about the lies behind global warming/climate change, the jewish control of everything, the holohoax, the truth behind 9/11, will defend and say hitler did nothing wrong, the manipulation of the media and culture, the leftist indoctrination running rampant all throughout western society, and the white genocide in the name of tolerance and multiculturalism have no problem with any of these things... don't think that the same agenda isn't being pushed for the only real religion out there, i.e. Christianity.
If you're an atheist who believes in half of what I just listed but gets triggered at the name of Jesus you're being fooled the same way the lefties brainwash the public en masse. Christianity as a whole is set against virtually all forms of degeneracy and is fully opposed to the Jewish menace who have hijacked and screwed over real teachings of the bible into a pro-israel pro-zionist political movement fueled by the jewish agenda.
If you're a anti-leftist atheist or agnostic we have more in common than you think. And unlike the Islamists who want to cut your head off behind the disguise of taqiyya all I want to do is invite you to a bible study next weekened. Can we just agree to disagree and move on?
>>74000632
and atheist cant proof that god does not exist so why circle jerk every fucking thread , do you have autism?
>I won't be accepted by a community that worships a mechanical engineer's views on biology and a lying astrophysicist who has blantantly fabricated credentials to earn some sort of notoriety besides being the "black science man"
Oh no, how will I ever survive Juan
P.S. you're still building the wall
>>73999934
Philosophy is not a science but science is a philosophy.
> Also, how can one be reduced to 'less than an animal', when it's obvious we are animals. No matter how you try to reason it, we are animals. This is a fact. Lying to yourself doesn't change that.
I am aware that I am an animal. "Animal" is simply an arbitrary distinction between various related chemical reactions that occur in the universe. "Animal" is a useful concept to humans but meaningless to science.
That is why I say that science inevitably reduces you to less than an animal because from the perspective of science we are not people, we are not even animals, we are chemical/physical reactions.
Which then raises the question of why should some chemical reactions be more valued than others? Why is it wrong to prematurely end some chemical reactions but not others?
Then we inevitably find out that it is actually you that is lying to yourself when you try to come up with justifications for holding onto your morality while simultaneously claiming to think scientifically.
Any atheist who thinks atheists can claim to be moral hasn't pursued his atheistic reasoning to it's logical conclusion.
>>74000911
>redpilled enough
>truth about the lies behind global warming/climate change
>the jewish control of everything,
> the holohoax
/pol/ is so sad sometimes...
And nice strawman that the rest of your post is
>>74000913
Funny, since it's the cuckstains that circle-jerk on this board and get upset when atheists come in to point out how ignorant they are.
>>74001434
>lefty/pol/
That comment wasn't meant for you.
>>74000911
as a atheist i always got triggered by jesus its some hardcore programming , everything with jesus sounds pathetic and stupid
>>73999970
From our perspective morality will always be relative to some extent because we can never fully understand the ultimate truth, if it exists.
Believing whether you're a woman or not is a weird example because obviously that's an extremely specific case and not really about "truth" like scientific theories/existence of God etc. If you try to be a women but look like an ogre in a dress then you're somewhat delusional, but if you already look really feminine and make it work for you then maybe it's not bad thing (I personally think the latter applies to the minority of cases).
And instead of posting links or copy-pasting you could try actually forming your own arguments.
I'm not even trying to convince you there's a god, not totally sold on it myself, but it's idiotic to say no evidence for God when you clearly mean there's not proof for God - big difference.
>>74000913
Burden of proof is on you to prove he does exist.
>>74001458
You belief everything came from nothing christfags belief magic sky man did it
both are faith both are ignorant
>>74001140
This is the tired old 'morality needs to come from a moral lawgiver' argument. This line of thinking has been blown out of the water many times over history. Just because thinking scientifically is a tested method of solving problems and advancing our species does not mean that it has to lead to mass euthanasia, sterilizations, etc. Continuing to hold this flawed conclusion is indeed lying to yourself. I can easily turn it around and say that perhaps you lot really do need to be put down as a danger to the rest of us if the only thing holding you back from doing everything horrible you can think of is a false belief.
I always find it funny that it's the religious who always go on and on about atheism and it's 'logical conclusion' like they're qualified to know what that is in the first place, rather than just being a strawman for everything they don't like.
>>73992832
>scientifically based society without evidence of it's existence.
Positivism has been obsolete for 40 years. Too bad fedoras will conveniently ignore this.
>so you have the burden of proof.
Have fun reading and trying to prove wrong stuff like the Quinque Viae.
>>74001837
see autism
>>74001837
"Burden of proof" is rhetorical device not a law of nature. The fact that I cannot prove that there is a tiger in the bushes does not mean that there is no tiger in the bushes.
>>73997970
African Americans are one of the most religious races in America. They are also the ones with the biggest problems of drugs and murder.
>>74002045
>Saying atheists believe they 'came from nothing'
>Calling them ignorant
10/10 irony
>>74001764
>that's an extremely specific case
And personal belief in god is not?
>And instead of posting links or copy-pasting you could try actually forming your own arguments.
I don't use copy pastas. And i think linking to wiki articles about specific things that are very well explained is not wrong. It's very dishonest to dismiss things because you don't like the source.
But nice evade.
>but it's idiotic to say no evidence for God when you clearly mean there's not proof for God
Prove me that god exists
>>74002228
Christfags only arguments are memes. =^)
>>74002254
Burdens of proof are key to having logically valid statements: if claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true. There would be no need for courts and no need for science. Since whatever came out of our mouths could automatically be seen as true.
If you say there's a tiger in the bushes, but there's no evidence of a tiger in the bushes then it should be dismissed. That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
>>74002254
>The fact that I cannot prove that there is a tiger in the bushes does not mean that there is no tiger in the bushes.
The point of the device is to show that it's pointless to go about believing it's true despite having no evidence. If you spend all your time worry that there might be a tiger in the bushes because you have no evidence there isn't one, you'll never get anything done, as well as look like a fucking fool. There's a difference between being out in the Savannah where tigers actually live, in a tigers habitat, where tiger sightings have been common recently and being wary of one appearing, and being in America where they don't live, nowhere near a zoo, in your home and being afraid that one might appear in your backyard bushes. Don't be an idiot.
>>74002960
>Burden of proof not e meme used every thread muh burden of proof
>>74002182
So why exactly then is one chemical process more morally valuable than another? This should be easy for you to answer since my line of reasoning has apparently "been blown out of the water many times over history."
So then?
Why is a chimpanzee worth more more than a weathering stone?
>I can easily turn it around and say that perhaps you lot really do need to be put down as a danger to the rest of us if the only thing holding you back from doing everything horrible you can think of is a false belief.
You still don't get it idiot. This isn't some "theists are more moral than atheists" pissing match. My argument is unaffected by whether or not morality is an innate biological process in all humans because IT'S STILL JUST A BIOLOGICAL PROCESS FOUND IN HUMANS. Which means that there is no logical justification not to work around it anymore so than there is a logical reason to claim that people should not be put on respirators while undergoing surgery.
If morality gets in the way then why shouldn't those that are able to find ways around it?
>t-that would be immoral
and THAT is a circular argument, which is why you will always be lying to yourself when you claim that science does not conflict with human morality. Science inherently supersedes human morality.
>>74001837
Interesting theory.
>>74003476
Speak English, Dutchshit.
>>74003761
What?
>>74003121
>If you spend all your time worry that there might be a tiger in the bushes because you have no evidence there isn't one, you'll never get anything done, as well as look like a fucking fool. There's a difference between being out in the Savannah where tigers actually live, in a tigers habitat, where tiger sightings have been common recently and being wary of one appearing, and being in America where they don't live, nowhere near a zoo, in your home and being afraid that one might appear in your backyard
and then the day comes that rustling you hear in the bushes is not just the wind and against all odds it actually is a tiger. Maybe it ran away from a circus who the fuck knows, but the point is there is a tiger here now and no amount of "burden of proof" is going to make him go away.
>t-thats unlikely...
irrelevant as the whole point of this exercise is to show that "burden of proof" doesn't actually mean anything in the real world, the real world doesn't care if you have proof it's going to do what it wants, so limiting your thought processes with artificial academic concepts is stupid.
Superstition is useful.
>>74004107
>Speak English, Dutchshit.
oh you got me
>expecting a literal retard who believes in god to understand how burden of proof works
good luck
>>74002471
>belief in god is not a specific case
No, God is literally the most general concept possible - an ultimate, all-encompassing being is infinitely more general than whether or not you believe you're a woman.
I think wikipedia is usually a great source of information, but when you just post a link it's lazy and unclear what you even disagree with.
Also: NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT GOD EXISTS. Do you not understand the difference between evidence and proof? Do believe that no proof = no evidence? My whole point is that it's dumb to say there's 0 evidence for God, and your only response seems to be "that doesn't prove there's a god" when I'm not trying to prove there's a god at all.
Just use Occam's razor. It proves there is a god.
>Atheists: "The Big Bang just started out of nowhere and all the circumstances that created life are just coincidences."
>Theists: "God created the universe and made all the circumstances for life happen"
Which one seems more reasonable to you? The one that assumes every condition for life just happened to fall in to place by coincidence, or the one that assumes God created the universe and the conditions for life to happen? Any true educated person chooses the latter.
>>74003610
>So why exactly then is one chemical process more morally valuable than another?
Why does it need to be? Why does there need to be a reason? It's up to the person, or the collective. Even if we leave it up to each person, trends appear that are easy to see, yet hard to rationally justify. See the Trolley Problem. People overwhelmingly seem to choose the same moral choices in those even if they're not religious, and even if they can't give a reason. You want to call it 'god' instead of something innate in the brain, or even just something we can't yet explain (but be assured there IS an answer, as it is purely a scientific question).
>Why is a chimpanzee worth more more than a weathering stone?
Because one is alive, and the other is a rock you idiot. And here comes the next tired old argument: So why is a human life worth more than a bacteria? These kinds of value judgements are obvious. But why are they? It's all subjective, isn't it? Well no shit, because every quality we create to make a comparison can easily be dismissed or challenged with another. There is no universal system of ethics, you fucking tool. That's the point. That doesn't mean you get to shove god and and say it's all solved.
>T'S STILL JUST A BIOLOGICAL PROCESS FOUND IN HUMANS. Which means that there is no logical justification not to work around it anymore so than there is a logical reason to claim that people should not be put on respirators while undergoing surgery.
Wow, that non-sequitur jump in illogical reasoning. Congrats. You fucking moron.
>If morality gets in the way then why shouldn't those that are able to find ways around it?
They do, and they get punished by subjective laws. That's how society works.
>which is why you will always be lying to yourself when you claim that science does not conflict with human morality
It does conflict. However, that in no way means that it shouldn't conflict or that because there is a conflict, therefore god, or therefore science sucks.
>>73993362
Oh, we can grasp the concept, all right. We just can't grasp HIM (because he isn't real).
You need to grasp the concept that you're slightly retarded. It's pretty hard, isn't it?
>>74004188
It is unlikely. So don't worry about it until it becomes a problem. Dilemma solved. If you're really saying you're going to worry about every possible outcome simultaneously because it's possible, even though you admit it's unlikely, report to your nearest mental asylum. There is a reason our brains evolved to work like they do.
>, but the point is there is a tiger here now and no amount of "burden of proof" is going to make him go away.
Well no shit. You don't need burden of proof anymore, it's right there. You're past that point.
>Superstition is useful.
Pic related.
>>73994747
>we wuz nazi's 'n shieeet
>>73996268
>Until he is proven, i dismiss his existense. If he is proven, then i will be his best follower
Funny how in this scenario the lowly (and I DO mean lowly) creation makes it ALL about himself in regards to The Most High God.
Yes, I'm sure God will come running in because he just HAS to have YOU follow Him, right? You've never read the bible, so God being GOOD is irrelevant to you, you evil cunt.
>>74004485
>I think wikipedia is usually a great source of information, but when you just post a link it's lazy and unclear what you even disagree with.
and i will say it again: Do you want me to opy paste wiki? The wiki article explains very well and in a succint form what i want to show you. I'm not making a Doctoral Thesis.
>Do you not understand the difference between evidence and proof?
Why are you so locked in debating semantics. I don't think i even mentioned the word evidence in any of my posts. Stop moving the fucking goalposts. I don't want to debate philosophy or semantics or shit. I asked for a proof of god existence. None was given, so the only logical position is atheism.
>>74008240
so he loves us enough to sacrifice himself for himself, but not enough to just show up?
>>74009347
Your only logical destination is going to be the lake of fire, loser!
>>74005292
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
Read the fucking wiki at least. Occam razor is not what you think it is, you retard.
>>74009484
Why don't you try to understand what the bible is about (without a stick in your ass) instead of using meme arguments, you dip?
>>74009760
how is the trinity a meme? arent all three one? didnt jesus die so our sins can be forgiven by god?
>mfw all these atheist anons will most likely end up in hell
Does nobody else feel really bad about that?
I mean, as far as I know I might end up there just like them, but I would rather they get saved
>>74009484
You wouldn't recognize God if he showed up anyways. He's already in your life.
>>74008240
>You've never read the bible
The bible is near the bottom of my reading list. For morality fables, there is a much better one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesop%27s_Fables
>>74009601
I'm shivering from the thought of it.
>>74009484
>he showed up
>let me criticize him for not showing up
wut
>>74009949
theres also adragon behind you, i mean you cant really detect it in any way, but you should be afraid anyways
>>74009943
Shut your dirty catholic whore mouth, you.
>>73993629
>something was made from nothing
>atheists will defend this
>>74010037
show up as in not 2000 years ago, you know, so everyone doesnt have to take it all on faith
>>74010062
Okay, keep parroting shitty arguments then.
There is no evidence that numbers exist and no one know what numbers are still, but we still use them for everyting.
there is no point having arguments over whether to believe in god or not because you can't convert the vast majority of theists no matter what argument you use
>>73992832
>neckbeard
>shitskin
>atheist
>all 3 at the same time
Can it get any worse?
>>74009943
We don't believe in hell, so it doesn't bother us.
>>74009949
>HE IS YOUR FRIEND!!!/y&$/!!! HE IS EVERYWHERE!!!!""21111!!!!!!!
>>74010223
so you cant even refute shitty, paroted arguments?
>>74009943
They will what the wish for, an eternity without God while burning in hell forever. Poor bastards.
>>74010033
Why do you reject the Holy Spirit? You only have to listen
>We don't believe in hell, so it doesn't bother us.
I will reply to you the way Padre Pio did when they told him these exact words: "when you find yourself there, you'll start believing in it"
>>74010424
yeah but I feel bad about it, I want as many people as possible to love God and find peace in him
>>74010080
(you)
>>74010145
When he showed up, he did it for a very good reason, and we all know which it was. God does what he does for many reasons, most of the times they are misterious, sure, but it is only logical that he does not act the way you want him to because he finds it to be more beneficial to us.
Look at it this way: the more self-evidently God appears to us, the more reponsibility it places on us. The less he appears to us, the more powerful our act of faith is in our path to salvation. I hope you understand this point.
>>74010298
Numbers are concept made by us to make our understanding of the world easier. It's kind of the same as god.
>>74010350
Lack of understanding and self-centeredness on the level of a 15 year old girl: the post
>>74010371
Yes i can. I am also able to eat shit and cut myself but I won't do that either.
>>74010713
>Yes i can. I am also able to eat shit and cut myself but I won't do that either.
sure, sure keep on keeping on buddy
>>74010677
what proof do you have that concepts exist and are not just illusions of the mind?
>>74010601
>You only have to listen
to what?
>inb4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCC_b5WHLX0
>when you find yourself there, you'll start believing in it
Exactly.
>>74010902
>to what?
to the Holy Spirit
>Exactly
It will be too late though. Once you are there, you are there forever
>>74010601
>but it is only logical that he does not act the way you want him to because he finds it to be more beneficial to us.
no it isnt, all you fagggots do is talk about his infinite love for everyone
>God appears to us, the more reponsibility it places on us
how? and why would he even appear in the first place if that was the case
>appears to us, the more powerful our act of faith is in our path to salvation. I hope you understand this point.
so basically god wants us to be stupid on purpose and just believe anything we see fit?
>>74010800
Or I could talk to a fucking wall. It's the same as talking with you, really.
God is a form of fear based escapism for humans that don't want to acknowledge that after life there is nothing but the void.
>>74010801
These concepts exist only in the mind of humans. Outside of it it's meaningless. What is the pythagoras theorema to a dog?
>>74011395
so far you said literally nothing besides 'pffff im too good for you' i eamn you do have this trump card that complitely obliterates this shitty argument of mine yes? why not just use it, its not like you have anything to lose and youll make me look like a complete moron in the process right?
>>74010983
Don 't worry about me, bro...
How do i listen to the Holy spirit? is it a male or female voice? What language does he speak? Does he talk in afternoons or in the morning?
>>73992832
>
>>73992832
>>74011163
>no it isnt, all you fagggots do is talk about his infinite love for everyone
yes, that why it is logical to accept the fact tha the does not appear "in empirical terms" like you want him to. He does not do it because it benefits us. All he does is to benefit us. We are in a fallen state, that is what you should understand. Without God's intervention, we would already be dead, not only in body but also in soul.
>how? and why would he even appear in the first place if that was the case
This is basic Christianity m8. Angels cannot repent like humans. They know God, they were in his direct presence; once they reject him, it is forever. God gives you a chance to repent as long as you are alive, and as long as you are sincere. That is possible because you have the choice not to believe in him, but if you make the opposite choice you pay the toll, just like if you decide to jump out of the window and you hit the pavement at 150 miles per hour.
>so basically god wants us to be stupid on purpose and just believe anything we see fit?
No. When you open your mind and your heart and you both read the Bible, read some theology and read the cathechism of the Catholic Church, you'll find all the answers you need. God reveals himself to us privately, in ways that we never found possible because they escape our comprehension. God knew you before you were in the womb, and only he can personally reveal his presence to you by speaking directly to your heart.
>>74011420
>These concepts exist only in the mind of humans. Outside of it it's meaningless. What is the pythagoras theorema to a dog?
If concepts only exist in our mind then why should God applying himself to those imaginary concepts prove his existence to you, considering that those concepts are imaginary and cannot prove the existence of anything, not even yourself?
>>74011611
Ask honestly for guidance and God will give it to you, and you will find out. You will have to do it sincerely though
>>74011611
>I believe irrationally that the universe spawned from nothing and that the universe will die from entropy
>the idea of someone talking to a higher power is crazy
>>73992832
> Christianity isn't science
>>74005309
>It does conflict. However, that in no way means that it shouldn't conflict or that because there is a conflict, therefore god, or therefore science sucks.
It clearly does though.
You just admitted that you have no answers, and your ethics has no concrete grounding beyond the will of the mob, which is no ethics whatsoever.
>>74005852
>There is a reason our brains evolved to work like they do.
Yes and we evolved to be superstitious apes. Oh wait never mind time to abandon evolution it's getting in the way of you tipping your fedora!
>>74011885
>All he does is to benefit us.
cancer in babies
>Without God's intervention, we would already be dead, not only in body but also in soul.
Without *INSERT LITERALLY ANYTHING HERE* intervention, we would already be dead, not only in body but also in soul.
>once they reject him, it is forever.
why the fuck would that even be a rule? and why wouldnt angels not be able to repent?
>just like if you decide to jump out of the window and you hit the pavement at 150 miles per hour
except neither building nor pavement have never been shown to exist and we can all fly
>When you open your mind
oh wow never heard that before, do you really not realize that this can be used for anything and still have the same argument value?
>read the cathechism of the Catholic Church
and how is that different from any other church?
>in ways that we never found possible because they escape our comprehension
what would even be the point if we cant comprehend it?
> only he can personally reveal his presence to you by speaking directly to your heart.
unless when he just doesnt want to do that for some reason
>>74010677
>Numbers are concept made by us to make our understanding of the world easier. It's kind of the same as god.
Funny how I don't see you rushing to abandon the use of numbers though....
>>74011605
I know you're just going to go around in circles with me, because of your own arrogance, but what the hell.
Why does God need to prove himself to YOU? Is his message (which you don't even bother to understand anyways, you just use shitty meme arguments you find on 4chan) not good enough for you?
I've already told you what you should do anyways : read your bible without a stick in your ass.
>Mexican Intellectuals
>>74012519
>waaaah cancer in babies
You can't even give me an ethical justification to claim that cancer in babies is bad in the first place atheist.
>>74012894
>Why does God need to prove himself to YOU?
if he actually cares about what people believe then he would
>read your bible without a stick in your ass.
read your *insert a holy text here* without a stick in your ass.
>>74012519
>cancer in babies
your appeals to emotion are useless and anti-intellectual
>why the fuck would that even be a rule? and why wouldnt angels not be able to repent?
I already explained you why
>except neither building nor pavement have never been shown to exist and we can all fly
wut? Are you going insane?
It is a metaphor, to express how all actions have a consequence. You can't complain for going to hell if your actions bring you there, just like you can't complain about dying if you kill yourself.
> do you really not realize that this can be used for anything and still have the same argument value?
Not really. The point is your objections are a result of prejudice and ignorance, and it is therefore only logical for me to invite you and stop such practices, i.e., to open your mind
>and how is that different from any other church?
it is the Church founded by Jesus himself. I am not going to open this topic, just read it.
>what would even be the point if we cant comprehend it?
We can comprehend it when it happens
>unless when he just doesnt want to do that for some reason
I already told you why he does not do that. He does not most likely because you don't want him to. You close yourself and push yourself far from him. You are supposed to meet him halfway.
>>73992832
>Wanting to be accepted by a circle who claims transgenderism isn't a mental illness
Are you one of those Mexican intellectuals I've heard so much about? You do know that one cultural marxism got it's claws into science it became pretty much a dead, worthless subject, right?
>>74012994
im not saying cancer is evil, its just a disease, but when you claim that god is the ultimate good and he loves us infinietly then that become a problem
Does anyone remember that time a Belgian catholic priest concocted the big bang theory, and nobody took him seriously for years?
Shit was SO cash.
Attacking science and the big bang doesn't prove anything.
I think the big bang is a theory that makes sense. I don't believe it.
I don't think god existing makes sense plus there's no proof. I don't believe it.
See my point?
I would like to hear real arguments for god, maybe I could feel better and less nihilistic?
>>74013291
>, but when you claim that god is the ultimate good and he loves us infinietly then that become a problem
How so?
Do you also find it problematic if a parent doesn't wrap their house in bubble-wrap to protect their child too?
>>74013094
That's like saying "If I actually cared about a child's want of sugar i'd indulge him because I care"
I told you talking with you was like a wall. I'm starting to hear my own echoes bounce back, lol. The worst thing is you think doing that makes you clever.
>>74013408
The story of Jesus, his life and miracles are the biggest proof you'll ever have, dear anon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S4X0v-vFpI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EbP7oZ5APA
>>74013147
>your appeals to emotion are useless and anti-intellectual
what appeal? you said that god only benefits us and i said that if he really wanted to then shit like that wouldnt happen
>I already explained you why
no you didnt, you just said that they cant (if its just because they saw him already then god is a pretty hateful cunt if he instantly banishes you even if you do want to repent)
>It is a metaphor, to express how all actions have a consequence
pavement=hell, building=god, if you want to talk about consequence then first prove that those consequences actually exist
>Not really.
so a muslim couldnt use literally the same sentence? or would he be just wrong because your perticular religion is the true one?
>it is the Church founded by Jesus himself.
it is the Church founded by *any god, saint or a prophet ever* himself.
>We can comprehend it when it happens
some people obviously cant
>I already told you why he does not do that. He does not most likely because you don't want him to. You close yourself and push yourself far from him. You are supposed to meet him halfway.
blah blah blah, believe in the force and youll get the power, i mean could i really not say that the only reason youre not a muslim is because you pushed away god?
>>74013766
no ,thats like saying 'i have infinite power, and also infinite love for you, but who gives a shit youll be fine with cancer anyway'
>>73992832
>Daily reminder that your God will NEVER be accepted in an educated, scientifically based society without evidence of it's existence.
What are you talking about? It already has.
>Mexican intellectuals
>>73992832
Ever notice how atheists are utterly miserable in this world and devoid of love in their hearts for any and all things? That's because they chose to cut themselves off from God. They did. Their own will. By their own will they could try and undo that and reconnect with God, but most likely won't, sadly, because of their pride.
tl;dr: Not spiritually discerned? You just won't learn.
God of the old testament and the God of the new testament are not the same.
God of old testament: Ruler of this world.
God of new testament: Jesus: "My Father's kingdom is not of this world."
Get it? This whole *Carl voice "If he's all knowing, than how come he lets bad things happen?? Huh??" bullshit doesn't even apply.
When Jesus was up on the mountain, Satan tempted him with everything in the world. Saying he could have all of it, if Jesus would bow and worship him. Why would Satan offer this to Jesus, unless he was the ruler of that world? There's more scripture that shows this too, but you'll have to locate it yourself.
>>73992832
Tell that to the muslims, christians are the only group keeping them at bay.
Fuck off tako
>>74013887
>what appeal? you said that god only benefits us and i said that if he really wanted to then shit like that wouldnt happen
original sin corrupted all creation. I am not going to spoon-feed you though.
>no you didnt, you just said that they cant
Yes, I did. Knowing God, they have no excuse for rejecting him. They are not fallen like humans, they are not imperfect and wandering the earth. God allowing us repentance is out of his love for us, and his infinite mercy as he knows us and knows our shortcomings are partly due to our situation.
>pavement=hell, building=god, if you want to talk about consequence then first prove that those consequences actually exist
You are so blind...you ask proof, but perhaps you should start asking for faith.
>so a muslim couldnt use literally the same sentence? or would he be just wrong because your perticular religion is the true one?
Truth is truth. Christianity is true, Islam is not. The fact that someone is wrong does not mean everyone is. The moment you admit that there is right and wrong, that there is truth and lack of truth, you have to admit that someone has it and someone doesn't. Christianity is true and Islam is not. Muslims can say whatever they want, facts, theology, history...pretty much everything rebukes them. Your false equivalence is horrible.
>it is the Church founded by *any god, saint or a prophet ever* himself.
You know nothing
>some people obviously cant
They would if they tried
>blah blah blah, believe in the force and youll get the power, i mean could i really not say that the only reason youre not a muslim is because you pushed away god?
sure, you can say whatever you want. You would be wrong though.
>>74013408
I get where you're coming from.
Look at the human experience as a game. We evolved in this game and we are a part of this game. It is in our programming to be superstitious apes because that's how we survived the game to get to this point.
Science is meta-gaming.
It is a means of pretending that we are not just superstitious apes and modeling concepts that exist outside of the game and are outside of the normal experience of participants in said game. Metagaming can obviously provide very strong advantages within a game but at the same time it is very easy for a metagamer to break the game and ruin it for everyone else.
Focusing solely on the metagame (science) over the the game itself (the human experience) breaks the game.
>>73995649
>it would eventually appear on the light side due to rotation
American "education"
>the moon is tidally locked to the earth
>confusing near/far with light/dark
I think most people can agree that if there was a god that created the universe, he no longer cares about us. If he can make one universe why stop there? We are just inside a snow globe on his shelf
>>74014254
Up yours you Gnostic fag. We KNOW Jesus comes in the name of of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
>>73994918
No, "we" don't have proof. We have scientific knowledge and theory, so it makes no sense he exists.
However its a posibility.
Meaning we cant know if he exists or not
>>74014648
>original sin corrupted all creation
so inharatable sins dont seem retarded to you? by that logic if you live in the US and youre white you should be punished for owning slaves also, why wouldnt god just make it good again? is he not all powerful?
>and his infinite mercy
if you dont believe me without proof youre going to burn in hell
do you by any chance know what 'mercy', or infinite 'means'
>You are so blind...you ask proof, but perhaps you should start asking for faith.
so asking for proof is bad now? might wanna rephrase that
>Christianity is true, Islam is not
ok then, ask yourself why arent you a muslim, and then use the same arguments against your own religion (i bet you havent opened your mind and read the quaran have you?)
>You know nothing
8/8 arguments m8
>They would if they tried
so would you if you just opened your heart and became a muslim
>sure, you can say whatever you want. You would be wrong though.
everyone else is wrong im the only one correct.
>>74014986
Ok but why that makes god real?
>>74014986
tl,dr: Stop trying to glitch your way onto that mountain outside of the map and play the objective you useless goddamn bush wookies.
>>74015666
It doesn't.
It doesn't matter if god is objectively real but it's more healthy for humans to act according to their nature and believe that god exists.
>>74015506
>so inharatable sins dont seem retarded to you?
No, it doesn't, because we can experience the existence of original sin every moment of our life. You only have to look at the mirror and look around you to have proof of its truth.
> by that logic if you live in the US and youre white you should be punished for owning slaves also
False equivalence, I am trying to be nice but you are being so stupid and immature just for the sake of it
>why wouldnt god just make it good again? is he not all powerful?
These would require a long answer. Basically because of justice. We apply ourselves the principle that "crimes" deserve "punishment". Our crime towards God corrupted us and nature. God overcomes the inevitable judgmenet out of his love for us through Jesus sacrifice, so that we can be forgiven and reunited with him.
>do you by any chance know what 'mercy', or infinite 'means'
Nice condescending attitude. It only makes you sound even more foolish though.
>so asking for proof is bad now? might wanna rephrase that
Asking for proof is bad if done the way you did. Of course I cannot show you the proof of hell the way you want it to be presented to you, and you will only have that way after you die. That is what God decided, and what we have been revealed by him makes it a meaningful and perfectly logically sound decision.
>ok then, ask yourself why arent you a muslim, and then use the same arguments against your own religion (i bet you havent opened your mind and read the quaran have you?)
For many reasons, too many to list in a post. I can make you one single example, one you could understand: history. Jesus led a perfectly moral life, he sacrificed himself for us, whether you believe him to be the son of God or not. His disciples led moral lives outside of sin. Mohammed went around killing infidels, marrying 9-year-old girls, dying his hair red to look more punk-rock and a lot of other childish, puerile stuff. Mind you, this is just one reason of thousands
>>74016215
Meaning it makes people feel better even in a modern society?
I don't think I can have blind faith just for muh feelz to feel better.
But I am interested in Buddihsm, which seems much less bullshity and fairy tail like
>>74015424
Come to the knowledge of the truth, which is Jesus Christ. Read the new testament, jew.
Ask yourself "what is good." Know that God is good, and realize that your desire for "proof" is just you expecting GOD to hearken to your vain ego.
Do you need objective proof that I shouldn't rob you should we ever meet?
>>74016578
My school was called St. John Bosco. I didnt even get molested.
>>74016578
>You only have to look at the mirror
and exactly will i see?
>False equivalence
how is it false? if we can be fucked over by adams sins then why souldnt it apply here too?
>he principle that "crimes" deserve "punishment"
so fucking punish adam and be done with it, is god a todler or something? why would he be mad at us for somehting we didnt do?
>Nice condescending attitude. It only makes you sound even more foolish though.
so an infinite punishment for a finite crime (which not believing something without proog btw) is merciful?
>That is what God decided
pretty shit decision-amking skills, i mean im pretty sure you could come up with a better system if you were literally the most perfect being in existence
>His disciples led moral lives outside of sin
ok so you believe in what you believe because the starters were peaceful? what about budhism or hinduism? im pretty sure there are way more peaceful religions that christianity?
>>73992832
lol
>>73992832
tl;dr: anime is the best religion
>>74017202
Eh, I still cant believe like that.
No, but that is not a point for or against faith
>>74017458
>and exactly will i see?
Your fallen nature
>if we can be fucked over by adams sins then why souldnt it apply here too?
For the same reason that having a toy truck run over a spider-man action figure when you are 3 years old is not the same as driving over a mass of people with your truck while drunk when you are 40
>so fucking punish adam and be done with it, is god a todler or something? why would he be mad at us for somehting we didnt do?
We did it though. Adam's sin made us who we are today. It had that consequence, whether you like it or not. God does what he does simply to invert the process and let us be united with him again. You obviously don't want that because you don't approve his choices, etc. so your loss I guess
>so an infinite punishment for a finite crime (which not believing something without proog btw) is merciful?
You know that Jesus came and paid for us so that we don't have to pay for it, so yes, it is very merciful
>pretty shit decision-amking skills, i mean im pretty sure you could come up with a better system if you were literally the most perfect being in existence
If he is the most perfect being in existence then his choices are also perfect, and logically your inability to see through their perfection is the consequence of your own imperfection and limitedness
>ok so you believe in what you believe because the starters were peaceful? what about budhism or hinduism? im pretty sure there are way more peaceful religions that christianity?
Being peaceful is not the only point. That was one of a thousand reasons why Islam is clearly wrong. Hinduism and Buddhism are not true for different reasons, I am not going to open this other topic though.
>>74017977
If you know God is good, that there is no darkness in him, tell me this: what foolish prerequisite are you going to put before Him? You want proof that he exists, is that it?
>>74015348
Got any verses for scriptural proof of that?
>up yours you Gnostic fag
You really should leave the shit flinging to the atheists. You should be above that behavior in religious threads like this.
>>73992832
science is just as unstable as religion. if your anti religion but hold science on par then, you lost
>>74018442
I dont think hes good.
Yes, how can i literally believe otherwise
>>74018191
>Your fallen nature
and how does that look exactly? how would i look if some dude didnt eat an apple thousands of years ago?
>For the same reason that having a toy truck run over a spider-man action figure when you are 3 years old is not the same as driving over a mass of people with your truck while drunk when you are 40
the fuck are you even talking about? i asked why is inheriting the first sin different from inhereting your parents sin?
>whether you like it or not. God does what he does simply to invert the process and let us be united with him again.
and instead of just doing that he comes up with this 'just believe me or youll burn for eternity' game?
>You know that Jesus came and paid for us so that we don't have to pay for it, so yes, it is very merciful
jesus paid for our sins
believe in god or you will burn for your sins
>If he is the most perfect being in existence then his choices are also perfect, and logically your inability to see through their perfection is the consequence of your own imperfection and limitedness
could an ant call you smarter if it could make better decisions than you?
>I am not going to open this other topic though.
i dont need you to and i dont care, just think for yourself about criticisms of other religions and then apply the same scrutiny for your own
>>74019128
>and how does that look exactly?
Because you sin
>the fuck are you even talking about?
Someday you'll understand, hopefully
>and instead of just doing that he comes up with this 'just believe me or youll burn for eternity' game?
But it's exactly what he is doing, the two are not mutually exclusive. What you don't understand is that if he does not give you this choice, hell is the only possible choice. Without God you would end up in hell, which is a separation from God, 100% of the times.
>jesus paid for our sins
Jesus only pays for your sins if you believe in God and follow his commandments
I have to go. I suggest you read this book:
http://bookzz.org/book/2468541/667eb8
>>74019835
let me clarify: if you don't believe in Jesus and follow God's commandments it is an equivalent of rejecting his sacrifice, and that is why it does not count
>>74019835
>Because you sin
>Someday you'll understand, hopefully
>But it's exactly what he is doing, the two are not mutually exclusive. What you don't understand is that if he does not give you this choice, hell is the only possible choice. Without God you would end up in hell, which is a separation from God, 100% of the times.
i cant come up with arguments but i sure can just assert vague shit about nothing.
i would suggest you to grow out of your delusions (just remember if the spirit is actaully talking to you in real life, seek help)
>>74018526
Read through the old testament. It was Jesus who burnt down the cities on the plains. Jesus was the one stalking Jacob after he fled from Esau. He is literally the way between heaven and earth.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_26.cfm
Jesus said he's seen Abraham, and right after that identified himself as YHVH, which is why they tried to stone him, for blasphemy.
>>74020259
>He is literally the way between Heaven and Earth
That much we agree on.
Looking at the link...that kind of seems like a jump in conclusions formed from not fully thought through interpretations.
>Angel of the LORD
>is the LORD
Not sure If I can buy that. When the link says that the Angel of the LORD must be followed because it has his name in him, I feel and think that the person who wrote that page's information is taking it way too literal. To me, that means the the Angel of the LORD goes with his authority and command.
Furthermore, there is the discrepancy of the LORD being differentiated from the Angel of the LORD in scripture, such as the one in the link you posted.
>When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the LORD was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, "Enough! Withdraw your hand." The angel of the LORD was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite (2 Samuel 24:16).
But hey, as long as we can both agree that Jesus Christ is the literal way between Heaven and Earth, I see no reason for us to try and convince one another of conflicting views. I only presented my analysis of this for you to go over yourself, should you feel like doing so. Have a good one.
