Currently, I'm a Berniefag
I think that military spending should be lowered enough to provide universal healthcare and government assisted college payments.
Can you goys please convince me that I'm on the wrong side?
Vote Hillary
/artilleryforhillary/
>>73974768
Universal healthcare will cost around 3.2 trillion annually, military spending is a small fraction or 600 billion.
We can't afford universal healthcare.
>>73974768
>universal healthcare
Why are liberals so obsessed with this meme?
Are they all such sickly piles of genetic trash that this is all they care about? They're going to the doctors so often that they couldn't possible afford it on their own even with the help of insurance?
In fact, universal healthcare will rival all federal spending combined in costs.
>>73974768
If you can watch ISIS videos of heads being cut off, pictures of blood smeared on the Bataclan floor, read into the instability and threat of a nuclear war in the Middle East, and still not want increased military expenditure, I don't know what to say.
Increased military expenditure doesn't have to correlate to increased number of conflicts (although Hillary would likely disagree), but rather act plainly as a deterrent
But if you'd rather see your tax money go towards paying for a student's Gender Studies degree after she takes a gap year travelling the world, that is fine too
>>73974940
May I ask for a source for this?
I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never seen any research that wasn't obviously just Fox News propaganda.
>>73975116
I would but you have access to google and the will to learn.
Go forth, educated one! Make me proud!
I wonder if Universal Healthcare would be a bad idea for the simple fact that Americans tend to be negligent about their health in general..
>>73975103
We sort of destabilized the Middle East with our military, though, so ISIS is somewhat our fault.
Yes, I accept that Islam is not a religion of peace, and that ISIS should be dealt with, but someone new is just going to rise up again because of how fucked up the "governments" over there are.
Do you think it's possible for us to be more isolationist in our foreign policies but still keep an open market?
depends on what you call universal healthcare.. Its proved that when you have free access to healthcare, people tend to overuse it when its not necessary. We mustn't see healthcare as a way to cure diseases but as a way to prevent them !
Universal Healthcare would be just fine, but only if we are willing to stop the following
>Corn subsidies
>Sugar subsidies
>Mass immigration
>Massive serving size inflation
If we aren't able to stop any of those things it's a fucking waste and I don't want my taxes going to a bunch of fat reckless faggots.
I'm now a #cruzmissile
>>73974768
Watch this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NdHtfKZ9iy8
>>73974768
Universal healthcare only works within countries with a population less than 10 million. As soon as your population hits 25,000,000+, all forms of socialism, whether policy or a fully implemented system fails - see Venezuela. The fact that you're not sure whether or not the candidate your voting for is right or wrong, the fact you come here and ask us whether this question just goes to show he isn't going to win and that you're asking the wrong question.
The question you need to ask yourself in this election is whether you want a Trump administration or a Clinton administration. Berniecuck is done, that's why we've stopped posting memes about it. Even if you remove all of the super delegates, it only takes losing 62 delegates for him to be mathematically eliminated. Super delegates can change sides at anytime, he started at 42 and is now stuck between 39 and 40 - it fluctuates. It's also the main reason why the sandman's supporters have started to vote for Trump - out of spite, not because they believe in his ideals. The primary reason plebbit rallied around the cuck was because they thought they would have college paid for, instead they paid for the closet commies retirement and an Audi R8.
Trump has already won, we politically assassinated 17 opponents with the last 2 dropping out months before - due to being mathematically eliminated. Berniecuck will go down in history as being the first nominee in US history to lose to just 1 opponent - a woman.
>>73974984
>Why are liberals so obsessed with this meme?
I think it's a nice ideal. What I don't get is how they think it's feasible while importing thousands to millions of third-worlders.
>>73975302
>so ISIS is somewhat our fault.
No Isis was deliberately fostered as a means to take down Syria
>>73975302
It's a fallacy to believe that ISIS is entirely the fault of the West, there have been continuous attempts at establishing a caliphate throughout history (the last attempt notably destroyed by Turkey). There is no doubt that the West played a part, however, in exacerbating the issue. The West also has a remarkably poor record of replacing dictators after overthrowing them.
An isolationist foreign policy from the US would have been ideal 50-60 years ago, but now it must finish what it's started to some extent. The best thing the US can do (alongside the rest of the West) is to continue air strikes and supporting proxy armies, as a ground invasion would be catastrophic for ISIS' propaganda based on Islamic prophecies.
>>73974768
>universal healthcare
He thinks that fatties and junkies that abuse their own bodies should be kept artificially alive exclusively on taxpayers' money. Yeah, no thanks.
>>73974768
why do you believe what you believe?
All the bernfags I know are literally selfish manchildren
are you?
>>73975638
being a recovering drug user, I would rather have my tax money go towards helping with other junkies' rehab than some pathetic fat fucks gastric bypass surgery. I can understand if you have a thyroid problem, and food addiction is a real thing, but some people just donmt give a shit about themselves so why should I?
The American government already pays more to the healthcare system than any other in the world, it doesn't seem it considering how expensive it is, but that's because most of it goes to research which America is amazing at.
Furthermore, university should be seen as an investment and is generally not a cheap thing. Government assistance could raise prices or lower professor wages or whatever. Like all investments, it's not a bad idea to leverage (get a loan) if you're reasonably sure you can get a return.
That being said I think our HECS/HELP system is a great idea, but it does drive foreigners buttmad.
>tfw I could have had the first post but clover error posted consistently
>>73974984
>Are they all such sickly piles of genetic trash
"yes"
>>73974768
Vet fag here. Military spending is stupid wasteful and everybody I knew was there because they couldn't hack it in the real world. Fucking admins and Intel and hospital workers and shit are welfare queens. The military should be strictly combat related roles. We need to cut our military and liberal faggots are right on this one.
>>73974768
> I think that military spending should be lowered enough to provide universal healthcare and government assisted college payments.
Funnily enough I agree with you. In Australia we have universal healthcare and we take a low-interest loan off the government to go to University which we only pay back when we're earning enough to. In terms of military spending ours is minuscule compared to that of your country, but the USA has much more need for a capable military of course. But that's one of the reasons why we can afford such things, which I do generally support. I wouldn't describe myself as a Socialist though, definitely more of a traditional liberal. Though most people in Australia would consider me very conservative or right-wing. Just goes to show how much the zeitgeist has shifted over time.
>>73975701
I want to help people, but I'm just seeing how it's not really possible without a complete change in fiscal policy. I just wanted some reassertion for my doubts and I know how Conservative /pol/ is, so I figured this would be a good place to post
>>73975302
Hey even if the US did destabilize that shithole Islam would have just done Isis by itself eventually
>>73974768
If Universal Healthcare comes to life in the U.S.
It will pretty much be as bad as the VA. Hospitals we have, all shitty, run down, old equipment, and long lines for people who have been waiting for months just to check a broken arm/leg/etc.
>>73975773
Military spending is money at work, contractors get paid, engineers get paid, incentives are given to ensure competition, we have the most technologically capable military in the world. We spend what we spend to remain ahead of the Chinese and the Russians, we cannot afford to allow either of them a technological edge over us.
>>73974984
They hate the idea of evolution. Evolution shows the reality that people aren't equal.
I wonder why no one has brought up the argument that a socialist healthcare system has already Failed...
There are countless reports of the fucking VA Hospitals being absolute horrendous. Seriously m8s is everyone this blind?
>>73975831
>I want to help people
So why don't you? Why does 'helping people' translate to 'use the threat of violence to make others do things they don't want to do' in your mind?
How does fiscal policy relate to your charitable acts?
>>73976117
>>>>>>>>>>>it's the military it doesn't count
>>73975773
Pretty sure you don't know where the majority of the money even goes, and why we need to keep spending money on military, check your Dept. funding and compare it to the others and dig deep.
>>73975748
No money at all should go to people who have knowingly damaged their bodies so this also applies to smokers.
Trump actually wants some good military changes. He's not a chicken hawk in the mic's pocket like most republicans.
He'll close bases in friendly countries and bring our military home. Then he'll make our allies pay a portion of their bills rather than expect us to pay them all AND load them up with "foreign aid"
His tax plan is also great for the poor.
>>73976127
When did I give a threat of violence?
>>73976289
You're a berniefag. Socialist policies require forced participation. Answer the question
>>73975633
See>>73975554
It isn't conspiracy theory it is conspiracy fact
Isis is to the middle East what the Contras were to Nicaragua.
Without us deliberately fostering them and taking out Gaddafi they would not exist in any meaningful way.
> is to continue air strikes and supporting proxy armies
>the best way to stop Isis is to keep supporting them
Anon Isis is a proxy army.
The air campaign that has been happening is a cover to bomb Syrian infrastructure which is why the west got so fucking pissy when Russia started to actually bomb these proxy forces (including isis) and started to roll them back in less than a month.
Hence propaganda like this
>>73976353
I realize that although I might be fine with increased taxes to assist people who are in more need than I am, I can understand why some people aren't alright with that.
What's your stance on either flat or progressive taxes?
>>73976289
What happens if you don't pay taxes?
>>73975748
>some people just donmt give a shit about themselves so why should I?
I could ask you the same thing..kek (drug addiction > thyroid problem)
>>73975831
>I want to help people, but I'm just seeing how it's not really possible without a complete change in fiscal policy.
There's the thing, if the government could help people - we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's not something up for debate, both conservatives and liberals have attempted to put measures in place (medicare, obamacare) to help their citizens.. only problem is the poor breeds poverty.
>>73975302
I agree that America removing itself from the middle east would be much more beneficial for trade ties and rebuilding the country. Commerce is much better than military intervention.
>>73975116
Going by New Zealand that's based on the Nordic model, it cost on average $16,500 ($11,000USD) to cover the cost of each citizen while they pay on average, $2,000 a year (due to the poor not having healthcare that makes it low). $11,000 x 300,000,000 = 3.3 trillion - what people pay in premiums. Considering US debt is at 18 trillion (roughly 50k - 60k per person), you would have bankrupted or destroyed the US dollar (and with it industry) before a berniecuck term would end. That's under the assumption that half of the bill would be footed by the top 10% as well.
http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/overview-of-acc/how-were-funded/index.htm
>>73976164
Yea I brought this up before and that's what libturds argued.
>bbut this government run healthcare would be good. I feel it
There already are government assisted college payments. That's why college costs so much in the first place.
Universal healthcare is a noble idea but we have fat americans and crack smoking niggers to take care of.
>>73976512
>I realize that although I might be fine with increased taxes to assist people who are in more need than I am
Why?
You realize that you cannot help by proxy, right?
My stance on taxes is to implement a subscription based model where tax payments are directly related to services used
>inb4 'what about the poor shitskins boo hoo'
I benefit greatly from living in a hegemony, but paying for your Dumbass ass and all the illegal spics to go.to school does me no good
>>73974768
You're on the right side, bernie is the only sane choice
Well, friends, I guess I'm voting for Trump then. I doubt Sandy is going to make it to election day, and I'd rather die than let that criminal bitch into office.
Thanks /pol/, you made me wuestion my own political views
>>73976579
I've been through the army medical machine.
0/10 would not even inflict on die hard anti-american cuckolds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvfHLr5aEqU
>No one posted Bill Whittle yet
>>73976512
>I might be fine with increased taxes to assist people who are in more need than I am
Or we could work to reduce the cost of healthcare instead of plundering the nation which only leads to more corruption of society.
We had a system that worked but Government ruined the medicalcare system in this nation in less than 40 years.
Reducing cost which make it so nearly everyone can pay for it both provides superior and more widespread care than government ran healthcare with the added benefit of not corrupting society by creating a tragedy of the Commons situation.
http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-481-how-capitalism-can-fix-health-care/
>>73976512
What I always find funny
>Holy shit if all these taxes weren't taken out of my paycheck, I could afford everything!
>I'm like totally okay with raising taxes to benefit people, I'm a totally free spirited lover maaaaaaaaan feel the burn
>>73976742
Jesus fucking Christ Tekawiti, you commie cucks need to purged.
Yeah sure universal HC works in small population countries like here in Costa Rica.... not. Come see for yourself.
Speaking of Costa Rica, why doesn't the US just abolish the military completely like CR did in 1948? Wouldn't that leave enough for free college for everyone?
Don't be such a dumbass.
>>73975796
You don't need a big military because you are not a rampaging war state like the US.
>>73976806
When did I say I wanted lower taxes on myself?
I completely understand why they exist.
>>73976746
Link related
All 18 articles are must read if you want the Federal government to take over all of our medicalcare but I think this one is particularly relevant
http://m.watchdog.org/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwatchdog.org%2F146352%2Fbernie-sanders-va-response%2F&utm_referrer=#2875
>>73975989
I doubt that
>>73976903
Not lower taxes on yourself retard, the principal that people who actually keep the money they earn can actually afford to do shit, if they think outside the "well I'll just let taxes take.care of.it"
Things like police property taxes make sense. Taking a major percentage from a workers check EVERY WEEK fucking sucks, and here people want to.increase that more.
>don't you feel bad for the shit heads who had 4 kids with 3 different men who.cant afford
No.i don't, let them to their fate.
>>73977002
>I doubt that
Too bad you are irrelevant and spend your days huffing petrol after you binge spend your centerlink bennies
>>73977002
Yeah man, just look how fluid and efficient the DMV and post office is. All those fuckers working at snails pace because they get the same check regardless of people they help
>>73976257
By that logical, also those who drink, those who eat fast food, those who live in a climate with pollution.
I mean fuck it, everyone who eats red meat knows that isn't not good for you, so fuck them too.
Basically if you're not vegan and straight edge you shouldn't get support cause you're knowingly damaging your body.
Somewhat relevant question.
What do you guys feel about government subsidized birth control?
It keeps "those damn niggermonkeys" and "the poorfags" from constantly spewing out children.
>>73976843
every time the american government gets involved with the cost of tuition, colleges just raise their tuition because the government will pay way more on student loans than any private company will
>>73975116
our deficit and budget information is puic knowledge. If I remember correctly, He right about military being 600 million (it's actually plus a little) and current healthcare costs are in the 1.4 trillion area yearly.
Even at that cost, it's still total shit, my health insurence went up again this year to 230$ bi weekly for my family and it doesn't cover shit.
Given that it's more or less my provider being shit, I thought this healthcare Obama wanted was supposed to make it cheaper and more affordable for everyone, not the opposite.
So why would more than doubling a already failed policy make it any better?
Anytime the government publicises anything it turns into a totally over bloated pile of dogshit, why would I trust them this time.
>But if we only had more money!
More? it's already our biggest expenditure and it's awful.
>>73977313
vegans also knowingly damage their body, as do all athletes and anyone working beyond the hours of 10-4
>>73974768
You do know we currently spend more on healthcare and education than the military right? It's not going to pay for it, especially with our ever increasing population, everyone's on drugs and people like Bernie want to import all the poor and sick into our country (to vote for him.) Even if you cut it entirely it wouldn't pay for everything, and the world would go into chaos.
Trump wants to cut the monopoly lines to try and force competition so that insurance companies may cut their prices. Just remember that insurance is expensive because pills cost a ton when insurance is brought into the equation.
It may work in your tiny Nordic country but they are no ways similar to us. Learn to read more stuff than labeling everything as Fox News and ebil Republican propaganda.
>>73977205
Quarter mile TSA lines will look like a cake walk.
>>73974768
>Universal healthcare
Serious question-with the high rates of obesity, drug and alcohol abuse, currently increasing lifespans, and unchecked illegal immigration do you REALLY think universal healthcare is smart?
I do. But not in this country's current state.
>>73977365
Gonna tell you about taxes real quick man.
Welfare doesnt work
My Dads fridge is empty. He is above the "poverty line". Bills and child support leave him with 30 a week to spend. Hes tried to quit smoking but cant afford the methods anymore.
Lower taxes would help him tremendously. He will never receive aid as the cash my Mom extorts from him doesnt count as an expense to the gov
Hed be better off laid off with side work and unemployment plus EBT. He would live better exploiting the system.
He works a job and side gigs to live in a one room apartment and train his better paid replacement just to buy loafs of bread with Goddamn pennies. Tax cuts will help but any tax increase will screw my Dad permanently. Trumps tax plan is the most solid to help us
I understand the opposition to universal healthcare in the USA, but our current system (post and pre-obamacare) isn't very efficient, affordable or just plain good. Even with insurance (which could cost over $800 a month for a family of three if their employer doesn't offer any), theres still lots of things that don't get covered like certain x-rays or emergency care. That $800 can turn into $1200 because a kid needed an x-ray on his arm or an emergency tooth removal when the dentist was about to close.
My dad had a few heart attacks and prostate cancer and insurance companies, especially the one his employer offered, wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole until Obamacare, in which they were finally reluctantly going to give him insurance for a shitload every month. He had a tear in his AC joint for like three years and he didn't have the $50,000 they wanted to fix it without insurance so he let it get worse and worse until he finally got on a program (the ONLY good thing obamacare did). My dad was never fat or abused his body, he just has shitty genes. He was punished for this in America.
So the current system isnt working, and I refuse to just let it continue pro-qou because you 20-something year olds are generally healthy, have rich families and never had to deal with the consequences of our shitty healthcare system. Is universal healthcare the fix? Probably not, but neither is a shitty capitalistic insurance system.
>>73978241
weird i have no insurance and my healthcare costs are in the vicinity of 500 a year, all dental
it's almost like shit gets cheaper when you aren't supporting a massive middleman
PS why is everyone else responsible for taking care of your shitty dad?
>>73976512
This is one of the biggest problems with progressive taxation. The poorer people always campaign to raise taxes on some mythical being responsible for all of the problems in their lives, also known as the "rich." Look at California and how they are trying to rob every successful person to pay for transgendered coupons while the sneaky Hollywood liberals stash their money in offshore investments to avoid the taxes they campaign for. The government is massively inefficient, if they say they need $10 they will take $1000, do good yourself instead of forcing the government to steal from productive people and keep the poor... poor. Finally, if you believe healthcare is corrupt, why subsidize corruption with the money of those evil rich people? Why not fix the problem at the source?
Flat tax is a dream tax since the goal for taxes is to have it be low and broad. I don't think it will ever happen though since government only gets bigger, so I like Trump''s plan which is actually vary popular with Liberals if you tell them it's Hillary/Bernie's plan. Make the exempt bracket higher and lower rates across the board in exchange for closing loopholes and and simplifying the code by removing most writeoffs.
>>73974768
>Barnie Sandlers
>>73978438
He would pay into it like everyone else. I am not opposed to insurance, just that they don't pander to shitty entitled kids like you in college with no health issues.
>>73978722
>He would pay into it like everyone else
then why can't he just directly pay for his own care?
>lower military spending to pay for education
not an unreasonable position at all. We could save another couple hundred billion a year and maintain our warfighting edge if we refocused on Russian-style strategic focus instead of BIG BAD WAR MACHINE READY TO FIGHT 5 FRONT WARS ALL OVER THE WORLD
Educationonal costs have quadrupled since 1980, and worst off, they hurt the poor and middle class the most with those student loans, since most families with a little wealth pay for their kids tuitions. So not only do the wealthier kids have better connections, education and job prospects inherently from their status in life, they also have little to no debt, i.e. they save thousands of dollars a year that average people have to pay for student loan payments each year.
We don't need to do anything too radical, I believe estimates are $100 billion a year to fund 80% of college educational costs at public universities.
>>73978956
Why though?
>>73978956
why don't those poor and middle class families get a job that doesn't require a $60k liberal arts degree? shouldn't they be smarter with their money? what would happen if they were that stupid with OUR (tax payers) money? that would be terrible.
>>73978798
Because he is paying a ridiculous amount more than everyone else you dip. He is paying insane amounts for himself AND putting money into welfare for people that don't contribute anything to it.
>>73979031
Because education is the most important thing for growth
>>73979164
>Because education is the most important thing for growth
source?
>>73979149
I'm not sure I get your point. Does it not make sense to pay for a service you use?
>>73979164
Are you trying to say that a traditional 4 year program is ideal for every single person in the USA?
Can you tell me why education fees have increased so much?
>>73979116
So everyone should get a STEM major? There shouldn't be any teachers, business majors, accountants, psychologists or anything not related to your precious engineering and computer sciences? Not every non-STEM degree is liberal arts.
>>73979334
I was talking about a trade school, dumbass.
>>73979031
To provide the education we need to compete in 21st century economy to people while ensuring young people are able to save money and start families. This is instant heroin to the economy. You are basically shifting the burden from the poorest people to the wealthiest without any major unfunded liability possibilities. It's a win-win.
>>73979298
When did I say he wouldn't pay?
>>73979298
It's not for everyone, no. Some people aren't really fot for college, but holding the people back that are ideal for college level jobs shouldn't be held back for financial reasons.
I think ot has to do with inflation but that's purely speculation on my part.
>>73979400
>the 21st century economy
retail and service sector drones don't need education
>>73979452
you went on a rant because your shit dad can't afford to care for himself. you literally want others to pay for him.
>>73979479
>holding the people back that are ideal for college level jobs shouldn't be held back for financial reasons.
that literally NEVER happens in the USA
>universal healthcare "works" in other places
>America is the most unhealthy, lard-chugging, fat ass, dick-chopping, motorized-cart-riding, sheboon nation in the world
>Putting that burden on everyone
We already have scholarships. You do well in high school, which is fucking easy because our schools suck, and then you go to college for cheap. Or just do a 2 year associates, work while doing so, and then get bachelors debt-free. If you can't find a decent job and budget your money for a couple years to save for a bachelor's degree, then you are a fucking idiot anyway and deserve to die in a gutter.
>>73979233
>>73979298
doesn't have to be 4-year, and as part of a "grand compromise" we could have national testing that essentially gives a person a voucher to pay for tuition at any university (public or private) for a fixed period of time (5 years?) but only for whatever skills you demonstrate in the testing. There could obviously be safety-valves or re-testing, but it would be a way to limit the cost of education while directing people to the school best suited for them.
>>73979298
>Are you trying to say that a traditional 4 year program is ideal for every single person in the USA?
I'd also add that even two additional years of education is associated in the scientific literature with far better outcomes in almost every area of life. Education encourages knowledge which leads to wisdom and right living. If you deny this basic fact you're denying the history of western civilization.
>>73979645
>we could have national testing that essentially gives a person a voucher to pay for tuition at any university (public or private) for a fixed period of time (5 years?) but only for whatever skills you demonstrate in the testing. There could obviously be safety-valves or re-testing, but it would be a way to limit the cost of education while directing people to the school best suited for them.
sounds pretty expensive. who is going to pay for this?
>>73979645
but we already do this
if you excel in high school and show promise you will get free education and even be courted by multiple universities
>>73979726
so what happens when everyone is educated but we still need burger flippers?
oh wait, we already know because that already happens.
education is not a panacea
>>73979606
>retail and service sector drones don't need education
If we want to not have that reality we are going to need the current levels of university enrollment indefinitely. Most of our productivity growth is still coming from those people, they have the highest IQs, they are the ones doing the most overall good for the economy and generating the ideas and technologies of the future.
>>73979362
Then high schools should emphasize trade schools instead of shoving college down our throats as the only possible way a person can be successful in life. When I went through high school there was never any mention of trade schools, just "you better go to college or you will be a poor fag working mcdonalds the rest of your life". They made it sound like trades like plumbing or carpentry were for scumbags that were basically too retarded to go to college. They sent the kids that sucked at normal high school to technical high schools to learn entry-level welding or auto repair as if they were rejects, when it actually helped them a shitload.
>>73975302
>We sort of destabilized the Middle East with our military, though, so ISIS is somewhat our fault.
No offense, I mean I sense you're here in good faith in a genuine effort to learn, but the above statement is utter fucking bullshit, fed to you at the slop-trough of the liberal, globalist agenda. The narrative you've been brainwashed to believe is that the West created the conflict in the Middle East and as such, we should accept responsibility for it by welcoming the tsunami of refugees we supposedly created.
Amazing how the liberal media and they're scores of globalist minions made you believe that bullshit, so much so that you come here and spout it as though it should be self-evident to all. Give me a fucking break.
As if conflict in the ME is SOMEHOW A NEW THING!!!!! Where's Carl when you need him?
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
Islam is a shit-tier ideology, that produces a shit-tier people, a worthless bankrupt culture, and third-world societies that savagely oppresses their entire female population, and has been actively trying to spread their poison throughout the world for - oh - about 12 FUCKING CENTURIES.
This latest "refugee crisis" is just the latest incarnation of that objective. And thanks to unimaginable traitors like Cameron and Merkel, it's going along swimmingly. Goddamn, liberals are the most gullible fuckers walking the face of the earth.
>>73979913
Yeah, the solution to this would be to emphasize trade school in high school in this specific situation, not give everybody free college.
>>73979838
have what reality?
>>73979931
rekt
>>73979733
$100 billion a year is about 3-4 percent of federal revenues, so either we'd reduce $100 billion in spending or raise taxes by 3-4 percent, again recognizing that we already spend a shitload on higher education as it is and that the loans currently issued will almost certainly never be repaid.
>>73974768
>he thinks the US military budget comes even slightly close to the cost of universal healthcare and government assisted college payments
No, I'm afraid there's no hope for you.
>>73979738
yeah but think of the average joe instead of the exception to the rule.
>>73980065
>but think of the average joe
who is still average after getting his MBA but because of wasting that time in the university system is now years behind his peers
>>73980003
The problem is that bernie is going to put a 0.5 speculative trading tax on wall street to pay for it - the last time sweden did this, it stopped like 90% of trading. fuck the middle class though, right? fuck them. lets raise more taxes so that the ruling class can hide their money and leave the middle class to pay for the lower class and now nobody is happy. fuck your federal programs
>>73979838
>If we want to not have that reality
if we want to create jobs of the future we need education, if we don't have the innovators we are not going to have anything but menial shit-tier jobs like throughout the third world.
>>73979606
God you're fucking stupid. You're right, he couldn't pay a years salary to repair a torn ligament in his shoulder because insurance denied him coverage for conditions he had no control over. Thats his fault, he should just die, huh edgy teen?
Go jump off a bridge fag.
>>73974768
College prices have risen specifically because of necessity and the social stigma surrounding going to college, aka if you dont, you're a loser.
Student loans are actually to blame for the rise in college prices too, having the government pay for it while still keeping colleges running as independent institutions will just result in the colleges raising prices and milking the government for money.
Universal healthcare is fine to a point, its admirable to not want people to die on the streets, and infact it sort of exists already, if you can't pay your medical bills hospitals often write it off.
But frankly i think that we force the prices for hospitals and therefore insurance lower. and then introduce a very basic universal healthcare system to care for those who can't do any better.
Like, not good enough that people who didn't need to would actually use it, but just enough so if you need emergency help its provided.
>>73979931
>Islam is bad therefore we didn't create ISIS
NOT AN ARGUMENT
>>73980178
>innovation requires a degree in womyn's studiys
>>73980201
you still haven't answered why everyone else needs to pay for it.
>>73974768
>military spending should be lowered enough to pay for health care and college
Still wouldn't have enough money to provide health care and education to a country this size.
>>73980170
Sorry, but I never said I supported Bernie Sanders or his taxes, I know this is a Bernie-fag thread so I understand the confusion.
There are productive taxes and unproductive taxes, and productive spending and unproductive spending. Spending on higher education is associated with higher overall productivity in the economy. America is #1 economy in the world and I think it's no coincidence that America has by far the best university system in the world.
Until just a generation ago, the cost of a college education was virtually nothing. I think as a principle of conservatism we should have preserved settled expectations and not saddled a generation larger than the baby boom generation with trillions of high-interest debt that is far greater than their ability to pay, i.e. make them permanently insolvent.
>>73980009
>government assisted college payments
actually the total cost of high education in the US is something like $150 billion, and we already spend about $50 billion a year if you include interest subsidies and Pell Grants etc.
The DoD budget is about $600 billion but the total cost of the military-industrial budget is closer to $1 trillion if you include all of the security agencies, the veterans benefits and the cost of maintaining the empire.
>>73974768
OMG HES SMOKING A CIGARETTE... HANG HIM!!!!
>>73979980
Yep, if you aren't getting good grades, don't punish the kid and tell them theyre shitty failures, emphasize a trade instead. Get them a year or two of training hands on and get them working a useful job instead of forcing them to go to college on loans and having them fail.
>>73976528
Thank you based trashman
>>73980227
Actually, yes it is an argument.
You say we created ISIS, but different violent factions have existed in Islam FOREVER. ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, etc. going back through time endlessly. Like those goat-fuckers EVER needed western intervention to make them violent. They've been that way since DAY FUCKING ONE. You might as well blame America for solar flares.
>>73974768
>universal healthcare
enjoy that 3 day wait for a broken toe
>government assisted college payments
This is how college debt first evolved into its current state: flooding the market with people that couldn't afford the product and started taking out government 'assistance' to pay for it. At first it was free, then they couldn't keep up and made that fateful switch to deferred loans. You just want to perpetuate a cycle that will destroy higher education entirely.
>>73974768
Fuck off faggot. Nobody cares who you vote for.
>>73974768
Not everyone should be in college. Less than half of people should be.
College has been destroyed over the last 20 years by artificially cheap government loans creating artificially high demand for college education and feeder programs from schools guaranteeing entry to university.
This has resulted in millions of people literally too dumb to do the work going to university and destroying the system by demanding passing grades. They also inflate worthless programs that used to be the refuge of the rich, or hobbyists that knew it was a hobby. That is, history majors, English majors, political science majors, art majors, etc.
You should not be able to get a fifty thousa d dollar loan to get one of these degrees, because the degree does not raise your earning potential enough.
The cost of college has EXPLODED BECAUSE of cheap government education programs. Everyone can get a low interest rate loan to continue their education after high school that wants one. Demand for a li.ited good went through the roof, and the providers know there is no market force to lower their price, because the dumb students are too dumb to know their worthless degrees isn't worth $5k, and they can't even tell the difference between that and $50k because the Payments are deferred.
College used to be useful to employers because it guaranteed a sort of minimum iq above 110 ish. The education really wasn't that important in most fields, on the job training is much more important and even in fields like Medici ne and law it's where you learn everything.
But now colleges aren't worth it. Everyone gets As, everyone gets a degree, and it's all worthless to employers, they can't even trust them if they are relevant to the field because a 4.0 gpa doesn't mean shit anymore.
Fuck your free education. There needs to be less people in college. It's like short people signing up for basketball so they can be taller.
>>73980227
>Islam didn't create the ISLAMIC STATE
You what?
>>73980266
Everyone pays into the pot, everyone gets the same care.
I realize that isnt totally feasible for a population the size of the US, so instead a plan like Trumps would likely help a lot. Stop the big pharma monopolies, make insurance available to everyone and lower prices by making it competitive. My dad would be paying for his own insurance, but at a fair price.
I said in the first fucking post I didn't expect others to pay for him, you're the one twisting my words to emphasize whatever point you're trying to make.
Isolationism doesn't work. Do you know what China is doing right now? They are bullying every country around them because they're the stronger country. Might makes right, it will always be that way. You definitely want a United States leading the world instead of China or some islamic country
>>73974768
>Assisted college
Devalues education further. Do you want people to have to spend 10 years in education just to get into pleb tier work?
> Free healthcare
Hard when people have such a lack of social responsibility. Drinking, smoking, eating too much shit.
>>73974768
University is a business, anon. Bernouts are hyperfocused on how we pay for everything and completely ignore why things cost so much. A cost controlled single payer healthcare system is what we need, not what Bernie is selling. And universities need to control costs. Why do you think tuition goes up to exactly the same amount that students are able to take out loans for? It's collusion between the lenders and the universities and the government. Universities should be cost controlled to receive federal funds.
>>73981441
>price controls
uh oh
>>73975638
Also if you want to socialize healthcare then you need to look at how it is in the military because it will be similar. People abuse it to get out of work and every other thing. I guarantee once we give everyone free healthcare a rule like "If they have a doctors appointment then you can't penalize them for it" will come along.
>>73980926
>violent factions have existed in Islam FOREVER
not denying this, but Al Qaeda was a few hundred people at most, and they were living in the mountains of Afghanistan. Now they control large parts of Syria and Iraq, Iran controls the other half of Iraq, Libya, and now they're invading Europe. All of these were causal reactions to the US invasion and destabilization of Iraq, based on the false premise that we knew what was best for their people and that they wouldn't mind having a foreign power occupying their land.
>government assisted college payments
What is FAFSA?
>>73981390
They should incentivize healty habits like not being obese, not smoking and shit like that by offering cheaper insurance. You can choose to eat like shit and smoke, don't take away their rights, but don't encourage it. Make them pay more for their shitty lifestyle which will inevitably cost more for their medical care.
>>73975701
I honestly haven't met a single bernie/hillary person who isn't a loser. In the military everyone supports Cruz or Trump(except for some Dems) and all the republicans are always exercising all the time and pretty knowledgeable on stuff. All of the Democrats are... not doing that is the kindest way to put it
>>73981628
>Make them pay more for their shitty lifestyle which will inevitably cost more for their medical care.
they aren't paying a dime if they're getting free healthcare
>>73981390
>Devalues education further. Do you want people to have to spend 10 years in education just to get into pleb tier work?
Does this happen in Europe or Australia a lot? I think both of them still value a college degree. America used to have the same system until just a generation ago. From the founding until 1990 you could get a college education with minimal to no debt.
>>73974768
>I think that military spending should be lowered enough to provide universal healthcare and government assisted college payments.
This is the Donald Trump platform.
CUTTING MILITARY SPENDING:
Donald Trump wants to reduce military spending by cutting boondoggle development programs and forcing our allies to pay us for our protection.
UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE:
Donald Trump has gone on the record repeatedly saying that he supports universal health care for all Americans, using a system modeled after the one in Canada.
>I’m a conservative on most issues but a liberal on health. It is an unacceptable but accurate fact that the number of uninsured Americans has risen to 42 million. Working out detailed plans will take time. But the goal should be clear: Our people are our greatest asset. We must take care of our own. We must have universal healthcare.
-Donald J. Trump
Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.206-208 & 218 , Jul 2, 2000
>>73981441
The government should give each student a voucher worth the cost of tuition at university, and leave it to the university and the federal or state government to negotiate the price. Currently, the government is writing blank checks to universities of all kinds, whether they are a shit-tier like Kaplan or Harvard.
>>73981574
But your assumption seems to be that had we left them alone, they'd all be peaceful and prosperous. Surely, you don't actually believe that. That sandbox was going to be full of shit whether we took a dump in it or not.
Think about how inefficient and wasteful colleges are. They really are the worst possible way to deliver job education; they are from a bygone era where college really was about gaining knowledge which is now freely available, more quickly, online or at the library.
Now, do you actually feel okay about giving that institution free access to taxpayer dollars?
I work in EMS. I write grants for equipment, because the people who sell us equipment know we get taxes and fed bux. So they price accordingly; ridiculously expensive.
>>73981684
They pay for it in either taxes or higher premiums and copays. Nothing is free. If you want the freedom to make bad choices you need to accept paying for everyone's bad choices. If you want to pay less, then you have to accept losing those freedoms you can't have both.
>>73981628
>incentivize
Do you mean make it a federal crime to drink more than one coke, smoke a cigar, or eat more than one burger a week? It may be healthy but i don't want to go to jail or be shot by a cop for resisting cheesburg arrest.
>>73981242
>Everyone pays into the pot, everyone gets the same care.
that's literally impossible and you know it- otherwise everyone could just pay for themselves and not need insurance at all
>>73981698
It happens in America now. Are you blind?
>>73981778
This is precisely the problem. Student debt is a blank check. It's a scam. We've got to end this.
>>73981904
>They pay for it in either taxes or higher premiums and copays.
i thought only the well off would be paying higher taxes...this doesn't sound too good - a few bad apples dragging down the whole system, smokers and fatties and moochers ruining it for the rest of us - a case we see too often.
>>73981778
You don't fucking UNDERSTAND when you make it free with a voucher, the price approaches infinity. If you have a government price control to keep the price low, the value of the product you get approaches zero.
Government helping with education is exactly why the price is astronomical already. Not a way to make it affordable.
>>73982089
So which freedom do you want to lose? Because American freedom is bankrupting the country.
>>73981767
TIL I'm a Trump supporter
>>73982090
Why are school vouchers so supported by conservatives with respect to K-12 education, but not for higher ed?
>>73982089
Most of the taxes that would go up would be corporate taxes on businesses that offshore jobs and have headquarters in other countries. There would also be huge savings from increasing tariffs for imported goods, cutting goofy military programs like the F-35, and from forcing our allies to pay for our military protection.
>>73982090
>state governments negotiate
Means either the university plays ball with the state government or they don't get the money. They stay competitive or they go away. What's hard to understand about that, anon?
>>73979640
I agree with the end results of your arguments, but if you go to a school in bumfuck nowhere and don't have a literal 4.0 because you decided to take upper level courses along with telling your retarded English teacher he's an idiot because you're an over-emotional 16 year old tired of bullshit, you're not getting any scholarship above 1000 dollars (maybe might pay for two years of books) beyond whatever the university you go to hands out.
For me that max was 15/year out of 40/year. Not everyone knows what they want to do with their life at 18 and some are retards that think they want to be musicians and go to private schools (because going to a state school for music is soooo much more laughable).
I'm not a complete retard so I have a real job that can pay that off, but scholarships aren't some magic thing that everyone can just get. Maybe if you didn't go to one of the worst school districts in your state in one of the worst states for education in the union maybe.
Point is scholarships aren't an argument. The only argument is that other people shouldn't have to pay for your mistakes. Which is a damn fucking good one.
>>73982202
YUP! Same thing here.
My primary voting issues are military and health care, and Trump's positions on both issues are essentially the same as those of Bernie Sanders.
Trump is literally god tier. He takes the best policies from both parties and combines them into the perfect platform to Make America Great Again™.
just use the dutch health care system, be forced to pay health insurance. If you dont pay it you will still be treated but will get a huge bill which, if you cant afford insurance you cant afford that bill, you would need to go to jail. And pills and other stuff all has a maximum price so insurance doesnt get extremely high.
>>73974768
they are all the same.
the united states economy is going to crash one way or the other
then they will flip everyone to full blown communism pretty much all at the same time because so much of the world relys on the us economy - its the perfect crisis
then they will introduce to the world the anti-christ
your mark of the beast will be just like any other communist card that allows you access to food and housing
israel will be the head end of the world govt
its practically over already.
>>73982464
that's pretty much the system Obamacare was supposed to be, but it's pretty shit due to incompetent administration, successful legal challenges, and many insurers not offering good coverage through the exchanges they created.
>>73982344
It's a desperate grab to take back some money they are forced to pay for government mamdayed education. College isn't a requirement of raising your children. You can't go to jail and have your children taken away if you don't pay for their college.
Vouchers are a stop gap to bring some choice into a horrible system where you need to send your kid to the closest school with free slots in it no matter how shitty it is. My local school doesn't even teach English. I can't send my kid there.
>>73974984
Because, in the United States, our lack of universal healthcare is fucking over everyone. Absolutely EVERYONE is being fucked by it.
Know why a hospital charges $800 for an asprin? Because that's how they make up the tens of thousands of dollars they lose out in procedures that are never paid, every day. They insanely overcharge insurance companies because insurance companies sue not to pay on a daily basis, and that's for the people who actually ARE covered by it. Even the coverage rarely gets anywhere close to guaranteeing payment. It's why healthcare costs increased at an astronomical rate and then suddenly began slowing, after the ACA.
For every procedure performed at a major medical practice? You've got the person performing the procedure. The medical coder properly recording it so that you can file for payment.. The medical biller preparing the superbill. The insurance rep receiving it. The claims adjuster trying to figure out if they can deny it. The legal team whose job it is to deny it even if the company has no grounds to do so. The debt collectors whose job it is to try to convince the patient that they owe it. The rep whose job it was to sell the insurance to the patient in the first place.
Universal healthcare is about cutting down the number of people involved from 10-15 per individual procedure to a provider, a patient, a filer, and a payer.
>>73981605
Only available for the poor, screws over kids like me with middle class parents that couldn't pay into my college fund. I lived on my own at 20-21 but still had to file under my parents, who made enough to make me ineligible for the pell grant even though they had no money to contribute to my college funds.
>>73982464
This is morally wrong. Nobody should go to jail because they got sick.
If doctors aren't paid well then they won't want to work as much and fewer kids will want to go into medicine. No matter what healthcare system prev-ales we cannot ignore this cold hard fact.
>>73982685
As I said earlier, a higher ed voucher wouldn't be unlimited; you'd have to pass a national examination to even get one, and when issued it would direct you to university or trade school based on your scores. Liberals would probably object to this portion because it would completley destroy affirmative action
>>73982755
Holy shit, an actual intelligent post on pol
>>73982776
Go talk to the admissions and counselling department.
It makes it harder, but it doesn't make it impossible. There are people at your school whose sole job is helping you get financial assistance. Take advantage of them--they really are there to help, and they will.
>>73982380
No. The possibility is fixed prices or infinite sky rocketing costs. It is a government sponsored education right now. Every one of your friends in college has a Sallie mae government owned loan that they can't declare bankruptcy out of. They don't have to pay the loan until they finish college. That is what made the cost of education so absurd since the 90s. These artificially cheap loans.
Making it actually free just means the colleges can charge whatever they want. You know how medical shit is so expensive? It's because when no one can pay it, the hospital can turn around and get half the stated cost of the procedure from the government.
>have the government negotiate prices with itself
This is why big brains make fun of you Bern cucks.
>>73974768
Hillary is the only candidate who is anywhere near Sanders positions. Vote for her if Sanders doesn't get the nomination.
>>73982920
Then pay your damn insurance
>>73974984
You already pay for everyone, anon. Single payer healthcare just formalizes that arrangement and controls costs. It's immoral for someone to die because the treatment for their disease is too expensive.
Pic related. Consider it.
>>73982755
That's the result of government meddling :^)
Let the free market handle it
>>73974768
>provide universal healthcare
Obabo gave us universal healthcare. That's why my premiums went up without any difference in coverage.
>>73983132
I know you're joking. But it's worth pointing out that the insurance that carries the lowest overhead, in the entire USA? Medicare.
>>73983132
>Let the free market handle it
>>73983192
I'm serious when I say that half the shit in this country, be it major corporations Jewing us or health-care being unaffordable is because of government doctrines in place allowing for it
>>73983120
>spending 283 Billion on interest on debt
Jesus christ, as the debt continues to grow and we start paying higher rates, and we need to take more and more debt to cover the shortfall, we're a larger and larger portion of our budget will be spent on interest and it's just going to spiral out of control.
>>73982997
>That political map
kill yourself
>>73983120
>
Why is science the smallest? REEEEEEEE
>>73974768
Trying to solve our country's problem via taxes and failing to address the root cause as Trump points out doesn't make for a very prosperous nation.
>>73982755
Preach brother. This is what people don't get. Its a huge shit show based on trying to fuck up the next person on the totem pole.
Is anyone else afraid that because of Universal Healthcare your medical history will have to be available to every single doctor in the united states? Aka on a internet server.
>>73974768
>I think that military spending should be lowered enough to provide universal healthcare and government assisted college payments.
Negative military spending isn't possible.
>>73983120
>27% of the budget
>Not even universal
Jesus Christ.
>>73974768
Universal healthcare costs a lot as fuck. We have one and doctors get shit payment (wich is even more frustrating keeping in mind thet spet 7-10 years learning) and you can't get some sophisticated operations for free (aka either you're rich or fuck you if you need one)
>>73974940
Citation needed
I doubt health care is a fifth of the US's gdp
>>73983402
Haha. Ha. You think it already isn't? The end goal RIGHT NOW is so that any time you walk into a new clinic your new doctor can see what any other doctor has said about you.
>>73974768
>US makes massive defense cuts
>Withdraws troops and ships from all corners of the globe.
>China takes over South China sea. Invades Vietnam.
>China now controls over 1/3 of world trade, price of goods quadruple.
>Iran takes over Yemen, starts war with Israel and Saudi Arabia.
>Missiles and gunfire turn Middle East into a bigger shithole than it is now.
>Russia steps in after invading Ukraine and Belarus, uses superior military might to assert self as world police.
>Establishes bases all over the world, including at the US border.
>yfw Russia is now the new global hegemon, and the US is its bitch.
I don't know why you think the US is the only country with imperial ambitions.
>>73982929
Because the govern.ent is so good at negotiating things like the f35 and prisons having a guaranteed minimum number of occupants.
>>73983569
Medicare and Medicaid :^)
>>73983402
I don't give a fuck. I'll just sue anyone who violates hipaa
>>73983587
Not really. Most Western countries have a government assisted universal scheme while spending less per capita than the USA.
>>73983794
kek. more leftists who think they know better than the people who live in the countries they're talking about
>>73983620
It isn't i started going to a new doctor and had to fill out my history myself.
>>73983848
Is what I typed not true?
>>73983610
It does, actually. In fact: that's roughly what your healthcare costs your employer, if you have coverage. Figure out your salary. Now add 25%. That's what you would be getting paid, if it weren't for the coverage you are provided.
And that's only the standard at a major corporation bargaining on behalf of dozens or hundreds of employees. You work for a small business? Go ask your boss how much he's paying to provide you with coverage. It'll knock your fucking socks off.
And the kicker? Get sick in the wrong place and your insurance company is going to sue you. Have major medical expenses? Insurance company is going to sue you. Go to the wrong doctor? Sued. Don't get a cheaper procedure pre-approved? Sued. And for the privilege of being in that position? You lose out on 1/5th of your salary.
So why not get the insurance companies the fuck outa the middle, pay the fifth to a public trust instead, and be able to go to doctor, when you get sick, and not end up in bankruptcy court afterwards?
>>73974984
public healthcare is necessary because it sets a standard. currently american healthcare system is so shit that the third biggest cause of death in the USA is iatrogenic. because hospitals will try to max out the health insurance policy as much as possible to extract the maximum amount from each patient. this in turn makes health care more expensive. there is no incentive to just get it right. instead have 20 MRIs, blood tests ect for a common cold.
>>73983402
>HIPAA
>>73983970
I hope you realize you were talking to russia, and not the netherlands.
>>73976537
but then you should take into account that it would also get rid of medicaid and medicare and other government health benefits and those things combined account for like a trillion
>>73974768
We should not lower millitary spending, cut speciel ed at school cause those kids arent going to college, not pay back any of our debts build a wall and live in the greatest country ever. We can cover college and healthcare by having a wall not supporting illegal immigrants and not paying our debts
https://soundcloud.com/couchtruthing/lets-make-america-great-again
>>73982344
K12 vouchers are to try and introduce choice and give new model private schools a chance.
Key words, new model. Like college needs.
>>73984065
This thread is about the US though. Which is more comparable to Western Europe than Russia.
>>73974768
You could cut the entire military budget (est. 1.5 trillion in 2015) and you would only cover half the cost of Bernie's healthcare plan (3.2 trillion a year), and thats not including all of his propsed budget which is expected to add 18 trillion in debt in only 10 years and this is whith his higher tax increases (other estimates are higher from 21 to 28 trillion).
http://fortune.com/2016/05/09/bernie-sanders-economic-plan-would-add-18-trillion-to-federal-debt-report/
>That sobering assessment comes from a joint analysis released Monday by the nonpartisan Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center and the Urban Institute Health Policy Center, well-known Washington think tanks.
>Democratic presidential candidate Sanders would raise taxes by more than $15 trillion over 10 years, with most of that paid by upper-income earners.
>>73982344
Because opening a building and slapping a cross over the door somehow makes a private school superior to those commie public schools. Fucking poor people think they need to be educated.
>>73984024
>implying this would actually stop someone from accessing information.
>>73984198
The dude was specifically talking about his home country russia though.
>>73983021
Can I get a cost/benefit analysis on moral? You dumb motherfucker.
>>73984465
No it wouldn't stop them but whoever fucked up and let them could be sued for lots and lots of american dollars.
>>73984557
What about other nations fishing for SSN?
>>73982755
Universal healthcare will not fix that
Look at how shitty education is
All universal healthcare will do is create numerous useless bureaucracies
But of course you can't see that
>>73974768
Steven Crowder made a good vid on that
>>73982090
no student loans are why its so expensive. the eternal loan, we can charge anything, non-provable debt that student debt is means that no matter what they charge, you must fucking pay it. and if you dont, enjoy being a poorfag forever. at least this is what they force down the throats of kids at the sales seminars that are highschool.
>>73982755
So the only way to fix our healthcare is through universal healthcare? No other option?
Well looks like I'm a hilldog now
>>73985006
Trump also supports universal healthcare, as does King Socialism.
>>73984721
>be NEET in australia
>cut leg open
>free ambulance gets me to the hospital in 15 minutes
>free emergency room keeps me alive
>four hours later i'm in surgery
>wake up next day, leg back together
>leave in the afternoon
>be american
>die
>>73974768
If you want to see universal healthcare, visit a VA.
The US also spends more because we develop most of the new procedures. Since we take on that R and D cost, nobody else has to. If nobody had incentive to innovate nobody would innovate.
>>73974940
Nigga, here in Europe most countries have universal healthcare without bankrupcy everywhere. How the fuck would you spend 3.2 trillion dollars annually on that?
>>73974768
Don't be a Berniefag.
This shouldn't even be a needed discussion in American politics, but socialism is what we currently have and is why we're getting ass fucked.
Small-Medium local businesses get crushed by the current system we have which Bernie wants to amplify.
The only good he wants is to turn around are shit trade deals. But he fails in hiking up taxes. The economy needs time to heal with low taxes and high interest rates.
We're going to need the high interest rates to fix our currency and go back on the gold standard eventually. We're fucked with this debt.
Military spending should be cut in the sense that we don't intervene all over the fucking world or the NATO countries at least pay us back for all the years of us getting screwed.
However, we should spend enough on military to make it big and strong so China and Russia don't get any ideas - as our leaders have been taunting them to attack us by making us appear to be weak. That's what the Anglo-Saxon Globalists running the West want. They want to bait Russia and China into attacking us.
So by spending enough on military to keep our selves strong, without being the infamous "police of the World" we'd be spending less and being much much safer.
That is what Trumpbois want. Berniefags are so close to being right, but where Bernie fails is hiking up taxes on an already stagnant economy that is ready to be let go at any point the Globalists choose so. That is the inherent problem with socialism - it has already gotten us to where we are. So no Bernie.
>>73981441
Tbh the university system needs to crash
I don't know how people both laugh at shit like gender studies and then turn around with "university should be free"
Like university being completely paid for by the government would create even more useless bullshit on college campuses
Do you know how many rape and sexual assault groups we have on my colllege campus? About 15. All paid for by tuition.
There's so much useless spending that people just too afraid to attack
Even the football stadiums (one of the regularly attacked source of costs by the left) don't cost as much as the useless bureaucratic idiocy
>>73981786
If it helps you sleep at night.
>>73984005
Health savings coops (like a credit union vs a bank) are illegal because they btfo of insurance companies
>>73985293
Yes and it's shitty healthcare that literally only the desperate poorest of the poor should ever need. Stop trying to paint public healthcare like a beautiful thing.
>>73985238
He actually doesn't
It's like you haven't read his healthcare plan
>>73985246
Retard. In Capitalist America that would happen to. Even Trump talks about that. He's for privatized health insurance, but with a brimming economy (especially in health) it would be easier than with socialism to take care of emergency situations like that.
>>73974768
How many hours of cuckold porn did you watch before choosing your candidate?
>>73985293
>>73985493
Portugal is c0rrect
Military spending = tons of civilian and contractor jobs. It is literally a subsidy to employ thousands and also supports business in those towns. You want to people unemployed so there is shit health care available?
>>73985493
Recently I had sebatic cysts removed from my scalp and the only costs I supported was 7€ in taxes for the initial consult and gas to drive to the hospital.
Our healthcare may not be the best, but it's good to know that I won't have to sell a kidney, if one day I break my leg
>>73984967
Student loans in the us ARE a government program. As are most new home loans.
>>73974984
shut up, Poland
>>73974984
Upvoted this post
>>73979479
One of the major problems in this country is that we've outsourced the vast majority of blue collar and service jobs out of the country. Manufacturing has collapsed in regions where it once flourished, local tradesmen can't compete with international corporations, labor is looked down on and disparaged by the media and by college-educated liberals.
Higher education is no longer seen as a privilege for the exceptional and the driven, but an expectation for everyone. All of the problems you see with higher education - the useless degrees, the insane debt, are all symptoms of that underlying problem.
Trade jobs aren't something that should be respected and encouraged, not looked down on. Blue collar work is something that should be brought back to the country, not outsourced through bad trade deals. College should be for the best and brightest, not everyone.
Universal healthcare is one of those rare issues where the right isn't right. But the fucking left wants to combine universal healthcare with universal immigration, so they represent a one-way street to societal collapse anyway. Trust me, I have experience :^)
>>73974768
Cuz he takes as much money from defense contractors as cruz and Trump takes hardly any. And defense contractors are why we went to war with Iraq.
Peace is not profitable, so, yes, defense contractors should be threatened employment. Especially if those wars are unprofitable. Which they will be if you don't want to accept multiculturalism, which has been shown to be an enormous failure in the EU.
>>73974768
>>73974768
Cuz he takes as much money from defense contractors as cruz and Trump takes hardly any. And defense contractors are why we went to war with Iraq.
Peace is not profitable, so, yes, defense contractors should be threatened employment. Especially if those wars are unprofitable. Which they will be if you don't want to accept multiculturalism, which has been shown to be an enormous failure in the EU.
>>73985674
>Military spending = tons of civilian and contractor jobs. It is literally a subsidy to employ thousands and also supports business in those towns. You want to people unemployed so there is shit health care available?
the money saved by reducing spending on military could be more productively spent in the private sector, as is always the case.
>>73986047
the left has gone full retard. it's controlled opposition. what was considered normal 10 years ago like beating the shit out of trannies is now considered evil nazi party policies. so now the left has repositioned its own values as conservative and progressive is now letting trannies into the womens bathroom. so now we have the conservative view framed as accept all trannies but the truely progressive view is to give them all tit jobs.
>>73985756
>Trade jobs aren't something that should be respected and encouraged, not looked down on. Blue collar work is something that should be brought back to the country, not outsourced through bad trade deals
This is all good and idealistic, but in the end no one will be truly down with it because it also means the price of many things will sharply increase because it's way cheaper to outsource and have chinese children working on it, and it's not like blue-collar factory jobs today give people with families enough money for a confortable living
>>73986325
Boeing and a couple thousand other businesses will close overnight.
>>73986714
The US did just fucking fine manufacturing most of its own shit for ~100 years before we started employing pseudo-slave labor from Asia.
Sure, it would probably mean going more than six months without buying a new computer or phone. How horrible!
>>73984506
It has to do with waking up in the morning and being able to live with yourself. I wouldn't expect you to understand.
>>73986935
But muh free shit.
>>73983188
Your premiums went down before? Or stayed flat? Because my premiums have gone up every year since I got off my parents' insurance.
>>73983021
nah bro. it's immoral if its easily prevented. nobody gives a shit about cancer patients and their million dollar treatment for an extra year or two of life.
>>73974768
>>73987101
How about the morality of theft and murder, that is taking my money to pay for you not being responsible enough to know you are unfit for college?
You wouldn't point a gun at me on the street and say gimme five hundred bucks for tuition. But you'll let n it's officer do it with a police escort.
>>73987066
That was before inflation going up, the state today is not really at all comparable to what it was back then
>Sure, it would probably mean going more than six months without buying a new computer or phone
Or you know, you have a car, you NEED to have a working car, and then a certain piece breaks and you pay and horribly high amount of money fixing it, because the piece is hella expensive. But at least it's US made, not created by chinks
>>73987571
Either you pay for education or you pay for a lack of education. The latter costs a lot more. Your call, an-cap.
>>73987571
Not to mention, if we had assholes like you running around back in the 70s and 80s when I was in elementary school during the cold war, we could easily have lost. Do you think taxes are theft to the point where you don't want to pay for education? The science education that put us on top and kept us there for decades? Kiss my ass. Fuck off out of my country.
>>73986506
I see the whole trannies/fags debate as a smokescreen to keep peoples' minds off of more important issues like the erosion of democracy, the power held by globalist bankers and the ever decreasing liberty and personal independence of the citizenry.
The outlandish state of the "lgbt movement" is a symptom of a larger disease, not the disease itself.
>>73987702
No. Fucking a. Dumn shits with 90 IQ going to college dumbing down by calculus class? No. Fuck.
Our government education is so fucking good that after 12+ years you're not qualified to flip fucking burgers for mcdonalds. And your solution is 'no no. All we need is ONE more beauracracy and one more government prgors. And four more years of school. The first 12 were just warm up. For realsies we will do good with four more years.'
Fuck your bullshit
>>73975773
0311 fag here I strongly believe this as well
>>73983132
>free market
>doesn't understand the inelasticity of demand for medicine
>>73988514
>put people in government who hate government
>they defund essential services
>essential services don't work
>TAXES THEFT GOVERNMENT BAD
You got tricked, anon.
>>73988983
Why do the states with some of the highest per pupil spending still fucking suck and get btfo with states with half the spending. It's not a matter of defunding the schools. Schools are not defunded. People always fucking pay for schools. Schools fail at education because they are shitty daycare centers and indoctrination facilities.
>>73989791
>indoctrination facilities
Talk to me when you get out of high school. You would have fucking killed us in the cold war, anon. We'd all be speaking Russian if you were the one allowed to talk. That's the problem with your generation, the only enemies you've got are the fictional ones the government makes up to get you to watch CNN and accept routine cavity searches before flying. Please kill yourself, but shoot up your homeroom first. Kid.
>>73974768
(You)
>>73989993
>he is anti commie.
>he doesn't know it was communist prty plan to infiltrate American education and wreck it.
It didn't happen quick enough for them to win, but it did happen, and they are still wrecking it. You re defending the communists. They did win, you just aren't speaking Russian. Your grand children will be communists
