What happened to the /pol/ that valued limited government, free trade, free markets and open borders?
>>72932029
You mean that small minority of libertarians?
>>72932029
>>72932029
>open borders
>>72932029
The open borders idea was exposed as the complete shitshow that itis.
the idiots here think a free society will be overrun with degenerates looking for gibs
little do they realize that the high cost of living in high IQ societies will keep all the degenerates away
>>72932151
>>72932175
Having closed borders is authoritarian and violates the non-aggression principle.
>>72932122
Kek
>>72932029
I was never for open borders you faggot
>>72932175
Open borders are fine if:
There's no handouts
Population can stand ground/castle doctrine.
>>72932249
>little do they realize that the high cost of living in high IQ societies will keep all the degenerates away
So when do libertarians leave?
Free trade and free markets are just as, if not more shitty than open boarders
>>72932299
It also leads to your country to turning into a crime ridden Mexico 2.0
>>72932299
Then call me Chairman Mao. Closed borders are the only way forward.
We were never for open borders
libertarians failed to realize that sending all the jobs overseas and importing masses of illegals really pisses people off and other wise destroys the country
>>72932490
I think your confusing Libertarians with Liberals.
>>72932490
No, that's stupid. The jobs leave because taxes are stupid high. You don't want to pay for nigger's unemployment and other shit programs anymore than the capitalists do.
>>72932029
I consider myself mostly libertarian minus the open borders.
Don't ignore all the good points because of some viewpoints.
the political situation in sweden is a fucking mess, the only ones who raises their voices are the left femenists and cucks, the left has run our country into the fucking sink and then some..
>>72932662
Libertarians adopt most the same ideals of liberals for different reasons
>open borders
>outsourcing
hell libertarians are even fine with wall street raping the economy because "muh free market"
>>72932673
>jobs leave because taxes are stupid high
kek
no it's because wages are too high in the west since we have a nice standard of living.
They would rather 3rd worlders in sweatshops build everything for ten cents an hour.
You libertarians are so fucking retarded you don't even understand 'why' outsourcing happens.
>>72932726
so you're for outsourcing and not regulating business?
Also government spending is actually good for the economy. Do you like all that public infrastructure, defense, etc you have?
Just about everything to do with libertarianism is so fucking dumb. They live in a society that is good because of government spending on public infrastructure, roads, etc then they shit on it and think some private company that will price gouge them will make things "cheaper"
>>72932029
Nigga please. Even the libertarian faction of /pol/ was never for open borders.
Shit, even the ancap faction of /pol/ was split on the issue of open borders.
>>72932915
>muh roads
>>72932029
They all moved to Somalia where they enjoy society free of government.
>>72932956
enjoy your monopolies, retard
>>72932029
No candidate left that represents our views except those of the libertarian party that can't win.
Right now Trump wins the nomination, the statist natsocs and reactionaries that have always been here have the catalyst needed and have coagulated.
Smart libertarians are realising that only White people actually care about reduced government intervention.
All other races love big gubmint
>>72932029
Open borders? You mean like letting in third-world socialists so they can swamp you in a generation and take over?
Seems self-defeating.
>>72933037
>implying the gubbernmints isn't a one big monopoly
>>72932814
Ok, yeah that's fine. the minimum wage as well.
But to say it's got nothing to do with corporate taxes et al, is retarded. If it had nothing to do with tax rate, taxhavens wouldn't exist.
Government interference in general is the root cause.
>>72932029
We've moved on to brighter, better boards.
But we're still lurking, watching, waiting.
>>72932029
>open borders
No one ever wanted this.
>free markets
Everyone still wants this.
>free trade
Only if it's beneficial to our country
>limited government
We still want this
>>72932490
>libertarian paradise
>incredibly low or non existent tax rates
>removal of regulation and barriers to entry
>one of the hardest working, non third world iq populations in the world
>implying corporations would want to set up shop anywhere else in the world
>>72932299
NAP is a jewish invention and belongs to the jewish anarcho-capitalist ideology.
It has absolutely nothing to do with actual libertarianism.
And it's retarded as fuck too, basically ignores human nature. It's designed by jews to trick goyim into being easy suckers while they fuck them over.
>>72932029
Libertarianism isn't a philosophically (nor logically nor empirically) sound doctrine. Simple as that.
>>72933037
Governments are the reason monopolies exist you retard
>>72933097
Considering your flag, the fact that the majority of the population here is white and we're in the mess we are in, and the fact that I'm brown and libertarian; I'd have to say well memed.
>>72932029
>limited government
yep
>free trade
yep
>free markets
yep
>open borders
fuck off globalist shit head
>>72932249
Bullshit. We could rollback welfare overnight and the third worlders would still come because of the high level of civilization, low crime rates, and lust for white people, not to mention bargaining power for low-skilled jobs. The gibs is just icing on the cake.
Libertarians are well-meaning but suicidal idiots.
>>72932029
I turned into a monarchist.
>>72932029
>open borders
Not even when I was a total libcuck
>>72932299
>the state is forcing you to accept foreigners
sounds authoritarian to me
>>72933297
>>72933121
government uses progressive taxation to make public goods cheaper to access so average people don't have to spend everything they have just to drive to work in the morning.
Libertarians want to increase the debt burned on the working class by giving monopolies to private companies so they can price gouge on access to public goods (utilities, infrastructure, etc) They never think two steps ahead they just assume "hurrr banning all government=good"
>>72933139
>corporate taxes
oh that's so sad that corporations that get to benefit from doing business in a nice society have to pay for it
>>72933250
libertarians world= comapnies own everything you have to pay a monopoly prices to use anything at all
this is why libertarians are so fucking stupid they can't think two steps ahead to when they can't access public infrastructure or utilities without paying a monopoly price for it
>>72933297
monopolies are a natural result of owning land/ natural resources Do I get to use your house whenever I want to? Fuck no.
again libertairans are too retarded to figure out something so basic
>>72933328
You truly are the exception the proves the rule
What you don't understand is the following: Having police isn't by definition authoritarian, if it's the will of the people and is governed be laws. However, REMOVING police (or borders or anything) just because your ideology says so, is fucking Stalinist.
>>72933345
If the third worlder does your job more efficiently than you do and obeys the law, then maybe you're the real shitter gibs.
>low crime rates
Kind of hard to have when you have a legal system that has a law and rule for every god dam thing under the sun.
Libertarian society through its natural tendency for competition and efficiency would likely become the smartest, wealthiest, most alpha country the world has ever seen. And I know that sounds like a silly platitude but you know it's true. Competition breeds success. It's what made this country the best country in the world and it would do it again. Plus, the dog eat dog nature would naturally cull failure and redundant humans out. A lot of Americans are redundant and useless. So is the rest of the world though...
Wasn't it rothbard himself who said the police need to be unleashed and give the wood shampoo to leftists
>>72933703
>Libertarian society through its natural tendency for competition and efficiency would likely become the smartest, wealthiest, most alpha country
It will lead to monarchism/feudalism where you get to be a serf
libertarians are so fucking dumb
>>72933501
Monopolies are a result of government barrier to entry and protectionism
You dumb fuck
>>72933707
But real-life libertarians have only existed in fascist states, like Chile and Singapore.
>>72933501
>government uses progressive taxation to make public goods cheaper to access so average people don't have to spend everything they have just to drive to work in the morning.
Never works out. The rich are smart enough to evade taxes by loop holes, which are made specifically by close ties to the policymakers. To add to that there is no competition, no necessity to improve things and no corrupt, incompetent people are never fired from the job.
>Libertarians want to increase the debt burned on the working class by giving monopolies to private companies so they can price gouge on access to public goods (utilities, infrastructure, etc) They never think two steps ahead they just assume "hurrr banning all government=good"
Only when banks/govt. colludes with private businesses, things go wrong. One of the key aspect of privatisation is removing monopolies. Unfair govt. intervention to push policies for big companies leads to monopolies being created.
Since I'm forced to pay 75% of my income to the state, I would like for that money to be used on something beneficial to society. As of now, 50% of the tax money is spent on neets and niggers looking for a handout.
But people don't seem to realize that welfare immigration, unlimited amounts of refugees and a national welfare state don't mix.
Most lefties work in public sector, and somehow they don't realize that they're also paid by the tax payers.
>>72933501
Those monopolies you're talking about exist today because of government collusion.
I'm a bit more pragmatic and would advocate putting things in place to curb monopolization if it were to occur by nature of the free market because the oligarchy of a monopoly would in effect be a worse government. However, we don't know if that would even be the case and as it is now, you have government created monopolies and too big to fail banks.
>>72932029
"limited government" is now code for
>sorry you'll never get your pension, your payments are redistributed for refugees; sorry you got robbed but we don't have enough forces to stop refugees from killing each other AND to protect you
"free trade" is now code for
>let our lobbyists talk to your lobbyists behind closed doors about how we can best exploit you
"free market" is now code for
>let's move our jobs to China, let's sell out our know-how to China through forced joint-ventures, or let's at least not complain when they produce counterfeit
"open borders" is now code for
>I don't have to explain this one
Libertarian ideals were always theoretical and meant for the perfect society, just like concepts like free health insurance and welfare and asylum. No one bothered to think about what liberals would do once they hijack those noble buzzwords.
>>72932029
>open borders
Shitty b8
>>72933797
no retard land is a natural monopoly
again libertarians are too dumb to figure out the simplest shit.
>>72933834
>Never works out.
It's the basis of the modern first world
holy shit libertarians are so fucking stupid
>rich are smart enough to evade taxes by loop holes
>they avoid some taxes therefore they should not be taxed
again libertarians are too dumb to live
>Only when banks/govt. colludes with private businesses,
For fuck's sake land is a natural monopoly moron, have you ever heard of feudalism?
>>72933501
Oh you're one of these retards.
Alright, whatever.
>>72933913
>Those monopolies you're talking about exist today because of government collusion.
No moron, land is a natural monopoly no government required.
Holy shit I hate libertarians so much.
>>72933794
I would love for you to explain this progression.
>>72933996
>libertarians think common sense is b8
enjoy your life as a serf
>>72933996
The epitome of Libertarian "argumentation". Next is the firing squad for dissenters, out of love for freedom ofc.
>>72932915
That bullshit argument. Why would jobs outsource? Any businessman with a fuckin brain would set up shop in a libertarian state, remember everything in the god damn world being made in hong kong?
Public infastructure and defense, well you've made a hell of a case for some state and local taxes, as well as a stagering 1/4 of federal spending.
Let companies price gouge, who cares. If you go around asking for $500/hr from every job you apply for, who loses, you or the businesses? You, because you're a fucking idiot who doesn't understand the parts of economics that are so basic, they're practically just human nature.
>>72934053
>wealth concentrated in a few hands
>land all owned by the wealthy
>no political representation for the people
congrats you're now in feudalism have fun slaving away for a king.
>>72934022
>land is a natural monopoly
How does one acquire a monopoly on the land?
>>72934110
>Any businessman with a fuckin brain would set up shop in a libertarian state,
A real libertarian state with no government ownership/spending is just going to end up as a monarchy anyway.
>>72932029
>thinks libertarianism promotes free trade in the way it's been implemented and open borders to mean we should let millions of undocumented people cross into the country
>>72934133
by owning the land
do I get to use your house? No you have a monopoly on it.
If you privately own anything remotely important you get to price gouge on it
see: Telecom industry in Mexico.
>>72934131
>wealth concentrated in a few hands
That's our current trajectory
>land all owned by the wealthy
you mean like how wealthy people can and do buy up property and land and in some very very very rare cases use the land to construct property for sale to lower class individuals?
>no political representation for the people
You mean anarchy? Or do you mean lobbying like our current system?
>>72933981
You should have a look at India's economy. That is what happens when you are authoritarian socialist. We have a dual economy. Half is state controlled, the other half is privatised. The privatised economy is booming, while the govt. owned one is doing horrible.
Rich have to pay almost 300% more tax than the middle class. Never works out. They stash it in tax havens instead. Trump's proposal has tax difference of only 10% I think between the rich and the lower-middle class.
>>72933501
>government uses progressive taxation to make public goods cheaper to acces
The government has no competiton and so cannot improve the quality of goods and services, nor lower the cost of production, they simply have no incentive to bother.
It's the free market that improves quality, lowers cost and improves efficiency.
>>72933501
>Libertarians want to increase the debt burned on the working class by giving monopolies to private companies so they can price gouge on access to public goods (utilities, infrastructure, etc)
Monopolies are caused by government, no one can price gouge in a free market because they have competing businesses or at least the threat of competing businesses.
>>72933981
>no retard land is a natural monopoly
Could you explain this? It doesn't fit the definition for "natural monopoly" I learned in university and I don't really know what you mean. Land is traditionally unowned until it's given on a first-come-first-served basis unless the government simpyl "seizes" it.
>>72933703
I love autismal edgelords on /pol/ who LARP about Galt's Gulch and ruthless social darwinism, even though it's painfully obvious they would fail miserably in such societies, lacking the capital, social intelligence, and aptitude to get anything done.
But keep fantasizing that you'd be a productive ubermensch if only the evil government would stop sending you checks every month lol.
>>72933996
>Have no rebuttal
>Better claim he's baiting
If abstract ideologies are designed a priori to any actual, literal nation building, they will become idealist and utopian.
With Marxism as with Libertarianism.
>>72934263
Let's see Telmex a previously state owned monopoly which is now private and since it's become private only now faces competition.
Communication in mexico regulated by the Secretariat of Communication and Transportation.
Not exactly a free market situation.
>>72934304
LMAO. I've never heard of an actual successful person having these views. It's too obvious that they stem from some feeling of inadequacy.
>>72934263
But that's like saying I have a monopoly on oats just because I'm eating a bowl right now.
Other people have land too and if you don't sell yours, I'll buy from someone else.
Of course that's different if only your land has a valuable resource underneath - which is why in most laws, you wouldn't own those things deep under your ground. I don't know anyone having a monopoly on any resource though.
The only player big enough to be considered as a monopoly in land is, again, the government - kind of the point you're trying to refute.
You can't discuss libertarianism or ancapism anymore on /pol/ since the huge amount of redditards, bernouts and other red scum invaded.
It's just an endless back and forth of muh roads, muh muhnopilies, muh corporations, muh what if I bought all the babies and put them in the water supply etc.
>>72934523
So you can only discuss it in closed circles of convinced individuals. Great ideology.
The reason I'm libertarian is not because of what libertarians stand for, but because I've seen first hand what a gigantic fuckup big guberments are.
>also libertarian = open boreder
shigidiydigidydo
>>72934022
>Holy shit I hate libertarians so much.
it's because you're stupid.
>>72934067
>thinks not thinking is common sense
You don't know your baiting, but you clearly are. Or, you wont admit to baiting, why would you? Yeah, no shit.
>>72934091
No Mr. Debnts. There's threads like this, with some economically illiterate fuck going into libertarianism completely blind to the fact they have no idea. This guy is a clone, probably like you, but you get a pass because what would you know living in greece?
Also:
>>But to say it's got nothing to do with corporate taxes et al, is retarded. If it had nothing to do with tax rate, taxhavens wouldn't exist.
>oh that's so sad that corporations that get to benefit from doing business in a nice society have to pay for it
It's this kind of bullshit, this belongs on the O'Reilly Factor or reddit. It appeals to low IQ and vaguely Liberal.
>>72932029
I still think of myself as libertarian. I've just come to realize that open borders are corrosive to most of the unique freedoms that people in the west enjoy.
rare swimming snek incoming
>>72934270
>That's our current trajectory
because of idiot libertarians that deregulated wall street, cut taxes on the rich, and gut government spending on infrastructure
>you mean like how wealthy people can and do buy up property and land
They don't own public land
for fuck's sake
>like our current system?
you still get to vote, idiot
>have a look at India's economy.
India is shit becuase
1. It's full of Indians
2. the ruling class owns everything
It's your perfect libertarian society really
>>72934284
>cannot improve the quality of goods and services
kek
I guess the last 100 years never happened then
> the free market that improves quality, lowers cost and improves efficiency.
private ownership of public land/goods/infrastructure results in the opposite, just price gouging and monopolies.
>Monopolies are caused by government,
monopolies are a natural result of private ownership of everything
>>72934298
If you own the land (and all land is privately owned) you can charge anyone else whatever you want for the use of it with no ability for the peasants to redress
welcome to feudalism
>>72934445
Carlos Slim owned every Telecom industry and price gouged billions from Mexicans
sounds like you don't know basic history
http://www.cnet.com/news/telecom-monopoly-overcharging-mexicans-billions/
>>72934507
try to think two steps ahead
what happens when "all land" is privately owned
suddenly land owners can charge anything they want
>>72934304
>>72934486
I think most successful people actually hold views very close to libertarianism, just in a more compassionate "equal opportunity" sense than the edgy Ayn Rand objectivity sense.
The notion you describe comes more from the fact that everyone who gets riled up about something, argues something online or takes an extremist view on a matter is likely to be compensating for personal failure - on the left, on the right, and on the libertarian side too.
That doesn't make any argument wrong, though.
>>72932299
The non-aggression principle is a fucking pipe dream.
>>72932490
>implying that nationalist libertarians don't exist
>>72934523
>muh monopolies
so you like monopolies then?
>>72932122
Kek saved
>>72934672
Doesn't sound like you can argue for shit
enjoy living in your libertarian fantasy world where all government is "le evil" because you have to pay taxes to live in the first world.
>>72932029
It's been delocalized in china
>>72934726
No. Most successful people hold humanistic views. And then they branch out to things like the free market etc. You are uneducated fetishists with a grudge.
>>72934787
There's also "left libertarians" and "white niggers" and "brits with good teeth" amirite
>>72932029
Open borders are the cancer for a free society. When you have non white shitskins coming over here.
Free trade is nice when both parties are doing it fair
So no child labor or other rule violations.
Alsl globalism is againt nationalism and due to he current invasion of Europe, people have become more nationalistic. This is because the eu was based on economic partnership but was quickly taken over by politics. The same can happen with your free trade. I know you want smaller goverment and more freedom but when others want to take your freedom away, liberarism isnt the way to go.
>>72934647
No. But you can't discuss it with literal retards.
>>72934691
>open borders are corrosive to most of the unique freedoms that people in the west enjoy
You could argue that this is the case only because government is so powerful that it hands out welfare, which attracts enemies of freedom. And because gubmint is strong, these enemies can then use their numbers to form it to their whim.
If government was limited to defense and upholding rights, there would be no incentive for leeches to come, and there would be no way for idiots to vote themselves money.
So in the end its not open borders that are corrosive to the freedoms, it's government.
>>72932029
>open borders
kill yourself jew
>>72934304
Lol stop projecting.
I don't receive government handouts. I reject them. I have a decent paying job. I'm able to comfortably sit here and shitpost on the internet I paid for.
I'm not some natsoc so you won't hear me pop off about muh ubermensch. I have no delusions of becoming some famous inventor or historical figure. But I have talents and skills I develop. I learn what I can from a variety of fields. I think I'd do just fine in a competitive society.
The people who will fail will fail because they don't have the ambition to develop any skills. They will fail because quite honestly, there is no need for those who take and don't produce. I'm sorry if that seems like an edgelord comment. I won't talk about how I would love to see these people suffer because I don't have some twisted pleasure in seeing people not fully realized. I'm just stating the reality. Social welfare is a illusion that the economy can support more than it actually can at some CPI quality of life. It can't and the sooner we let the system reach equilibrium, the less painful it will be in the long run. Right now we just have statistical failures basically on life support and having more children that will statistically fail because they are propped up by welfare.
>>72934724
You're using the term "natural monopoly" wrong then, it'd be helpful to dicsussion if you don't mix that up.
You're also wrong about other points but I have class now, I'll add to this post if the thread should survive.
>>72934936
Sadly the "uncucked krauts" have died out.
>>72934861
if by argue, you mean talk past each other while pretending to know everything, then yes.
but, you know what that is?
>pic
and therefore bait.
>>72934798
No. That's exactly why I am a libertarian - because I don't like monopolies. I especially don't like the biggest monopoly of them all, the government and its monopoly on violence/force.
If you statists hate monopolies so much, why do you vehemently defend the biggest and most dangerous monopolies there are?
>>72933297
Well, unless achieved by force. Like the Cartels in Mexico. If they want a monopoly they can't defer to some higher power to grant it, they just have to kill everyone else. In a sense he's right, if it was only corporations and no State at all they would just raise armies to kill each other. But yeah, most monopolies are enabled by the State, the most famous being Bell.
>>72934971
Then why aren't you with your super-smart friends discussing it? The free-market failed you. You need some regulations on /pol/.
>>72934876
Isn't a "humanistic view" that sees everyone as equal and branches out to things like "free market etc." just that, libertarianism?
You seem very confused, and your need to insult everyone seems like you're the fetishist with a grudge - but whatever, gotta get going.
>>72934724
>you still get to vote idiot
Then maybe you misunderstand what a libertarian society is. It's not anarchy.
>public land
So the government owns it. The government is a monopoly of sorts. You assume it's better off in the government's hands? Perhaps you're right but you should realize that assumption. There's also nothing stopping individuals from organizing to collectively own property for conservation or for public use.
>>72934724
>kek
>I guess the last 100 years never happened then
In the last 100 years we've seen an unprecedented acceleration of technology in the free market where there's competition.
Where as anything govt controlled like schooling we've seen almost no innovation.
>private ownership of public land/goods/infrastructure results in the opposite, just price gouging and monopolies.
No, private ownership results in competition and lower prices for goods and services. Monopolies can only exist when one business holds some advantage that no other private business can obtain, the classic examples is government regulations that favor one business over another.
>monopolies are a natural result of private ownership of everything
Most businesses are privately owned right now and there's little in the way of monopolies except where government interferes.
>>72932029
>lolbertarians
Who was it Shintelli? Shantelli? Shilltelli? Whatever.
Clearly you dont remember the laughing stock libertarians made themselves out to be all thanks to that big fuck up with the guy who scammed libertarian donations from /pol/. Much irony was had that day.
The board was taken over by edgy all-night faggots who think it's hilarious to have Trump lead the GOP because of memes.
These idiots aren't smart enough to see that by supporting Trump they are ensuring decades of Democrat rule.
>>72935157
I'm discribing your bunch who calls everyone they disagree with an 'economic illiterate'. You have a meme ideology, sorry. And no, abstract notions can't be interpreted in a single way.
>>72935272
When was the last time a pom's opinion on American governance actually mattered?
>>72935114
See, this is the kind of shit I was talking about.
>>72934486
It's funny you say that. There was some article or study posted recently on here about how most wealthy people hold views more in line with libertarianism. I think libertarians as a demographic tend to be better off in terms of wealth and education. They also approach politics from an emotionally detached POV.
>>72932369
Right, because turning your country into a constant warzone from an invading impoverished people is a good idea. Just because the population has a stand your ground allowance doesn't mean you should force everyone to live daily with it.
>>72935012
nope
>Mill also applied the term to land, which can manifest a natural monopoly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly
>>72935035
Molyneux has no idea how economics works
he actually thinks deficits matter.
>>72935046
The government is what ensures that private monopolies don't come around and it uses progressive taxation to provide goods cheaply to the working class so all of society benefits
but again libertarians can't understand something that simple
>>72935170
>It's not anarchy.
but they hate all government ownership of anything and apparently hate the government for existing at all
>The government is a monopoly of sorts
That isn't open to market forces so it doesn't charge monopoly prices
>>72935222
>In the last 100 years we've seen an unprecedented acceleration of technology
Most technology comes out of applying learning and knowledge that comes from state sponsored universities.
The internet was a fucking Defense department project
libertarians are the idiots that think NASA is a waste of money
>private ownership results in competition and lower prices for goods and services
Not if you have a monopoly on access to anything. You just price gouge for maximum profit.
>Most businesses are privately owned right now
And if we had no government anywhere we'd have nothing but monopolies
>>72934724
>sounds like you don't know basic history
>the telecom industry in mexico is basic history
lol ok
>>72934971
>You could argue that this is the case only because government is so powerful that it hands out welfare, which attracts enemies of freedom
This meme needs to die.
Long before the New Deal, third-world radicals such as European Jews were swarming the US and changing its culture in fundamental ways--liberalizing it and ultimately making it susceptible to the gibs culture we see today. And it's only going to get worse. A culture is nothing more than the shared beliefs of its people, and if you change the people, the beliefs will change too. You simply can't have open borders and libertarianism at the same time.
>>72935437
>wealthy people hold views more in line with libertarianism
It's because they know that libertarianism will natural benefit them while fucking over the rest of society
there's a reason thay Forbes wants a flat tax (because the billionaires will pay far less) not because he actually thinks it will help anyone.
>>72934876
Hence social freedom, economic stability, and an even playing field. Equality of opportunity, not to be confused with equality of outcome.
>>72934724
>no ability to redress
unless you violate their property
>>72932029
/pol/ never valued open borders. Free market without freedom of transfer of human capital from other cultures and ussually nationalised banks because muh jews is still a thing though
>>72932029
I still value limited government free trade and fre markets. I was NEVER for open borders.
In a perfect idealised world then of course, because we would be free. The problem is with governments stealing money in the form of taxes and handing it out to scumbag 'refugee' migrants open borders just simply cannot work because all the good countries will have sand niggers flocking to them in droves, who will proceed to ruin the country like they did theirs, and move on to the next one.
>>72935509
That's how monopolies work
If you aren't familiar with real world private monopolies then you really aren't in a position to make the claim that there could "never" be private monopolies of infrastructure.
>>72935485
Those are myths you're spouting
Universities were mostly privately funded
>>72935472
are open borders ok if the whole world is white?
also, don't mistake me saying we SHOULD have open borders under all circumstances.
Under some conditions, there's nothing wrong with open borders. Or are open borders never ok? you tell me.
>>72935485
>Mill also applied the term to land, which can manifest a natural monopoly by virtue of it being the only land with a particular mineral, etc
You conveniently ignored the rest of the sentence which makes it a theoretical thought experiment that puts land on the level of tools you need for a certain industry.
And I even addressed that exception earlier in this thread, stating that 1) that's a different situation, 2) that situation is completely theoretical and doesn't exist, 3) the laws about land ownership usually (at least in Germany) explicitly don't give you ownership to these fruits of your land.
>>72935379
>>72935437
Okay. You are just idiots. You come here and make a thread (okay) and then complain it doesn't go the way wanted it to! "Very libertarian ".
>>72935669
>DARPA is a myth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA
>the land grant's are a myth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university
this is how utterly delusional libertarians are
>>72935485
that doesn't follow.
See, I'm right. You're talking past me.
Keep baiting.
>>72932029
People grow up and got a brain.
AnCap's and Libertards are just as intellectually retarded as the Commies. It's kinda fun to see them go at each other, like the "special" Olympics.
>>72935509
>>72935661
those are just price leaderships and most are regulated to zoning laws
>>72935749
> that situation is completely theoretical and doesn't exist
private land monopolies already existed they were called feudalism
>>72935485
>they hate government, they hate everything
If we hated the government so much, we'd be anarchists. Libertarians like classical liberals recognize the necessity of government. We also recognize it's inherent monopoly on force/authority, it's propensity toward corruption and collusion, and therefore seek to limit it's scope and power.
>That isn't open to market forces so it doesn't charge monopoly prices
The bureaucrats think otherwise. And you do point out something important. Because the government doesn't respond to market forces, it is inherently non competitive and demonstrably inefficient.
>>72932029
>valued limited government
anyone who doesn't still value this is a newfag
>>72935783
>claim all tech from universities are pub-funded
>anon lists 1 specifically from 1958
you're retarded
>>72935573
Billionaires already pay far less as a percentage. They have the money and know how to both lobby for tax breaks and loopholes and hire top financial advisors who can actually comb through the fuckhueg tax code that has been lobbied for.
>>72932490
Librarians failed to realize that faggots like you won't read books to educate yourselves.
>>72935830
right
overcharging Mexicans billions totally has nothing to do with a monopoly (that the government eventually broke up)
>>72935865
>seek to limit it's scope and power
That could mean naything
All I hear from libertarians is how we need to cut all spending to everything because muh free market
apparently living in a first world country isn't good enough for them until they get their utopia.
>>72935978
universities have always gotten public money
>>72936015
>they pay less now therefore they should pay even less
>>72936038
>read muh Ayn Rand and get an education
pls
I think op is confusing Libertarians with Ancaps.
Correct me if i'm wrong because i'm not a libertarian. But the ones that defend open borders say that it wouldn't be a problem because also in a libertarian society shit like the welfare state wouldn't exist, right?
I mean, that makes sense, look at the 'refugees' coming over to Europe. What kind of countries are they aiming for? the ones with a big welfare state that will cover all their needs, they are not coming over here to work since they can barely read or write in their native languages and they have IQs in the fucking 70-80s. They just want the free stuff and if they didn't get shit at all they would go back, same shit would happens with the 3rd world people coming to USA, they would get there and fail to adapt since they are dumb and go back or just starve.
Also there are loads of libertarians that defend having closed borders since it's under the umbrella of defense and they consider defense and the army one of the few things the government should control, right?
>>72935766
I think you're the one complaining and throwing out ad hom. It's not an argument.
I don't think a libertarian organization started this thread with some intention of pushing some agenda. You might be new and I don't mean that in the meme "lol newfag" sense but in case you are, this board has a history of libertarian supporters. Back in 2012 when one of our candidates was seemingly doing what Sanders and Trump were, the ideology was talked about much more. We've always been here. Notice however, that for the most part we're quite reserved. You don't see a lot of libertarian shitposting and daily threads here everyday though I can't say the same for the "muh roads" crowd.
>>72936015
Then maybe it is time to toss the idiot, liberal-created tax code and replace it with something flatter and simpler...
But statists love a complex tax code because it gives them political capital, fuel for class warfare and leverage with donors.
>>72936172
Who the fuck mentioned anything about Ayn Rand?
They went to reddit. No I'm serious.
>>72936172
>overcharging
how do you determine the correct or 'fair' price?
>always gotten public money
yes but many universities are also privately funded and many of the tech discovery or development that gets gov funding on technologies have already been in development or built on the shoulders of decades of study and research in the private field.
>>72935844
Do you know what a monopoly is? Feudalism did not have one man owning all land. And land could be freely sold. Some people simply could not afford it or had near-slave status. That's like saying everyone who owns a garden has a natural monopoly, just because some people can't afford to.
There was also absolutism where everything including your soul and your wife's vagina was owned by a single man if he said so, but that doesn't mean that pussy is a natural monopoly or that Mill's thought experiment is anything but that under the current law and under the fact that no mineral to my knowledge has been found unique to only one place (and if it was, it'd not be owned by the person owning the land above it).
>>72936331
the fucking librarians. Ayn Rand wrote a book!!!
>>72932029
>limited government
yes
>free trade
currently that fucks us more than you could possibly imagine
>free markets
yes
>open borders
pic related
Newfags and Trump memesters happened.
>>72936460
>'fair' price
when you have a monopoly you naturally charge monopoly rates
>technologies have already been in development or built on the shoulders of decades of study and research in the private field.
like the internet
oh wait
>>72936460
>Some people simply could not afford it or had near-slave status.
Welcome to your libertarian future
>>72936583
Just off yourself buddy, your skull is so fucking thick.
>>72936502
>Some people simply could not afford it or had near-slave status.
Welcome to your libertarian future
>There was also absolutism where everything including your soul and your wife's vagina was owned by a single man
again, welcome to your libertarian future
>>72932299
Foreign hordes who invade your property and cry GIBSMEDAT violate the NAP you dipshit.
>>72932029
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vyhOMJXHPA
>open borders
>BEING A GLOBALIST
Disgust.
>>72932104
We're still here! :)
>>72936206
>>72936206
Gypos don't get any welfare but they still go in masses to the west to beg and steal cause the west has more shit.
Stupid people or people who look to do harm don't just migrate because of easy money in the form of welfare, easy money can also come from stealing or begging or doing low paying jobs for even lower pay since you have no standards.
And that is not even accounting for people financed from an outside force to purposely take over a nation like the Saudi's have been doing in places.
>>72935485
>The government is what ensures that private monopolies don't come around and it uses progressive taxation to provide goods cheaply to the working class so all of society benefits
So the government ensures that private monopolies (which never happened) don't come around (implying it would happen or be necessarily a bad thing), by stealing half of my money and giving it to someone else, but only after taking most of it for itself?
Geez, I'm really glad that government is providing this service. I mean, if they didn't, I might have faced price gouging and could accidentally have spend more money than necessary. Thank god the government is preventing that BY STEALING MY MONEY FROM ME SO I CANT DECIDE HOW TO SPEND IT AT ALL!
THANKS OBAMA!
>>72935661
I understand the notion that private monopolies can pop up. It seems reasonable and it's the biggest criticism I have of full right wing libertarianism but at the same time, those on the far right libertarianism spectrum have a point, most monopolies we see today are caused by government and regulation. Even the mexico telecom example is an example of a previously government owned monopoly.
I don't think I claimed there never could be a private monopoly but if we are to look at the various models of government and political ideology, it has overwhelmingly been government creating monopoly which equally if not more dangerous.
I'm more pragmatic. I think there should be some basic regulations and fail-safes but to be honest, I'm not an econo major and I'm not going to pretend to know everything about it. I've heard reasoned arguments why there shouldn't be natural monopolies and I've always personally felt it counter-intuitive.
I don't think any libertarian is asking the US turn into a completely deregulated economy overnight. We can take steps toward deregulation and decentralization of power. I would prefer that actually. It only makes sense to make incremental changes and gauge the outcome than to have some complete revolution.
It's odd to me that there is such kickback against libertarians like what we propose is out of the question to discuss and sociopathic craaaazzzy. Most of us seem reasonable. Why should there not be a libertarian counter voice in the mainstream?
>>72936836
>BY STEALING MY MONEY FROM ME
>stealing
>in order to provide goods and services so you can live in a society not dominated by monarchs
wow how awful
>>72935519
Did you read the rest of my post?
If government can not be changed by the people, because it does not have such powers, all the shit you said doesnt matter. Jews can do whatever they want, if they can not change the constitution, it does not matter.
Who gives a fuck about culture?
You can have culture with like minded people, but there is no such thing as a national culture. Maybe there was in past centuries, but not anymore.
>>72936172
>living in the first world country isn't good enough
It's never good enough. That mentality is stagnation. Why should we not attempt to become better?
>>72936866
>We can take steps toward deregulation
Yeah what a great system like when Reagan and Clinton deregulated wall street
"hey wall street you can commit all the fraud and market manipulation you want" *economy crashes*
surely deregulation will lead us to a golden age.
>>72936994
libertarian mentality leads back to feudalism
you want to go back to being a 3rd world pesant
>>72932029
they have grown up
Still here.
No welfare state, open borders
Welfare state, close the borders and deport 'em
>>72936680
"monopoly rates" are also limited to what the consumer is willing to buy
yes like the internet, it was built upon a history of development in private and public field
I don't get your point. Do you think nothing could be created without the government giving out money?
>>72932029
>>72936302
The GOP seems to love it for the tax loop holes they have created with the rich.
The DNC folk seem to think the way to fix wealth inequality is through further manipulating it.
None of the two can consider just fucking axing the whole dam thing.
>>72937046
No, you need to go back.
>>72936923
>steal 10 bucks from you
>keep 5 for myself
>buy 2 muffins for the rest
>hand one to you and the other to some random nignog
>but only after taking a bite out of both
THANK ME FOR MY SERVICE, CITIZEN!
>>72932029
I still value limited government. Free trade is great when it's actually free, but it's not. Domestic free markets are fine. Open borders will and have always been shit.
>>72937126
>what the consumer is willing to buy
The consumer doesn't have a choice because it's a monopoly
want to use this land (that is privately owned and surrounded by other privately owned land)? Fine just become my debt slave peasant for life.
That's how you set up aristocracy 2.0
>>72936923
>>in order to provide goods and services
wew lad! Is that your best defense of government?
Anything that the government can do, private industry can do 10 times better.
If we get rid of welfare and were a truly capitalist society boarders would not be a problem.
>>72937146
>libertarians comparing public goods and services to muffins
this is how childish and naive they really are
>>72932029
/pol/ never valued open borders
>>72937254
>Statists think that bureaucracy is efficient
>>72937231
no since private ownership of public goods leads to monopolies that charge high prices with shitty service
see: Mexico's telecom industry
http://www.cnet.com/news/telecom-monopoly-overcharging-mexicans-billions/
>>72937323
>libertarians think feudalism is freedom
>>72937254
Are you saying that food is not a basic human right?
Should not the government provide food as a public good, since corporations will just price gouge food and make you sign a contract turning you into a slave for the rest of your life?
>>72937339
You need to go back.
>>72937339
>see: Mexico's telecom industry
No, that's corporatism retard. The state enforces that monopoly
>>72937374
Muh feudalism
>>72937210
Nobody is forcing them to use the land. they'll just go somewhere else
>>72937018
>wall street
Wall street is a prime example of government collusion and fuckery with made up investment vehicles.
>>72932029
Reality > Theory
Islamic caliphate would happen if we had open borders.
The best type of government in practice is a nationalist government with a capitalist economy.
>>72937285
This.
>>72932029
>open borders
Gee, if only Israel would open their borders!
>>72937386
food is not a public good
>>72937412
>that's corporatism retard. The state enforces that monopoly
that's your libertarian future
>feudalism
ie future libertarians society
>Nobody is forcing them to use the land.
libertarian solution to land monopolies: just stop using land!!!
the essence of magical thinking
>>72937418
It's almost like corporations exploit the system when they have control over anything
>>72936945
>Who gives a fuck about culture?
And there it is.
>>72932029
Libertarian here
AMA
>>72937527
>just stop using land!!!
Yes, because if the landowner can't compete in the market he'll have to change his business model. How has this not occurred to you yet?
No, libertarianism wouldn't lead to corporatism because the government wouldn't be used to actively enforce monopolies.
>>72937146
Then leave.
I don't understand libertarian parties. They want to trample their Non Aggression Principle to enforce their views on a grander population.
While complaining about that all day long.
>>72937628
>can't compete in the market he'll have to change his business model
you don't "compete" with land it's a monopoly
>>72937700
How is land a monopoly? What is stopping people from going to another area?
>>72937210
>the consumer doesn't have a choice because it's a monopoly
A) Consumers unwilling to pay price, company adjust it's asking price to better reflect the demand price curve
B) Enough people become upset about it that they put pressure on business to chance. In today's day and age, all it takes is a facebook post or retweet to get the masses riled up about something.
C) A new company takes advantage of the excess demand at the lower asking price leading big company to become more competitive or allow consumers to pick the better option
>>72932104
the legend will never die!
>>72937527
>It's almost like corporations exploit the system when they have control over anything
Which is why you don't give them such access to government regulation levers. A free market monopoly is only as legitimate as it's consumers will tolerate. A government created monopoly is as legit as the monopoly of force backing it.
>>72937757
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_monopoly
you can't go anywhere except to other land monopolies in you "libertarian paradise"
the result neofeudalism where thearistocratic land owner controls everything.
>>72937765
>A) Consumers unwilling to pay price,
then they die/go into debt to afford it, sucks for them
>B) Enough people become upset
tough shit, a monopoly is a monopoly
>C) A new company takes advantage of the excess demand
You can't compete with a land monopoly
especially since all other land owners have a land monopoly
>>72937880
>the corporations exploited the government and wrecked society
>therefore corporations should run society
>>72933097
comsidering the bedouins are broun libertarians i say you're full of shit.
Everything was going fine for them too untill WHITE SLAV REFUGEES came in and started gangs so we also started gangs to combat them.
>>72938009
>Beduins are libertarians
Sure, Snow Fall Ching Chong. What ever you say
>>72938006
>you can't go anywhere except to other land monopolies in you "libertarian paradise"
>the result neofeudalism where thearistocratic land owner controls everything.
But wouldn't it behoove the "fudalist landowners" to compete against each other in a market?
>>72938155
> what is Dubai
Memetarians are so ignorant it's amazing how they managed to educate themselves to use the internet. But then again, if you weren't ignorant, you wouldn't have become memetarians in the first place.
>>72938249
> m-muh competition
It's like Hail Mary for you cultists.
>>72932299
Forcing immigrants on the community against its will violates non-aggression principle m8.
>>72938423
>No argument against free market economy
ok statist don't you have some taxes to pay?
>>72932299
A lot of /pol/ could be described as "libertarian" but not as actual libertarians. A lot of people who aren't fairly recent newfags do still like limited government, free markets, etc. Open borders and free trade are not really a good idea. There are still libertarians around that I guess follow those principles.
/pol/ could probably be best described as "National socialists."
>>72938009
>>72937533
Please explain what culture you want to preserve.
>>72937639
Where should we go?
Why should we run away when we could be free?
>enforce their views
There is nothing to enforce. Freedom is a state of nature we just need to go back to it by limiting government.
>>72936866
> most monopolies we see today are caused by government and regulation
[citation needed]
>>72938562
> statist
I often wonder if memetarians literally pray to Ayn Rand and John Gault and bring sacrifices to makeshift altars. You're certainly religious enough for such ritualistic activities.
>>72932029
>limited government
Sure.
>free trade
Sure.
>free markets
Sure.
>open borders
Fuck right off.
>>72938006
>You can't compete with a land monopoly
You really love that term but it has little relevance in reality. A monopoly on an industry or product doesn't mean a monopoly on all land needed to produce or manufacture that product.
Maybe if society was contained to a small island and we weren't talking about the entire globalized world.
>>72938006
if there are other land owners it is not a fucking monopoly you god damn idiot
owning something does not make it a monopoly
>>72938249
>But wouldn't it behoove the "fudalist landowners" to compete against each other in a market?
Or they did they did. Hundred Years' War? Try to beat that! Then with changes in military tech efficient size of sovereign feudalist landowner raised to the size of the European country and age of absolutism started.
>>72938773
>[citation needed]
Name a monopoly and I tell you why its caused by government regulation.
>>72938006
Also:
Let's take your land monopoly thing and apply it to our current society.
What's stopping these so called land monopolies?
There is of course public owned land, but you can't own that. You can't live in a park. You can't park your car on the grass there and make a home there. So great, you can go there. So let's say all the other land in the country is owned by individuals and companies. So now you can't go anywhere else besides government public land, where you can't own or set up residence. Maybe you go get lost in the woods. But nevermind that, the point is private property rights already exist and yet, this isn't a problem of land monopolies. Companies in order to sell products and services need to be open to you coming and going. Land owners in order to make a profit off of their land, need to either turn it into residences for sale or rent or use it to make a business or factory where people come and go.
This is a manufactured problem ultimately.
>>72939134
Windows OS.
>>72938672
>Where should we go?
An island in the Pacific, beggars can't be choosers.
>There is nothing to enforce
Yes there is you want to strip people of their governments, which most don't agree and more importantly nations require to function as a nation needs an army, a justice system, the police.
>Freedom is a state of nature
No it isn't.
>>72939134
Microsoft.
> g-gubmint helped them at some point
Every government in existence interferes with its economics. Interacting with a company at all is not the same as "causing a monopoly by government regulation", stupid.
The same tendencies that result in government corruption and inefficiency will plague *any* institution that persists long enough. So it was with the church, so it happened with guilds, and so it happens with bloated corporations.
Businesses allowed full reign will accumulate capital and influence, which gives them greater ability to leverage capital and influence. Money makes money.
Cartels and oligopolies form readily enough with or without governmental interference. Monopolies of supply exist, indisputably, and are easy enough to establish over resources.
Competition can drive innovation and progress, yes, and in an honest market is healthy. Literally every business has an interest in not playing honest. Competition also can have trouble actually garnering demand if it cannot be seen, found, or move its product or services. To say nothing of simply being bought out, or beaten down.
A critical flaw with almost every economic theory is that they either assume that people all have clarity of judgement (a laughable proposition), or that information disseminates perfectly (whereas all one needs do is look at adverts and industrial espionage to see that controlling information is another stage of the game).
Yeah, governments make monopolies easier, because they're a lever. But you know what? Government is a very loose term, really. Whatever gap is left behind will be filled by something else. Such is life.
Government is just a scapegoat here, the convenient thing to blame in its omnipresence through history. Humanity itself remains the root.
>>72939304
Linux
Apple OS
>>72939134
Wolkswagen
Adidas
Coca Cola
Those are 3 right of the top of my head.
>>72939500
Very small share of the market. Monopoly means a single party has the majority of the market, not all of it.
>>72939524
>list monopolies
>lists competitive companies that have a competitors up the ass
>>72939304
>>72939380
I'm typing these words from a Mac, and my phone runs on Android.
>>72939345
>if you don't want the government to do it, you must not want it at all!
no.
Libertarians generally agree that the state should handle national defense. Opinions on justice and police differ, but its not like we do not want these services.
In a libertarian nation, the people could get all the same services the government gave them, just much cheaper and more efficient.
I was always raised in an anti gov't home so maybe that influences my views.
I believe in the free market because I don't think you should be threatened to be put in a cage for not giving people the stuff you earned. Furthermore, the free market can actually do a lot of good for a society. I would prefer a free market over one where my money is taken and spent for me.
>>72939524
>Coca Cola
Pepsi, and various local beverages, all compete with it. It's the biggest, but it doesn't have a monopoly.
>>72932104
Why do libertarians always get shit on?
>>72939563
Well that monopoly isn't a problem. People like and are familiar with Microsoft OS. Business is too.
There is no shortage of options. There is however, a shortage of demand for said options.
I don't complain that the pop music stars have a monopoly on music sales, but I hate their music. People want to buy there shit. That's their choice. No one is depriving them of options.
>>72939563
No, monopoly means one entity controls everything unchallenged.
>>72939524
lol
>big corporations = monopoly
this is why you statists are dumb shits
>Open borders
>>72939592
> I'm typing these words from a Mac, and my phone runs on Android.
Holy shit, you couldn't even have answered with some ridiculous fallacy.
B T F O
>>72934263
>Telecom industry in Mexico
Result of protectionism. The government decides who can actually get licenses to start up telecommunications companies in mexico, and only gives them to mexican companies, which is to say they only give them to Telemex.
If it wasn't for the government, other large companies like verizion, AT&T, Vodafone, etc. would have come in, started iffering their services and destroyed the monopoly.
So try again please.
>>72939256
With current situation of land owning government:
1. Forces land owners at gun point to provide servitudes.
2. Government itself provides public services associated with such servitudes (roads) cucking land owners aside with threat of violence.
3. Limits prices for land and servitudes. Most important limitation of prices: it prohibits sells of personal rights in the exchange for land use.
You don't really "own" land today. You own very limited parts of rights associated with land.
>>72932029
When things become politically correct it is not allowed here anymore, duh.
>>72939380
Corporatism= the close binding of gov't and corporations that punish the consumer.
Capitalism= voluntary trade between two parties honestly.
Fuck off Rice Nigger
>>72939790
It means you didn't list monopolies, you stupid POG.
>>72939618
The choice between government and market control of essential industries and services is a question of how risky a gamble does one want to make.
With Gubment, it's generally mediocre but stable, with extended periods of either fairly awful or fairly good. Slow and steady, moderated by direct public interaction. The trick here is keeping the government beholden to the people, and not the reverse.
With the market, its high risk, high reward. Individual businesses might gain huge market shares, get wrapped up in short term profits, then explode for one reason or another, showering sectors of the economy with the fall out. Or, they might innovate in fantastic ways, acting as bastions of progress. The trick is to make the market care about more than profit- or to make profit mean more than money.
Both fail at key junctures, but such is life.
>>72939951
Capitalism = power to the capital.
That' s mean enjoy your spic and muslim because these people are good for your oligarque
>>72940110
Lol cause race gives you money
Only in a welfare state you dumbass frenchie.
The market gives nothing to anybody without earning it.
>>72932029
I still support all those things.
Though open borders has the caveat of also requiring no Goverment hand outs or any form of welfare. If you have open borders AND welfare, just kiss your country goodbye
/pol/ became Nazi, then grew up but still retained authoritarian aspects after looking at the failures of liberalism.
>>72940176
No every studie show immigration have no correlation with welfare
>>72939742
Except Wollswagen does control everything, or all most. The majority of car brands in Europe are owned by them or their subsidiaries.
>>72940283
If that's true, which it isn't, then who cares about the immigrants? If they are truly coming not to leach off of your money, but instead work hard, do well and provide a better life for their children, then who cares where they come from?
If they want to succeed, and don't want to do you harm or leach off of you, why does it matter?
>>72939627
Except it effectively does.
>>72939587
>lists monopolies
>THOSE AREN'T MONOPOLIES CAUSE I SAY SO
A Monopoly doesn't mean competitors don't exist fuckface. It means a party control the majority of the market.
>>72940283
Yeah thats why the number "asylumseekers" in Germany skyrocketed the month after our highest court decided that those should get the same welfare services as Germans.
Absolutely no correlation whatsoever.
>>72938006
>monopoly
>monopoly
>mexican telecom
>monopoly
holy shit, at least try to make your bait less obvious
>>72940438
Except some come over to steal and beg and care not for welfare.
Do you fuckers not have gypsies over there?
>>72940567
If there's significant competition, it's not a monopoly. If the control isn't exclusive, it's not a monopoly. The market share of Coca Cola is only dominating in partially developed nations where it got its foot in the door early to tap their water reserves for delicious soft drinks.
The drink market could maybe qualify as monopolistic competition, but any fifth grader should be able to notice the objective fact that an industry with several competing major corporation is not a fucking monopoly.
>>72940438
They make children and your society die because it's a invasion and your are too apathic and fat to resist.
And just look the cjrrent situation france have a very generous welfare state but every immigrant want to go in england who have shit-tier welfare, thy know that and almost everyone want to go in england bc they can work.
The first generation of algerian in france were very cool and very hardworking people, noyt a single one come for welfare and now look at the ethnic and religious division
>>72940677
I'm very well aware of that, which is one of the many reasons I'm against welfare
>>72940577
Why england have a lot of demand and france none?
Every surian know they will have work thag's why they come.
Arab nigger are like everybody, it's better to have a job than being on welfare
>>72940973
Ok then what about Wolkswagen.
Though it is localized to Europe, them and their subsidiaries control the vast majority of the car market, especially mid price cars. Leftovers being in the high end and niche markets.
>>72940985
>They make children and your society die because it's a invasion and your are too apathic and fat to resist
If it'a an invasion then that fails the whole "having no intentions of doing you harm" aspect, and thus they wouldn't be allowed in, as libertarianism still allows you to protect your nation, and that would certainly qualify as protection.
>>72941137
Except volkswagen made up only 10.3% of new car registration in the EU last year. That's a far cry from a monopoly
>>72941307
They don't want to harm you, but they do childrens.
>>72941107
>immigration is monocausal
Get your head out of your ass.
