Free trade is economically awesome. It does not cut jobs, it promotes jobs. Basically a free trade country allows importers to provide cheap products to America increasing the wealth of Americans.
Then the wall. As Milton Friedman has often said, the only type of migration that is beneficial to America, is illegal immigration. Because illegals do not have rights for social welfare and taxpayer funding like social security. So they just work for little money without taking anything out of the taxpayer funds system.
>friedman says illegal immigrants are beneficial
>friedman
>>73982885
Its not about being against the free market. Its about doing business with foreign governments that practice extreme judiasm.
>>73982885
It also makes nations reliant on whichever other nation has the cheapest labour, whose economy begins to grow. In some cases it forces nations to engage in the acceptance of slavery since the perrogative of a financial group is to maximize profit
It makes it so these same groups have an open road to other unethical forms of maximizing profit, at the expense of state and people.
And of course, eventually a free market will create a conglomerate of elitists who
, having been able to expand their power ever more, control state and media and then the people, a slippery slope to more ways of maximizing profit, and a slow slide into plutocratic societies (Ring a bell?)
Free market is the jews's wet drem, which is why there are so many in bilderberg for example.
From that vantage point, they can manipulate the world, and knowing their past actions and current ideologies, its not for the best. (Again, ring a bell?)
The international market should have a set of rules that maximizes the potential for profit while making it impossible for it to temper with state or people. When put in place (but sufficient space of course) the corporate is the third and final piece for the perfect trifecta of state, people and economy, that should interconnect and intercommunicate but never mutate each other.
>>73982885
>TPP
>has anything to do with trade
fucking idiot.
Friedman also said that welfare is cancer so that's it.
>>73982885
Because other countries abuse the system and its not free trading at all. They do not float their currencies and they put taxes on shit anyway. Not a free market, period.
>>73982885
ever heard of sanctuary cities dipshit?
the whole concept of them is to give illegals some form of benefits.
also, legislation like the dream act only furthers the desire for illegals to come to this country, further fucking over natives or legal immigrants like myself.
I also hate h1b1 immigration, shits cuts into my job opportunities, I hope trump eventually sees that it is bad for American workers and cuts it back.
>>73982885
>Free trade is economically awesome.
The "free trade deals" aren't free trade though.
>>73985235
>In some cases it forces nations to engage in the acceptance of slavery since the perrogative of a financial group is to maximize profit
Most trade America does is with countries which have no slavery.
>>73985235
>And of course, eventually a free market will create a conglomerate of elitists who
>, having been able to expand their power ever more, control state and media and then the people
Has never happened before, why should it ever happen?
>>73985235
>Free market is the jews's wet drem, which is why there are so many in bilderberg for example.
Ad hominem. Israel is actually a completely anti-free trade socialist hellhole. Free market has nothing to do with Jews, and everything with economics.
>>73985235
>The international market should have a set of rules that maximizes the potential for profit while making it impossible for it to temper with state or people.
Those are called free trade rules of the WTO.
>>73985502
>Friedman also said that welfare is cancer so that's it.
Welfare IS cancer.
>>73985577
>They do not float their currencies and they put taxes on shit anyway. Not a free market, period.
So you do not understand how trade and floating currencies work, do you? If a country tries to manipulate its currency to export more cheaply, what happens is that they get dollars when selling their products... what do they do with dollars they get? If they want to convert them into their own currency, that currency will appreciate vs. the dollar. If they do not, the dollar is just sitting there doing nothing. If they use those dollars to invest in America, what they are actually doing is creating jobs in America!
>>73985824
>Has never happened before, why should it ever happen?
Get off 4chan Merkel
>>73985824
>Has never happened before, why should it ever happen?
you are delusional.
this whole thread has to be bait.
>>73985682
>the whole concept of them is to give illegals some form of benefits.
>some form
not any federal welfare and big ticket payments. Completely irrelevant.
>>73985682
>legislation like the dream act only furthers the desire for illegals to come to this country, further fucking over natives or legal immigrants like myself.
How? Again, illegal immigrants do work for low wages and add to society without taking anything out of it. This is basically like someone who comes to your party uninvited to make you food and clean up afterwards and the only thing he or she wants is to dance for 30 min.
>>73986095
>How? Again, illegal immigrants do work for low wages and add to society without taking anything out of it. This is basically like someone who comes to your party uninvited to make you food and clean up afterwards and the only thing he or she wants is to dance for 30 min.
>he thinks illegals don't get welfare benefits
>>73986070
Name a globalist entity which controls the state and media.
>>73982885
>Free trade doesnt cut jobs
So there is no scarcity when it comes to jobs? Yet their is scarcity for every other economic variable?
Are there no costs associated with looking for a new job? Unemployment, or retraining for a new job?
The difference in the cost of living in 3rd world countries and America essentially always give the 3rd world countries a comparative advantage when it comes to providing labor. A country can also manipulate its currency so that its essentially always cheaper to outsource labor.
For such an outspoken "free market" capitalist, Friedman sure does seem to like allowing foreign governments to dictate the rules and pick winners and losers. Basically all free trade does it allow China to pick winners and losers instead of allowing the US government to pick winners and losers. The current free trade/free market system is not in any way a free market, and different nations are competing under completely different rule sets, and are essentially allowed to dictate the rules and pick winners and losers, which kikeman frequently whines about in his writings about the US Government.
Trump is a faux populist. He only says stuff that appeals to the dumbest of dumb voters. He literally said yesterday we should "print more money" to solve all of our problems. He's economically illiterate dangerous retard.
>>73986148
>>he thinks illegals don't get welfare benefits
They do not get Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP or social security which make up 90% of welfare benefits.
>>73982885
> increasing the wealth of Americans.
> So they just work for little money without taking anything out of the taxpayer funds system.
>>73986290
Wrong.
>>73986227
>So there is no scarcity when it comes to jobs?
No, you know why? Because otherwise a country with 10 million people should have the same number of jobs as a country with 100 million people. Unemployment is a structural problem, not a problem of scarcity.
>Yet their is scarcity for every other economic variable?
No, economic variables are rarely constrained by scarcity. For instance there is no scarcity when looking at GDP growth or inflation or trade deficits or budget surpluses or HDI etc. Not sure what the fuck you are talking about.
>>73986227
>Are there no costs associated with looking for a new job? Unemployment, or retraining for a new job?
There is, but we do not pay for illegal aliens' search for a new job... precisely because they are illegal.
>muh liberturdian kool-aid
Literally nobody cares what you think, fuck off back to your autism echo chamber on r/ancap
Ilegals do receive social welfare and taxpayers do fund their shitty lives, fuck they probably are even allowed to vote because it's free votes for democucks
Just end yourself, /pol/ grew out of their libertarian teenage phase years ago
>>73982885
Isn't Clinton for TPP? I never knew trump was against it. Holy shit if it comes down to Clinton vs Trump (which it will) instead of not voting I might just vote Trump.
>>73982885
The TPP is the most evil document ever drafted. If it actually was a free trade doc then fine but its not so fuck you german ahkmed. You got the first taste of free trade on muslim refugees, hows that working out for you? Fikki Fikki
>>73986290
Lol, you deluded faggot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAfz4zg65S0
>>73982885
>hollowing out our countries communities is worth giving international conglomerates, who have no loyalty or interest in the long term prosperity of the state, more shekels
forgive me if i'm not exactly thrilled at the (((opportunity)))
>>73986637
>Holy shit if it comes down to Clinton vs Trump (which it will) instead of not voting I might just vote Trump.
Why? Do you want more joblessness and less prosperity because of fewer trade?
>>73986650
>You got the first taste of free trade on muslim refugees, hows that working out for you?
The problem with our Muslim migrants isn't that they are coming, the problem is that we have A. welfare which we pay to them and to German welfare queens, which is the biggest mistake ever and B. lax criminal laws for criminal migrants.
But if we had no welfare for them and tough criminal laws and free labor laws, those migrants would be good for the economy, becuase we could pay them 1 Euro per hour and use their labor to get more competitive products.
The tpp does not help out the American worker. It just outsources their jobs, fucks the internet up, and raises corporations to the literal power level of every government on this planet.
>>73987035
>pretending TPP is a good thing
>>73982885
What do highly regulated trade agreements that violate national sovereignty have to do with free markets? Why are you using words without knowing what they mean?
>>73987178
>It just outsources their jobs
It only outsources jobs which are not competitive to foreign country companies. Those jobs are inefficient. It is more efficient to import goods from abroad if they can be produced there cheaper.
Americans can then do other jobs and be wealthier.
>>73982885
Free trade within a country is good. Global free trade is bad.
>>73987209
>What do highly regulated trade agreements that violate national sovereignty have to do with free markets?
Why don't you actually read up a bit on TTP. It essentially reduces tariffs and non-tariff barriers. That is ALL it does.
https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/trans-pacific-partnership/tpp-full-text
>>73982885
>Welfare state
>Open borders
does not compute
>>73987403
>Free trade within a country is good.
Yes.
>Global free trade is bad.
Why should that be? So you are saying that a T-shirt which can be made for 70 cents in India should actually be produced for 5 dollars in America? Why? This will increase the price for products. Why would that make any sense?
>>73985946
THATS STILL NOT A FREE MARKET
>>73982885
Free trade is fucking retarded.
>>73982885
He reminds me of late 19th and early 20th century American politician (of both parties). Protectionists. Only based Grover Cleveland was against it.
>>73982885
Friedman also said that you can't have free immigration and welfare state at the same time, what now communist?
Illegal immigrants put an enormous strain on the taxpayer. They're benefiting from an infrastructure and public systems they pay nothing towards maintaining. They also create severe pressure on salaries and invite labor exploitation of the domestic worker. That's just disregarding other factors like crime and social unrest that kills off local property value and purchasing power.
>>73986290
so you went from saying they don't take any, now you admit they take out of the 10%
correcting the record I see
>>73986562
haha yeah lolbertarians are so dumb
also we should give up our guns
>>73982885
>As Milton Friedman has often said,
Heh heh heh, stupid goyim.
>>73987502
india does not have a free market
>>73987410
I did "read up" on it. I suggest you do to. It is the most tightly regulated and unfree market system to date. It goes as far as giving US corporations power over regional internet laws.
>>73982885
>TPP
>free market
>illegals coming to murrika to work
>rather than to get anchor babies and live off of welfare
wew lad
>>73986149
The Clinton Foundation.
>>73987584
the post that destroyed OP
In theory it's good, but it fucked us hard here. Jobs move from here, to the US, then down to Mexico.
Why pay workers here $35 per hour when you can pay them $16 per hour for the same job in the US?
>>73987442
This. both are shit possitions alone but they are at least defensible. But put open boarders and welfare together and you have gone full retard. Thats like trying to heat the world by turning on you heater and opening your windows in the middle of winter.
>>73982885
Free trade would be great if countries like China didn't exist. If every country involved in these agreements treated their workers like humans and paid more than 10 cents an hour, then no problemos. Except that doesn't happen, so you have people there making products for dirt cheap, exporting and undercutting American made products thus hurting lower/middle class American jobs, to send money out of the country to government run companies in Ching Chong land.
>>73982885
>TPP
>free market
Get the fuck out of here
>>73987892
It's not "good" in theory either. There is a reason "illegal" means against the law.
>>73982885
>Protectionnism is bad, open your borders and let the scums of the earth enter in your country either leeching warfare and raising insecurity or dumping salaries to shit. Everything while your middle class is declining and quality of life is sinking while the top of the upper class becomes richer and richer.
Sure mate, go die in hell.
>>73987584
>Friedman also said that you can't have free immigration and welfare state at the same time, what now communist?
Yes, that is what I am saying. The welfare state cannot be there for the illegal immigrants. They can only work, but not get benefits.
Free Market is a meme spread to essentially mean Jewish financial buttrape free-for-all
You may as well legalize taking debts in the form of a pound of flesh.
>>73987594
>so you went from saying they don't take any, now you admit they take out of the 10%
No, I just pointed out they do not get 90% of the welfare. I do not know if they get food stamps etc. I assume not.
>>73982885
yes but when these illegal immigrants have children on american soil the child is automatically elligible for american citizenship and so welfare
very short term thinking
>>73986149
Literally the EU
>Free trade requires corporations to be able to sue governments for lost profits
>>73987502
>Why should that be?
Because other countries do not also believe in a free market philosophy, namely our biggest trading partner, China. It's like saying a free market exists when there are two companies, but one has the vast majority of market share because of collusion with the State, and the other company is observing "free trade", only on a macro scale.
>>73987757
>The Clinton Foundation.
You are kidding? The Clinton Foundation isn't running anything.
>>73986290
Fun fact, Kraut: the way to stop illegals from gaining those is literally a form that says "are you an illegal immigrant, yes or no?"
If they check 'NO', they get all those things. Very little else is necessary. If they need a social security number, they can get one for about $50.
>>73982885
>free trade AND globalization
Yes! Lots of gains to be made for those on the bottom (i.e. everyone besides America)
>work without taking anything out
Except for their
>hospital visits
>school for their """legal"""" kids
>welfare for their """legal"""" kids
>taking jobs
>driving down wages
>driving up crime
>>73987942
Not to mention the tariffs on our exports and the intentional devaluation of their currency.
>>73988073
Even in the shortest term, it is not beneficial. You and OP must hail from the Bernie Sanders school of economics that genuinely believes infrastructure grows on trees.
Because Republicans have been redpilled that capitalism is shit. We need national socialism.
>>73982885
>Free trade is economically awesome. It does not cut jobs, it promotes jobs. Basically a free trade country allows importers to provide cheap products to America increasing the wealth of Americans.
>>73986149
If you control the media and entertainment you control the politic majority, today western leaders are globalist puppets.
>>73988116
Your biggest trade partner is Canada.
>>73986227
Scarcity is only set by productivity. There is not scarcity for all economic variables.
The biggest issue with free trade are short-term adjustment costs. However, there is also a trade-off, as some particular loses big in a country (and that's why they have so much political say) but, overall, consumers gain ever more.
>>73982885
Because it's not fair to compete against companies that use literal slave labor.
>TPP
>free market
Shiggy
>>73988226
>he way to stop illegals from gaining those is literally a form that says "are you an illegal immigrant, yes or no?"
Not correct. You need a social security number and have to check out as not being an illegal to get social security or Medicare or Medicaid. I have lived in the US and unless I had a permanent resident visa / later on US citizenship, I would not be eligible for any of these programs
>>73988382
its a saturday and you are in sunny portugal. go get wasted on the beach.
>>73988396
Shills have been increasingly using the poorly informed in such a way that they present a blatant lie and then force their audience argue against a made up premise.
We have lost a gigantic portion of our manufacturing jobs in America, and the economic resources still haven't totally reallocated to other industries as theorized by free-traders. We are competing against countries that use slave-like wages, tariffs on US goods, and currency manipulation. There is no level playing field here.
Sure, we have cheaper products, but at what cost?
Also, Illegals can get shit from the government, especially if they pop out a Kid.
>>73988338
Yet you also claim people do not trust the media. In fact, you see the media saying people do not trust them lol
>>73988412
White Europeans don't have the access to funding that advocate interest groups provide for Mexicans in the US. Also, the US does provide emergency service for the homeless, which is something illegals take advantage of instead of getting treatment in their country.
>>73982885
Friedman was right in that illegals are preferable to legals but when illegal immigrants ARE given federal benefits, are not working "jobs nobody else wants to", and number in the tens of millions, then it's no longer feasible to have completely unmitigated immigration. Further, Friedman ignores the security concernss of illegal immigration, which far outweighs any economic benefits that may have occurred.
As for free trade, there's no such thing as a free trade agreement that's tens of thousands of pages. As good as the free market is, to compete with countries like China where workers have slave-like conditions would require American workers to work under similar conditions,. America's greatest advantage is that we have the world's most desired market of 300 million materialist plebs willing to buy anything for any price, and elevating that consumer-base out of the hands of those whom we can't compete with seems at this point to be the best strategy.
>>73988483
It has been raining a lot in Portugal this past week. Today, a mall in Lisbon was flooded lol
>>73988412
Excellent job not reading the second line of my post, cabbage-breath.
Ask any doctor in California, when you start your residency you learn this word, "Empujar".
You will be telling that to mexican women between the ages of 14 and 40 many dozens of times a day, as they squeeze a brand new american citizen out of their big bell beefer between their legs. Oh, and they walk out with three new Social Security numbers too; one for mama, one for "papa", and one for little mijo. It's a good thing liberals fill those places with social workers so they don't even have to leave the building to get their medicare, medicaid, SNAP, EIC, CHIP, and anything else they need.
>>73986149
the EU
>>73988387
>Because it's not fair to compete against companies that use literal slave labor.
This is a BS liberal communist argument. Chinese aren't slave labor, Vietnamese aren't, Indians aren't, Polish aren't, Romanians aren't, Brazilians aren't, Japanese and Germany aren't.
What slave labor? Slave labor doesn't produce iPhones or IKEA furniture or cars or laptops or ships or lithium etc.
>>73988345
Sorry, what would be our biggest trade partner if not for their unfair practices.
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/top/top1312yr.html
They're jewing us. The total trade isn't much lower considering the trade deficit.
>>73982885
Mexicans receive every benefit offered inaAmerica. If you love Mexicans and muslim leaches so much then save their life by getting them out before whitey goes ham and kills every fucking one.
>>73982885
This is great for corporations and shit for the American workforce in general. GDP up but the average income goes down. Economy might look great but the American worker just gets fucked by it.
>>73988935
So does this mean you would advocate for the minimum wage to be lowered to one of those country's levels? Because I know in Mexico it's something like $50 a week. Perhaps that contributes to why those countries with near-zero minimum wage are awful pieces of shit?
>>73988982
Well said... sort of.
>tfw you were born just in time to experience a global racewar
>secretive government intervention is free market
>shills who keep blaming the "free market" have been talking about secretive government intervention since the very start
>>73988825
Birth right citizenship is a uniquely American problem. You can easily change it. It is not in the constitution that illegal immigrants need to get citizenship kids. The 14th amendment just says "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
If illegal parents aren't officiall residing in America and are definitely not subject to the jurisdiction of the USA, then why should their kids be Americans?
>>73982885
>Why is Trump and why are Trump supporters so anti free market?
We're not.
We think the best way forward is a temporary step back. Educate the masses on Pandora's box - let it rip.
>>73988412
> Germany trying to enlighten us on immigration
>>73988911
>>73988078
they don't own the media nor the state though
>>73982885
Free trade promotes jobs alright, in third world, cheap labor locations.
>>73989143
>So does this mean you would advocate for the minimum wage to be lowered to one of those country's levels? Because I know in Mexico it's something like $50 a week. Perhaps that contributes to why those countries with near-zero minimum wage are awful pieces of shit?
The minimum wage is idiotic. Germany didn't have a minimum wage since last year. Now there is a 8.50 Euro minimum wage and that will fuck up Germany in the next recession.
Austria still has no minimum wage and isn't dirt poor.
Forget minimum wage, let the employers and employees negotiate wages. As long as there is no welfare, employers and employees will agree on wages which allow employees to survive.
>Has made billions of dollars by making good deals
>Points out that a bad trade deal is being made
>Somehow makes him completely against free trade
Think about how stupid you sound, OP.
>>73982885
Illegal Immigrants DO get welfare and free hospitable (because they just don't pay the bill). It's just they first need to have a kid here first (anchor baby) Milton was just making a point
>>73987178
>raises corporations to the literal power level of every government on this planet.
This.
They are moving in for the kill as we speak too.
>>73987502
Because they have different currencies, different purchasing parities, different cultures.
They are TOO different.
One day maybe, but not today.
>>73988935
Maybe "Slave Labor" isn't the correct term. However, if you have to put up nets outside of windows to prevent people from committing suicide in the workplace, the working conditions aren't exactly good ...
Also, you know which countries we are talking about.... Primarily China. Their currency manipulation prevents their own workers from moving up the economic later, leaving them in a perpetual state of depressed wages. This allows multi-national corps. to have extremely cheap labor, and more western companies lose manufacturing. I'd be all for free-trade with China if they at least had a more general free-market themselves when it comes to their own currency.
>>73989364
Different people have different incentives in different situations.
Trump's incentive, because he wants votes, is to appeal to a large number of individuals who either lost their jobs or have stagnant wages because the labor market they participate in is much more competitive.
>>73989176
I don't know how good your english is, but that section you quoted literally gives citizenship to anchor babies. Being part of the constitution, it makes it very VERY hard to change.
>>73989261
>passes laws that limit the media
>funds media that is friendly to them
>literally does control the state, and passes laws that other countries must follow
wat
>>73989567
Control does not imply ownership
Even the states of the USA aren't directly owned by the Federal government.
>>73987178
>>73987308
The german bro is right. The issue is that many people refuse to learn any other trade and even teach their kids that their trade is the big thing they must do. With this, you will just have a large section of the population unemployed.
>>73982885
ITS NOT FREE TRADE WHEN OTHER COUNTRIES CAN BRING IN THEIR PRODUCTS WITHOUT A TARIFF BUT IF WE SEND AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS GO CHINA/MEXICO/JAPAN THEY PUT A 30% TARIFF ON IT
FUCK YOU
WE ARE LEVELING THE PLAYING FIELD
WE ARE MAKING THINGS FAIR
GO ENJOY MUHAMMAD IN YOUR KEK COUNTRY SLAVE
>>73983642
fpbp
>>73989474
>However, if you have to put up nets outside of windows to prevent people from committing suicide in the workplace, the working conditions aren't exactly good ...
FoxConn has 2 million employees. If a handful of them commit suicide, that isn't a problem, it is in line with population suicide rates.
>>73989474
>Their currency manipulation prevents their own workers from moving up the economic later, leaving them in a perpetual state of depressed wages.
1. The EU is China's biggest trading partner by far. 2. This is despite the current weakness of the Euro compared to the Yuan and 3. You know what China does with all its Euros? Yes, buy up European companies, creating European jobs.
I work in this area, I have seen those M&A deals of Chinese companies in Europe. It is massive. And it helps the European economy. Free trade is awesome, also with China.
Do you know how China looked like just 20 years ago? Free trade has made a much more modern and open country out of China. It could still be a fucked up, backwards, communist dictatorship without free trade.
Because there is no free market. the free market is a line of bullshit that is used to get poor, corrupt and stupid countries to open up their markets to western corporations. Its a good line of bullshit when we are winning from it, but now that we are losing, its time to stop. Are you really this naive Hans?
>>73989722
so, would you agree with TTIP? Europe is willing to eliminate most of the already few barriers it has on the US.
>>73989722
>ITS NOT FREE TRADE WHEN OTHER COUNTRIES CAN BRING IN THEIR PRODUCTS WITHOUT A TARIFF BUT IF WE SEND AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS GO CHINA/MEXICO/JAPAN THEY PUT A 30% TARIFF ON IT
That is a Trump shitposting shit. China doesn't levy a 30% tariff on American goods.
How do you think pic related functions if China apparently cuts off imports with tariffs?
I'm waiting for Trump to backtrack on this one like he always does, should he ever get elected
>>73988935
>need money
>slave to money
It's when you give people trickle amounts for their work.
Why does this happen?
Simple, the corporations are too large. The middle men are powerless and scared into enforcing shitty wages.
>>73989781
I don't give a shit about China.
Maybe, just maybe, the free market is only a good idea when the cost of living has a minimum.
>pajeets in communal hovels get to take NA jobs because they live like peasants
>>73989953
This really depends on what you do. A large deal of the increase in wage inequality has do to with the arising of a new class of well traveled white collar workers who in 10 years work in like 5 different countries. These are well paid and they do not necessarily come from rich backgrounds.
>>73982885
we need a fixed currency to sell on a global stage to make it free trade. Even Keynes said so.
>>73982885
Fuck off you fucking communist kike
>>73982885
A totally free market eventually settles into slavery.
>>73990190
>we need a fixed currency to sell on a global stage to make it free trade.
Why? What the hell? Look at what the Euro does to the Eurozone with a fixed currency exchange rate. Floating rate currencies are awesome to balance out global trade.
>>73990190
>Even Keynes said so.
Keynes was thinking of a state, top down, partially socialist approach to the economy. This does not work in a globalist, free trade, information based world.
>>73982885
>What are sanctuary cities
>What is the legal requirement to treat the injured and first repsonse
>What are the constant programs to enfrachise and provide welfare
>What is the rampant and known abuse of these programs
>What is the loss to tax revenue streams as illegals can't be brought into the tax system and must be paid under the table
>What is the loss to the economy by remittances
>Believing swamping a market's supply of a good will somehow lead to greater demand just because that good is Low-skilled labour.
>Believing non-permanence consumption - the broken windows fallacy - is wealth creation
>Believing cheap goods are the sole arbiter of consumption when the prices of goods in shithole 3rd world nations are a tenth that in the US
>Believing that free trade leads to equal growth and wealth creations all over the world
>Believing that free trade doesn't lead to capital draw and accumulation
>Believing that trade is fair or "free" when countries take advantage of western competitors through currency manipulation, anti-trade regulatory systems and tariffs to knockdown imports
>Believing that a trade agreement that allows companies and corporations to sue governments for providing services won't hold wealth accumulation and profit above the greater good of the people
Milton Friedman is a retard, and you are too.
>>73990292
>A totally free market eventually settles into slavery.
Why does this myth always come up? A free market means that there is massive jobs creation and employees can bargain for increases in wages.
A badly run top down highly regulated economy basically creates slave labor because it is the employers who have the power when negotiating the wages.
>>73982885
A free market means doing everything available and taking every advantage to get you on top.
This isn't against a free market. Whenever the 2 parties talk about "free trade", they mean "more money for globalist kikes".
>>73989663
>Control does not imply ownership
You're retarded.
>>73982885
My problem with free trade is that people want to own factories in China but they don't want to live in China, because China is a horrible hellhole of a place filled with shitty awful chinks and if that were not enough there is the oppressive communist government which no free white european man would ever tolerate.
So when people say 'well you don't want to pay 2000 for an iphone hurr hurr' I say 'well you don't want to basically forfeit your private property rights to the state do you?' because thats what you get in china. so the conservative ideological stance on free trade works wonderfully when you're talking about somebody like england but when you're talking about someone like china its impractical but conservatives remain locked in their ideological trance.
>>73982885
>unions
>minimum wage
>insane environmental regulations
expecting to be competitive in a free global market... hahahahahahaha
>>73990335
The Euro is a floating rate currency though..? or at least according to wiki.
>>73985946
>So you do not understand how trade and floating currencies work, do you? If a country tries to manipulate its currency to export more cheaply, what happens is that they get dollars when selling their products... what do they do with dollars they get? If they want to convert them into their own currency, that currency will appreciate vs. the dollar.
Look I'm moderately pro-free trade but this argument is retarded as fuck. Countries like China PEG their currency at a lower value than it should be, nullifying that effect that should balance things out. They can afford to do this because they are totalitarian dictatorships with no labor laws, thus the rising inflation caused by an undervalued currency does not translate into large wage rises.
This is illegal (currency manipulation) and China should have been sactioned with punitive tariffs since 1993 when they started doing it.
In addition, it is not wise to promote free trade with a government that cheats on you and wants to destroy you. China is still a one-party state following Marxism-Leninism, their capitalist model is only temporary to catch up by stealing Western knowhow and modern technology.
>>73982885
why are germoneys so cucked?
>>73990573
So basically I, a man of western european descent, am forced into the living standards of a slave because chink labor doesn't want to organize, doesn't want to protect their environment, is collective oriented as opposed to the individual. nuuupe, fuck that, fuck the chinks. tariff their trade surplus into the ground. if the so called job creators love unabated free trade so much they can move to china (lol). ill stick with the white western europeans albeit fewer iphones
>>73990896
>The Euro is a floating rate currency though..? or at least according to wiki.
You do know there are 19 countries with 19 economies which all use the Euro? Plus 2 countries which use it de facto. Plus 17 African countries and 2 European countries pegging their currencies 1:1 without cushions to the Euro.
This is essentially a Bretton Woods system. And it has downsides and upsides. But it definitely is not a solution to trade imbalances.
We impose environmental and ethical restrictions for our workers. Other countries don't and are able to provide services and products at much cheaper prices.
If you're going to regulate the US for ethical reasons, put a tariff on other countries abusing their workers, or you honestly don't give a shit.
>>73982885
> Trade so free we need a thousand page secret treaty that no one can read before it passes.
Free market... Get the fuck outta here Akmed.
Why are people replying to this proxy shill? TPP or TTIP or whatever you call it in your country is bad fucking news.
>>73982885
1) TPP is definitely not free market. I don't even understand how somebody could be so jaded that they actually think anything good can come from extending an already broken trade policy even further.
2) I'm sick of hearing about "oh, you think that X should happen? Guess you aren't for free market economies!" It's clearly Jewish mind control that conservatives and libertarians fall for because if they didn't, they risk undermining their weak stance.
You have to be an absolute idiot to wake up and go "Yes, this is fine and everything will improve!" We are barreling down a really shitty path, and you can't just put some duct tape on it and call it a day. But making large changes isn't going to fuck up the free market economy - the free market is ALREADY fucked up due to people not flowing their large piles of cash into the economy like they are supposed to.
>>73991383
>> Trade so free we need a thousand page secret treaty that no one can read before it passes.
>Free market... Get the fuck outta here Akmed.
How do you negotiate a massive treaty in the open with politicians then saying every day "no, I don't like this suggestion", basically fucking up that treaty from the start?
Just look at this thread how many anti-free trade people there are in the general population. It is ridiculous. The TTIP would have been dead on day 3 if you had negotiated in the open.
>>73991574
>How do you negotiate a massive treaty in the open with politicians then saying every day "no, I don't like this suggestion", basically fucking up that treaty from the start?
You can't. That's why a globalist one world government can never work without being secretive and oppressive.
>Your government manipulates your currency
>Your government provide subsidizes for your products to edge out the competition
Explain to me again how this is "free trade"?
>>73991253
are you saying wikipedia is wrong and the Eurozone isn't a floating rate currency or are you saying floating rate currencies aren't the solution to trade imbalances?
>>73991862
>are you saying wikipedia is wrong and the Eurozone isn't a floating rate currency or are you saying floating rate currencies aren't the solution to trade imbalances?
The Euro is a floating rate currency to the outside, but it is a fixed rate currency within. Germany, despite being a strong economy, has a fixed rate currency with France, which has a very poor economy and a high unemployment. This has helped Germany, but not France.
>>73986285
This.
Trump voters are completely uneducated about economics. They just like hearing the dumb, pandering shit that comes out of Trump's mouth.
>>73992186
ahh i always wondered why Germany would stay in it but Briton would leave. Didn't you guys also open borders internally but externally didn't even tighten them? Is the Eurozone just a meme that will die in a few years?
>>73991574
What is the World Trade Organisation.
OH WAIT THE WTO WOULD ALLOW TARIFFS AGAINST CHINA AS PART OF IT RULES AGAINST CURRENCY MANIPULATION
SOMEHOW FREET TRADE ORGANISATION NOT FREE TRADE AT ALL WE MUST FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND SPECIAL INTERESTS
t.TURKMANY
>>73992338
Trump never said print more money to solve problems he said countries don't default on debt because they can print more money. Whats up with taking him out of context with every single thing.
>>73992529
>Is the Eurozone just a meme that will die in a few years?
No, it is a meme that it dies. There is no way to get out of it again. Look at Greece. Greece is run from abroad by Germany. Why do you think they let this happen, even though they could just leave the Euro and go bankrupt? Because the effect of getting out of the Euro is such a devastating event.
What actually happens is that all other EU countries will join the Euro, because they are required to do so and actually benefit from joining.
>>73992953
so Briton will collapse if they leave?
>>73982885
We shouldn't become reliant on poison.
There's no point when we're just getting overrun by foreigners who refuse to assimilate.
The election will be decided by a handful of key states. Trump must pander to those voters as hard as he can.
Because most working class white people are pro-nationalist Marxists.
>>73993769
>so Briton will collapse if they leave?
Britain is not part of the Eurozone. So they will not collapse if they leave.
But if e.g. Italy or France or Spain were to leave the Eurozone, they would enter a recession. That is unfortunately the price for rebalancing a new currency. This has happened before for the US after the collapse of Bretton Woods in the 1970s.
