Redpill me on Vietnam. How did the USA lose so badly, to the point of being embarrasing, even after going through with a draft and being a superpower. The stuff I read online just seem shady in how they describe it. Was this the original G.W. Bush with Iraq and Oil?
Hippies. Hippies is how we lost.
>>73332399
That's it?
>>73332333
>it ain't me starts playing
>>73332478
Yes that's it.
If America didn't pull out they would've ground and pounded the NVA forces. But you can't win a war if hippies dont want you to
>>73332567
Weren't they losing horribly from the start though?
>>73332567
I call a fallacy. To say that was all seems to leave out any other possible factors. What else contributed to the fall of South Vietnam? Wouldn't you say the tenacity of the NVA and the Viet Cong had a role in it? Are you implying otherwise?
>>73332333
>How did the USA lose so badly, to the point of being embarrasing, even after going through with a draft and being a superpower
We simply didn't, not in combat terms anyhow. That is to say, we utterly dominated in terms of combat with the North, to the point where they were willing to sign the Paris peace accords.
Where we failed, was when the Congress refused to honor the terms of the accords, which required that the U.S. would resupply the South Vietnamese with weaponry and such. This of course immanentized a Norther surge and lead to the fall of Saigon.
I'll catch a lot of flak from anti-Americans here despite the fact that this is well-recognized history, but so it goes.
All it took was a bit of backbone from our politicians and we would have won, and today South Vietnam would very possibly be of the same tier as South Korea. We and our allies were literally stabbed in the back by cowardly politicians on the homefront.
>>73332333
The South Vietnamese were terminally useless, much like the Iraqis.
Plus the American media gave the false impression that we were losing the war long before we actually started losing.
We won numerically.
The only way to have actually "won" the war was to never get into it, or literally kill the whole Vietnamese population.
We won that war. The Vietnamese are still reeling from that war
>>73332708
There was shit planning involved too. The military commanders thought they were fighting WW2, the body count policy, letting the politicians decide strategy etc. I'll pull back on my last statement now
>>73332333
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hqYGHZCJwk
>>73332868
Is that an ancient alien?
>Paris peace accords
After getting sucked into two Europoor wars you would think the US might balk at getting sucked into a third, especially in a jungle and against shovel headed gooks. I guess it was all that new weaponry and some target practice more than a war but wasn't much fun for the participants in the elites war games.
>>73333093
>the body count policy, letting the politicians decide strategy
Wasn't that McNamara's doing ? Too narrow metrics of success led to quagmire ?
>>73332333
Restrictions on use of offensive power as well as lack of popular support.
>>73332333
Not invade the north. Fear of Russia and China.
>>73333812
>the US might balk at getting sucked into a third
The US did balk at it, our politicians didn't. And only balked later, after the damage had been done, and precisely when balking was the last thing you'd want to do because it would lead to the downfall of an ally.
Have some more of this freak.
>US
>lose so badly
o u
The US had fewer casualties and were making strides, military-wise. The Tet Offensive ruined the Communists -- who even admitted as much.
Anti-war sentiment swelling in the country is what caused the war to fail.
>>73332333
Conventionally they won but they simply couldn't conquer the territory effectively.
>>73332333
America is just not prepared/equipped/trained for guerrilla warfare as a modern form of warfare. Same thing happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>73332868
This. We won every major battle and once we began bombing Hanoi the NV sued us for peace. A year later we finished pulling out our troops. A year after that Nixon resigned. A year after that, the North reinvaded the south. Ford tried to get Congress to resupply and send more troops, Congress told him to fuck off. Those famous images you see of the embassy being evacuated happens three years after the war was over. After we won.
>>73332333
United States won every major combat engagement with the NVA in Vietnam.
There the Military question of Vietnam and the Political one.
At once they are completely seperate and inexorably tied together.
It is fatal to enter into a war without the desire to win it.
Hint: The problem wasn't manpower of firepower on the part of anti communist forces. The problem was that Vietnam isn't our country. Simple as that. We were outsiders from across the largest ocean on Earth.
What does it mean to "lose badly"? We lost a lot better than the winners won, who had their country wrecked for generations. We only lost money a soldiers, and those men were mostly volunteers. The stakes were always much lower for us. The survivors could always go back home to comfy American suburbia. Not an option for the natives.
>>73332333
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hqYGHZCJwk
Americans are shit tier at war.
lmao
>>73335197
Says the country that got its ass handed to it by a nascent, underequipped version of the country in question
The Vietnamese were brave fighters and we're willing to take massive casualties for decades, maybe even generations.
I know recent Vietnamese from Hanoi, they like the U.S. they would probably host a U.S. base to piss off their northern neighbor.
LRRP
learn about it
>>73337015
tet was everything they had in a last ditch effort
they had nothing left after that push
we found this out later
>>73332333
LBJ lies to get us in war. Democrats control congress and vote for war. LBJ so bad as CNC, everyone hates him, he doesn't even run for reelection. Dems run a "lets lose on purpose" candidate. Nixon easily wins. Democrats still control congress and vote to undeclare war and slow->halt military funding for war. US army eventually exits before they run out of ammo. Liberals happy that commies win and America lost. They spit on solders, call them baby killers, blame them for war, make movies showing them as monsters. Before war, voters trusted dems and repubs equally with national security. Afterwards rebubs +30 points.
>>73334714
>After we won
You just signed a peace treaty with your enemies and splited the country in two.
How can you call this a victory?
>>73332333
hippies
the South Vietnamese sucked balls and we weren't ready to do a full military occupation.
not totally dissimilar to Iraq.
>>73332868
body count doesn't mean shit unless you're planning to genocide a race
if you can end a war with no one dying, you really won
>>73341710
>if you kill your enemy, than they win
>>73332333
We won but the fifth columnist media reported our victories at losses causing people at home to call for a retreat (allowing north vietnam to retake control). Essentially, Walter Cronkite is a dirty communist faggot, and the liberals would never have allowed for us to set up a colonial-esque government on behalf of the natives (same story with Iraq and the rise of ISIS).
>>73332333
>How did the USA lose so badly, to the point of being embarrasing
t. has only seen vietnam war flicks
The US crushed the north Vietnamese military and the Vietcong. It was an overwhelming victory. Our causalities were incredibly small compared to theirs. The North signed a peace agreement and we left. Unfortunately the north reinvaded during the watergate scandal and the democrat controlled congress didn't want to send more troops to aid south Vietnam so they were conquered. Anyone who thinks we got our asses kicked is a retard. The reinvasion of south vietnam was a separate conflict that we werent involved in. It would be like saying Turkey got its ass kicked in ww2 because they were Germany's allies in ww1.
>>73332708
The K:D ratio was insane, something like 16:1. Problem was the only goal was to kill the enemy. The US would take over a hill, massacre everyone on there, then promptly leave only for the NVA to take it back without a fight. That aimlessness combined with the NVA in it for the long haul led to Americans back home getting tired of hearing about their kids getting killed in a country no one gave a shit about.
