http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/04/child-porn-suspect-jailed-for-7-months-for-refusing-to-decrypt-hard-drives/
>A Philadelphia man suspected of possessing child pornography has been in jail for seven months and counting after being found in contempt of a court order demanding that he decrypt two password-protected hard drives
>The government successfully cited a 1789 law known as the All Writs Act to compel (PDF) the suspect to decrypt two hard drives it believes contain child pornography.
>Not only is he presently being held without charges, but he has never in his life been charged with a crime
Land of the free everybody...
cp tho
>>72347320
A FUCKING LEAF TALLKING ABOUT FREEDOMS...
dont you have a sandnigger cock to rub Pang Lee?
>>72347208
If they have a warrant, like in this case, he's gotta open up.
This is really a non-issue. It's the warrantless stuff that is a problem.
>>72347208
you know damn well that fucker has CP on those drives. Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.
>>72347208
So THIS is the 1789 act that FBI was willing to exploit.
Oh boy...
>>72347208
>unironically defending pedophiles
conservacucks, everyone. look at them and laugh.
>>72347453
isn't there a particular structure you should be building, Paco?
>>72347521
>Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.
C U C K
>>72347208
He's doing exactly what apple just did.
I get the feeling this guy is about to get a huge government paycheck.
>>72347208
yeah yeah yeah who gives a fuck
lets talk about how sexy that woman looks
>>72347208
Some other American case a defendant had the courts side with him when he didn't decrypt his drives.
Court stated that just because the government believes something is there doesn't necessarily mean it's true. And something about self incrimination.
Since an encrypted drive could be empty it still looks the same as if data were on it was another thing I read.
>>72347521
>>72347622
>>72347453
Hey Paco, your break is over. Get back to work trimming my bushes and mowing my lawn before I call immigration to deport you
>>72347690
thank you anon :3
>>72347208
Welp, thanks Pablo, I'm mad now.
>>72347659
Only the guilty fear the righteous cock of the law. I'm a tall, white, blue eyed, light-haired, christian, male in the top tax-bracket. Back in your roach hole you go.
>>72347965
You're just as bad as any poo in the loo. Western secular society was founded on the exact opposite of what you propose.
>>72347965
You're trolling, right?
>>72348132
>When will people start pointing out these massive violations of Liberty
when will YOU?
>>72348064
No, I'm trying to be taken seriously on an anonymous image board.
>>72348132
He's not imprisoned for CP suspicion. He's in prison for being in contempt of a court order.
>>72348331
An order to violate his own privacy
>>72348331
In contempt of an unconstitutional court order. Is the AyySeeElJew on this? They should be.
>Muh liberty.
All this idealist bullshit is pathetic.
>"b-b-but it should be like this because it's written down on this paper here!"
Rules are made by whoever has the biggest stick to back them up.
>>72348586
What part of the constitution does this court order violate exactly?
>>72348449
Yeah, because child porn just happens to accidentally end up in someone's house all the time. /s
>>72348886
You want liberty and freedom to be dealt out by a man in a suit, rather than take it for yourself. You're the cuck and this board is the only place you'll ever experience any escape from your miserable existence. Boom roasted.
>>72348308
Some people actually do
>>72347208
what about typing in a different password that unlocks the hard drive but also erases all the data.
could be useful if you are being forced
>>72348998
They don't have to know he has it, they just need a reasonable suspicion that he does.
>>72349371
Then you get hit for destruction of evidence
Predators, police in online struggle
http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/news/north-dakota/3885239-predators-police-online-struggle
Court records reveal the North Dakota Bureau of Criminal Investigation has been running an undercover operation on the peer-to-peer network Freenet since 2011...
Essentially, the BCI planted its own computers within the Freenet network, according to an affidavit written by BCI Agent Jesse Smith. Their computers kept logs of certain Freenet users' IP addresses and the codes for what they were downloading, according to the affidavit. Agents then compared the codes with a database they built of codes known to be child porn.
The difficulty lies with telling who ultimately downloaded the child porn because Freenet routes traffic through multiple computers on the Freenet network.
But BCI investigators were able to devise a way to tell which IP address--and consequently, which Freenet user--ultimately was downloading the offending files.
>>72347208
source on that beauty
>>72349637
Police plants own computers in Freenet, log IPs, makes arrest
23 November, 2015
http://www.hacker10.com/internet-anonymity/police-plants-own-computers-in-freenet-makes-arrest/
Freenet, a P2P network routing traffic across multiple nodes to hide people’s IP when filesharing, and often cited by the media as part of the dark web, appears to have been broken by law enforcement.
Court records related to Paul Bradley Meagher, a University of North Dakota police officer arrested for downloading child porn from the “anonymous” peer to peer network Freenet, reveal that the North Dakota Bureau of Criminal Investigation had been running an undercover operation in the network since 2011, planting their own nodes inside Freenet to be able to log people’s IPs and trace the final destination of users downloading illegal material.
The Grand Forks Herald from North Dakota cites detective Jesse Smith in the affidavit as admitting to her department running nodes in Freenet to be able to track people downloading files included in a list of known child porn file hashes from the police database.
[S]o little is known about how they track people. It could be because Freenet has far less nodes than Tor, or because Freenet code has some bug (it requires Java to run).
With further research I found that the ICAC Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force, in 2014 ran a Freenet workshop for law enforcement to present what they called the “Black Ice Project“. Quoted on their website as “This session will describe the basic functioning of Freenet, how persons exchanging child abuse material, the system’s vulnerabilities and how the Black Ice project exploits them.”
>>72349843
Law Enforcement Freenet Project links
https://www.reddit.com/r/Freenet/comments/4es8lv/law_enforcement_freenet_project_links/
67 documents out of a total of over 100 have been confirmed downloaded before the Black Ice Project's clearnet site took them down.
>>72349403
He might still be Innocent.
And how would be prove his innocence? Encrypted drives and pre-formatted / fully formatted drives look exactly the same.
It's also possible he forgot the password.
Or maybe he already deleted or destroyed whatever was carrying the key file to his drive.
>>72347474
If a judge issued a warrant telling you to confess to a crime is the warrant valid?
>>72349986
Quote from the 8/tech/ thread:
They apparently use harvested Freenet IPs and have a way to see all the networks a suspect IP was active on.
I assume they run a few Tor entry nodes to harvest limited IPs too.
>>72349986
Quote from the 8/tech/ thread:
They monitor over 40,000 torrent info hashes
>>72350208
Quote from the 8/tech/ thread:
They weight CP torrent.
1 is legal clothed children
9 is "worst of the worst"
>>72350247
>suspicion of owning pictures can get you indefinite prison time
This is creepy as fuck and way too 1984 for my tastes
>>72347521
>Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.
let me rummage through your e-mails, wife's nude photos, and other personal items...
nothing to hide, right?
it's not as if you should have some basic right to privacy.. as we all know, your only rights are bestowed on you by 'muh gov't'
so the degenerate could stay in jail, without being charged, indefinitely.
Former Tor developer created malware for the FBI to hack Tor users
https://www.dailydot.com/politics/government-contractor-tor-malware/
A former Tor Project developer created malware for the Federal Bureau of Investigation that allowed agents to unmask users of the anonymity software.
Matt Edman is a cybersecurity expert who worked as a part-time employee at Tor Project, the nonprofit that builds Tor software and maintains the network, almost a decade ago.
Since then, he's developed potent malware used by law enforcement to unmask Tor users. It's been wielded in multiple investigations by federal law-enforcement and U.S. intelligence agencies in several high-profile cases.
“It has come to our attention that Matt Edman, who worked with the Tor Project until 2009, subsequently was employed by a defense contractor working for the FBI to develop anti-Tor malware,” the Tor Project confirmed in a statement after being contacted by the Daily Dot.
The Baylor University graduate ... wrote and contributed to research papers with the creators of Tor and helped other members in their work building privacy tools. According to the Tor Project, however, “Vidalia was the only Tor software to which Edman was able to commit changes.”
Tor dropped Vidalia in 2013, replacing it with other tools designed to improve the user experience.
By 2012, Edman was working at Mitre Corporation as a senior cybersecurity engineer assigned to the FBI's Remote Operations Unit, the bureau’s little-known internal team tapped to build or buy custom hacks and malware for spying on potential criminals. With an unparalleled pedigree established from his time inside the Tor Project, Edman became an FBI contractor tasked with hacking Tor as part of Operation Torpedo, a sting against three Dark Net child pornography sites that used Tor to cloak their owners and patrons.
>>72350453
At Mitre, Edman worked closely with FBI Special Agent Steven A. Smith to customize, configure, test, and deploy malware he called “Cornhusker” to collect identifying information on Tor users. More widely, it’s been known as Torsploit.
Cornhusker used a Flash application to deliver a user's real Internet Protocol (IP) address to an FBI server outside the Tor network. Cornhusker—so named because the University of Nebraska's nickname is the Cornhuskers—was placed on three servers owned by Nebraska man Aaron McGrath, whose arrest sparked the the larger anti-child-exploitation operation. The servers ran multiple anonymous child pornography websites.
The malware targeted the Flash inside the Tor Browser. The Tor Project has long warned against using Flash as unsafe but many people—including the dozens revealed in Operation Torpedo—often make security mistakes, just as they do with all types of software.
Operation Torpedo netted 19 convictions and counting, and it resulted in at least 25 de-anonymized individuals.
During the trial of Kirk Cottom, a 45-year-old from Rochester, New York, who would plead guilty to receiving and accessing with intent to view child pornography, the defense asked to see the source code—the human-readable code written by programmers that makes the software tick—behind Cornhusker. The defense wanted a look at the tool that pointed the finger at Cottom. The FBI said it lost the source code. Special Agent Smith insisted he never instructed anyone to destroy the code. The judge said the loss was “unfortunate” but “ultimately of little consequence.”
According to court documents, Cornhusker is no longer in use. Since then, newer FBI-funded malware has targeted a far wider scope of Tor users in the course of investigations. Both Cornhusker and newer techniques, dubbed bulk hacking, have been criticized for their lack of congressional or public oversight.
>>72347660
There's a big difference between him and Apple. He _owns_ the harddrives and as the owner of the relevant storage device he doesn't consent to a search.
>>72350496
In addition to working on Operation Torpedo, Edman also did dozens of hours of work on the federal case against Silk Road, the first major Dark Net marketplace, and its convicted creator Ross Ulbricht. According to testimony, it was Edman who did the lion's share of the job tracing $13.4 million in bitcoins from Silk Road to Ulbricht's laptop, which played a key role in Ulbricht being convicted and sentenced to two life terms in federal prison. Edman worked as a senior director at FTI Consulting at the time.
The Tor malware Edman developed in Operation Torpedo for the FBI has been used in multiple “high-profile” investigations, according to a biography of Edman.
“He has been recognized within law enforcement and the United States Intelligence Community as a subject-matter expert on cyber investigations related to anonymous communication systems, such as Tor, and virtual currencies like Bitcoin,” notes his company biography for Berkley Research Group, where Edman works as director in New York. “As part of his work, he assembled and led an interdisciplinary team of researchers that developed a state-of-the-art network-investigative technique that was successfully deployed and provided critical intelligence in multiple high-profile law enforcement cyber investigations.”
Edman's résumé also includes a stint as a senior vulnerability engineer at Bloomberg L.P. in New York City, where he did penetration testing of the firm’s network. According to his biography, he also offers special expertise on subjects like Tor and Bitcoin.
Today, at Berkeley Research Group, Edman works next to former federal prosecutor Thomas Brown as well as three former FBI agents, all of whom worked on the Silk Road case directly with Edman: Thomas Kiernan, Ilhwan Yum, and Christopher Tarbell.
>>72347578
>> NOT realizing that Constitutional abuse allows focuses on cases with unfavorable facts to establish precedent that slowly erodes our freedoms and protections
but let's just use the Constitution as toilet paper because the guy is a pedophile.. it's not as if you should expect to have any rights when you need them to most
>>72347208
>>72347474
>>72347474
>>72348873
The Fifth Amendment, specifically.
>>72348539
>An order to violate his own privacy
an order to violate the 5th amendment right against self-incrimination
>>72347208
this seems like a fifith amendment violation. they are holding him for an excessively long time without trial and are trying to compel him to incriminate himself
He probably does have Child Porn. Fuck him.
>>72350496
>Torpedo
Clever
>>72350496
>the defense asked to see the source code—the human-readable code written by programmers that makes the software tick—behind Cornhusker. The defense wanted a look at the tool that pointed the finger at Cottom. The FBI said it lost the source code. Special Agent Smith insisted he never instructed anyone to destroy the code. The judge said the loss was “unfortunate” but “ultimately of little consequence.”
That isn't suspicious at all.
>>72350785
you cant look at cases like this in a void. if they are able to keep him locked up forever with no trial then it sets a really shitty precedent
>>72347521
is that why you're on 4chan and not using your real name and identity online everywhere?
>>72347521
>Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.
Everyone is guilty of something, it's only a matter of time until the law catches up to them to extort money.
just ban the internet from private use already
solves all this degenerate complication and reduces degeneracy while fixing people's social skills and undoing most of modern leftism's worst elements which are only enabled by the internet.
the internet is degenerate by nature, just fucking destroy it already.
>>72350496
keep postin dude, interesting stuff
>>72350785
I agree but the problem is the precedent set. Just because the guy deserves his balls cut off doesn't mean we should piss on the constitution. It's bigger than one pedo.
>>72351251
you also have MORE freedom without the internet
hell just by posting on 4chan you are giving up your real privacy anyway since you're using Google analytics to type captchas.
The moment you went online you already gave up your freedom. This was the plan from the beginning. Don't think you can have the world wide web and liberty anyway.
>>72351016
the founding fathers would frown on the whole idea of the internet.
They'd recognize that you're already giving up freedom for security of your own comfortable home and ability to be hooked to a screen for hours on end.
if you care about freedom GET OFF THE INTERNET.
The fact that you think the internet is "freedom" in the first place shows that you really care more about access to unlimited porn and entertainment than freedom anyway.
Otherwise you wouldn't have gone on a site like this one.
>>72351480
Most people from older times would freak out like Napoleon in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. I doubt most people bothered to dream about future technology advancements.
>>72351697
Exactly which is why "internet freedom" is a farce from the very inception of the internet.
The internet was never free, it was always a trap
>>72347320
>suspected
If someone is willing to jail themselves for 7 months instead of just proving that there isn't cp on the hard drive, they have cp.
Why is encryption still a problem for the government?
We're living in an age of quantum computers. We can crack just about any cryptosystem in polynomial time.
>>72347208
>You will never get hugged from behind by your latina girlfriend as you look down the sunny bay while surveying the servicing of your private yacht
Why bother working, when it's all going to taxes and maintenance? Why bother breathing, when there's no pretty lady to sweeten the air? Why bother at all.
>>72347208
Doesn't the US have a specific clause about not being forced to incriminate yourself or something? I'm pretty sure it was an amendment or something.
>in contempt of a court
Holding someone for civil contempt is written into our constitution (and violates absolutely no aspects of that constitution). He "technically" holds the keys to his own cell. It just involves him delivering evidence that he is illegally keeping to himself.
With that said, they can only hold him in contempt so long as he is actually capable of decrypting his hard drives...if something were to happen to them, they'd HAVE to let him go.
This is not comparable to wire tapping or massive NSA conspiracies. This is a local judge issuing a "warrant" for the defendant to "let the cops into his house." There is nothing unreasonable about such a search and seizure.
>all these 20-somethings getting triggered that it's illegal for them to fuck 15 year olds.
And it should stay that way. Date women your old age or kill yourselves.
>>72347208
Why not exonerate himself and give them the password?
Oh wait, probably because he's guilty lol
>>72350123
There is no legal precedent for that.
Legally yes it's valid though. Morally, of course not. That's why this is so disgusting, just because it's legal doesn't make it RIGHT, but that's a ridiculous analogy, don't use it again.
>>72350058
I2p?
>>72350785
you post on /pol/, you probably want to kill black people.
We should jail you immediately desu
>>72353791
>Everyone should live the way that I WANT! Why do people say that /pol/acks are control freaks?!
kys fampai
>>72347208
Guess he is required to incriminate himself.
>>72353621
>It just involves him delivering evidence that he is illegally keeping to himself.
No person shall be compelled to be a witness against himself?
>>72353931
In america, we have specific laws saying that it's illegal though.
>>72353791
shouldn't have said that, you just triggered all the social awkward spergs in this thread.
>>72353931
5th amendment and a shitload of case law make it clear that you can not be forced to testify in this country. You can be asked to testify about someone else and invoke a right to not incriminate yourself. If a judge issued such a warrant, it would basically immediately be shot down, and he would be in a world of trouble for so obviously overstepping his authority. Like end of career trouble, seriously.
In this case, the government is basically arguing that digital information is no different from physical goods/storage. You can be asked to testify to whether or not there is a dead body in your cellar, but you can refuse to answer. The government will just bust into your cellar and check. So the question is whether revealing the password is the same as being forced to let someone into your cellar or testifying against yourself.
>>72354554
What if the cellar is hidden, and they can't find or break into it? Do you have to tell them about it, where it is and how to get to it?
>>72353791
You have to realize that the vast majority of people on here acting like paedos are younger than the girls they are perving on.
>>72354191
Bearing witness against yourself and turning in evidence are not the same thing, and the constitution only protects you from an "unreasonable" search and seizure of such evidence. A judge arbitrates what is and isn't reasonable through warrants and subpoenas.
>>72349843
>teaching sex-ed to 8year olds is good, teaching abstinence is wrong
>13 yo girl having sex is wonderful a-ok empowered woman, don't slut shame
>video of it is FUCKING PEDOPHILE GO TO PRISON
>>72354554
>So the question is whether revealing the password is the same as being forced to let someone into your cellar or testifying against yourself.
The difference here is that you can break into someone's cellar regardless of what they say. With a password someone is being compelled to turn over the contents of their mind regardless of the fact that it may not even exist. The idea that someone could be jailed for legitimately forgetting a password to a drive that contains no illegal information is all you should need to see that it's blatantly unconstitutional.
>>72355036
Dont forget the part where even criminals want to kill paedos so there is a good chance you will die in prison.
>>72347578
He's mexican. You know, the ones Trump wants to shut out with a hugeass wall? The one you accuse him of racism?
>rekt
Well if he has nothing to hide....
And if he is innocent, sue them.
>>72356051
Triggered in 3. 2. 1-
>>72356119
>>72356051
i'm not triggered. i just think you're dumb
>>72356255
And whys that, because 'muh privacy, innocent until proven guilty. Fuck off americunt and obey your courts that shit over your rights. Fact he wont comply speaks volumes.
>>72355036
CP possession is a stupid crime, admittedly, and you're never going to find a politician who'll touch it with a 60-foot pole.
Funny thing, I actually watch this one ex-cop on Youtube. He made a video about it. One of the things you naturally want as a cop is having access to any and all evidence that you can legally get your hands on. CP is often evidence of a crime, and we've effectively violated our own constitution to make possession of such evidence illegal, because we find the subject matter to be particularly 'icky' (more so than fucking murdering someone in cold blood for some goofy reason). He expressed the sentiment that he'd rather have the weird fuck, who watched the shit and actually recognized a local kid, bring that picture or video down to the station willingly so he could potentially save a child's life.
>>72351637
Can't tell if you're just retarded or a government shill
>>72356575
Fucking redcoats want to get raped again I can see
>>72357041
We should just decriminalize pedophile murder. It's the only way forward
>>72357287
if it weren't for the rape-bed and the stockings that would just be a halloween costume
>>72347767
rip canada
>>72357287
>kitty in stockings
hnnnnnggg
>>72347208
he probably didnt want to share his rare pepes
>>72357139
Now now, what about having an image is bad?
The production?
Most of the shit you own is made by exploiting 3rd world children. Shut the fuck up, you ultra-liberal nutsack who gets off to banning other people from making choices THAT ONLY AFFECT THEM.
Child sex is the same. As long as it's consensual, why on God's Earth are people able to regulate each other's choices?
>>72357515
Solved the mystery
All these girls turn into fucking whores anyway, fuck cp who cares. Personally I find it gross but my point stands. Fucking whores.
>>72347208
relevant to this thread: https://forums.kali.org/showthread.php?28046-Project-beerbottle-Nuke-LUKS-with-a-duress-password&highlight=beerbottle
>>72347965
I'm a chef at Wendy's with a 15 inch cock and I make 150,000 a year
>>72353931
5th Amendment you pathetic sack of shit.
>>72347578
>when they came for the pedos, i didn't say anything because i was not a pedo.....
>>72358458
Fucking slut
>>72350703
>the fifth amendment
Opening up a file to comply with a warrant is logically no more self incrimination than opening up your house to comply with a search warrant.
If the fifth amendment worked the way you think it does then the very concept of a warrant would be self defeating.
>>72358727
except they cannot force you to open the house at gun point & threatening prison
They can however bust in on their own
Big difference
>>72347208
What is with this innocent until proven guilty thing?
>>72358458
You are not a good man.
Kill yourself.
>>72350440
In this case, he is being accused of a crime. If he wasn't guilty he'd have no reason to not prove it by unencrypting his hard drives. The reason he refuses to keep them encrypted is because he is guilty of either the crime he is being accused of or other crimes.
>>72358844
It's sad that you honestly think there is a difference between the two.
>>72358727
In this case it's like having a cellar. The cellar is open and seemingly empty. But the FEDS tell you: where is the hidden door? We know it's there, show it to us or else.
Or perhaps the cellar has an indestructible door. Problem is you destroyed/lost the keys the week before and those were the only keys.
>>72347521
>Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.
Okay then, give me the password to your computer and your e-mail. Let me look through all your hard drives, thumb drives, e-mails, files, pictures, facebook account, gmail account, yahoo acount, microsoft outlook, everything and anything that's on your computer and your phone, I want to look at it or I'll throw your ass in jail indefinitely until you let me.
>>72359499
ive seen mexicans that are ok with random stop and frisk anus/testicle inspections to prevent MUH DRUGS
statism is complete cuckeryat, and most people are at least passive statists
>>72358727
>>72358844
"nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself"
They have already seized the evidence. The HDD is in their custody. It is going anywhere.
What they want at this point is for him to be a witness for the prosecution and tell them how to read it.
They have it and every legal right to read it if they can, but they aren't supposed to be able to force him to help them do that.
>>72359124
>If he wasn't guilty he'd have no reason to not prove it by unencrypting his hard drives.
How naive can you be anon? There's no possible reason to NOT want the police to read your personal diaries other than being guilty of a crime?
Well perhaps, in the sense that the US code has grown to the point where the average citizen supposedly commits 3 crimes per day.
Not in any reasonable sense. Hell if I were in his place and that hard drive had nothing on it a grocery list I wouldn't give them the key. I'd make damn sure it was decrypted and read publicly with lots of witnesses and cameras going AFTER the case was thrown out though. CP is a nasty accusation.
>>72354040
And look at you.
Posting on /pol/...
>>72359291
Please explain to me how a hard-drive that actually physically exists is equivalent to a secret door who's existence cannot be objectively proven without the aid of the suspect.
How do I get a loli fleshlite?
>>72360291
they have some pretty weird shit from japan on j-list
>>72359885
Allowing access to a hard drive is no more serving witness against yourself than complying with a search warrant to your house is.
I honestly don't understand where you people get your harebrained legal theories from. Once again if the fifth amendment worked the way you think it does there would be no point in issuing warrants in the first place as person is under no obligation to comply.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUNvTDYJZSc
>>72360360
Will I get in trouble for trying to order a super tight pocket pussy senpai?
>>72360018
A newly formatted drive is indistinguishable from an encrypted one.
Any normal drive could POTENTIALLY have a hidden sector.
>>72347208
>/pol/ actually taking this faggots side.
Because it's totally fucking worth it to just sit in jail for 7 fucking months if you have nothing to hide, he won't decrypt it because he fucking knows there is CP on it.
Stupid fucking taco bender.
>>72347767
>starts dancing with a man at the end
Oh Trudeau.
>>72360488
i hope so
>>72360526
>If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear
Kill yourself.
>>72347208
This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't problem.
See, with his encryption key, they could also plant evidence on his hard drive and claim he had full knowledge of it, as it was also on the encrypted partition.
>>72360459
its slightly attractive, BUT we will eventually get sent to gulags just for looking at a child
2spooky4me
i dont even want to risk it
>>72360665
Why I am not a pedo I just want to fuck a tight hole.
>>72350549
I used to break into computers in the early 2000s. Trust me, If they're at his door then chances are they already have evidence he watched that sort of stuff. Withholding evidence is in of itself, a crime. So instead of pleading out... he'll hopefully get a few extra years tacked on for wasting their time.
I got no respect for Muslims and socially retarded neckbeards who can't get laid.
>>72355175
This
>>72360443
not sure if you're trolling or completely unfamiliar with the constitution. let me help.
Here's the requirements for a warrant.
Also the all writs act does not and cannot change those requirements.
>>72357515
kek
>>72347768
>Bushes.
>Lawns.
>Canada.
Trimming the snow and mowing the snow.
>>72347208
>suspected of possessing child pornography
>just happens to have two password-protected hard drives
totally innocent guise, he dindu nuffin, these two hard drives just contain his tax returns
>>72360443
>Allowing access to a hard drive is no more serving witness against yourself than complying with a search warrant to your house is.
Oh look, it's another retard that thinks encryption is a lock and your hard drive is a house.
I wonder who set their computers up, because it's clear they're too stupid to do it on their own.
Encryption is more like a needle in a haystack. They're saying that this man threw that needle into the haystack, so clearly he must know how to get it out.
If he does or doesn't isn't the point of his trial. So they cannot compel him to find that needle anyway.
>>72360526
Actually:
1. Might be a mistake and they got the wrong guy, he cannot in any way prove his innocence since he is tasked with the impossibility of showing something that isn't there (like a hidden sector on a encrypted drive).
2. He might have forgotten the password. Thereby having no possibility of decrypting it.
3. He might have lost/destroyed the key file (not the same as the encryption key) at an earlier date. Without the key file(s) opening the container is impossible even if he handed the correct password over.
4. Even someone complying with the investigators, handing everything over, could be fucked over by the encrypted HD having damaged sector that destroyed the sector needed to decrypt it.
>>72360500
Prove that the suspect has not already admitted the hard drives are encrypted rather than simply newly formatted.
>>72360699
The fucking pedoshit thinks if he just waits it out the police will stop caring, you can either decrypt the file and reveal yourself as a pedophile or sit in jail, yet he chooses to fucking sit in jail because he KNOWS there is CP within those drives and he KNOWS the police will find it if he decrypts it IF YOU SERIOUSLY CAN'T FIGURE THIS OUT ON YOUR OWN FUCKING KILL YOURSELF BRAINDEAD TWATS
>>72360985
have you tried fucking yourself fag?
also this guy should just kill himself
i bet he does have something in the drive, its unlikely that he is doing time just because of a delusion of freedom
the police state will not let him go, they have the drive and can withhold him forever on 'possible' crime
the drive is his, but the gov can also bring use a hydraulic ram to get into 'yuh private property'
he's gonna be in jail anyways, time to let go
>>72361113
I love how you assume I'm not familiar with the fourth amendment.
By all means show me your proof that this court order was issued without probable cause.
>>72361113
But Anon, this simply requires any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.
If they have suspicion that he's in possession of CP, beyond reasonable doubt, they have every right to search his HDD.
>>72361015
>I WAS A REAL HOT SHIT SKIDDIE BACK IN THE DAY
That's nice, but your allegory of a lock and a house makes zero sense and is in no way applicable to encryption.
They don't even know if the thing they want exists on his drive. Or that it's even encrypted. They're asking him to testify against himself in order to find it.
It's not the Client's fault that they can't read his hard drive.
>>72361514
>If they have suspicion
There's the key word, if they had this then they wouldn't need him to decrypt his hard drive.
>>72361469
Just your little sis
>>72361622
my lil sis is 40. nice try tho, pedofag
>>72347208
7 months > 20 years
>>72361705
lol you old fuck
>>72361705
>my lil sis is 40
Holy shit, how old are you and what the FUCK are you doing on 4chan?
Possible solution: prosecutors agree only the presence of CP will be verified, any other illegal files such as movies or music are not admissible. I wouldn't feel bad then if the cop was jailed indefinitely if he is guaranteed he will get in trouble only for CP, nothing else. Refusing to give the password at that point is practically admitting he has CP
>>72361705
Big surprise, the dumbass retard is a boomer.
>>72361911
Having cp shouldn't even be a crime
I know they don't have freedom of speech over there so it might be hard for you to grasp
>>72347208
The All Writs Act has nothing to do with compelling a defendant to do something. The 5th Amendment protects him this. Penn is going to get fucked in the ass if this guy gets any good lawyers.
Writs are only for those who CAN BE compelled (people not protected by the 5th amendment) to do something that they dont want to do in support of law enforcement. For example, the writ works in the FBI/Apple case, but does not work here.
>>72361316
Oh look it's another special snowflake tech faggot that thinks his computer is magically different than every other form of storage simply because "it's the current year bro!".
>>72361911
they can always renigger on stuff like that after the fact
FooFighter, why aren't you behind bars yet?
>>72361998
(You)
>>72362055
Yeah, so it would need to be something binding, maybe they could have a 3rd party do the verification then delete anything not CP
>>72361514
Re-read the 4th amendment please.
It permits warrants for searching places, and for seizing persons or things.
They searched the place, they seized the person and the things.
That is all the warrant entitles them to do.
It cannot entitle them to force him to testify as to the contents of the drive, not only because there is nothing in the 4th amendment to allow it, but also because the 5th amendment expressly forbids that outcome.
>>72362271
>actually thinks believing in Liberty is some kind of troll
Hahah wow you're actually this pathetic
>>72362237
People that don't break the law shouldn't go to jail, even people that do often shouldn't.
>>72361605
No, see, they might not have definite proof, but suspicion beyond reasonable doubt.
Even if I do not know what they are using to justify the warrant in this case, but take this example:
You're just beat to pulp in an alley way by some thug. The thug has your DNA all over him, and his blood is on his fists, clothes, etc. Upon leaving, he takes your wallet and phone. You contact the police, and through DNA he left on you, they identify him as previously charged. The police now have a SUSPICION (they do not have definite proof, the he beat you up and stole your wallet) beyond reasonable doubt, the he is the guy.
They get a warrant, still because it's suspicious beyond reasonable doubt, and use it to enter the thug's house. They find your wallet and phone, and he is sentenced for theft, assault, gross violence, and whatnot.
Ukraine bro got banned too?
Damn hotpocketeers
>>72347208
contempt of court is a charge and the 1789 All Writs Act was written by our founding fathers. very powerful law.
>>72361451
>I'm retarded
Everybody "knows" that there's something illegal in the partitions. The point is that what you "know" is very different from what you can prove.
If the prosecutor can't show that there's something illegal going on, then that's it. He should walk. Charge him with a real crime, or let him walk. Can't charge him with a crime, but "know" he commited one? Tough luck. Prove it. No, saying "I know it, he looks too smug" doesn't count as evidence in a court of law. So he should walk.
>>72347208
Can't you just claim that you have no idea how it got on there and that you don't know the password?
If you don't password-protect your computer anyone could put shit on your computer
>>72362394
No I think you need to read it again. If you have a vault inside your house, they would need the key for it, upon asking. If you refuse, and they cannot get into it, you'll get sentenced for the same shit as this guy.
They are not trying to force him to testify. They need access the his HDD, and he has locked it up, and refuses to unlock it.
>>72347521
is it evident beyond a reasonable doubt?
>nope.jpg
>>72353114
Stop being a Cuck and go and get one faggot, they're not going to come to you if you're sitting alone feeling sorry for yourself
The Supreme Court seriously needs to weigh in on this and figure out what needs to be done in cases like this since full disk encryption has never been easier and passwords never harder to crack
>>72350150
i thought a court ruled that IP addresses weren't definitive proof of identity. (i think it was a bit-torrent case.)
that being said, if IP addresses don't constitute identity and if the pedo has encrypted hard drives (which he doesn't have to decrypt; not only 5th amendment but also due process, since he would be assisting the state with his own prosecution), then there is no definitely proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) that the defendant is guilty.
the prosecution can only speculate.
>>72362700
>They are not trying to force him to testify.
They want to ask him a question about the contents of the hard drive and force him to answer it. That is forcing testimony.
>>72362700
They can access his HDD/vault perfectly fine, though. What they found happened to be random scribbles, but that really isn't his problem.
>>72362907
Are you autistic, or just new?
>>72363045
>The Supreme Court seriously needs to weigh in on this and figure out what needs to be done in cases like this
>weigh in on a guy refusing investigators to search a HDD, when they have a judicially sanctioned warrant.
No, they don't. Dude is halting the police from exercising their rights to search his HDD, when they have a warrant to do so.
>>72362439
>cops require you to put locks on your house that anyone can break into
>they swear only to use it justly and that it's for your own good
>criminals proceed to break in to steal your shit
cops just want to make encryption like a home security system
they're butthurt that they can't get access to whatever they want
>>72363045
the only way is reverse encryptin
you must upload your hard drive's contents every 5 months to avoid pre-crime
all encryption must also have a loophole so Big Brother can make sure there are no ungood files
>>72347965
Only the gutless put corrupt government before the rights of man.
>>72362700
If they want to compel him to surrender a key to a vault they first have to prove that such a key exists since compelling someone to produce an object that it is impossible to produce is effectively charging them with a crime that they can not defend against. Since a password only exists in someone's mind they can't prove that he actually knows it, thus making charging him with not surrendering the password a crime that can't be defended against.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENa_Xh-4n7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZNfZ1emQxo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ckrfR7cpQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk3p3QGVWh4
>>72347208
Cool so now the whole thing has to be thrown out because they violated his 5th amendment rights.
Then he gets to turn around and sue them for it.
Now he's free, and the state is gonna have to cut him a check for six figures.
All because they didn't want to collect the evidence properly.
>>72353008
because the various departments do not cooperate with each other.
why should the NSA waste its resources (budget) on a criminal investigation for the justice department?
>>72355003
you have no obligation to turn over evidence to the prosecution.
this is case law 101.
>>72347208
Still more free than any shithole with the balls to call itself a country on this planet
>>72360018
I'm just going to assume for a second you're not a retarded dick and genuinely asking.
The hard drive is the cellar, the hidden door is the data.
They're already in the basement as equivalent to them possessing the hard drive. They have plausible information suggesting there is a secret door, as they do that there is cp hidden on the hard drive.
However, they cannot find the hidden door among the perfectly smooth concrete just like they can't find cp because they can't read encrypted data.
Now their search warrant, based entirely on the suggestion (not proof) of the existence of these things, entitles them entry to the house/HDD and everything on it. If they are correct and these things exist, asking the suspect to show it to them is the definition of self-incrimination.
Ergo, 5th amendment.
>>72363676
Love how normies act like pedos are the demented ones when they do this shit
>those fucking comments
>>72349550
Thats the whole point of encryption. Because the court cannot see inside the drive except for data that is scrambled, there is no way they can consider it evidence. It has no physical parrallels or precidents in terms of property search.
Govt. is just assmad that they dont have physical power (legality isn't a factor) over free actions by human beings. whats to stop them from using CP accusations as an end-all-freedoms clause?
All the man has to do is state that the keys are unavailable to the court. They cannot force him, based on his first amendment, to express via writing, typing, or speaking, to provide the key.
>>72363299
Similar sort of thing happened here a couple of years back, but the kid was suspected of being an "ISIS sympathiser" even though they had literally zero evidence
>Raid his house and take his computer
>HDD is encrypted
>Dude is a super nerd
>Demand the password
>Refuses
>Try literally the worst psychological trick I've ever heard "If you don't give us the password, it'll be sent off, we'll get the information and destroy the HDD"
>"Do it"
>Send it off
>Can't decrypt it
>Dude gets 6 months for not assisting
>Rather than the 20+ years he would have gotten if he had actually been a terrorist or had ties to them
>The police count this as a "win"
The whole thing was fucking embarrassing.
>>72364479
Kid should've sued the fucks
Pretty badass
>>72354554
dude, seriously, you are under no obligation to turn anything over to the prosecution.
if what you say is valid, then you could jail a murder suspect for contempt of court if the murder weapon wasn't recovered....
>>72363783
Basically this.
Everyday he remains in holding, his check gets bigger.
>>72347208
If you encrypt a hard drive you should have an option to have a kill-switch password. If you input that one the encryption key gets scrambled irreversibly and the data is effectively gone.
>>72347208
Damn Mexicans
>>72364381
The "hidden door" is not the data, the "hidden door" is the encryption program. In order for your scenario to make sense the police would have to be prosecuting him for the crime of possessing an illegal hidden door and not for the contents concealed by the hidden door.
If posessing an encryption key were illegal and that was the crime he was charged with then yes demanding he reveal his encryption key would violate the fifth amendment, but that's not the case here.
>>72360443
>Allowing access to a hard drive is no more serving witness against yourself than complying with a search warrant to your house is.
alright, i'll bite.
if we go with your analogy, the police cannot FORCE YOU TO GIVE THEM A KEY TO YOUR HOUSE.
That's right, the police can break down your door, they can call a locksmith, but you're under no obligation to provide them with a key.
>>72365153
wut
Are you telling me people let the cops ruin perfectly good doors when they get warrants against them?
>>72360443
hey dipshit, you don't have to comply to a warrant. a warrant just means the state has the authority/permission (from a judge) to search or arrest. if the police had a warrant to search your car and you "lost" the keys, then it is up to the police to gain access to the vehicle. you are under no obligation to assist the police. if you are a defendant, the police and prosecution must make the case against you. you're under no obligation to assist them in making the case against you.
>>72347578
>suspected of possessing child pornography
>being held without charges
You retard
>>72347208
He should appeal, this is completely against his 4th amendment rights.
They can't force him to talk or self incriminate either, he has the right to remain silent and the 5th says he can't self incriminate himself
>>72364454
>It has no physical parrallels or precidents in terms of property search.
Because magic amirite?
>>72363388
If they had a tool that allowed them to "brute force" break into the drive they would be permitted by law to access the files.
However, much to the enjoyably severe asspains of a very wide swath of busybody toady 2-bit government bureaucrat shitstains the world over, there exists no such device, and it appears that no such device will be possible for a long time.
The governments of the world have long enjoyed having a hammer sufficiently bigger than any nail that has raised up against them (except other governments or the rare civil uprising). In this instance, hammers are useless so even the "fair, free" governments are showing their true colors as brutal, blind, and utterly destructive to human rights.
Not that I support anarchism, im not that idealistic. I just love seeing asshole bureaucrats stumped and acting the way they really are deep down: like shitstains.
>>72365401
he hasn't been charged with anything, hes literally being held on nothing but a suspicion without evidence
they have like 48 hours to release him or what ever before violating every constitutional liberty he has. this might actually be a landmark case if it goes this far
>>72361481
better to serve 20 years in a county lockup than 20 years in a state or federal prison.
>>72365340
>Open up or we break down this door, we have a warrant
>no
>*breaks down the door*
>>72347767
DUDE
>>72347208
Well if theres nothing illegal, why doesn't he just show how much of an ass the police department investigation unit is.
>He just doesn't want to go to big house.
>limbo forever.
>>72365401
do you know what "suspected" means you lardass?
>>72361511
doesn't matter if the court issued a warrant, the defendant is under no obligation to assist the state.
this is why defense lawyers always tell their clients, NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE. even if the police are just asking a few questions and you're really innocent. NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE. there's a video on youtube with a criminal attorney and a retired police officer, both telling a room of law students the same fucking thing. you are under no obligation to tell the police anything; you're under no obligation to assist the police in their investigation against you.
>>72365759
>Well if theres nothing illegal, why doesn't he just show how much of an ass the police department investigation unit is.
thats the thing, he doesn't have to, he's innocent until proven guilty
he's been given 7 months for what? not proving his innocence? Its a complete disregard for his rights. He should sue and go straight to the top
>>72365716
WEED
>>72365650
By your logic it should be perfectly legal to use deadly force to prevent police from accessing your property since you are under no legal obligation to cooperate with an official warrant and the police are using force to violate your property.
>>72352816
move to Europe you statist faggot
>>72361911
the burden is still on the state/prosecution to PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that the defendant POSSESSES cp.
the defendant is a piece of shit, but he's still entitled to his constitutional rights.
>>72365441
Because data is, physically, a collection of little electro-magnetically activated strips of metal that are imbued with meaning only when viewed with the proper tools. We're essentially arguing about the government trying to decypher a code on a chunk of metal and imprisoning someone because they wont tell them how to read it. Thats insanely unjust.
>>72366004
That's some serious reaching
Nowhere does anybody imply that
You do not have to co-operate with the police, however that does not give the the right to retaliate.
>>72366004
This is actually a thing
No-knock raids are a huge issue and extremely dangerous. If the owner of the property doesn't know who it is he's legally allowed to defend it. A cop was shot and killed in a no-knock raid recently who was killed by the owner of the house. The owner got all charges dropped
>>72365872
he can also work with the cops and calm their suspicions...
...dude...
They have evidence he viewed that sort of stuff. But they don't have evidence he distributed it. Just copying a file or moving it to a different hard-drive is considered distribution.
OP will have this guy's GoFundMe page to pay for a legal defense. He'll start an online campaign for him... #FreeDunduNothinNeckBeardz
>>72347872
Tío, who the fuck is she?
>>72366205
He doesn't have to
What the cops and the judge has done is completely illegal and unconstitutional.
He doesn't ever have to prove his innocence.
>>72347208
if it didn't have CP he would un encrypt it.
its CP.
>>72366205
>just give in to the tyranny!
Off yourself "dude"
>>72347521
might not be CP, he could just be a pirate, but the moment the feds find all his illegally downloaded movies, music, video games, etc, he's still going to jail AND getting sued by the IP holders.
>>72366327
Palindrome checked
>>72365872
Added: anything else not specific to the search and seizure will not be further incriminating.
>>72347208
>I don't recall the passwords
It's not contempt if they can't prove you're lying.
>>72360443
I'm just going to reinforce the fact that you're a stupid cunt by repeating that you DON'T have to comply with a search warrant.
>Police! Open the door!
>It's open.
>NO IT'S NOT!!
>Yes, it is you and you are already inside
>NO, WE'RE NOT!!!!
>Yes, you are.
>WHERE'S THE HIDDEN PASSAGE AND THE CORPSE?
>W-what?!
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>72353621
He forgot the password.
He doesn't hold any keys.
Prove him wrong.
>>72366004
nice try, but no. they have to prove he has the ability to decrypt the drive
otherwise what if he genuinely forgot his password? 7 months for forgetting a password? f.o.a.d. statist faggot
>>72366541
He doesn't even have to lie and pretend he forgot even if he genuinely did forget
he can simply plead the 5th and they can't force him to tell the passwords
>>72363388
dude, the warrant means that the police/prosecution have permission from the courts to search the hard drive.
the defendant is under no obligation to assist in his own prosecution. maybe things are different in denmark...
>>72366203
How did he not get gunned down?
>>72365124
>If posessing an encryption key were illegal and that was the crime he was charged with then yes demanding he reveal his encryption key would violate the fifth amendment, but that's not the case here.
So you went this far out of your way to say the extra step changes everything? If they suspect me of possessing cp which I buried in the woods somewhere, them forcing me to tell them where is a violation of the 5th amendment.
But under the same suspicion they are allowed to force me to explain to them how to read an encrypted map they believe shows the location?
I mean fuck all the reasons I might not want anyone to go there if there wasn't even any cp, I did just go through the trouble of encrypting a map. Do you really not think that is still the definition of self-incrimination?
>>72347208
He must have some serious dirt on a politician or some shit. Child porn is the government's go to charge to false imprisonment, discredit, or intimidate someone. It's really fucked up
>>72366647
http://theantimedia.org/man-shot-killed-police-officer-will-charged/
dunno but he wasn't charged
>>72366346
see
>>72366361
I mean if you pirate stuff are you going to just open up to the Feds? You can be sentenced to prison time and face lawsuits from IP holders for every single song you have downloaded that you don't have a proof of purchasing.
Now mind you if you pirate and the IP holders catch you you probably won't face that, IP holders would rather just sue you, but if you're already in the hand of the feds..
>>72366102
You remind me of those people who think 3D printed guns are some precedent annihilating game changer.
The government is not asking the defendant how to read his encryption, the defendant doesn't know how to read the encryption himself. The government is asking him for the passcode to activate the program that does know how to decrypt the encryption. Running a program is no more inherently incriminating than opening a door is. If the government can compel you to open a door, it can compel you to run a program.
>but the police can't compel you to open a door!
Then why is it legal to use tear-has to force suspected criminals out from a building they have locked themselves into?
>>72366327
You should read the Patriot Act and NDAA 2016.
>>72366004
O/U on "by your logic" statements never including actual logical inference?
>>72367049
it doesn't matter, the 4th and 5th trump all laws
>>72347208
hey think about it though
if he really did have CP on his drives then 7 months is actually an extremely low sentence comparatively, and he won't be on any sex offenders list.
small price to pay for getting away with CP I guess
>>72366685
This is the real reason shit like cp is illegal.
>>72367147
Tell that to the police state.
>>72367147
is nice ammendment
>>72361015
What does your post have to do with the post you linked to? The point in the post you linked to pointed out the difference between this case and the court order on Apple.
>>72367160
>7 months of your life wasted away
>small price for having pics and videos on a computer
Wew
>>72361015
Oh. And I forgot to get to this part.
>Withholding evidence is in of itself, a crime.
This is inaccurate if it is part of a constitutionally protected right such as 5A's protection from self-incrimination.
>>72359257
The cops can try and decrypt the hard drive.
They're legally allowed to.
However, you don't have to help the cops with their decryption efforts.
See, there's a difference.
>>72367049
>unconstitutional laws are binding.
I bet you also think the supreme court has the power to "interpret" the plain english of constitutional law.
>>72366203
That's incorrect.
The owner of the property is only allowed to use violence to defend his property if the no-knock warrant was not legally issued and the police failed to announce themselves.
Further more we're not talking about a no knock raid. We're taking about a scenario where the police have made themselves known and demanded compliance in line with their court issued warrant.
