Disagree with this man all you want, but you have to realize that his free college plan is what America desperately needs.
Every developed country has programs to help students afford the RIGHT to higher education, yet the United States are the only ones who force debt onto their progeny before they even have a chance to get started in life. Is this the mark of an advanced country? A world power?
Germany and several other eastern European countries even PAY students to attend college, because they realize how important it is in the modern world. You literally can't have a future without an education.
Why don't you support tuition-free higher education for all? Are you a backwards, uneducated Trump-supporter?
Why don't you want tuition free college?
A problem facing American colleges right now though is stupid people going to them and thinking they're smart which has only been breeding close-minded anti-intellectualism. If college were free it'd only get even worse.
Maybe it can be free as long as requirements to get into college become more strict to keep out the stupid people who just ruin everything.
>>73041128
>paying money for college when you can just google everything for free
>>73041128
This is most likely bait but I still think you bring up an important issue.
The value of a college degree is not only having the degree, but also that others don't have the degree. By just encouraging everyone and anyone to attend college for a degree, you're just diluting the pool of applicants for future jobs.
In addition, why do you think 1st gen immigrants from 3rd world countries are dominating the job market? It's because they don't have free college and they get done with their education in their early twenties and are able to develop themselves professionally in their new homes. This is why all the managers/bosses in countries with free college ed are all 3rd world immigrants.
>>73041512
Well just have strict HS scores for paid college. Win win
>>73041128
You have no idea how the economy works. Colleges are the most price-gouging motherfuckers, worse than hospitals and insurance companies, and you want to give them subsidies, and that'll make them think to lower the price? Besides that, even at the going rate, you could tax everyone at 100% and still not have enough to cover it. It's a pipe dream, cannot work. The money simply doesn't exist, and the printing press won't do the country any favors. All Bernie will end up doing is destroying civilization.
>>73041128
>$30 trillion in additional spending on Jew certificates is what America desperately needs.
>>73041512
"stupid" people also deserve a chance at higher education
you can't deny this right to an entire shakily defined demographic
>>73041549
>it says here you got your degree at google?
>>73041649
If this is true then why aren't countries like Sweden and Germany swamped in unemployment?
>>73041710
>it says here you got your degree at the same shitty state-standard college as everyone else who applied for this job, why did you waste your time and effort on it?
>>73041833
Because the employer will just bin your resume if you don't have the degree
Degrees are becoming less relevant every day
poor people can go to college for free
rich people have no issues paying for college
if you're middle class, then your ass better start getting some scholarships and not be a lazy fuck in high school
>>73041710
>not making people compete to use modern technology to provide the cheapest and highest quality possible education
>supercharging public funds into ultracorrupt outdated institutions
>voting for a communist Jew because of a fucking bird
>needing 101% of the remaining delegates to win
>>73041128
All of these other countries import shitskins and have a lower standard of living and much, much higher taxes. They are also nowhere near as relatively powerful as the US, economically or otherwise. Free shit lmao doesn't work and never has. It is defficient at best.
>Why don't you want tuition free college?
Why don't you want price-free food?
Why don't you want insurance-free cars?
Why don't you want payback-free loans?
Why don't you want consequence-free shit?
Kill yourself nigger.
>>73041128
>Do good in High School
>Apply for scholarships
>Get scholarships
>Get college paid for
Alternatively,
>Don't do good in High School
>Enlist
>Do service
>Get GI Bill
>Go back to school
Shit, let's start handing out more participation trophies while we're at it.
>>73041128
>Germany and several other eastern European countries even PAY students to attend college
Thats not right. It's still a privilege. People from poor households get a few shekels as BaföG, Begabtenfördergeld, but it's not enough to fund college. Most of them get a job after school.
I think what's fucking stupid is school in general
Let's just all agree to work on things that need to be made to live and then everyone gets free shit
Learning things is for idiots
Everyone in this thread is like 800 years behind my thinking
We need to hurry up make robots that do everything even repair themselves then make school obsolete after
So everyone can get drunk get fat and have sex all day without there ever being a worry or a president
Also kill all blacks
>>73041833
Are you saying getting a degree at an actual institution is the same as learning from the Internet? Does learning from the Internet give you a document stating your worthiness to work in a given field?
>>73041921
Do you have any evidence? A poll? Anything peer-reviewed? Or is this all hearsay?
>>73041939
source
>>73041966
>making people compete to use modern technology
Are you saying it's a good idea to turn the job market into a gladiator match?
>>73041992
>US
>economically powerful
All that debt means nothing right?
>>73042000
So the only way you should get to college is to come from a good high school with supporting parents who have the money for any resources you may need to pass?
>>73042076
Higher education is a right.
tuition is high because colleges know the government will hand out large federal loans to students.
if the federal government capped out at like $1000 or something, you'd be damn sure tuition goes down.
>>73041128
Free college is only okay if you cut out all the useless majors. Taxpayer money should never be used to fund gender studies degrees.
>>73041128
Europa has just started to change colors.
Make this thread in 10 years when their sluggish economies try to survive under the weight of foreign nationals using their welfare systems and not paying taxes.
A homogenous community of respectable individuals with a sense of civic duty could survive in a progressive utopia where everyone helps the impoverished keep afloat. Where all the citizens pool their money together and invest it towards the future, in the education of everyone's children.
Those days are dead. Gone. The western world is no longer filled with happy neighbors. No one comes knocking asking to borrow a cup of sugar.
>>73042210
It's the same for surgeries
Everything is the democrats fault
>>73041128
>Let's oversaturate the market with college degrees
Good idea!
>>73041128
There's no reason to educate entitled natives when I can bring over Pajeet and Wing Ching Chong for half of a decent wage. Americans should be happy to make minimum wage in the service sector, they don't need a degree for that either.
t. job creator
>>73042210
How do you know that this scenario will play out?
>>73042214
And how do you define a "useless major"? Should a student's worth only be defined by what they can contribute to society in the form of industry?
Universities are places of education and higher thinking, not factories to churn out doctors and engineers indefinitely.
>>73042271
Where do you get this information that European economies will suffer purely because of their willingness to freely educate the populace?
>>73042293
Is an oversaturated job market the reason European countries, with their free college programs, are beating the U.S. in every way?
>>73041710
>"stupid" people also deserve a chance at higher education
>you can't deny this right to an entire shakily defined demographic
Which is why colleges should be more strict about entrance and maintaining high grades to attend. They'll easily filter out the people who really aren't serious about being there. Also expand and make stricter general education requirements so people can't just fudge their way through them to get to their desired field without getting a well rounded education to make sure they have as much exposure to differing opinions as much as possible.
>>73042421
>European countries, with their free college programs, are beating the U.S. in every way
In what, for example?
>>73042293
> misrepresents opponents argument as an absurd oversimplification, demonstrating lack of critical thinking ability
> all in the name of advocating for less education
>>73042421
"College" here is free, but that is because a) it actually takes some effort to get acess to it, and b) many, even if they have an "Abitur" (which allows you to study at University), choose an apprenticeship instead.
>>73041512
Hey once I got to college, I realized I wasn't that smart at all. Just an average student, got good grades in high school, but later to realize they only prepared for me a test. Took me a while to accept I'm just an average student. I'm okay with that.
>>73042565
>"all in the name of advocating for less education"
>misrepresents opponents argument as an absurd oversimplification, demonstrating lack of critical thinking ability
>>73042421
>Is an oversaturated job market the reason European countries, with their free college programs, are beating the U.S. in every way?
Beating the US in what exactly? You realize US median income is higher than all EU countries excepting oil-paradise Norway, micro-libertarian state Luxembourg and Switzerland?
You realize 9 out of the 10 biggest companies of the world are American?
You realize your universities rank way higher than any European free university due to the competitive nature, and that your degrees are actually worth something unless like in Europe where thousands of young people show their meme degrees at McDonalds HR?
In what exactly is EU beating the US?
>>73041128
>>73041128
I stopped reading at free
Sorry for your mental state
>>73042650
And then you came here forever
>>73042429
>professor doesn't like you
>fail
>get kicked out
Guess you're fucked now since you a degree is crucial to surviving nowadays.
>>73042485
Jobs, standard of living, general happiness of the populace, average IQ, etc. All by-products of higher education.
>>73041128
Hmm, here's my theory OP, you (and people like you) are a spoiled NEET with no relativism and a victim mentality that's frightened of work.
Here's my advice though. Move to Illinois and suck an Irish dick. You can get a public union job and never work again for ridiculous money.
Tl;dr all Bernie would accomplish is swelling our already bloated and vile bureaucracy to a lethal level.
>>73041128
I'm a Bernie supporter but his education plan isn't my favorite.
I have a suspicion that federal funding for all colleges around the country would just turn them into standardized test mills like the high schools already are. That's not real education, that's Saudi Arabia-tier "education".
>>73042753
>Jobs, standard of living, general happiness of the populace, average IQ, etc. All by-products of higher education.
>Implying
Kill yourself, OP.
Those degrees are fucking worthless if there are no jobs for them to fill.
>Graduate with physics PhD, 31, fell to his death from block of flats after taking job in call centre he was over-qualified for
Literally have people killing themselves, we don't need more fucking free shit.
You should vote Bernie into office. He seems like he could do a lot of good for america.
>>73042872
That graph makes no sense.
>>73042872
Now how many of those degree-holders are swamped in debt that they will never get out of?
>>73042910
>a man with a psychological disorder shows that free education is a bad idea
>>73042678
Saying you want to avoid "oversaturating the market" with college degrees implies that you think there should be less people with college degrees. You think people should be less educated. I shouldn't need to explain your own argument to you.
>>73041128
>his free college plan is what America desperately needs.
So now I am forced by the point of a gun to pay for useless women's studies "degrees" that contribute to unemployment?
College used to be super cheap in the 1950s and 1960s before the government started providing student loans.
Why don't you kill yourself?
If people get to have their loans paid off for college than I want my house paid off.
And my car
>>73041128
>is what America desperately needs.
Kek no you don't.
What you need is to brutally cut down on the degrees that are available - there is just so much useless shit you can study in the US that has zero real life application.
If you want to make your current system free, look at tax rates in Germany for example where the tax burden is around 50% and think again if you really want that.
>>73042748
Pretty much, I just want to be an average programmer now. Nothing too special, small group of programmers just working on something. That's a dream for me.
Though Trump gave me some inspiration on failure, to not give up and pick yourself right back up.
>>73041128
Do you know why companies ask you to have a bachelors degree to sell industrial kitchen supplies? Its because we let illiterate retards graduate from high school. A high school diploma is worthless on the job market.
Now you want to give these assholes (((free))) college? Fuck off and die.
>>73042973
>Now how many of those degree-holders are swamped in debt that they will never get out of?
That wasn`t your point though. Higher education isn`t responsible for "jobs, standart of living general happines of te populace, average IQ, etc."
But to answer your question: Here? no one. In Burgerland? Lol I dunno
College should be free, but college admission standards need to go way up. Require higher GPAs, select for more extracurricular involvement, etc.
Speaking of GPA, Common Core ended up completely fucked, but fundamentally speaking, a national base standard for high school education needs to be enforced. An A in Virginia is not the same as an A in Arkansas.
High school curriculums need to be changed to reflect the goals of a free-college education system. Drop calculus and teach things like home finance, entrepreneurship, welding, auto body, office skills, etc. so kids don't take on tens of thousands in debt for this delusion that you're dead in the water if you don't have a degree.
>>73042753
>>professor doesn't like you
>>fail
>>get kicked out
>Guess you're fucked now since you a degree is crucial to surviving nowadays.
With stricter academic requirements would come with the proper oversight, of course. Professors couldn't just fail anyone they want and get them kicked out. In fact, more oversight is already needed to keep out bad teachers who abuse their privileges.
>>73042753
>crucial to survival
TRADE.SCHOOL.
Fuck you freeloader
>>73042753
>Jobs
In reality it's worse than pic related.
>standard of living
Not dependant on university graduates.
>general happiness of the populace
Not dependant on university graduates, also more educated people tend to be unhappier:
http://www.news.uwa.edu.au/201311046208/research/why-aren-t-better-educated-people-happier
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/why-so-many-smart-people-arent-happy/479832/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3012726/Being-highly-educated-DOESN-T-make-happier-dropout-study-reveals.html
>average IQ
That's because Europe has less shitskins than the US.
>All by-products of higher education.
Higher education doesn't magically create these things, and flushing down money down the higher education toilet when there are already highly educated people out there who can't get into positions where that higher education pays off, is a stupid idea.
>>73041128
You need to regulate the cost of university before you can make it free.
A public college in Germany isn't $24k USD a year.
>>73043006
source
>>73043032
again, universities are places of higher thinking and education, not factories whose sole purpose is to churn out more faceless workers.
also, is a higher tax rate not worth all the benefits free higher education provides?
>>73041128
yeah maybe
but we have a much greater issue here, with people learning trade skills being paid the same amount as checkout chicks, plus having to pay for all their own tools, training, etc.
it's grossly unfair that plumbers, builders, tilers, electricians, mechanics, and everything in between, at the end of the day, have less disposable income than the floor manager of a supermarket for considerably more work, hours and risk.
cheap tertiary education is okay, but what happens when the pull factor of a (nearly) free bachelors degree meets the push factor of trade skills being so unattractive?
>>73043021
If your house collapsed and your car came without an engine when the real estate agent and the car salesman promised they were the best value possible and you'd be in trouble if you didn't buy right away, you would be entitled to your money back.
That's the state of college degrees right now.
Free college = more people go to college
More people in college = higher demand for instructors, textbooks, on-campus housing, school fees, etc.
More of these necessities means colleges have to spend money which means they need to increase tuition to cover the cost. This is nice short-term, not good long-term.
India had a food shortage few years ago which lead to inflation. So the government passed an Act that stockpiled food domestically for their people. They would cover the cost of paying farmers to grow food for everyone. Prices of goods and food went down but the price for labor of farmers went up because the demand for farming was very high and the state government had to bend over backwards paying them (leading to a huge debt) because those farmers were the ones who were providing the food for India.
>>73041128
People who think free college automatically think colleges stuffed full of idiots.
Free doesn't mean qualified.
If Trump were smart he'd steal Bernie's positions and outflank Hillary
>>73042753
>a degree is crucial to survive
fucking lol. liberal arts majors and code monkeys actually believe this.
go work construction or another trade. 100k a year is easily attainable in these careers if you're intelligent.
>>73043205
>again, universities are places of higher thinking and education,
So you want people to subsidize your "higher thinking" even though it has no useful application to people who are subsidizing it.
Another gibsmedat thread.
>>73042650
>I'm just an average student
>I'm okay with that
You are exactly the type of person who shouldn't be in college
>>73043205
>also, is a higher tax rate not worth all the benefits free higher education provides?
Which are? And don`t talk about higher chance for jobs, that just means that the US is unable to build up qualified apprenticeship programms, which would fix that problem at least.
>>73043285
Have you ever been to a state college where the rate of acceptance is over 75-80%? It is literally full of dumbasses.
Daily reminder a FREE MARKET in college education would force the price down to levels where your parents were able to work a summer job to pay for their degree.
FUCK the state, seriously,
I hope bernie fucking dies.
>>73043110
The A in arkansas is probably better.
Midwestern and Plains highschools are really good. A byproduct of being 90% white.
>>73041128
Free college funds that will mostly go to majors like Gender Studies anyways. kek'd
What the USA needs is for people to get their fucking act together.
>>73043021
Yeah, a college degree is the same thing as a car or a house for all intents and purposes. Nice brain you have there. Way to think.
>>73041128
Government interference made college expensive in the first place. Compare a year at a high school's private school, and a year at an average college. Not much more is being spent on education, but it's thousands more. Ever notice that a book that costs 4 dollars to print costs a student $180?
The same thing happened to health care. 5 dollar asprins.
>>73043488
>Arkansas
>90% white
Maybe if you live in the rice fields.
Little Rock and Fayetteville are nigger central.
Things that might...might make free college a worthwhile investment.
>eliminate affirmative action
>only make it free for community colleges, trade schools, and maybe some state universities
>only for STEM
>>73043021
Your car and house can be repossessed. The shit you learned in college (or lack thereof) can't.
>>73041128
>Disagree with this man all you want, but you have to realize that his free college plan is what America desperately needs.
No. What America desperately needs is thinning the crowd rushing into college.
Not randomly, of course. Rather by ability. You need to sort out the dumbasses, the "I'm still figuring out my life" tards, the "college means a good job, no matter what course, right?" delusions. The massively inflated "social sciences".
If you want to make college affordable, promote and improve the publically owned colleges. But the free ride - by direct funding, by guaranteed loans, doesn't matter - for private colleges needs to end, right now. Profit-oriented colleges will always hunger for more, no matter how much you shove down their throats, tuitions will steadily continue to go up so long as there's guaranteed cashflow.
And then there's the huge bottom tier of colleges, that don't offer much of an education, that don't offer a really valuable degree, but that still take all this guaranteed money and in return devalue degrees as a whole because they're just a glorified mixture of a diploma mill and sheltered dorms.
Raise the value of degrees by only permitting the valuable ones to survive, promote the trades for the rest. The market for college graduates in most fields is saturated, the graduation rate in the rest is sufficient.
>>73043596
>Let's get everyone into STEM, that totally won`t let to oversaturation
That`s not how this works.
>>73043577
>Ever notice that a book that costs 4 dollars to print costs a student $180?
And you think that's because of government interference, not because publishers want to see a profit?
Universities are marxism factories, of course socialists will want more people "learning" in them.
>>73041128
My collage accepts almost anyone and its free but 60% lose a year for failing first math test and then they have to pay it
>>73043703
>Universities are marxism factories, of course socialists will want more people "learning" in them.
this desu senpai
>>73043703
yea who needs doctors XDDDD
>>73043971
>you're not a doctor unless you learn about marxism
this is why universities are (mostly) a joke.
>>73043110
So basically you are saying the government should pick and choose which students they allow into their state-funded universities?
Ya, there is no real problems here. And as a single white man, I'm sure you will always have equal footing with others when it comes to admission to the universities of you, or your childrens, choosing. There will definitely not be rolls and rolls of trans-nigger, native-American, pansexuals on the government-mandated list in line before you. I mean, we all know the federal government would never take place in active discrimination like that, amirite?
>a national base standard for high school education needs to be enforced
How fucking old are you?
>>73041665
That's literally what we have right fucking now. They're called academic scholarships
>>73043005
>Saying you want to avoid "oversaturating the market" with college degrees implies that you think there should be less people with college degrees.
Wrong, that just means I don't want more while the market has no need of them as it's currently the case.
>>73042565
>misrepresents opponents argument as an absurd oversimplification, demonstrating lack of critical thinking ability
>>73041128
Sending everyone to college will only further devalue the degree and the kids will spend 4 years learning absolutely nothing of value
The bachelor's is basically the new highschool diploma as it is
Why do we need to make this even worse?
>>73043971
95% of students take on a non STEM major
>>73041128
You know the UK also offer student loans, right?
As do al developed nations
>>73044808
And the ones that take STEM are faced with outsourcing and H1B visas. Those are the problems we need to focus on, not "free" college. The market doesn't need more cab drivers with Master's degree.
>>73041128
Why would government or company spend money to educate locals when it's a lot cheaper to find an immigrant with required skills?
But /pol/ will still defend current system, despite the fact, that it facilitates population replacement in America.
Free education is not a right, but it's good for nation.
>>73041128
okay fagtron lets do basic math
avg year of low end college costs around 10k for a workable degree
number of years for degree: 4
number of americans between the age of 18-25: 25,000,000
multiple those together and you get a charming number of 1 trillion dollar in taxpayer money.
>>73045429
>good for nation.
>russia
lmao
you idiots can say higher education is a right all you want, But we literally live in an age where you can just go on to the fucking internet and self Educate. A degree isn't a right and certainly isn't proof of intelligence, it is simply the job markets way of verifying you have a degree of knowledge in on area without having to PROVE it.
In short, read a book nigger
>>73041921
lol maybe in the shitty industry you're trapped in
>>73043442
eh
Schools are pretty free market
Plenty of cheaper schools to go to
Everyone wants to go to a fancy college or whatever, and those jews can charge whatever price they wish.
>implying higher education is a right
Nah.
K-12 is. Higher education is optional.
>>73042184
>All that debt means nothing right?
Yes actually
>>73046302
>Schools are pretty free market
but they really aren't
K-12 is monopolized by the state and college/uni is highly controlled by the state still
they are the REASON tuition is so expensive
>>73045586
Free education in america would be great for both us and them.
Because I don't want to pay for education for people that will work in US. And americans are apparently not too happy to work in fast food chains or stay unemployed, because they are in disadvantage when it comes to education.
>>73046463
higher education is a right in that it is necessary for the pursuit of happiness
>>73041128
Recycling tools for cheaper trade school job placement programs would be more beneficial than an influx of people with typical college degrees.
>>73045714
Reading is a poor substitute for mentor and can't compensate lack of equipment.
Go on, try to become a surgeon by reading books on the internet.
>>73041128
I don't need their help and you're a subhuman so why would I pay more taxes for you to drop out of college?
DEPEND ON
N O M A N
O
M
A
N
Here's the thing about Bernie. The man had some serious ideals. He had a real progressive range and he excelled in any subject. He wrote brilliant editorials. And his stage presence was only matched by FDR. Seriously, watch him campaign in Vermont with Vampire Weekend and then watch a video of FDR rallies. We had better thank our lucky stars Bernie didn't go into music or he would have taken over the world. But Bernbros as a whole had a brilliant dynamic. It wasn't just the Bernie phone bankers. They all made huge creative contributions to what made his campaign what it is. Yes, Sanders wrote all his speeches, but redditors wrote all his praise, TYT broadcast great info, and leftypol made great memes. Other candidates like Hillary for instance were not like that. Hillary's camp was basically just the old "she’s a woman" ladies. Bernie's camp was this perfect storm of legendary talent, and Bernie was the face of it all, the delicious cherry on top of an already delicious sundae. He was the ambassador that allowed the amazing talent of combo that was Bernbros to be brought into our lives. He was the prism that focused the lazer beams from the brains of redditors, TYT, leftypol and amplified them until they were powerful enough to blow our money out through our wallets, I admit, out of our sheer passion. Yes, he was the most incredible politician who ever lived, hands down.
>>73046742
so what was the pursuit of happiness before college in the United States?
>>73046919
>He was the prism that focused the lazer beams from the brains of redditors, TYT, leftypol and amplified them until they were powerful enough to blow our money out through our wallets
HAHAHAHAHHAHA
Leftypol completely BLOWN THE FUCK OUT
>getting cucked by someone that wants to raise your taxes and enslave you
lmao
How cucked can you get?
>>73046742
>the pursuit of happiness
Delusions anon. Working up the chain =/= happiness.
I've been there, done that. If you think high stress is happiness then whatever. It's fucking miserable.
You do not need college to be happy.
>>73046969
Obviously it didn't involve college, but since nowadays a degree is practically necessary for a good career (i.e. not living in poverty i.e. happiness), it makes sense to classify a degree as a basic human right. You know that the job climate has changed. Stop playing the fool.
>>73041128
It's true. This man could do marvellous things if he's elected. But unfortunately somebody has to pay for it and I'm 99% sure it would come from military budget cuts.
Do we want America to be just like everyother country? Or do we want, scratch that, need them to be the defenders of earth? We all know that the aliens/demons are coming in the final battle of earth, the second coming, Jesus returns. Let us pray that the Americans are still the worlds military power when that day comes
