and stop food tariffs, wouldn't this pretty much kill most of the farmers in Europe?
So, would it be good to stop all the subsidies and food protectionism in Europe?
Or the government could just fund the subsidies with the money they give the EU...
>and stop food tariffs, wouldn't this pretty much kill most of the farmers in Europe?
Yes.
European farmes cant compete with the ones in the USA or Argentinia
>So, would it be good to stop all the subsidies and food protectionism in Europe?
You would waste 2000 Years of european farmer culture.
Europes succes was build on the backbones of our farmers, i think we should try to keep the european agriculture alive
>>73969494
>Be Sweden
>pay 100 euro
>get 50 euro back, lots of it in food subsidies
We could just give 50 to our own farmers and keep the rest of the money for ourselves. The EU fucking sucks.
>>73969494
Subsidies keep farming unprofitable. It doesn't matter inside a single nation how you pay for it (taxes or your own cash), but subsidized western wheat and corn are for example the reason for Africa being poor.
>>73969624
>Or the government could just fund the subsidies with the money they give the EU...
But why? Why not just import cheap food and use the money for subsidies and give it back to the taxpayers?
>>73969706
>You would waste 2000 Years of european farmer culture.
But it uncompetitive, why not just let it die?
>>73969706
>Europes succes was build on the backbones of our farmers, i think we should try to keep the european agriculture alive
Why? Europe had a big textile industry once, now it is no more. We import all clothes from Asia. And we still aren't all running around naked.
>>73969760
>Subsidies keep farming unprofitable. It doesn't matter inside a single nation how you pay for it (taxes or your own cash), but subsidized western wheat and corn are for example the reason for Africa being poor.
So all subsidies should be abandoned, and all tariffs on food, no?
>>73969882
It's competitive. But you have different systems competing. Besides our food production would depend on foreign producers. If there will ever be war we would be fucked up beyond recognition. Furthermore, if we would stop it our knowledge would go down the gutter. Americans wouldn't use European technology since they have other needs in their production.
If you don't understand this you're either too stupid or a shill. In both cases fuck off.
>>73969882
those textiles have a pathetic quality per cost and are enriching the corporations
>>73969946
since other countries like USA will not stop subsidies then we would disadvantage our agriculture if it received no help
>>73970481
>If there will ever be war we would be fucked up beyond recognition.
Why? Do you think Austria cannot use its land to grow food then?
If you are concerned about a footshortage if the world fights a war against Austria, Austria could have a 6 month grain and food supply in store. Would be a fraction of the costs of food subsidies.
>>73970626
>since other countries like USA will not stop subsidies then we would disadvantage our agriculture if it received no help
So? If the USA wants to subsidize its farmers and thus provide Europe with cheap food at US taxpayer expense, shouldn't we just say "thank you"?
>>73970781
If you don't do farming you can't farm. You can't look this shit up on the Internet. You need to do it for years and more years. It's the same with any trade. If all of Europe would stop their farming right now, without anybody doing it for 10 years for example. You couldn't restart it after this 10 years. The efficiency would probably go down to 25% of the original or less. You fuckshit. This isn't a video game where you only click a button.
I'm not concerned. I'm talking about how to correctly lead a country you dipshit.
>>73971262
Any 4 year old can put a potato in a hole of dirt. Any 5 year old can put seeds into a cornfield. Any 6 year old can feed chickens.
Not sure what the heck you are talking about.
Food subsidies are bad. I do not want to have my money go to 1% of farmers who cannot compete internationally.
>>73969882
or just get rid of prohibitive laws that make it so European farming will never be competitive.
>all of Europe fell for the GMO's are scary meme
KEK
>>73971939
GMOs are scary. They are scary because they are American. Europeans do not want American products.
>>73971644
>0/10
kill yourself then go on reddit
>flood the continent with barbarian hordes
>cut off all funding for farms
>food prices skyrocket
What could possibly go wrong?
>>73972418
lol dude the free market will fix it
>>73972418
>>food prices skyrocket
Actually, if you stop quotas, tariffs and subsidies, food prices would actually go down massively.
>>73972497
Subsidies are what keeps food prices low. You think American farms dumping corn on the world is an accident? They're paid to farm that damn much food by our government.
If subsidies in the US were ended, for example, Africa would starve in a month, and there'd be riots here by the end of the year.
Insert British joke about fat Americans.
>>73969494
Our milk already costs less than water while being better than anything else anyone has to provide. Farmers have been and will remain forever cucked. A protest or two here and there, yet nothing ever gets done.
>>73972819
I thought milk in Europe tasted like shit
Subsidies exist in many places like Finland to even keep sufficient food production in the country. Only a fucking idiot would balloon their population above what can be domestically produced (like Saudis kek).
>>73972865
>European milk tasting like shit
>that flag
Are you an Aussie on a vacation?
>>73972865
That's because we don't dump tons of sugar in it like you do.
>>73972865
Only Swedish milk, which has the higher content of semen and estrogen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTxFRFydcAk
>>73969494
>let's kill of the, admittedly, inefficient food production in Europe
>let's import all our food from overseas where it is polluted as fuck with heavy metals, pesticides and GMOs
Nothing could possibly go wrong.
Do you have any idea how CHEAP it is to protect European agriculture? 58 billion EUR in 2015. In order to feed a continent of 510 million people.
Do you know how much Germany ALONE will spend on refugees in 2016?
https://www.rt.com/news/343016-germany-refugee-spending-2020/
>Germany to spend €93.6bn on refugees.
That's in order to feed and house 1,5 million dindus. So fuck off with your subversive propaganda and shilling for Monsanto.
>>73973174
>where it is polluted as fuck with heavy metals, pesticides and GMOs
What?
>>73973174
>Do you have any idea how CHEAP it is to protect European agriculture? 58 billion EUR in 2015.
58 billion Euro... cheap??? And that is just the EU subsidies. We are not even talking about the 100 billion in additional state subsidies. Not even mentioning the tariffs and trade barriers which cost another 100 billion because of higher food prices.
WTF are you even talking about?
>>73969706
>European farmes cant compete with the ones in the USA or Argentinia
French Farmers can't.
Dutch farmers can - IF USA also ended its farming subsidies of course.
>>73973253
>What?
I've read somewhere that up 40 percent of the food produced for EU imports in third world countries fails EU consumer regulations.
>>73973253
You spend more money on importing trash than on protecting the food security of Europe.
Subsidies are what's killing our agriculture.
>>73973174
>In order to feed a continent of 510 million people.
We still have to buy our food.
And a large portion of those """""farming""""" subsidies goes to golf courses, motocross parks, bull fighting and castle estates.
![flat,800x800,070,f[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/iNQ4IdG.jpg "flat,800x800,070,f[1].jpg")
>>73969760
>get rid of development aid
>spend the money on increased local farming subsidies
>>73973371
But the EU is extremely critical on food imports.
A single GMO kernel can disqualify an entire shipload.
Mind you: they don't do this for our safety, but as a sneaky way to limit imports and thus protect local farmers.
Stop with the subsidies (socialism) and tax foreign products that you already have. Also stop selling euro tech (mainly weapons) to enemies and sell it to allies. Also fuck China.
>>73973670
>A single GMO kernel can disqualify an entire shipload.
That doesn't seem to make sense to me - how would they even find it?
>>73973814
they sneakily trained jews from across the eu to sniff them out by slathering GMO's all over gold, tricking the jews mind.
>>73973814
>how would they even find it?
They only take a couple of samples of course.
But if one of the samples has a single positive result they disqualify the entire load, even if the next 100 samples would have been clear.
For local products there are far more relaxed standards, where some contamination is always allowed.
But not on imports.
>>73972642
Protectionism in America and Europe are the reason why food prices are a lot higher than they could be. The system of protectionism is made off subsidies, export subsidies, tariffs, quotas etc.
If you eliminate all these restrictions, investments in low cost producing countries would massively go up, reducing food prices worldwide.
>>73973684
>Stop with the subsidies (socialism) and tax foreign products that you already have. Also stop selling euro tech (mainly weapons) to enemies and sell it to allies. Also fuck China.
If you stop subsidies, the "poor" farmers will drive their modern tractors to block roads for 3 weeks, because they really have nothing to do anyway, but smoke weed and watch their bank account which gets filled by EU subsidy money and other bribes who want to "keep European farming healthy".
What BS. Farming is just another industry. We need no stinking tariffs, quotas, subsidies and other barriers for competition. Let farmers compete based on at what quality and price they can produce.
>>73973670
>A single GMO kernel can disqualify an entire shipload.
As they should. Biological contaminants are dangerous. Let one vector in and then before you know it you won't have any pure-strain plants left in Europe.
>>73974003
>But if one of the samples has a single positive result they disqualify the entire load, even if the next 100 samples would have been clear.
But that's not how statistics work. If you take a 0,001 percent sample and there's something wrong with it your perfectly justified in throwing the whole thing out.
>>73974217
You want to offshore the EU food production? Absolute madman.
>>73974051
They keep the prices high in Europe, but lower the prices in Africa where our excess production is dumped. - this makes life impossible for the African farmer so they migrate to Europe which was the plan all along.
>>73974051
Why does that even matter? No one in Europe goes hungry. And no one in Europe dies from eating polluted food imported from shitholes.
If the rest of the world can't feed themselves then fuck them. Famines are nature's way of clearing out the trash.
>>73974308
>You want to offshore the EU food production? Absolute madman.
I am a free trade person. I believe that all industries, including farming, should compete on a fair and worldwide basis.
If another country supports its farmers unfarily with subsidies, put tarrifs on these goods to compensate for such unfair practices. But otherwise, why not let the consumer decide whether he or she wants to buy a Czech product or a Russian pig or Algerian corn or Brazilian beef or American eggs or Canadian potatoes?
>>73969494
no because most subsidies end up going towards rapeseed at least here in the uk.
>>73969494
No, just France
>>73974248
>Biological contaminants are dangerous.
Only if they get into the wild.
Which is far less likely than some American tourist accidentally bringing seeds under their shoes.
>>73974354
>African farmer
Africans don't farm because farming requires foresight.
>>73974432
>why not let the consumer decide whether he or she wants to buy a Czech product or a Russian pig or Algerian corn or Brazilian beef or American eggs or Canadian potatoes?
Because once you drop subsidies and allow your homegrown industry to be wiped out by countries with zero health standards there's no choice left for the consumer: he can either starve or eat arsenic rice or Agent Orange tomatoes.
>>73974255
Yet that's not how they treat European farmers.
And you have to realize that contamination isn't something you can prevent.
Every ship will likely have at least some banned GMO in it, all it takes is one bird eating from one field and then taking a poop on the next.
>>73974432
You are a fucking retard. Remember the OPEC oil embargo in 1973? Imagine if someone decided to try the same with food.
>>73974617
>Yet that's not how they treat European farmers.
Because there's a blanket ban on GMOs in EU.
>>73974217
Yes germanbro.
If I wanted to become a farmer I would be forced to play the socialist game and cry for gibs. This is a highly regulated activity in which you get paid to either produce or not. There is no free market or competition and the large distribution chains own your ass. There is virtually no agriculture here.
ITT: People that know nothing about the lives of farmers and farming
>>73974777
I mean when it comes to other stuff like dioxine, lead, rat droppings, etc.
>>73972865
dude your milk comes in fucking plastic containers
>>73974794
Does the EU subsidize cork trees?
>>73974794
Small farmers are in a lose-lose situation. They can't compete with larger farmers with connections and more land, and they can't afford to sell their land either, because they'll get nothing in return. All the subsidies go to the large sharks. You could stop all subsidies and that still won't change the fact that the ones that are ahead make the rules of the game and you're in just to add to the prize pool. The people don't really "choose" much, because the average costumer doesn't care that much. They will buy what is sold to them at their convenience store nearby. Some will complain but they all keep buying.
>>73974995
Yes. We don't do anything without EU subsidies.
>>73975182
If the big sharks eat it all then we must not feed them anymore. They will have to learn how to hunt or die. People who get things for free never learn to get them by themselves. But we need to have a strong hand with those who try to circle around laws.
The small fish, like most Portuguese farmers, just want the government to leave them alone.
>>73974603
>Because once you drop subsidies and allow your homegrown industry to be wiped out by countries with zero health standards there's no choice left for the consumer: he can either starve or eat arsenic rice or Agent Orange tomatoes.
That makes no sense. People will always have the choice between lowly priced food and quality food. Those who have no money these days have to purchase low quality food right now, like horse meat lasagne.
>>73971644
what is Africa starving all the dam time
>>73969494
you don't need to eat the refugees will do the eating for you.
>>73974432
>He thinks the market would regulate itself
Bumping this one time to see more of OP trying to justify himself
>>73979420
>Bumping this one time to see more of OP trying to justify himself
Okay, let's dumb it down for you. If you do not distort the market, the products get cheaper. It is a universal rule.
>>73979832
Yes that was already spoken about in this thread. As goes the quality as giant agricultural companies control too many to be compeat against.
Especialy if you consider that in a globelized world regulations for safety, health etc. are often much lower but also cheaper.
Not even getting started with soil erosion which will make things much more expansive in the future
>>73980101
People buy for two reasons, 1. quality and 2. price.
Why should quality products suffer if you remove restrictions so that low price products get cheaper?
What the fuck has soil erosion to do with removing tariffs, subsidies and quotas as well as non-tariff shit restrictions?
>europe stops producing food
>half the continent dies of hunger
>rest becomes some form of alien hermaphrodites thanks to American GMO and chemical tampering
>>73980466
>>europe stops producing food
>>half the continent dies of hunger
>>rest becomes some form of alien hermaphrodites thanks to American GMO and chemical tampering
Why should the continent die of hunger?
Why should GMO lead to hermaphrodites?
What the hell are French people taught in school?
>>73980328
>People buy for two reasons, 1. quality
I'm not even going to explain that to you. YOu should be well aware of the "Geiz ist geil" mentality of the large population.
>What the fuck has soil erosion to do with removing tariffs, subsidies and quotas as well as non-tariff shit restrictions?
It's cheaper for the producer to give no shits about healthy or sustainable ways of production. If the price is the only aspect then people won't watch 50 or 100 years into the future to think about the consequences
>>73980616
>YOu should be well aware of the "Geiz ist geil" mentality of the large population.
So? Then they do not care for quality and buy for price. Their choice. I for one buy for quality. But I am also rich.
>>73980616
>It's cheaper for the producer to give no shits about healthy or sustainable ways of production.
It is called capitalism. Unsustainable production is less profitable than sustainable production of healthy products. The Chinese buy German baby food because they do not trust Chinese manufacturers.
>>73980616
>If the price is the only aspect then people won't watch 50 or 100 years into the future to think about the consequences
What do you suppose happens in 50 or 100 years? I couldn't care less about those timeframes myself. "Nach mir die Sintflut."
>>73980535
Because American produced food is spiked with a ton of shit to keep Americans docile, and the world already has a shortage of food.
>>73969494
>Being out of the EU means that food subsidies will magically disappear
Its not like the countries can do it themselves.
>>73980797
>Nach mir die Sinnflut
Ok I give up. If you think that way you are not worth of anyones time
>>73969494
Yes. It means we get cheaper food. The European Union not only has food tariffs, but actually piles up food and leaves to rot to create artificial demand for it. Therefore driving up food prices and increasing farmers profits. We're the ones who get burned by this. They're doing all this to increase profits.
>>73981344
Why? Why should I care what is going on in Europe in 100 years? What possible incentive could I have to care?
>>73981437
>The European Union not only has food tariffs, but actually piles up food and leaves to rot to create artificial demand for it.
They are not doing this any more. It had bad press. The EU and states now pay farmers to not do anything on their land to cut production and hike prices.
>>73981453
nigger
>>73981437
>but actually piles up food and leaves to rot to create artificial demand for it
do you have proof of that ?
because I'll take a very concrete example, Poland has been flooding the market with a massive amount of milk and eggs, thus the purchase price dropped tremendously for retailers and French agricultors cannot make ends meet when the retail price either stagnated or increased.
>>73978181
you've been brainwashed to think it wont
>>73981755
>you've been brainwashed to think it wont
True. It puzzles me how some people seriously think we will be better off if markets are restricted, trade is restricted, a very small group of people is subsidized massively etc.
Why the hell is wrong with people these days? Free trade is important, free trade makes us rich. Restricted trade is hurting everyone worldwide.
>>73981532
Have you got a source for that? To my knowledge they stopped doing it, but resumed it in 2009.
>>73981586
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/4316726/EU-butter-mountain-to-return.html
>>73981532
>It had bad press.
Gee I fucking wonder why.
>>73981586
You do realise your example is an advert against the Euro? Free trade is fine if constituent countries have their own currencies to protect from this shit, if not you get what you described from Poland. Forcing farmers to dump produce to keep prices high for the farmers is insanity.
>>73969494
>tfw this will allow the market to put stupid grain farmers out of business and ensure that hydroponics continues its trend towards becoming the dominant means of plant-based food production
>>73981947
>2009
>in the aftermath of a major economic collapse
>nothing more recent
>price of milk in europe is literally crashing
britshit please, I hate the EU as well but get a grip
>>73981984
>You do realise your example is an advert against the Euro? Free trade is fine if constituent countries have their own currencies to protect from this shit, if not you get what you described from Poland. Forcing farmers to dump produce to keep prices high for the farmers is insanity.
I'm not pro-eu at all but there used to exist exportation quotas per country that were lifted a few years ago.
Since Poland production costs are much lower than in France then the lift of the quotas hurt us the most since we have a living standard well above 90% of the union.
In the south Spanish labor is putting people out of business because they work for lower wages, often illegally, during the day and then go home over the border to spend their money.
>>73969494
If other people produce food better than you, and people want to buy their food instead of yours, then it's perfectly fine if you farmers were to lose out. Instead what you do is you - through violence - make food more expensive for everyone else in your country to prop up a few uncompetitive farmers. Do what you're good at - not what you're not good at.
>>73969754
Literally this.
I don't want to subsidize retarded French and Italian farmers because they're too fucking lazy to modernize their farming. Our own farmers would be able to compete internationally without stupid EU rules anyway, and wouldn't need any subsidies at all.
Fuck the EU.
>>73971644
>>73971262
see Zimbabwe this literally happened
>>73982063
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/moves-to-aid-farmers-as-butter-mountains-return-to-eu-34540002.html
>>73982445
>I don't want to subsidize retarded French and Italian farmers because they're too fucking lazy to modernize their farming
Good thing you don't subsidize shit then because France is a net contributor to the EU.
>>73982487
thanks, and it's actually a good move by the EU somewhat
>>73982513
Because the entire EU budget is just agricultural subsidies right?
Fucking mongoloid.
>>73969494
USA subsidises their factory farms and dumps the excess as "Aid" so black Africans don't farm. Europe should be food independent so if USA do it first then maybe.
>>73982605
It depends which way you look at it. Farmers will love it. The average Joe on the street will not.
>>73982742
France gives more than it receives period, whatever the allocation is, we lose 2-3 billions a year to the EU.
>>73969494
Farming is unusual because of the significant lag between input and product, where the volume of production is very hard to control.
Getting rid of government intervention would make food significantly more expensive.
Right now food prices depend slightly on year-to-year seasonal effects, but government controls keep anything from swinging too far in either direction. So, if there is a drought for instance, the government will support the farmer for a year. Likewise, if there is a massive crop boom, and supply/demand makes prices drop so low the farmers can't recoup their investment from the begining of the year, then again the government will step in.
Now, if we suddenly stopped, yes, lots of farmers (maybe even most) would go out of business. Very large factory farms would mostly survive, and get much larger buying the failing farms.
Now, after that we wouldn't see a worldwide food shortage. BUT farmers would need to start preparing to subsidize themselves for bad years on the good years, and build up multiple years worth of savings.
That means, significantly higher price increases on normal years, lower prices on boom years, and stupendously high prices on drought years.
Supply/demand.
>>73982850
for two decades it's been the same shit anyway, smallest price hike is permanent, but retailers never drop their price even when the market crashes.
Price of retail milk hasn't dropped 1c even though milk lost half of its market value.
>>73969494
De-restriction of the food industries would allow some to survive without subsidy.
Allowing nations to serve their own interests instead of the interests of the EU more would also allow some agriculture to thrive.
Countries paying into the EU are also losing out, since we could just give our farmers twice as much subsidies or, even better, investment, if Europe didn't decide how and where to spend our money.
I know it ended like a decade ago but I'm still mad about muh beef, and I'll always be mad about muh fishing fleet, and not being able to import global goods for processing and selling into europe
>>73982884
>Farming is unusual because of the significant lag between input and product
Like 4-5 months for grain?
>>73982856
Completely missing the point. All the countries with agricultural sectors that actually modernized instead of rioting and begging for Brussels handouts are being held back by you retards.
Without CAP, Europe's agricultural sector would flourish. But no, you and the Italians primarily are holding the entire continent back like a literal tumor.
>>73969494
I dunno, you better figure it out fast though because you can't afford it without us.
>>73983074
this desu
>take money away from countries with successful agriculture
>give it to countries with failing agriculture
>now both fail instead of just one
t-thanks
>>73983019
AND very hard to control volume.
And yes. That's a long time in the market. It takes 18 hours to make a car, and you have a constant profit flow after the initial investment.
Farming means the risk of the initial investment every single year.
>>73972642
Subsidies means that the common consumer can only buy from industries that need to be protected, thus they will almost lyways be given the product that is either more expensive, lesser quality,or both than what they could possibly achieve in a free market.
I'm not saying this is good or bad, but inside protectionism, food prices usually go somewhat higher.
>>73983165
>I dunno, you better figure it out fast though because you can't afford it without us.
Anime watching Pakis? I am sure we can afford farming without you.
>>73972865
Europe isn't a single country and milk varies across Europe... are you talking about some refrigerated UHT Milk you got in some Spanish holiday resort?
>>73983074
We wouldn't need subsides if the € didn't exist.
>>73983214
>It takes 18 hours to make a car
It take several years to develop a car, build a factory and then produce cars.
It takes 4-5 months from the decision to farm to the grain harvest. That is a short time from decision to product.
>>73982924
Maybe that's true for France, but here in the UK the price of milk has been going down as of late. I'm willing to bet that this will jack up the prices. That is its purpose after all.
>>73983312
Wll tell that your rotten leadership.
That stupid meme "currency" was their idea after all.
>>73983360
I like how you're totally ignoring the second half of my sentence. Like a true bong.
>>73983616
and it backfired horribly, but what do you expect from something thought up by jews, commies, socialists, the NSA and the CIA
>>73983376
yeah milk is generally a loss leader for supermarkets and the margins they allow for farmers are tiny.... thus lots of butthurt dairy farmers constantly complaining about supermarkets...
>>73983265
Then you'll have no problem with us leaving the EU :^)
>>73974217
>We need no stinking tariffs, quotas, subsidies and other barriers for competition.
Independence and national security necessitate keeping domestic food production viable.
Your economics101, 'muh globalisation' can eat shit.
>>73983312
Fairly sure French farms were heavily subsidized before the euro.
And French farms are notoriously inefficient.
They are romantic and cute, don't get me wrong, but there is just no way they can compete against modern mass production.
>>73969494
no they would just grow more profitable crops instead of the ones being subsidized. People would still need food and are willing to pay for it. It would be more efficient without
https://soundcloud.com/couchtruthing/lets-make-america-great-again
>>73983918
modern mass production ends up making the ground sterile and permanently pollutes the environment moreso than already massively polluting methods.
the problem is that we actually have to compete on our domestic market with cheaper, lower quality goods from places like eastern europe
>>73983312
While the Euro is a blight as well, on every economic activity not just the agricultural sector, your farmers wouldn't be able to compete with their 1950s tech and 1800s technique famalam
>>73983858
You can have a perfectly profitable agricultural business in Europe. Rather than subsidizing what isn't viable, money should be spent investing in what DOES work.
>>73983858
>Independence and national security necessitate keeping domestic food production viable.
Why would anyone want "independence" and what the hell would cheaper food somehow impact "national security"? The exact same health standards would apply for imported food as domestically produced food.
>>73969494
>If the EU and all of Europe abandons food subsidies
>german flag
I am on to you, kraut. You already killed all electronics manufacturing in Europe, are you going after food now?
Yes, we get it, german economy is too strong for anyone to compete. No reason to beat us over the head with it. Just keep sending these cheques and we will pretend we don't remember your past crimes.
>>73982924
I think the real cost of selling milk is in refrigeration and the short shelf life, not production.
>>73984173
>we will pretend we don't remember your past crimes.
[spoiler]no we won't[/spoiler]
>>73984255
sterilized milk doesn't need to be refrigerated until exposed to air
>>73984152
>Why would anyone want "independence"
This is what Germans actually believe.
>>73984152
>The exact same health standards would apply for imported food as domestically produced food.
Not according to TAFTA
>>73984404
But sterilized milk is disgusting.
>>73984487
How is this an answer? Why would anyone want "food independence"? What good does it do except for increasing taxes and hiking food prices?
>>73984487
Well, of course. Their sense of national identity has been destroyed.
>>73984152
>>73984579
it's like 90% of the retail milk
>>73984550
Sorry, frog, the truth is, the same health standards apply regardless of what you are saying.
>>73984111
Yet Dutch farmers do fine.
>>73984665
.....in France.
Sorry to break it to you: but French milk is notorious among tourists. - it's the thing we hate the 2nd most when we visit you.
>>73984774
We produce much more than you do.
>holland and france argue over milk production in a thread celebrating germany's takeover of the european economies
I like to imagine thats how EU meetings go like.
>>73984111
>lower quality goods from places like eastern europe
but western and northern food tastes like shit, hows eastern food lower quality?
>>73984111
>with cheaper lower quality goods
>lower quality
>>73984896
Why's that?
>>73984111
Back in the good old days...
>high quality X
>only 5% of people have it
Now, in this degenerate world....
>slightly lower quality X
>90% of people have it
>>73984896
We export at higher margins.
Because the rest of the world actually wants our products.
![0,,15556998_4,00[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IYYDfnf.jpg "0,,15556998_4,00[1].jpg")
>>73985077
BULGARIA FEATURED IN A GRAPH
>>73984143
>You can have a perfectly profitable agricultural business in Europe. Rather than subsidizing what isn't viable, money should be spent investing in what DOES work.
And what would that be? What would work that would maintain the quality of EU produce? I ask because I have eaten both USA and UK produce since I've lived in both and I can tell you that the vegetables in the USA are shit tier in comparison to the UK.
>>73984152
>Why would anyone want "independence"
Same reason everyone wants their own car. It empowers the country to make its own choices without being susceptible to blackmail via food embargo by butthurt shit-stains in the EU government, for example.
>what the hell would cheaper food somehow impact "national security"?
You are assuming that cheaper food will be produced in sufficient quantity in each country to be able to feed its population. This is almost 100% certainly bullshit.
>The exact same health standards would apply for imported food as domestically produced food.
Imported food produced by people in countries where misery is a daily nuisance. European working people didn't go through the industrialization shit and misery for centuries so that you could then throw them under the boss in favour or pakis, chinks and niggers in bum-fuck-nowhere willing to work in appalling conditions for pennies and whose daily living expenses are miniscule compared to anyone living in the EU.
>>73985207
That isn't about who's the poorer nigger
>>73984896
Not per km2. We use the modern industrialized form of farming, and it's possible despite the overly strict environmental standards. Not to mention the cost of ground in the Netherlands is FAR higher than it is in France. Yet our farmers manage a business that's actually export viable, unlike France.
There is literally no excuse.
>>73984959
Pretty much. Throw in the one slav country yelling that he needs more handouts, Brits saying someone off to the side without anyone caring, and you have the EU meeting of ministers right there.
The EU creates artificial food shortages to increase the prices of food in the EU. It'd be much better to leave the EU, subsidize the farmers using the money we save from leaving the EU and allow them to continue working while selling somewhat low-priced food.
Or they could just grow crops that actually make them money.
>>73969494
You mean the farmers who currently let their goods rot in warehouses in order to keep prices up?
>>73969494
you should understand that food has stragtegic importance
no one wants hungry soldiers.
To just rely on other to provide food for you would be idiotic.
>>73985135
Maybe in communist countries but here since the 80's the quality is shit and most people can barely afford it.
>>73985202
>can't afford to keep up quality because of foreign competition
>hurr durr lower quality
>>73985338
most of the subsides France gets go to "modern" farms and the small producers get next nothing, it's actually one of the big issues here
>>73985207
Surely Bulgaria should get more EU spending for farming? Too bad says Germany, France gets it all.
god I hope so the lazy always on strike french are killing our agriculture with their bazillion shekels subsidies.
>>73985572
for fuck sake we are net contributors, we don't "get" anything from the EU
>>73985675
>>73985675
The EU should just reform into Germany doing everything ever for everyone and the rest of us getting the dole from the profits.
>>73985572
Why would you want anything from Bulgaria when France produces quality food in practically every region in it's territory.
>>73985885
meanwhile Poland is like 90% built with EU money
>>73985425
Where did I say lower quality?
Dutch farmers compete by offering SUPERIOR quality (or technically, superior marketing) so they get top money.
Because they get so little subsidies they can't afford to waste soil on inferior products.
>>73986004
I thought the EU was meant to benefit everyone, especially the poorest nations like Bulgaria.
>>73986029
You get markets to sell your goods in.
>>73985995
Germany is the country that benefits the most from the EU, they get cheap polish workforce in the east to make their cars, control the BCE with an economic policy that ruins everyone but them and crashed the Greek economy for profit.
>>73986165
it's not a charity project
>>73986181
Not when the U.S. cuts you off from one of your main markets (Russia for pork producers)
>>73986191
But your graph >>73986029 shows we are already moving towards Germany being the bread winner for the EU family, and the rest of us being unemployed basement dwelling neets hoping daddy Deutschlande drops us $20 to go get pizza this saturday.
>>73986165
The EU benefits bulgaria more than it benefits France
>>73986261
I'm having a good laugh reading that with that flag
>>73986004
We sell mostly to Russia, but not at the output we could.
>>73986288
Germany makes money at the expense of all other developed European country because of both their geographical position and their close ties with America.
>>73986261
So the EU is just a neo-liberal project that ends up fucking over as many poor countries for cheap labour as possible. :^)
>>73986351
Even now with the sanctions?
>>73985572
Yes, Bulgaria is getting scammed.
Don't know how that happened - probably just too slow to join up.
In a fair world they should be getting about as much as Poland.
>>73985350
This.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0
>>73986569
With the sanctions we can't sell much at all, but we do still buy oil and gas, and we still accept their tourists on our resorts.
Thats the trade we currently have, importing fuel and exporting warm beaches.
>>73986261
>it's not a charity project
No, in return we expect you to adopt our Western values and take in refugees.
It's basically bribe money to destroy your culture.
>>73986569
When the big goys from the EU say we obey. It's not like we're like this only because we're in the EU. Of course the economically dominant countries will find means to force their way.
>>73986644
Here's the specific part where the EU bought mountains of food just to drive up prices:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hmkGcbTKE0
>>73982513
cucks.
>>73987060
pretty much
>>73986029
>the prices doubled so we can get 100 mil
thank you eu
you are my best friend
you're the peacekeeper
you're a legend
>>73986639
we're getting the most because we're much bigger than other new members, we're not in the lead percentage-wise
>>73969494
The EU needs to stop protecting every failed industry. Let failed companies collapse and allow strong businesses to take their place. Fuck the EU.
>>73987419
>Let failed companies collapse and allow strong businesses to take their place
whose companies might that be?
>>73987419
Give even more power to the large corporations? Don't cry about Jews then.
>>73987872
At least you can choose you who conduct business with, at this point, the EU is pretty much free to act as it sees fit with its citizens having no say unless they sit down to eat with a senior council member.
>>73983616
>meme "currency"
>>73987872
Large companies are protected by government (bailouts, subsidies), it's not possible for huge megacorps to exist in a free market.
>>73986815
>No, in return we expect you to adopt our Western values and take in refugees.
Isn't working.
>>73983858
>tfw Europe ruined our fishing and sugar industries, and had a really good go at ruining our cattle industry
and severely drove up imports of all three to boot.
Europe isn't about protectionism of national markets, it's about protectionism against them. It's increasing our imports, while blocking extra-european imports, destroying our industries that rely on cheap imports to thrive.
>>73969494
It will force them to produce things that are actually in demand.
>>73986029
Well we did sell them to the commies for peace so the least we can do is help them re-build and get up to speed.
