What's something in your countries' history that's viewed as shameful but you may have opposing views on?
>for example the atomic bombs in 1945 are still pretty controversial
>we would have been potentially facing over 1,000,000 casualties if the US had to invade Tokyo
>we made the right decision fuck imperial nips
>Kill civilians to save soldiers
>American logic
Atom bombings were literally terrorism.
There is no way around it.
>>72399253
The number of Japanese civilians killed in an invasion would be much, MUCH higher than from the atom bombs.
France exchanged us for a tiny sugar cane island.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_(1763)
>In turn France gained the return of its sugar colony, Guadeloupe, which it considered more valuable than Canada. Voltaire had notoriously dismissed Canada as "Quelques arpents de neige", "A few acres of snow".
>>72399253
>behead public servants and innocents for weed
>mexican logic
>>72399253
it's not like Hiroshima and Nagasaki were random targets, they had factories or military camps
>>72399640
>Military camps
Is this what Americans call CBDs?
>>72399253
>implying civilians werent soldiers
>>72399341
you aussies woulda had your own nanking if we didn't stop them from reaching your fuck of an island
>>72399036
>implying an invasion would be necessary with Japan's war machine utterly crippled
>implying Japan wasn't going to surrender regardless
>implying the atomic bombs weren't dropped just to scare Stalin
>>72399927
>implying Japan would surrender
you do realize the expected casualties were so high was because literally almost every civilian aka part of their war machine would fight to the death?
>>72400119
Bullshit. The Imperial Army forced people to fight to the death or kill themselves to avoid capture, but with no oil and no ammunition and no communication there is no Imperial Army.
>>72399640
They choose them because the weather, not because the military relevance.
>>72399817
>What are the Geneva conventions?
>>72399927
Japan knew the Soviets were coming for them too, and they were trying to delay the US' victory to allow it. It would have had more leverage when negotiating its surrenders if there were two invaders. The nukes denied them that. Unconditional surrender and Japan is completely under western influence.
>>72399036
Probably the vikings. We've had several americans in our museum asking if we're ashamed over them. I do not know of a single norwegian I've ever met that has been ashamed over the vikings.
>>72399036
Cronulla riots was Aussie sick of getting raped.
Opposite view is they did it out of nowhere because racist.
White Australia Policy
>>72400390
A stack of paper
>>72400390
Made up rules that nobody actually follows.
>>72400390
>he doesn't know GCIV was enacted in 1949
Build the wall Paco
>le atom bombs were necessary meme
http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm
>>72400242
i have to search the sources but the civ. population was equipped with bamboo spears and arrows in preparation of an US invasion. The Japs build thousand of planes just to use them in kamikaze style the day the invasion would have happened. If you believe the nips would have surrendered, why didn't they surrender after every of there major city was fire bombed? And remember these were all wooden cities
>>72401252
well only those dumbass nazis
which is why they lost
>>72402204
They would have surrendered EVENTUALLY. Their economy was thrashed. It would take them everything they have just to survive. Once on the verge of starvation, people start to fight each others for resources more than their invaders...
But it would have taken a while and that was a problem for the US.
Fuck it, total war is total war. I don't like it but that is reality. Why the HELL should we waste more American lives then what was necessary on a war we did not start? Remember that this was a nation who's actions at the time are now called the Asian holocaust. Why should we care about an empire that used sex slaves? Why should we care about a country that would not show us any mercy if we surrendered? Or that tried to conquer Asia? And why should we give a FUCK about the nation that did those things to Nanking?! Absolutely ridiculous.
>>72402826
>They would have surrendered EVENTUALLY
why?because Germany surrendered before the fall of Berlin? Is that your argument? Did you teleported back in time and saw in the alternative future if the Us just waits that Japan would surrender?
>Once on the verge of starvation, people start to fight each others for resources more than their invaders...
you do realize that he japs were far more enduring the Germans? watch some documentaries of japan during us occupation or read up on bushido.
>But it would have taken a while and that was a problem for the US
yeah cause
1. the nips didn't wanted to surrender unconditionally and
2. you do realize that they were butchering there way trough south east asia? Do you want me to believe that you rather have that the japs kill some innocents in asia than the us nukes two cities?
>>72399036
Firebombing civilian targets was worse.
The Japanese dehumanisation campaign was too successful.
>>72403497
>And why should we give a FUCK about the nation that did those things to Nanking?!
Because you have hindsight and know that only 5 years later China was killing allied soldiers themselves.
>>72404759
>you do realize that he japs were far more enduring the Germans?
Doesn't matter. Once the economy collapses, the fight cannot go on. They can be willing to fight until their last breath if they want, but they won't be able to.
>you do realize that they were butchering there way trough south east asia? Do you want me to believe that you rather have that the japs kill some innocents in asia than the us nukes two cities?
Good point.
>the nips didn't wanted to surrender unconditionally
Nor soon enough. That's probably the real reason for the nuclear bombings. Soviet involvement would have given them a lot more leverage when surrendering and Japan could have turned out completely different than what it is now (probably for the worse).
>>72399253
We are under no obligation to value Japanese civilians over American soldiers.
>>72405655
That wasn't really an issue though.
After the nuclear bombings, they kept attempting to justify it by presenting it as a military necessity. That was probably false. The real reasons were political, but the public would have been much less willing to accept those as justifications (and at the time, they weren't sure how to spin them (there was still hope for Russia to become a real ally)).
>>72404999
>that pic
Shiiiiiiieeeeeet
Vietnam, we could have rolled right through the North and ended that war. Instead we spend a decade in the south walking around the jungle. We made no attempt to win and put our men through hell for nothing.
>>72406382
We did win, just when Nixon was kicked out, the North felt that Ford was less crazy than Nixon and so re-invaded. Ford and the Congress did exactly what North Vietnam predicted, nothing.
>>72400291
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were secondary targets on the list, the pilots had to target them instead because of the weather. They didn't just randomly choose a city because the weather permitted you fucking bean burrito
>>72408452
Hiroshima was the target, Nagasaki was the original second target but became the second target after heavy smoke and clouds over Kokura.
There were 5 possible targets to pick from.
>>72408849
Nagasaki was NOT the original second target*
>>72401028
This.
I also work at a smaller industrial museum. Once got asked by an American if we felt shame over the child labour and tough working conditions in the past.
No one today is fucking ashamed over things that happened in the 1800s, we had nothing to do with it.
British imperialism
>if it wasn't Britain it would have been someone else.
>Compared to other nations, the Brits at least cleaned up their act by being one of the first to abolish slavery
>Slavery still exists in shit countries, but we still get blamed for it
Fuck them
>>72400507
however soviet invasion would have probably leaded to japan being seperated like korea into north japan / South japan
>>72399848
LMAOKOKODA
Plus the nips scrapped their plans to invade Aus because they knew id be too much ofa fuck fight. In the end they just wanted us isolated
>>72409158
It really is impressive isn't it.
>>72409128
The US had some pretty bad child labor conditions in the 1800s into the 1900s so I'm not sure why they would bring that up.
>>72409360
I'm guessing they didn't know.
>>72399253
What about Chinese and Oceanic civilians slaughtered during Japans conquest of Asia?
This
>>72409158
It would have been awkward if Scotland left the UK, then you would have to replace the Union Jack. Causing half the World's flags to become obsolete.
>>72399036
Thats right. And you should do it again but this time destroy the middle eastern world entirely.
And atomic bombing isnt terrorism if no human are harmed.
>>72409807
dont feel bad
smallpox, flu, common cold did most of the work for you
>>72409730
NZ would have had to switch to this.
Canadian here.
Yes the shame is electing the current retard in power.
In different stories, especially soviet and Russian propaganda, Poland allied with 3rd Reich during their agression on Czechoslovakia. Truth is there was no open cooperation. While nazis were taking over Czechoslovakia, Poland reclaimed land that was taken away from it the very same treacherous way almost 20 years earlier. In 1919, not even one year after getting independence, newly formed polish state had to face war on the east. Bolsheviks came to power in Russia and wanted to spread communistic revolution all over the world. All of Europe was exhausted after Great War, if we hadn't stopped them, probably noboly would have, but that's not what I want to talk about. While all of the country was involved in bleeding fight on the east, Czechs just decided to take Zaolzie, which they thought belonged to them. Difficult truth is, this area was neither completely Czech or Polish ethnically, it was always mixed.
But taking it back after 20 years was not allying with Hitler.
