I am considering becoming Catholic.
But as I study, I realize that the Second Vatican Council is leading the Church towards a dark place. But I am not certain about some particular aspects of this.
Here is what I know
>Vatican II changed traditions
>Changed the vernacular and liturgy
>Made way for unorthodox ideas to be pushed in the Church
My question is, did the Vatican II council and its changes alter any doctrines or dogmas of the Church directly?
This is crucial for me to know.
I am reluctant to either accept or deny the authority of the Papacy.
tldr: There's a difference between saying "I disagree strongly with the Vatican II, and prefer tradtionalism" and saying "I am now schismatic and do not recognize the authority of the Papacy itself"
Help me decide.
>>73675510
>catholic
You mean heretic!
>>73675565
I'm trying to avoid being a heretic.
Which is why I'm considering these things carefully
>>73675510
Just be Orthodox instead.
>>73675681
I'm considering it to at least some extent. But once again, the Orthodox Church differs in authority, and I'm not sure I want to be a schismatic. I want to be certain that I am following the correct authority.
>did the Vatican II council and its changes alter any doctrines or dogmas of the Church directly?
no, it fucking didn't. it changed the aesthetic, but not the doctrine.
>>73675595
Then become protestant/orthodox!
Also I upload your thread on there.
8ch dot net / christian / res / 272411 dot html
What ever you do OP, don't become some protestant meme denomination.
As far as Vatican II is concerned no doctrines or dogmas were changed. If you want traditionalism go to a SSPX church, they are traditionalists and are kind of on good terms with the Pope.
go for sedevacantism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism
>>73675837
I must consider carefully the doctrines, the teachings, and the history before I can just say "Oh I'll become this"
It requires a certain level of consideration, at least for me.
I hear many claims that doctrines/dogmas have been changed in the Catholic Church.
>>73675973
not these guys again
>>73675973
I am very reluctant to do that, but I'm considering it.
Many things I've seen regarding Vatican II, as well as the Third Secret of Fatima seem to indicate heresy or even apostasy within the Church.
But I'm just not sure.
>>73675966
I acknowledge too many non-canonical books to become a Protestant in that way ever again.
I have been considering SSPX.
>>73675681
google war against being
>>73676024
Here this might help you.
http://christianityinview.com/comparison.html
>>73675729
Make sure you choose the right path brother and that right path is Catholicism only.
Don't turn to the devils that the protestants are.
If you're worried about Francis, don't mind him. They chose him to warm up the image because you know yourself how the western world works nowadays.
If you wouldn't say something in public you can't expect the Pope to do the same.
Once this is gone the Vatican will choose more radical pope.
God bless
>>73676424
>.
>If you're worried about Francis, don't mind him. They chose him to warm up the image because you know yourself how the western world works nowadays.
>If you wouldn't say something in public you can't expect the Pope to do the same.
>Once this is gone the Vatican will choose more radical pope.
>God bless
>Following a pope who bows to the societal taboo's rather than remaining steadfast in traditional catholic beliefs
Get out of my church you heretic
>>73676424
I'm far more worried about the traditional changes made to the church, the change in mass.
I don't know which sacraments were changed, or if doctrine was changed.
But I am definitely leaning towards Catholicism.
I believe that in essence, the Church of Christ is infallible.
I want to acknowledge the authority of the Vatican. I am just not sure if I can. I am not sure if they are in apostasy. I must discover the truth.
See, this thread illustrate the problem--- for about 3 days, this place was full of every asshole for "le reddit_le-donald."
They drove all the regular people away, and now (gratefully) they are all gone, but so are all the usual ppl. All we have left are hard-on threads.
>>73675510
Read Memory and identity by JPII. He is a Vatican father, essentially pushing for nationalism
Read "the world as it could be" by Thomas Williams. It's red pulled Catholic social teaching from a Vatican professor/married priest
Read the actually Vii docs. If you can't understand them, talk to a priest who does both Latin and English masses (extraordinary and ordinary forms) to explain it. If you need to go full traditionalist, see the FSSP
t. theology minor
>>73676697
RARE
A
R
E
>>73676024
You just received two responses on the other thread.
>>73676915
Yes I am posting there too now.
Thank you for doing that.
>>73676697
Nice flag
>>73675510
I thought about this for about a year, went to mass, prayed the rosary, talked to some priests, however I couldnt believe in it. It's obvious to me that catholicism is false. It is whatever the priests say it is, they make up the religion as they go along. If they want to embrace liberal modernism then thats catholicism now. There's too many contradictions. At one point they say a certain proposition is the truth, then later they say now its not. Something is either true or it isnt. It isn't subject to change based on what some guys said. It was never true. Just a bunch of superstitions determined by the priests.
There is little to gain from joining the church now.
>>73677088
Nor does it make sense to become a traditional catholic, or sedevacantist. It's illogical, you might as well just become a protestant.
Or just accept christianity is untrue.
>>73677088
I went to a Traditional Catholic Church, my friends encouraged me to do this.
It felt beautiful to me, the mass was said in latin. There was great respect for God it seemed.
But when I went back to the mainstream Church it all seemed so...casual.
That's what bothers me. It feels like the "Deus Vult" and zealous fervor has been taken out of the current Catholic Church.
It turned me off as well.
But I'm not sure that's good grounds for me to reject the Papacy.
There are many things that indicate that the Novus Ordo Churches are filled with apostasy, but I have to confirm that for myself.
I have to be certain of the justification for rejecting the Papacy.
If not, I will humbly accept its authority.
>>73675510
Do you have a thing for prepubescent boys?
Catholic Church has always been the church of the Antichrist.
Just read the Bible
>>73677391
Which Bible should I read? The one that rejects Apocrypha because Jewish scholars say you should?
Why not just follow Jesus's teaching and do your own research about the meanings of his words?
I don't understand what the church has to do whatsoever with it. It's all completely irrelevant as I see it as long as you study what Jesus said.
>>73675510
Here are the errors of V2 pointed out by a theologian with 2 doctorates from the papal university in Rome:
http://catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/documents.htm
I personally prefer SSPX
but bro pray god by yourself, you don't need a pedophile church to reach god. And stop insulting god by following religion that describe god like a retard who care if you eat pork or fish on friday Religion is for the ones who have no faith
>>73677546
I'm definitely leaning towards SSPX
>>73677550
I want Fellowship.
>>73675510
Won't help it, my long term girlfriend is a traditionalist Catholic and has a bastard half-caste kid.
>>73677612
watch sport, support a team. more seriously protestant is the best choice especially for amerifag. Catholic got the better lithurgy though
>>73677787
I don't agree with Protestant Theology.
>>73677612
Read the text on the link, you'll see how ridiculous V2 was
For example
>Paragraph 30: “By way of promoting active participation, the people should be encouraged to take part by means of acclamations, responses, psalmody, antiphons and songs as well as by actions, gestures and bodily attitudes.”
This is a Protestant and Pentecostal request. The priest celebrates Mass. The people assist, they do not celebrate the liturgy. Now we have hula masses, polka masses, clown masses, etc.
Or the entire document on ecumenism, for example, the Council of Carthage dogmatically says that anyone who prays with a heretic in a church is excommunicated. So I'd say a lot of people are excommunicated because V2 allowed for ecumenist ''meetings''.
That's funny. I am the complete opposite. Went from Catholic to Protestant, I just couldn't stand seeing the Church falling apart. Some churches are very liberal, some others are the complete opposite. And now the Pope is cucktier.
So I went protestant, pretty much convinced that all I need to know is written in the Bible and the real Church was already long gone. I only do my duty to spread His teachings whenever I have the opportunity.
>>73678129
I'm Orthodox, but how could you move from Catholicism to protestantism? That's not even a real religion.
>>73675510
send qt christian gf pls
>>73677278
Listen to this guy. He went through the same thing, protestant, tries catholicism but realises its contradictory and nonsensical, now is orthodox.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Qm_CDMrTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKf8Af-QN8Q
>>73678235
Because dis-illusion is something that happens when you radically change the practice of a faith. The faith changes, it shocks the faith, and people leave.
>>73678071
>http://catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/documents.htm
I'm reading it now
This is saying that the Canons of the Council of Trent must be believed as dogma.
Vatican II contradicts this?
>>73675510
>be me
>join Catholic Church in 2012
>that marked the beginning of my downfall (again)
>Life got 100× harder
killeveroneITT.jpeg
>current year
>anything but heaven's gate
>>73675837
>protestant
>>73676604
Where do you see me saying anything about bowing down to Francis?
I can see how much of a catholic you are anyway, i bet you went down to your 40 minute mass, said "Our Father" and you were gone.
Catholic is Canada is probably as much of a waste as it is in USA, LED light church and shit.
>>73675510
read about traditionalist catholicism and marcel lefebvre
>>73680242
I have, as far as I can tell he refused to go along with Vatican II but did not reject the authority of the Papacy.
>>73675510
Since Wolfshiem isn't here to post this I will do that.
He bacame a Catholic about 3 years ago and comes to /pol/ from time to time and supports people like yourself.
http://pastebin.com/u/wolfshiem
Read this, I hope this will help you.
>>73680814
Nice to see some Irish Catholics like you still exist.
>>73680655
>The Papacy and Church Authority
http://pastebin.com/Gq0Rf4TL
Wolfshiem explains this in a very nice way.
>>73675510
Catholicism is nonsensical in its belief structure, since it relies on viciously circular reasoning in how it tries to justify its dogma.
>The bible does not show a successor being elected and does not show that the second pope and his later ones were imbued with any special authority. All we know is that Christ chose to build his church on ST Peter and there is no reason to think that this authority somehow passes from person to person as the Catholic church teaches.
>So where do we get this notion of apostolic succession?
>We get it from church teaching and tradition.
>How do we know church teaching and tradition is reliable?
>Because the hierarchy said so.
>How do we know the hierarchy is reliable?
>because of apostolic succession.
>So Catholicism in using church tradition to justify apostolic succession, and using hierarchy to justify tradition, which is in turn justified by apostolic succession, is based on circular reasoning
>>73675510
>doctrines or dogmas of the Church directly?
No. You'll find some sedevacantists crying about it, but ultimately no dogma has been changed.
If you don't like the NO (novus ordo) mass and in the local language, you're always free to attend an FSSP parish where a Latin mass is said. :)
>>73675565
Yeah, the church established by Lord Jesus himself is heretical.
>>73675595
>>73675729
You could always become Eastern Orthodox, there's 23 different churches in line with Rome/Pope (aren't schismatic) that still retain their traditions.
>>73675837
>OP doesn't want to be a heretic
>your advice: become protestant
Get out of here, man.
>>73675966
>SSPX
They're good guys overall, but he could also attend a FSSP parish (same thing, in line with Rome).
Rome is working to bring the SSPX in communion with the church, so hopefully that works out!
>>73675973
Becoming a tinfoil Catholic isn't recommended.
>>73677088
>>73677215
See, the church can't change dogma or align with modernism.
Some of the practices such as
>abortion
>female priests
>homosexuality
>euthanasia
will never change. The only denominations that align with modernism to attract followers (which doesn't actually work) is protestants.
Have you tried a different parish? Some priests are just bad at their job.
>>73677278
It depends on the parish. Some priests just can't make the new mass work, it's actually quite sad sometimes.
>>73677391
t. evangelical pastor that formed a church in a former Dunkin' Donuts
>>73677542
Lord Jesus established the Eucharist and priesthood here on earth for us to follow.
>>73677546
You can get the same thing with FSSP.
>>73678129
Protestantism is a lot more liberal than the Catholic church. They'll do anything for followers.
>>73679012
What happened, anon?
>>73680876
There's actually quite a few of them here. Read some of the thing by Wolfhiem, he's a good guy. Went from militant atheist to Catholic a few years ago.
>>73681458
Forever and always illogical and dogmatic.
>>73681191
>Apostolic succession doesn't exist
That's not true, Apostolic succession is Biblical.
>Acts 1:23-26
"And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed and said, "You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles"
>>73675510
Would you?
>>73681566
I skimmed Wolfhiems pastebin.
I like most of what he says. I disagree with some of his take on Revelations, but that's not so important.
>>73681724
Only after marriage.
>>73681632
No one ever said "it doesn't exist", it's just *viciously* circular reasoning. Acts, Romans, I/II Timothy etc are all books of tradition without a single utterance from the mouth of God amongst them. It's exactly the problem - men making traditions of men and trying to justify them as carrying the weight of the spoken Word of God. It's utterly abhorrent.
>>73681803
> Acts, Romans, I/II Timothy etc are all books of tradition without a single utterance from the mouth of God amongst them.
You're the sort of person that would have had the book of Jude and James removed.
Of course the Bible is not the word of God.
JESUS is the word of God. The Word became flesh.
It is a dark time for us Catholics but we will survive the Tyrant and once again our Pro Aris et Focis motto will rise
>>73682033
I wouldn't remove a thing. The only thing I want - and it's what *everyone* should want in order to be intellectually honest and genuine in their beliefs - is to critically analyze things in context. Men's words =/= God's Word, which is why *ALL* Catholic dogma is absurd. Men's words mean *nothing*.
>>73681458
>You could always become Eastern Orthodox, there's 23 different churches in line with Rome/Pope (aren't schismatic) that still retain their traditions.
Oh wow, I didn't realize this. I might have to consider that.
>No. You'll find some sedevacantists crying about it, but ultimately no dogma has been changed.
Well I agree with the sedevacantists that the tradition should have been maintained, and not changed for the sake of being hipster and rad.
But unless it directly contradicts the basic doctrines and dogma. I can live with it, begrudgingly.
>>73681803
>Acts, Romans, I/II Timothy etc are all books of tradition without a single utterance from the mouth of God amongst them. It's exactly the problem - men making traditions of men and trying to justify them as carrying the weight of the spoken Word of God. It's utterly abhorrent.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
>So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
>>73682331
Men telling other men to listen to them is supposed to impress me or convince me to take their word as law? Are you joking?
>>73682286
>Oh wow, I didn't realize this. I might have to consider that.
Definitely. They are self-governing (have their own patriarch), but essentially Catholic. Just last week I attended mass at a Maronite church (Lebanese) because a relic was there.
pic related
>Well I agree with the sedevacantists that the tradition should have been maintained
I can see where you're coming from, as I'm a bit of a traditionalist myself, but like I said earlier you could always attend a FSSP parish (Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter) where they maintain the Latin mass.
>>73682472
These are not just the words of any mere men.
These are the words of the Apostles of Jesus Christ.
You don't think they have merit?
Jesus said that he would use Peter to build his Church, and Peter built a Church, and assigned Bishops to Antioch and Alexandria.
This in itself shows that there was a hierarchy, and that there's no reason why there shouldn't be a hierarchy within the Church itself.
>>73682680
There's no reason to go to church or join any organises religion. Reason doesn't enter into it..
>>73675510
Just be Orthodox .
>>73682847
The reasoning is Fellowship.
>>73682680
The apostles were worthless sinners just like the rest of us. They were instrumental sinners, surely, but so are multitudes of other people.
Refer back to >>73681191 - that's viciously circular reasoning. It's illogical. It makes no sense and goes against the very laws of reason and truth that God gave us the ability to conceive.
>>73682908
I think you're the one in viciously circular reasoning at this point.
>>73675510
Catholicism literally means globalism, it may be global traditionalism, but in the end it is the enemy of free nations
>>73683085
You see, this is why I won't even rule out the possibility of Sedevanctism.
I know what you just said has truth to it. That the enemies of the Catholic Church want to use it to help create a world religion.
But...I just don't know if I can rightfully deny the authority of the Papacy at this point.
>>73683037
I've pointed out specifically how Catholicism utilizes circular reasoning, and you haven't rebutted it. Which is unsurprising since you can't rebut it without spurning Catholicism itself.
If you're going to claim I'm utilizing circular reasoning and have that accusation matter at all, you need to point out where I'm doing so.
>>73682847
There is salvation via the Eucharist.
>>73682908
You're still grasping for straws after the other anon reasonably explained apostolic succession.
>>73683085
>global church
>One Holy and Apostolic Church
That's kind of the whole point, where we are all called to be brothers and sisters.
>>73675510
The Second Vatican Council was literally heresy and anyone who follows it is literally a heretic.
Heretics are automatically deleted from the Church. The Catholic Church carried on, but the most recent string of antipopes are not Catholic at all. You don't have to submit to their authority because they aren't the pope.
Church dogma can NEVER be altered; it's divinely revealed and infallible.
>>73683142
To understand the formation of the Catholic Church you need to look at it from a historical and political point of view.
It has nothing to do with theology never has. It was about power, protectiong and the continuation of the Roman empire with no romans or emperors.
>>73683273
Yes but the Catholic Church as it is now seems to be working in co-operation with organizations like the EU.
Unification under Christ is one thing.
Unification under a manipulative world order? That is another thing.
>>73683273
He relies on tradition being valid to justify apostolic succession. In turn, he can rely on that tradition only because apostolic succession makes the hierarchy that says that tradition is correct says so. Which is a vicious circular loop. There's nothing reasonable about it. Absolutely nothing.
>>73683313
Except there were no dogmatic changes following Vatican II.
>>73683372
hello JIDF
>>73683360
>Catholic Church as it is now seems to be working in co-operation with organizations like the EU
Maybe in some countries. Where I'm from, we (and a lot of our clergy) reject this influx of non-Christians into Europe.
>>73683403
hello
>>73676825
>married priest
wtf?
>>73683273
He denies that the Apostles were valid in these matters. It's going to be hard for you to reason with him on that.
The best angle you can approach him from is this
>Peter is the Rock upon which the church is built
Peter was a sinner, a man, but it was HE who would be the foundation for the Church.
and he established the hierarchy, appointing Bishops in Antioch and Alexandria.
Peter was the leader of all of them. Which proves that Apostles are valid, and can therefore appoint valid successors to leaders of the Church.
>>73682879
Fellowship with what? And to what end?>>73683273
>There is salvation via the Eucharist.
Reason doesn't enter into salvation.
>>73683552
Other believers.
Are you Christian?
>>73683526
I think some Eastern Catholic rites let priests marry
>>73683496
Well, I think maybe I'm more observant of the globalist tendencies of the vatican than you are then.
>>73683360
Actually, I'll break it down to you like this, anon. Humans were made to be imperfect. Who is the church composed of? Humans. You'll get a lot of varying opinions from diocese to diocese and even parish to parish. Find the one that suits you best, I think it's most important that to believe and follow the message of Lord Jesus and to partake in his Eucharist. Personally, I don't attend a NO (English mass) parish, but a traditional Latin (FSSP) one.
>>73682033
>Of course the Bible is not the word of God.
>JESUS is the word of God. The Word became flesh.
Yep, Catholicism's for you bud.
>>73683655
Here's another question I have to ask.
Have the sacraments been changed?
>>73683526
>>73683609
They do. Also if an Anglican priest converts, he can stay married.
>>73683651
I don't deny there's a hint of globalism there, but what am I to do? Deny the church for that? I've met quite a bit of African or Eastern Catholics/Christians and overall they're not too bad.
>>73683606
I'm from a catholic family, but I wasn't Baptised and I was not raised or educated religiously beyond my Catholic elementary school.. There also isn't really a fellowship of Catholics where I grew up. Small villages tend to be fellowships in themselves due to going to the same school (regardless of orientation) and football club etc.
>>73678129
>And now the Pope is cucktier.
Read the bible.
>>73683799
No, I wouldn't deny the Church for that.
I'm just suspicious.
I think it's especially suspicious that the Third Secret of Fatima was supposed to be revealed in 1960, this was the wish of Holy Mary herself, and it was not revealed, but instead the Vatican II council arose.
>>73683542
Peter "being the rock" a line of people taking after him does not make. In fact, Peter being the rock could *incredibly* reasonably be taken as a prophecy of responsibility and future success in spreading the Gospel on Peter's part, and have nothing *whatsoever* to do with authority.
You simply *brutely* insist that that vague line meant Peter's word was law, and that whoever it was that came up with the idea that some arbitrarily chosen (by men) other person would be treated as if their words *also* counted as law after Peter. You'll just dogmatically insist it was God who instantiated that practice though. You'll just keep saying it with nothing to back it up but your worthless words and faith in other men's worthless words.
You'd have been one of those men who would insist the world was flat because other people told you so 'til your dying breath without ever having any other reason to believe so.
>>73683831
But do you believe.
>>73682472
>men telling other men to listen to them
>a bad thing
Damn son I bet you havent learned anything throughout your life or just constantly try to reinvent the wheel.
If someone tells me not to use public method because information could leak and use private them I will do that...
You learn from people and improve on their thoughts, being what you are is completely stupid.
>>73675510
>I am considering becoming Catholic.
Then you're not very intelligent.
>>73682847
>late night protty and athi shitpost
>even prat is here
It feels weird being here again. I just need a kike on a stick post and I'll be right at home. Let's get started.
>>73675510
Vatican II second changed much of the language and practices, but did not change the dogma. The changes in practices (like the greater ecumenism), while not fitting with previous actions, is still not technically heretical. If your concerns about Catholism is at its heart dogmatic, V2 should not affect it. Consider, for example, how the Tridentine mass being banned was nothing more than a modernist ploy by some bishops and it's being protected multiple times. The traditions can be maintained as much as one wants.
Do not, however, believe the changes were harmless. In fact, they are directly to blame for the greater openness the modernist currently act, because that's exactly what the V2 did: by declaring certain things to not be theological but rather traditional or organizational, the modernist are now able to claim their specific programs and interpretation fall within the dogma of the church. They are technically right. The abrogation of V2 is a responsability of all catholics to stop the modernist before they try to do actual damage to catholic dogma.
>>73683273
Word of advice, look him up the archives. Anything he might be arguing has been responded to many times, quite a few by me, and quite a few times just me linking to the responses in the archive I and others have made. Remember Robispierre? Deal with him the same way, because otherwise you'll be here forever.
>>73683142
Spreading catholic believe is an article of faith and it has nothing to do with an interconnection of global economic systems. In fact, the economic and political philosophy advocated by the church is one based upon keeping economic and social units small and spread out.
>>73683869
I never said Peters word was law.
I just said he would be the one to start and lead the Church according to Jesus.
Which is what he did.
It wasn't simply a matter of spreading Gospel.
He actually did establish the Church itself, in Antioch, in Alexandria, and in Rome.
>>73683791
>Have the sacraments been changed?
No, but they are now said in vernacular languages instead of Latin.
>>73683905
I take every person's words with a grain of salt, but I trust people in most inconsequential matters. My God is not an inconsequential matter, like tending to believe my plumber knows what he's doing ultimately is.
>>73683909
Whoa nigga you just went overboard retard.
Just don't post here no more, return to wherever you came from.
>>73682033
Or if you want to reconsider, perhaps look up the difference between the word 'Λόγος' and the word 'ῥῆμα.' John 1 says that Jesus is the Λόγος, that is, the Word by which God created the universe. However, the Greek word for scripture is ῥῆμα.
Catholicism is for the illiterate, which is why it died with the invention of movable type.
>>73683892
No. I was never taught to, and I never developed faith on my own..
>>73678129
>>73683978
He was instrumental in spreading the Gospel. Why should I believe Christ meant something more than that when He said Peter would "be the rock"?
>>73684020
How is that supposed to in any way indicate that the Books of Jude, James, or the Maccabees for that matter are invalid?
>>73683869
Fun aside: all flat-earthers organizations were some kind of protestant group.
>>73684072
And to build something on a rock means to build it on a foundation.
Peter is the Founder, the first leader.
>>73684020
>Catholicism is for the illiterate
ebin, simply ebin
>>73684127
That's hilarious because it's what numerous Popes stated. Copernicus literally wrote his thesis on the subject *TO* to Pope at the time to try and sway him to the heliocentric position.
>>73684174
Why is the first stone the leader of the other stones? I don't think of the first brick I laid down in building my house as being the leader of bricks. It's a brick. Mundane as any other.
>>73683952
>I just need a kike on a stick post and I'll be right at home. Let's get started.
Fucking based.
>>73683952
I think I tend to agree with you.
>Spreading catholic believe is an article of faith and it has nothing to do with an interconnection of global economic systems. In fact, the economic and political philosophy advocated by the church is one based upon keeping economic and social units small and spread out.
Most of my concern is that the recent Popes seem more likely to say things like "The Jews didn't kill Jesus" or imply that Muslims are saved even though they deny that Jesus died for our sins.
>>73684099
It doesn't. If you click on my ID newfag you can see that I've never made that argument.
>>73684174
I will refer you to here >>73683952. Seriously, search for any combination you deem useful and all questions he ponders have been answered, dissected, rephrase, debated, and ignored the very next thread. Search what his asking, link him to the appropriate thread, and then let him fight with that thread in question.
>>73684304
Are you that fellow who was asking about getting baptize a few months ago?
>>73684367
No, I've been Catholic my entire life. :)
OP, find out where you can attend Latin mass. It is in Latin, and you will understand little at the beginning but then you will get it after a while.
>>73684367
So there's nothing circular in believing in apostolic succession because tradition validates it, and believing that the tradition is valid because the hierarchy affirms it, and believing the hierarchy is reliable because apostolic succession empowers them with authority?
*REALLY*?
>>73684363
>It doesn't
Well, that clears up everything then.
>>73684367
In your opinion, what would it take to qualify the Vatican as taken over by Apostates?
>>73684321
Word of advice: distrust the media. I have yet to find a single claim of heresy utter by the pope which didn't turn out to be bull. The man isn't ideal and is a modernist, but he still hasn't taken us too far into that hole, for what it's worth.
>>73684218
See what I mean, people? He literally knows so little he doesn't even know what was the actual thing copernicus was discussing with the pope about.
>>73684462
Ah, good. I generally don't wake up early enough to catch prottie-athi hour, so it might be months between posts in these kinds of threads.
>>73675510
I was a Catholic but now I'm just Christian because the Catholic Church has become tainted and corrupted
>>73684596
That's hilarious, since I've literally read "On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Bodies" in its entirety, and I *HIGHLY DOUBT* you have.
>>73684537
chcialbym pojsc na msze po polsku
>>73684596
I agree with you, I saw the media say that the Pope said things about homosexuals that he didn't for example.
You're right on that account for sure.
I think it's cute how you guys have imaginary friends. I used to have imaginary friends when I was a child. I think it's great that you're able to keep on pretending well into adulthood, good for you!
>>73684876
For all you know, you're a brain in a vat and everything you think you experience is imaginary. Sucks to be you.
daily reminder
2016 26–31 July catholic world youth day KRAKOW
>>73684682
Why are you using all these asterisks to bold your words? I hope you realize this is 4chan and not reddit.
>>73684595
An actual dogmatic change. Also, heretic is the word you are looking for. Granted, we don't need a dogmatic change for a lot of damage to be done, but until the dogma if broken, we are technically ok. Which is why, while I understand sedevancantist, I cannot support their claim. They have done many things which go against the tradition, sure, and their new organizational changes are terrible, but none classify as heresy just yet.
>>73684682
I am sure you have, that's why you seem unaware the geocentric model doesn't involve a flat earth.
>>73684941
Because I like words to be emphasized because context and tone convey meaning in language.
Pretty fucking basic.
>religious shopping thread
>american flag
Not surpsied, you guys push consumerist capitalism to everything, including the religion.
you "shop" for a denomination as if its another product for you to buy.
Fucking hell
>>73684957
Would you agree that we are headed towards that?
I feel that we are.
It seems like something is going to give.
>>73684704
to juz nie ma polskich parafii w ameryce?
>>73685008
I think it's good that these anons search for the truth, the Catholic Church. It appears that the OP has found it. :)
>>73684957
Yeah, that's a mistake in topics - I meant the geocentric model. Swap any instance of "flat earth" to that in the thread. They had reason to believe the earth was round long before Copernicus, but the Catholic church insisted on a geocentric dogma for a long time despite its abject falsity.
Why hasn't Jesus come back? Wouldn't the Roman destruction of Jerusalem have been the obvious time? He did tell his disciples it would happen in their lifetimes, right?
I mean 66 AD seems like it would have been the beginning of the end.
>>73685129
"Thief in the night". When He comes He comes. Trying to predict or prepare for it are pointless - just do what God commands and you'll be solid.
>>73685062
>Google translate
There is, Chicago has polish masses and NYC. There's a Polish priest in Austin as well, my polish bud told me, he lives in Austin.
>>73685129
Jesus said he would not return until certain things happened.
The Anti-Christ must first appear, and solve the worlds problems during a time of great turmoil where it seems like there is no hope.
He will come "save" humanity, and unite the world with a false religion, a world economy and world government.
This is why Christians are against Globalism.
>>73681191
So who decided what constitutes Scripture then?
>>73685062
mieszkam ~200 km od najblizszej polskiej parafii
>>73685221
Yeah, but I live in the deep south (Georgia). There isn't many Catholics, let alone Polish Catholics.
>>73685262
Great question. Could be a pink space elephant. Could be Demonbane. Could be other men. Could be God. Or anything else in any combination. My operating assumption is part men and part God.
>>73675510
>Catholicism
>>73685022
What I feel is irrelevant. I have a duty to my faith and my believes, and I will continue to have them until I die. It wouldn't be the first time heresy has managed to penetrate into the church, but the dogmas has continued unscathed. Faith, my friend. We must struggle, organize, and encourage priest willing to fight modernism, but your main duty is keeping the faith.
>>73685106
Untrue, the acceptance of it was essentially immediate after the many mistakes and failures of the Copernican-Galilean description were dealt with, with the pope having request a document speaking of the likely change until Galileo, against the request from his friend, published his work before the pope wrote it's letter. For better or for worse, scientific knowledge is not taken as fact by the church until the issues of said theories have been solved. Also, third paragraph, second chapter. What does it say? Yes, it's a trick question.
>>73682680
Paul
A guy who never met jesus, yet claimed to see jesus along the road then invented his own syncreticism of greek mystery religion and jewish messianism.
>>73685256
Whoa so we're on the way way to see God's wrath. The world is decaying.
Does Islam sound like the false religion that could be used by the antichrist?
I mean the constant killings, terrorism etc in the name of God sounds like something antichrist would do.
Is Islam the invention of the antichrist?
Don't hate me if I'm wrong, it seems kind of logical to me.
>>73685397
I really like your posts. How's the faith doing down there? I see quite a bit of Central/South American Catholics here.
>>73675510
Heretics
>>73685397
They held geocentric before that. Copernicus was quite literally afraid of making his work public because of the vitriolic dogmatism others had faced in trying to propose the earth might not be the center of the universe before him.
How quickly they shifted gears is irrelevant to the fact that they held something to be *TRUE* - that the earth was the center of the universe - that was *COMPLETELY FALSE* before doing so.
>>73685189
>>73685256
It just doesn't seem legit. The event that matched the description of the apocalypse almost perfectly, within the lifetimes of the disciples, has come and gone and no one's heard a peep since. I have a lot of respect for religion and people's religious beliefs, but sometimes I wonder how long people are going to be waiting for. The same with the Jews.
It feels like everything came to a sudden halt. There was the Torah, the Laws, the Prophets, things started slowing down, then the Roman control over Judea, all the claimed Messiahs (Jesus being one of them), the perfect apocalyptic atmosphere, then the destruction of Jerusalem, then fucking nothing for two thousand years.
>>73685407
(you)
>>73685412
I don't think you're entirely wrong.
Strangely enough, the Messiah of Islam(called the Mahdi, look it up) is pretty much a word-for-word description of the Biblical Anti-Christ.
However, the Mahdi is not the Qu'ran.
At the same time...it is my personal opinion that in the end there will be a world religion that says "Oh, all the religions are correct", to enhance the globalist agenda.
>>73685397
I think you're right.
I will most likely become Catholic then, and I will keep the faith until dogma is compromised.
Have you heard the prophecy of St Malachi?
>>73685262
In the case of protestant cucks it's whatever fits their agenda.
>>73685539
I guess you can count Islam as a continuation of the story, though. I wonder if another "sequel" religion will follow that?
>>73685539
No no no, that's the same as claiming that Nero is the Anti-Christ and that we're living in the millenial Kingdom right now.
You might as well just join the Jehovahs witnesses if you believe that.
>>73685634
>>73685539
t.Ahmed
>>73685539
Anything can be construed to match fucking Revelations. It's a bundle of ambiguity and hyperbole. It's the book in the Bible I care the very least about because it has absolutely no impact on how I'm supposed to conduct myself.
>>73685781
>ja klaus we wuz pagans n shit
>>73685488
All right? The church has not taken its social role for a long while, but churches are still mostly full and people try to follow the teachings, even if they aren't the most devout. We are in serious need of more charismatic priest and a papally coordinate message (something which, interestingly, V2 made more difficult). As with all nations, and the USA and European degeneracy influence is palpable, but it's still mostly traditional and catholic.
>>73685523
Everyone held it to be true, and not as an article of faith, so I don't see your point. The church had, and it still sometimes tries to keep, the job as the guardians of truth about God and his creation. Preventing an unproven theory with little physical evidence is exactly part of that job.
My question about what's in the chapter still stands.
>>73685570
I have. I don't give much weight to prophecies with quite a few signs they are forgeries, but that's just me.
>>73685781
I find it funny that Pagans boast about their religion and culture based around honor and being a true warrior. But nearly all paintings and art about them just shows them attacking defenseless villages.
>>73685864
>>73685917
>implying i am atheist
>>73685946
>but it's still mostly traditional and catholic.
That's great for you guys. A lot of my parish is made up of Hispanic people and they're mostly devout. Hopefully I can pick up a qt as a wife when I'm done with college.
>>73686077
Should have known, Ahmed.
>>73681458
I just want to add, the SSPX has no status as an order in the Church, but I believe their priests are properly ordained and their sacraments are entirely valid.
>>73675510
new testament women cant talk in church. catholics have nuns who talk in church
those faggots never followed the rules to begin with idk what your worried about
>>73685946
>everyone held it to be true
No, they didn't. Only presumptuous idiots did. Which - low and behold - the Catholic church was full of, just like basically any other group of humans on the face of the earth.
The geocentric model was an unproven theory. In fact, it was worse than unproven. Mercury was fucking nonsense in its orbit even by Ptolemy's observations.
>>73686077
Join the Synagogue of Satan. He commands you.
>>73675510
>worshiping an arab jew who preaches marxist ideas.
>>73686168
no, their sacraments are not valid. I think they were considered valid by the Church only temporarily, for some special occasion.
>>73686073
>honor
>true warrrior
I just think pagans are fascinated with vikings, even though it's pretty obvious they were bloodthirsty barbarians with poor hygiene.
Still conquered and travelled far and wide.
I actually haven't seen many literary sources on vikings, only old sagas, carven rocks and arabian descriptions. The sagas are pretty interesting, most detailed description of viking society I've seen even though they were recorded by christians hundreds of years later
>>73675510
Until they charter new military orders and get serious again about Western values and traditions, I'll bide my time, thank you.
>>73686073
Are actual pagans still around? Only time I've ever seen "pagans" were fedora memeing on 4chan.
>>73686309
>pretty obvious they were bloodthirsty barbarians with poor hygiene
Yes they were and nobody deny that.
>>73686073
You are still technically a warrior, to be entirely fair. That they were so easily displaced and removed from history, their myths and legends preserved by the very monks they were trying to kill, makes up for it, I guess.
>>73686094
Hope it goes well, brother.
>>73686183
Are... saying an integral part of medieval and antiquity's teaching was aimed at only idiots? The almagest is found everywhere, from gaulia, to Constantinople and beyond. It's literally the basis for western ancient astronomy and was printed up to the 1600s. It's literally the way every educated person was taught since Ptolemy, what are you on about?
>>73686385
Actual pagan communities, as in European mysticism, remains in Finland, Sweden, and Norway in the highest reaches, amongst a few hundred swedes, and the still pseudonomadic Sami.
>>73686385
Nope.
>>73686516
Thanks for all the information.
God bless.
>>73686516
It was also objectively wrong. I'm not saying it was aimed at idiots - I'm saying only idiots insist something is true despite being *incapable* of actually instantiating that something as *BEING* true. Which is exactly what ALL Catholic dogma is.
Don't
>>73686385
>Only time I've ever seen "pagans" were fedora memeing on 4chan.
those probably weren't pagans then m8. most of the modern ones are just degenerates with tattoos pretending they know what it was.
there just isnt enough known information on the pagans in europe to really bring it back in full. its not completely dead though.
>>73686516
You're based as fuck.
Do you know about the Secrets of Fatima?
>best girl
>>73675510
The Pope is a cuck
>>73686740
would attend mass with her/10
>>73686950
Matthew 16:18
>And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
>>73686659
It took roughly 50 years before anything copernicus said could be confirmed as truth, and even then his data didn't fi observations while Ptolemy model worked just fine. People didn't look at the Almagest and said "yeah, let's follow this people" and kept printing for no reason. For many years, it was still more accurate than the Copernican-Galilean model. The fact you need to twist history and scripture to fit your view is exactly why I can't take you seriously, prat. You constantly misname, misunderstand, or just out right misrepresent information which a simple search would have fixed while still trying to sound scholarly.
And my question about what is in the paragraph still stands.
>>73686593
Np. Until the next rare time I manage to be in these threads. Wolfshiem has some "interesting" ideas, but his faith is in the right place, he's good to talk to about this.
>>73686714
Yes, what of them?
>>73687089
Do you think it is weird, that the Third Secret of Fatima was not revealed in 1960, as was said to be the wish of Mary herself?
I think this is what I find to be the most suspicious thing about Vatican II, that it began on the year that the third secret was supposed to be shown to the people.
>>73686803
Shit son you brought so much into the conversation.
No wonder we call the fedora meme on your kind of people. You can't even engage in a proper discussion.
If you've nothing smart to say keep your mouth shut and leave the keyboard alone.
>>73687089
>Ptolemy model worked just fine
Except it didn't, and basically everyone knew it didn't. Venus' and Mercury's epicycles were nonsensical. And everyone in the field knew it - it was idiots who didn't know a damn thing who just kept the narrative that "nothing was wrong" floating, because how could *THEY* ever be *WRONG*?
You're a fucking dolt who's trying to cover for idiots with more idiocy. It's laughably pathetic.
I am not sure how anyone can support the papacy or sacerdotalism. It is a shame for you because in the UK there are beautiful, traditional and ornate churches which do not believe in the papacy or sacerdotalism and are Protestant. In America this does not seem to be the case.
>>73675510
Catholicism is pagan heresy.
As in the cult of the Cybele - the mother of gods.
Their dogmas is false and today they are preaching moral relativism only.
>>73687368
The only reason you're Protestant is because Henry VIII couldn't get his lady in green sleeves pregnant with a boy.
That's harsh to say, and rude. But it's true.
>>73687460
You're conflating Protestantism with the church of England.
>>73686950
he literally did, what are you so confused about?
>>73687637
Protestantism is an umbrella term.
>>73687460
Why is that relevant? The church has still developed differently, rejects the papacy, sacerdotalism, theology of the mass etc, it is based off of theological differences rather than allegiance to a king's decision. Dissent was already present, Henry simply made it the official national position. Also, there was a point when there was no "catholic/protestant" idea in Britain, only Christian, yet Catholics want to claim a monopoly on this time period when really it was much different.
I am from Northern Ireland and I have spent my whole life thinking about religious differences, I am sick of it by now but I still cannot help it.
>>73687671
There are non-church of England Protestants in the UK. Which means he could have nothing whatsoever to do with Henry VIII.
>>73687700
>I am from Northern Ireland
Even worse.
Traitors blood.
>>73687700
>>73687460
so no, that is not the only reason I am protestant nor is it even one of them. There is a plethora of justifications for it.
>>73687219
I am not a man to speculate about such matters. If the timing is to be trusted, the letter and possible revelation of its contents came after the start of it, but it's a sort of murky subject due to the nature of its transfer and broadcast.
>>73687367
>ptolemic system includes epicycles, therefore it's dumb
>Corpenicus includes epicycles in his theory, devoting a huge part of his book to them, but that's not dumb
You seriously need to stop showing people you don't know what you are talking about.
>>73687423
Well... at least this is new and original. The horus, Jupiter, baal, mithra, vishnu, etc accusations were getting stale.
>>73687671
He is right to point out you are conflating too many different things under one claim. The reasoning why the calvinist separated is different from the Anglicans, or the scientific space Jesus, or the latter saints. Not all protestants are equally heretical. They are all equally wrong, but that's not enough to paint them as being in the same heresy.
>>73687700
protestantism was just invented to sack Churches and let some people get their dick wet.
The theological differences are simply the rejection of catholic doctrine because it does not fit protestant feelings and earthly goals
>>73675510
Friendly reminder that Popefags are just jews mascaraing as Christians.
>>73687219
The apparition at Akita is supposed to be the continuation of Fatima, and is acknowledged by the Church. If you want to know what Fatima said that we didn't know about, just read the Akita message.
>>73687858
>ptolemic system includes epicycles, therefore it's dumb
Yeah, because that's *TOTALLY* not a strawman of what I'm saying, which is that *Mercury and Venus in particular* had epicycles that were *inconsistent* with the geocentric model. Fucking third-world mongrel. Grow a brain.
>>73687858
What bothers me most about it all, is that it's Protestants in general who are more likely to say that Jesus was not God, and things like this.
Some of them even have audacity to speak dis-respectfully of Mary, and obviously many of them hate the Apostle Paul.
>>73687637
The only reason you're Protestant is because northern european princes were greedy enough to want to break away from the pope and powerful enough to do that, otherwise Luther would have been another of thousands burnt heretics
>>73687978
Indeed go-cough-guys
>>73688046
The only reason you're thinking is because you exist.
What meaningless reasoning - nobody gives a shit.
>>73688064
>Imblying Cathocucks are not power thirsty jews who reformed greek rite into latin rite to gain power and separate.
>>73688155
>jews try to destroy the Church since its conception to this day without interruption
>"y-yes g-goy, w-we wuz catholic n shiet, l-leave the faith pls"
>>73688001
You are arguing the ptolemic model was somehow idiotic to follow because it contains epicycles and therefore everyone with a brain must have thought it wrong. The fact the Copernican-Galilean model has epicycles means that either your argument is flawed, or you believe anyone who believed the Copernican-Galilean model is an idiot. Which one is it?
>>73688006
Entirely true. Doesn't remove the fact protestanism is a bit more complex than just "king needs wet dick."
>>73688155
Are you speaking of the modern mass, the tridentine mass, or the couple dozen rites before that one?
>>73688398
>because it contains epicycles
SO.
FUCKING.
STRAWMAN.
Catholics have no brain.
Luther wouldn't be burned, Inquisition did that very rarely...
and yes the second Vatican Council was bad, I'm catholic and keep strong in faith, and I joined some youth movements that attend to latin mass and do other activities as well, we'd love to see most of the agreements of second Vatican council revoked. But until then, we endure.
Still I wish that Pope Francis would turn 180 degrees...: (
>>73688398
You have a point sir.
>>73688398
I am talking in generalities, merely pointing out the schism and the imperialistic design of the Catholic Church.
>>73688155
>Imblying Jesus and his disciples are not power thirsty jews who gained power and separated from the rest of the jews
>>73688479
Franciszek sam kiedys powiedzial ze przejdzie na emeryture. Miejmy nadzieje ze niedlugo.
>>73688723
oby, od urodzenia w Stanach ?;)
>>73688466
>Except it didn't, and basically everyone knew it didn't. Venus' and Mercury's epicycles were nonsensical. And everyone in the field knew it
Why yes, all those other things you talked about are here. Why did I ever point to the fact the Copernican-Galilean was flawed and need decades to be corrected so it worked as good as the Ptolemic one, and how the main flaw you described actually appears in both is beyond me. I am sure you'll describe your position in more detail and not simply keep saying strawman and failing to insulting me.
But that's just silly old me.
>>73688494
I try to with every post.
>>73688512
Sorry to say, but that's empty accusations and nonsensical buzzwording. If you have actual examples and reasoning, sure, those can be debated and discussed, but right now you are just making your point sound like tripe.
>>73689105
>Venus' and Mercury's epicycles were nonsensical
>Venus' and Mercury's epicycles were nonsensical
>Venus' and Mercury's epicycles were nonsensical
VENUS' AND MERCURY'S EPICYCLES IN PARTICULAR NOT MAKING SENSE MEANS THE MODEL UTILIZING EPICYCLES *AT ALL* WAS NONSENSE!
What *ASTOUNDING* "logic" you fucking retard.
L A M O
A
M
O
>>73689105
Why do you catholics worship the pope to the extent that even when you do the sign of the cross(I don't know the translation) you use 4 fingers to specifically symbolize the Pope.
Isn't this worshiping an idol, a man?
>>73689317
Because they're illogical dogmatic sheeple who couldn't formulate a coherent argument for why anyone should believe their word over anyone else's outside of "you just should lol xD" if their life depended on it.
>>73689087
Przyjechalem jako dziecko. :p
>>73678129
You're a disrespectful prosletyzing asshole. I can't stand people who think it's their religious duty to impose their bullshit spaghetti-monster beliefs on other "whenever I have the opportunity. Take up Buddhism or meditation instead and you'll be much less of an asshole.
>>73689397
>why anyone should believe their word over anyone else's outside of "you just should lol xD"
Isn't it a foundation of any religion, especially the revelation ones?
Agnostic here, I don't have anything against Christianity and in fact I much prefer it to other sand religions (although a sand religion it remains).
I have a (recently?) converted guy in my circle of friends at uni (he comes from south Asia I think) which whom I exchange bants about his faith from time to time. Because of this I started reading the bible. At Revelations 14.1 it pretty clearly states that literally everyone but the 144000 chosen people will start worshipping the beast and be punished for it by eternal torment.
I told him and he got me an earlier passage where the 144000 Jews were written about in the same passage as an uncountable number of other people who were supposed to be true followers of God. Nothing is said about them in the "worshipping the beast" parts later and they're not with the 144000 that are the only ones that don't worship it and stay with the lamb.
Are they ever talked about again or were they just forgotten about? If there's nothing about them, it pretty much says that only born Jews can evade eternal anguish if they're alive during the Apocalypse.
Different point:
We were talking about Israel and I took the "muh Palestine" route when he literally went into some kind of fewer state talking about how the Jews are Gods chosen people and how they're the greatest and should always get everything they want. Are all non-/pol/ Christians this cucked?
I lost a big chunk of respect I had for the religion because of these two things.
>>73689710
Yes and no. Trying to convince someone else, it can often break down to that. I actually think in most cases it does.
When it comes to someone individually coming to faith it's a different matter, since no one utilizes 2nd person persuasive reasoning in regard to themselves.
>>73675510
>But as I study, I realize that the Second Vatican Council is leading the Church towards a dark place
1. Fuck off /pol/. /pol/ is not your private blog.
2. Why don't you become Anglican? They didn't have the Second Vatican Council.
>>73687978
Friendly reminder that we Catholics don't gather up money for the Jewish settlements for Israel, unlike you disgusting heatheness protestannts.
>>73689317
We don't? What you are talking about I have literally only heard of in a movie, and there are no rules defined for it other than the ordering anywhere in the canon. So, sorry but no dice?
But I believe your actual question regards the notion of Latria, dulia, and hyperdulia, to which I can only describe in this manner: what is the most distinct action of worship? Sacrifice. You are obligated to sacrifice yourself for God and his mission. That's latria. Dulia (and hyperdulia) do not involve sacrifice or direct request, but rather respect and deference of authority, reserved for saints (and Mary, respectively). You request their help, and have no expectation they'll be able to change things under their volition, but their direct contact with God allows them to intercede in your favour with him. The pope? He gets neither of the three and is merely respected as a human authority figure through which God can use to further the revelation. No one is praying for the pope to help him, but it is suggested you pray for him so the saints keep him serving the church.
>>73689710
Yada Yada, search him in archive, Yada Yada, all answers he has already been responded to.
>>73689259
You are going to need to up your ante if you are going to try to persuade anyone you aren't shielding yourself in insults, my friend.
>>73690141
>suggesting heresy
Orthodox are only schismatic and don't have female priests.
>>73690364
You *literally and unironically* tried to say that me saying the epicycles of Mercury and Venus not making a lick of sense when it came to the geocentric model was me saying epicycles *PERIOD* didn't make sense. You're an illiterate third-world retard m8. It's okay though - your parents only had shit genes to pass to you, so there's no way you could have turned out any other way.
>>73689824
>Revelations 14:1
It never says in Chapter 14 of Revelations that only 144,000 will be saved.
But they are of the few who are meant to go and preach to the people during the last days if I recall correctly.
>If there's nothing about them, it pretty much says that only born Jews can evade eternal anguish if they're alive during the Apocalypse.
That's not what happens during the Apocalypse.
What ends up happening is this.
>Temple of Solomon is rebuilt
>Anti-Christ goes there, declares himself to be God
>This causes Civil War within Israel
>Some choose to side with Anti-Christ
>Others defy Anti-Christ
>Battle for Jerusalem happens
>Jerusalem is taken
>Jews flee
>Jesus appears from the Mount of Olives
>Defeats the army of the Anti-Christ
>Confronts the Jews about their unwillingness to accept him as their savior
>Jews fall down and cry
>They mourn for the one whom they have pierced(Zechariah 12:10
>Jesus establishes the Millenial Kingdom and brings true peace to the world
>Presides over the whole earth
Amen.
>>73689399
super że znasz nasz język :)
wiele dzieci Polaków go zapomina: (
>>73690507
... ok, let me approach this differently. What is the difference between the epicycles of the geocentric and heliocentric model? Can you see an inconsistency?
And your insults do nothing, prat. I don't understand why you insist on using them every time we meet when it always ends with you leaving in a huff because they aren't doing anything.
>>73690802
>let me approach this differently
Or we could keep pointing out how wrong you are. Which is what I'm more apt to do, since I very honestly think you're not worth taking seriously at this point.
>>73688398
>You are arguing the ptolemic model was somehow idiotic to follow because it contains epicycles and therefore everyone with a brain must have thought it wrong
>>73687858
>ptolemic system includes epicycles, therefore it's dumb
When what was said was
>>73687367
>Venus' and Mercury's epicycles were nonsensical
Enjoy being a strawmanning destitute third-worlder and illogical Cucklic for the remainder of your malaria-ridden life. God will still forgive you.
>>73691075
The first person to use petty insults is the loser of the argument.
>>73690585
Dzięki. Chciałbym kiedyś wrócić do Polski i tam trochę pomieszkać. xd
>>73691181
That's funny since it was him in >>73687089
who initially engaged in slander.
>>73690513
I see. I read that in a shitty bible some guy gave me on my way to another building, so it was probably wrongly translated.
But I found this:
13.8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
17.8
The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast
Doesn't this imply that those who are already in the book are safe to go and those who aren't are fucked?
Also, what about the Chosen People do you guys (or normal Christians) actually believe that?
>>73691189
>Google translate
You could if your cuckold president wouldn't lie about the green cards.
Anyway, some other Pole mentioned you can request "Pole Card" without giving up your us citizenship and live in Poland having all the right that the Polish citizen has if your grandpa was Polish.
Try anyway, I don't know how true is that.
>>73675510
Yes, Since 1962 all Antipopes.
>>73691631
Nah, I have both Polish + US citizenship. I moved here when I was like 6. :P
I just want to finish college before moving back for a few years. Thanks for the advice though, friend.
>>73691075
Prat, there is no difference between the two because both epicycles are formulas trying to conform an eliptical motion to circular one. The ones in the Copernican-Galilean aren't any more correct than the ones in the Ptolemic one, an in fack introduce greater discrepancies and errors, leading to the corrections I described which were required for the model to be more accurate. To claim the Copernican-Galilean epicycles were sensible by comparison is, well, wrong.
I don't understand how you expect to look more informed if this is literally a Google search away. This is an easily known fact, an easy explanation why even Islamic astronomers didn't embraced Copernicus observations until much, much later. This is easy information, an observation covered in the book you claimed to have read but clearly have not.
This is not how you win arguments, this is how you show you are wrong and are willing to insult people to not admit it. And, as always, it won't work. You can't insult me into not showing why you are wrong.
>>73691385
What exactly is the slander? I am honestly curious were you find something equating to an insult.
>>73691631
I find it kind of weird and interesting so many European countries have programs to let anyone remotely related be given citizenship, or the equivalent of it. i suppose its a demographic but still
>>73691775
I didn't know that holding US passport allowed to hold another passport.
In other words, I thought dual citizenship was not legal in USA (if you hold USA passport).
>>73691825
Well I mean you still wouldn't get it probably Out-of nowhere. All I know is that it's designed for the Poles living in Ukraine, Belarus etc. Old polish lands before Soviet Union took them. Like I said I'm not sure if it's designed for people that emigrated by their own free will. Think it's just the poles that were forced out of their country.
>>73675510
They basically just opened it up to make it more "modern" and "appealing" to Catholics. But you can still find Catholic churches with Latin Masses. And many of the old traditions are making a comeback because we like them. You should join and push for a more traditional Church with us.
