How much freedom do we really have?
>>72019846
As much as you have guaranteed.
>>72019846
False. Rights are things you have on dint of being a human. The government is legitimate only if it protects those rights.
Freedom and rights are things we guarantee all of ourselves to have.
I fucking hate retards who don't understand how "the state" works.
Look up the word inalienable
>>72019976
Only if everyone basically agrees to leave everyone else alone.
Which is unfortunately far from guaranteed.
In the end what rights you have are those that you can claim for yourself and then defend.
>>72020119
Look up the word "jackboot".
>>72019976
This, no right or freedom comes from government, they are only there to ensure those rights not be infringed.
That's the idea anyway, execution's gotten a bit messy.
>>72019976
>Human Rights
Nice meme. Considering that there is no such thing.
The only rights you truly have are the ones you're willing to kill for.
>>72019846
Isn't the idea that these rights are 'God-given' as in inate? A right is not given to you, privilege (like a drivers license) is conditionaly given to you.
Have I bit the bait?
>>72020099
>I fucking hate retards who don't understand how "the state" works.
That's because it doesnt work.
>>72019976
This.
>>72020264
How does the boot stomping on your face forever feel?
>>72020406
Not an argument.
>>72020351
It doesn't work perfect, it could work a lot better, but it still works pretty damn well.
And guess who's to blame for it not working better?
>>72019846
>that pic.
What are you implying?, of course somebody allows us to enjoy freedom, it's the state.
All hail statism.
I love our Bill of Rights and the rich history behind them all the way back to the Magna Carta and before. With that being said, God does not grant inalienable rights that government must then protect. Mao said it best: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun". People died to grant those rights to future generations and future generations stand by idly as those rights are slowly dissolved.
How much freedom do we really have? Only as much are we are willing to defend.
>>72020501
The Jews of course. Not that you are allowed to say that yourself my German friend.
>>72019846
Quite a bit compared to bongland and others but I fear that our leftism will soon bring a change to that
>>72020264
>>72020488
Hey bud, you still around?
Rights are innate, you can't grant or allow them, you can only supress and steal them. If only more of my compatriots could wrap their servile Slavic minds around this brilliant concept, maybe Russia could one day not be a shithole.
>>72019846
What are natural rights.
>http://www.nlnrac.org/american
>http://www.nlnrac.org/american/colonial-roots
>http://www.crf-usa.org/foundations-of-our-constitution/natural-rights.html
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights
Seemed to work pretty well for country #1, the United States of America. God bless.
>>72020627
The jews didn't vote for shitty politicians, they didn't reelect assholes who made shitty laws, they didn't sit at home watching politicians sell the country out, they didn't call for worse laws times and times again.
A decent people would've rejected the bullshit the jews threw at them, picked other business, picked other representatives, and moved on.
People will be held responsible for their governments. Like it or not.
>>72020831
>What are natural rights.
Not a thing. Nature doesn't grant you shit. Force exerted or threatened by people grants rights.
>>72020792
Not an argument again mister libertard
A right only exists if it's guaranteed by something, "Human/Natural" rights are not guaranteed by anything except some dumb people that believe in them, yet never actually protect said rights.
>>72021010
>Not an argument
I didn't present one
>>72020831
Whenever someone says rights are natural rights and that it's something inherent is a guaranteed retard. Rights cease to exist if the state makes it so. It's more of a real thing than some abstract religious concept.
>>72019846
"Freedom" and "rights" are imaginary social constructs. They disappear if you don't believe in them and don't act to defend them.
So are civilization, wealth, promises, marketing, God, and a whole lot of other things that people want to believe are real.
>>72021068
Not an argument.
>>72021137
Go back to your puddle of hopelessness mister nihlist.
>>72019846
As free as any guy who can go to prison for stabbing someone on the street so not free at all not even close to true freedom.
>amerishit think hes "free"
you literally have less freedoms then a nigger living in africa
every single part of your every day life is totally under control by your jew government
>>72019846
Well, the US constitution has a radically different approach. Look at the 2nd amendment, it guarantees a liberty which is already there, it only limits the degree in which the government can infringe upon it ("NOT"). Now, European constitutions, they are rags which arrogantly "grant" rights that should already be self-evident.
>>72019846
>Freedom and rights are things someone else allows you to have
Sam Colt and God are pretty based
>>72021316
Nope. I happen to think certain imaginary social constructs are worth fighting and even dying for, and will be defending them with whatever tools I have, up to and including shitposts on a Tibetian throat-singing lolita fan forum.
Just because something is imaginary doesn't mean it can't kill you, after all. Even if you manage to avoid letting your imagination guide you into a situation that leads to your death, other people can be guided by their imaginations to overwhelm you with numbers and kill you just as dead.
>>72021260
Nobody is trying to argue with you
>>72021505
>you literally have less freedoms then a nigger living in africa
Nice try.
>Pic unrelated
>>72021800
Humans are insane anon we get ourselves killed for imaginary concepts like family, honor, or love it is pointless we are programmed to be crazy apes.
>>72021876
African nogs have a very lax police force meaning they can do anything they want, why do you think there are negro gangs on steroids allover sub saharan Africa? Its basically what happens when you remove police from niggers. Its what niggers will do with complete freedom.
>>72021894
>imaginary concepts like family, honor, or love
>>72021995
People stay hide in fear of these gangs are not freedom, my little cute buddy.
>>72021805
Not an argument
>>72021800
So you think they are imaginary, but you still fight for them.
That's mighty odd.
>>72019976
And in the failure of government to secure or protect those rights in my stead, I am forced to cease payment for the services offered and secure/protect them myself.
>>72022100
>Not an argument
Why did you think it was?
>>72022162
Not an argument.
>>72022162
Not an argument.
Does /pol/ actually believe in rights? They're legal fictions, they don't exist in reality. If the rule of law collapsed, you'd have as much rights as the gazelle which gets its throat ripped out by the lion.
>>72019846
Bullshit.
Freedom and rights are something you secure for yourself through violence or the threat of violence.
>>72022006
All irrational concepts, all the humans that died for all that nonsense is a testament to how mad our species really is, so crazy we humans are that every single one of us makes up insane beliefs as a coping mechanism for the harshness of reality we call it religion.
>>72021894
Some of those imaginary things guide human behavior along the same unbreakable rules that govern the natural world, and even lead us to discover previously unknown laws that we make work for us in ways evolution literally could never let us develop through natural selection.
No animal performs open heart surgery yo save another animal's life, they only do so to end other animals' lives. No animal is able to travel to the moon and return alive. Only humans can do that, and we did it by using imaginary constructs to predict real laws of physics, and then used those laws of physics to do things nothing else on Earth can dream of.
>>72021894
I like how you tried calling humans insane apes for being programmed to believe certain concepts, and yet all the concepts you described as insane for humans to possess are actually the very concepts that elevate us above primates
>>72022310
>>72022261
not a country
>>72022466
Not an argument.
>>72019976
Bullshit you moralfag.
Your as a bad as socialists.
"I deserve rights because I'm human"
No one owes you shit.
If you dont want people to fuck with you, then you have to keep them from fucking with you.
That is reality
>>72022550
Not an argument
>>72022406
This guy knows
>>72019846
>someone else allows you to have
>what is the second amendment
You cannot depend on others to uphold your rights.
>>72022407
>All irrational concepts
By your logic, freedom, liberty, happiness, despair, and many other emotions are irrational logic. Are you want to be a machine or what?
Concepts make us human. Like it or not.
>>72019846
The right to life, liberty, and to obtain property are things I don't require the permission of anyone else to have. If you or anyone else doesn't like it, try and take them.
>>72022100
Only if you think you're somehow immune to the actions of other people. That wouldn't be the most stupidly self-destructive thing anyone has believed, but it's pretty close, and tops just about anything prefaced with any variant of the phrase "Hey, folks, hold my beer and watch this!"
>>72022550
>Heavy air defense
>Allies have no land forces, only air forces
Of course, we will lose. Did you forget the phrase, "Lose the battle but won the war"?
>>72021092
>>72020902
>Mad fags.
>Right cease to exist.
You're right I guess if I was born in a vacuum I don't have freedom of speech or freedom of religion. I guess I don't have the right to bear arm myself either if I was born in said vacuum devoid of a state.
Jesus you faggots are pathetically stupid. It's common sense really and not abstract at all.
>>72022832
You lost the whole Oil Campaign though. That is just the prime example of how bad the USAAF fugged it up.
>>72022764
Fair enough, though it's still peculiar.
>>72022996
Do people outside of Romania even know Romania took part in the war?
Whoops, that's not an argument is it
>>72022864
If you were born in a vacuum you'd be dead. So much for your right to live.
If you were born on earth, in the absence of a state, anyone could limit your freedom of speech or religion through force.
>>72022996
>You lost the whole Oil Campaign though.
Wikia said otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_Campaign_of_World_War_II
It was a hollow victory. Also, the goal of cripple Nazi Germany's economy failed. The battle itself, was success.
>>72022711
A certain set of genes makes us humans, mammals and birds have been observed to possess emotions you stupid fuck.
>>72023224
>Those losses
>The Oil Production kept going
>WE WON GUYS
No you didn't.
>>72022553
that's the point
the entire bill of rights is placing limitations on what the government can do
all rights are automatically assumed to be granted to each and every person at birth
if the government came up and said "can't have guns anymore m8 the children" and tried to take all guns, the people haven't had their rights infringed upon, but they do now have a rogue government to target
what do you people not get about that
>>72023291
>"Y-you lost a battle 70 years ago though!"
going on to win WWII and securing our place as a global superpower.
Is that an argument? I just don't know anymore.
>>72020310
Might makes right.
>>72023275
Man, you don't even what philosophy mean. You resort to insult in the end. I am not insulting you and try to have an conservation.
Genes make us human biologically. Without emotions and concepts of the world and society don't make us human but a machine. Fucking brainless.
>>72023291
Explain to me then. I am not genius. Seems you are as you can say it sarcastic.
>>72019846
Power is freedom.
Capitalism: Money = power
Communism and Fascism: Political position = power
In communism, political position is decided by nepotism
In Fascism, political position is decided by the ruler
Those with no merit will seek communism, those with no political power will seek fascism, those with no money will seek either.
>>72023684
Emotions are animalistic thats why animals possess them retard they make dont make us human at all only a certain set of genes makes us human and human is a biological term not a concept, what you are speaking of is sapience dumbass. All life is biological machinery with external power sources some moving some not.
>>72023684
You did not achieve the goal of your campaign, axis reached their goal in said campaign which was to defend the oil while yours was to destroy it.
To add to that you got significantly higher losses, even when out numbering and out gunning the Axis.
The only reason why Germany lost Romanian Oil Fields was because of the coup d'etat.
>>72023506
Boy how the fuck did you get so triggered?
>>72023906
>You did not achieve the goal of your campaign
>implying Nazi Germany is still around
not an argument
>>72020177
Look up the words Sol Lucent Omnibus
>>72023842
I always like to say that the balance is the key. The balance between emotion and logic make us human. Empathy, most animals don't have it. Rationality, all animals don't have it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Motivation_and_emotion
>>72022864
You don't have rights if they are taken away from you, it's very simple. Rights only exist as long as the state allows them to exist. If you lose the right to free speech tomorrow, you no longer have the right to free speech.
>>72023906
>It was a hollow victory. Also, the goal of cripple Nazi Germany's economy failed. The battle itself, was success.
Did you even read my post?
>>72022553
You don't "deserve" rights.
You alone are responsible for hashing out protection of those rights into the social contract you ascribe to with those that surround you, either by force or by mutual agreement.
If you fail to do so either by ignorance/laziness or by being overpowered, you will remain or fall into the (relatively normal) human condition of being oppressed.
>>72024231
Your rights cannot be taken away from you. Your rights can be violated.
>>72019846
None.
This is a slave world you stupid amerifat
>>72024343
>Your rights cannot be taken away from you.
That's true, I suppose. It's difficult to take something away that doesn't exist in the first place
>>72022553
There are natural rights. But rights dont mean shit if you dont have the might to protect yourself.
Hence the American 2nd Amendment. Think of the natural world where you can move wherever you want, or at least you can if you have the might to walk into any animals territory, beat them to death and continue trodding.
>>72024343
A guy who lives under a dictatorship and wants rights, doesn't mean he has rights.
The practical existence of rights is way more relevant to their existence than your desire for them to exist.
>>72019846
You can test it by ignoring or disregarding people who consider themselves authority figures and just do what you want inside of the letter of the law.
You will have shitloads of cops and angry buttfrustrated local labor socialist union types trying to chase you out of town and kill you.
It's pretty dope I honestly recommend it.
>How much freedom do we really have?
About 500 million firearms worth of it.
OP here.
MFW this thread after coming back to have lunch.
>>72024528
Rights are entirely immaterial. they cannot be desired or possessed. They are a part of your existence as an individual.
>>72024494
>Germany
>denying rights
That's so typical. No wonder Muslims love your country, you think just like them.
