explain yourselves
Why should I care
>>72928919
As if oligarchy doesn't lead to Democratic socialism which leads to fascism.
Also Trump isn't a fascist.
>>72928919
I don't understand what this Trump is a fascist thing is based on
>>72929109
he disagrees with lefties
therefore he's a fascist
>>72929139
I know that's the obvious answer but they have to have some kind of actual reason. Am I just putting too much faith in people?
>>72929109
In Marxist terminology fascism is just a term for the enemy. Far away from Mussolini defining it as corporatism or national syndicalism.
Let's go with a fair assertion of fascism instead:
Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[7] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[7] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature, and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[8][9][10][11] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[12]
And then it's time to prove that Trump is actually a fascist. Rest assured, he's not.
>>72928919
None of these are remotely accurate, both in that none of these candidates are what they say, and they have the definitions completely wrong and heavily biased.
What do you actually classify Trump as?
>>72928919
fucking MAGA muthafuckas!
>>72929221
He's not, he is a liberal. He's just using fascist techniques in his speeches to attract voters.
>>72929283
Dennis Reynolds in the episode of Always Sunny where he runs for Comptroller
>I'm not dropping out anymore, you know I think I could actually do some good in this town
>>72929283
National conservative, or right wing populist.
Trumo wont win. If he does thats how you know hes merely a puppet. Its all a show. America is lost.
>>72929218
You're putting too much faith in people.
The only fascists in this race are the lefties assaulting Trump supporters.
>>72928919
Your picture is bullshit.
Fascism is term for the merge of the government and corporations.
>>72929471
We fought two wars and won both times limey, dont make us fight a third
>>72929283
Nationalist Conservative Capitalist EMPEROR GOD
>>72929700
You mean you watched as real men fought. The moment you morons actually have a war you lose. kek, dont make me get vietnam for you.
>>72929109
Some of his rhetoric can possibly be construed as fascist, however I think the biggest factor is it's just retards who immediately consider all manners of authoritarianism as fascism.
>>72929295
Dude when I was a kid I always fantasized that Victoria's Secret model.
I don't even know her name.
I honestly don't even think Fascism is real or has ever been real.
It's more like a process than a political ideology or end goal. It's the means to achieve something else. Corruption is a means of achieving something through dishonest means and usually bribes but it is not seen as a goal to pursue or as an ideology the same was that fascism is just a means of reaching another goal such as national socialism or communism or whatever
>Socialism works
>My brand of socialism has never been tried I swear
>>72930180
>Socialism/comunism hasnt been tried I swear
>>72928919
>social democracy
Useful idiots literally think that socialism is like social media. They probably wish there was an app for it on their iphones.
The ad Nazium is stronkh in this one.
>>72930180
Your pic is a representation of African ethnic nationalism, not le socialism meme
>>72928919
Trump's not a Fascist. He has some fascist ideas and policies, but he's not a Fascist.
>Implying there's anything wrong with Fascism
>Implying Mussolini didn't imply that Fascism was limited to the Italians.
>pejorative words for first two
>fluffy sunshiney words for your favored person
Good propaganda but little more. And bernout, Sanders is a socialist.
>>72930524
>Sanders is a socialist
He is just a little more socialist than the others.
>>72930439
>Mugabe is not a socialist
>Expropiating land to private owners is not socialism
>>72930576
Anyone who supporters collective ownership of the means of production is a dirty commie not fit to rule a bridge club.
>>72930314
The bad scores in 1990 have more to do with capitalism than socialism. All of their assets were sold out.
>>72930314
>>72930180
It's funny, because true capitalism doesn't exist either.
>>72930656
Bernie does not even HINT at that. Where did you catch it?
so trump is a dictator now, what?
>>72928919
I like how you attach an image meant to set up a narrative that we would just accept.
It's like that guy on Vox that kept going on about how Trump is really scary, without ever giving any evidence as to how Trump is scary.
Here, take a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drWh6vBa45k
>>72930656
He doesn't plan to do that.
He's more aiming at central/north european type social democracy/mixed market economy. Which is still a dumb idea for the US, but not as dumb as socialism.
FASCISM =/= AUTHORITARIANISM
Trump does not want to
>install a corporatist economic model
>use modernity to achieve a pre-modern utopia
>while simultaneously being anti-conservative (building a new world, destroying existing institutions of power)
>transform American citizens into a kind of Volksgemeinschaft
>bypass the official structures and directly decide policy (Fuhrer-idea)
I can think of plenty more but these seem essential to fascism/national socialism. Trump wants none of that.
>Reminder that germany is a social democracy
>One of the wealthiest and productive countries in the world
I hate bernie and his voters but social democracy is not inherently bad.
>>72930684
Having trouble finding my source. It was on a reddit AMA where someone referenced co-ops and asked the senator if he would support more worker-owned businesses to which he said yes.
>>72930807
Exactly. He is a socially liberal, politically democratic person.
>>72930872
What? Worker co-ops do exist within capitalism. What are small companies? Are they stealing from anyone?
>>72930815
Not inherently, no. But in a country of 300+mil people, divided by many factors (racial, religious, cultural,...)? I would say social democracy would fail miserably.
>>72930679
>>72930661
>Capitalism doesnt work I swear,lets try socialism that has never been tried!
>>72931029
I agree, but the consensus seemed to me that it's equal to communism, which it is not.
I just wanted to make that clear, can't be sure how educated burgers are, after all.
>>72931065
Sorry m8, but you don't get to advocate the benefits of the free market by pointing out a socialist country that's spent decades under embargo.
>>72929716
>trump
>conservative
I wish he was
>>72931139
Like Hong Kong with China? Because they had an embargo for their biggest trading partner for ages,but they still managed to become wealthier than the UK. Cuba was as wealthy as Austria before Castro chimped out
>>72929914
>Some of his rhetoric can possibly be construed as fascist
Like what?
>>72931226
You mean the US embargo against china?
Which set up Hong Kong as a prime trade spot with the US?
>>72931065
I never said that, stop being an ass. What I said is true. The worst period for Eastern Europe was the 90's. Some are only now reaching their income levels of 1990. Others, who embraced free market passionately (like the Baltics), are better off.
>>72930872
So long as the workers aren't violently seizing control of those companies from their former bosses I don't see what the problem is with that. Rather a socialist business fail then a socialist country, the latter's too tragic to laugh at while the former's just right.
>>72931326
China put an embargo against Hong kong. And it was their biggest trading partner. But as they opened their markets for foreing investment saved Hong Kong from becoming a shithole. Cuba preffered to suck USSR so Castro could live the good life,with the money that the USSR gave him
>>72931107
Fair enough. I think the Scandinavian countries pre-migration are a good enough example that social democracy can work - wether a more freedom oriented society would have worked even better is another discussion altogether but still doesn't take away from the fact that socdem did work there.
bernie should be labeled a bolshevik
>>72931433
Poland,Romania,the Czech Republic and the Baltic republics are way better off. I dont know about the rest,but just looking at the commie progression its obvious that their system was inferior
>>72931478
In fact, it's good for capitalism. More jobs, more taxes, and a political talking point for the unemployed.
>>72931546
Scandinavian countries developed the most with the classic liberal goverments. And they werent damaged much after 2 world wars. They also are amongst the freest economies in the world. Classic social democracy,which is what the mummy Sanders wants, failed in the 90's so hard that Sweden had to privatize half of the country
>>72931606
Poland and Romania aren't "way" better off. Poland has recently reached income levels of 1989 or something. Romania is even worse. Big unemployment, drugs, very low wages, etc. Czechs were better anyway (even under Warsaw pact) and they are bros with Germany.
>>72929219
What's that one quote by Winston Churchill about the fascists of the future?
>>72931814
The one I can never find a source for.
>>72931502
>China put an embargo against Hong kong.
Care to inform me when that happened?
Because all I find is the US enforced embargo against China.
I'm still not sure why we talk about HK when you're still complaining about people forced out of the market for not embracing the free market.
I mean, you know why Castro nationalized the US businesses on Cuba in the first place? That was in response to the general US embargo.
An embargo that extended so far that just one step of the manufacturing process done in Cuba means it's covered.
Oh, and generally no company that wants access to the US market may do any business in cuba.
Free market!
>>72931886
Free market is full of political, ideological decisions and military coercion.
>>72931546
> Social Democracy worked...
Until the oil money runs out and they need to implement mass migration to compensate for an ageing population.
>>72931805
>Poland gdp per capita 1990
1700
>Poland current Gdp per capita
13.647,96
>Romania Gdp per capita 1990:
1700
>Romania current gdp per capita:
9.499,21
Those countries have improved. And I am not even taking into account other favourable factors.
>>72929772
>muh ye olde glory
>we wuz naval power n shiet
stfu achmed and go back tossing your goat or smth
>>72932087
Again: You're citing 1990 levels, directly after the crash.
GDR had the same problem, tons of factories got sold out for spare change, others were simply closed.
If you want to be fair, check before the crash.
>>72928919
Fascism? Hells yes please, especially if it's that cool sexy cat pulling the lever.
>Make all the things great again!
>>72931324
libs literally believe facsist = racist
the words sound similar and they think they mean the same
and since trump wants to deport illegal immigrants, who are mostly spic, they call him a racist
>>72931805
WHAT?!
You have no idea what you're talking about son, shut the fuck up.
This is probably the most ignorant flat out lie I read on /pol/ this week.
>>72928919
Bernie memes are not Dank as the Trump.
>>72932087
Those countries haven't improved. Better talk to a native of those countries. It's miserable what's happening to them. At least we (Greece and Spain) had some fault in our problems, they didn't. Their countries are byproducts of capitalism, full of impoverished people. Of course it's the Soviets fault that let this happen. Yeltsin, Gorbachev..
>>72928919
G A R Y
J O H N S O N
2 0 1 6
>>72932192
And also, the house and medical care was included, while now with the 600 euro salary it isn't.
>>72932192
>>72932289
The crash wasnt even that big. If you guys really believed that in one year the gdp drop was of 900%,you must not be pretty smart
>>72928919
You pushed too much, too fast.
If you waited and kept the slow pace for another fifty years, you would have won.
But now, genocidal fascism is inevitable.
>>72932289
Why are capitalist parties winning with sweeping results if the locals dont preffer capitalism over comunism? The countries are bad, but they were absolutly way worse under commie rule
>>72932605
Because they don't have political autonomy. The GDP and the countries belong to multi-nationals or local capitalists that profit from the situation. Russian oligarchs anybody?
>>72932511
It was a 7% loss two years in a row. If this happens normally in capitalism, it's called a massive recession.
It happened after five years of solid growth figures.
>>72932289
> Those countries haven't improved. Better talk to a native of those countries. It's miserable what's happening to them.
The minimum wage has doubled in 4 years. The number of jobs are constantly growing. I used to not be able to buy a pack of gum and now I won my own house, have a mercedes e class, and have a fully specked macbook pro/ipad/iphone. I regularly go on vacation around the world and have a very good life.
You have no clue what you are talking about. 99.99% of people here hate anything to do with socialism. We are hard working and expect that a person which works hard to be successful and lazy ones to be poor. We survived as a nation through hard work, not through gibs. Before communism romania was one of the top european countries.
>>72932781
Sure thing. Your damge control is too obvious. From:
>They are just on the 89 levels
To
>Well,capitalist own shit,so they could be better
Polish people are 10 tomes wealthier than a couple of years ago. I dont know how that in is bad in your litrle twisted mind
>>72928919
if you're going to say bernies socialism has never been tried and its the version that will work i'm going to say the same about trumps fascism. americans are pretty much fascist with their extreme nationalist patriotism.
>>72930091
Miranda Kerr.
>>72928919
We want fascism. We want King trump
>>72929038
>Trump isn't a fascist.
>>72934555
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>72934555
A
BURNING
LEAF
>>72932922
I wish that was the case in 1st world democratic countries today :S
>>72928919
Explain yourself
>>72928919
>SOCIAL DEMOCRASY: a political movement that incorporates everyday participation in bread lines and reddit fags raids on 4chan
>>72928919
If you're not aware, this image was literally made by people who design propaganda
>>72929109
I would say less than 1% of people know what fascist actually means, probably less than 10% of people who are politically engaged.
Trump is legitimately slightly Fascist, but not for the reasons any leftists think he is.
Lots of bourgeoisie shills in this thread
Socialism will always triump in the end
And I don't mean watered down Bernie Sanders "Socialism."
>>72939073
Yes. Venezuela is "triump"ing right now.
>>72939073
I'll triumph in your end.
>>72928919
>Fascism
Extremely effective and successful political ideology that has universally made its countries great again until being destroyed by globalists.
>Oligarchy
Weak, failed system.
>Social Democracy
Weak, failed system.
Think the choice is pretty clear. America is the one country that Globalists couldn't destroy if they wanted to.
Political/economic systems will never solve the inherent conflicts and dysfunction of the human condition. People are fallible and will mess up regardless of what system you put them in. Some systems are better than others, but none are going to be utopia. Typically societies that strive for utopia end up turning into basket cases.
>>72928919
In what way is Trump a Facist?
Also
>purposely putting Socialism as """"""Social"""""""
>>72939978
I often wonder this too. Nothing about Trump's platform caters to mega corporations. If anything the "fascists" are the neo-cons that are threatening to back Killary.
>>72929283
JFK/Nixon Liberal, the view of most Americans last time it was great again (50s/early 60s)
>>72939237
I made a typo
But yes Chavez is fucking based
>Trump
America
>Hillary
Sweden
>Sanders
Venezuela
>>72928919
Fascism is good.
>>72934555
FALLEN LEAVES
FALLEN LEAVES
FALLEN LEAVES
ON THE GROUND
>>72940206
>But yes Chavez is fucking based
If by based you mean dead then yes. Yes he is.
>>72928919
They'd all be the head of state in a democratic republic with checks and balances and still have to work with congress. Just because a president is slightly more left wing or supports building a wall doesn't completely change a government. Whoever made this hasn't taken 10th grade civics yet.
>>72934555
>>72940141
Neo-cons are so god damn fascist it's ridiculous, they actually deserve the term
>>72939978
Socialism and social democracy are actually entirely different things but these retards who fucking claim to support one or the other (or both) are too stupid to actually understand that. It's like confusing a vaccine with the virus it was meant to treat, they might seem similar but they're completely different in terms of their purpose.
>>72940206
Go fuck yourself, you commie fuck. Chavez destroyed my country and now we're literally starving to dead. You say Chavez is based while living in capitalism. So go fuck yourself, you hipocritical dipshit.
>>72929038
>Also Trump isn't a fascist.
You're funny and gullible.
>>72928919
Even if socialism was democratically decided, it's still oppression.
>>72942272
>the most ironic post on /pol/ right now
>>72940282
This
>>72939978
He has fascistic views, but it's really just new york values
>wants to outlaw freedom of speech (see comments about chaning libel/slander laws)
>supports single payer healthcare (control healthcare, control the people)
>>72942383
Trump wants to change libel/slander laws to legally jail people who would dare to point out his stances on issues that he has lied about. How is that not a fascist?
>>72931065
That's communism thanks
>>72940206
I could understand some deluded liberal idiot supporting Chavez in 2006 when at least their economy was growing, but with 700% inflation and Venezuela in complete collapse you must be a real fucking idiot
>>72931805
>Drugs
lol
Romania isn't doing to well because the media and a prevalent party are controlled by an ex-communist thug and his asswipe goons, who are corrupt and remain in power through deceiving retired, senile, or simple people. It looks as though it's getting better, though.
>>72941684
a meme political party in australia seems to be a fan on mr Chaves. its quite comical, really
https://socialist-alliance.org/policy/international-solidarity-latin-america/venezuela
>>72939073
>>72939073
Typical socialist activist.
Considering capitalism is the hegemonic power right now it makes sense that socialist countries perform less well than capitalist ones. This is becsuse they often suffer from trade embargos and political assassination.
There simply cannot be a good example of the socialist state throughout history because it has been sabatoged by the capitalist to erase an opposing narrative and make words like communism and socialism appear like negative buzzwords when they have historically been causes that the people themselves cherished in revolutions against their oppressors.
>>72931886
>people forced out of the market for not embracing the free market.
yes thats all they were doing.
not, you know, subjecting their people to a shit life that they take 80 mile raft rides
>>72941684
Put the guasacaca down lads. Looks like Venezuela already brought the heat.
>>72929109
Are you kidding me?
>>72931886
>I mean, you know why Castro nationalized the US businesses on Cuba in the first place? That was in response to the general US embargo.
this is hilariously false. are you seriously a cuban revisionist? you do know america was not the only world power back then?
>>72928919
Trump is pro-free speech.
Bernie wants to repeal Citizens United, a case won against the government when it tried to censor a Hillary documentary.
Who's fascist again?
>>72944294
>free trade hurt by protectionism
Yeah and?
Command economies don't work
>>72942658
Great meme, kiddo.
Trump wants to open slander laws so that instead of PROVING MALICIOUS PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF FALSE STORIES, which is legally impossible, to PROVING IT WAS FALSE. Which is incredibly difficult, possible, but still protects the defendant's right of "innocent until proven guilty".
If you have a problem with media having a legal incentive to not post false information, I don't know what to tell you
>democratically elected with a fixed term
>dictator
>>72928919
Fascism is ot a mere dictatorship, what's left out is that it's the marriage of the government and national corporations for the "public good.
Oligarchy is not exactly a form of government, rather a symptom of its structuring. Hillary is an international collaborator, a la through AIPAC, CFR associations and connections to high finance. She's just corrupt.
Social democrats are communists by any other name, or more appropriately, sleeper revolutionary socialists. Any reading of the Russian revolution explains precisely what their agenda is.
>>72928919
Trump has done so well because he's plain-spoken and embraces our right to freedom of speech. On the other hand, Bernie Sanders and his supporters are quick to denounce and demonize Trump for his words, and attempt to censor his supporters and their rights to freedom of speech and expression, which are /actual/ signs of fascist behavior.
>>72944110
>Wearing the uniform of a homophobic mass murderer
wew lad
>>72941684
I see your putting your 4 hour of electricity a day to good use. Best of luck
