>ITT: True Anarchism
Only true anarchists can post in this thread. An-Caps are the only true anarchists as they are the only one that stresses volunteerism over stupid Marxist ideas like exploitation.
Great article by Caplan about the 'anarcho'-socialists of Spain
http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/spain.htm
>>72923924
How old are you? It seems an-cap is the new punk.
>>72923661
>ancap
>Only true anarchists
>>72924237
That's because people are waking up. They are seeing the damage that governments are doing and they have had enough.
>>72924299
I see. So when they see it, they'll go.. vote for another government.
>>72923661
anyone seen the "sassy socialist memes" jewbook page? they either post ironic shit like "we have seized the memes of production" or make fun of ancaps
thats right, commies who dont fucking work making fun of ancaps.
>>72924286
left anarchy is meme worthy
>>72924406
Usually what happens is that they become a minarchist but you know how it goes.
Q. Whats the difference between an anarchist and a minarchist?
A. About 6 months
>>72924452
This. It seems that the argument by all left 'libertarians' is that communes are better than normal enterprises and you would be stupid if you disagree. Of course, they don't think you should be allowed to be stupid and must be brought into the collectinve 'for your own good'.
>>72924286
Why wouldn't they be?
ANCAPs are as retarded as communists and equally as destructive.
>>72925793
They couldn't be more different, you retard.
>>72924237
I've heard that Murray Rothbard was the first ancap, but I became one after reading "The Machinery of Freedom" by David Friedman (Milton's son) which was published in 1968 (I read it in 2000)
anarcho capitalism isn't new
>>72926022
I dunno where this idea of AN-caps being young came from. It's a legitimate ideology that is finally getting its time in the sun.
>>72923661
>An-Cap
more like 'a hat'.
>>72923661
anarchism can't prevail, anarchism ignores the reality of the world, anarchism fails on defense and shared facilities
>ancap
>not minarchism
>>72926438
Unlike you, I don't care what people wear
>>72926696
This senpai
>no national army
>get invaded by leafs
>tfw half the an-cap/libertarian community has drunk the trump coolaid
FUCKING STEFAN MOLEYJEW
>>72923661
>ITT : full blown retards.
>>72926696
Basically fucking this. Night Watchman State > Anarchy, even Libertarians agree that we need -some- government.
>>72927139
Truely, a lasting shame
>>72923661
>An-Cap
>>72927276
No. Libertarians follow the non-aggression principle. Governments operate on force.
>>72923661
In an anarcho-capitalist society, what stops someone from just setting up a state and taking over your land?
>>72927446
This. Minarchists are just anarchists who havn't thought through their ideology.
>>72927504
In a statist society, what stops the state from taking over your land?
>>72927276
Statism is archaic and obsolete though, we don't need rulers that claim to be above us and our property/rights, decentralized authority at or below the level individuals and their property is clearly the future.
>>72927139
why not?
he's a funny guy and US politics are a joke anyway
>>72927632
Laws? Constitutions?
I'm a minarchist, have been for quite some time, but get pissed by millenial idiots who try to promote the libertarian ideology using shitty rhetoric.
Belief is good, but please shut the fuck up until you gain some knowledge of what you're discussing. Otherwise you bring shame to the people trying to argue for it, and you're no better than the teenage commie faggot trying to start a revolution because it's cool, but has no idea what communism actually stands for.
Thanks.
>>72927863
>Laws? Constitutions?
A piece of paper will keep the state from shooting you, raping your wife, and taking your resources?
>>72927863
What I'd like to know is whether Bastiat is taught in France or who's ideas became more popular than his? I'm assuming it's another Keynes/Hayek situation where the hack ends up more popular?
>>72927446
>muh NAP
And this is why the LP will never gain traction with Joe Q Public. The idea of minarchism is to do as little personal intrusion as possible while still maintaining a functioning government. Shit ain't gonna be flawless, anon. We're only humans.
>>72927632
independent judiciary
>>72928281
Governments function on force. Why is a government of any size that uses force preferable to no state?
>>72928078
Actually, to some degree, yes. If your population isn't cucked, the state generally has to respect that. That's kind of what your 1st amendment is supposed to guarantee.
Unfortunately the US has become a country of mindless exploited drones that can't see what's happening to them, and are content to be manipulated. Mainstream media perpetuates useless red herring debates on useless topics to prevent people from realizing what's going on.
>>72928102
>Bastiat taught in France.
Lol.
Your only chance of uncovering Bastiat is through individual research or going to Uni and having the incredible luck to fall on a non-retarded prof. And this will only be at grad level, not undergrad.
French education system, although still one of the better public systems in the world, fails when it comes to political theory and government. Under the guise of "citizenship classes" or "republican teaching", a massive propaganda happens to cuck our youth.
>>72928389
>1st amendment
Of course I means second amendment. Fuck me, still waking up.
>>72923661
>>72928362
Are you going to raise a private army to protect the entire continent as efficiently as a government could? There is still a need for a government, small as it may be, to
1. Maintain neutral legal arbitration for its citizens
2. A policing force to protect citizens from fraud, aggression against persons and property, theft and breach of contract
3. Maintain a standing defense force for the nation
>>72928698
>Are you going to raise a private army to protect the entire continent as efficiently as a government could?
Private armies are WAYYYYY more efficient than government armies.
>>72928871
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
That logic would mean that you'd have a bunch of third-world somalian mudslimes that come a dime a dozen to defend your new nation.
Fucking shitbird, think before you argue.
>>72928698
>1. Maintain neutral legal arbitration for its citizens
Can be done privately without the state.
>2. A policing force to protect citizens from fraud, aggression against persons and property, theft and breach of contract
Can be done without the state.
>3. Maintain a standing defense force for the nation
Can be done without the state.
>>72928698
Are you going to raise a big corp to make shoes for us to wield shoes?
no
Private security already exists, you can take examples of the serious levels it reaches at shit holes like south america
Individuals can make colectives when interested, like justice jurisdictions, setting them by voluntarism, just as defence forces.
All the social constructs would be made up from contracts instead of force and coaction.
There would still be force and coaction, but it would be legitimated by the agreement instead of a third party will to rule everyone else's life.
Do you even know what contracts are?
>>72928871
I'd love to hear plans for drawing up, equipping, maintaining and paying a private army large enough to police our northern and southern borders along with our coastal waters while also working as border control agents at designated entry points.
>>72929114
>I'd love to hear plans for drawing up, equipping, maintaining and paying a private army large enough to police our northern and southern borders along with our coastal waters while also working as border control agents at designated entry points.
Does the state do this now?
>>72928982
>1. Maintain neutral legal arbitration for its citizens
Can be done privately without the state.
How do you guarantee neutrality in that case? How do you prevent someone from just bribing/using force to influence a potential verdict?
What the fuck are you on about? "Live Court brough to you by Nabisco - Tasty Law for Just Cookies".
>2. A policing force to protect citizens from fraud, aggression against persons and property, theft and breach of contract
Can be done without the state.
I don't even know how to answer. Free market will mean any private security force will take its workers from third world shitholes to pay less. You want your police to be a bunch of illiterate somalians? They'd be more prone to stealing from you and raping you than saving you. Look at current private military contractors and their recruitment.
>3. Maintain a standing defense force for the nation
Can be done without the state.
See previous.
Just see:
>>72928932
>>72929245
>How do you guarantee neutrality in that case? How do you prevent someone from just bribing/using force to influence a potential verdict?
How do you guarantee neutrality when the state has a monopoly on law?
> Free market will mean any private security force will take its workers from third world shitholes to pay less. You want your police to be a bunch of illiterate somalians? They'd be more prone to stealing from you and raping you than saving you. Look at current private military contractors and their recruitment.
I wouldn't hire anyone who was illiterate, or Somalian. Why would I buy their services if they are shitty rapists and thieves?
>>72928389
Which French candidate for 2017, if any, would you say is the closest to an economically liberal/libertarian stance?
>>72923661
>2016
>Being an Anclap
You're 4 years too late newfag, fascism is where it's at now.
>>72929243
The federal government does, yes.
>>72928982
>neutral arbitration privately
Until someone pays them to be not neutral.
>Private police force
Quickly devolves into simple muscle for the owner, also enforcement of laws would be open to competition, making perceived slights punishable by large fines to maximize revenue for the enforcement company.
>Private army
All of the above.
Your idealism is showing, an-cappers. Your system (or lack thereof) requires a level of inherent cooperation and goodness from every single person bordering on sainthood. Minarchism is much more pragmatic.
>>72929401
Wow... you seem dumber and dumber every time you post.
>How do you guarantee neutrality when the state has a monopoly on law?
By having a night watchman state, following a constitution, ratified by a legislative branch directly elected from the people. By having an independant judicial branch directly elected from the people. Easy.
>I wouldn't hire anyone who was illiterate, or Somalian. Why would I buy their services if they are shitty rapists and thieves?
Are you seriously implying you would be the one hiring? This isn't some bodyguard type shit we're talking about. Some private megacorp would handle security, would hire the cheapest service they could find, and import it. Then you'd buy some kind of contract with that corp to answer your 911 calls should you need it. Basically the same as current insurance. You'd have no say on who they hire. Follow your logic dipshit.
This is the type of senseless argument that pisses me off. Think things through and educate yourself before attempting to debate.
>>72929433
If any. Libertarianism is quasi-inexistant in France, and has been for quite some time. The longing for individual freedom has been put aside by the vast majority, who enjoy a strong executive that comes with the 5th Republic's constitution.
The closest we can get with a mainstream candidate for 2017 would be Juppe, who allies center and right. But I disagree with a lot of his policies. Lesser of all evils type scenario.
Le Pen is just plain retarded, and would bring France to her knees.
>>72929691
>By having a night watchman state, following a constitution, ratified by a legislative branch directly elected from the people. By having an independant judicial branch directly elected from the people. Easy.
So mob rule decides?
>Are you seriously implying you would be the one hiring?
Is the concept of voluntary exchange lost on you?
>>72929920
>So mob rule decides?
Isn't that Democracy in a nutshell? Socialism based on 51% of the vote?
Republics are much better (albeit still flawed) systems.
>>72929691
>Le Pen is just plain retarded, and would bring France to her knees.
Why?
I get the impression that Juppé is too moderate on most issues.
>>72929920
Mob implies disorganization. Which is basically what you're arguing for with anarchy.
A true direct democracy is an organized mob, where each citizen has the same power to choose their elected representatives.
So no, but nice bait.
As for your "voluntary exchange", I think you need to pause and think a little about the scenario you envision. This isn't some personalized security we're talking about, but massive nationwide companies competing to provide security to you, all the while maximizing their profits. You would not get a say in what exactly you wanted, merely in which company you chose.
Look at the state of current internet providers in the US. Do you want that to guarantee your security?
>>72930174
Juppe is quite moderate, which is why I called him a mainstream candidate. However his stance on immigration aren't too shabby, he has a good, rational position on education, healthcare, and reduction in gov spending, he has a strong military position, etc. Lots to disagree with, but by far better than anything else in LR or PS.
Le Pen is just a pure demagogue. She knows she has no true chance of winning 2017, so she uses rhetoric to try and get into the second round to promote her party.
France leaving the EU, going back to the Franc, closing all borders, expelling everyone, having a state-approved culture (ban on books, music, art, ...), would just cause massive retaliation and backlash, and drive France down an economic hellhole. We'd become the new Moldova basically.
Huge social unrest would follow, probably end up with the rest of EU invading us to "pacify" the land.
>>72929992
>Isn't that Democracy in a nutshell? Socialism based on 51% of the vote?
Yes.
>>72930334
I see, thanks for clarifying. Juppé will probably get elected anyway, I don't see another alternative.
>>72930183
>This isn't some personalized security we're talking about, but massive nationwide companies competing to provide security to you, all the while maximizing their profits. You would not get a say in what exactly you wanted, merely in which company you chose.
Choice sounds great. Definitely a lot better than being forced to pay $700 billion per year to fund a military monopoly of which I have no choice in participation.
>Look at the state of current internet providers in the US. Do you want that to guarantee your security?
If I started my own telecommunications network tomorrow without any government licenses, the police would come to my place of business and shoot me for not having state licences. Internet providers in the US suck because they have been given government monopolies, there is no free market.
>>72930343
So in essence you seek to create a stateless socialist...what, collective? Are you honestly advocating communism in a roundabout manner?
>>72930579
I never mentioned socialism, communism, or collectivism. Stateless societies do not have any of that, only individuals who have individual human rights.
>>72930183
This is where
>inevitably having to bend to the will of megacorps
>"anarcho" capitalists
k e k
The only way to be a real anarchist is to co-exist with society but not be a part of it. Being anarcho-x is a fagtastic pipe dream
>>72930530
I gave a very basic two line overview, but if you follow through on the consequences of Le Pen's proposals, you can see it leads straight to hell.
The sad thing is that if a true libertarian/minimal government candidate came along, he'd be massively popular... But in France we like to yell and complain, but not actually take action.
We have two great enemies today... The modern day aristocracy made up of the new elites, the enarques, the sciences po, and the entire bloated corrupted "Administration", and the massive "fonctionnaires" (government employees" who directly benefit from a large, omnipresent government. And I say this as a graduate from Sciences Po.
>>72930531
You just don't want to understand, and I'm tired of trying to educate you.
>>72930655
.
Except if you have absolutely no state, there is nothing backing up your pie-in-the-sky "individual rights". Mankind is inherently evil and selfish. I guarantee you that any true stateless society would devolve into walking dead type shit.
Anyone with reasonably normal IQ and education, who has researched the subject, advocates minarchism, or some form of VERY limited government to enshrine basic rights and services, while letting the free market provide all the comfort and extras.
Anarchism is as unrealistic as communism. Potentiall interesting in theory, destroyed by mankind's nature.
End of story.
>>72930803
Define megacorp.
>>72930869
>Except if you have absolutely no state, there is nothing backing up your pie-in-the-sky "individual rights".
You are born with rights, they aren't granted to you by the state. Stop worshiping your masters, cuck.
>>72930876
I don't need to.
Any entity or group of such growing too large is dangerous to one's individual rights. It doesn't matter if it's "government" or not, or if it is in the way you typically define it.
If you actually think it through you'll get to it, don't worry.
>>72930976
>Any entity or group of such growing too large is dangerous to one's individual rights.
Groups are made of individuals. There's no such thing as a collective.
>>72930938
I said "backing up" not "giving you" dipshit.
It's not because you see man as having inherent right that your neighbour won't assfuck you, cum on your face and steal all your shit if nothing is backing you up.
Once upon a time we had religion to force morals on people, and prevent them from doing sick shit by rendering them terrified of an afterlife. This is back when there was no organized police force.
Now that religion is out, laws, and fear of punishment, is the only thing covering your ass.
Are you really that dumb, or just baiting on purpose?
>>72931015
That doesn't mean anything.
Call me back when your rifle defends you against a massive entity who wants your land for another factory and you get cucked because there's no one to help you fight back, kiddo
>>72930876
Ok Bill Clinton. "Massive nationwide companies" as stated in >>72930183 and you agreed sounded amenable in >>72930531.
>>72930938
>stop worshiping your masters
The whole idea of minarchism is to create a system that treats you as an equal instead of a serf while maintaining sovereignty over its borders. The night watch state defends the defenseless. Your inborn rights are begging to be infringed upon by someone smarter, bigger, better equipped and meaner than you. Anarchism is Darwinism, nothing more. And in my experiences with anarchists, none of them are going to be surviving long if ever faced with their societal grail.
>>72930869
>if you follow through on the consequences of Le Pen's proposals, you can see it leads straight to hell.
Give me one proposal who goes in that direction please.
I have this tendency to think that if we don't do shit about change hell will come sooner. In anyway, we are fucked.
>>72931210
Taken directly from www.frontnational.com, official 2017 propositions.
Randomly picked while trying to eat lunch.
>Removal of the Euro, replacing by the Franc.
Immediate retaliation from EU member states, trade sanctions against France, tariffs prevent any kind of export, death of French manufacturing, huge devaluation of the new currency because foreign investment are terrified of the new protectionist French state, French people lose everything in a Greek-like debacle.
>State and all administration have the obligation to purchase any and everything from French companies and not buy foreign.
While giving preference is good, this is completely against the free market. Huge explosion of government spending because a lot of French companies are not competitive for such huge clients as the French government.
>"Taxe Habitation" put under income tax
Money will now go to the central gov instead of local municipalities. Going against the "decentralisation" policy of the past 40 years. Going back to a strong central gov instead of giving more power to local elected.
>Any public demonstration against her immigration reform will be outlawed.
She's actually advocating the revocation of freedom of assembly and expression on this topic. And god knows the French love to parade in the street.
And more and more and more, but can't be arsed to go on.
And all of this, of course, with massive social unrest going on.
We are definitely heading slowly towards a clusterfuck, but I sincerely still hope that we can have some kind of "bloodless revolution" and usher in a 6th republic that will be more streamlined, less bloated, and more free.
Maybe I'm just naive...
>>72931182
>Your inborn rights are begging to be infringed upon by someone smarter, bigger, better equipped and meaner than you. Anarchism is Darwinism
Well said brother man.
Anarchism is for "too cool for school" millenials and other old hippy fucks. Anyone with any sense realizes that some form of government is required, but must be very limited in order to be efficiently kept in check by its population.
Kind of like the US were supposed to be, before its constitution got twisted and manipulated by the elite.
>>72930531
And how would you pay for that "choice"? No state = no currency.
anarcho capitalism just results in monarchism/feudalism
such a trash ideology
>>72927711
People are retarded. Do you really trust them to be in charge after they ruined every revolution so far and voted shillary?
An-cap is just the 21st century's radical ideology. 100 years from now, people will be laughing their asses off at you.
>>72928078
If the population isn't completely cucked, then yes.
>>72932484
>An-Cap
>21st century
Well I'm laughing at you -now-. No need to wait 100 years.
AnCap is old as shit. It just never gained traction, because the thinkers of the time realized anarchism was a boy's wet dream and the future of manking was minarchism.
>>72931636
>Randomly picked while trying to eat lunch.
Its not "randomly". You took it like a sheep. Because that's what you are hearing everytime in the media system.
>Immediate retaliation from EU member states
Implying EU will still exist after France quit.
...
>against the free market.
Is it bad because it's going far from your religion ?
>"Taxe Habitation" put under income tax
That's ridiculous that you found that little shit as an argument.
>Any public demonstration against her immigration reform will be outlawed.
Source please ?
>>72928982
Private companies will help whoever has the most buckets of money > rich people will dominate their area > oh, look! We're back to Feudalism!
>>72932733
Are you retarded? My examples come straight from the official program. Link: http://www.frontnational.com/pdf/projet_mlp2012.pdf
>Implying EU will still exist after France quit.
Hahahahahaha typical French arrogance, thinking we still are the center of the world. Of course EU will endure if France quits, at least for a few years, sufficient enough to see us buried.
>Is it bad because it's going far from your religion ?
I don't even know how to answer that level of stupidity.
>That's ridiculous that you found that little shit as an argument.
As I said, it's an example I picked while skimming the official program. However it clearly exemplifies the FN's will to have a strong central government, instead of decentralized state with limited powers. Take money away from the local govs and hand it to the state, therefore local govs can do shit all for the citizen, who must now rely on the state. Cuck.
>Any public demonstration against her immigration reform will be outlawed.
Link: http://www.frontnational.com/pdf/projet_mlp2012.pdf
Page: 6
Heading: Immigration - Inverser la tendance
Quote: " Les manifestations de soutien aux clandestins seront interdites. "
Sit the fuck down frenchbro. Educate yourself.
>>72933004
Well, you're probably 18 years old dude.
I'm sorry you got pissed, but your lack of knowledge is embarrassing. Actually a lack of theory and a lack of experience because of your young age. No offense but go back to learn something.
>>72933447
So your entire counterargument to my factual statements and actual quotations of MLP's program is an assumption on my age? Courageous, but a failure nonetheless.
I haven't been 18 for quite some time.
>>72933591
>I haven't been 18 for quite some time.
You're still in it.
Your facts are "proposals". And you are thinking about the consequences. That's projection.
Plus, the last one was a total lie.
>Any public demonstration against her immigration reform will be outlawed.
" Les manifestations de soutien aux clandestins seront interdites. "
There's a gap between the two things, should I explain ?
>>72933905
You can easily double that number, and then some.
Of course I'm thinking of consequences you retarded mongoloid. When I'm choosing a new leadership for our current system of government, I study the proposal, use rational thinking to foresee their consequences, and then decide on whether I agree with them. Do you vote without thinking? Probably.
"Les manifestations de soutien aux clandestins seront interdites." literal translation: "All demonstrations of support to illegal immigrants will be outlawed".
Since much of her immigration program is about a huge reduction in immigration plus deportation of all illegals and non-active legal immigrants, I think it's a rational step to describe it as rendering illegal all demonstrations against her immigration reforms. Retard.
>>72934189
>When I'm choosing a new leadership for our current system of government...
You're so naive...
Well, You learned very well your slave lesson nigger.
>Since much of her immigration program is about a huge reduction in immigration plus deportation of all illegals and non-active legal immigrants, I think it's a rational step to describe it as rendering illegal all demonstrations against her immigration reforms.
again you want to see what you want to see, and you call it rationality.
>you retarded mongoloid.
>retard.
You are projecting again.
>>72934845
I'm still waiting to hear any factual, rational, opinionated counterargument.
Your ad hominem personal attacks bored me.
Keep on enjoying ignorance.
>>72934845
This video is basically your entire argument.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c
