Why doesn't /pol/ like Socialism? The majority here seems to oppose it. I don't know much about these topics to begin with but i'm trying to learn.
If some knowledgeable individual could chime in.
I make x, you make xxxxx.
Justify me deserving any of your xs.
>>73693741
if x is not enough to live comfortably and xxxxx is enough for you to afford consumerist frivolties, you ought to, from a humanistic, utilitarian perspective, give him an x.
Ask Greece.
>>73693741
Because in advanced societies people need to provide services for one another. If anyone doesn't like it then they can feel free to fuck off into the wilderness and hunt for their food.
>>73693912
in reality it's more like
>x
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Because stealing is wrong.
>>73693912
>infinite comfort wells
>>73693912
Give a man a fish and he has food for one day, learn the man to fish
It's the first one goddammit!
>>73693912
That doesn't mean the government should forcefully take his x away. Sure he might be selfish but who knows what he went through to get the x's
>>73693088
Why? I tell you why:
I work 6 days a week, 8-12 hour shifts.
You work 3 days a week, 4-8 hour shifts.
>let's share
You can fuck right off.
bcause fuck you, I wont make anything at all, youd better pay for me to live though or ill be upset
>>73693088 (Checked)
Most of us here are Americans. Socialism does not appeal to Americans because we all consider ourselves temporarily embarrassed millionaires. As such, we want things to be favorable for us when we get our slice of the pie...someday
>>73693088
"I'm going to get my universal basic income anyways, so I'm not going to do a good job at work. Matter of fact why even go to work lol, fuck that I'll still get my redistribution paycheck." X 300,000,000
>A few years later
"Why isnt there any free money coming in to my bank account anymore? My liberal professor said that it was going to work this time wtf"
>>73693961
>implying
If there is demand for your currency no one is going to deny you service unless they can afford it.
Also
>the current year
Fuck off
Because socialists sometimes get out of hand and become "too utopian" for real practice.
>>73693088
Socialism works much better in countries like yours Bjorn with a small, homogeneous population than our Multicultural paradises of 10s of millions or more.
>>73694088
yes, I agree here. Socialism should in theory be voluntary. Unfortunately humans are selfish and slow to help others.
>>73694289
You're a big guy
Bernie shills all over here.
In reality it's more like:
Poor person has x.
Rich person has xxxxxxxx
Government comes in and forcefully takes xxxxxxxx
Poor person now has xx
Rich person has xx
Government has ???
Rich person says fuck this I'll just be like poor person for a hand out.
SOON WHOLE WORLD IMPLODES IVAN
>>73694324
what does this even mean?
>>73694289
so how much have you donated lately?
>>73693912
Define "comfort"
Ask a guy who comes from a war torn country, it would be a safe haven and some food.
Ask a guy born from in a developed world, and it's 3 meals a day, a furnished private apartment, internet access, free car, and several annual trips overseas.
So what happens when your provisions aren't "comfortable" enough for an ever growing and demanding populace who demands free shit?
>>73694402
nothing.
I never said socialism works, I was just trying to justify it.
Anyone who supports socialism is a lazy fuck and just wants to ride on other peoples' hard work.
Anyone who works their ass off for a living would never agree with wealth redistribution unless they make minimum wage.
>>73694425
"comfort" is subjective, and as much as it pains me to say this, the government would decide.
>>73694425
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!1!!1!! :|!!!!!
>>73693088
Stormtards and other leftists here love socialism because they're either (ironically) motivated by a very base self interest as they calculate that they'll get more shit in a socialist system than they would if they had to freely compete with other adults, or that they're just economically retarded and have no concept whatsoever of opportunity cost, the economic calculation problem and how prices actually work and what they mean, or how the economy is not some "fixed pie".
Those who advocate free markets are basically the inverse of the above, who either support it because they calculate that they'll make more in free competition with adults, or that they understand economics and realize how shitty socialism actually is.
If you want to learn about economics, the number one introductory lesson is Bastiat's (rather short) work "That Which Is Seen And That Which Is Not Seen".
Here it is for free:
http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html
Only manchilds and closet gold diggers want socialism.
>>73694289
> Unfortunately humans are selfish and slow to help others
Unfortunately humans are cunning, masters of deception yet gullible in masses. Which is why promises of a utopian Socialist state is more likely to end up becoming Stalin's empire, Pol Pot's killing grounds, and Kim's magical hermit kingdom than what deluded faggots who read fairy tale "academic" books think it would.
>>73694480
>knows it doesn't work
>tries to justify it
Wew lad
>>73693088
>Why doesn't /pol/ like Socialism?
You live in a more advanced society, with a higher GDP per capita than Americans etc.
Americans are less educated, less organized and so forth and thus their people are not as productive as Norwegians under its soc-dem system are.
>>73693088
>>73693088
Fixed
>>73694558
And governments have done exactly that. Including yours.
Yet, here we are, with you advocating "Socialism" because the current provisions aren't "good enough" by your standards. Go back 100 years ago, and what you are receiving is a godsend.
>>73693088
I live in a communist/socialist country and it's pretty awful when you try to earn money. It's great if you just want to sit around, do nothing and want to listen to people who get mugged by the state to pay for your shit.
Seriously, they can't even opt out of this "charity" without getting jailed or having their income taken away
>>73694594
Thread
You should get what you give.
Effort = outcome
If you don't wanna work that's fine, you can starve. I'm gonna work hard and eat my burgers.
>>73693088
Let's take record industry for an example since socialists often bitch about artists not making "their full worth".
>artists sign with a big label
>sign over the rights to their music in exchange decent money
>in return they get to use some of the huge ad budget these labels have
>if they're good they will continue this and become millionaires
>in the long run the rights of their music doesn't really matter since it'll become public domain anyway(ie. their grandchildren won't get to make monies off their music)
These big artists often become very popular and rich. Granted, there's only few at a time who make it big, but pop is an easily saturated field of music - most people just listen to radio hits anyway
But their labor is being EXPLOITED! So of course they could start their own label to release their stuff. Many indie labels do.
>release shit on your own label
>you get all the proceeds of your work
>however you don't get the exposure you would if you worked for a big label with giant advertising monies
>music becomes public domain anyway eventually
Even big indie artists usually make far less than medium tier big label artists. But that's okay, because indie artists usually care more about artistic freedom than the big bucks anyway.
And then you have the socialist alternative
>all the artists organize as a group and receive the same funding
>who gets to even be one of these collectively funded artists and have their music released won't be decided by market forces but by whoever's in charge of the organization(ie. pencil pushing bureaucrats)
>as a result, while the artists may all make a decent sum of money, the music won't be what the public wants, as their opinion doesn't matter without market forces
Soviet Union didn't really have any good pop music, and rock among other styles were considered "counter-revolutionary". Admittedly, they had beautiful march music, but march music isn't what most people actually want to listen day in and day out.
>>73695051
I believe that's called capitalism
Socialism a literal shit, but it's easy to see why so many people crave it.
The calls to socialistic views in America are not unjust, and anybody who thinks everything is fine on this side of the pond fell for the Jewish mind control tricks. Hence why I never really had any problem with Bernie until he started hinting at tax hikes in the lower brackets of wealth.
This "Oh they earned it, and you're gonna hurt the free market if you try to return some of this wealth to the people!" meme needs to stop. I'm a big proponent of the free market. But there are two major problems breaking down the market. 1) Money that is concentrated at the top is not flowing back into the economy. This kills the free market more than almost any restrictions on it can. And 2) Monopolization, which causes the death of competition in the economy. (Cable companies here in America, for example.)
I think true, actual socialism on a whole is simply not plausible. There is always going to be a group of people who get carried, and a group of people who get everything taken away.
Overall, makes me wonder how long we are gonna pussyfoot around the issue. It's never going to get better.
>>73695051
the disconnect is that some people can work hard, yet see very little returns. These people aren't as capable and from an evolutionary standpoint shouldnt reproduce or recieve money.
These same people are upset that their "hard work" is not paying off, hence they vote for socialism.
>>73693088
forced redistribution of wealth is theft, no ifs, no buts
immoral pretending to be moral
>>73694850
Well, then hard to break it to you, but it's hard to prove that it will ever work.
For socialism to flourish, it would require every member of society to be paragons of human virtues (i.e. hardworking. honest, earnest, altruistic, selfless). Any member who doesn't behave in such a way (i.e. conniving, selfish etc) will just destroy said society as these individuals will easily prey on others.
For Capitalism to flourish, you only need humans in their natural form; Greed, ambition and selfishness propels things forward. Fear ensures that the lazy have to keep up or get left starving. And stupidity, hedonism, hubris and shortsightedness usually means that most fortunes will be lost in a couple generations and redistributed back into the system.
>>73695074
Oh, and copyright is of course analogous to patents in this post. Many other industries are quite similar to my example.
>>73695311
precisely.
>>73693088
Ever read a history book? Command economies don't work.
>>73695311
Pretty accurate. As much as I hate to see a fellow man struggle to get by I do like the idea of working for your living rather than work a little bit and get some from others to make ends meet. It's hard to get a system to work because people are just so different in ideas and work ethics
