![Donald_Trump_August_19,_2015_(cropped)[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/b8lcyTn.jpg "Donald_Trump_August_19,_2015_(cropped)[1].jpg")
Is Trump a Nationalist or a National Socialist and what is a National Socialist?
>>72085782
He's an actor.
>>72085782
He's a nationalist faggot
>>72085782
Berndolf Tralin
>>72085782
Trump is Trump. There is no way to define him other than Trump.
>>72085782
He's definitely a nationalist
but the funny and ironic thing is that Bernie is the National Socialist...
literally
>>72087580
national socialism is extreme right
bernie is not right of anything
I think he is more like a national capitalist?
Is that even a viable model for a country?
>>72087694
Lol no. It's extreme center fuckface
>>72087779
wrong
>>72085782
>Socialist
Negro, please. He's nationalist capitalist.
>>72087951
Lost
>>72085782
He's a Hillary plant.
>>72085782
he's running as a republican.
realistically, he's a moderate with a bit of nationalist flair. right leaning economic approach and a couple of left friendly social points of view.
he will most importantly be remembered as the 45th POTUS however.
>>72088426
Other way around.
>>72085782
Trump is a Nationalist, but NOT a socialist.
Nationalism is a "right wing" stance which posits that your nation is worth preserving and has value, or, is better than any other nation.
Socialism is a left wing ideology inextricably enmeshed with Marxism.
Socialism is the Third Stage of Marxian Revolution Theory
1: Radicalization of the Proletariat
2: Glorious Revolution and defeat of the Bourgeoisie (bullet to the head usually)
3: Dictatorship of the Proletariat through The Authoritarian Socialist State
4: De-radicalization of the Revolutionaries (bullet to the head usually)
5: "Re-Education" of the Proletariat into "Scientific Marxism"
6: ?????? (seriously, Marx et al never explain this part at all)
7: Magical Evolution of Authoritarian Socialist State into Utopian Stateless Communism (worker's paradise)
8: everyone gets a hot chick and a puppy.
and thats pretty much how Marxism purports to work.
needless to say, Marxism does NOT work, which is why The Authoritarian Socialist State simply becomes a new feudalistic state with The Party taking the place of The Aristocracy.
(see North Korea, Cuba, China, etc)
Marxism's Authroitatian Socialist State is the basis for Fascism (Italy), Nazism (Germany), Juche (NoKo), Bolshevism (Soviet Union), Maoism (China), Leninism (Cuba and many others), Trotskyism (zapatistas), Baathism (saddam hussein's Iraq, Assad's Syria, etc) Islamic Marxism (Iran and several other raghead dictatorships) etc.
Trump is a Right Wing Nationalist Republican (supporter of the ideals of The Republic as a form, not so much the Republican party) , not a Left Wing Authoritarian Socialist (eg mussolini, hitler, stalin, pol pot, etc)
>>72087694
Nope.
Socialism is Left Wing, not Right Wing.
stop lying.
>>72087918
Nope. I suggest you check every place that even remotely suggests where Nazism is on the political map. Top-center.
What is wrong with canadians?
>>72087580
It baffles me how few people realize this.
Nat soc is a form of tribalism. one party ,one goal and the rid of those who interfere ...some say its bad but fascism is a dictator with no connection with the people while nat soc is literally (the people/govt, social morality,spirituality) all in one
>>72088776
hitler's "socialism" didn't mean the socialist we think of now. His use of the word was to more to do with garnering the vote of the worker.
hitler couldn't be any more anti-commie, anti-union. half of Mein Kempf is him ripping socialism to shreds
>>72088962
it baffles me when people don't know the difference between national socialism (Nazism) and Socialism.
They are two VERY different things.
>>72085782
No idea how one could construe Trump as a national socialist. He's hardly even a nationalist. And I say this as a national socialist who voted for him
>>72088854
top 'centre' on a 4quadrant spectrum perhaps, but that doesn't mean National Socialist ideologies aren't as far-right as they come.
>>72085782
National Socialism can be tricky to explain, some have called it ethnocentric fascism, as in, fascism designed to benefit the people of the nation based on their natural race, and not allowing foreigners to claim citizenship or be equal to say, real Germans. Goebbels broke it down in detail as Nationalistic minded Socialism (to sum it up)
http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/haken32.htm
If you want to know about National Socialism, you should read the above link. Its not that long, it might take 10-15 mins.. but its very accurate, and it will let you understand why Trump is close to a National Socialist, and why thats actually a really.. really good thing.
It has nothing to do with putting jews in camps, although the German National Socialists identified jews as one of Germany's problems.
>>72088703
>Trump is a Nationalist, but NOT a socialist.
>I have a big heart, Republicans are going to probably come after for this one.. but I have a big heart, and I think Republicans have big hearts.. Were not going to have people dying on our streets. This is a disgrace. A national disgrace. - (paraphrased from his book which Ive read)
Hes both, and you shouldnt be afraid of it.
He is 100% capitalist.IMO, he is moderate nationalist who just plays on different social groups to get elected.Would personally call him centrist.
>>72088776
As if they're the same "socialism" just because it's the same word. By your logic hillary Clinton is a classical liberal because the word "liberal" is in there
>>72087580
>we should give free healthcare to illegal immigrants
Look guys he's totally a national socialist!
>>72089374
Oh, that had 2 parts I guess.
>>72089258
>>72087580
Here comes the part where we invite you to explain why you feel this way and you refuse to, right? Because no he fucking isn't
>>72089551
Are you fucking kidding me? You demand someone to back up his/her/xir statements with facts?
Tbh kys senpai
>>72085782
Trump is an "exceptionalist", as in, "America is exceptional among nations" and "I will be exceptional among leaders." in order to make America great again, so much winning, that you'll be tired of winning, etc.
>>72087580
Bernie is a marxist socialist and he is not nationalist, he divides the nation, he does not try to unite it.
White people, pay black people.
Thats not National Socialism.
>Americans! Love your country! Make it great Again!
That is Nationalism.
>>72087580
>they're called the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" so they're totally a democratic republic!
>>72089251
National socialism is a mix of left (socialism) and right policies (strong national identity) and is authoritarian. Therefore, it is in the MIDDLE and in the top. Why is it so hard to understand? Fucker.
>>72089797
>and is authoritarian
Western society today is more authoritarian than Germany under the National Socialists.
No one would be getting arrested for insulting the king of Turkey under Hitler, or would be thrown in prison for not making a cake...
>>72087580
>globalist
>nationalist
lmaoing@yourlife
>>72089913
How the fuck are either of those examples "nationalism?" That's the authoritarian left. Nationalism is not synonymous with totalitarianism and tyranny
>>72085782
He's a National conservative
>>72089797
>>72089913
Also, as I said above, its ethnocentric. You might find it authoritarian for the Germanic people to control you as a jew, in Germany.
Pic related. Those same people crying authoritarianism brag about hating christianity, and subverting our society in the same breath.
>Oh noes! Authoritarianism! We cant make porn for the sole reason that it corrupts society! Ebil white racists dont like the BBC!
Thats exactly what were missing in society, defense against degeneracy and control from abroad, control by foreign, non native interests.
Seriously though he's a populist paleo conservative
>>72085782
Trump is a moderate republican.
Why would you think he's a nazi?
>>72089797
they share ideologies in authoritarianism alone
>>72088426
>Be real estate mogul trying to do work in New York City
>Regulations, fees, and other corrupt, beaurocratic nonsense to just build a hotdog stand
>Purchase corrupt politician with donations because the system is rigged
>Run against same corrupt politician
>tfw ppl think you're a plant because you once bought your opponent
>>72089797
>right policies (strong national identity)
Btw this is also very wrong. Right wing literally means control, total left is "anarchy" and total right is "tyranny"
Right policies ARE AUTHORITARIANISM.
>>72089998
You must have quoted the wrong post because that wasnt about nationalism at all.
Try this one:
>>72089743
BTW, nationalism is about the people and the things they have to be proud of, not about the current laws of the land and the government.
To go against the government isnt even anti-nationalistic. It could be the epitome of nationalism, in some situations.
>Make America Great Again
Nationalism
>Were not going to let people die on our streets, this is a disgrace to our country
National Socialism.
>>72090233
whoops, wrong pic.
>>72089151
> dat "hitler hated duh commies" meme
ALL socialists hate communists.
communists want the Utopian Communism they were promised at stage 7, but the socialists are perfectly happy with stage 5
this is why marxism fails. authoritarian states dont willingly surrender their power and dissolve themselves. they re-trench and suppress anyone who tries to knock the wheels off The Party's gravy train.
ALL marxist revolutions stop dead at Socialism, and then suppress their communist factions.
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Nazism is a cheap knockoff of mussolini's fascism, which bypasses the Proletarian Revolution and instead implements slow incremental change to The Authroitarian Socialst State by exploiting the weaknesses of Capitalism (greed) and Democracy (stupidity)
once Mussolini/Hitler/Pol Pot/Stalin/Mao/Castro/Assad/Saddam/Kim gain the throne they fight to keep it, and real communism would take away all their toys.
Socialism is the rusty iron hook concealed within the juicy delicious bait of Marxism's Worker's Paradise"
the utopian fantasy is there to lure in idiots like you, so The Authoritarian Socialist State can put you to work building palaces and dachas for The Party Apparatchiks.
Marxism.
130 years fleecing the sheep, and still going strong!
> it baffles me...
yes, you are quite baffled.
Protip: Benito Mussolini (inventor of National Socialism, aka Fascism) was a lifelong marxist.
> Editor in chief of Avante, europes largest circulation Marxist newspaper, and the largest newspaper of any kind in Italy at the time
> Member of the first and second comintern
> Created Fascism when traditional Revolutionary Marxism just wouldnt sell in Italy
Italian Proles just wouldnt "Hurl Their Bodies At The Barricades" <tm> because they just didnt feel that oppressed, so Benito repackaged Marxism to appeal to the Italian Consumer just as Hitler, Mao Assad, Castro and Pol Pot would later.
>>72090233
wouldn't anarchism be total right? Since the more right you go the less government interference? total left being absolute communist dictatorship?
>>72089151
The connection isn't exactly baseless, look up Strasserism for example, it was the very socially and economically radical wing of the NSDAP that was purged during the Night of the Long Knives.
Wow lots of /r/sandersforpresident shills in here tonight. Mods still paying for your VPNs guys?
>>72090233
> total left is "anarchy" and total right is "tyranny"
Nigga literally what the fuck is this commie shit
>>72085782
He's a fucking neoliberal
>>72090306
No dude everyone knows Stalin was a pro-sex demigirl anarchofem
>>72085782
Nativist populist.
>>72090233
>were not going to let people die from lack of healthcare, they have rights as humans, we have to take care of them!
Not National Socialism.
>Some of our people are poorer than others, some are very wealthy. The wealthy should have their money taken and it given to the poor, to increase their general standard of living, because they deserve it and shouldnt be let to live at a lower standard than anyone else
Not National Socialism
>This old woman lost her husband in the war, its our duty to pay for her, because her family has given so much to the country
National Socialism.
>>72090306
>Since the more right you go the less government interference?
This is a modern mistake, the term right and left come from the french revolution, those for the king were right.. those for the people, the removal of the king and revolution, anarchy, were left.
Total left and total right are both disgusting and vile according to George Lincoln Rockwell. National Socialism sits at a moderate right.
Liberalism, he argues correctly, is actually right wing, because to enforce their policies.. they need to use force.
Liberitarianism is left wing.
>>72090298
I know we're on /pol/, but no im not a Nazi just someone trying to explain the difference between socialist and national socialist.
Hitler did hate communism and socialists, which is why they were the first ones sent to concentration camps. His entire campaign was based on ridding the Germanic people of the red terror, as his propagandists say.
>>72090350
>Nigga literally what the fuck is this commie shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1tUFx_StSo
"Nigga", that "communist shit" is from Commander Rockwell.
>>72090233
> authoritarianism is right wing!
so there are no left wing authoritarians?
none?
not lenin, not stalin, not mao, not pol pot, not castro, NOBODY?
in your crazy little fantasy world Left wing is like Mazeltov (good things!)
left wing leaders of note include
Robespierre (the OG left wing)
Stalin
Pol Pot
Mao (and his successors)
Castro (fidel y raoul)
Assad (papa and jr)
Kim Il Sung (and jong il and jong un)
Saddam Hussein
Ayatollah Khomeni
etc etc etc.
the Left Wing is radical revolutionary and destructive of traditional institutions and ideals.
the Right Wing is conservative and seeks to preserve traditional institutions and ideal.
economically, The Left is Collectivist, particularly Marxist Collectivism (which includes all forms of socialism, as well as the fluffy pink unicorn of Communism) ,
The Right is Capitalist,from the far extreme of Laissez Faire to closely regulated industries like modern Nuclear Power and Uranium Mining which are still profit based, owned by shareholders and operated by their boards, but under the watchful eye of regulators so achmed cant buy a nuclear bomb at costco.
>>72091325
The term has been newspeaked. The real meaning of right and left is derived from the french revolution.
It does not mean big, or small government.
>>72090542
> hitler hated commies
NO SHIT SHERLOCK
i just explained that.
commies want Marx's promised COMMUNISM, but Socialists (like hitler) already have everything they want so COMMUNISTS become the enemy.
communists are the useful idiots who help socialists gain power and are then exterminated when the proles are "de-radicalized"
marx intended for the communists to embrace socialism as a necessary but temporary evil until everyone was ready for the magical communist evolution
too bad humans arent perfect marxian drones who will surrender their gravy train just because it would be good for the plebs.
marx didnt take greed into account.
dont you even read marx?
>>72085782
he is a nationalist capitalist.
>>72090412
Shut up, leaf. Stop defending kike billionaires. They should have their money taken away. Your ideology is flawed.
>>72091325
Also, you conservacucks need to stop. Please read pic related in:
>>72090256
The media loves to throw this bullshit around about Trump not being a conservative. Guess what, only people who are traitors to the white race care about money as their primary concern. The people who dont want the status quo to change and things to just remain stable, because change can be bad for business.
William Luther Pierce, for example, regarded these people as contemptible lemmings who will need to be disposed of.
>>72086091
a little comma goes a long way kohai
>>72091623
You should have them hanged under UN anti-genocide laws, and their money given back to the people as compensation for their crimes against humanity.
How is that for a compromise.
>>72091540
Robespierre
THE ORIGINAL LEFT WINGER was an authoritarian, and would today be called a "socialist" because he advocated total govt control over the economy (the govt being Robespierre of course)
are you retarded?
are you trying to use newspeak to accuse me of using newspeak?
Robespierre actually sat on the left side of the aisle at the french assembly during the french revolution.
he WAS the left wing, before it was even called that.
i never even mentions the size of govt.
i spoke of tradition vs radicalism ( the literal definition of the right vs left paradigm) and economics which ties neatly into that paradigm
Right:
the OG aristocracy (capital) the church, the monarchy etc
Left:
radicalism, popular revolution among the plebs, overthrowing traditional institutions.
if you stop sniffing glue you might be able to follow these simple ideas.
>>72091842
He was regarded as a traitor/subvert pretty much, and although I dont know the entire history of him, I know its not a mere co-incidence pic related chose the name as his trip to shill with.
I tend to agree with George Lincoln Rockwell on his history research, as dictated in what is claimed to be his greatest speech ever (ha ha) more than some random idiot who cant even put a sentence together, let alone form a valid argument.
>Are you retarded?
Damage control, son.
>Right:
>the OG aristocracy (capital) the church, the monarchy etc
>Left:
>radicalism, popular revolution among the plebs, overthrowing traditional institutions.
Lol, are you retarded?
>popular revolution
Ehehem.
>>72090528
>those for the people, the removal of the king and revolution, anarchy, were left.
>those for the people
>the people
>removal of the king
>revolution
>anarchy
>anarchy
>anarchy
Now, again you:
>right
>the church, the monarchy etc
Now me.
>>72090528
>the term right and left come from the french revolution, those for the king were right
>those for the king were right
>for the king
>right
>the church, the monarchy etc
You need to stop coming here. We don't come here to break things down at autistic levels for people who dont even understand whats being said. Grab some memes, head back to plebbit.
>>72091555
ah I see now.
No i haven't read much Marx, just interested in the subject.
>>72092207
That guy is an autistic sperge who doesnt even know whats going on because hes raging so hard, pay no mind to him, it may actually be a jew trying to derail the thread.
Pic related describes marxism, also, dont forget to read "Those Damned Nazis" to understand the differences between marxist socialism and national socialism.
http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/haken32.htm
>>72091609
National capitalist* I wanted to say.
>>72085782
Is Trump a moon beam, or a lunar Lander?
>>72092196
your assertion:
> authoritarianism is exclusively "Right Wing"
ergo
> all authoritarians are "Right Wing"
however, just as a single notable example, Robespierre was the ORIGINAL "Left Wing" leader and authoritarianism and total state control were very much in his wheelhouse.
Conclusion:
you are retarded
Left Wing demagogues CLAIM to be "for the people", but invariably they are for themselves and are even more repressive than the evil establishment they seek to overturn.
often they dont so much overturn the evil establishment, but rather simply place it Under New Management, and dial up the repression to 11, as is the case with fascism/nazism
fascism and it's bastard child nazism are distinctly Left Wing Authoritarianism
fascism was born from marxism (the new standard in leftist thought) bred in authoritarianism, and schooled in violent repression of ANY who might reist it's power, whether they be communists, capitalists, classical liberals, libertarians, anarchists or simply other socialists who want to take over and install their own special snowflake brand of socialism.
that you fail to understand this is proof that you are retarded.
>>72093344
What is the polar opposite of anarchy?
>>72090233
>right wing is authoritarian
What? Right wing policies are usually small government, having responsibility and less "safety nets". You say right-wing libertarians are authoritarians? Fuck no. The exact opposite. You say soviet-style communism is liberal and free, because it is on the left? Again, no, the exact opposite.
God you are stupid
>>72087580
Hes not nationalist
>>72092383
listen up numbnuts.
the ONLY differences between fascist/nazi "national socialism" and classic marxist revolutionary socialism is the lack of a violent proletarian revolution.
leninists and other classic revolutionary marxists view marx's proletarian revolution as a non-optional required step on the path to the utopian communist worker's paradise, thus fascists are heretics.
bolshevism (lenin's implementation of The Marxist Authoritarian Socialist State) is indistinguishable in practice from the Fascist Authoritarian Socialist State
> The Party faithful are rewarded with sinecures and wealth
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
> Power and Privilege are hereditary
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
> Proles held in bondage at the whim of Party Apparatchiks
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
> strives for hegemony
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
> uses the power of The State to control the economy all the way down to small family farms
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
> pogrom against ethnic minorities
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
> particular venom towards the jews
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
> claims to be "democratic" but only one party/candidate is eligible for office
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
> Over The Top Authoritarianism:
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
> only way to emigrate out of The State is feet first
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
> repression of all dissent
Fascism: Check
Bolshevism: Check
i could go on, but it's clear to all who are not clinically retarded that the two are the same shit with different labels.
>>72093433
opposite of Anarchy = Order.
not authoritarianism, which is what you want to believe
voluntary co-operation defeats anarchy more surely than the heavy hand of the dictator.
>>72087694
>national socialism is extreme right
no
>>72094147
>voluntary co-operation
Considered anarchism by most anarchists from both sides.
>>72094400
> anarchy = voluntary co-operation
newspeak on the march!
anarchy is LITERALLY chaos
"anarchism" (as a political ideology) is a modern conceit
"anarchism" and it's myriad "anarcho-__________ism" subgenres are simply a re-branding of marxism in a vain attempt to clean the stink off of that tired old whore
marxism itself isnt even a political "ideology", it's not even a "theory", it barely qualifies as a "notion".
marxism exists solely as a polemic against capitalism
it provides no solutions, merely invective and attacks against the capitalist system.
>>72094016
>Strives for the good of the nation as opposed to the good of the ruling party
Fascism: No
Bolshevism: Check
>>72094147
Order requires authoritarianism you bum.
Simple Definition of authoritarian
: expecting or requiring people to obey rules or laws : not allowing personal freedom
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/authoritarianism
Youre so full of progressive communist horseshit propaganda you think authoritarian is a bad word.
>>72087580
>but the funny and ironic thing is that Bernie is the National Socialist...
>>72087694
>national socialism is extreme right
>>72088962
>It baffles me how few people realize this.
>>72088703
>Nationalism is a "right wing" stance which posits that your nation is worth preserving and has value, or, is better than any other nation.
>''right-wing''
Hello CIA.
Right wing =/= Nationalism
Right wing = Liberalism, conservatism, globalism, capitalism.
I see the rationalization for calling Trump a national socialist of sorts. The focus on what will benefit the workers and doing what is best for the state, etc. He strikes me as fascistic--in ways that I like--but I don't think our structure of government will allow for that, particularly.
>>72087580
what
no
>>72094735
Mussolini disagrees with you
mussolini argues that only things which empower and ennoble The State are good.
read Doctrine Of Fascism.
"Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal, will of man as a historic entity . It is opposed to classical liberalism which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the State became the expression of the conscience and will of the people."
~ Il Duce Himself
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm
WHOOPS!
>brainwashed modernists believe authority means oppression
Enjoy tying your country's arm behind its back while your government is subverted you stupid goys.
He's an American Nationalist i.e. He believes in working toward a better America but you don't need to be a specific class or skin color or belief to do so
>>72095250
Order is not dependent on authoritarianism
since you seem to love dictionaries so much and pretend they are the font of wisdom, lets examine these words through the prism of Webster.
> Anarchy:
1
a : absence of government
b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority
c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2
a : absence or denial of any authority or established order
b : absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker>
>Order:
(subject too long, but this is the contextual definition of Order within this discussion)
a : the state of peace, freedom from confused or unruly behavior, and respect for law or proper authority <promised to restore law and order>
ohh my! it would seem the bum be thee, not me.
nice anti-semitism as well, i love it when you frootloops dredge up the ugliest parts of your demented psychoses as if that wins an argument.
>>72095379
> Right wing = Liberalism, conservatism, globalism, capitalism.
nice one sven.
did you get that off the crackerjack box you munched while abdullah was boning your wife?
youre retarded.
>>72085782
National Socialist => 1930's German Conservative
>>72100376
Right-Wing => Conservatism, Capitalism
Left-Wing => Liberalism, Globalism
"Make America Great Again" => Nationalist
>>72091792
It's what I meant to say, no comma on purpose
