Why are there people here who unironically are opposed to welfare? Why are them so obviously against their self interests? What is the reasoning they use?
Welfare is for black people and single moms. Fuck off you lazy cunt go get a job
If you pay people to do something, people do it.
If you don't want them to do it, stop giving them money for it.
It's just that simple.
>>72575285
>>72575203
>self interest
I'm don't want to waste my hard earned money on some 18 year old nigger who is still in the 8th grade.
Not everyone is a welfare queen like you Paolo
It makes people lazy and complacent.
>>72575285
/thread
>>72575203
>implying there are lots of single parents on /pol/
Are you really this stupid? I know your country isn't known for producing any great thinkers, or producing anything useful really, but it's hard to believe that the average portugoon is this fucking retarded.
I'm saging your shitty thread. You don't deserve a bump from me.
>>72575203
Love me some porn for ants,thanks dad
>>72575285
>Welfare is for black people and single moms. Fuck off you lazy cunt go get a job
Then why is the majority of welfare recipients in America white?
>inb4 percentages
>>72575384
Welfare money is not enough to live a middle class life, not nearky enough. People who want to be rich will still work in a welfare state.
>>72575445
>I'm don't want to waste my hard earned money on some 18 year old nigger who is still in the 8th grade.
So this is a "MUH FEELZ" thing now?
>Not everyone is a welfare queen like you Paolo
I am a student, so you can say i am on welfare.
>>72575496
Source?
>>72575203
Welfare is to help people on their feet not keep them on their feet. People live off welfare and it doesn't bug them, I'd be fucking embarrassed and work my ass of so I didn't have to. Lazy complacent idiots are the problem and you are just aiding them in doing that.
Welfare is a system born out of corporate greed. If a livable basic wage was the floor, we could eliminate welfare altogether. Instead we have the Government suplementing those forced into poverty due to low born socio-economic status and a corporate oligarchy benefitting off the tax payers backs when they fuck up in their never ending quest for getting as much money as possible at all costs. See the 2008 recession for reference.
Not against welfare, just don't think the government should be taking my money to provide it.
>>72575856
>Welfare money is not enough to live a middle class life, not nearky enough.
Not a claim I made, nor relevant to my claim.
>People who want to be rich will still work in a welfare state.
And the people who don't will not contribute anything, which is undesirable for a civilization.
>>72575203
Because less than 10% of it is used as intended
Plus we aren't communists so no free shit faggot
There's a reason Europe turned into a shithole
>>72575856
Good one cunt, now switch the statistics to per capita.
>>72576005
Also forgot to mention the financial systems rampant usury which creates a debt dependent society coupled with the fed fucking with currency and interest rates for the sake of a global economy.
>>72575203
Welfare is not in the interest of people who aren't receiving welfare
>>72575687
Saved thumbnail, what a fucking retard i am. Nevertheless, she is Anna Faith, a girl famous for cosplaying as that kid movie, Frozen.
>>72575930
>Welfare is to help people on their feet not keep them on their feet.
Of course.
>People live off welfare and it doesn't bug them, I'd be fucking embarrassed and work my ass of so I didn't have to. Lazy complacent idiots are the problem and you are just aiding them in doing that.
It bugs me too. But ending welfare is not the solution. Reform it, maybe. Welfare has proven to be a very positive influence in society.
>Welfare is a system born out of corporate greed.
wat?
> If a livable basic wage was the floor, we could eliminate welfare altogether.
I could get behind this. Raise the min wage and eliminate welfare. I would keep unemployement subsides and mother leave maybe.
>corporate oligarchy benefitting off the tax payers backs when they fuck up in their never ending quest for getting as much money as possible at all costs. See the 2008 recession for reference.
This is something that disgusts me. They cry and cry about welfare, but when we adress corporate welfare, they stfu
>>72575203
>welfare
let's call it what it really is:
tax-funded idiot subsidizing
not so appetizing now is it?
>>72575203
It's probably bait, but whatever.
The issue with welfare is that it increases dependence on the government, when there is no need for such thing. Welfare was a political tactic that LBJ took advantage of in order to "keep the niggers voting democrat for the next 40 years". He wasn't wrong.
Let me present my case, dear anon. I know it is anecdotal, but hear me out.: my parents came from Mexico over 20 years ago (yes, legally. Both of them. My dad came here illegally initially until Reagan did his thing, and my mom was wealthy enough to just breeze on over). As soon as they got here, they started working. They didn't have anything to start with; they just brought clothes and went to Seattle for about 10 years, which is when they decided to move to Texas so that I could be born (infertility issues. Texas is a big medical state). I get born, and my parents start pinching pennies as their savings from Seattle run dry.
What do they do? Work double time. As soon as I am old enough, my mom sets up her own business while my dad worked at the airport. This allowed us to be afloat, and has been continuing for about 20 years. There wasn't a single time where we needed welfare. We spend things wisely and do whatever it takes to stay afloat. It's hell on my mother; when tiems are rough, she will lay off an employee and have to do a lot more manual labor at an age where most women retire, all the while increasing the overall workload on the business. Both my parents come home exhausted every day, barely able to function, but we continue to make it.
What I am saying is this: when there's a will, there's a way. America is a land of OPPORTUNITY, where you have resources at your disposal to make it. It requires HUGE sacrificed of time, energy, and mental strain in order to progress. However, it is very much possible. It is very possible without a SINGLE DIME of welfare.
tl;dr
>land of OPPORTUNITY, not free gibs
(Capcha: rivers. Kek)
>>72575856
>Then why is the majority of welfare recipients in America white?
>>inb4 percentages
>What's the answer to this question? Unfortunately, it can't be the answer.
>Welfare money is not enough to live a middle class life, not nearky enough.
Um lol? Maybe in your country. There are welfare cliffs, but at the height of the cliffs families make more than I do as an Engineer when they earn below the poverty line.
https://www.budget.senate.gov/republican/public/index.cfm/files/serve/?File_id=b5c0680b-d78d-4e00-b4f7-00b5d2a8816a
>>72576063
They should be printing it? They should be taxing only others so you can receive it?
>And the people who don't will not contribute anything
It's not like it's impossible to fight this. Put a limit on welfare, like people can't receive unemployment checks for 5 years straight, no matter what and stuff like this.
>>72576088
>Because less than 10% of it is used as intended
Source?
>Plus we aren't communists so no free shit faggot
Neither am i commie.
>There's a reason Europe turned into a shithole
And why is that?
>>72575285
>responding to the tripfaggot "lefty/pol/" bait
>>72576468
Idiots may be idiots but they stil deserve to live. Is it a edgy opinion here on /pol/
>>72576640
>Welfare was a political tactic that LBJ took advantage of in order to "keep the niggers voting democrat for the next 40 years".
Lol, maybe the nigs would vote more for republicans if you guys didn't support segregation nominees to your elections
Any source for this claims? How could the RNC not spot this?
>Your story
Good for your parents. It's good that your parents got lucky and never had a working accident. What then? Can you imagine your father losing one of it's arm on job? What of your family?
We all spit on welfare and state until we need it.
Acess denied to your source. lol
>>72576846
>dissenting opinion is bait
>>>/reddit/
Still havent heard a reason why should we destroy welfare other then "muh feelz", "i/they didn't need it, therefore destroy it xD".
>>72577334
>Idiots may be idiots but they still deserve to live
But they don't deserve to reproduce. And I'm not talking about forced castrations or something of that nature. Just make it economically infeasible but not feeding their weakness with welfare. Society should only take in what makes it stronger.
>>72577580
>But they don't deserve to reproduce.
That is other matter. In my opinion, genetic faulties with moderate change to propagate their genetic faults should not be allowed to reproduce. And niggers because i don0t like niggers. But i don't think we should ban people from reproducing because of their intelligence.
>Just make it economically infeasible but not feeding their weakness with welfare.
>poor people don't reproduce
Look at Africa ffs. You guys are stupid. And i am not kidding.
>Society should only take in what makes it stronger.
We need a bunch of idiots too. Who would go to army then?
bump
>>72577334
>what if your dad loses an arm...
Funny you say that:
He lost his job not too long ago and has been going through hell trying to find a better one. And you know what? He managed to find another one even at his age. I've also seen several amputees working; your point is invalid.
>access denied to your source
You are literally like a child covering his ears saying "LALLAALLALALAALLAA I CANT HEAR YOU".
>nigs not voting rep because "muh racism"
They are more racist than anyone. You also clearly have no idea how interactions amongst nigs are, for you have never seen an actual group American nigs. They pull each other down for "being too white", aka trying to be successful.
>we all spit on welfare and state until we actually need it
That's exactly the thing. Most people DON'T need it. They don't even use it as a crutch.
t. Witness of several beaners using it. They splurge on welfare and just stop working.
>>72577892
>Who would go to army then?
Lol, got a point there.
>poor people don't reproduce
Certainly they do, but at some point they are limited by the fact they can't make enough to feed another mouth without starving. Look at Africa. When their well-being is on the line even idiots will make the right choice. Additionally, the government should offer ways out of poverty (abortion, adoption, educational programs, etc...) if they chose to not want to live like Africans.
The government can offer the poor help without enabling their poor choices at everyone else's expense.
>>72578409
>He lost his job not too long ago and has been going through hell trying to find a better one.
You could sustain yourselves with unemployment subside for how long?
>. I've also seen several amputees working
But their range of jobs is severely limited (especially if you worked with your hands and backs)
>You are literally like a child covering his ears saying "LALLAALLALALAALLAA I CANT HEAR YOU".
This and everything below it is not for you, sorry. Forgot to tag other anon.
>>72576681
>>72577334
This is for you
>>72575856
>Then why is the majority of welfare recipients in America white?
Single white moms that have to pay the toll.
>>72578889
>but at some point they are limited by the fact they can't make enough to feed another mouth without starving. Look at Africa.
Where they breed like rabbits even thou their next day meal is not guaranteed.
>Additionally, the government should offer ways out of poverty
You got yourself the best one already. Welfare.
That welfare needs to be reformed? Sure, i can get behind it. But scraped altogether seems a very rash, stupid thing born from a shielded mind
>>72579379
So there is tens of millions of single moms in america?
>>72579510
>You got yourself the best one already. Welfare.
>That welfare needs to be reformed? Sure, i can get behind it. But scraped altogether seems a very rash
Well, welfare in terms of just giving money to the poor and hoping they use it well is utterly retarded. They will simply carry on; giving them money enables them to not have to change. If a person wants help from the government, the government is at liberty to dictate how that person is to receive that help. Beggars can't be choosers. Honestly, the entire thing is pathetic. The government shouldn't have to be anyone's father. But if there is any welfare that's how I think it would work best. Of course, to most liberals in the US welfare isn't about reform, just pity.
>Where they breed like rabbits even thou their next day meal
I think a lot of that is due to rampant rape, lack of access to preventative methods (condoms, birth control), and lack of access to proper medical facilities for abortions. In a first world country, those would exist and there would be less of an issue of them shitting out kids. Not to mention American blacks have 15-20 IQ points on most Africans.
>>72579626
I don't have a source (think it was Wikipedia, from US census bureau), but some 80% of American blacks are raised by single moms. African Americans are 20% of the population. That's 16% of 350 million, which is 56 million. And that's just blacks.
>>72579179
>>72579379
We could sustain ourselves with my father unemployed for more than half the year, and that is because we had savings.
The range of amputee jobs is indeed limited, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, man.
Again, the main point of my position is that there is already more than enough welfare. There is such excess that it is easily abused. It is supposed to b a temporary boost, as mentioned earlier, and it works beautifully well in theory. However, many people refuse to go the extra mile to get an extra job, or simply a better (though more physically demanding) job.
Let me out t this way: how many black people can be seen working in construction or welding? How many whites? Now how many Hispanics are doing it?
In general, whites and blacks are relatively lazy when it comes to manual labor, so they just go flip burgers or do an office job and then bitch about not getting paid enough. Women especially, with "muh glass ceiling". They then cry for a higher minimum wage and/or more gibs. Hispanic women tend to not work at all, and they are the ones that get the welfare (if the man works)
It is a widespread failure to comprehend what "opportunity" means.
>>72575203
>Why are there people here who unironically are opposed to welfare?
>Government steals my money.
>Gives it to niggers.
>I'm supposed to support this.
>>72577334
>they stil deserve to live
sure
everyone is allowed the right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
just don't make me pay for it
>>72575203
>welfare is my self interest
where the fuck did you get that notion from?
>leftypol
oh, thats how
>>72575203
I enjoy $630 in food stamps and I'm about to get a $3400 tax refund that I'm going to use to pay off my bills and rent and then buy some cool shit. I buy a drink at starbucks with my EBT every time I go grocery shopping and on Fridays we buy take and bake pizza, cheese bread and soda with the EBT. I fucking love it.
>>72580544
>Additionally, the government should offer ways out of poverty
Wrong. Unless the poor is a drug addict.
>They will simply carry on; giving them money enables them to not have to change.
Then cut it after a while.
>If a person wants help from the government, the government is at liberty to dictate how that person is to receive that help. Beggars can't be choosers.
So?
>The government shouldn't have to be anyone's father.
but it's duty should be to fight for the citizens well being. Or is the state only there to call younf men to war, bailout the banks and create arbitrary laws?
>We could sustain ourselves with my father unemployed for more than half the year,
And after those 6 months? And what about that statistic that said that the majority of americans have less then 1000 dollars in savings?
>The range of amputee jobs is indeed limited, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, man.
With unemployment this high, bosses can be chosers. Also amputation was a example. Your father could turn blind, suffer from brain damages... What then? Endemic poverty?
>tHE REST OF YOUR POST
You don't want to remove welfare, you just want people to stop abusing it? We are two.
>>72581164
>lolbertarian
>>72581335
>where the fuck did you get that notion from?
Because if tomorrow you get fired, you enhjoy unemployment until you can find a new job.
>>72581352
Good for you mate. Are you happy?
>$630 in food stamps
per month?
>>72581850
why the fuck am i getting fired out of nowhere
>>72581999
Are you a bussiness owner? neet?
>>72581595
Fucking up the links again my dude.
>Wrong. Unless the poor is a drug addict.
>but it's duty should be to fight for the citizens well being.
How do you reconcile that?
>So?
So... government welfare should be regimens. "We will provide you food, not money for food. We will provide you remedial education, not money for education. We will have a national registry of job openings, use it to find a job you'd like, no money to live while to "search" for a job. If you won't follow the regimen you aren't incapable of the minima of effort or intelligence necessary to uplift yourself from poverty. Guess you should suck dick for money".
>>72582306
answer the question barbosa
Are we going to discuss corporate welfare here or pretend that it doesn't exist?
>>72578268
>those neck ripples
Dropped
>>72575203
At least post the non-ant version, anon
>>72581032
>>72581595
This is also for you
>>72582570
thx, i will save it
>>72575384
this.... omfg...this
>>72582338
>aren't incapable
whoops
aren't capable
>>72581595
>Americans have less than 1000 dollars in savings
And the government is supposed to pay for their ignorance using everyone's tax money? As for tragedies, THOSE peopl who are unable to actually work are the ones whom welfare should be distributed to the most. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen.
Yes. I don't think it should be removed completely. However, it needs to be limited. The issue with welfare programs is that there is an unconditional assumption that the morning given will always be used in the manner intended.
Politics and economics are all about moderation.
>>72576388
no fucking shit really ?
do you want a medal ?
>Why do you hate welfare, anon?
>I work 40+ hours a week at my job
>Most of my paycheck is already taken away from me to begin with through taxes that I may or may not get back because I make a lot, I might even OWE at the end of the tax season
>This tax money then goes into the pockets of broke niggers and Mexican anchor babies who blow it on junk food, cars, new iPhones, all while getting free housing and free schooling just for being a shade of brown
>Bust my ass trying to get into med school, can't get grants or scholarships
>Meanwhile Tyrone gets a full ride because fuck you
>Stupid white guilt ridden spoiled liberals who have never worked a day in their lives and get everything handed to them by their parents think everyone lives this way
>Anon why do you hate it when your hard earned money goes to people who don't deserve it?
>>72576640
>It's probably bait, but whatever.
>i want to appear smart on /pol/ but im gonna add the bait line just to be safe
if you think it's bait why do you reply ?
>>72582449
Now i am confused.
>>72582338
>How do you reconcile that?
Legalize drugs. Make hard drugs only availablt to people that would have to sign a contract that would make him loose all welfare. Have ample and good rehab clinics. Something along this lines. Drug tests to welfare recipients too(only hard drugs. In my opinion using weed as recreational is the same as drinking a couple of beers. A man needs distractions in life).
OP it seems that you don't understand the notion of pride and one's ego. To accept a handout and take someone's charity is demeaning. Some people would rather die honorably than to take someone's charity. Welfare recipients know that they do not deserve (as they did nothing to deserve) such money. That is also why there is a much larger emphasis on getting people to work as opposed to giving people free handouts, as it helps people's ego if they are working for the money (even if the job doesn't contribute to anything at the end of the day). Nonetheless, I can't really say I would prefer a society that values life at the cost of a parasitic lack of honor. A society that values honor is a better society.
>>72583105
why am i being fired
>>72575203
this is what welfare contributes to in both first world countries and third world countries. It doesn't help those who want to help themselves, but are temporarily down on their luck. Those people are a minority among the welfare population. The majority dont want ro help themselves because they know the welfare checks won't stop coming as long as they have a child in their custody.
>>72583180
You weren't a better worker than the guys beside you.
>>72575203
Welfare subsidizes the issues of the communities it is supposed to help. Want to eradicate single motherhood, poverty, etc. from a community? Don't fucking pay people to take part in it.
It's fine for serious disabilities, but that's about it.
>>72583293
sounds like i need to step it up then
>>72582556
I was waiting for a lolbertarian to start with that
>And the government is supposed to pay for their ignorance using everyone's tax money?
The cost of life vs minimum wage/median wage is simply too close so the average people can make any good amount of savings
>As for tragedies, THOSE peopl who are unable to actually work are the ones whom welfare should be distributed to the most.
So you are also not supporting the scrapping of welfare?
>However, it needs to be limited.
In what way?
>>72582908
Well, you're systematic white privilege inhibits black advancement in a constructed Anglo-Saxon society which serves only to depreciate and demoderate black achievements and minority struggles in the daily life of a tyrannical apartheid state ruled by elite cismen who cannot process the aforementioned struggles and privileges and reflect upon their whiteness and our blackness so therefore
GIBS ME DAT
>>72583374
That a boy. Part of being American is working harder.
>>72575203
We're generally not opposed to welfare as a social safety net to help people get back on their feet and re-employed in the workforce.
We're opposed to leeches who exploit the welfare system and stay on it indefinitely, and we're opposed to a welfare system that is so easily exploited by those leeches.
>>72575203
Welfare enables a permanent underclass of society to leech off of successful hardworking people and are a drag on society.
>>72581850
Yep, $630 a month
>>72582999
Because he is a newfag trying hard
>>72582908
So you don't like affirmative action? You think welfare is being badly used by some people? And you think we should destroy something because of that?
>>72583179
>OP it seems that you don't understand the notion of pride and one's ego. To accept a handout and take someone's charity is demeaning.
You are not forced to accept welfare
> Some people would rather die honorably than to take someone's charity.
I'd rather take a fat one in the ass the seing my kids starving
>>72583180
Many reasons. But keep fleeing the point
>inb4 chef at wendy's maym
>>72583857
>keep fleeing the moot point
will do B^)
>>72583207
>but are temporarily down on their luck. Those people are a minority among the welfare population. The majority dont want ro help themselves
In my personal experience it's the opposite.
>>72583343
>Want to eradicate [...] poverty
>Stop giving welfare
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You guys are so fucking dumb and delusional
Welfare is literally the only thing saving hundreds of millions from poverty
>>72583572
Is that shit only available to US citizens? I would feel bad being a leech, but 630 dollars seems alot.
>>72584122
>in my personal experience
the plural of anecdote is not data
>>72583689
Yes, we should destroy it. Welfare should ONLY be used for people who actually deserve it. People who have had horrific accidents and can no longer work, military vets who have had their limbs blown off, or as a TEMPORARY help for people who have lost their jobs and need help finding a new one. It should NOT be used on lazy single parents and their 400 kids to sit around doing fuck and all.
>>72575856
>Source
America is majority white, so it shouldn't be a shocker that they make up a plurality of recipients. 63% of the population make up 30ish% of welfare recipients, while 13% of the population (blacks) make up 25% of recipients. Black people, ob average, are considerably more likely to be on welfare than whites.
>>72583857
>You are not forced to accept welfare
Obviously, but it is about what kind of culture you want surrounding your society. By allowing welfare in the first place, your society is saying "it's okay to take a handout from someone." Which is not necessarily true. Even if you are down on your knees, perhaps it would promote a better culture and not allow welfare. Alternatively, you could have welfare, but teach in schools that it is bad to accept handouts and someone's aid without deserving it, but the impact of such a thing would be that nobody would take your welfare anyways, thus it is de facto the same as not having welfare at all.
This is a rather disturbing contradiction in socialism, or societal based ideologies at large. Preciesely because a healthy society is one that values honor over materialism, and such a thing is lacking in a society that says it is okay to take welfare.
>I'd rather take a fat one in the ass the seing my kids starving
Well that's... like your opinion man.
>>72584251
True, then present some data of welfare abuse
>Welfare should ONLY be used for people who actually deserve it.
>People who have had horrific accidents and can no longer work, military vets who have had their limbs blown off
So people who putted themselves in dangerous situations, get fucked, deserve more then childs who literally did nothing wrong?
What do you guys think about pic related?
Kind of makes your arguments moot?
>>72584483
It's fantastic when demographics alone can answer a question by avoiding any investigation into why those numbers might be skewed.
Next thing you know some liberal will come in here and argue that blacks trying to gain employment are on a 100% level playing field. lol libs.
>>72583572
$900 here mate, my sister popped out a nigger kid and the dad left. Lots of foodbux for me! I'm white, and it's only logical to make use of the system to get free shit if you can.
>>72584592
> but it is about what kind of culture you want surrounding your society.
ok...
> By allowing welfare in the first place, your society is saying "it's okay to take a handout from someone."
lol, i'm not even going to adress the rest of your post. It's like you are preaching to me.
I don't care about your fee fees, you "moral fiber", you community, your "muh feelz".
Because there's a ton of things the government does with my money that I don't support.
Giving money to single moms who can't keep their legs closed. I don't want to subsidize the consequences of their fucking actions in life. Stop being a whore.
Secondly, I don't support my tax money being used to bomb sandniggers. Never have and never will, and yet governments all over the world, think it's their duty and right to use their citizens money to wage aggressive wars.
In short, I don't think welfare should exist. Anywhere.
>>72585033
Libertarian?
>>72575203
Welfare is for people who either don't work at all or don't work hard enough.
I also don't have health problems nor had to pay for college, so social programs offer no benefits to me.
>>72583207
Uh, no. IF you know much about the 3rd world, you'll know that there IS no social security or pension for the elderly. The only safeguard is your own children &/or extended family. So it is inevitable that people have more children than in countries where there is some support for the old. Plus, health care is usually poor, so people have to have more children so that enough may survive.
If you look at Western history, the same trends are seen.
The answer to 3rd world population is to help these countries develop so that they can offer better healthcare & support their elderly. Plus educate women, this helps with both of the other goals.
>>72585098
Does labels matter?
>>72584670
I don't want to pay for any of those but only one supports a capitalist system (hint: its the expensive one)
>>72584967
It's nice to know I'm speaking with a moral nihilist. Now you're just being blatantly hypocritical.
>Why are there people here who unironically are opposed to welfare? Why are them so obviously against their self interests? What is the reasoning they use?
You are appealing to people's "self-interest" or basically "muh feelz" in wondering why people are against welfare. For moral nihilists such as yourself, you should not care if there is welfare or not, as neither is good nor bad.
>>72585178
>Welfare is for people who either don't work at all or don't work hard enough.
You know there is unemployment? And long term unemployment too? what about them?
>I also don't have health problems
Until you have. Then you will beg for gov assistance, like all of us without rich dads.
>>72585316
It's a bit hipocrital coming from me, but yes. To this it matters. Lolbertarians are mostly kids and i can't stand them.
From what i understood from your first post, you are against welfare abuse.
>>72584670
those numbers don't come anywhere close to matching either of the source pages?
>>72575203
has anyone reall been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?????
>>72585475
>From what i understood from your first post, you are against welfare abuse.
I'm against all kinds of state subsidy. This includes money given to a woman who gets pregnant because she is an irresponsible whore, and it also includes money given to a oil corporation.
>>72585475
Might as well kill myself if it gets serious enough that I can't deal with it on my own.
Seriously bro, my health problems are at least 20 years down the road
>>72585416
So capitalism needs corporate welfare to work? Hmmm...
>>72585427
>It's nice to know I'm speaking with a moral nihilist.
Moral is of no concern to this matter.
>You are appealing to people's "self-interest" or basically "muh feelz"
how is self interst muh feels? muh feelz is giving up on self interest because muh feels, like "librals" do with refugges and cuckservatives with abortion.
Self interest is instinctive, not based on feelings.
>For moral nihilists such as yourself, you should not care if there is welfare or not, as neither is good nor bad.
Welfare is good, because it stops people from starving
>>72575203
>Why are there people here who unironically are opposed to welfare? Why are them so obviously against their self interests? What is the reasoning they use?
Encouraging a certain behavior increases the occurences of said behavior.
Giving people money for not working will have a lot of people not working soon enough. And when there aren't enough people working, where would people get welfare from? The system would collapse and it'd come to violence, poverty, crime, death. Society dissolving behavior.
We're kinda good in long term planning. That's what made us successful.
Unchecked welfare doesn't work long term and has therefore to be opposed by people smart enough to see the consequences.
r-selected subhumans and leeches can't into that thinking. Which is why you, Portugal, had to make this thread.
>>72585645
I don't get it?
>>72585689
Don't bother replying to me. I don't want lolbertarians here
>>72585721
>Might as well kill myself if it gets serious enough that I can't deal with it on my own.
sure, mate, you will do it.
>Seriously bro, my health problems are at least 20 years down the road
Things only a kid could say. I'm glad you are healthy. But complicated health problem can come in at any time. I hope it doesn't happen, but...
>>72585746
Like I said, I don't want to pay for any, but if it came down to capitalism succeeding or failing based on whether people pay some corporate subsidies, then I wouldn't hesitate.
>>72575203
Welfare is a vicious cycle. People, niglets, spics, jews, need work. Period.
>>72584243
I don't know, everytime I fill out the application (you have to re-apply bi-annually), there's a thing about "are you an illegal immigrant? it's okay, be honest because this does not disqualify you from benefits".... I do have two chilluns and a wife, so that's why it's so much.
>>72586011
>Don't bother replying to me. I don't want lolbertarians here
Then don't make threads you fucking retarded leftist cuck.
>>72584122
>In my personal experience it's the opposite.
I was a maintenance tech at poor properties for half a decade. I've met hundreds upon hundreds of poor families. Neither the parents nor the children have any intention of changing their lifestyle. Many even glorify it.
>Welfare is literally the only thing saving hundreds of millions from poverty
>be on welfare
>not poor
This is what leftists actually believe. Don't you dare come to the US, you commie faggot.
>>72585746
>Self interest is instinctive, not based on feelings.
That is where you are wrong, in fact your error is in plain sight.
Instincts are feelings, feelings are instincts. Emotions are fundamentally an instinct. You are openly admitting self-interest is a matter of "muh feelz."
To talk about what is "good" or "bad" is fundamentally a moral and ethical question. How does one know what is in one's self-interest if not for some basis for ethics?
Furthermore, this level of defense of self-interest rivals that of Ayn Rand! I'm surprised to see someone with a name like "lefty/pol/" to defend Ayn Rand so much. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
>>72585919
>Giving people money for not working will have a lot of people not working soon enough.
Last time i checked, there was unemploymnet, i.e. people that wanted to work, but couldn't.
>And when there aren't enough people working, where would people get welfare from?
And when will that happen, Sherlock?
>The system would collapse and it'd come to violence, poverty, crime, death.
So let me get this straight. The moment welfare ends because it collapsed there would be violence, crime, death...
But you want to scrap welfare?
>Unchecked welfare doesn't work long term
It's been working pretty great. And i don't even know what you mean with unchecked
> to see the consequences.
What consequences?
>>72575203
Some people work hard for a living.
Naturally they feel angry when some of their earnings are taken away to provide for someone who does not work hard for a living.
Not hard.
Nobody, except for absolute lunatics, is against welfare. If you see people who legitimately need help to get by, and you're confident they'll put it to good use, by all means, give them some of your money to help them out. Ask others to contribute to the worthy cause too. That's noble and kind of you.
What people are against is when you want to give other people's money out. Spending other people's money is always easy - but why should you?
>>72586042
So you are okay with being cornered by capitalists, but you are not ok giving scraps to society poorest?
>>72586290
>>be on welfare
>not poor
Take the welfare off those families
>Don't you dare come to the US, you commie faggot.
I wont, i enjoy living in my irrelevant country. I can walk tthe streets relaxed here
>>72586355
>It's been working pretty great.
yup, just look at Venezuela
>>72586554
your numbers don't add up
it says 90% of the budget goes to "corporate subsidies" but that's blatantly false
>>72586011
The only thing I have to look out for would be schizophrenia and even then, schizophrenia doesn't require medication if you don't turn into a recluse.
I don't want your hypothetical pity. I'll worry about myself, and you can worry about Penaldo and his balloon door
>>72586420
The issue is when those people who work hard for a living get asked specific situations....
What if it is a veteran that doesn't have any legs? - Well yeah, they fought for their country.
What about someone born with a mental illness? - That's a completely different situation anon
What about someone who got laid off because a company downsized and has been actively applying twice a week (requirement BTW) for 3 years but no one will hire them? - WELFARE QUEEN!
The issue is that you draw your line at a different location that someone else, and both of you think your right. So what is the solution to this conundrum? How do you reconcile your line in the sand with someone else's line? Few people would argue people should forever be on welfare.
>>72584877
>being happy your sister got blacked
>your family unity and future is scarred forever with the niglet
Typical leftcuck.
>>72586420
Hot
Then why didn't you revolted against the bank bailouts?
>>72586442
It's my money too.
>If you see people who legitimately need help to get by
My family is poor. The only thing we could do was helping with groceries. And now?
>Ask others to contribute to the worthy cause too.
I am too busy working to be a community organizer. And everyone is poor in my comunitty except for two families, who shut the door in my face. What now?
>What people are against is when you want to give other people's money out.
it's my money too.
>>72586895
>community organizer
This is basically a buzzword for "commie asswhipe".
Guess who else was a "community organizer".
>>72586843
Charity.
Also insurance. Voluntary plans to cover xyz.
Not like it will ever chance until the government gets a hard reset, though. Entitlements are too ingrained.
>>72586895
>Then why didn't you revolted against the bank bailouts?
>You disagree with your government?
>WHY HAVEN'T YOU TAKEN UP ARMS AND DIED FOR THE CAUSE?
It's not the best approach, but ultimately it's not a huge issue.
>>72586680
>Venezuela
>Anything else then a example of what not to do
Your point?
>>72586815
I am happy you are healthy. Just remember disaster can come in at any time
>>72587017
You think anybody as time to be around knocking on other people doors that is not a unemployed mom, a retired and jehova fucking witnesses?
>>72587150
>Charity.
Because it turned out so great before the welfare state
>Also insurance.
Lol. How to spot a retard. Making a bet you will not win, likely.
Insurance is for retards
> Entitlements are too ingrained.
Wanting food, a roof on your head, education and some fun is entitlement? Especially in this times of affluence?
>>72575203
Welfare was intended to keep people on their feet until they can rectify their situation. Something I can approve of.
Problem is that people opted to stay on it instead of actively trying to improve their lot in life. It encouraged irresponsibility and laziness which passed onto their children...now we have the black community.
Being from one, they wear welfare like a badge of honor instead of something they should be ashamed of.
The US desperately needs welfare reform but it would require a massive amount of time, money, and manpower to get these communities under control and investigation into fraud.
>>72587358
>Wanting food, a roof on your head, education and some fun is entitlement?
Wanting it in itself isn't entitlement, but wanting it from taxpayer's money is.
>>72586554
The majority of poor people, again, either don't work/work hard enough or are mentally ill and have drug addictions.
I have no real sympathy for veterans of this day and age considering no war has been fought on my country's soil since 200+ years ago. No one is forcing you to sign up, and let's be serious here, a lot of soldiers (at least in the US) are the dregs of society with no direction. If they have a problem with that assessment, then they can come here and pick a fight with me.
I also will never donate to retard foundations. They serve no useful purpose and are just a black hole for money.
>>72586355
>Last time i checked, there was unemploymnet, i.e. people that wanted to work, but couldn't.
Do you understand what oversaturation is? We tried to revert that problem with lower birth rates but for some reason we had to allow mass immigration that screwed us over.
Not all people are unemployed because they can't find work, and even if they want to - them not being able to shouldn't be subsidized. Sterilize them so that they don't have children and put them to work in state funded projects like building walls at borders if you want those people to earn their living. That'd make more sense than welfare, yet somehow it never gets brought up by the pro-welfare side.
>And when will that happen, Sherlock?
When less money gets put into the welfare pot than whatever amount leaves.
>So let me get this straight. The moment welfare ends because it collapsed there would be violence, crime, death...
>But you want to scrap welfare?
Of course. Why wait until there are more people dependant on it? The chinks have a saying: the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.
>It's been working pretty great.
Your debt says otherwise. Your unemployment says otherwise.
>What consequences?
Now you're just acting stupid on purpose.
>>72587430
>Problem is that people opted to stay on it instead of actively trying to improve their lot in life.
Do people have any source on this. I've seen this claim here multiple times.
>>72587462
But most can't have it by traditional means anymore.
>>72587529
>The majority of poor people, again, either don't work/work hard enough or are mentally ill and have drug addictions.
Don't bother replying anymore
>>72587358
>Insurance is for retards
Sorry that McJob doesn't come with bennies. Hopefully you stay young forever. Guess you'll have dat medicaid to fall back on in the end, though.
>Wanting food, a roof on your head, education and some fun is entitlement? Especially in this times of affluence?
Charity.
>>72587150
This doesn't reconcile the differences though. You believe charity/insurance/voluntary plans is enough, the other person believes it is insufficient.
The thing that I'm trying to break you of is that an issue is not as simple as you being right or wrong, but how do you get the other side to either adopt your perspective, or better yet find a common ground solution that can be adopted. Far to often people think that electing someone different automatically solves problems, and it doesn't and never will.
What is a real solution to this problem, how do you implement your "perfect" solutions? How do you know if charities are providing to much/little support?
Even a hard reset of government does not solve the problem, people still have their ideas of how to solve a problem and the government will migrate back to where it was.
This is the core issue at all political issues, everyone thinks their always right but can't do shit to make the other side switch nor can explain how. Is it education, manipulation, coercion, force? /pol/ never answers this question, I don't expect to get it answered tonight either.
>>72587462
>>72587358
You two are arguing over the word entitlement which has multiple definitions and are using it in different ways.
>>72587649
>Not all people are unemployed because they can't find work
lol, unemployement statistics are usually of how many people are actively looking for job, you retard. I don't think they do it any different in Austria
>Sterilize them so that they don't have children
Why do you guys have such a hard on with sterilizing people? Our countries are in a demographic helhole. We need kids.
>and put them to work in state funded projects like building walls at borders if you want those people to earn their living.
>There aren't enough jobs to do.
>I know, let's create some jobs for millions of people to do with slave work.
Are you more then 16?
>When less money gets put into the welfare pot than whatever amount leaves.
And when will that happen?
>>72587902
Stop talking like a pedantic retard.
>Cut medicare 10%
>Wait 7 years
>Evaluate results
Plenty of other factors to account for, but if shit's still stable, keep cutting.
The deeper issue is that some people genuinely believe that they are entitled to their neighbors' kindness, ie. forced charity through government funds. Some people can't/won't care for themselves, the rest of us are doing pretty well, so what would it hurt to collect the tithe and dole it out to the paupers?
It's an ideological and philosophical difference, not a political one.
>>72587817
We have state funded healthcare here. I don't have to worry about stuff like that.
>Charity.
Charity distributes houses?
You forget to had that most charities are heavily state funded, you retard
>>72587769
>Don't bother replying anymore
This thread better be a troll or I'd be really disappointed in you
>>72588390
I absolutely dispise when people say that poor people are poor because they are lazy or dumb. It show a huge amount of detachement from real world. And it also shows a little of Victorian thinking (rich are rich because they are better, and the poor are poor because they are worse). I don't care for people like that
>>72586870
Of course I'm not happy, my sister married a nignog and the usual happened. But I'm raking in the foodbux because of her mistakes, so w/e might as well make a shitty situation a little bit better.
>>72588286
Ahh, name calling, clearly that is the solution to this issue. You still were unable to answer the underlying question. Since you couldn't, I will simplify the question.
HOW do you implement your solution?
As I said, /pol/ can never answer this. Nothing but theories, memes and trolling.
Regardless of where you think the debate is based, philosophy, economics, religion... whatever basis you want to argue, it is irrelevant if you cannot build a coalition to implement what you believe is necessary.
Sure, you provided a solution, but a solution that a majority people aren't buying into. Remember, I'm not arguing that your solution is right or wrong, just that you don't know how to make it happen.
Stay classy /pol/, I'm out.
>>72588685
I don't believe it's because they are lazy or dumb.
But not being lazy or dumb, isn't sufficient justification for you to take my money.
>>72588348
>You forget to had that most charities are heavily state funded, you retard
Charity is not, by definition, state funded.
Are you going to make an actual argument? All you do is insult and dodge replies.
On the insurance:
>We have state funded healthcare here. I don't have to worry about stuff like that.
Yet you still want to say that "insurance is for retards?" Of course you think that, it apparently doesn't function in your country.
The idea is that people can voluntarily take on obligations, insurance policies, to safeguard int he event of x. With group policies, rates are competitive and proportionate to the risk that you're insuring against.
If you want to prepare for falling on hard times, pay the $3 from every paycheck for the disaster/unemployment/whatever insurance. If you don't, don't come crying when you split your anus on a horse dick and can't work anymore.
Or rather, then it's time to ask your church for horse-split anus assistance.
And yes, many charities in America provide free housing, food, and clothing. That's how charity works.
>>72575203
Because they are on it lol
>>72588896
>HOW do you implement your solution?
LITERALLY IN MY FUCKING POST YOU PEDANTIC RETARD
>>72588189
>lol, unemployement statistics are usually of how many people are actively looking for job, you retard
There's no way to control this in a way to be able to make an absolute statement like that.
If I send off a shitty application and show up to the interview covered in dirt and smelling like shit, then I'm not "actively looking for job" - I'm playing the system.
>Why do you guys have such a hard on with sterilizing people? Our countries are in a demographic helhole. We need kids.
People that can't live on their own are naturally unable to provide for their kids. There are ways to temporarily sterilize people, as long as they are dependent on the tax payer they shouldn't be allowed to create more people dependent on the tax payer. It's simple, really.
The very fact that you argue with unemployed people disagrees with the sentiment that we need more people. Stay consistent please.
>Are you more then 16?
I'm not the one that recoils at the thought of having to do work, lad. You want money from the state in form of welfare.
Let people work for that amount of welfare money. You can label it slave work if you want, but that just shows that your issue isn't with people "actively looking for job" but unable to find one - because that slave work would be a job. And it would be a more dignified way of living than shoving them money up the arse for doing nothing instead, which is what you want deep down. You can admit being a lazy faggot, it's expected from lefty/pol/.
>And when will that happen?
What, do you want a specific date about a prediction that involves variables, you disingenuous faggot?
>>72588685
Kek you can't be serious.
It only takes one of those qualities to manifest itself in some way in order to make the average person poor. It may not make itself apparent nor would joe shmoe admit it, but barring major disfigurement in combination with average or low intelligence, everyone is able to make a living for themselves.
Truly wealthy people have toiled behind the scenes for years to get where they are. I never said they are superior by the goodness of their hearts. But at the same time, that doesn't make them better people? At the very least they know what the real difficult work is.
If someone's situation sucks, they need to stop looking at how much they get paid at a certain job and instead change their surroundings and educate themselves.
>>72589012
>Charity is not, by definition, state funded.
educate yourself
>Yet you still want to say that "insurance is for retards?
Yes, since insurance is a bet. ANd you are playing against a corporation that has been doing it for a long time. And you have to play by their rules
>And yes, many charities in America provide free housing, food, and clothing. That's how charity works.
Then why is welfare needed?
>>72589411
>There's no way to control this in a way to be able to make an absolute statement like that.
Yes there is. Statistics are reliable.
>If I send off a shitty application and show up to the interview covered in dirt and smelling like shit, then I'm not "actively looking for job" - I'm playing the system.
>If i spit in the river, the river is contaminated
Show me statistics that unemployement statistics are wrong
>>72589734
>Kek you can't be serious.
i am.
Bye
>>72575203
not exactly anything wrong with welfare if it's used for good. but niggers going on welfare just because they can is no good reason.
most of the time people CAN work.
>>72590053
>Then why is welfare needed?
Exactly, it isn't. Glad that we won you over.
>Charity is not, by definition, state funded.
>educate yourself
I don't think you understand the comma splice. Charity is not necessarily funded by government. A large portion of all charitable giving is private. That portion would likely increase if gov' funding was ended and taxpayers kept a large percentage to contribute or keep according to their own conscience.
>>72575203
>Why are them so obviously against their self interests?
Fuck off Alberto. Welfare IS against my self interests because more of my money earned gets taken away and given to niggers who refuse to work.
Why should the people who work be made to sustain a parasitic class of people?
>>72590245
thanks for proving you need to get your moorish ass back to plebbit
>>72584670
>militards are bigger welfare queens than blacks
Does this honestly surprise anyone?
>>72576401
>Welfare has proven to be a very positive influence in society.
So creating entire generations of families who refuse to work is something positive?
>>72577334
>Idiots may be idiots but they still deserve to live.
Live by their own means? Yes
Helping their lazy ass survive while they contribute nothing of value to society? No, they can die off for all I care, most of them are in their situation because of laziness. Would you leave leeches on your body and let them suck away at your blood?
Let survival of the fittest take its course, being lefty/pol/ you idolize Darwin, right? They're idiots and while we shouldn't kill them, we shouldn't help them either.
>lefty pol
literally contrarian for the sake of being contrarian
go live in cuba for a year you fucking bitch
I fucking dare you
>>72575203
It's shit and creates a cancerous culture that ruins societies.
>>72591860
it's only shit if you abuse it. Go after those who abuse it.
>>72591947
It's shit period. Private charities received over 350 billion last year in private donations. Why the fuck does the government need to be involved with it? Why does it always get more expensive and never less expensive in terms of budgets? This isn't the land of gibs its the land of opportunity. If you don't bust your ass and don't want to be successful in a free society, get the fuck out of it and go to a nanny state that will pop a tit in your mouth.
>>72590522
>most of the time people CAN work.
I'm sure they can, but what if their area has a high unemployment rate?
>>72575203
>t. alberto barbosa
>>72575856
This is why statistics classes should be mandatory.
Maybe critical thinking for extreme cases like you.
>>72592212
private charities are a joke for the most part. Most of the money is used for salaries and other dumb shit. Also, it can be used to help those temporarily until they get their opportunity, as you said. Those who abuse it should not be able to receive welfare in the future. If anything college students should be #1 priority, not for laquisha and her crack addiction.
>>72575203
>welfare
>against my self interest
fuuuuck you
>>72584967
>ok...
I love how the idea of a culture based on personal accountability is just completely lost on a leftist
You can avoid getting into arguments with liberals about literally anything by switching it to an argument about individualism/objectivism vs. collectivism. Liberals are just incapable of understanding individualism. They lack self-awareness.
Once you really understand this, you'll realize arguing with liberals is completely pointless.
>>72592697
>private charities are a joke for the most part
just one local church gave out damn near 210k to the community last year. administrative costs? also volunteer hours.
not all charities are Make-A-Wish™
>>72584670
Since I'm in the military, can I just keep the money I'm essentially paying myself and my competition for advancement?
