Man, the circlejerk on /pol/ really is nauseating.
I'm an educated liberal who believes in the importance of leftist/liberal ideas, and why they are important for America. We could have a utopia if we wanted one.
Debate me on any topic you want.
What do you think the minimum wage should be?
>>73338227
Show me one Utopia in the world and now show me a thriving nation under leftist ideas and socialism. Ill wait.
>>73338227
>We could have a utopia if we wanted one.
Why, in the 20,000 years of human societies since ancient times, haven't we had Utipoia before? Why do you think you're capable of having one now?
>>73338339
I think 12 would be a good start. 15 might be too high, what we have now is too low.
>>73338385
Norway, Iceland, Finland, Japan, South Korea, China, Ireland, Germany besides the immigrant problems.
>>73338437
I think there are certain nations on Earth that already qualify as a kind of utopia, I believe America has fit that bill before as well.
Would you spend a week in the ghetto?
>>73338385
Venezuela
checkmate faggot
>>73338534
I've spent several nights in the ghetto, it's very fucked up for a range of complex reasons.
>>73338473
Those countries didn't get rich from socialist ideas. They got rich and then leftism took over.
>>73338473
Poor examples as those are all homogeneous civilizations. Don't get me wrong. I admire the 'lofty' ambitions of Liberals/Globalists. But the problem of course is they clearly don't know how to get where they want to go. Hence. Prepare for the God-Emperor.
>>73338385
Denmark too.
>>73338473
I said thriving anon.
>China, having good leftist qualities
literally a shit hole, the only good city is Hong Kong which is capitalist.
China practically uses slave labor. Doesnt that bother you and your $15 minimum>>
>>73338227
Why has the wealth gap increased so much under the liberal politicies of the past 15 years?
Why have Obama and Hillary murdered so many brown people in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen?
>>73338227
What do you think of anarcho primitivism?
The only way to fix all of humanity's problems is to completely abandon technology desu
>>73338227
Utopias aren't real just like my waifu.
>>73338227
Is White pride a good idea?
>>73338610
Do you have sources on just how much multi-racial/ multiculturalism degrades societies? America has been the most diverse nation on Earth for a long time now and is also the richest.
>>73338564
FUCK!!
>>73338584
What kinds of drugs were you buying?
Also what's your view on blacks having such high rates of homosexuality and AIDS?
>>73338227
If you are a liberal why are you a leftist when a great deal of the authoritarianism is coming from the left in America.
>>73338473
>Japan
>socialist
>South Korea
>socialist
>China
>not a 3rd world country
Too bad, I was actually hoping this wasn't a troll.
>>73338735
It's okay to have pride in your race, I just think a lot of people get too carried away with it and become irrational and hateful. You need to find a balance.
>>73338710
I like it in principle, however the lack of modern medicine completely destroys it as a viable option.
>>73338531
I think there are certain nations on Earth that already qualify as a kind of utopia, I believe America has fit that bill before as well.
America has never been a utopia, we may have been a great improvement over the rest of the world because it was basically on fire, but we've never been perfect.
>>73338755
I can't produce the data because the Sociologists shut down any studies which explain why. Perfect example. Look at Putnam, whom once we produced data explaining the problem of Multiculturalism, he scorned the data like a orphan child.
http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/
>Check the date. Notice how its 2007. Before the era of unchecked Globalism when the NeoCons were still in play.
America is also a terrible example. Civic Nationalism is a special kind of Nationalism we've thrown away, and now the Country is breaking apart because of it.
>>73338791
I was hanging out at my friend's apartment. Do blacks have an abnormal rate of homosexuality?
>>73338821
Because things aren't that simple.
>>73338823
Or leftist. Universal healthcare and education is pretty left compared ot our situation. Pay attention to context.
>>73338227
>i see things i dont like
>ergo, i am better than you, in my own personal opinion
>im better than you, but lets speak as equals
>p-please validate my existence by talking to me
Here's your (you)
> I'm educated
> proceed to get blown the fuck out
Every time
>>73338958
The 50's, early 60's, 80's, mid to late 90's were really amazing for America.
>>73338962
That's really not that good of an argument man.
>>73338969
>Japan
>leftist
>South Korea
>leftist
>China
>not a 3rd world country
>>73339068
Where did that happen? I'm in the middle of discussions right now. If you'd like to contribute you're welcome to. If you can't stand the heat I suggest you learn your place.
>>73338227
No, you're NOT a liberal. I am a God-Damn liberal and I'm tired of you authoritarian, gun-fearing progressives and marxists stealing that title from me. You fuckers are also why the fascists are coming back; they are a reaction to progressive and Marxist faggotry.
Both you and the fascists should be gassed.
>>73338227
>I'm an educated liberal
>importance of leftist/liberal ideas
>We could have a utopia if we wanted one
>>73339095
What isn't. I threw three at you.
Also. It's interesting that you used the word 'not that good.' If it was a bad argument, you would've used the word 'bad.'
>>73338755
>Do you have sources on just how much multi-racial/ multiculturalism degrades societies?
I do:
https://plus.google.com/+BlackPigeonSpeaks/posts/4NyRpLRa1bA
>American most diverse nation
Nice meme, but no. Not even close.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level
>>73338473
>Norway, Iceland, Finland, Japan, South Korea, China, Ireland, Germany
You forgot America has a population and size many times larger than those nations. Any form of hardcore leftie socialism will NOT work in a huge nation like America due to it's size and population. You have to give people freedom (classic liberalism) not your shit tier modern liberalism for the nation to grow.
>>73339179
Liberal has a very wide range of meaning and I agree with classical liberalism much more than you think. I believe a decentralized model of governance could be the best choice for America.
>>73339224
Oh right forgot to add it. If you have nothing to say and are just going to use memes, insults or images I'm going to hide your post. I'd rather have good debate with people. You have one chance.
>>73339284
THIS
>>73338227
>we could have a utopia if we wanted one.
confirmed for 19yo liberal arts major, probably from Tufts or Swarthmore or some other college where its considered avant-garde to be a homosexual when you're young.
Saged.
>>73338227
>Utopia
You mean like Detroit?
>>73339230
Yeah, I didn't think it was bad. I just don't think it's good. You made excuses and your explanation for America being a terrible example was pretty bad. The only good part was your link. The rest was basically junk.
>>73339362
nah, you'd have to have a high school education at least to go to college. OP confirmed for having dropped out of 7th grade
>>73338473
>>73338227
Why do you sexualise women?
Why do you project inachievable standards of beauty?
#CHECKYOURPRIVILEGE SHITLORD!!!11!1!!
>>73339284
It could be a decentralized model where the states that are worth something adopt leftist policies and the poor shithole states can sell everything to private enterprise.
>>73338969
>because things arn't that simple.
Oh, but they are. You self identify as a liberal. The political left in this country is becoming more and more authoritarian (college campuses for example). You could stop identifying as a liberal, that is, unless you actually agree with the lefts progress towards authoritarianism.
Just admit it, you are an authoritarian leftist.
>>73339422
strawman, dropped.
>>73339539
The rise of the regressive left doesn't change the fact that I'm still a liberal. I'm very much not authoritarian and believe in the importance of civil liberties.
Y'all niggas posting in a...
oh, nevermind
12/7/14
Never forget.
>>73339442
...and yet you have to give a counter argument. I thought you were the one who was supposed to be debating me?
>>73339492
You talk so much shit with absolutely no argumentation. Shitpost somewhere else unless you can rack that eurotrash brain of yours to come up with something worth addressing.
>>73338227
>educated
>liberal
Choose only one.
>>73339527
Lol what's the point of doing that when it worked perfectly in the 60s
>>73339442
Your a slippery one. But I'll pin you down.
>>73339675
This.
GG op.
>>73338227
>I'm an educated liberal
Opinion discarded pretending fag
>>73338227
Who will build this utopia? Who?
Because this is the question you people never answer. It won't be you. You are not the builders of the future. It is always someone else. This is the problem with liberal elites. It is about getting the masses to do what you want. Which is what you supposedly hate about the other side!
Who will build it? And no, I am not just talking about money but time and effort. I am sick of hypocrisy with no ethical backbone. Will you do something about things?
Why is it always someone else that must do everything for you. Pay for you. Serve you. Make the country how you want it to be.
The distinct problem with society is the abadonment of the philsophy of personal responsibility.
Does instability damage us? Yes. Do things like discrimination cause issues? Yes. But think about it this way: who does it help to blame the other? Who? Does being paralysed by the want for change and blaming all your problems on another actually bring about the change you desire? No.
It is like the robot on /r9k/ that wants to change. Change not started tonight won't be completed tomorrow. But what they do? Go to sleep and say I will do it tomorrow. Then wake up, repeat the cycle and then think "If only a qt would fall in my lap" or "If only society would change to how I want it".
The problem is you won't build your utopia. You will just continually insult people and damage democracy in the progressive quest to be the largest oppressed group. Groups that have oppressed mentalities, no matter how justified, build nothing.
Only the strong build something. Being a victim, whether justified or not, is not a position of strength. Only the weak follow a victim.
>>73339675
If you think Japan and South Korea are socialist countries or that China is a nice place to live in, you're either flat earth tier ignorant or mentally ill.
>>73338755
Multiculturalism is a European thing. America is diverse but not multicultural.
>>73339658
I wasn't expecting this many responses so it's taking a bit. That is a very interesting article and surely relevant in today's society. Truth is, where I'm from being racist and being liberal are not mutually exclusive.
>>73339675
You used Japan as an example of a leftist nation. GTFO.
They still use essentially jim crowe laws there. They are as right as you get. Accepted only like 20 rapeugees which btw 12 of are in jail for rape. You have no clue what you are talking about. Typical Lib
>>73338227
>We could have a utopia if we wanted one.
do you know the definition of an utopia?
it by virtue is unattainable as you are simply looking past the negative flaws humans have possessed since time immemorial
everything sounds nice on paper or in your mind, now try to make it work for once
>>73339839
You are technically right. But this is lost on people.
>>73339858
Ah. I won't waste my time then. Good luck with all the others. Try not to waste their time either.
>>73338227
why reject fascism?
>>73339804
He said socialist or leftist. A nation with universal healthcare and universal education is very much leftist compared to the US. They care a lot more about public infrastructre as well.
>>73339868
No, you have a very uneducated view as to what leftism is.
>>73338473
These are all homogenous white communities you fuckhead.
>>73339306
>liberal has a wide range of meanings
Not really. At it's core liberal means free. If you are truely a liberal then you should champion peoples liberties, even if you PERSONALLY disagree with them (gun rights, hate speech, etc.).
If you think those things should be restricted, then you probably shouldn't self identify as a liberal.
>>73339306
If you're looking to debate, you came to the wrong place, just sayin'.
>>73339779
I'd be on suicide watch if someone BTFO me so badly.
>>73338227
Is there such a thing as a right to privacy?
If so does it apply equally to all matters or not?
>>73339975
>He said socialist or leftist. A nation with universal healthcare and universal education is very much leftist compared to the US. They care a lot more about public infrastructre as well.
Okay, do you not understand something called context? Certain ideas may be viewed as leftist compared to another within your narrow view but that is ignoring other nations and their politics.
>educated liberal
>>73339968
I agreed with you, but alright.
>>73339973
Because my ancestors died to fight off authoritarianism and I'm not a submissive bitch who needs to be ordered around.
>>73340029
I don't think those things should be restricted. You're literally making up my views for me.
>>73340015
There are several relatively homogenous states in the US as well.
>>73340049
Some people are willing to.
>>73338227
>circlejerk
That's something only reddit does.
>>73339975
>Not an argument
Youre just on damage control.
> Japan is capitalist as fuck
> Japan is racist and xenophobic as fuck
> Japan talks to russia
>Current PM gives tax breaks.
Im sorry but what about Japan is left?
>inb4 gun control and maternity leave
>>73340113
Except for I'm not on the regressive left.
>>73340129
I'm speaking from an American perspective. Universal healthcare, education and lots of work put into public infrastructure are left compared to what we have.
>>73338227
>thinly veiled ama thread
nah you are the one who asserted leftism is either good or rationally justifiable. You need to assert a specific, falsifiable idea, and back it with evidence. Otherwise kick rocks
>>73340148
the majority of people are bitches who need to be ordered around, why let the plebs of your nation kill each other
>>73338227
Then why did you post a white woman?
>>73340228
Maternity leave, universal healthcare, universal education, heavy focus on public infrastructure.
How do you feel about the law
>>73339284
This
>>73340280
Nope.
>>73340314
Necessary, depends on what law.
>>73339620
Fair enough, but the left is being defined more and more by it's regressive/authoritarian portion. Why would you want to be associated with that?
You could identify as a liberal moderate/independent, or something else more middle-of-the-road. Based on your posts, that sounds more accurate.
>>73340245
>I'm speaking from an American perspective. Universal healthcare, education and lots of work put into public infrastructure are left compared to what we have.
Left from what you have does not mean that certain governments are leftist.
Do you not understand that..
So by saying x government is left is silly. And even then, certain things like healthcare are not inherently "leftist" in many countries. That is not how they are viewed at all.
>>73338227
>utopia
haaa hahahahaha
>>73340358
>Nope.
excellent rebuttal autismo
>>73339975
>he said
I'll go with mentally ill.
>state healthcare
Not actually provided by the state in most of the countries you've listed including Germany. Rather, major insurance companies get state subsidiaries to insure the average citizen who cannot pay for private insurance. There are a gazillion exceptions to who is entitled to them of course, including free lancers, students over 25 etc.
The only countries that do actually provide state care are the UK and some former USSR countries like Russia and Belarus (although to get quality treatment there people still pay privately).
Why start debates when it looks like you've just learned how to read and write?
Japan and South Korea are what would be considered far-right countries by Western standards.
>>73340460
*you still pay, often a lot towards these insurances
Common-sense racial categories have biological meaning.
http://www.ln.edu.hk/philoso/staff/sesardic/Race2.pdf
Human intelligence up to 75% inheritible
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12061787/Intelligence-genes-discovered-by-scientists.html
Human intelligence is highly heritable.
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v16/n10/abs/mp201185a.html
Scientific consensus is that IQ tests are not racially biased.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289608000305
Very poor Whites are comparably intelligent to very wealthy blacks.
http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
Privately, intelligence experts hold more hereditarian views than they express in public.
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1994egalitarianfiction.pdf
Black children raised in White households have similar IQs to black children in black households.
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1977-07996-001
The average African IQ is estimated at 79.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886912003741
The average African-American IQ is 85, compared to the average White IQ of 100.
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstream.pdf
The white-black gap in SAT scores, a proxy for IQ, is increasing.
http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
Genes for large brains, linked to high IQ, are common everywhere except Africa.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB115040765329081636
Intelligence has at least a 40-50% genetic basis.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/10/news/la-heb-genetic-study-intelligence-20110809
IQ scores are the best predictor of success in Western society.
http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf
IQ is 75% heritable among Whites.
http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf
>>73340405
>he gives some opinion that most people want to be ordered around and acts as though it's fact
Okay man.
>>73340306
>didnt read my post.
>inb4 maternity leave
>says maternity leave
>universal education
okay fine but, reminder, smaller population, and homogeneous population. Diversity ruins countries. You cant even argue other.
>public infrastructure
infrastructure is not a leftist idea you fuck wit, ore even a right for that matter. stop trying to stamp it with your commie bullshit. and a republican was the one who signed the bill that built our nations highways and infrastructure if you really want to go there. rekt
>>73340306
That's not leftist.
>>73340553
Yeah I know, doesn't change the fact that I hold liberal views.
>>73340245
Do you know how much it would cost to give over 300 million people "FREE" healthcare.
Do you know how much you would have to raise the taxes to not damage the economy drastically? Do you know that raising the taxes would cripple the economy and raise the prices of all goods? Do you realise America is deeply in dept ($17.8 trillion) estimate and you guys cannot afford to spend even more money?
>educated
>liberal
Yeah I dominated my fair share of you faggots on UF's debate team. You're just narcissistic and stupid
>>73340568
if you're so sure it's not a fact you should have no problem refuting it instead of ducking your head in the sand
>>73340606
Yes they are.
>>73340626
Americans pay the highest prices for healthcare in the developed world by far and they get mediocre returns. Your average American has worse healthcare than their developed partners, and pay much more for it.
>>73340611
So you're either a National Socialist, if you mean purely economically, or acting against your own interest, in which case I don't care
>>73340148
>your making up my views
Not at all. You called yourself a liberal leftist. That means some pretty specific things, particularly in this political climate. If there are fundimental things about the left that you disagree with, don't identify as one.
>>73340606
free school and maternity leave is but who cares. 50 of the top 100 universities are in the US. paying for college is the only way to receive a good education. Thats why all the wealthy people of asia and europe pay top dollar to attend american universities.
>>73340722
It's an opinion without any backing. I can just disagree with it. I'm not playing a game where your words have more power than mine.
>>73340797
You're oversimplifying these concepts to a ridiculous level. The label means much less than what I actually believe. The word liberal can be anything from Ron Paul to Bernie Sanders.
>>73340768
No, I think a decentralized model would work well because some US states are very wealthy and homogenous. My ideas are liberal, my ideas of how to carry out those ideas are more libertarian I guess you could say.
>>73340728
My dad is waiting for an operation for over 3 years and his liver is badly damaged as a result. He went to a private place and asked what they think, they said they can go with the operation but it would be bloody expensive.
Says a lot about MUH NHS. Bunch of lazy cunts living off taxes.
>>73338584
20 year veteran of living in the ghetto. Fuck off with your spent a few nights, fag
>>73340306
Those are all authoritarian left positions; in that the government must take, by force of law, from one party to give to another party.
>>73340893
>without any backing
so you're telling me the average person is intelligent?
>>73338227
Your ideas are shit.
>>73340728
Obamacare doesnt even cover the entire hospital bill. Hospitals are already government subsidized and they have to eat the rest of the bill when obamacare comes thru the door. it causes everyone elses health care premiums to go up to pay the hospital the difference. Its a shit policy. Its the same reason with illegals. Its law a hospital cannot refuse treatment. So illegals
1.) dont pay taxes
2. ) burden the educational and health care systems by attending them.
Build wall and keep anymore form coming in.
Make all current illegals here citizens and start making them pay.
>>73338227
>>73340996
Our doctors hand out painkillers like candy and are more interested in treating symptoms than causes because it makes more money.
>>73341056
Good for you man, what a great accomplisment.
>>73341095
The average person is average. You weren't talking about intelligence, you were talking about desire to be commanded.
>>73341147
We don't have a true single payer system.
>>73341199
desire to be commanded? i said needed
>>73338227
>the importance of leftist/liberal ideas
>>73340893
Bernie Sanders isn't a liberal. Leftist yes; liberal, not at all.
>>73338227
>We could have a utopia
Communist utopia.
/thread
OP is a faggot.
>educated
If it's not a masters degree in engineering, you're not educated enough. I'm far-right with an MSc in civil engineering.
One man's utopia is another's dystopia
>>73338227
>educated liberal
>>73338732
Don't remind me anon
>>73341253
Either way it's false. Western liberal democracies are the best nations o nthe planet by nearly every measure and have been for a long time.
>>73338473
>he thinks he can artificially place a value on labour
the misunderstanding of market forces makes it impossible to take liberals seriously
>>73341306
Didn't say communist. Strawmen are not allowed in this thread.
>>73338227
>le /pol/ is a circlejerk maymay
Look at the fucking catalog and there is always at least 3 POL BTFO threads a day and at least one of them makes it to the front page.
>>73341507
>and have been for a long time
then why throw it away for irrational progressivism
>>73339779
This is beautiful.
>>73341557
Are you implying that minimum wage just doesn't work? did you know that both of our nation's have minimum wage and we live in very successful and rich nations?
>>73338227
There are no real leftist liberal ideas, there are only classic values and the enivronment that act like a vehicle to transport their message. What you see now isnt any of the classical liberal values we like to discuss. It is an abomination of what we considered sane. Something that men and lesser men could enjoy and is now taken away from them.
And we will restore it.
>>73341649
You mean shill threads where the Op doesn't even participate in the thread?
>>73341661
Not regressive left, last time I'm saying it.
>>73338227
>I'm an educated liberal
>educated
>liberal
Pick one and only one, you raging faggot.
>>73338473
>South Korea
Right wing, also shitty
>China
LOL, the only good part is Hong Kong (right wing)
>Japan
kek
Let me guess. You're a delusional Asian who loves to vote against your interest. GTFO
>>73339779
1. I work, pay taxes, vote and participate in my community.
2. I don't subscribe to identity politics or the regressive left.
>>73341729
silly me, how could socialism be regressive?
>>73338755
multiculturalism =/= diversity in ethnicity. It is a meme-policy that has ruined the integrity of canada.
We used to have a reason to lump the provinces together: oneness under a banner of the Queen. A shared history of a bicultural establishment in which european powers fought for dominance and scots, irish, and krauts all aided in the cultivation of a proud commonwealth of the UK.
that is no longer the case, the divisions between canadians is growing, and there is no sense of cohesion or group unity, outside the rare instances of pocket-communities still steeped in traditionalism.
It's a great way to say "we have no culture, b/c we are multiple cultures!". It is an excuse for champagne socialists to feel happy with themselves while communities self-segregate to a point where someone can never learn one of our 2 official languages and live their entire lives just fine.
>>73339068
>be ''''''''''redpilled''''''''
>be delusional
has the word lost all definition?
>>73341774
t. completely clueless about reality
>>73341854
Not suggesting socialism, strawman. Last chance for you.
>>73341673
>did you know that both of our nation's have minimum wage
Are you seriously implying that the US and Canada are top tier countries because of minimum wage?
>educated
Holy fuck mate. Did you educate yourself in Gender Studies or something?
>>73341774
>>73341673
>Are you implying that minimum wage just doesn't work?
that's exactly what I'm implying. It's a piss poor way of unions to artificially elevate the price of their labour by creating a higher basement.
our having minimum wages has nothing to do with our collective success.
>>73341874
When did I claim to be le epic red piled?
>>73341871
That's unfortunate.
>>73341921
>Are you seriously implying that the US and Canada are top tier countries because of minimum wage?
Didn't say that. If your assertion is that minimum wage doesn't work, yet it's implicated in all the most successful nations, you're wrong.
>>73341909
so then what are you suggesting?
Also OP has completely failed to establish his views.
>debate me on anything
What is there to debate?
Assert something, anything.
This thread is a failure.
>>73341956
t. I took economics 101 and now I have hard opinions on things I pretend to understand
>>73341871
Sounds like what is going on in the States, as well.
>>73338732
>>73342010
Social liberalism applied on either a nationwide scale, or with a decentralized model where the successful and homogenous states implement it.
>>73341976
>he thinks 4chan is actually anonymous
>>73342090
>i'm not saying socialism, but socialism
>>73341983
>Didn't say that
You certainly were implying it.
>If your assertion is that minimum wage doesn't work, yet it's implicated in all the most successful nations, you're wrong
>good countries are using it
>therefore its good
Come on, friend, I thought you were educated. Clarify your views.
>>73342144
Wow man you are absolutely clueless. Socialism is a more all in form of social liberalism. This is basic shit.
>>73342178
Does it raise the minimum wage while the economy still works? Then it fulfills its purpose. The purpose of the minimum wage is to make sure wages don't fall below a certain point.
>circlejerk on /pol/
How can /pol/ be circlejerking if they are being raided by leftists 100% of the time? imbécile.
[spoiler]>>73341871
You know when you all cisle off the values you held dear, will will take everything we want. And we have nothing but disprect for your kind. Someone like you makes my mouth water like a women with big tits. You are the ultimate sacrifice and i m really enjoying it. And that is what people see in me, it is written all over our face. You little fucking faggots, you little maggots, it is you we feast on first your little perceived intellectual superiority, which is just a weakness all in all, a weakness in perception and groupdynamics, we will count on that and eat like oneone ate before.
>>73342341
Hey anon, take a look and count the number of liberals in this thread compared to those on the right, specifically the alt-right. That's called a circlejerk and it's like that in every thread.
>>73339284
>America has a larger population than China
British education, everyone.
>>73342307
sorry for not knowing much about the Matryoshka doll that is leftism
Communism --> Socialism ---> Social liberalism
is that correct
>>73342479
>he's on a politics board and thinks liberalism and socialism are the exact same thing
Stay in school kid, seriously you need it.
>>73341983
>>73342056
It's far worse here.
Americans have a stubborn, steadfast, and strong history. It is the greatest story of a nation born out of ideals, hard-work, and bloodshed. And after all that, the glorious constitution, and an idea of the American Dream came to be cultivated by your beliefs and actions.
There are hardly any low points in your history and always something to be proud of, including now.
Canada had all that, until the 70s when justin's dad fucked us all over.
>necessitating all bureaucratic positions had to be bilingual created a class of montreal elites who are the only ones able to reasonably speak both languages
>this means that as long as you speak fluent french you can get by, even if you send like peppy lepieu whilst speaking the Queen's
>my moderate french is not good enough b/c "you speak with a parisian accent"
>>73342043
that is not a rebuttal, simply character assassination.
I'll give you a second chance
>>73342341
It's a shaming tactic.
>>73342307
>The purpose of the minimum wage is to make sure wages don't fall below a certain
Great, you stated the basic purpose of a minimum wage.
Now lets go beyond simple definitions and state some actual opinions, to help foster ACTUAL MEANINGFUL DEBATE.
Is it good for the economy?
If it is, can you explain why?
>>73342556
>not my socialism
>>73342090
How do you implement liberalism? The implementation of rules and laws is BY DEFINITION anti-liberal, regardless what those rules and laws are.
It sounds like you are buying in to the re-definition of the word "liberal" by the political class, be they members of the press or the government.
>>73342565
You said minimum wage doesn't work.
If the wage is kept from falling below a certain point, while the country prospers, then it works.
>>73338473
how are we leftist? we're still a theocracy ruled by the catholic church, homo laws change nothing as the list would be greater.
>>73342638
You're a waste of time and space.
>>73342568
It's good for the society because it makes sure that the lower classes don't become third world status. That in itself would cause serious problems.
Op is a faggot
>>73342090
>Social liberalism applied on either a nationwide scale, or with a decentralized model where the successful and homogenous states implement it.
Buzzword University
>>73342763
whoa, i thought liberals were tolerant, bigot
It works better with small populations. I have no problem with you fighting this fight on a state level, but how can you argue that the federal government needs more money than they already get?
>>73342763
>It's good for the society
That's not the question at all.
Is it good for the economy?
>>73338227
What's does circlejerk means?
>>73338227
Why do you liberals insist on continually keeping blacks stupid, violent and poor? Is it because you are afraid of conservative blacks who are far more likely to be educated and cynical of your party's practices?
>>73338227
How can leftist ideals work if we're having the population replaced by spics?
>>73338227
>educated liberal
Sorry pham, gender studies is on the same level as
>Mexican intellectual
Get gud faggot
>>73338227
>Man, the circlejerk on /pol/ really is nauseating.
It really is. /pol/ used to have quite a diversity of opinions. Even the liberals were better educated and actually made arguments other than "Oh my god, like I can't even believe you disagree with me". Given, they always got their shit handed to them, but at least they put in more effort. We used to have communists, libertarians, anarchists, all sorts of views on this board and actual debates with facts and statsistics. Now it's just autists bitching about women not fucking them and how their pet video game wasn't produced the way they wanted. Literally only the most cancerous /pol/ views have remained: libertarianism, christcucks, stupid American campaign shills (the absolute worst - every single American election is a massive orgy of autism on this board and always has been).
>>73342998
>straw men
>shit that never happened
Trumpfags ======= newfags
>>73342641
>it's a "taxation is never liberal/ taxation is theft poster
Go suck Stefan's cock
>>73342759
I'm talking more about how you deal with public funds and how much you spend.
>>73342827
We really don't spend that much of our percentage of GDP on our gov believe it or not. That being said, I'd prefer the decentralized model.
>>73342847
It allows the poor people to have more spending money, but that's not the main focus. This is about the well being of a society, not just the GDP.
>>73342911
I'd prefer we stopped that.
>>73342853
Bunch of people agreeing with eachother.
>>73342908
I don't want that at all, but cool strawman
I guess.
>>73342911
It is like a double tag team, mass immigration and capitalsim to justify it. It is like analmouse with all their retardation and a intl community to steer it.
The only time it hurts when i cant eat.
>>73343100
>it allows the poor people to have more spending money
AHAHAHAHA
>>73342666
>kept from falling below a certain point
which point is that, and by what metrics?
I think you're implying something about inflation and purchasing power, but your inability to simply mention that makes me think you're unaware of how minimum wage actually works.
>if conditions A-C are upheld, and result x is relatively successful, we can acknowledge that all conditions all successful
this is anti-logic, but I wouldn't expect a liberal to know that.
>inability to explain position
>gets devil's trips
>resist urge to point out that liberals are literally satan
>>73343100
>I'd prefer we stopped that.
So you're admitting leftist aren't going to work? How can we compare to northern Europe if our demographics are so vastly different?
>>73338227
>I'm an educated liberal
Translation: I have never had a real job.
>>73338227
There's nothing wrong with liberal principles... without balance though and checks and balances they run wild when unchecked like they have for the last 30 years. And thus why theyve created the regressive monster that is a cancer to the left. (I fall mid right on the spectrum. Non religious, believe in minimal spending smaller gov- the current right doesn't believe that anymore, 10th amendment advocate and can make a non religious case against birth control and abortion - if you think father hood is important)
Free speech - great but, the left cancer known as progressives have stolen this principle away.
Equal opportunity - again stolen and changed the meaning of opportunity to judge on arbitrary things like skin color or gender - even if they aren't right for the job.
Equality of the sexes - feminism used to mean something. Now it doesn't (mission accomplished) and won't go away. So hyperbolic man haters now want bring men down vs raise women up.
Public welfare and helping the poor - im a strong advocate to not feed the bears analogy. Meaning you can't support the poor with free shit. Welfare states never pan out. Women caused this but blaming women is a sin of modern society. I think providing the means of opportunity to the poor or minorities would be better rather than just giving them free shit.
Racial equality - here's one that ties into the ones above that the left dropped the ball on. You see white apologists wanting to support blacks and minorities in any way. I think the best route would be free school for black people specifically (being they average 15- 25 less IQ points to whites on average) if there was one way to make niggers shut the fuck up this would be it. But now even saying this is blasphemy to both the right and the left. The left calls me a racist and the right calls me an apologist. I think if you cut welfare, planned parenthood and only provided school to niggers. We would be better off as a whole.
>>73343083
>straw men
I see you're a libertarian. Also new as fuck.
>>73343201
Falling below the point where our lower class would be desperately poor.
>>73343285
I've worked blue collar jobs, now I have a job in my field. Nice try though.
>>73343267
Leftism is about a lot more than immigration. I think we should pool public money for schools, hospitals and infrastructure.
>>73339176
>>73339306
>>73338969
>>73338865
>>73338755
>>73338634
>>73338584
>>73338473
>>73338227
>>73338531
NOT AN ARGUMENT
>>73343100
>straw man
Then why is it that most blacks vote democrat, and that majority of these people are voting on impulse or on liberal promises of government handouts? And majority of these black democrat voters are poor or low middle class?
Anyone with a brain for crawling out of the ghetto will learn by experience that liberalism is a disease permeating the American black community.
>>73338227
>educated
>liberal
educated = intelligent
Fucking hate you smug faggots. Your utopia is a fantasy.
>>73342998
Elections draw in people from the outside. Many people have admitted that during our election cycle they leave the board and come back after it ends.
also
>cancerous libertarianism
fuck off
>>73343100
I've been respectful to you, and you decide to spew profanity at me.
Put you big boy pants on and defend your position. You tell me, how am I wrong?
It's not my fault words have definitions you choose to ignore for the sake of political expediency.
>>73343403
and what if i want good, private healthcare?
>>73343100
>It allows the poor people to have more spending money
In exchange for increase in prices and lower employment rates due to cost-cutting.
It also increases incentive towards automation.
>but that's not the main focus
No fuck you
Economy is the main focus.
Social well-being is depends entirely on economy, culture, and demographics.
The argument about minimum wage is clearly not as simple as you seem to think it is.
>>73343431
>fuck off
If and only if I feel like it. Not because some delusional gold-worshipping faggot told me this was his safe space.
>>73343403
>Falling below the point where our lower class would be desperately poor
THAT ISN'T A FUCKING EXPLANATION, NOR A INDICATION OF A METRIC!
>>73338227
Why do liberals bitch about pesticides and climate-change related crop losses but never realize that all those problems could be solved if all our edible plants were grown indoors via hydroponics/aeroponics? Why do you bitch about the great garbage patch and methane emissions from landfills when plasma arc gassification could virtually eliminate the problem of waste while producing energy without any significant emissions? Why do you people ignore nuclear power when it's the most efficient power source we have, and avoid discussing funding research for Thorium salt reactors?
You speak of circlejerks but you never address the real fucking problems with real fucking solutions and instead waste time and taxpayer money on identarian bullshit.
>>73338227
Have you ever implemented a system of non-trivial complexity?
>>73343492
You're redefining liberalism so that you can use it how you want to. At best, it's a semantic argument. I'm not giving you the time of fucking day with that.
>>73343590
You really have trouble grasping things that aren't in black and white.
>>73343572
And does that cost cutting and lower employment reach a point where it negates the positives brought on by minimum wage? I think not, and that's why every developed nation on Earth implements minimum wage or an alternative that has the same effect such as collective bargaining with the state.
>>73338227
>posts from the states
>WHERE IS MUH UTOPIA
kek
>>73343826
>>73343427
I'd like an answer for these kind of underhanded practices you liberals do to blacks and other minorities who fall into your honeypot, thanks
>>73343693
Not a liberal but the nuclear power thing is retarded until we can find a way to harness it without using 200 year old technology.
>>73338227
>educated
>posts on 4chan
pick one.
>>73343826
>he keeps skirting the question
Thanks for proving to me that it's generally a rule that liberals are unable to explain their positions beyond feelings and well-wishes
>>73338227
>>73343428
It is most likely a bunch of shills. But they should report to their superiour that i want my money otherwise i will hunt them down like dogs and nonone is going to save them :). They should think of their family, that is what i would do. And make no mistake this is not a little play. And hi to the FBI which cant do shit since i got the bigger hand.
>>73343578
>gold-worshipping faggot
Then you tell me what you believe in so I can ridicule your shitty autistic beliefs in the same way, you nigger.
>>73343924
I think we're pretty close and we've been there before, but unfortunately I feel as if we're drifting away from that.
>>73343939
Poor black people want free money. I think they should have to work on public projects for it, not just be given it. I disagree with many liberals on that topic.
>>73343981
Eh, redditors get nauseating sometimes and people on 4chan don't hesitate to say exactly what they think. I've found that /pol/ helps me refine my political views like a furnace to a blacksmith's project.
>>73338227
no you're not.
>>73338227
> educated
> liberal
Pick one. Also asking to be debated screams of unintelligence.
>>73344023
I really wish I could explain this to you but your desire for black and white thinking renders you completely unable to comprehend my point and borders on autism.
>>73344155
This entire post is sarcasm right?
>>73343826
>And does that cost cutting and lower employment reach a point where it negates the positives brought on by minimum wage?
That's a very good question.
It's also a question that has not yet gotten a satisfying answer from actual economists.
> I think not, and that's why every developed nation on Earth implements minimum wage or an alternative that has the same effect such as collective bargaining with the state.
And we're back to the same old
>good countries are using it
>therefore its good
God bless you.
>>73343826
I'm not the one redefining anything. Look the word liberal up. It's not my fault the word has been hijacked and assigned to a political ideology the is, BY DEFINITION, the opposite of what they ("liberals") practice or believe.
When you control language, you control thought. For example, you are literally calling authoritarian positions liberal ones. There is nothing inharently wrong with holding authoritarian positions, just be honest about it.
>>73338227
You are not a liberal. Liberals don't look that hot they look like Obese hamplanet skanks that no man in his right mind would fuck.
>>73338473
I visited the capital (Helsinki) today first time for a few years. I was the only white person in my train compartment both on the way there and the way back. The economy is already fucked up to maximum because the socialist retarded policies punish anyone that wants to become an entrepreneur and everything is getting outsourced out of this hell.
>>73338227
Ich will mein geld du kleine schwuchtel moot, und wenn ich es nicht bekomme dann halte ich deine sippe dafür verantwortlich, und du weißt genau dass du das bezahlen wirst, kannst ja google fragen.
>>73338227
I'll debate you on why you should kill yourself.
Reasons to suicide:
Liberal
>>73343826
>>73344258
Okay, fine. Let's go deeper into the argument.
If layoffs are implemented and jobs are slowly automated, where do the unemployed get their salaries?
>>73340592
>inb4 maternity leave
>says maternity leave
>ha i correctly guessed a good response to my bait so looks like i win
>>73344258
I like that you're actually debating and not being a screaming cunt in a tantrum.
So if it's not settled, why do you think you're correct? Is it working well in every wealthy nation not a good argument? Don't you think it would be bad for our society to have a third world underclass?
>>73344336
You're using the definition for classical liberalism and ignoring any other variations. I'm talking about social liberalism as is practiced in almost every modern and developed nation. Quit with the semantics and say something of substance or give up.
>>73344281
No because I'm not an engineer.
>>73344448
I thought you guys strayed from the immigration thing? Either way, your country is ranked near the top in many categories and you should be proud.
>>73344584
Either the government gives them welfare or the government gives them nothing and they are forced to either innovate or starve.
>>73344584
This is a new issue that we're going to really have to start dealing with in 10 years. There are still tons of jobs that aren't automated. Until then, we have to stay focused on how to keep people working on a wage that ensures our nation doesn't become a shithole.
>>73338227
fuck off back to wherever it is you came from faggot
>>73338339
How about stopping the flow of poorly educated immigrant labor by terminating (actually phasing out over 6 months for humanitarian reasons) all welfare programs tapped by illegal immigrants. If you do this, there will be MASS SELF DEPORTATION. Big business will have to raise wages to lure back to the work force the citizen poorly educated work force who "won't do those jobs". at the same time, Welfare must be revamped (and minimized)to stop the disincentives to work'. Welfare should be the LAST place one goes when all else fails, not a birthright. This is pie in the sky as the current system is a WIN/WIN for the Liberal Left and the Conservative Right. Liberal Left gets to pander to the poor for votes (and import more voters) and the right gets low cost labor increasing their profit margin. Who is screwed. The middle class primarily. The poor are also screwed as the current welfare system is a farming system to maintain a nice passive, compliant population dependent on government handouts.
>>73344892
I agree anon.
>>73344892
I believe that free money should not be an option unless you're very sick, injured or just got laid off recently. We need to stop wasting money paying people for dong nothing. If anything, make them build bridges and fix our roads or fuck anything that benefits the rest of us without being a net loss.
>>73344665
So would you agree that "Social Liberalism" is largely (possibly exclusevly) authoritarian by nature?
Also, in you OP you called yourself a liberal (no modifier) and I asked you a question based on that information, which you have yet to answer with anything other than "it's not that simple".
>>73344665
>why do you think you're correct?
Correct about what?
About my uneducated opinion that, if current trends continue, human labor should be phased out entirely within the next three or four centuries? That minimum wage should not be enforced so that we can continue driving down prices? That we should let the poor and the useless end of the genepool starve to make the population more manageable?
All uneducated, third-world opinions matey.
All I'm really doing is getting you off your high horse and getting some real discussion going. You claim to be educated but so far you haven't said anything which proves that you are educated at all. You're just re-enforcing my irrational belief that college is indoctrination, not education.
>>73338227
Obvious shitpost is obvious.
>>73345217
It's not. I gave no modifier because in America, social liberals are referred to as liberals, and classical liberals are referred to as libertarians. I don't know where you place on the spectrum that this is news to you, I'm guessing that you're purposely being pedantic and arguing semantics to be a pain in the cunt.
Pooling public money for schools and hospitals is not authoritarian and is not referred to as authoritarian. Authoritarian is used to describe regimes that deny their people civil liberties, democracy and basic human rights.
>>73344665
It's not as bas as it in Sweden, Germany or so, but all of the rapefugees and other shitskins and niggers congreate and the capital and the surrounding areas. Pretty much same as London or Paris.
>We could have a utopia if we wanted one.
We could also be living in a computer simulation
>>73345578
Well, enjoy your stellar education system, healthcare and GDP per capita while it lasts.
>>73345560
>basic human rights
>>73344173
>what's the threshold for the min. wage to be too low?
>and by what metric?
>he dodges the question three times
>asking for explanations is autistic
liberals shitpost IRL and on my /pol/. fuck me sideways
>>73344665
I assumed this to be true because of your original post but it is good to get confirmation.
You know why I knew it to be true? Because you are so certain your intellectual ideals would lead to a utopia.
Implementing a system of non-trivial complexity is a very humbling experience. No matter how good your initial design is shit will inevitably fuck up and go wrong. Very very rarely are your initial designs/thoughts even close to being an adequate solution.
This is because of the limit of human beings intellectually. It is very very difficult for us to encompass a whole system and what are the consequences of every action and requirement.
Now my experience is in software systems where the complexity is magnitudes smaller than that of managing a massive populous
Even if I grant you the ability to account for the innumerous issues that would occur and all the direct consequences of all actions taken to solve these issues there is no way you could predict the consequences of all the side effects of those actions the side effects of those consequences and so forth.
It is great you have some wonderful ideals but I guarantee you that when it comes to implementation they would not work as perfectly as you perceive.
You should be more humble in your approach to such problems
>>73345409
>You're just reinforcing** my irrational belief
Fuck I am retarded.
8/10 OP, I'm actually butthurt.
>>73345796
>what's the threshold for the min. wage to be too low?
It changes and depends on inflation, average wage, cost of living etc. There is no one hard and easy objective measure to determine what minimum wage is best. That's not how it works. Once again, you are stuck in very autistic black and white thought where everything needs to fit into simple methods of understanding. It's complex and dynamic. I genuinely think you place on the spectrum.
>>73345409
I think it's funny that you think people will just willingly starve. When people are hungry, they find a way to eat and it's going to involve taking from other people. Very poor people are a facet of unstable regions and nations anon. These are not nice place.
>>73345560
I'm arguing semantics for the reason I stated earlier; if you can control language, you control thougt.
You can scoff at that all you want, but read your last post. Your assigning a definition to the word "authoritarian" (and by extensuon "authority") based on feelings and perception, not the actual definition. The face of societies change dramatically because of this phenomenon.
>>73345925
Your argument could apply to literally anyone's political views.
>>73346104
>When people are hungry, they find a way to eat and it's going to involve taking from other people
What do you think is going to be my answer to that?
It should be very obvious.
>These are not nice place.
Wow that's really mindblowing. 10/10 would read again.
>>73346181
>Authoritarianism is a form of social organization characterized by submission to authority and thus usually opposed to individualism, liberalism, democracy, libertarianism and anarchism.
>Social liberalism, sometimes known as reform liberalism, is a political ideology that seeks to find a balance between individual liberty and social justice.
>Social liberalism is different from classical liberalism: it thinks the state should address economic and social issues.
Classical liberalism is a political ideology and a branch of liberalism which advocates civil liberties and political freedom with representative democracy under the rule of law and emphasizes economic freedom. Classical liberalism developed in the 19th century in Europe and the United States.
>>73346243
I guess you're just okay with living in your crime ridden shithole, but I want more than that and most Americans would not want to live in a country as shitty as yours.
>>73346190
not really seeing as conservative politics is about preserving what works
You are the one claiming the current system sucks and needs to be totally changed
I am trying to help you understand that it is not as easy as an undertaking as you perceive
>>73346001
>minimum wage changes with cost of living and averages
>unironically proposes this is a thing
>people who don't agree with my basic misunderstandings of economic metrics means other people are autistic
I can't deal with this wilful ignorance.
>>73338227
>>73338473
>those countries
Japan / China / SK are conservative and the other countries got rich with conservative values you fucking sperg.
>>73346480
I bet you're no stranger to being unable to deal with things my autistic friend.
>>73346455
Not only has social liberalism historically been implemented in America for several of our most prosperous decades, but in the context of this board, alt-right conservatism has not been tried in America.
>>73338227
>educated liberal
there's your problem. you gotta try this not givnin' a fuck stuff once in a while, drop your labels, watch the other squirm like salted slugs, it's fantastic for kicks. also I would totally motorboat that frau in your pic, you have good taste.
Well fuckstains this has been fun and all but I have people to go out with. Enjoy your /r9k/ politically flavored circlejerk.
>>73338227
An industrialized utopia and non-whites are mutually exclusive, prove me wrong.
>>73338531
>I think there are certain nations on Earth that already qualify as a kind of utopia
what the fuck. do you know what a utopia is?
human society has tons of potential to increase its standard of living. we are still far from being close as possible to a utopia
>I'm an educated liberal who believes in the importance of leftist/liberal ideas, and why they are important for America.
talk about redundancy lol
>>73346722
Thank you, Hannah Ferguson if you want more.
>>73346779
The united states
Farewell bros.
>>73346769
>spout autism
>''well looks like i win nerds''
never change lefty
>>73346833
Exactly. The niggerless parts of the US in the past were utopia, but after shitskins were introduced en masse it quickly fell apart.
>>73346335
A fair post but using the political ideology definition of these words reinforces my point. All of these words have a base word not associated with an ideology, and not necessarily a fair or accutate reflection of the ideology they represent. For example, authoritarian behavior from "Social Liberals".
>>73338227
Kill yourself lefty.
>>73346833
>Thank you, Hannah Ferguson if you want more.
oh but i do bud, keep in mind i've got liquor running down my unoiled beard and have no qualms with shitposting to maximum with some racist shit, but in fact i'm a lonely man with too much energy to burn and constant exercise just isn't enough. I feel I represent a large minority of the demographic, even if it's a solid digit and not just a decimal.
welcome to /pol/
