Well, is it a right?
>>73987973
Its a right as much as an internet connection is
>>73987973
Rights don't exist. But if they did, yes you would have to say that health care and good health were absolutely human rights.
>>73988053
Literally how does an internet connection (a luxury) compare to the well-being of a person's own body?
No if they can't afford it.
Fucking socialist scum
>>73987973
>healthcare is a right
>rich people have to pay for both their' sand other people's
>>73987973
It is an entitlement. I recommend reading about positive and negative rights.
>>73988053
No. Life is a right.
You do not have a right to someone else's labor.
>>73987973
Something being a right doesn't mean that you don't have to pay for it.
Doctors have to be paid after all
>Enslaving doctors is a human right
Ayy!
Wealth is a human right
>>73987973
Positive and Negative rights.
The former endows freedoms to do by simply existing, the latter requires taking away the freedom of others.
In this case the right to life as taxes are extracted from your wealth and income which is the direct consequence of your life, body and its labour.
You have the right to life, not the right to make someone else take care of it.
>>73987973
Objectively not a right. He's been criticized for saying it because it is an indefensible lie.
>>73987973
Then maybe fat people should stop stuffing themselves with so much shit that they need five bypasses in ten years.
>>73987973
You have a right to health care the same way you have a right to own a gun.
But you have to pay for both the gun and the aspirin.
>>73988572
>your wealth
its you're*
geez summer came early this year
>>73988423
Yeah, like all the enslaved doctors in other countries with sane healthcare
>>73987973
Sex is a right. Not just in the sense that you should be allowed to pursue it, but that you should be supplied with it no matter who you are.
>>73988216
No it's not
>>73988182
>Rich people can afford to do that
I agree with him on this point
>>73988729
What would happen if all the doctors decided to quit? Who would fulfill the rights of the people to healthcare?
>>73987973
rights generally involve you telling other people to fuck off.
healthcare involves other people doing work for you. that's the opposite of telling someone to fuck off.
so no, healthcare is not a right.
>>73988880
Then the salary of a doctor would increase, and then more people would want to become a doctor.
Not when active, healthy people are paying for some fatass to get his stomach shrunk.
Whilst I don't think it should be abolished, the NHS has many, many flaws when it comes to who deserves treatment and who should pay for it
>>73987973
Sure, just like guns are. The state isn't gonna give it to you for free. There is nothing hindering you from healthcare aside from yourself.
>>73987973
Too bad he's arguing the American Dream be taken away for it.
>>73988093
>Literally how does an internet connection (a luxury) compare to the well-being of a person's own body?
for one, neither is mentioned in the fucking constitution
>>73988943
>implying supply and demand still apply under socialism
>>73989073
Yep. Spain has free healthcare and last time I checked demand and supply still aplied, cause we are capitalists
>>73988943
I agree that's probably what would happen, but that's not the point I was making. My point is that if you take the statement "healthcare is right" to its logical conclusion, you would have to force doctors to practice medicine, even if they didn't want to. So, the "right" to healthcare trumps the right against involuntary servitude. I cannot agree with this.
>>73987973
colleges and other frivolities should not be public, but primary care should be a right for everybody. how can allow someone to die from a easy to cure disease just because he didn't had enough money
>>73989122
>free healthcare
>capitalist
pick one
>>73987973
Define "right."
Define "health care."
>>73988943
>>73989122
>Supply and Demand
Do the doctors or the government call the shots on the prices?
If it's the government, then you're a retard.
If it's the doctors, then the doctors are still extracting taxes from the public through the government to whatever tone they want, because they have control of a literal monopoly.
Where's the competition?
>>73988182
everybody pay taxes ameridumb, and rich people most of the time don't
>>73989258
>how can you let poor people die
easy. don't treat them. nature does the rest.
>>73987973
You do not have a right to anything for free. He is wrong, as always.
In third world countries, it absolutely isn't a right. Bernie should focus on making America a proper first world country before he promises pipe dreams.
>>73989184
That's not really true, why do you have to force doctors to do anything? That's like saying that you are forcing people to become cops
>>73989122
>spaniards trying to show off their country's situation
HHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAH
>>73987973
bernie can believe health care is a right
bernie supporters can all believe health care is a right
but the people who control health care do not believe it is a right
thus health care is effectively "not a right"
welcome to the real world liberals!
>>73989392
cops get paid very little relative to importance/hazards of job
>>73989319
The government just copies the prices that private hospitals have, while trying to have a decent service.
>>73989392
That is because law enforcement is not a right, it is a duty of the state. You can argue that it is the duty of the state to provide some level of healthcare in service of keeping its citizenry alive and well, but claiming it is a right is a very different thing.
Free at the point of entry healthcare should only be a right to those who need the treatment through no fault of their own.
If you smoke 20 a day and develop a form of cancer then you should pay every fucking penny of the treatment. You stupid fuck.
>>73988216
life is a privilege. but it's not your right to force People to pay for your healthcare and shit.
>>73989454
Is somebody forcing them to become cops or what?
>>73989372
Ever since LBJ, Democrats have been the party of guilt projection and pipe dreams.
The promises were never meant to succeed. They were meant to fail so the next Democrat can follow up with more promises. This is what government looks like when the public has been beaten into dependence and forced to accept a corrupt school system where their kids get bullshit shoveled into their mouths each day like it's their job.
>>73987973
currently if you are suffering from a life threatening injury or giving birth for profit hospitals cannot turn you away even if you do not have insurance
it been like this since forever in america pretty much. obama care didnt force it and bernie must not know about it
>>73989327
>everybody pay taxes ameridumb, and rich people most of the time don't
this meme needs to end
>>73989511
Daily reminder smokers contribute 2x their cost to the NHS in added taxes.
I love how the left say that race, borders and gender are all social constructs (as if that's even an argument) yet they label things as "rights" willy nilly.
socialist health care works
>>73989372
America is literally a first world country... First world refers to the American/Western alliance during the cold war, 2nd world refers to the USSR, China, and the Eastern Bloc, and 3rd world are the countries too pathetic to be allied with either (Africa mostly)
>>73987973
Fuck no. Bernie doesn't understand the simplest aspects of economics.
There are not enough health care professionals to give everyone unlimited free health care. There are only so many trained doctors, nurses, and staff.
The supply of Practitioners is low, but the demand is high. The value of Practitioners is correspondingly higher. If Bernie implements universal free healthcare, we will have medical bread lines.
>>73988295
Just playing devil's advocate here.
What if you are paying for it?
Also what about the state that provides you with water and electricity? Are those rights?
>>73987973
Of course it is, you pack of third-world faggots.
>>73989589
if you really think that rich people don't evade taxes or create bank accounts on fiscal paradise to put all their corruption money, than you are a joo asslicker.
>>73987973
you already get emergency healthcare regardless of your ability to pay.
>>73989705
In America, electricity and gas are usually run by government contracted monopolies such as Commonwealth Edison and Nicor
>>73989494
Do we agree that life is a right?
>>73989705
>I'm paying for it
>the government gives it to me
Only one allowed.
Corrupt bureaucrats always hide behind a wall of false virtue from "providing" things right out of the public's pockets.
>>73989641
Doesn't matter. If you decide to do something that is unhealthy then you should pay all costs that come with it. People in the UK are happy to smoke, binge drink and eat until they're fat because they know that if they need medical care it will be free.
If you want to improve society and the population you do it by imposing financial risks on their bad decisions.
>>73988128
This.
>>73989789
>he's never taken a $1000 ambulance trip
>>73989327
Rich people pay more taxes than anyone and this colossal faggot want them to pay more. Wouldn't work anyways, as they would just move or hide their assets, fucking over our almost non existant middle class.
>>73987973
As long as you're willing to work for it, or have your family pay for it, or if you plan ahead and buy insurance.
Oh and as low nag as you don't try to steal my money to pay for your healthcare.
But then, after that, yes, you have a right to buy the best healthcare you can afford.
>>73989789
"Free health care" in US is a perfect example of what happens when the government rains free shit onto 'poor' people's heads.
Welfare mammys take their orclets to the ER for a common cold. Why? Because it's free!
Meanwhile, if you have a job then going to the ER because you got hit by a drunk driver will cost you tens of thousands. Why? Because LaQueesha's neglected kids being treated was free!
>>73989022
Taxes do not affect the "American dream", they existed at the inception of your nation, and your constitution discusses the government's ability to tax, to pay the nations debts, and for it's defense, and to provide for the general welfare of the people. But don't take my word for it, try reading it yourself. It's easy, you basically just do what you're doing right now, but to a different set of words.
Oh, and also, defacto universal healthcare because a right when Ronald Reagan signed off on the The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act in 1986, which compels er's to treat anybody in need, regardless of their ability to pay.
You lazy little children need to remotely aquatint yourselves with basic aspects of the topics that you spew soundbytes about.
Rights confer duties.
My right to life confers a duty on others not to murder me, for example.
I don't understand where this meme of positive and negative rights comes from. Nobody talks about it in academia because it's fucking dumb. All rights confer duties on others because if you have a right others must respect that right, which is an infringement on their freedom to act. I am free to murder you, but if you have a right to life my freedom to do that is curtailed.
Rights confer duties. That's what makes them rights instead of wants. I can want you to not murder me but that doesn't mean you have to not murder me. Only when I have a right to life (or not be murdered at least) do you have a duty not to murder me.
/pol/ needs to stop trying to understand philosophy desu.
>>73989958
Then it's not a fucking right you moron
>>73989881
>loose his job
>w-who will help me now
never forget 29 crisis and how liberalism fucked your ass
>>73987973
>My country has FREE healthcare
>It's so shit you're better off paying a private health company
>>73987973
You end rights by two ways:
crush them by government violence
or
drown them in government generosity.
Making everything a right is a way of killing the Constitution.
>>73989769
they dont evade tax they avoid them
big legal difference
On America they get it anyway so why does Bernie care? Its causing hospitals to hire less people and less qualified but will he say that? No just wants to give people muh bennies
>>73989988
fucking LEAF!
>>73989997
This is where liberalism's true face is exposed.
They confer upon others a duty to toil. Not for the benefit of themselves, nor for the benefit of everyone, but for the benefit of select persons whom the liberals choose to protect and empower.
It's a philosophy of theft and prejudice.
>>73990002
It's not? I have a right to a gun. No one will buy me a gun, but I have the right to buy one and own one if I can afford it.
>>73988691
This. Health care is available to you. It's not your right to have someone else pay for your shit.
>>73989798
The right to self defense and self preservation is legitimate. The right to make other people aid you in self preservation is not. If you give up your right to self preservation to be a part of a state, that does not imply that what you get in return, the state's pledge to protect your life, is a right as well. It's a duty of the state.
>>73989798
No life is a privilege. So is creating life. For too many years we've let the lesser races go on populating themselves unchecked.
But why the fuck goverment exist, if the citizens should do all the shit on their own?
>be russki
>sudennly appendicitis
>dying from pain
>go to hospital
>have surgery
>free medicines and food for one week
>your bill: 0$
Thank you based goverment.
>>73990173
Classical liberals included.
All rights confer duties, even the right to bear arms confers a duty on people to suffer the consequences of Cletus bearing his arms.
Your rights are a tyranny on others. That's how rights work.
Freedom is the enemy of civilisation. Go read about the state of nature.
>>73990337
I'm sure it was a lovely hospital and your Dr was extremely competent.
>>73989008
I agree with this.
Take healthcare away for fatties.
>>73990179
But it's a completely different matter. A gun is somewhat "dangerous" and has certain implications. Or would you say that you have the right to buy pizzas? Cause if the answer is yes we may not be on the same page
>>73987973
Doctors have rights too, and they should be able to charge for services rendered.
>>73988836
According to who?
What gives the poor the right to demand anything from the rich?
>>73988729
You seem to know very little about how healthcare in our country works.
Yes doctors are forced to work for people even when public healthcare does not cover the costs.
>>73988729
Japan has nationalized healthcare and everyone is covered, and in my experience it is good but not perfect.
But it is not a "right" in the sense of being an inalienable human right.
>>73989327
>everybody pay taxes
Only 47% of American pay any income tax at all.
>>73990473
Yes :^)
I was extremly surprised, my doctor was super polite and have sense of humor.
But you won't belive me, cuz "hurr durr, stupid russia is shit, tv told me so"
Bernie is a joke and we don't need free stuff otherwise there'll be more military cuts.
Hilary is a lying cheating cunt trying to escape the past and deny wrongdoing.
Trump is all right.
Honestly this whole election is a joke. The adults act like children nor do they planned ahead of time. Humanities studies, planned parenthood, any government funding that isn't necessary, shouldn't exist.
>>73987973
Sure. That doesn't for even a second mean that someone must provvide it for you though. I feel as though the confusion between rights and entitlements is a major point that needs addressing.
>>73987973
It's a stupid statement.
Something is a right only if the government enforces it. If we all agree that health care is a basic human right it means nothing. It means absolutely nothing. Only when you tax people and use that money to give everyone health care then it's a right.
To figure out whether or not health care is a human right you need to figure out whether or not the government is going to pay for your healthcare.
It's all about the framing. Instead of addressing the criticism he has recieved he is framing the issue as if all he's doing is defending a basic human right, and everyone hates him because he dared to say people deserve health care. It's the same tactic feminists use. Feminists do a lot of crazy shit, and when they get criticized they say ''huh, why do people hate us? We're just saying that women should be treated as well as men''. It's a dirty tactic. Pure mental gymnastics and language rape.
>positive rights
Tell me, why aren't you people so adamant at cutting all funding for roads, public schools, the military, a wall, police and fire protection, etc.?
Those are positive rights as much as universal health care. If you don't think health care should be a right because it's a positive right, then there's a very long list of government services you should be against. By your logic, a police officer is as much of a "slave" as a doctor under a universal health care system, especially when you consider police officers are forced to patrol black neighbourhoods which, in America, are far more trouble than they are worth. You could argue that inner city teachers are "slaves", again, according to this logic.
Even national defence is a positive right. The right to defend yourself and your property is a negative right. The right to a tax-funded, government-controlled military isn't.
Now, if you are in favour of cutting all those services, then there's nothing for me to argue about, since you're following a coherent, logical argument.
>>73990337
>But why the fuck goverment exist, if the citizens should do all the shit on their own?
This is a pretty good point. I don't get why poor people are supposed to feel compelled to obey the state under schemes like libertarianism in which the government exists solely to benefit the rich.
>>73989327
>rich people don't pay taxes
Literally google how much of income tax is paid by top 1%. I think they make like almost a third of total revenue for government. Fucking jungle nigger.
>>73987973
>>73988216
>healthcare is a right
>abortion is acceptable
Pick one leftists.
>inb4 strawman
Nope. Healthcare=promoting life, abortion=terminating a life
>>73991199
All of those can and should be privatized, other than the military.
>>73987973
>Sanders: Yes, health care is a right of all people, except the whites.
>>73989798
Read some Locke ffs
Rights don't exist
>>73991560
When did he say that?
hey guys just wanna ask something I've been curious about for ages
as a long-time NEET what would happen if I got hit by a car or something, got hospitalized, and since I have no insurance or income do I just get a free pass and dont have to pay any money? that's what I'm hoping
>>73991199
Just because the government gives you something that it's nice to have doesn't mean it's a human right. The government established national parks, but you wouldn't say you have a right to park visiting. Rights are guaranteed by the government, everything else is extra.
>>73987973
I normally don't agree with Rand Paul, he's kind of a faggot, but he made a good counterargument against this.
The moment you declare a public or private service to be a right - you are de-facto enslaving persons responsible for that service and holding them legally accountable if they fail to provide it.
>>73991199
The reason I dislike ''free'' healthcare is because it's shit and costs too much.
I lived in the UK and had to pay huge taxes to pay for fat people. When I needed to get health care I couldn't get it because of all the paper work, the lines and blatant unprofessionalism. With ''free'' healthcare you can't even get health care.
Now I live in Latvia and we don't have universal healthcare here. I can simply go to the doctor, pay 10 euros and be done with it. Doctors are great, the service is fast and there's very little paper work.
In the UK if I wanted to get a prescription for anti-depressants it would take me weeks and I'd have to pee in cups. Here it's instant.
I'd rather die than live in a country with ''free'' healthcare. Fuck that shit. Anyone who thinks it's a good idea should kill themselves.
>>73991199
>Tell me, why aren't you people so adamant at cutting all funding for roads, public schools, the military, a wall, police and fire protection, etc.?
These aren't rights, at least in America. For example, the government is not required to provide schools, and I don't have a right to an education. IE, if the government didn't provide me with an education, I could not compel it to do so.
>>73991445
A fetus is not a human being yet so the right to life does not apply to it.
I can pick both.
ITT: Conservashits who vote against their own interests to fatten corporate pockets
>>73992056
>A fetus is not a human being yet
>>73992133
Idiots who vote for free health care are voting against their own interests.
It's literally in no one's interest, except greedy power hungry politicians.
This obsession with taxing people to give them ''free'' shit is cancer.
>>73992247
Nope, it's just a clump of cells conservashit
>>73992056
If It isn't a human being, then why doesn't everyone get an abortion?
I mean they have some strange organism inside of them like a tapeworm
Why keep it?
>>73988182
Make 99% of the money, pay 99% of the taxes.
Simple as that.
>>73990339
You're twisting words.
A right to bread means someone else has the duty to sow, harvest, mill, and bake. A right to bear arms means the government has the duty to not interfere. It doesn't mean people have the right to shoot you in aggression.
>I want to live in a society where X part of society doesn't have Y rights
Then pick one and move there.
>>73992133
>its in the interests of poor unskilled peasants to import even poorer peasants from third world hellholes to compete and drive down their own wages
>its in the interests of people who want to leech off social services to import more leeches to spread the FreeShitLOL funbucks even further
>its in the interests of poor peasants who want jobs to drive up the cost of the minimum wage ensuring fewer people will have jobs
Er... explain?
>>73987973
I agree it is a right. But, just like any other right it doesn't mean the government must provide it. The second amendment doesn't get you a taxpayer funded personal arsenal.
Well it is a right if your government has deemed it a right.
But rights that governments create are positive and require some form of wealth redistribution.
Nobody can say that healthcare is a natural right though, that would be ridiculous.
>>73992281
> HURR DURR MUH FREE SHIT
Stay bootlicker faggot
>>73987973
Nothing that requires labour or resources is ever a right because to enforce it when there wasn't enough people to do it would be impossible, the only other alternative would be slavery.
>>73992320
https://youtu.be/fyKwybSueDE
>>73992601
> Ben ConservaKike Shapiro
> informal
straightintothetrashitgoes.jpeg
>>73992573
You're the one who wants to tax people and have cops collect the dosh, bootlicker.
I want to buy things with my own money without having to suck government and cop cock in the process.
>>73991199
>We need to channel money through a bureocratic filter to be able to build roads
>>73989705
If you pay for it then it's just an exchange of services
>>73991199
there should be an exclusive option to filter all canadians, I see you fucks all over the place saying stupid ass shit.
>>73992864
>you're the one who wants the extraordinary wealthy to keep dodging paying their fair share of taxes so that the middle and lower class can feel the tax burden, bootlicker.
>I want to buy things that turn our society into a serf society with my own money and suck down cocporate and cop cock in the process.
FFTY
>>73991199
For someone talking about logical, answer this then.
You are saying that because X is maintained by the government(military, police et.al), then there's no logically coherent argument for stopping the government from maintaining and operating XYZ(Healthcare etc).
I just think that's ridiculous personally, because then you are literally advocating for a state capitalist system, or a state socialist system.
>>73992859
Yup. No argument as usual, just "muh joos"
>>73988182
>police are a right
>rich people have to pay to protect other people.
we already all implicity agree to health care being a right: we don't poison the environment willfully; we don't make each other sick. we take vaccinations; we take medications. we go to doctors. we try to stay healthy. some of us even exercise and eat healthy. now the thing is some people have a limited opportunity at trying to be healthy by virtue of circumstances, or poor choices...but wouldn't it be better to live in a world wherein all of us, despite flaws and mistakes, can be given the opportunity to lead a healthy life? shouldn't that be a right in the same way that speech is a right? i find it tragic...well maybe that's not the right word - but confusing, at least, that people should want to find the right to speak their mind fundamental, but not the right to keep their mind healthy as such.
what strange times we live in.
it's like saying food it a right, you're not entitled to other people's work. You have to give something in return for their work. Now if he's saying you should have the right to pay for health care, as in they can't send you away (which i highly doubt) maybe it makes some sense?
We can't have nice things in this country because of the plethora of lower/working class conservashits that have been conditioned for years to vote against their own economic interests in favor of corporations shitting on workers rights
There is no such things as rights. Any time you believe you have a right for something you are simply building up expectations and setting yourself up for disappointment when the indifferent universe doesn't cater to your precious "rights".
>>73987973
It's not a fucking right. It's a privilege.
>>73988216
Life is a human right. "Healthcare" is not a human right. You do not have an inate human right for other people to be forced at gunpoint to pay for your wellbeing. You have a right to protect and preserve your own health in any way you desire, so long as you are not infringing on the human rights of others (so holding others at gunpoint and making them pay your hospital bills is also not a right). If you have friends, it is within your rights to ask them to help you pay for your health, and it is within their rights to say yes or no.
>>73993172
I'm talking about positive rights vs. negative rights, which has been argued by several people as the reason against making health care a right.
The right to all those government services (including national defence) are positive rights, which logically lumps them together with health care.
I'm not arguing in favour of or against health care in my argument. I'm arguing for logical coherence.
>>73993027
Actually, re-read my post. It's very clear.
>>73992247
Never said it's not alive. Dogs are alive but they are not humans.
>>73992328
Because if you don't abort a fetus it becomes a child, tapeworms just stay tapeworms.
>>73989067
Notice that the Dutch literally blew the entire argument the fuck out and nobody has responded to him yet.
>>73993645
>The right to all those government services (including national defence) are positive rights
Yes, but the reasoning for having military and police is to protect people, which is something that exists whether a government supplies it or not, i.e self-defence or private protection.
In fact, one of the first major police agencies in America was a private company. Before it came to the fore, people simply owned a gun, and had a fat sheriff and his deputy in their town.
>>73993699
This . An unwanted pregnancy is an issue only abortion can solve . child adoption is not
Conservashits have no rights trying to control others people's bodies because muh Jesus feels
>>73994009
>An unwanted pregnancy
A pregnancy isn't unwanted if you willingly had sex.
>>73987973
You are not entitled to other people's labor.
Thought we settled this a while ago?
>>73987973
It's not a right if it's obligatory
>human beings are inherently entitled to the labor of doctors
NOPE
>>73987973
Whether or not it is a right, Sandlers' plan is beyond moronic: it is massively destructive.
Take your shilling elsewhere, liberal cultist.
>>73987973
no
i would not give it to terrorists for example unless i need them alive for a bit longer and then i execute them
>>73987973
No, it isn't. It's called entitlement and considered a bad thing.
>>73994009
>have sex without condom or birth control
>get pregnant
>"oops! Better end this kid's life"
Not if he's white you're not.
>>73987973
>its a right because I said so!
>>73993399
weird I swear that the dems had successfully passed the ACA requiring NO REPUBLICAN VOTES meaning that they could have given us single payer instead of corporate welfare, interesting! (:
>>73993924
Well yeah, there's no argument for it from an American perspective without severely perverting the whole 'pursuit of happiness' thing. It's an individualistic society and always has been, unlike Europe which has always had a big emphasis on smaller communities working in closer proximity for not other reason than geography.
Eurocucks and deluded burgers don't get it because they dont see how it wouldn't work. Probably because they've never had to wait an hour in an ER with a concussion and some gashes that needed stitches.
>>73993988
>Yes, but the reasoning for having military and police is to protect people, which is something that exists whether a government supplies it or not, i.e self-defence or private protection.
You can argue the same for any service. Health care, education, etc. won't go away because the government has stopped funding it.
Defending yourself and your property is a negative right, since for the government to take it away, it has to do something. Being forced to pay taxes for a military that may or may not protect you isn't included in that right. Although, as you said, you could always directly pay for private protection.
>>73994455
> hurr durr people enjoy getting abortions
> fetus = MUH CHILLUN
Conservashit logic
>>73987973
When will this rights meme die? There are no such thing as rights. The right wing is all "muh rights" the left wing is all "muh rights". Rights don't fucking exist. There are no mystical rights police here to protect your rights.
>>73987973
It should be. I'm voting for Trump btw.
>>73988128
>>73988182
>>73989522
>>73993619
Sorry, all I can hear is ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME when I read your blather.
>>73987973
Americans have the right to bear arms but that doesn't mean everyone gets free guns.
>>73987973
No. No natural right requires the labor of other human beings.
A thought exercise: if no one wants to be doctors or nurses, who would be forced to provide healthcare?
>>73989823
>utilities are a right because I pay for them
By that logic, healthcare should be a right because I pay for it through MSP premiums and taxes.
>>73994611
Your posts aren't even coherent anymore.
A fetus is a human in its earliest stages- it does not simply "become a human" once you feel like it, and it is alive. This is backed by science.
Once the sperm and the egg meet, you have created life. A human life. Ending a human life is murder.
Mind you I'm "pro-choice" because most aborted babies were gonna grow up with shitty parents anyway (it's eugenics at work), but it's still murder.
>>73994573
>You can argue the same for any service. Health care, education, etc. won't go away because the government has stopped funding it.
So then, you think buying shoes is a positive right?
>>73990735
>doctors are forced
>forced
It doesn't work then.
>>73988093
Medical Attention is a good and a service provided by healthcare workers, if you do not pay, why should they sacrifice their own money and time to attend to a homeless liberal arts student that will never provide to society?
>the government should spend more money fucking over people -- including theirs -- instead of helping them
>all of you are so indoctrinated by years of zionism plaguing the media and red pill meme magic that you side with them
There's no reason why people shouldn't have health care in a capitalist society.
>increase taxes on wealthy
>use all of the money to actually help the citizens
But no, that won't happen ever
Might as well go take that free land in Russia and renounce my citizenship
>>73990337
Oh yeah.
>grandfather is dying - his smoking finally caught up with him
>we go to hospital
>queue is two years ahead, so fuck you, we are not going to operate him ahead of queue, let him die
>we end up paying astronomical sum in bribes to save his life and operate him NOW.
I wish you the same situation.
>>73994870
If you wanna split hairs, murder =! killing. It is definitely killing human life, whether its murder depends on whether its legal.
>>73995109
>government
>implying they have any interest in "helping the people"
>implying taxes are collected for the intent of helping you
>implying raised taxes will ever go back down without a radical change in leadership
You're being fucked over when someone takes money out of your paycheck, not when someone else makes more money than you.
>>73995109
Like I said , until the boomers, who are in large part conservative , we won't have nice things in society until millienials take over
So is owning guns, but you also have to pay for those.
>>73992056
An apple is not an apple until it falls from the tree.
A fetus is a life.
>>73992320
So are you retard.
>>73995231
U right u right
>>73992343
Okay so are you willing to do all of that work and lose all of your money after working so hard for it?
>>73995380
Take a look at this picture of the growth cycle of an apple. Under your logic, they are all equally viable commodities that we could take to market, correct? Surely, I know which I would pay for.
>>73995689
>Under your logic, they are all equally viable commodities that we could take to market, correct?
Let me just go rip all the buds out of your apple trees. You won't mind since they have no value, right? It doesn't matter since they're not apples?
>>73992343
The top 1% make about 50% of all income and pay about 50% of all taxes (at least in America). Seems fair to me.
Join the military or plan enough to get a job that provides it. How much coddling do they need?
>>73995790
No one is ripping non-viable fetuses from women's wombs, man.
>>73995689
What are you even talking about? They are all of the species of the apple tree, it just takes a bit for full development.
>>73995898
Literally what abortion doctors do
>>73995898
Then why is it double-homicide to kill a non-person if I only killed a pregnant woman?
Either apple buds have value and you have a reason to stop me from stripping your orchard of all budding life, or everything that's not an apple or a baby emerged from a vagina is worthless.
GERMAN MEDIA LITERALLY LYING ABOUT TRUMP
>>73995543
>>73987973
MY RIGHTS END WHERE YOURS BEGIN
MY
Y
RIGHTS
I
G
H
T
S
END
N
D
WHERE
H
E
R
E
YOURS
O
U
R
S
BEGIN
E
G
I
N
>>73996039
Not absent consent of the patient. Jesus Christ.
>>73993197
You seem to be mistaken. Owning a gun to protect yourself is a right, the police state isn't. It's a service you are force to pay for.
>>73987973
No, it's not. If you're not intelligent enough to find work to pay for your medical insurance, you should die. And when the retards of the world are removed, it will be a better place.
Remember, most of the kebab is retarded.
Healthcare should be a right* yes. Sanders is correct here.
**not guaranteed quality care
>>73987973
whatever is or isnt a right is entirely subjective
this is a fact of ALL rights
>>73996114
I could consent to being killed too, doesn't make it right.
>>73996114
Conservashits are un educated retards so you just need a trendmendous amount of patience to argue rational educated points with them . They are used to being spoon fed by corporate overords and Jesusfags
>>73995279
You should move to Denmark or Sweden.
>>73996073
Because those statutes - which are not in force in every jurisdiction - are a heavily politicized attempt to grant person-hood to non-viable fetuses. Suddenly you've forgotten that politicians make laws?
>>73987973
Yes, everyone should have a right to care for their own health. But it's not like it was ever forbidden...
>>73988295
Explain why education is a right then? Legitimately curious why this argument doesn't hold for teachers, principals, etc.
Yeah it's a right. You can't get denied for preexisting conditions any more
>>73995689
By your logic everything but the finished apple isn't an apple you stupid fuck.
>>73988729
well i have to wait 2 months to get a doctor's appointment sometimes. don't pretend like our system isn't fucked by the leeches
>>73987973
If health care is a right, then the govt has the authority to force someone to provide health care at gun point. That doesn't seem like the smartest of ideas in my honest opinion.
>>73989122
you don't have free healthcare, you pay lots of taxes for it, just like us
>>73996522
Doctors aren't people, anon.
>>73994663
>says anon who thinks he is entitled to other people's services paid for by other people's money
WAAAAAAAAH ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME
WHY DON'T RICH PEOPLE WANNA PAY FOR MY MEAGRE EXISTENCE WAAAAAAAAAH
>>73996459
I think the ultimate point is that the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Many people believe a human being with full personhood and legal rights begins at conception. That is fine. However, I and the Supreme Court disagree, and prefer a more nuanced, carefully considered approach that seeks to adequately balance the competing interests of the non-viable fetus and the very viable mother.
>>73988706
>extracted from you are wealth
You're retarded
>>73996756
So all people who are retarded/disabled and thus not viable as a person in the same way as a healthy one is, it's okay to kill them?
Friendly reminder that Amerifats pay most taxes towards the healthcare system in the world without even getting healthcare.
>>73996971
VOTE TRUMP
>>73992343
>Do 99% of the work
>Provide 99% of the capital
>Take 99% of the risks
>>73996910
>retarded people
>people
Euthanasia should be a thing. If I knew that my mental capabilities would diminish to the dog-like, I would certainly wanted for someone to kill me right after that.
A service provided by someone else cannot be a right.
>>73988197
Him. He's answered correctly.
>>73987973
>ITT people who don't know or don't believe in natural rights and natural law
Wew.
>>73987973
Nope.
>>73987973
What about my right to keep the money I earned?
>>73989067
>implying there was health care and internet when the constitution was made
>>73996910
Without getting too much into semantics, I think the case of the mongoloid provides a significantly different question of "viability" than the fetus.
I think the better comparison would be someone on life support. IE - but for the life support, the person could not exist. But for the mother's womb, the fetus could not exist. And much like a mother is the only person that can choose to abort her fetus, a next of kin is the only person that can choose to take someone off of life support (in the absence of a pre-existing DNR order).
No.
>>73997499
M8, the only natural right is to try to survive by any means avaiable, and the only natural laws are physics and Darwin.
No.
It's not a right, but thus far the federal government of the US of A isn't prohibited from "socializing" it. Let them do it if they want. Providers will take a hit. My father's a dentist and he hates the idea, because of a loss of 'control'. The fact is - those who actually go to your state general assembly, the legislature every single fucking day are the people influencing these ideas, bills, and laws. If you want to change anything go to the STATE LEGISLATURE daily! Blogging won't help. We've got an oversaturated media.
Photo source: Bailey J. Arber from California
>>73997499
if you like natural right and natural law so much enjoy your matriarchy
>>73987973
there's no such thing as a "right" that forces other people to take care of you.
>>73997884
fat
asses
get
heart disease
also no one gives a shit about who took that piece of shit picture, this isn't /gif/
>>73987973
If it is a right for me to have healthcare, can I force a doctor to care for me?
If there are no doctors around, can I force someone to become a doctor so they can take care of me?
>>73997418
Of course it can. It just requires force.
>>73987973
Surely it's good health that should be considered a right? Health care would imply that someone else is giving up their time and resources in order to sustain yours like some vampire shit.
>>73998087
desu doctors should be legally bound by the Hippocratic Oath to help any person in need regardless of finance
>>73989067
/thread
>>73987973
No. No one owes you anything. If you think otherwise, kill yourself ASAP.
>>73998087
Yes in civilized countries you can go to a hospital and then the doctor will help you.
>>73989067
in the EU an internet connection is a fundamental human right senpai
>>73998279
Not even the right for education (not talking about school, i am talking about basic human education)?
>>73987973
Yes. People shall die on the streets no more.
>>73997793
>implying there was health care and internet when the constitution was made
They absolutely had doctors and healthcare are you actually retarded? Also, the way they transported information back then was by courier and they didn't declare those a human right.
>>73987973
So he's saying doctors are slaves? I can just knock on a doctor's door say "treat me without payment" and they have to do it? Because that's what Bern-out is saying.
>>73989067
>well-being of a person's own body
Is problem of person's in this body. If universal healthcare is going to be a thing, I want for the universal obligation to eat healthy and train regularly to be a thing.
>>73987973
Is USA going to sponsor healthcare all over the world?
Thats cool thanks USA
>>73989444
>welcome to the USA and some countries in Africa, normal people who can go to a doctor.
>FTFY
>>73989008
Or someone with a brain tumor having to wait his turn while little Bobby Joe gets his tennis elbow treated
>>73997884
>but thus far the federal government of the US of A isn't prohibited from "socializing" it
Yes they are. Literally the constitution.
>>73987973
All you ever need to know about Bernfags.
>>73998678
Hmm. . .
>>73987973
>It is the right of the people to force individuals who spent years & thousands of dollars developing skills to provide those skills for free
What is slavery?
>>73998522
They had madman who were creating medicine.
The hygiene levels going up made the life expectancy go up more then the so called "advances" in medicine.
>>73999002
>to provide those skills for free
They never said that silly! They're just going to use men with guns to take money from you and me to pay them!
>>73999002
see this
>>73998172
Besides, they would not be working for free. American Taxes would be used to pay the doctors that are saving american lifes.
what about ficki ficki
>>73999176
You may believe that but the architects of the constitution used doctors and recognized their value. They still didn't believe medical care was a human right. Feel free to have an argument any time.
>>73996426
I would say that education isn't a right. The reason we publicly fund it is because it's an investment that massively pays off in the long run. I would also argue that you're not imposing on the workers (teacher/doctor) but on the taxpayer because they're footing the bill. The person paying property taxes benefits from having their kids go to a good school. A taxpayer does not benefit from paying for Jamal's doctor visit
The reason people think healthcare is a human right is because it's so important to the health and wellbeing of a people. If everyone's sick and dying, shit sucks, therefore we need the government to step in and provide a solution.
When you think about it though, food is even more important to the health and wellbeing of a people. Sure cancer sucks and broken bones need to be healed, but those aren't going to kill you faster than starving. Why isn't food a human right?
