What does the govt do better than the private sector?
>>73500576
Eugenics.
>>73500576
Services that opperate better, or can only really operate, on an area basis rather than an individual basis. This includes military security, law enforcement, and the fire department.
>>73500576
Steal.
What you and I would go to jail for, they call Tuesday.
>>73500576
Run the country.
A nation-state is not a business, doesn't run like a business and will be infinitely fucked if attempted to be run like a business. See the USA, 2001-2009 under W.
Prisons
For-profit private prisons such as CCA are inherently evil because they constantly lobby Congress for ever-stiffer penalties for minor crimes. All on your tax dollar. And now they're beginning to charge inmates for their stays, because the government teet still isn't enough to feed the monster.
>>73500715
>According to the National Fire Protection Association, 69 percent of firefighters in the United States are volunteers.[9] The National Volunteer Fire Council represents the fire and emergency services on a national level, providing advocacy, information, resources, and programs to support volunteer first responders. The NVFC includes 49 state-based firefighter associations such as the Firemen's Association of the State of New York (FASNY), which provides information, education and training for the volunteer fire and emergency medical services throughout New York State.
subjugate people
Unprofitable but necessary endeavours, such as roads.
>>73501048
We've had private fire departments in the past. They didn't work out well.
>>73500957
It is a mistake to believe that private prisons are not run by the government. When the entirety of their business is funded by the government, they become another branch similar to the EPA or the FDA.
In order to have truly private prisons it would require an overhaul or even privatization of the justice system -- prison would be labor camps where the inmates pay for their own incarceration if they can't be trusted to pay off their debt to the victims out in society.
>>73500576
Do you support me getting shot?
>>73500576
>What does the govt do better than the private sector?
Everything
>>73500715
Haven't run across this argument before. Do you have anything else on it?
>>73500576
Not memeing, it's main purpose is to curtail the extremes of the free market
>>73500576
mail a letter for $.50
>>73500576
Lie.
>>73500907
I bet you get your knowledge of history from John Green
>>73501312
But we're moving in that direction. 50 years ago there were no corporate-owned prisons. Now there are many. 10 years ago prisons were not charged for their stay, now we are beginning to implement these charges.
We're 50 years from having gulags.
>>73501271
>Volunteer fire departments are providing the majority of Austria's and Germany's civil protection services, alongside other volunteer organizations like Technisches Hilfswerk, voluntary ambulance services and emergency medical or rescue services like German Red Cross or Johanniter-Unfall-Hilfe. In most rural fire departments, the staff consists only of volunteers. The members of these departments are usually on-call 24/7 and working in other professions.
>>73500576
Kill people. This is not limited to non-citizens living abroad.
>>73501271
>>According to the National Fire Protection Association, 69 percent of firefighters in the United States are volunteers.[9]
>B-but it, it didn't work well in the past!
Pathetic. Even if your assertion that it "didn't work" was correct, it has no bearing on today when most firefighters are still privately employed.
>>73501469
*prisoners charged
build roads
Enforcement. Pick your flavor.
>>73500576
Have a military.
>>73500576
unions/protection
social security
freedom
winning WW2
internet
clean air and water
The closest case we have to a government also being a business is the Dutch East India trading company, which invented Capitalism
>>73500576
Getting people killed.
>>73501496
By not working well, I mean they burned houses, looted houses, acted as extortion agents, and would let entire city blocks burn down just so a rival station didn't get the contract. You're a fucking idiot.
Do you have any knowledge of the structure of those volunteer fire departments? They're municipally owned, trained, supplied. The fact that the bulk of their workers are volunteer in nature doesn't remove the fact they are public programs. Again, you're a fucking idiot n
>>73500576
>What does the govt do better than the private sector?
But it doesn't.
They both fail because of people.
>>73501048
I was unde the impression OP ment buisinesses you pay money to.
>>73501341
Essentially, some things must operate on an area basis. If the police catch a thief, the whole neighborhood benefits. Military forces can't only defend the lives and property of individuals who choose to pay them, if they repel an invading force, everyone is defended. If they were to operate as a private buisiness they would have to control land and refuse to allow in anyone who refuses to pay them, or take some other form of punitive action. Not only does this significantly hamper competition, one of the foundations of the free market, it also essentially makes them a government anyway. In fact, this is likely how many early governments came about.
>>73500576
Private sector is best for things where the profit motive benefits the consumer IR Food, clothing ect. good quality = more people buy.
Public sector is best for basic infastructure, IE railways, healthcare, gas and electric. Also the closer a public company is to mimicing a market structure the better, like the BBC.
>>73501820
>Johanniter-Unfall-Hilfe e.V. (JUH; German for "St. John Ambulance"), commonly referred to as Die Johanniter, is a voluntary humanitarian organisation affiliated with the Brandenburg Bailiwick of the Order of St John, the German Protestant descendant of the Knights Hospitaller. The organisation was founded in 1952 in Hanover under the leadership of Rudolf Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff. One of the main reasons for its creation was the rise in injuries and deaths from road traffic accidents (hence the word "accident" in its name). JUH participates in international aid efforts together with its sister organisations in other countries as part of the Johanniter International partnership; it also works with the German Malteser Hilfsdienst, affiliated to the Catholic Sovereign Military Order of Malta. As of 2008 the organisation had 28,300 active volunteers and youth members and around 1,500,000 registered members.[1]
>>73501469
>But we're moving in that direction.
We are moving in the exact opposite direction. Only historically has the justice system been solely about protecting property rights and providing restitution to the victim.
Whether the government runs the prisons directly or they are run by "private" entities is irrelevant if increasingly more people are being locked up for nonviolent crimes with the intention shifting towards rehabilitation or paying one's "debt to society" instead of paying one's debt to the victim.
>>73501744
>not the British east india company
>>73500907
>A nation-state is not a business,
ours are
>>73502004
It was shit and inefficient. Too many Jews in the English Aristocracy again
>>73500576
Healthcare, and freeway systems. Although I'm not 100% on the freeways.
>>73501744
what about Prussia?
>>73501048
Volunteers for a government run service
Necessities such as transportation.
The government becomes pretty ineffective when it comes to supplying "wants" and not "needs".
>>73501936
I get the argument, I just hadn't heard it explained as area coverage rather than individual coverage. It's an interesting angle. I was wondering if you had any resources I could expand my knowledge on.
>>73500576
Because heavy regulation and well thought out bureaucracy.
Also equal opportunity
Diversity
And a president that is genetically african
>>73500715
>law enforcement
https://youtu.be/pKGzw8GROf0
Unfortunately not. Even in the shittiest place the private sector really shines. It's why people get body guards for their homes and family. It'd be interesting to see what the US would be like with competition between private agencies.
generally offering alternative socialized services to force private industry into fair pricing and competitive service quality
United States Parcel Service.
Even when Bush hamstringed them into funding pensions 30 years in advance to bankrupt them, they still do a better fucking job than Fedex or UPS.
>>73500576
> Physically murder people
> Coordinate disaster relief efforts (except under Faggot Bush)
> Maintain, build, regulate infrastructure (roads, airports, etc)
> Regulate industry (FDA, AMA, etc.)
> Deliver mail (the US Post Office is awesome)
> Uphold law and order
Those are off the top of my head. I'm a huge social libertarian but I do recognize government is necessary in many areas of life.
>>73502130
We've tried private roads. They don't work well. The government doesn't do healthcare well at all. We have five different federal, socialized, healthcare systems and thousands of state and local programs in the US. They all suck dick. There is no model for success in public healthcare.
>>73502339
Private security is not law enforcement, they don't go out and catch criminals.
>>73500576
anything that cant be competed on i.e railways, prisons, utilities, infrastructure
>>73500576
It maintains the circumstances that allow the private sector to operate.
Private companies have no reason to invest in the security of anything but themselves, and they sure as hell wouldn't spend money to keep the general population alive, gradually depriving themselves of both labor and consumers as ordinary people murder each other and starve to death.
>>73502450
>Deliver mail (the US Post Office is awesome
The post service has to fund itself, it's basically a government owned buisiness.
>>73500576
>government does better than the private sector
A monarchy is a private enterprise you stupid goy.
>>73502494
Pinkertons were private law enforcement. That's actually how Plessey of P v Ferguson was arrested. The rail car company hired a Pinkerton to insure he was arrested on the proper charge.
>>73502339
>bodyguards = law enforcement
Shame on you for being stupid. Stop being stupid this instant.
Corruption
>>73500576
Providing for the common defense, promoting the general welfare and securing the blessings of liberty for ourselves and prosperity.
>>73500576
Shitpost. All the shills on here give even Australian freelancers a run for their money.
>>73500576
I think, making laws.
>>73502448
>United States Parcel Service.
>Even when Bush hamstringed them into funding pensions 30 years in advance to bankrupt them, they still do a better fucking job than Fedex or UPS.
us postal service, and where the fuck do you live? here in chapel hill, nc, the usps is laughably incompetent, while fed ex and ups are pretty much reliable as anyone.
>>73500694
Bullshit. Victorian-style Social Darwinism is by far more effective than state-planned forcible eugenics. The economy is like an ecosystem. Don't feed the "wildlife" and they will sort into a natural order by productivity, and the useless ones will go extinct.
>>73500576
National defense.
National memory.
>>73502689
And there were significant issues with the Pinkertons.
>>73502858
See there's your problem, the postal service is really good unless you live in the south considering the US government hates the south.
>>73502450
I didn't get the memo on the AMA being a govt entity.
>>73503094
It might as well be, since every state legislature and the federal government suck it off at every chance.
>>73502745
>giving an example of protective services beside law enforcement used in the US
>stupid
Whatever you say friend.
>>73503043
I agree. I was just pointing out all these services lolbertatians think the private sector can handle better than the public sector has been tried and had disastrous effects. Socialists would do well to learn the converse. We have a good mix now, it comes down to details on regulations.
>>73503251
Kek give an actual example then of a private entity that works exactly like a government ran police agency.
>>73503271
I agree. I think the issue is people forgetting what free market principles were founded on. If competition is absent, there is an enormous issue.
>>73503043
>>73502494
But that's not what I'm talking about exactly. I'm talking about the government essentially contracting police work to various agencies I presume would pop up in a competitive market. They'd probably take after the security in that South Africa video
>>73500576
The US govt or Democracy or govts in general?
If the first 2 than all they do better is wasting fucking time
However a real strong government can potentially do everything better than the private sector (think 1933-38 Germany before hitler went insane)
The private sector in the long run is globalist and unpatriotic. What is needed is a strong nationalistic government not shackled by long debates BS special snowflake consideration of every 0.000001% minority's needs and lobbyists supreme courts who oppose anything because they can
>>73503271
Not everyone is a strict Ancap.
My view is that the state's role is the regulation of violence, not the regulation of voluntary exchange.
>>73503410
There is no issue unless the use of force is involved (such as with the Pinkertons)
>>73503440
Consider the old west. Dodge City, for example, was a war between two private law enforcement entities. The Lincoln County Wars with Billy the Kid were similar.
>>73503475
>democracy
No not democracy, Athenian or Westminster or National Socialism or even the Roman Republic
What you need is strong people with strong culture.
The preservation of Confuscianism (Not the values but the fact it has preserved for so long so ingrained in Chinese social culture) is what needs to be adapted.
>>73503475
>(think 1933-38 Germany before hitler went insane)
here, I'll help derail this thread with you. Hitler was focused on war from the very first day he had power, and wrote about his plans way back in 1923 in mein kampfh. if he had continued winning, he was going after north america next. i'm sure he would have turned on japan eventually.
in other words, he came out of the gate insane.
>>73500576
Get the mail to my mailbox.
And it technically will always because by definition nothing else is mail and cannot be put in mailboxes.
>>73500576
Everything
>>73503559
>My view is that the state's role is the regulation of violence, not the regulation of voluntary exchange.
And when California's factories killed New England forests?
>>73501942
This. Natural monopolies should be nationalised.
Support for re-nationalising the railways, postal service and utilities is supported by the majority of people regardless of party ideology in the UK. Peter Hitchens (a staunch traditional conservative) supports bringing back British Rail for a good reason.
>>73503559
>Someone advocating for a free market wanting the most violent entity possible in charge of regulating violence.
Do you even non-aggression bro?
>>73501545
In The States, local government pays private contractors to build roads
>>73503087
>the postal service is really good unless you live in the south considering the US government hates the south.
Northern post office only good at distributing welfare checks to PO boxes, they fuck up everything else
>>73502481
Well no, not the US government. Taiwan though. And really even most of Europe is slightly better than the US.
>>73500576
Moon landings.
>>73504051
To a Federal standard I presume?
Even then there is nothing in the context of government preventing the government using the most efficient means available to deliver services.
>>73503559
>There is no issue unless the use of force is involved (such as with the Pinkertons)
Competition is what makes an this style of economics work. So long as buisinesses compete, they must provide the best services or products that they can.
>>73500576
Oppression. Making white guilt, creating division and enabling dindus.
>>73504108
Not the US in general. We can do socialism no better than the Middle East can do democracy. It's just not a part of who we are, culturally or genetically.
And Europe isn't doing socialized health care very well either. They all have a public/private system in place. Healthcare services the individual. It may be in the government's best interest to have a healthy population, but healthcare isn't something which can be served by a common denominator like roads.
>>73504267
True, but then what about Toll roads in which you must pay to drive on? Would that make them private roads?
>>73503848
I don't know what you're referring to, specifically. Environmental preservation? The world belongs to humanity. I'm not concerned with the preservation of animal species.
>>73504040
I am not so naive to think that non-aggression dogma can be instilled into everyone in this world, or even a majority of people. Our concept of property rights are not universal and a coercive state is necessary to enforce our concept of it.
>>73504572
Ostensibly those tolls are supposed to pay for the corridor expansion due to higher traffic demands. In reality the funds get sent elsewhere.
>>73504148
Fighting world wars
Funding crazy science projects - internet, nukes, haldron colliders, computers
Colonising whole continents
Patron of the Arts - michalangelo, Beethoven
Procurer and Preserver of knowledge - muh Royal societies, Letter of Patents
Mother fucking law and order - the assize, Justinian's code, Napoleon's Code, Common Law, Civil Law, Equity etc etc
>>73501321
>Egypt
Yes, me and stefan want you dead
>>73504656
>I don't know what you're referring to, specifically. Environmental preservation? The world belongs to humanity. I'm not concerned with the preservation of animal species
There are perfectly pragmatic views to support environmental preservation. Our environments work, and fucking with them often cause problems for us, like when people in the US killed most of the wolves. The deer population exploded and overfed, which fucked up rivers and forests. Thse things have far reaching effects. The world is alright right now, we should keep it that way, at least unil we get better at predicting the effects of change.
>>73504656
>I am not so naive to think that non-aggression dogma can be instilled into everyone in this world, or even a majority of people. Our concept of property rights are not universal and a coercive state is necessary to enforce our concept of it.
You could not be more of a cuck if you intended to.
>>73504572
The toll is the government's "carrot" for private investment. Alternatively its a bs excuse to charge for something already paid for (via council rates)
>>73500576
checks and balances to prevent corruption.
>>73501195
East India Company?
>>73504727
Well I learn something new everyday
>>73505049
Checks and balances that get in their way and make 2 week projects take 40 fucking years of debates to get approved
>>73504656
Do we have public commons? Do we have public resources? Even if we don't, if we are to carve up the earth into sectors of private property, how then do we handle the challenge of destructive forces which know nothing of boundaries?
In the old days pollution was a local problem. California had local air pollution, so it built its factory chimneys higher. This pushed the pollutants across the continent in the winds only to be released on New England forrests in the form of acid rain.
Even if we dispense with public commons, what recourse do private timber and fishing companies have for the destruction of their livelihood? California gives no fucks and doesn't need to enter into any trade with New England.
>>73500576
Space
>>73505311
this
sea and space exploration (other than resources scouting)
>>73505311
There was a 30 year moratorium on private human space flight at the end of the Apollo era, making it illegal. The X-Prize was won when it was, because the ban had expired. And then of course a series of economic bubble bursts and recession to destroy any hope in private space flight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29kcLy37IhY
Into Music, songs by composer Alexandrov "Holy War", on the Red Square enter the state flag of the Russian Federation and the LEGENDARY VICTORY BANNER. Banner group of military battalion honor guard of the 154th detached commandant Transfiguration regiment passes near the parade line army division, tribunes with veterans and guests of honor. '71 Ago, during the battle for Berlin, the soldiers of the 150th Division Idritsa sergeant Mikhail Yegorov and junior sergeant Militon Kantariya hoisted the flag over the defeated Reichstag. Since then, this "attack flag" - is a VICTORY BANNER.
>>73505524
>this expression indicates the private sector's confusion and lack of understanding. when confronted with something the private sector can't understand or can't respond to, the free market shrieks "The free market will fix everything!" or "Free market, mothafucka!" this is usually followed by complaints about government regulations and how their ideas might work if someone gave them a chance.
>>73504450
If a company has a monopoly, that means that it IS providing the best products or services available.
If another entity could conceivably compete, take market share, then it would... unless there was a better opportunity.
The exception being the use of force to prevent competition.
>>73504944
If there are legitimately pragmatic (economic) reasons to preserve the environment, then it would be done via voluntary transaction. No government force required.
>>73504957
You can start arguing any time.
>>73505210
I find myself in the Georgist category. I do believe there is a commons, the geographical territory of a state. I believe that citizens should rent the commons, and I believe that the state should protect the commons as an asset. That includes regulations on pollution, yes.
However, the commons should be viewed as an economic human asset. We should not prevent the development of areas for sentimental reasons. We should not moan about deforestation when these are just areas being developed for productive use...
So when something is legitimately damaging the commons, there should be restitution. However, we should not prevent land development for sentimental reasons. That's my view, anyway.
>>73505789
I'm not saying the free market would fix it. I'm saying it was illegal for the free market to even try. We don't know where it could have gone, because there wasn't a chance to do it. And right now, no one is doing it.
>>73500576
providing a democratic basis for distribution of wealth from the productive members of the society to non-productive majority voter base i.e. state employees, retirees and monopolies living in ponzi woderland
>>73500576
National defense and making sure markets remain open to competition.
Literally nothing else.
>>73500576
waste money?
>>73505884
>the mega rich and every decision they make is so super perfect that pollution and global warming cant possibly be true otherwise they'd volunteer to stop global warming
seems like youre disproving your own argument
R&D.
>>73505884
What if the simply had acquired enough money to purchase nearly all the necessary resources, cutting deals with resource suppliers that ensured exclusivity?
>>73504543
There are just a lot of problematic externalities for healthcare to be a market system. In China you have to negotiate a price with the ambulance in the middle of your health emergency. Obviously the person bleeding out is at a disadvantage. Or when you go to buy health insurance, you look healthy but you also know every male relative had a heart attack at 45; you are 44.
Some kind of single payer is going to be the best system for all that.
>>73505884
>However, we should not prevent land development for sentimental reasons.
That ignores about half the human experience. But, I also don't see much reason to have no use Parks as opposed to wise use Forests. On the third hand, pristine wilderness, as opposed to managed wilderness, serves as a pretty good tourist draw, so even that has economic benefits. And then there's the scientific benefits of being able to study relatively untouched populations.
>>73505884
>If a company has a monopoly, that means that it IS providing the best products or services available.
>If another entity could conceivably compete, take market share, then it would... unless there was a better opportunity.
>The exception being the use of force to prevent competition.
Competition can be removed without the creation of a literal monopoly. Collusion can allow buisinesses to artificially inflate prices.
Competition is literally a founding principle of Capitalism, and it's what makes it superior to Marxism. Maxism necesitates that human beings be perfect. Capitalism expects imperfections and attempts to redirect them towards productive ends through competition. If competition is removed, the system falls apart.
>>73503626
>muh anecdote
you would really benefit from reading "the not so wild, wild west"
>>73505485
>>73505524
Human space exploration is dumb. No wonder markets haven't done it.
>>73506297
Ambulance services provide for populations and can be reduced to a common denominator, stabilize a patient until they get to an emergency room. Likewise emergency rooms can be reduced to common denominators, stabilize a patient until they can survive without immediate care. Both those things are already covered under government programs. Anything beyond that is a luxury. I have no obligation to pay for the consequences of your obesity.
>>73505884
Starting a business is risky. If the type of industry requires high startup costs and you know the current monopoly has deep pockets to sell below cost until you go out of business, why would you even try in the first place?
>>73506465
Those are historical facts, not anecdotes.
>>73505311
KEK
1. Spending other people's money
2. Military (see point 1)
3. Making lazy, unproductive parasites feel like they are victims
4. Making you feel that rights are gifts given to you by them
>>73506818
innovate and find dat niche, grow it, sell it whole and retire
>>73506903
>new technology is better than 40 year old tech
MORE AT 11:00
>>73506762
OP was just looking for anything better done by government.
But I believe you missed the second point of my post. In that case the consumer has secret information that will screw over the insurance company. So yes, you will be paying for someone else's problems.
>>73506119
Pollution is an issue. Global warming is not pollution, and it does not appear to be an issue. We're talking about a timescale of hundreds of years, and the areas most impacted are the third-world which are far more dependent on the "natural habitat." First-world countries will be fine because we aren't dependent on the whims of nature.
>>73506260
Land shouldn't be sold, it should be rented out by the state. Leaseholds, not freeholds. National defense is an ongoing cost.
>>73506415
>On the third hand, pristine wilderness, as opposed to managed wilderness, serves as a pretty good tourist draw, so even that has economic benefits. And then there's the scientific benefits of being able to study relatively untouched populations.
Yes, it has economic benefits. Without a doubt, some areas would be used as recreational land or ecological land for research purposes. These things have market value, so the market should deal with it.
>>73506461
Collusion is not always a winning strategy. Likewise, labor unionization is not always a winning strategy.
When the gain in market share more than compensates for the "collusion premium," collusion is no longer a winning strategy. If you have a significantly better product/process than your fellow colluders, you have no incentive to continue with the agreement. You can swipe a larger market share and come out ahead compared to staying in the agreement...
>>73506818
One of the fallacies oft-repeated in the competition discussion is that only startups can challenge a monopoly. Plenty of big-money conglomerates love to diversify, and if you're a small guy then you can probably cooperate with some big-money people to get your foot in.
>>73500576
Research. Almost all of the best discoveries and inventions were government funded.
>>73503818
Hi switched colors puerto rico!
control the private sector
>>73507172
But healthcare isn't done better by the government. Everywhere there is socialized healthcare there is shittier service. Except Straya. I don't know why but I think it has something to do with emus.
>>73504896
BJORN NO
>>73500576
lie, cheat, and steal
also killing, all governments are great at that
>>73507052
THATS NOT THE ARGUMENT
>>73507283
I wasn't just think of little startups. Copper mines or chip fabrication are hundreds of millions each. Even huge companies would have to sacrifice the rest of their business to break into a copper monopoly. Plus even if you break the monopoly there is still risk it won't be very profitable compared to other business areas.
>>73509024
It likely wouldn't be very profitable. Why is that?
It's because those industries are already highly efficient and produce excellent products at extremely low prices.
There is no competition because there isn't much to be gained... as I said, there are better opportunities for investors than trying to compete in these paperthin-margin industries.
>>73501644
paid for by? the people.
>>73509348
Mature industries can't settle or someone else will upend the market.
>>73501744
Are the Dutch swamp Jews?
>>73500576
I would not trust a private police department, military, fire or emergency service personally.
Private security guards are fucking stupid enough already, I have no idea why some libertardians suggest they should be the norm.
spend money
>>73509851
Also public infrastructure management and city planning/building codes. One only needs to look to Kowloon to see what free market city planning looks like.
>>73509851
>>73510161
Do you even covenant?
You don't need violent government force to manage society.
Think of like, an HOA for a community but with broader responsibilities. Or a diversity of organizations similar to an HOA which perform different functions.
>>73510463
>You don't need violent government force to manage society.
Yes you do, humans are entirely too stupid to manage themselves.
>>73500576
law enforcement and emergency services
or, in other words, keeping the peace
>>73500576
giving you something to be mad about
>>73500576
border security and modern invasion of over seas countries.
there is no way i'm letting any fuckhead get their hands on a nuke. everytime a school shooting happens an entire city will blow up.
>>73501341
Its a term used in economics its called public goods and positive externalities. Since there is the Free rider problem where people benefit from a public good without paying there is no incentive to do anything in that market. Government takes over and either controls the market (see public parks) or subsidizes the market to give incentive to exist (see subsidized vaccines)
>>73500576
Infrastructures (the state-owned French train company SNCF delivers a far better service than the private one in the UK), fundamental research (CNRS, NASA, ESA, the Soviet space programm ...), energy (depends on the country though, the French electrical network is pretty good and is state-owned), war ...
>>73509437
The government represents the people.
>>73512246
this :^)
nothing, but maybe lies.
